113: Mike Israetel - Prime Driver for Hypertrophy: Progressive Tension Overload vs. Total Volume

[@ReviveStronger]

Timestamps: 01:09 Mike shares his insight about the prime driver for hypertrophy: Progressive tension overload vs. Volume 19:14 Mike's opinion on competing age for natural athletes 32:37 Mike speaks about how the MEV is practically applied 36:32 Mike's take on not changing things until you stagnate 39:13 Mike furthermore talks about when to make changes 1:00:06 Mike shares some insight on future releases and projects

[@colin5423]

think im obsessed with interviews with Dr. Mike tbh

[@ReviveStronger]

I mean, there are probably a lot of people who are addicted to the same drug - Coach Pascal

[@jwgosla08]

Same ☠️

[@jamesrussell5196]

He’s the goat

[@LUKA_911]

Me too lmao

[@hggird]

Whenever I see 'Mike Israetel' in the title, I hit LIKE in the first second.

[@ReviveStronger]

Wow, you got 42 likes with that one! - Coach Pascal

[@hggird]

I just surprised and shocked at the same time.

[@Knx3k]

Same honestly, that man's golden

[@MeleDrummer]

DR MIKE 4 PRESIDENT!!!! *MAKE AMERICA JACKED AGAIN*

[@ReviveStronger]

He has my vote! - Coach Pascal

[@segason6]

"Volume is king, intensity is queen" That should be a shirt

[@szotakandrei]

If that's the case, then execution is the Grand Priest.

[@ReviveStronger]

It most definitely should! @Szotak, are we talking about DB? ;P - Coach Pascal

[@testbear6869]

but if you want to be ontop of the castle then you need them both.

[@sebastienroux1790]

Frequency vs intensity though.

[@kaganas_edits7551]

And periodization is their child, I guess

[@dezukaful]

mike israetel and the revive stronger podcast = winning combination

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for the words! - Coach Pascal

[@PrinceDavid.]

I think Mike has the biggest balls, when he said "you don't have to do this shit, you only live once", all of the others coaches in the fitness industry will tell you to not give up even if you fucking hate the process, dude this is so reliving, because everyone this days is like: "you have to go balls to the wall even if you're a casual lifter", dude this right here it's pure gold, really, best truthful content in the whole fitness podcast right here. Thank you.

[@ReviveStronger]

Totally. I always say that no one is forcing you to do this. No one. You are in control of your life and if you think differently, it's just because you're looking for some kind of justification - Coach Pascal

[@michalus09]

I understand like a 10% of it but it still makes my workouts better.

[@ReviveStronger]

And progress is actually all that matters - Coach Pascal

[@solomonrosenbluth6803]

The John Meadows x Bostin Lloyd story is wild to hear bc they’re both gone now.

[@ReviveStronger]

Sad sad sad :(

[@ssm-sf8by]

You will never see this but I love you all for the work you're doing with these podcasts, the amount of free knowledge you put out for the sake of it is humongous

[@ReviveStronger]

Just the support alone is the highest form of appreciation - Pascal

[@franciscohestnes]

Dr Mike’s pictures are getting much nicer.

[@ReviveStronger]

He's also getting older and is married now. It needs to be that way - Coach Pascal

[@LarryShipeWorld]

Watched in 2022, still relevant

[@dontdrinkcola]

Patreon crew checking in! Thanks for the great answer! Love everything you guys provide - Mike AND Steve

[@ReviveStronger]

[@chiragshah139]

Awesome explaination on volume and intensity. When he quoted Tom Platz he just nailed it

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for listening :) - Pascal

[@torbit]

Ok, this is probably my 3rd time watching this video. Thanks guys!

[@alden2826]

Dude i watched your podcasts when i first started lifting when i was 16, im about to turn 23! man, time flys. love all your stuff especially with Dr. Mike. thanks for the great content

[@ReviveStronger]

That's amazing, thanks so much for sharing this and for the support! - Coach Jess

[@Mownshta1964]

Man mike is the fucking man... gotta love his analogies and savagery

[@tangomango2459]

Mike Israetel is phenomenal! He speaks the truth!

[@ReviveStronger]

Totally agree! - Coach Pascal

[@philclarke3660]

Loved the whole discussion around the 50 minute mark

[@ReviveStronger]

Love to hear that mate! - Coach Pascal

[@Mr_DXB-kt5di]

This guy's analogies are legendary!!

