224: Volume vs. Intensity - Mesocycle Progression in Hypertrophy Part 1

[@caioloureiro360]

Great discussion, Jared's points are hard to argue with

[@joetalarico3894]

Underrated comment right here lmao

[@IntellectualMuscle]

Undeniably...

[@workoutunleashed]

Jared is the bodyguard ready to jump in and fark someone up if they step outta line!

[@brejkaz]

That´s my takeaway as well and Steve also had some very interesting opinions

[@ReviveStronger]

xD That's a recurrent comment! Thanks for listening though! - Coach Jess

[@serpentking8503]

Everyone is still missing the most important question - if Eric’s hair style is a) a weak attempt at Wolverine, b) a new hair style choice which he will instantly regret upon review of the video, c) he woke up 60 seconds before the podcast started. Regardless, amazing discussion!

[@gtr0321994]

C

[@cushin13]

@@ianmcstruthers9937 @truong nguyen Why does it matter? You're leaving aside everything he says, and you focus on that? keep your opinions to yourself.

[@ReviveStronger]

Irrelevantly funny.. Thanks for listening :D - Coach Jess

[@chip2th]

baaaahhhhhh hayahah haha

[@arwm05]

@@cushin13 you're kidding, right? LOL 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@nickcustodi592]

Instant like without even watching more than two minutes.

[@christianevans2956]

Took me 5

[@chronometa]

Took me 45 mins

[@jackepperson1805]

Same I’m so excited

[@antdgar]

You are part of the problem

[@IntellectualMuscle]

Pretty much!

[@emiljorgensen5340]

"infinite war is the most ambitious crossover of all time" Revive stronger: hold my protein shake

[@ReviveStronger]

HAHAHA I love that! - Coach Jess

[@bobbyknight9709]

Lol.

[@grizzlymanverneteil4443]

We need Lyle Mcdonald here so he can argue with everyone about everything even if they agree with him

[@ReviveStronger]

😂😂😂 This is wildly accurate! - Coach Jess

[@iRickcast1]

Everyone in the comments picking sides because of their own personal experience running some types of progressions and deciding what is best, when most almost for sure ran them incorrectly in the first place. It would be wise to know the detailed intricacies of what is being discussed before making a statement about it, and not just saying "I ran this method and didn't like it and felt better on this other one so this person is wrong". That just come off as extremely ignorant. The things discussed in this podcast are meant to make you think about very specific details. Even among everyone in this podcast they are in MOSTLY the same page, and only see different when it comes to very "nit-picky" details about certain topics. In fact, even they would agree that no one that participated in this debate is completely right or wrong. It is merely a continuous rationale between two different views that might or might not be wrong to get closer to what they think is MOST LIKELY to be correct in the moment with the current data, but in all reality, further research is needed to be able to say who really is "correct". Picking sides or saying this is right or wrong is not a scientifically logical way to go about watching these, specially when 99.9% of the ones commenting don't have Masters/PhDs and decades of research in the field.

[@vjuicebox0292]

Underrated comment

[@joetalarico3894]

Thanos totally agree. I was trying to explain that in my comment but people seem to be very anti mike in here and i don’t get why. I’m huge fans of both. Mike has his logic and reasons for doing it. It shouldn’t be discounted simply because “excess volume = always bad “

[@ekiboi5746]

100% this

[@pascalflor]

This was a fantastic comment. For me personally, all this discussion did was overthinking my biases and reconsider how I'm doing things. It's a great thing if you have to face your preconceptions and want to go back to rethink your own approach. All of them have compelling arguments for & against certain methods and it doesn't matter who was presenting data and ideas but what it is that was presented. I know for a fact that discussions like these make me a better coach and athlete

[@iRickcast1]

@@pascalflor Beautifully said, Pascal. I 100% agree. Big fan of yours and the rest to the Revive Stronger Team. Cheers.

[@abrahamlinkin2414]

I like how they actually let each other flesh out their points and don't always interrupt each other despite disagreeing.

[@ReviveStronger]

That's the right way to have those discussions in my opinion and they're all very intelligent people! Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@chronometa]

Steve looks like he should be in some tarantino film with those glasses 😋

[@AnAverageDude]

A Tarantino porn film

[@BrodieGiesbrecht]

Those spectacles were on point!

[@ReviveStronger]

The pornstache-blue light blockers combo is a hit! - Coach Jess

[@MikeBarbell]

This is marvel dc crossover level

[@oxxzkkr]

Even better than

[@IntellectualMuscle]

Yeah but who wins tho...

[@MikeBarbell]

Intellectual-Muscle we do

[@ReviveStronger]

I love the reference :D Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@ssdabel]

Really enjoyed Brians contribution here - very balanced and calm

[@MDub808]

SSD Abel we need to get you on here so you can add your two cents on this. 😉🤙

[@Soccasteve]

Abel has spoken!

[@tjrugbymuscle]

It’s a (potentially unfortunate) fact that in a debate (and in life) personality, charisma etc can really stand out and persuade/convince people when making conclusions. Brian really tried to stick to the facts/views to clarify his stance

[@gregorcee4473]

I personally thought Jared said it best. Very level headed

[@ReviveStronger]

He definitely is, I enjoyed it too, brings some calm in the storm! Thanks for listening Abel! - Coach Jess

[@ConorDuck]

This is maybe the most serious I've ever seen Eric 😂 great discussion tho.

[@ReviveStronger]

He definitely was very serious haha. Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@customisedfitness]

There are so many variables in exercise performance especially from a recovery perspective that I think we can only use data as a base gauge not the be all end all. As Greg Nuckols put it, go ahead and start doing what science says optimal but ultimately you will have to alter every program you do to your individual needs to be able to make progress in the long term whether strength or hypertrophy is the goal! People have vastly different recovery abilities due to lifestyles, age, sleep pattern etc. Remember, scientific data tells you averages, you as an individual could be on the lower or upper end from that.

[@cyberpumpdotcom]

This. There are just a ton of life variables that enter into the equation. This in itself varies wildly from on person to another.

[@customisedfitness]

@@cyberpumpdotcom So many variables indeed that for while now I have started to question the validity & objectivity of excersise science. It is so unlike any other scientific field where you can be objective and the key element recovery being so vastly different from person to person. I`m sincerely hoping this will not end being a racket, I really am.

