Revisiting the Types: ESFJ

[@CasualCognition]

Thanks, Michael, I love how your Ni Ti conceptualizes the four axes. You always come up with brilliant ways of understanding the functions.

[@josevillalobos547]

INTJ & INFP Coffee I love your channel, you two are great 👍

[@phishcatt]

ESFJs energise me (entp) like no other type. They have the capability to get me up and excited to do whatever it is that they want, which is also something I wanted as well, but hadn't realised because I was waiting for the proper Fe mood for it. It's like they communicate with me on some level and understand I'm waiting for them to accommodate me, to create the Fe canvas so that I can splash paint all over it.

[@DeezyRYG]

Does anyone else watch these videos like...5x just to make all the connections and absorb all the info? 3rd time just now watching lol. Next time I’m taking notes.

[@HappytreeLuis]

When I first got into his videos, definitely yes.

[@sirbradfordofhousejones]

Currently on my 4th or 5th cycle! 😂

[@Mattslayerable]

Your explanation of inferior Ti in the ESFJ was very good...

[@caramelunicorn8023]

I have an esfj friend. He seems to struggle to make individual decisions, asking me several times what he is supposed to do. Also very friendly, expressive but also that Ti stubbornness.

[@itsthat_alexguy]

I LOVE this video! I don't know a ton of ESFJs, but every time I meet one, I can never tell if they're ESFJ or XNTP. Thanks Michael!

[@jhinthevirtuoso4886]

INTPs can be more direct, and are generally focused on logic.

[@Viking102938]

16:01 As an INTP, the funny thing is, I get it. Everybody has their version of "the truth", but to some people, their truth (the one each of us have) is more relevant. When I watch ESTJs gathered with each other around charts or ENTJs gathered around causes, I suspect I feel the same thing ESFJ does in regard to their social identity (equivalent for ESFJ to ISFP and INFP, respectively) -- I feel isolated from society, because each have us have a part of our brain associated with factual recall, but not everybody has the actual facts (some of us might think we know what the sky looks like when they've never left the cellar, but regardless each of us thinks we know what the sky looks like). In a twisted sense of irony, the selfish aspects of sorting out your own internal inconsistencies and dead ends costs you society -- every time you find out something new, you have to turn away, in spite of the bullying you get from the "extroverted thinkers" who don't maintain the purity of truth, but rather its relevancy to convenience and/or agendas for society. Society worships extroverted feelers for "filling in" at the expense of personal individuation, the same way it simultaneously worships me for the fruits of my honesty (solving things), but not for me. ESTJ gets respect by being a provider; ENTJ gets respect by continuously setting themselves apart (but in line with an organization). But to treat everybody as equal, to see everybody as just another iteration with minor alterations, doesn't make people feel individuated -- I suspect at this point it's a large part in why I struggle with relationships, because, at some point "personal passion" is supposed to take over, and you're supposed to be willing to become possessive or "abusive" the other person, which only ever ends up putting you in an abusive situation, yourself (you might be able to control your lover, but you can't control love). I've tried to love INFPs; the only committed relationship I was ever in for six years was with an INFP, but I can't make it work with them, because as much as they claim to love me for my "knightly armor", they're also obsessed with smearing it so I can get away from my "code of conduct" and just "feel human". Most fucked up thing is, she's not even wrong. The p in INTP is a misnomer -- INTPs are judgers and, more specifically, problem solvers associated with factual recall, something I never realized people used for me until I was both loved and betrayed by an INFP for it. It's not that I'm more gentle, it's that people like me when I solve problems for them, and when I'm not solving problems for them, they suddenly find all the ways of calling me selfish, or unethical, or whatever else they didn't see me as when I was still doing things for them -- it's not that I'm "gentle", it's that I'm more calm when other people are confusing "freaking the fuck out" with "doing anything about what you're freaking out about" (people don't care about me or what I believe in, just what I can do to progress what they want from me). In a way, I don't blame them (it's like feeding birds and not expecting them to come back), but there's a misconception about the type that, I think once understood, demonstrates why INTP and ESFJ are basically the reason the other exists -- without a "selfishly logical person", you can't afford to have somebody running around baking cookies for people all day (they're both judgers, fp2, right-brained thinkers that explain their reasoning, not debate it). Personality presents a dimorphism in the species that, when brought together, present the totality of necessary behavior required for the continuity of the species -- we could all have the same personality (as can be seen in many insect worlds), but when the presence of two or more opposing personality types in any species is observed, is must be assumed that, if the species has the advantage, then these two or more personality traits must, likewise, be assumed (speaking historically and never to the unknown and changing future) to have traits equally desirable for maintaining the existence of the species. I saved the ESFJ video for last, because I originally had the least interest in it, because the analytical type that will watch thousands of hours on Jungian psychology. Ironically, it's been one of the most informative about the least academic types. Thanks for the perspective.