[@ReviveStronger]

And I have the feeling, they're only getting better - Pascal

[@Mownshta1964]

A big thank you to the team involved here... priceless knowledge

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks a tonne for the support and kind words :) - Pascal

[@austinr5635]

I need a shirt with a snapshot of every youtube/podcast interview Mike has done at this neck angle

[@ReviveStronger]

Hahaha, go do it! - Pascal

[@whitegatorade6209]

This was an amazing episode Steve, I love Dr Mike and the way he explains stuff and your input and questions to what he says really brings out great content.

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks Alex, highly appreciated and happy to hear that the episodes resonate with you. - Coach Pascal

[@RichardWilliams-sn7tt]

10:05 absolutely nails it.

[@ReviveStronger]

yep!

[@The10Daniel10]

Ohhhhhhhh exited as fuck for this episodeee!!! Like and comment before even listening. That's how much I trust this guy!

[@ReviveStronger]

I know I can count on you - Coach Pascal

[@yellowbeard1]

That photo of Mike with hair feels weird to look at.

[@warendar3047]

Wow! This is going to be fantastic!

[@ReviveStronger]

Hope it was? - Coach Pascal

[@warendar3047]

Fully satisfied. I could listen to this two guys a whole day :)

[@ollvi]

like mike said, you need both, it's the mixture of volume and intensity/progressive overload, but i will say that when i dropped my volume for shoulders a bit and upped my intensity to get stronger faster on OHP, my shoulders grew a lot more from that. So from my experience you should not sacrifice either of them completely for the sake of another. Need to have a balance

[@ReviveStronger]

True!

[@Kaymen1980]

This is fantastic content 👍

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks so much :) - Pascal

[@Kaymen1980]

@@ReviveStronger No, thank you!

[@RichardWilliams-sn7tt]

18:17 absolutely nails it again.

[@ReviveStronger]

yeeeep

[@luisschachinger2311]

what about Reverse Pyramids ? One heavy Top Set for the heavy Compounds in the 5-8 Rep Range and then get the Volume in with lighter Back Off Sets but focus on progressing the Top Set of course with adequate weekly Volume ?

[@ReviveStronger]

I think, it could work. However, it could also lead to you being able to do less "quality" volume. What I mean by that is that you have that one set which is highly fatiguing that then forces you to use less load for the downsets. - Pascal

[@colin8601]

So how would a concept like "cluster sets" fit into our notion of this volume vs intensity? If I'm doing 90% plus for cluster singles of 10 (maybe 30 seconds rest between), is it "the best of both worlds" or basically just doing Mike's "second twin" example of high intensity low reps, thus not much size gained?

[@Fullmetal6]

My take on it: Clusters certainly have their use, especially for increasing volume in strength phases, but using the intensity alone (90% you mentioned) is ultimately going to reduce the volume you will be able to preform. (in other words, you won't be able to be as efficient as doing sets with 70% for 8-12 reps) Also, as Mike suggested in the start of this video, the high intensity directs adaptations in neuromuscular sense, whereas higher volumes direct them to growth/hypertrophy/work capacity. Thus, clusters with a ton of volume might be sub optimal due to spreading adaptions in too many different forms. Lastly, changing rest periods (clustering reps) don't seem to be worth it (physiologically, anyway, psychologically is may be useful) except in metabolite training.

[@colin8601]

Fullmetal6 right on ok good input. So has anyone done any specific look into optimal intensity/rep range to benefit from clusters? Or is it more like "6 of one half dozen of the other" with using them in a strength phase?

[@relentlessvegeta]

THANKS MAN

[@ReviveStronger]

Cheers buddy! - Coach Pascal

[@yohannesmathyasjr4947]

This man Mike be roasting low key 😂😂 I love it

[@ReviveStronger]

Hehehe, he does it all the time - Pascal

[@markdelej]

Im still a bit confused about volume. If volume is king and the driving force of hypertrophy, then how come if i add weight to the bar and end up doing less total reps, and therefore less total volume, i see gains. Higher volume could be achieved by lowering the weight by say 20% and doing say 12 reps, as opposed to not lowering the weight and doing say 8 reps. But the heavier weight at 8 reps may actually be better for hypertrophy than the 12 of lower weight. So how is volume king here?

[@ReviveStronger]

There has to be a minimum threshold of intensity. King is still progressive tension overload - Pascal

[@TiagoSalgadoFitness]

How can I measure, or which measures can I take to know after some (or many) mesocycles/macrocycles which exercises I respond better or are my favorites?