[@ReviveStronger]

Absolutely! Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@rockyevans1584]

@@customisedfitness exercise science is debunking all of the many rackets that are currently ongoing in fitness. You must be young, data on this subject has never been more objectively collected and made available. Its trending in the right direction for sure

[@kane6529]

Dr. Mikes the GOAT and we need to have a hair intervention with Eric for the love of god! Dr. Mike could also help him in this area as well 😅 as someone that has diffusive balding I feel his pain

[@neznam1337]

I've been following Mike for a while, but I'm with Eric and Brian on this one

[@ReviveStronger]

That's cool, everything can be discussed and everyone can make their own opinion, that's the goal :) Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@dbzrules95]

I'm still listening so I don't know whether this is addressed at the end. It seems like there is a fundamental disagreement about how important increasing the stimulus from week to week throughout a mesocycle is. I think increasing the stimulus from week to week isn't an unreasonable position at all, I do it with my clients. You can increase "effective volume" without increasing sets. I don't want to misrepresent Mikes position but I believe he advocates Increasing RPE/decreasing RIR from week to week? This by itself would lead to an increase in "effective volume" without actually increasing sets. It seems like Eric and Brian lean more towards that being enough of a stimulus, whereas Mike and Jared believe in many cases it isn't.

[@sumdudenorris106]

Yes for most. Not that it isn't enough stimulus, but that more stimulus could be better.

[@jackepperson1805]

dbzrules95 you literally summed up the video lol

[@TypicallyUniqueOfficial]

Mike reccomends increasing both RIR/RPE as well as volume when necessary. He's a big believer in auto-regulation and deloading. So in a typical mesocycle he will have his clients train at a minimum effective volume for a lower RPE and lower volume (could be starting at 10-12 sets per bodypart per week). Depending on your response, you would increase weight/reps/sets. If your are completing sets at the lower end of the rep range, you would want to shoot for more reps next week (getting closer to true RPE 10). If you are performing more reps than anticipated (you barely struggle to hit a RPE 7 and did more reps than prescribed) you would most likely want to add another set and weight. Adding sets is a big thing, and it's ok if eventually you add too many to over reach...you will eventually deload and your body will super compensate greater than what your body could have done if you kept a lower volume. That's the whole key to it, the deload weeks and regression in volume is a key contributer in hypertrophy due to the muscle desensitizing to the stimulus then ramping back up to it again which they will be more sensitive to the stimulus and breaking past the previous stall.

[@BrainsandGainsPodcast]

Awesome stuff guys :) looking forward to part 2

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks Dave :)

[@gregorcee4473]

Is Jared Mike’s bodyguard?

[@ianmcstruthers9937]

Teddy bear

[@IntellectualMuscle]

I believe he's around Mike for the AoE intellectual gainz....

[@McMeatBag]

Mike was trying to create his own Mini-Me, but the experiment went wrong and he ended up with a Massive-Me

[@ReviveStronger]

That sounds accurate xD - Coach Jess

[@Benjaqu]

I couldn't express my gratitude enough. Thank you so much for your continuous effort in hosting these discussions. Can't wait for the next one.

[@ReviveStronger]

Our pleasure! Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@bergmannhoff138]

After the podcast... Jared: Err so Mike, I'm confused - do I need to take more gear or not? Mike: Not now beef dollop, adults are talking

[@ReviveStronger]

I don't know if you meant this in a funny friendly way but I'll choose to laugh at it hahaha - Coach Jess

[@bergmannhoff138]

@@ReviveStronger Very tongue in cheek ;)

[@philclarke3660]

I agree with a lot of Eric's concerns that Mike's approach might be misinterpreted or misapplied by some people. Personally having run the RP style for so long now and so many mesocycles, even following the recommended procedures for when to add sets based on soreness/pumps, I have always felt worse making more liberal increases, especially as the RP templates will often add 2 sets a week for a muscle group based on a rating. Even when I am still making progress, it becomes harder to gauge progress across all sets the higher they go. I no longer try to go from MEV-MRV at all, e.g 10-20 sets, but instead go from maybe 10-16, and then stay there until "MRV comes down to me" via performance decreases. I don't feel like shit at much and it seems more sustainable

[@neznam1337]

I do literally the same. Never actually push to MRV, never have. Ever since I started training by RP's philosophies (3 years ago), I kept my volume between 8-16 sets at most. I think this way I'm atleast keeping myself "safer" from injuries, and still getting good progress

[@bradleysmith8630]

I've also been thinking about this, another reason is that it improves your ratio of time spent doing productive work to deloading

[@Markus-mt7pr]

His MRV concept is flawed to begin with since nobody exists in a vacuum and different factors like stress, sleep ect. will change your theoretical MRV on a daily basis.

[@dr.christle]

Would this be more of a limitation of the RP templates?

[@vieri864]

It sounds to me like your problem might have been gauging your mrv and now you are actually progressing like intended. I know I was doing way more than I could handle and have significantly lowered my mrvs below what I previously thought they were.

[@JJvideoman]

All round great discussion. The relationship between Eric and Mike in particular is one of the healthiest things for this community.

[@ReviveStronger]

Agreed. Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@tiagocampos9824]

It's becoming a dream of mine, to have a discussion where the other person does not interrupt me after 3 seconds in any topic. Everybody has something to teach and nothing to learn.

[@ReviveStronger]

This was a very polite discussion with lots of room for reflection :) Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@rockyevans1584]

Interesting, so you crave to educate others on your view for longer? Putting aside how pretentious that sounds in an out of context comment, id advise to wait patiently after being interrupted until the person completely finishes their urgent contribution. Wait a solid second after to ensure theyre done, briefly but politely address their point if it was unrelated, then gently steer the convo back where you had been interrupted. Sentence finishers often respond to such a clear message and return the favor, and theres the odd chance theyre cutting you off with a relevant point. If that doesnt work, understand thats either a person not worth interacting with or someone with some life issues going on.

[@berrysliwa1]

What i think is quite important here is the proximity to failure. 18 sets with 4-3 RIR feel completely different than 18 sets 2-0 RIR. One is like hmm ok maybe i can add 1-2 sets and the other is "i dont want to live any more"

[@ReviveStronger]

"I don't want to live anymore" is an accurate description of my overreaching weeks xD - Coach Jess

[@Genome320]

Eric, Mike, and Steve in the same video = win

[@ReviveStronger]

What about Brian and Jared huh? - Coach Jess

[@littlesparrowloves]

Can’t wait for part 2! I hope we get to hear from Jarad in the next part. He’s super smart and always makes excellent points. He’s too polite though and needs to butt in more!!