[@LiteralCats]

By the grace of God!

[@amor2874]

Oh my gosh such clarity on the INFP vs INFJ. I have watched tons of comparison videos between the two types because I’m constantly typing between the two. The analogy of the INFJ having an opinion and bringing it to the mainstream vs the INFP integrating into society and searching for their opinion made it so clear. The ironic thing is that I found the answer on a video about my husband’s type... ESFJ 🤣

[@diyab1056]

I can't for the life of me get along with ESFJs but I have great ENFJ friends. ESFJs seem horrified by me and it's like we're speaking another language. ENFJs seem intrigued by me and aren't offended by my sometimes dark humor and sarcasm, even when it's directed at them. I appreciate people separating themselves from the herd so everything an ESFJ says causes my soul to die a little and my hope for humanity is lost. But then it's restored slightly when they offer up a darn good cookie.

[@DeezyRYG]

Lol as I read this, I could not help but laugh because as an ENFJ, I hear this very often from my friends about other ESFJs and I witness it too. But yeah, they do not seem to appreciate dark humor as much or anything seemingly inappropriate. Generally speaking of course.

[@aybmnn]

not specifying your type makes your comment useless

[@diyab1056]

I'm INTJ sir.

[@aybmnn]

You're conflictors then, so that explains it.

[@diyab1056]

Yes but we need all types for this world to function optimally.

[@rushaunj]

I remember requesting you to make this video a few months ago probably 3 here I am 2 months late and I thank you very deeply before I even get to enjoy this amazing video

[@Drecon84]

I love the insights and everything about this video. On the other hand, it's very abstract and high-concept. I'm not sure if most ESFJ's would be interested in the way you represent their type here, even though it seems spot-on.

[@512types]

I agree info is presented in a way to appeal to N's. But also you can't please everybody. Michael Pierce is a philosopher. I tried showing my ISFP girlfriend her video and as he was saying like "they want to see something deep but get distracted by pretty pictures" she was literally unable to process what he was saying because she was so distracted by the pretty pictures

[@Olivetree80]

Yeah, but maybe he's not trying to be accommodating, using his Fe in that sense, because he thinks in this instance it's important to be accurate (Ti) and present something in the way the views it (Ni)

[@lucashovart1561]

I've been typed esfj and I can assure you I do appreciate it a lot !!! :D It's insightfull and really helps me have a more conceptualized view on my behaviors which cannot be bad nor impossible to reach, even for a sensor i guess ^^ ahah

[@Suedetussy]

You‘re so right! 😁 But on the other hand, they‘re not really on the internet anyway. 😉 My boyfriend took a Myer Briggs test for me and fell asleep, because it bored him so much. Thanks to his agreeableness, he forced himself through it just for me - turned out he‘s an ESFJ, the perfect counterpart to me (INFJ).

[@Deanna_Marie_]

ESFJ and loved this. And don’t skip that begging part it was my favorite and talking about politics a bit.

[@jakobdavenport1772]

I love these ideas and the drawings!

[@chrisd.2831]

veeeeery good video! I loved the general introduction in the first 6 minutes! brilliant!

[@BrutalistJr]

far and away the loveliest and most endearing type. endlessly impressive and confounding. the spirit of the ESFJ is something of magic, like angels among men.

[@TeeTaan]

You're legendary, man

[@aurarus]

Please continue exploring the Society/ Individual thing you proposed in this video, it's honestly been blowing my mind the last couple of days. Makes so many things clear in my head. t. INTP

[@MichaelPiercePhilosophy]

I definitely plan to! Glad you found it useful!

