WHAT IS THE BEST CYLINDER HEAD FOR MY 5.0L FORD? WHY I CHOOSE THE 185 AFR OVER THE 165 AFR HEAD.

[@chandlerlofton6536]

Like I have mentioned before, I had a 1990 LX 5.0 with the manual trans in high school. I copied an engine you did back in the day to put in it. It was a DSS 306 with AFR 185s and that XE274 grind in it. I can’t remember what intake I had at the time, but that car was an animal! Way faster than a 17 year old had business driving!!!

[@aaronliddell4280]

That’s pretty damn close to the ideal street set up, just needed a turbocharger to complete the build! 😉

[@chandlerlofton6536]

@@aaronliddell4280 I always wanted to do a S trim on it making about 10lbs, but unfortunately I lived in Houston Tx for a while after highschool , and it was stolen and stripped!

[@evilinside5984]

@@chandlerlofton6536 😢

[@daffyduckling6958]

​@@aaronliddell4280And then you can kiss your reliability goodbye.

[@markowens64-uh7bc]

Ran the 185 on a 402 cu inch Windsor. In a 2900lb car went 6.77 in 100 degree heat in the 1/8th mile. The engine only 10.2 comp and an off the shelf 294 comp hyd. roller.

[@tttony9426]

im so glad i found your channel,im restoring many old fords with 302/351 your info. is priceless thank you

[@johnjones928]

I read an article 20 years ago that came to the same conclusion, they ran both heads on the same short block and the 185's lost very little down low to the 165. You would probably only feel the difference right off idle, once the revs crossed 2500 the bigger head took over. That's not to say the 165 isn't a great head, it'll support 450 hp and is perfect for even the most mild of builds as you don't lose any drivability over stock. Just don't waste time on a ported set, buy the 185.

[@keithtobin5369]

Richard I love watching your research. Videos. Thank you so much for all the time and effort that you have put in to help us. Thanks again keep up the great work

[@bigc6310]

Looks like the AFR 165 combo was on it's way to 400 horsepower if it weren't for the valve float.

[@Bjrn-ArildUllersmo]

Very explaining and good to know . I actually got one 185 myself . I didn't notice the valvesizes , maybe You said but it was too quick . My cylinderheads are called #1388 , V2 with 58cc chambers , I think they are of the type "Renegade" .

[@davidturk6170]

The 185’s have larger valves, which may interfere with stock pistons. The 165’s (1399) have 1.9” Intake, 1.6” exhaust valves which they guarantee to work with stock pistons.

[@shawnfc3s]

I agree. I run trickflow flow 11r 190cc heads with stock bottom end. And a .607 lift 224/232 custom cam.

[@SimonWallwork]

I used Ford GT40X heads on my 289- stroked to 302. I got the 58cc version. The thing runs great

[@markmccarty9793]

Hi Richard, long time fan of your show! Now, I live in a state that doesn't do emissions test. Yankees love my state! Yes, use thev thev185, but on a 351w! I GAVE all my 5 liter parts away! Practically gave a 5 liter long block to a friend. Swapped it for something! If a 351w will fit, use it! That 1/2" od stroke and nearly 1" of connecting rods is awesome! The only down sides are the extra weight on the nose and shock tower clearance in older (65-66 Mustangs or Falcons) but those are collector cars!! The increased low and midrange torque Wimmer make it harder to launch, but you can get past that easily with a foxbody! Take off the training wheels and put on the big boy pants !

[@KingJT80]

the other option would have been to build a 347 out of the 5.0 and put steel caps on it. that way you would have had the cubes + the clearance

[@markmccarty9793]

@KingJT80 Sex up in a hammock! Why spend all that money on an 8.2 block! The rod/stroke ratio sucks, it's a hand grenade, and Noone fall for that "it's only a 306 ")

[@matthewludvigson6108]

Thanks for all the great content! You mentioned in a previous video you would check PTV clearance on the afr 185 heads 2.02valve and the xe274 on stock block. How did that go?

[@richardholdener1727]

not yet

[@gofastparts4u]

I think the 165 is more geared for the guy with a stock shortblock that doesn't want to deal with flycutting for valve clearance that the 185 would need. Overall, I think the 185 is a great head for just about any small block ford. Even on a 392/393 stroked Windsor, those 185's are awesome heads. If I remember correctly, in MM&FF, their 392 stroker made over 500hp with 185's. You might have even done the test way back when.

[@richardholdener1727]

I did

[@humbertoarellano2725]

I have that combo back in 2000 i think 393 afr 185 xe282 hr vic jr

[@totensiebush]

do the 185s have bigger valves? or just you might as well run more cam on the bigger heads?

[@supersportimpalass]

@@totensiebush yes 2.02 to 1.90

[@Backyardwrenching1243]

I was thinking the same, although I contacted afr and they recommended a 185 head with smaller valves compatible with the stock shortblocks.

[@Tripledoffroadbbq]

I’m happy to see this! I have the renegade 185 I’m gonna slap on a fresh sbe 302 with the mighty b cam and 1.72 rockers. Should be a good combo for a scsb 4x4 with a manual trans.