[@ReviveStronger]

Part two is out Saturday here on KZbin :) I don't think Jared is staying quiet out of politeness though! Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@utubebrowseupload]

WAWwww this is great! I just hate that its broken up in multiple parts so i have to sit infront of my computer tripping for my next fix of this great discussion. Thanks guys, looking forward to hearing the continuation of this ciscussion! :D

[@pascalf.3737]

You can sign up for the membersite to already listen to the second part ;)

[@JmgStrength]

I’ve actually found more hypertrophy adaptations training in the way Dr. Mike Israetel suggests. I’ve suffered a QL injury last year, and basically had no choice, but to increase volume using exercises that didn’t bother my injury. I would accumulate volume rather than keep my sets static, and behold! My legs are my best body part now! All the while during that time, I’ve kept my sets for upper body the same because I would see more strength gains from that. Went from benching 80s to 110s for sets of 5 reps (using dynamic double progression) and I don’t really see any hypertrophy benefits just strength. I thought a performance increase alone would get me bigger, but that didn’t seem to be the case from my anecdotal experience.

[@MeZoRH]

I love Dr.Mike but I do agree a lot with Eric. Having followed RP templates for years and the ramping volume kills me. I instead now only go from 10-16 sets per week.

[@mizakzee]

Is it possible that you're MRV is 16 sets? Or is that not what you mean?

[@mrcommandoNL]

Seems like you are just doing what Mike is saying, i.e. increasing volume over the course of weeks

[@Lotusdreams]

I don't get that. If you follow the RP templates AND the instructions you autoregulate to your say 10 to 16 sets anyway? Unless you are just pressing 1 every single session it won't escalate the volume as fast. I neither can handle that much sets for some muscle groups but I never ran into your problem except obviously for the last 1 or 2 weeks as is intended to overreach. This sounds like you arent using the templates right more so than a fundamental issue

[@jamesdashper1316]

You’re literally doing what he preaches it’s just your MRV is 16 or you’re not optimising sleep nutrition for recovery etc

[@TheNietzschian]

So you used the templates incorrectly for years? Wtf

[@hunter_pauley]

I’ve now run the 5 day RP Strength for about 1.5 years now. Amazing gainz in strength and hyper trophy. However, even with how I was wearing workouts, I got up to 6-7 sets and 10-20 reps on most exercises. I survived one meso cycle and then realized I was losing my pumps in the next meso. I realized my volume, especially with that many sets was way too high. I’m running a modified version of RP now and maxing sets at 4-5 on most exercises and once again I feel like my recovery is back as well as my pumps. One thing I’m super glad about running RP and following RP in general is that volume landmarks vary so much person to person. Training is highly individualized and you can always learn more about yourself with each meso and training program you run!

[@ReviveStronger]

Yes, absolutely. Understanding the individual process, and having fun figuring this out, is the way to go in my opinion! Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@AdamMc192]

I’m looking forward to part 2, I really don’t think they’ve got anywhere on this thus far other than highlighting their own views.

[@ReviveStronger]

Hold on to your seat, coming this week :D - Coach Jess

[@ArkanSubotic]

Coming back to this after lockdown finishes in Canada

[@ReviveStronger]

Hope it's over soon! Thanks for watching! - Coach Jess

[@J90JAM]

I feel like this is the title for a lot of the podcasts. It was summed up by Mike in a similar debate - "Volume is King, Intensity is Queen." You need a certain amount of both, it's all intertwined.

[@ReviveStronger]

I like that! Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@caioloureiro360]

Nice podcast, i share the same opinion as Brian in regards to the lack of correlation between increasing sets and having more pumps, i think it is only related to exercise selection and rest intervals.

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for sharing and listening! - Coach Jess

[@vieri864]

For me it boils down to Dr. Mike has his way of progressing volume and with sound metrics it's the best we got so far. I know he wouldn't say it's perfect but it's better than just blindly increasing volume because more is better. Until someone comes up with a better way Dr. Mike is the gold standard.

[@ReviveStronger]

It's AN effective way, but I wouldn't be biased into thinking it's THE way. But it definitely works :) Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@WtbgoldBlogspot]

This is the third debate I've seen with Mike where the other person says "they're making progress, why would you increase the workload?" Baffling. The whole point is to optimize. These very smart people are so in the weeds that they think of growth as binomial; if someone's growing changes are bad, rather than a curve where there's a peak maximum growth rate.

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for listening! - Pascal

[@MeZoRH]

I’ve been waiting for another round table like this

[@ReviveStronger]

I hope you enjoyed it then, part two this Saturday :) - Coach Jess

[@abrahamlinkin2414]

52:00 Mike makes a very great clarification here that can't be understated.

[@ReviveStronger]

What do you mean "can't be understand"? :) - Coach Jess

[@rockyevans1584]

@@ReviveStronger oops, looks like your brain is broken. Its a tragedy that cant be understated, although you wont mistake that for a mistake as understand works there as well. Great podcast!

[@or8t]

30 seconds in "together on a couch" Jarad, *eyebrows*, second later Mike *eyebrows"*completely independently, no eye contact with eachother. 😂😂😂 Had to pause. Stop laughing, then write this comment haha.

[@ReviveStronger]

I had the same reaction xD - Coach Jess

[@alexanderbonde6331]

Is Eric becoming Mike Tuchscherer?

[@facundozapata7364]

God I hope so

[@ReviveStronger]

I think that's just a bad hair day xD - Coach Jess

[@Eplemos4Life]

Mike is on another level on hypertrophy training.

[@ReviveStronger]

He's... passionnate xD Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@cushin13]

Mike is contradicting himself. In his novice/intermediate template the rating system adds sets for you if you don't have overlaping soreness and your performance is STABLE i.e platuing but not regressing. He says platuing through the meso is fine since you're accumulating fatigue, and now he says if you're platuing you're at your MRV. Also, he used to say MRV is when you're performance drops. Now he's saying its when you no longer have performance gains. Lastly, the "MEV" in his templates are 10 DIRECT sets per week, with the exception of arms. By week 2, if you do not have overlaping soreness and your performance does not decline, the template adds FIVE new sets/ muscle group.

[@fdhfghfgrhrrth]

a performance gain could just be an added set while still matching last weeks volume which i think you are confusing a matched performance for for a plateau. you could hit the same reps on your bench for chest and just add extra reps to your flys and youd still have a performance increase. mrv is when you cant even match the weight/reps/sets for that muscle group and that is your performance decrease

[@ReviveStronger]

Thank you for this, I think that's my stance too as a response! Thanks for listening guys! - Coach Jess

[@rockyevans1584]

I think maybe your comprehension has plateaued. I havent used the template but ive heard a lot of dr mike and he has never advocated to add even 2 sets to any muscle group per week, at least to my knowledge. He seems to be the biggest advocate for adding sets through a meso for sure, but i cant see adding more than 5 sets in a whole meso

[@cushin13]

@@rockyevans1584 He does advocate adding 2 or more sets if you don't get great "pumps or have overlapping soreness". That's all over KZbin. Better yet, go check out the actual RP training template, that could add as much as 6 sets per muscle/week. Name calling also shows how mature you are. Grow up.