[@christineschreiber5073]

I love the function axis part, it is so neat. Easy to understand for example why beta NF and delta NF do the opposite direction with exploring themselves and people. brilliant and very much appreciated.

[@sparxwil]

This is great. I think ESFJ's get a pretty hard time on the internet; I'm trying to be better understand their parenting style. I feel like the whole democratic style falls away when it comes to parenting for the ESFJ, to me the Si kicks into overdrive to serve the Fe and they become smothering and devoted to protecting their kids from hardship. Anyway, love the society vs individuality dichotomy, it makes a lot of sense.

[@davidzimmerman1354]

Great insights on explaining theoretical traits of two axes combined! You've of course done this with each axis, but helpful and interesting to consider characteristics and traits when two axes are combined! ;)

[@Valosken]

Definitely worth the wait. The clarification on functions is addictive. You seem to be slowly connecting things together more and more. Before, you'd connected each function axis' components by a principle - now you're actually connecting axes themselves by principle. Am I right in saying this? That Ni-Se and Te-Fi have a more 'individualist' feel, a sense of 'taking what one can from the apparent', and that Ne-Si and Ti-Fe have a more 'universal' feel (which you said), a sense of 'a need to compare what appears to something else and fit into a grand scheme'?

[@DeezyRYG]

As an ENFJ I would say that you entirely right in saying that from what I have seen in my own thought process and comparing to others of other types or other NFJs.

[@MichaelPiercePhilosophy]

Yep! That's it!

[@DGolden247]

Hey Michael, I've recently gone through your entire Revisiting series, attempting to really understand in depth how each type actually thinks (rather than the usual cookie cutter 'this is _ type, they are _, _, & _. They do _, _, _. Perfect careers for them to pursue are _, _, _,' etc.) and I've always loved how in depth you go into explaining the typology yet how clear you present it. Anyway, in this video I've noticed you didn't give your 'archetypal/metaphorical' image for ESFJ in your introduction but rather explained more of their functions. Although I realize it is much more important to have an understanding for how any type's functions work rather than to have an metaphorical image of them, I (as an INFP) tend to use the metaphorical image to help me remember the important aspects/qualities/parts of a type. I would be willing to ask you if you could provide an image for the ESFJ type, but it's most probable you may never see this comment. Therefore, I'll ask instead if you (and anyone else who comes across my comment) would agree or disagree with an image I have created (and have started to develop and polish)? I've taken everything you said in this video, along with further exploration from other sources, into account for my impression of the ESFJ. Here it is: The ESFJ is a survivor of a recently horrific disaster that has nearly destroyed the world (it could be a zombie apocalypse, nuclear war, alien invasion, etc). They, along with all their beloved who have also survived the immediate disaster, now search and scavenge the wastelands, barely surviving on what supplies they find. The ESFJ soon comes into contact with other surviving groups, however these groups are in conflict with each other. But the ESFJ is able to act successfully as a diplomat between these groups who eventually compromise and end (or at least limit) their power struggles. At this point, the ESFJ diplomat starts to form a new kind of government, with it's own laws which is based on the needs and input of the soon to be citizens, and soon everyone agrees to adhere to them. The diplomat then becomes the president (rather than king) of this newly founded nation state and for the rest of their life works towards meeting everyone's expectations while at the same time making sure the government and laws they leave behind are kept alive and well in good, loyal hands of the future. AND that's it! I hope this comes to help anyone just as it has come to help me. Have a good day!

[@Maya_Ruinz]

Id say this is dead on, I always think of balance and harmony first when in groups. I will adapt to the people around me, I literally was friends with everyone in my high school days . I could move between dozens of different cliques and I would do so quite often. I would hang out with the jocks one day and then hang with the "skaters" the next.

[@morningstarhomestead]

Oh my gosh - refusing to watch a TV show. True story 'dat!

[@PHYRBRND]

Michael I missed you sooo much !!! 😭😭😭

[@Moonlitwatersofaqua]

I'm an intp and my exboyfriend was an esfj. The part about esfj bending their values too much but then just getting weirdly stubborn is so frustratingly true. And probably worse so in my ex's case since the way he was raised is reminiscent of a religious cult. He would go along and do most anything I wanted to do even if he wasn't interested in the topic. He also would justify some of the most egregious bigotry. But wouldn't watch my little pony with me. Why? Toxic masculinity is the identity.