[@ReviveStronger]

When you've made continuous progress for a while on this lifts. Or if you change things up, come back and get stronger quickly. When it comes to hypertrophy only, a good indicator is mind muscle connection, progress via volume pr's, etc. Very minimal chance that this doesn't contribute then - Pascal

[@marshalfrancis3353]

i personally think there should be some kind of wrap up or conclusion so that one can see the timestamp for that in the description. will likely attract more viewers cause 68 mins of talk isnt everybodys favorite :D

[@ReviveStronger]

We'll take that into consideration :) I think it's a great idea! - Pascal

[@williamsheppard2026]

is that thumbnail dr. mike plus brendan fraser?

[@ReviveStronger]

HAHA, absolutely xD - Pascal

[@robertburtchell5747]

Once again another amazing podcast! I do have a question though regarding the MRV when it comes to boyweight training and weighted calisthenics.... Do they have a different set of landmarks or cause less fatigue in general compared to barbell and dumbell work? I've personally been adding more weighted and unweighted calisthenics work into my hypertrophy pahses, and have noticed my weekly upperbody set volumes have almost doubled when compared to my last hypertrphy cycle. Also, as a side note, I am using the Reps in reserve method and stopping 2-4 reps shy of failure on the bodyweight stuff just to make sure I was keeping it in line with my weightlifting as a comparison. My apologies for the volume of text and if it was confusing,

[@ReviveStronger]

MRV can be used for all sports and every single one of them has a different volume landmark. Let's say a runner can't recover from 5x20km runs throughout the week but is able to push it to 5x15km, the same principles apply. So, you're still doing resistance training, which is closely related but still different somehow. - Coach Pascal

[@robertburtchell5747]

Revive Stronger thank you for that feedback!

[@razvanimal8690]

18:05 What do you mean bro, it's all about confusing them muscles!

[@ReviveStronger]

So that they don't know who they are - Coach Pascal

[@razvanimal8690]

Damn straight. My bicep just asked me the other day if it's the glute muscle.

[@ReviveStronger]

You did an amazing job then. Mine actually once thought they were wings on a bird. - Coach Pascal

[@Tom_North]

Big Cheese - Fucking great comment 😂😂😂

[@EmperorPenguinXRemas]

Should I go on in my fourth week to a fifth, when I went to failure this week and just progress on 1 extra set of volume or should I deload now? It felt like maximum recoverable volume this week.

[@ReviveStronger]

Hard to tell, I think Always Hungry made a great point though - Coach Pascal

[@Livefree432Livewhole]

The One a.k.a the Invincible Incarnation of Power! Just about to start my 5 week macro cycle and am just curious after your question if you’ve progressed using this method? Please get back to me. Thanks

[@aquatune9996]

Thank u steve

[@ReviveStronger]

Always...ehm... - Coach Pascal^^

[@copernicus99]

Great interview. However, I'm a bit confused about how Mike was defining 'volume' (the 'boss' of hypertrophy). Is it the number of 'reps' total over the course of a given week? The number of (hard?) sets? Or volume-load: reps x sets x load? Thanks in advance for clarifying this for me!

[@ReviveStronger]

For a muscle group and meso cycle it's hard sets. For single exercises, total tonnage/volume load can be appropriate to track the overall progress over time - Pascal

[@copernicus99]

Ok, thanks!

[@jamesmorrison1166]

Looking for opinions, I just started a program built around MEV-MAV-MRV, how would one organize around barbell only work. I am alternating workout A and B with two days rest between workouts. WORKOUT A: High Bar Squat 5 sets, Bench 5 sets, Barbell Row 5 sets, Press 4 Sets WORKOUT B: High Bar Squat 5 sets, Deadlift 5 sets, Bench 5 sets I warm up, and pick a weight and do straight sets, working at 10 reps a set now with 2-4 RIR. Having not done any reps over 5 in 9 months, 10 rep strength is very weak. How would one ideally increase volume overtime on this routine. Increase reps week to week to a point, then increase weight and deload rep range? Add a set week to week and keep weights constant? Increase weight on bar slightly week to week. I want to be consistent.

[@ReviveStronger]

If you haven't joined our facebook group already, go there and ask for this. You'll get proper help :) - Coach Pascal

[@CNSproductions14]

I have a question. If in Mikes first theoretical scenario of the twins, one of the twins is working in 90% of their 1RM and gaining strength but not size. What is the driving factor of strength if neurological adaptions have already occurred?