[@rockyevans1584]

@@cushin13 i didnt call you any names man, and i have no idea where you would find anything recommending such an unreasonable amount of volume. You must be taking things out of context. He always makes it clear that you should start on the low end of volume in case thats where you respond the best, and to add slowly over time to avoid adding unnecessary volume. You seem to be ignoring these fundamentals of his recommendations. Use some common sense, and post links to support your claims as i binge watch israetel, nippard, nuckols and schoenfeld on the regular and i think youre making shit up or misunderstanding

[@TheGracken]

As I expected, Jared didn't say anything

[@ReviveStronger]

He nodded a lot though. xD - Coach Jess

[@Danny-yk3vd]

Wow wow wow!!! Couldn’t be more excited to listen to this.... lets goooo!!! 😀😀😀💪🏻

[@ReviveStronger]

Hope you liked it! Part 2 is out this Saturday :D - Coach Jess

[@granitcurri902]

Mike’s argument 52:25 second was lit

[@clunied]

Jared needs to stop butting in and let other people speak

[@ConorDuck]

He does not shut up!

[@deejayspillz]

Seriously tho. He stole the show

[@ReviveStronger]

So rude of him.

[@Lynx33PL]

My experience with this comment 30 minutes into the interview: "Ha! I get it!".

[@waalex11]

Good topic on how to have a decent idea of if you're progressing properly.

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for watching! - Coach Jess

[@mrbartuss1]

I haven't even listened to it yet, but I'm sure it would be awesome!

[@ReviveStronger]

Hope you enjoyed it indeed! - Coach Jess

[@mrbartuss1]

Revive Stronger Of course!

[@marco.pereira]

Great podcast discussing debates on volume/hypertrophy/recovery. Very educational. Thank you. 🙏

[@ReviveStronger]

You're very welcome, thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@Tom_North]

Love Dr. Mike but he should really let other people finish before responding.

[@ReviveStronger]

Let's call it passion xD - Coach Jess

[@Braw92]

Great talk, awaiting part 2. It seems to me that Mike draws conclusions that aren't entirely supported regarding the role of soreness and pumps, so i'm in full agreement with Eric and Brian. Not only is the research not there, but anecdotally the variance of pumps and soreness based on the individual and exercise selection (among other factors), makes it quite vague as a metric to guide volume progression.

[@pablotapia8237]

I dont understand why people keep addressing pump and volume as the sole factor on RP periodization, those are like the last things to take into consideration, after checking performance is good and progressing, THEN you default to soreness and pumps

[@Braw92]

@@pablotapia8237 Everyone agrees that performance is the most important factor. The disagreement lies in whether pump and soreness is predictive of hypertrophic outcomes and should be taken into account at all.

[@jordanholcombe9153]

Great podcast. As an intermediate lifter my sets usually climb from about 8-12 up to 14-16 for most muscle groups. However Sometimes I end up having to deloading sooner than I would like. I am usually also lowering RIR from week to week via adding reps and sometimes slight weight increases. Sometimes the combination of these methods of progression makes my systemic MRV sneak up a little faster than I would like. This time around I am adding sets more slowly.

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for sharing! And I hope this helped a bit, stay tuned for the second part :) - Coach Jess

[@TypicallyUniqueOfficial]

Im a volume freak. My body recovers dummy fast, so I do more sets than people reccomend (20+). I would be putting myself in a bad place if I was training in a lower volume (anything less than 18). I'm never sore training in a moderate or lower volume threshold. The thing that pisses me off is how closed minded people are to their potential. I always thought I had bad genetics before I did high volume (the opposite), so it's hard to listen to people defending the shit out of low-moderate volume training. This is why I respect Mike, because he teaches you to listen to your body and how to find that volume threshold for you personally.

[@deejayspillz]

Curious, how do you break those sets up? What’s your frequency?

[@Lotusdreams]

I second this. Especially because his system works with different volumes for all body parts instead of that mystical ceiling for all of them. My back and chest need tremendous volume, more than the average, but my legs entirely behave as everyone else: Give them high volume and I shit the bed. Both of these can be adjusted for in his model and I think that is the most important point when giving out recommendations based on what we know currently: How to make individual adaptations

[@zackzeigler5854]

Agreed. My chest can only take like 15 sets per week max and I’m dead. My delts can take an abusurd amount of volume and I’m never sore. Low volume would definitely not work for delts but is perfect for my chest

[@TypicallyUniqueOfficial]

@@deejayspillz I do: push/legs/off/pull/push/legs/pull. 6 times a week. My training career is as follows: •Starting Strength •Madcow 5x5 (Bill Starr 5x5 variant) •Layne Norton PHAT •5/3/1 OG (Boring but big accessory) •Ogus 5/3/1 After doing 5/3/1 I moved to a Push/Pull/Leg split and it evolved into what I do now (listed above). ***Note, I barely gained damn near 3 lbs of muscle on starting strength, I followed it to a t. So much for newbie gains... My best gains are from doing Layne Norton's PHAT and the Push/Leg/Pull split above. I respect Eric Helms, he has the body to show he knows what he's talking about too, however, his book is in a lot of way trash in my personal opinion when it comes to the volume section. Most everyone's recommendation of volume is trash because they ignore that all of us respond different to volume and they don't ever recognize that "hey maybe you should keep increasing volume". They say if you increase strength, keep doing what you're doing. Fuck no, keep increasing volume. Studies show that high levels of cortisol in a training session usually leads to high level of muscle gain later in a study, and the study they reference in this very video of the group doing 40+sets had better gains in hypertrophy than the 27 set group. It HAS to make you guys think.

[@Lotusdreams]

@@TypicallyUniqueOfficial Similar for me in terms of progression with the programs but I ended at a BB volume Monster that destroyed me in some muscles but grew me like a newbie in others. Thats why I also kept high volume prog. bc it worked, just with a little more finesse. This kind of development makes these concepts even more valuable to learn

[@ryano460]

Not meant to bash Steve, but what's up with those Tarantino glasses? Great podcast !

[@ReviveStronger]

Ain't nobody talking shit about blue light blockers haha! Thanks for listening. - Coach Jess

[@milliewilde109]

Enjoyed hearing a different perspective on some of Mike's principles. Got the cogs turning. Interestingly, Mike's principles worked super well for me when we didn't have gyms so I only had fairly light dumbells, but with heavier weights at the gym, and therefore less sets of 20-30+ and more in the 8-15 rep range, I find fatigue accumulates way more quickly and therefore set additions have to be much less liberal. That's just my experience though.