[@bimmerboy87]

I know you've already done one, but could you do another revisiting the types video for ENFP? It seems like you have developed and refined many of your concepts since you released the ENFP video and I would love to hear about them as applied to the ENFP.

[@tempest-tom9180]

16:45 Man this is so true...

[@DDCrp]

Wooooooo hoooo!!! Thanks, Michael!

[@Roogy88]

I have a question about your INFP/INFJ diagram, regarding the direction of the arrows. Do you consider perception to always be the starting point regardless of if it's the creative axis or the dominant axis? For example, you said the INFP starts out as being "societal" and over time they become more "individualistic." Would it not be the other way around? Their "individualistic" axis, though a judging axis, is their dominant process. Shouldn't that be considered their starting point? And when they take action, they use their creative axis, which is their societal axis. Shouldn't that be considered their ending point?

[@MichaelPiercePhilosophy]

That's a good point: I've actually thought a lot about that, and frankly I don't have a good answer. The INFP notion is something drawn directly from my concept of function axes temperaments, so the prediction about the INFP is really a prediction about NFPs and STJs generally. So when dealing with the entire temperament, I treat perception as occurring "before" judgement. But *why* I do that...still hammering that out. Conceptually it makes more sense to me, because one sees something before they make a judgement, but I also don't like the implications involved in having a sequential order to the processes. I think it is safer to treat them as a cycle, with perception turning into judgement and judgement into perception (an idea solidified for me by Juan Sandoval in his recent book "Cognitive Type"). With all that said, here might be the justification: the very nature of perception means that, even though it exists in a cycle with judgement with no clear beginning or end, yet whenever a new process begins, the cycle always begins with perception, much how a piston inside a car engine always begins with the explosion of gas, but after that it cycles between the two processes. Then again, I think all of that is really just the result of misunderstanding my own metaphor, or rather, taking it too far. The image of someone traveling from society to the mountains is a story with a beginning (in the city) and an end (in the mountains) -- so naturally this makes it sound like the INFP begins life as a conformist and ends as a nonconformist. But I actually think the metaphor represents an internal, continual process rather than a complete life story. So that insofar as perception is more of an initiation or catalyst, and judgement is a finalizer or finisher, then the INFP's internal story is the continual motion from seeing things in a universalist, social way but then ending the process with a highly contextual, personal decision. Hence, the INFP's preference of Fi does not mean they begin with Fi, but that they are most concerned with the Fi process when it does occur in this cycle. But there I am with doing the sequence thing again. Oh well. All in all, you are very right with the observation that said diagram places perception as always *before* in the sequence of processes. And that is something that could certainly be contended or else just fleshed out better.

[@LotN2]

There are many good things about the video but one particularly good thing is at@7:04. Oh god, if its true for me as an INTJ. If I would write about how much I have suffered in the hands of Fe people because they want me to conform into something I am not, I would write an entire book. Fe's, particularly E_FJ types (not so much INFJs/ISFJs in my experience), need to understand the following: Everyone has their own sense of morale. Yes, there is something as an objective truth and objective right/wrong but we humans must be humble towards it - we cannot enforce our perception of this "truth" on others. And "the collective" is not a good yard-stick by measuring this objective truth/objective right-and-wrong. I cannot stress this point enough for Fe types: If you end up in a "bad" collective, you will be conforming into their broken and evil ways and you will think that you are doing the right thing - bullying, group pressure, etc. This collective morale thinking can lead to prejudice, hatred of other cultures who are different from "the collective", oppression of people who are different, forcing everyone to be "the same", oppression and diminishing of the individual (which according to Jung leads to a whole lot of other bad symptoms, e.g. the rise of populist leaders).