[@vaughanstarr3725]

54:50 - Guess I am bloody naive, listening to Mike's negative view of steroids in the past I had assumed he was drug free. But taking "special sport supplements" and "I was using tons of ..." ....so yeah. This is the same bloke who in other vids talks about the idiocy of steroid use, of how you take away from the future/longevity to enhance the present! I have got info on volume and rest manipulation from him which is working awesomely! But...he will be hard to listen to in future because the medium is the message, or at least a big part of it. And right off the bat I am going to have more respect for a natural trainer than yet another short steroid jacked guy.

[@ReviveStronger]

Sorry to hear that but I don't think someones personal decision impacts their observation and interpretation of data and thus, the info they're putting out. - Pascal

[@vaughanstarr3725]

@@ReviveStronger Mate, I get your position. And on one level it is fair. Is the info Mike provided any less awesome for his seemingly schizophrenic views on steroids? Have I personally benefited any less? The answer is no. But, the medium is part of the message. It just sucks to be placed in a position where you have to listen to someone whom, for very good reasons, falls under the category of, 'F@ck this guy!' in order to access some useful info. Makes him harder to listen to.

[@marialondon1411]

@@vaughanstarr3725totally

[@drmarkp1]

.. Whether it be high or low volume, either is worthless without adequate intensity .. More volume does not take the place, nor add value beyond the intensity of effort .. The greater the intensity however, the less volume the body can tolerate or withstand .. Adequate volume necessary to achieve optimum growth is subject to too many variables to establish a definitive number requirement .. The objective therefore is to reach a 'threshold' to the point where the target muscle has simply had 'enough' .. The moment a person feels they have determined they found the 'best' or 'right' way of doing things and try's to put it in a box; is the very moment it escapes them .. The 'secret' of bodybuilding is to know how and when to apply the right kind, or 'dose' of intensity, volume, and resistance, at the right time, to yield the optimum result

[@ReviveStronger]

Thank you for sharing your perspective and thanks for watching :) - Coach Jess

[@N8N.]

RIP John Meadows

[@gamerchristina1079]

Another THANKS!!

[@ReviveStronger]

You're welcome :) - Coach Jess

[@arunavsrivastava1387]

Please do a video on training for Saiyan Physique

[@ReviveStronger]

Haha what do you mean? - Coach Jess

[@J90JAM]

What about the studies that support the high intensity, low volume proponents? They look like decent studies, but I never fully believe them. So many coaches who claim that they're not bros support this type of training and point to the same one or two studies all the time (I don't think they're even meta-analyses).

[@epicbehavior]

Did he say going up 2.5 kg per week while ALSO increasing volume? Dafuk?

[@ReviveStronger]

Sure, with some exercises that is possible if you're progressing via RIR as well - Coach Pascal

[@bj12288]

10:05 ,11:30,11:50,15:15

[@ralphwarom2514]

Damn. Boston Loyd actually died. Sad.

[@ReviveStronger]

Yup :/ - Coach Jess

[@SuperJotunn]

Mike Jizzraetel

[@ReviveStronger]

I think, that sounds absolutely appropriate - Coach Pascal

[@AbeTee]

LMFAO

[@whitegatorade6209]

Woooo!!!!

[@ReviveStronger]

Yeeees! - Coach Pascal

[@tangomango2459]

Steve I would've never guessed your 28 years old! Your gonna be able to look young and good for a very long time! Weeeeee

[@ReviveStronger]

Yeah, I hate Steve.... - Coach Pascal

[@tnaeshstones8646]

Can you reach 90% of your muscular potential in just two years of proper training and recovery?

[@wesfin]

40:06-47:00

[@ghostmajesty]

Man the bostin L and John meadows part. 😢 and now they're both gone RIP

[@ReviveStronger]

Very sad indeed - Steve

[@mertonhirsch4734]

Doing heavy singles and doubles an not growing is not the same thing as saying that progressive tension overload is not the long term driver. A bodybuilder will be doing much heavier weights, but similar volume 5 years from now as he gains 30 pounds.

[@mertonhirsch4734]

Long term, it's tension because you can hypertrophy a muscle pretty consistently by cycling between 8-24 sets per muscle group per week for years, but the weight has to rise relative to the cross section of the muscle over those years.

[@torbit]

Awesome

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks! Hope you enjoyed it - Pascal

[@Jmack7861]

3:42 yay I’m well trained

[@ReviveStronger]

Congratulations? Haha Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@copernicus99]

Is Mike suggesting that, in principle, one could get bigger just by increasing the number of sets while keeping the load the same? This seems contrary to the wisdom of the ages that if you're not getting stronger, you're not getting bigger. Could you please clarify?