[@ReviveStronger]

And that's fair enough, again, it's very individual, and if you found what works for you that's great! Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@cv0669]

This is fantastic - really enjoy the discussion

[@ReviveStronger]

Thank you for listening :D - Coach Jess

[@chip2th]

I think if you leave reps in the tank, then yes you will need more volume to stimulate all the muscle fibers. If you train close to failure you don't need as much volume. I don't think people should just do a pre determined amount of volume. Start low and find the minimum number of sets where you are consistently adding reps.

[@ReviveStronger]

I think both approaches they bring up are fine, and are not mutually exclusive. You can try things out and see what works best for you! Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@AberrantArt]

Steve is dressed like hes on a beach in Florida. Instead he's in a dark bedroom 🤣😎

[@ReviveStronger]

Steve's fashion was a hit this time around xD - Coach Jess

[@its_james_fitness]

Gold like this shouldn't be free! Good Samaritans sat round this table, willing to aid our gains

[@ReviveStronger]

You are very welcome, brain gains won't go to waste :D - Coach Jess

[@luciocastro1418]

Is there any research as to how much can you sustain getting up to MRV vs getting close but staying there for longer instead of deloading every 4 weeks? Seems to me that the aditional stimulus that training up to MRV brings, comes at a too high fatigue price that makes you train less overall because you have to deload so much. Instead training up to 75% of the volume ladder (in essence up to 16-18 sets from the 10-20 example given in the video) is less fatiguing and you don't have to deload that often, so you end up training more and is more sustainable. At least that has been the case for me anecdotally. I have to note that at least getting to MRV once is somewhat useful to know about your recovery capacity and make decisions from there.

[@ReviveStronger]

I don't think there is any research on that specifically yet, hopefully in the near future but there are not many researches on this in general! I'm training from MEV-MRV using Mike's progression (coached by Steve) and it's been working GREAT for me, BUT it doesn't mean that the other way wouldn't work either if you get my point. If you found what works for you, I think that's awesome! And thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@a-5681]

This is amazing, what a roundtable! Thank you Steve and Pascal!❤️

[@ReviveStronger]

Our pleasure, thanks for tuning in! - Coach Jess

[@orbarak123]

your best podcast episode thus far !

[@ReviveStronger]

Thank you so much :D - Coach Jess

[@matw1x]

Thanks!

[@ReviveStronger]

No problem! Hope you enjoyed it - Coach Jess

[@naskrajuciszy]

N=1 I used to use the rpe/rir approach for about 5 years trying to stay a couple of reps shy of failure doing 10-20sets per week. A few months ago I decided to start working with a coach closely associated with JP. One top set, one back off set, all to failure. Having the best gains of my life now. Not looking back. Sometimes theory just doesn't align with practise I suppose

[@ReviveStronger]

Well thanks for sharing and I'm glad you found what works for you. :) - Coach Jess

[@arwm05]

More likely that your practice didn't align with the theories properly, than that the theories don't align with practice.

[@Latissimus65]

Ive noticed a very strong trend with this high intensity style of training as well. The ones focused on moving large loads (regardless of rep range) seem to be the ones adding the most LBM/density. AJ Morris is a current example everyone's talking about. This style kind of goes against conventional wisdom

[@naskrajuciszy]

@@Latissimus65 I'm working with Kuba, AJ's training partner atm. I really like both of their approaches.

[@naskrajuciszy]

@@arwm05 I just said I've tried both and FOR ME the intensity works better. If you find than something else wokrs for yiu better then stick to it.

[@Strassenschlaeger]

One of the most informative videos on the topic! Also, between Jared and Eric, I'm almost certain that there is some correlation between hypertrophy and silly haircuts.

[@oxxzkkr]

I would like to emphasize Schoenfeld and Krieger's study (Resistance Training Volume Enhances Muscle Hypertrophy but Not Strength in Trained Men) dind't use that quantity of volume and I quote: "a total weekly number of sets per muscle group of 6 and 9 sets for 1SET, 18 and 27 sets for 3SET, and 30 and 45 sets for 5SET in the upper and lower limbs, respectively". So, the low volume group didn't perform 15 sets, in fact they perform lower sets than MEV. And also, the medium volume group perform 18 sets for the upper body... I think it's important to consider that at the Israetel's claims. I think the study is misinterpreted. Maybe it could be because the 6 and 9 sets (low volume) is not even effectly (MEV) (that's why they don't get more muscle gains), while 18 and 27 sets (medium volume) and 30 and 45 sets (high volumen) they had a minimum effectly stimulus to get hypertophy, but doing more than necessary.

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks you for sharing that. And thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@dmitriholman9151]

Jared is the anime character who stays quiet during the battle until his final form lol a lot of good stuff!

[@ReviveStronger]

You get the vibe haha. Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@aldinstuart5787]

Amazing content though thanks Steve!!

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@hyperbolicgains1238]

Dr Helms is a beast 💪 great podcast

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@hyperbolicgains1238]

@@ReviveStronger whens part 2 out? :)

[@realbenmaynard6019]

This is going to be awesome!

[@ReviveStronger]

Definitely, thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@smarttrainingnutrition1046]

Saturday night entertainment 🔥

[@IntellectualMuscle]

Imagine the dreams had on this as a pre bedtime LULLABY podcast!

[@ReviveStronger]

Hope you enjoyed it, thanks for tuning in! - Coach Jess

[@xregularxjohnx]

at 54:27 Mike says, "Now, on the other hand, if you're training in a way that your pumps are great, your soreness is healing on time and your strength is going up week to week don't fuck with that. You're fucking golden. Don't go up [in volume]." This statement is completely contradictory to Mike and RP's "Scientific Principles of Hypertrophy Training" book that was published in February of 2021. In that book, the RP "set progression algorithm" shows a decision matrix where a performance score is determined by how much you either met, exceeded, or did not meet the days rep target for a given exercise. That performance score is taken in conjunction with the soreness score to determine the day's sets for a given exercise (i.e. whether you'll be adding, subtracting, or maintaining those sets). For example, if you "got stiff for a few hours after training and had mild soreness in the target muscles that resolved by next session targeting the same muscles" and your performance "hit your target reps, but either had to do 2 more reps than planned to hit target RIR or hit your target reps at 2 or more reps before target RIR" then it is recommended that you add "1 - 2 sets" for that exercise today. Which is it? If we can't even be consistent about what our method entails, how can we begin to debate its utility?