[@micaelacerilla3264]

The intj in the bg is literally me in every esfj environment XD

[@megaman1808]

This video was really useful to me who is in the process of completely integrating my shadow into my experience of myself :) according to mbti Im an INTP

[@regalspork5434]

I like how you say to skip the cognitive function part, but that’s the main reason I’m listening to this video. Don’t underestimate yourself, your ideas are fantastic 👍

[@theoneonyoutube4925]

Hi, Mr. Pierce. I was wondering what your opinion is on people who score very high on both Ti and Fi. I was recently diagnosed as an INTP by a certified MBTI practitioner (and her reasoning for it makes a lot of sense), but I seem to be heavy in Fi as well as Ti. What are your thoughts? By the way, great video.

[@arlettasloan6453]

Crap. Back to INFJ. I'm going to fall over and weep.

[@MicrowavedBread]

So, unless I missed it (sorry), do you have a takeaway poetic image attached to the esfj (like you have with the other types)? Btw, I love your illustration of the axes and the dichotomy between the universalist and individualist modes.

[@bryantav6843]

Very well done

[@andrewcamarillo5728]

Hello, Michael what Enneagram tritype do you identify with? I know you have said that you identify with the 5 as a core type. I see similarities in your thinking to a 512 or 514. I identify as a 514 INTP. Thank you for continuing to make quality videos on personality theory. Your work is much appreciated.

[@amazinggraciegurl]

Steven Universe, my favorite ESFJ 🤩

[@LiteralCats]

Hey Michael! Thanks for another great video. I have a question, doesn't the stubborn nature of introverted thinking for esfjs mimic introverted feeling for esfps? Esp since you described the introverted thinking stubbornness tends to be without philosophical justification. How would you differentiate that? The intensity of the stubbornness by virtue of the cognitive function stack?

[@MichaelPiercePhilosophy]

I think it definitely would. The primary difference, however, is that the ESFP makes little to no pretense of having an ethical position or rational justification for their actions that is superior to others, whereas the ESFJ, even if they cannot come up with a good philosophical justification, will still stand as if they had one, and are in a position that is, by universal standards, superior or right. The ESFP, on the other hand, finds their position superior only for they themselves, and assume everyone else thinks the same thing regarding their own positions. In short, the ESFJ will seek to justify themselves in rational, universal terms, in terms that are fair and equal for everyone, and will be embarrassed if they cannot do this for themselves. But the ESFP doesn't care, and actually seeks to have a position that is theirs and theirs alone, preferring the chill air of mountain individuality, as it were.

[@HodsBroo]

I see so much enfj (myself) in esfj but it's almost the reverse process of caring for people

[@MarkyMark2177]

“...By which all human beings agree to and can live together in peace and prosperity “. So in other words-get ready for it...DOGMA! Yes, they can be dogmatic.

[@loppy999]

Another great video Michael and your novel description of the function axes (and interactions) are terrific..think you're onto something quite original here and hope you pursue this angle further. As an older INTP in a relationship with an ESFJ (duals in Socionics) your description made perfect sense. I feel that ESFJs are one of the most misunderstood types particularly by (under-developed) INTPs! My own experience has been fascinating and though our personal interests and goals are very different, the psychological compatibility, and in particular unintentional and constant (but not excessive) 'triggering' of each other's tertiary functions is very real (Ne humour/ meanderings and Si practicality). And nothing works better in keeping her inferior Ti-induced self-criticism at bay than dominant Ti calm and analysis. Keep up the great work!

[@anansi4849]

Ayn Rand and Karl Marx both being INTJs is super interesting lol. Could you perhaps explain how Marx and Rand arrived to opposite theories/beliefs with the same functions? Right now it seems kinda unfair to paint INTJs in this selfish, almost “anti-others” light considering Marx exists.

[@MichaelPiercePhilosophy]

It is interesting. I think I may have painted the INTJ as more "anti-others" than I intended, simply because I was viewing it more from the ESFJ perspective, which certainly finds them to be that way. Ayn Rand's philosophy is a very clear expression of her INTJ personality, but with Marx it is less clear, in part because it is harder to wrap the mind around what exactly he was saying in the first place. But as I understand it, Marx was just as aggressive and assertive as Ayn Rand in making his points, which were at bottom very cutting social critiques rooted in philosophical considerations (just like Rand). Rand was by no means heartless; if anything, she was motivated in her ferocity by an internal concern for her fellows, whom she believed should be freed from webs of irrelevant social obligations and allowed to flourish or fail according to their merit. Marx is the same way, actually, positing his vision of communism as a society wherein men's merits are directly recognized and rewarded/punished, rather than being exploited by middle men (the bourgeoisie). So although they came to two apparently different conclusions, looked at from another angle one finds that they actually came to the same conclusions: they are both fighting for a visionary concept of "free, active man", someone actually assisted by society in accomplishing his goals, rather than weighed down by it. That's a rough picture of it anyway.