[@ReviveStronger]

It's not contrary. Once a minimum threshold of intensity is achieved, volume probably becomes the main driver for hypertrophy. Cody Haun's study was looking at exactly this - Pascal

[@copernicus99]

Thanks Pascal. Do you have a link to Cody's study?

[@ReviveStronger]

@@copernicus99 sure thing. Should have included it from the get go www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2018.00084/full

[@copernicus99]

Thanks again! Incidentally, here is an interesting discussion of research related to this topic: p70s6k.com/2018/09/28/some-thoughts-on-resistance-training-volume-and-hypertrophy/ In particular, muscle swelling/edema may be a confounding factor in studies examining the effects of increased training volume. Indeed, it is often unclear what exactly studies of muscle hypertrophy are measuring: p70s6k.com/2018/12/15/muscle-hypertrophy-what-are-we-measuring/

[@coffeecupwithtea]

Casually looks up this Boston Loyd they mention not lasting into old age.. to find he died at 29.

[@verydarkelf7083]

Arnold won the olympia at 23 /24/25/26/28 🤔

[@franciscohestnes]

“Pyramid thingy”!? You know who’s not going to be happy about that talk, don’t you?

[@keithbarbaro7590]

No. Who?

[@ReviveStronger]

Martin Berkhan? I actually dunno.. - Coach Pascal

[@franciscohestnes]

😂 Dr.Pyramids himself! 💪🏼&🍽 🔼! Eric Helms!

[@ReviveStronger]

Hahaha, absolutely right!! 😂

[@MikeLitoris4]

Greg aka kinobody only does 3 sets RPT style and has the best client transformations in the fitness space. Martin Berkham also? most of his clients are NATURAL. Isn't this low volume and goes against Mike's volume theory????

[@selimhajali9007]

leangains.com/reverse-pyramid-training-guide/, this suggests starting at 5 to 8 reps and ramping until 9 to 12 reps are reached. It's time effective, yes, that's its main advantage (very important point if you want to coach the general population) but Mike talks about optimizing hypertrophy, different methods for different goals. Also, when he talks about the low volume that doesn't (generally) lead to hypertrophy, he is talking about singles (up to triples), he isn't talking about 5-12 reps, almost pushed to failure, which works pretty good, obviously, it just might not be optimal.

[@JustinMorgan105kg]

Elio cd he actually discusses this principle several times during the interview. Unless you regard those client transformations as being advanced lifters. They are not, but if you regard them that way then you might not accurately interpret what M Israetel is saying.

[@MikeLitoris4]

They aren't advanced lifters but Mike has said many times that more volume is better for gains and he even said it is vs progressive overload. Greg Kinobody only focuses on progressive overload.

[@ceboiscoming]

If you are a newbie literally any probram that has strong adherence will produce drastic results quickly. Dr. Mike is talking about what is optimal for non-newbies

[@JustinMorgan105kg]

Ira He talks about this exact scenario when discussing a lifter that is getting results without using scientific principles of strength training. He says that the lifter would still make better progress if they utilized better training principles.

[@bboyvinnie]

Lmao he just crushed my dream of staying a life-time natty. 2lbs muscle gains per year? Fuck that! Guess I’m gonna have to tren harder.

[@ReviveStronger]

Dbols droppin' like candy - Coach Pascal

[@bigmarv333]

So Mike’s on S.S.S. and snakes have a vertebrae? What’s next? Santa’s not real?

[@ReviveStronger]

Ouw Santa.... - Coach Pascal

[@markdaly8169]

MARVIN FERGUSON JR c Brilliant

[@MeZoRH]

I'm actually quite curious as to what big hairy daddy is taking ? Ive seen his older pics, and have been following him for a long ass time. He deff isn't using high dosages, he's probs more along the lines of 400-600 mg of test a week.

[@ReviveStronger]

I can't say much but as far as I know it's really "conservative" - Coach Pascal

[@tnaeshstones8646]

I think he responds well to PEDs...but the sides are messing with him....going bald at 32

[@tnaeshstones8646]

I think he responds well to PEDs...but the sides are messing with him....going bald at 32

[@deltanacnud]

All about the Benjamin’s

[@gamerchristina1079]

👍👍❤️❤️‼️

[@emmang2010]

Damn all this John Meadows talk did not age well at all. RIP

[@MrDeanmfitz]

Wow look at that hair

[@ReviveStronger]

Definitely more than now haha! Thanks for watching! - Coach Jess

[@becomeplayer1]

John Meadows’ joke did NOT age well

[@tnaeshstones8646]

Can you reach 90% of your muscular potential in just two years of proper training and recovery?

[@tracidvoyager]

no