[@ReviveStronger]

I am honestly not able to give you an answer and it would be best to ask Mike directly! Thanks for watching! - Coach Jess

[@Fazlifts]

Found this one quite confusing, however I did enjoy Steve looking like a beach extra off the set of Scarface.

[@ReviveStronger]

Fair enough 😂 Steve looks amazing right?! - Coach Jess

[@PerryBattles]

Can't wait to listen.

[@ReviveStronger]

Hope you enjoyed it! - Coach Jess

[@DragonballG.]

Oh boy, have I been waiting for this one.

[@ReviveStronger]

Hope you enjoyed! - Coach Jess

[@Smokeflink]

I agree with Jared

[@ReviveStronger]

He was very hard to disagree with huh xD - Coach Jess

[@ricklee1756]

Was this the last time Eric and Mike did one of these roundtables (aside from the time Mike/Menno debated Eric/Greg about p-ratio)?

[@ReviveStronger]

Oh, that could very well be. Would love to get Eric on again but the timezone difference makes it very hard. - Pascal

[@ricklee1756]

@@ReviveStronger That makes sense! Thanks for the reply, Pascal!

[@Markus-mt7pr]

As others like Lyle McDonald and in this video Eric have pointed out, soreness is not an indicator for hypertrophy. -change exercises every session -> constant soreness, no progression = no gains -stick to same exercise for multiple mesos and make performance gains -> little to no soreness, progression = gains

[@simranbiryani3068]

Its crazy that Mike puts so much value on soreness when it clearly means nothing. You can curl a fucking soup can for 500 reps and get sore.

[@Soccasteve]

It’s kind of amusing how much he harps on soreness and pumps. What if you’re by eating great and your pumps go down? Should you increase sets?? Of course not

[@MortisTangit]

The way they progress volume within meso's will lead to more soreness. When you keep a relatively static volume and don't introduce new stimulus, you won't get sore any more. But if you're vary volume within meso's or from meso to meso by greater degrees, such as from MEV to MRV, you will experience soreness again. You're changing your stimulus on a regular basis > your body doesn't adapt > you experience soreness. When traditional models don't vary the stimulus, soreness becomes an almost non-factor unless you change stimulus, which usually only happens when changing out exercises or adjusting split.

[@ProphetFear]

I have done the same variations highbar squats, RDLs, and bench presses over months and months, and I never stopped getting sore. Sometimes it was profound, sometimes it was mild. That whole time, I never stopped progressing in loads, reps, and occasionally sets. So the stance that sticking to the same exercises just happens to not get you sore worth a damn is not true from what I've seen.

[@MortisTangit]

@@ProphetFear depends on the person, volume, frequency, etc. Generally speaking, someone who does a lower frequency, higher volume will be more likely to continue to consistently get sore and a pump. Volume being equal, as you spread that volume out over more days in a week, one's body gets acclimated and is more likely to no longer get sore, and less likely to get a pump. How long someone has been doing a routine will also affect this. If you do the same exercises in the same order, your body is more likely to acclimate to that and less likely to get sore. If you add new exercises and/or change up the order relatively frequently, you're more likely to get sore. Soreness is generally attributed to novel stimulus. So even if you do the same routine over and over, but you do a bro split, your body will start to desensitize after a week and you could get sore everytime. Resensitization generally takes 9-12 days, so a 7 day frequency is approaching that threshold every week. That's not to say you truly get desensitized every week, but it explains why you're getting sore every leg session, as an example.

[@Wetterwet]

Jared is the man

[@blackishlovah123]

There are times when I did so much volume I end up losing a pump but performance is still stable so I would rate it a 1 on the sheet. The quality was significantly lower but every time it would raises sets for multiple exercises and it just left me spinning my wheels doing a lot of junk volume.

[@ReviveStronger]

Losing a pump can definitely be an indicator that you've reached the MRV for that muscle group! - Coach Jess

[@alenfos1992]

when will part 2 come out?

[@ReviveStronger]

Saturday here on KZbin :) - Coach Jess

[@brianlambert7324]

Steve turn your screen brightness down you won't need the shades. But seriously I love these podcasts Revive stronger is my favorite and greatest minds in the field.

[@ReviveStronger]

Aha so these are blue light blockers but I do also use f.lux - however to make sure you can see me well I use a ring light & as this recording went late into my evening I wanted to make sure my sleep wasn't too negatively impacted, hence the orange specs.

[@brianlambert7324]

@@ReviveStronger Nice. Thanks to you and all the guys for sharing all of this knowledge.

[@ettcnt3822]

Steve got memed hard into those ugly ass glasses. Useless not "evidence based" refinement culture

[@kinginthenorth1437]

I've had great results primarily focusing on volume progression since the world shut down in March. At this point I'm feeling pretty bleh and my third meso of this block hasn't had the best progression but that may just be stress related or a sign I'm ready for an active rest period. Before the world shut down I found that the practical restraints of workout time made Dr. Mike's volume progression awkward as deep into the meso it became hard to fit workouts into the time I had available due to the increase in sets and rest periods between additional sets. In the second half of a meso few days a week my accessory work just didn't get finished (or I had to go back to train like 1 muscle and it became really time inefficient) because I only had 2h10m to walk across campus twice, change twice, shower, warm up a little, workout and get logged into a computer for my next class. While advancing weight in a workout that had a consistent number of sets was much easier to fit into the allotted time consistently throughout a meso. In an ideal world I suspect the optimal results could be a mixture of both, increasing weight when early sets for a muscle group are going over the desired rep range and volume when reps are within range but you're surviving them too well. Possibly intermediates could even benefit most from going back and forth between primary focus of progression from block to block and seeing which works better for them or even which works better for particular muscle groups for them. As a lot of this is individualized in the end and both models make a lot of sense.

[@Lotusdreams]

Remember that time constraints never equal optimal hypertrophy. You might as well have said: I'm getting 5 hours of sleep and xyz didnt work out for me as good as lower xyz. These concepts assume you are doing everything else correct and if you do not have the time the value of exercise selection increases, even tho in a optimal setting it is next to irrelevant. If time is the issue the highest stimulus overrules volumes because you training is inherently not optimal and as such making adjustments away from optimal are necessary

[@kinginthenorth1437]

@@Lotusdreams No shit having other restraints beyond training isn't optimal. I didn't say otherwise. I pointed out that as much as I might like Dr. Mike's method in the real world it does struggle with some very real constraints that Eric's method does not (although Eric's method can struggle more under the constraints of working out in my living room without a rack and cable machines). I fucking said that I had good results with Dr. Mike's model for the last several months and that in an ideal world I suspect both have value so I really don't know what your fucking trying to 'correct' me on. That taking time constraints into consideration isn't optimal matters only to those who don't have time constraints. For everyone else they should consider whether focusing on volume progression might lead to them failing to finish their workouts before they have to leave the gym for obvious reasons. My comment is not aimed at professional body builders who have no constraints on their training but average KZbin viewers who might have something else going on in their lives besides working out. It's not comparable to a lack of sleep because no training methodology works well under a lack of sleep. If you don't have time to do 20 sets per muscle per week but have time for 15 sets per muscle per week; you're probably better off doing 15 sets per week all meso and progressing with load than starting at 10, progressing to 15 and then having your workout fall apart due to time constraints. If you didn't get enough sleep no fucking plan is going to work right and you need to address your lack of sleep, not your training methodology.