[@anansi4849]

Michael Pierce Michael Pierce I. LOVE. IT! Thank you sooo much for helping me see the parallel. I think I was confused a bit because I’m both a leftist who loves Marx and an ENFP. When I saw Ayn Rand being chosen as the representative of the Fi-Te axis I was like, “But...she’s against everything I’m for! Not all of us Fi-Te users are like that :,(“ lol But I fully understand what you mean now ^^

[@ashwinp5518]

I'm a little late to this, but as I see it, the theories of Rand and Marx represent 2 different aspects of Fi. Rand wanted to protect individuality while Marx wanted to protect those who couldn't protect themselves. As incompatible as their respective ideologies seem, I find myself relating to both.

[@Hari-kx2er]

@@anansi4849 First of all, what are you for exactly? It is hardest to be an individualist in a Marxist State. Examples include Russia and China. Since you profess to be an ENFP, I believe you value individualism. So that comes down to this. You are an individualist who value a totalitarian ideology (that masquerades as egalitarian) like Marxism. Quite an irony. In my opinion it is easiest to be a leftist in a non leftist nation so that you can always look at the ideology of the left via rose coloured glasses. You also get the freedom to be non authoritarian and still escape getting punished.

[@friendlyanomaly6109]

@@MichaelPiercePhilosophy Ayn Rand is like the INTJ equivalent to the "Reality (as you observe it) isn't real, there's nothing that exists outside of your mind, we're all in a matrix" philosophy that you get from INTPs sometimes. Both seem to be extreme rejections of their 7th function. It's almost as if they believed that the concepts associated with them were mere tricks that are played on the mind. Fe is said to subordinate itself into the object of it's attention, hence a sense of disassociation with ones own personal feelings, where as with Fi, there's no disconnect between ones own personal feelings. If Fe is ignored entirely and Fi is acknowledged, I can see how an "Objectivist" would be willing to deny the "virtues" of altruism.

[@matrat6648]

8:08 Mc hammer would be proud

[@theicedfin8725]

by d GRACE of GOD

[@splnrt..50]

13:53 You mean bears right?

[@robertaugustaswilliams9399]

1. Great vids 2. When will your video on esfp be out?

[@MichaelPiercePhilosophy]

Thanks! Workin' on the ESFP right now :)

[@PanzonVilla]

Just for clarification, are you interpreting the process of the INFP taking many points of view into account when trying to form their own, as them being “integrated into society, in a sense”? Also, judging from your reference to him in this video, you think Jordan Peterson is INTJ, right?

[@MichaelPiercePhilosophy]

That's the notion about INFPs, yeah. I'm planning to explore it more in future videos. The INFP "begins" in society insofar as perception, as I see it now, seems to be the initiator of psychic process, while judgement is the finisher. So the INFP's initial point in a given psychic process is one of universality (democratic integration into society), and they continually move from that to the final point of contextuality (distancing from society, individualization, acting according to one's specific context). For instance, Kierkegaard in "Fear and Trembling* talks about the individual moving from the ethical (i.e. the universal) to the religious (i.e. making one's own particularity into its own universal for oneself). And this is portrayed by Abraham leaving his tent and going up to Mount Moriah. As for Jordan Peterson, I actually believe that he is ENFJ or INFJ, but that is more of a hunch than anything. What I believe for sure is that he is strongly on the Se/Ni axis, with more preference for Ni.

[@СергейПак-б8и]

Could you please tell me who is CelebrityTypes? He/she referred a lot in your videos. I d like to see his/her content. Thanks.

[@MichaelPiercePhilosophy]

They changed their name a while back --- www.idrlabs.com/

[@bmanfman9781]

Lmao intp master race