Revisiting C14 START-UP CAM CHAIN RATTLE; inspired by viewer comments!

[@colfergusson4242]

Great content and clarification of some theory's 👍

[@ZAMsChannel]

Very interesting, thank you.

[@schzx14]

I agree with all you’ve said with the exception of the vvt being the reason behind the need for the hydraulics or even that the vvt causes some sort of dynamic necessitating hydraulic tensioner. The easiest point for me to make is that the zx14 has the same hydraulic tensioner but does not have vvt. I think more that the reason for the design is simply low probability of mechanical failure causing a loss of tension. It would take a loss of oil pressure at the actuator for this to happen. Not likely for that to happen. Now, ignoring the vvt, it may well be that they wanted a cushioning effect of hydraulic tensioning, especially considering your excellent proof that it is a total loss style actuator. Kudos for that. Kudos for all, in fact. I think you have solidly proven that the tensioner is not meant to act as a ratcheting style (hydraulic or not) and that in itself is huge. When I install my new manual tensioner, which I have not yet done, I will heed this thinking when making my final tension adjustment. And yes, I am now considering the fact that I will negate any cushioning that the hydraulic unit provides. Ugh. I just really really hate the rattling upon start up, especially when others are nearby. Haha. Thanks for the excellent video.

[@MotoRestoFL]

Ah. I didn't know that about the ZX14. Very interesting thoughts, thanks for the feedback. I hope I made myself clear, this is a working theory only. Cheers.

[@johnrowley4993]

Thanks for this Tom. I have a 2010 gen 2 with 60k miles. This applies to my bike 👍 I would like to see a live video but due to time difference it may not be practical. Shared btw

[@qivarebil2149]

Very valuable info! Thank You!

[@henryhawk978]

I got to get the carbs off the VFR750. Enjoyed the video, very nice job testing. RIDE SAFE OUT THERE!

[@dbird29]

Q&A would be worth a few test streams

[@MotoRestoFL]

So far, not enough interest so we'll just table that idea for awhile longer.

[@ipfreelynow]

Hi Tom, what are your thoughts on the manual tensioners to replace the ratchet style many of us use on our older bikes? It seem like I get a more precise adjustment and never hear any cam chain noise. Thanks for the videos.

[@MotoRestoFL]

That's done all the time on the KZ1000's and such. Can't speak much on any others, but I'd think it'd be doable. If somebody sells a manual tensioner for a particular engine, it's probably been done 10,000 times before otherwise, the market wouldn't be there to sell a manual tensioner.

[@bobhyde4793]

You had mentioned the wedge type tensioners at some point. I have that style on my Shadow vt750. Do you think barring the crank back and forth would remove chain slack better than just normal driving? Or do you believe that this could damage the tensioners?

[@MotoRestoFL]

Probably won’t make any difference because guaranteed, once in a while when the engine stops, it does so on a compression stroke and rolls backwards a bit. We’ve all heard engines do this. As such, it’s likely already done so before. Will it hurt anything? Unlikely for the same reason and condition. I have done that after a tensioner install when I can see the chain (before the head cover is installed like on an inline 4). If the tensioner is operating properly you shouldn’t have to pay any particular attention to it.

[@qillociqillo2011]

Possibly the cause is the viscosity of the oil. what do you think?

[@MotoRestoFL]

I run Rotella T4 which is a 15w-40, JASO MA/MA2 compliant for wet clutch, and that oil has a higher vitamins and minerals so to speak than other oils, for flat tappet cam applications (Zinc, etc)... Assuming a motorcycle specific 20-50 was used, you might see a slightly quicker pickup of pressure at cold start, and according to the service manual, you can run that from 0 degrees F up to 104+ degrees (ambient temp), however, I've tried it a long while ago, and it didn't change anything. The viscosity range is 10w-30 through 20w-50 depending upon the ambient temp environment, my point is, I don't think oil has anything to do with it. Certainly, really old oil might make it worse, something thinned out and dirty, but even then, I'm not sure. I started the bike up the other day just to run it as it's too flaming hot to ride that bike down here this time of year; hadn't run it for a couple months. Sounded like the engine was about to come apart, but just for a few seconds, built up pressure and ran fine without any noise. Ya got me as to why this is the case, except for the theories I present in this video, I don't know. Cheers.

[@lancebuerke]

Great info but you might consider an edited version for those of us with a short attention span. Your thought process and "thinking out loud" comments are entertaining and not far off from similar thoughts that go through my head. I did make it through the whole idea but the short version and summary is the same as your inital guidance. It's normal, don't worry about it. Of course you've provided a lot of support that conclusion for those that think they need it. Keep up the good work. Look forward to seeing more.

[@MotoRestoFL]

Kind of hard to do in this situation. I tried, but to illustrate the theory, the detail needs to be there. My channel is not for the ADD folks, there are many others out there which are. Cheers.

[@spacetruckin6555]

ATTENTION ALLEN MILLYARD: This is how to explain motorcycle stuff to people of average intelligence like myself. Great job Sir Thomas of Florida! My Sportster has a primary chain tensioner with both hot and cold tension specs. I love my Kawasaki's, but they are the quirkiest bikes of the big four in my opinion. Especially the fasteners.

[@colfergusson4242]

That's not what AM channel is about, it would take him hours to explain his work to the average, both are great channels.

[@schzx14]

Allen Millyard is in no need of defending by me but, come on man.

[@MotoRestoFL]

Allen shows mainly the highlights of stuff and is very competent at doing so. He shows the really important stuff and is light-years ahead of me in that department. Example: I would have never thought to source main or rod bearings from another manufacturer to solve a problem like he has on the Nemesis, let alone machine them to width. Cheers.

[@spacetruckin6555]

@@MotoRestoFL Boy that Nemesis is a pile of hot garbage!

[@henryhawk978]

Tom, what's your email?

[@MotoRestoFL]

[e-mail]. It's in the about section on the channel. Cheers.