[@Lotusdreams]

@@kinginthenorth1437First of all: Take some time between reading a comment and answering. There is no need to be rude, treat people with respect and if you can't in the heat of the moment, don't comment. Now that out of the way, I don't really see how your constraints have anything to do with either model. Both Eric and Mikes models, for a lack of simpler terms, require suboptimal changes. Both do not work very well in these circumstances hence the example of sleep. I am familiar with both of them and neither would agree that their approach is best when adding additional factors. If time is the main issue then priorities for both models change drastically to lower RIR, more load, higher stimulus exercises since all of these help. Both of them. But adapting an existing model to your constrains works with both since they do not differ in the underlying mechanics and the fuss is all about models competing in theory first and foremost. None of the variables they discuss are stable in a normal environment that you cite. Both are only as good in that situation as your understanding of the matter is. Both Eric AND Mike, not one of them, give recommendations if things are not optimal but there's no big difference and both would yield suboptimal results. I don't think either of them would go as far to say: Mine is better at adapting to time, equipment, injuries or what have you and even if that was true it is up to the user to decide what holds up most priority. Models are models, you cannot rate a construct that takes variables as a given based on these themselves. YT that watch this are not your average joe, trust me, that's a bias. If that was our standard you are better off yelling HARDER THAN LAST TIME and there you have a perfect, adaptable model that you should value higher than both of them since time and equipment are a non issue. Have a nice day

[@kinginthenorth1437]

@@Lotusdreams I'm sorry you're so easily offended, you might want to check your testosterone levels. If you can't see how adding sets and there required rest periods, is a bigger issue for those who have a set amount of time to get a workout into, than increasing load then I guess you're as dumb as you are easily offended. Have a miserable life.

[@dan1901]

@@kinginthenorth1437 What a fucking clown lmao, talk about having a miserable life

[@IntellectualMuscle]

Ahhh thank you the Nerd in me can have wet dreams all night after listening to this podcast....

[@ReviveStronger]

Glad we can help xD Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@naji_alhammadi]

28 min ,the discussion between functional overreaching and non functional overreaching ?

[@patrickstarke2478]

Respect all of these guys, but I think Mike’s points are hard to argue with... so long as you don’t take it out of the context of Mike’s auto-regulation approach.

[@ReviveStronger]

I think there is always a way to argue, but again, if everybody finds an approach in that spectrum that works for them.. have at it right :) Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@debit1002]

Can anyone provide the doi or name of the Terraza study? Not sure if I'm misspelling it or...? Thanks!

[@jakeremmert6643]

doi: 10.1519/JSC.0000000000003690 journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=9000&issue=00000&article=94325&type=Abstract

[@debit1002]

@@jakeremmert6643 thanks man. 404 on S&C journal site. DOI not coming up on any of the usual data bases either.

[@jakeremmert6643]

@@debit1002 well what the heck, that's weird I copied them right off the website. The paper is called "Low-load resistance training to volitional failure induces muscle hypertrophy similar to volume-matched velocity fatigue" by terada et al. 2020

[@debit1002]

@@jakeremmert6643 got it man, thanks so much!

[@jakeremmert6643]

@@debit1002 Sure thing dude!

[@alotan2acs]

The publication links are broken! can you please replace them?

[@ReviveStronger]

Done :) Just FYI, Mike's paper is not on open access, you have to pay for it BUT the article on RP's website details it enough to follow the convo :) - Coach Jess

[@Soccasteve]

Around the 30:00 min mark Mike starts talking about how if you’re not making incremental additions in weight or reps then you shouldn’t be adding sets, however in my experience adding lots of sets is one of the worst ways to actually make progress and get stronger. Arbitrarily adding sets every week is a sure fire way for my performance to start dipping. You really only need a moderate number of working sets per movement to actually make progress and Mike just seems to be fixated on volume volume volume. Also the thing about being excessively sore bc of too much volume doesn’t match my experience either. If I perform too much work on a regular basis my soreness actually goes down but my performance will drop.

[@ProphetFear]

Mike does like 3 sets of chest or triceps per session in a meso. He admits to having incredibly low MEVs and does NOT train lots of his muscles with high volumes even throughout the entire meso.

[@ettcnt3822]

@@ProphetFear cause he's on peds.

[@ProphetFear]

@@ettcnt3822 So do people on drugs have lower MEVs or higher MEVs? lmao

[@ReviveStronger]

I wouldn't call him "fixated" but he's definitely making his case. I don't work with a moderate volume throughout my mesos for example and have been making incredible gains compared to before when I used to have a linear volume. It goes to show it's also individual BUT if you found what works best for you, that's fantastic :) And thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@ReviveStronger]

I'd tend to say lower haha - Coach Jess

[@elmhurstenglish5938]

How is volume not composed, in part, of intensity?

[@ReviveStronger]

It's become popular to think of volume for hypertrophy as number of 'hard sets' which therefore does take into account intensity - Steve

[@SuperBizalz]

31:17 - 31:40 - I’m legitimately asking... I’ve heard soreness is definitely an indicator of muscle damage, and I don’t think anyone refutes that part. But... I’ve also heard that NOT having muscle soreness, is NOT an indication of whether you’ve had a good hypertrophic workout. It just seems that if what I have heard is true... THEN muscle soreness should NOT be taken into consideration EVEN as something to be taken in CONJUNCTION with other possible tell-tale factors as to whether you’ve had a good hypertrophic workout OR it relating to MRV. I just want to make sure I have it right, so I can spread the word. I don’t want to be telling people one thing, only to find out I’m wrong later on down the road. P.S. Disclaimer... I’ve been jumping around in this video, so I haven’t watched it all just YET. There is a distinct possibility that the answer to my question was answered in this video. Please don’t jump down my throat if the answer is in the video already. If it is, I’ll find out soon enough. Ok, that’s it. Thanks.

[@brettfreeman5160]

Hey. I think muscle soreness is more of an indicator that you actually worked the target muscle. Like if you did a squat, and your glutes and lower back for sore but your quads felt nothing the next day. But then you do a leg press and get super sore in your quads - You can probably take the conclusion that a leg press works your quads better. Plus, in week 1, if you get sore for 5 days and it carries over into your next workout - then you can probably conclude that you may have done a bit too much and could have gotten away with doing a bit less. I hope this helps give some context?

[@SuperBizalz]

Brett Freeman Hi there, I really do appreciate you taking the time, but it doesn’t address what I was asking. I don’t think anyone refutes that soreness means there was muscle damage. Thanks again, for taking the time.

[@ReviveStronger]

Agreed with you Brett, thanks for this :) - Coach Jess

[@SuperBizalz]

Revive Stronger I agree as well, no one refutes what Brett said. I’m really hoping, and would greatly appreciate the answer to my question. I can rephrase the question if you’d like me to. Thanks. P.S. Because tone and inflection is hard to tell in written form... This comment/question isn’t meant to come off as a dickish comment/question at all; but it very well may. Apologies if it did. Legitimately just looking for an answer.

[@SuperBizalz]

Revive Stronger I’m going to preemptively rephrase my question... At the timestamp I have in my OP, Dr. Mike didn’t put it as bluntly as I’m about to put it, but it seemed like he was saying... If you’re not experiencing soreness, you’re not growing. (Hyperbole on my part.) More precisely, he said, you’re probably not close to MRV. So... does this mean, that if you hit it hard and get very close to MRV, you HAVE to experience DOMS? I’ve heard from a lot of different sources, that you don’t need to chase DOMS, and not to use DOMS as an indicator of whether you hit it hard or not. What you and Brett focused on, was... DOMS, means there was muscle damage. Yes, that part was understood form the get-go and wasn’t being refuted. ...but the question was the reciprocal of that.

[@gingerbreadboy]

If you start a body part at 10 sets but you’re MEV is 14 and you’re only increasing reps and/or weight. How long would it take for you to find out 14 sets is your MEV? Where as if you increase volume as well you might find your MEV within weeks. It only makes sense to me to explore the 10-20 set range and figure out what you’re MEV and MRV is and then work between them over your Meso cycles and it doesn’t mean you have to go from 10-20 you might only go from 10-14 over one Meso and 10-18 over an entire block.

[@ReviveStronger]

It's definitely an option to try things out and see what works for you! Thanks for listening. - Coach Jess

[@Chaosdude341]

Sending love to Pascal! I enjoy his triangles, but less so his Wager ;3

[@sk7172]

Very interesting talk, love these guys!! But.... how was it so tough for the guys to understand what Dr Mike was saying?? Like obviously gaining strength on it's own DOES NOT mean you are training optimally. They all know this in practice but for some reason couldn't accept it during much of this discussion. I don't get it, it's obvious.

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for your feedback and watching! - Coach Jess

[@osmosinsane9611]

For hyperthrophy I go 26 or 27 sets per muscles, three sets spread out with 2 exercises, 2 exercise variations end of week. IE: deadlifts and reverse hinges on monday becomes elevated deadlifts and higher rep sets of reverse hinges with lower weights. Repeat for 1, 2 or 3 mesocycles. What are your thoughts?

[@ReviveStronger]

I'm more concerned about the amount of sets that you're doing to begin with rather than the exercise selection, how do you recover ? - Coach Jess

[@osmosinsane9611]

@@ReviveStronger i use a pretty intense diet and supplement alot of vitamins, minerals and protein shakes of multiple types, timed intakes throughout the day, good meals, high fat cottage cheese in the evening, 45 min later i go with the traditionnal chelated zma. Spacing magnesium and most minerals away from calcium and 600mg dimm a day 300morning 300pre workout. Alanine and creatine are on the satturation point. The whole thing works better than most of the people would have it work on them because i did a whole year of 16-8 fastings on paleo, then switched to keto for 2 months because i couldnt manage to reach the third lol, i was then using 24 to 48 hour fasts with hiits at the end on my fasted days only, i did lose a little strenght output but it came back when i stopped cardio and cut mezo to start hyperthrophy. My insulin sensitivity is so high that i litterally absorb everything i eat and the pace at wich i recover is quite impressive tbh! Two days ago 40k pounds on the legs with 28k pounds only on quads. Yesterday 65k pounds on upper body, althonit was mostly general upper body without really focussing except maybe extra lats. Think i will be able to go for my leg day tomorrow? What about in two days? I will definitely hit you up about it. Thanx for the consideration i appreciate it so much ! Peace buddy

[@osmosinsane9611]

If im not dead by then 🤣🤣🤣 Oh yeah, no steroïds. Dimm tho, man dimm works!

[@jamesdashper1316]

My issue is that Eric and Brian don’t provide an example of an optimal progression they just point out the obvious fact that some of Mikes progression is educated guess work as we don’t have enough data to definitely say anything.

[@ReviveStronger]

It takes a bit of listening to their ideas and knowing the background but their progression is more so through longer mesocycles and progressing load versus adding sets (that's a very brief overview lol)! - Coach Jess

[@jamesdashper1316]

@@ReviveStronger thank you

[@shuvamsur4304]

Just an out the topic question but if I am doing 2 times a day training can it be AM push PM pull.

[@ReviveStronger]

You can ask that question on the Revive Stronger Facebook group, for the improvement season podcast :) - Coach Jess

[@Dridacus]

Can't wait!!!!

[@ReviveStronger]

Hope you enjoyed it, thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@philbovet2826]

With all of the MAV, MEV, TUT, RIR...reminds me of, “If the VP is such a VIP, shouldn’t we keep the PC on the QT because if it leaks to the VC, then we could end up MIA, then all doing KP.” -Good Morning Vietnam!

[@ReviveStronger]

It's a lot for sure 😂😂 Thanks for making it through! - Coach Jess

[@archmaesterofpullups]

Mike claims that strength MRV is 2/3 of that of hypertrophic MRV. He also mentions that you know that you hit your MRV when you regress in strength. Seems like going to hypertrophic MRV would be logistically difficult to measure if these MRVs are disjoint.

[@pablotapia8237]

I find that it would be very hard to measure mrv if you are for example, training chest and triceps the same day(which is usual) you perform good on both, but if you add a set to chest, it is very unlikely that triceps will perform at the same rate or enough to add another tricep set, it gets really confusing as to which muscle to add sets on if you hit exercises that use both

[@McMeatBag]

Giving the people what they want

[@ReviveStronger]

We try our best :D - Coach Jess