[@deanstevenson6527]

The same hump exists on the 195 to 209 cc 2V Cleveland 302, 351 C/ 351 M and 400 head, a big ski jump from 2500 to 2800 rpm. No loss on having a reasonably big port.( Seen first in the 1988 Australian Street Machine "Power Games" Lynx Industries SF 902 tests on 302 and 351 Ford engines with 2V Cleveland. heads. They ran a range of CC252, 260, 268 and 280 cams)

[@richardholdener1727]

seen first?

[@jeffschwartz5199]

. Nobody wants me to put the 359 4V Cleveland l had built , in my 95 Cobra . 😢 , but I like the information on the 5.0 .

[@jaydubb71]

I recommended the AFR 205 head on a relatively mild 306. I would have recommended the 185 had I known the owner was too cheap to upgrade from a the China version of the GT40 intake to something bigger like a Holley SystemMax...

[@cbxsix]

I've wanted someone to do a test disproving the 'too big head' myth for a long time. I'd love it if you did a back-to-back test with the smallest vs. largest aftermarket head from some company - AFR 165 vs. AFR 220 on a stock 302 short block, for instance, and start the pull from way down low, as far as the dyno will hold. I've yet to see any penalty from high flow intake and exhaust ports!

[@richardholdener1727]

please see the port volume video

[@jacksonbermingham2168]

its not really to big that vid.. gotta remember the 302 had cleveland heads and loved it to.. and from memory they where 300cfm at 600

[@I_like_turtles_67]

Bigger isn't always better.

[@2lotusman851]

if the port volume is too much, the port velocity drops off and it tends to zap the low speed torque. Check out Fords' Boss 429 heads from the early 70s (essentially the basis for a NASCAR race engine). To try to make it streetable, Ford tried moderate carburation, mild cams, and yet the engine was still flat in the low and midrange, compared to other engines.

[@chandlerlofton6536]

I’ve been on the opposite side of the fence. I like a small runner volume head with high flow. But that’s because I like quick throttle response and good low end torque on the street. On the track where you live on the floor board, that’s not going to make a difference. The bigger heads will be better for full tilt power.

[@TomSmith-cv8hk]

1.9 v 2.02 valve yes ? so the low flow improvement is valve diameter, port volume we can't be so sure, at least from an inertia column filling the cylinder at lower revs.

[@dennisrobinson8008]

Not a fan of E7TE's but it was impressive to see them make 350HP on the 333ci.

[@midnight347]

That is at the crank with straight headers no exhaust no accessories turning etc. I'm sure you know that but that wouldn't even see 300 wheel in a car more than likely. Still decent for such a restrictive head.

[@dennisrobinson8008]

@@midnight347 I'm aware it's a situation where a much better head would be worth 80,90 even 100+ HP over them.

[@midnight347]

@Dennis Robinson and that is exactly what these aftermarket companies do they take a maxed out combo otherwise (besides heads) and add the heads and they add 100 hp and the company will advertise "up to 100 hp gain" which isn't lying but it's misleading

[@dennisrobinson8008]

@@midnight347 sure isn't.

[@hotrod7938]

It always blows my mind how these heads are allowing more power than a 351C4V (my first engine)

[@dennisrobinson8008]

We're doing Cleveland chats in other discussions. The stock cleveland 4V head flowed 275CFM@.600", most people built bad combos. With a valve job they flow 310CFM@.600" and with bowl work and a valve job the flow 305CFM@.500" and 333CFM@.600", they are some bad asses. The modern day Cleveland head is the CHI which are made in Austrailia and they are used in 600-1000HP build ups. Cleveland heads dominate on low lift flow. The Flow at .300" lift is 235 or so where a good windsor head will be a little over 200.

[@scottmanuel5418]

What about for a heavy application like a fullsize truck? They like to recommend a smaller port to keep the air speed up on the slower revving deal.? PS I Enjoy your Dyno comparison videos👍

[@Cowboy.underwater]

Use a 351 or 351 based stroker. that lets you keep the airspeed up with displacement instead of revs, and allows room for greater overall torque output.

[@scottmanuel5418]

@@Cowboy.underwater missed my point. The video was talking about a 302. That head would be ideal for a 351 in a heavy vehicle (according to manufacturer s). Going by the video why not use a 210cc?

[@KingJT80]

@@scottmanuel5418 because whats your main purpose. a 210 is a 7000+ RPM head on a 351W stroker. a 185 on a 302 is a 6500 rpm head and a 6000 RPM heads on a 351. how high you feel like revving it to make that power? they DO make more power on a dyno but you dont drive a dyno around pulling things im assuming? that and the valve on the 165 is a 1.90 meant to be a bolt on to a stock block 5.0 after 86. the 185 has a common 2.02 and youre gonna need pistons or flycutting.

[@jcnpresser]

I think people get stuck on themild build, thinking they need just slightly bigger. Like you said, if it flies better at low lift then it’s gongs be a better head over all.

[@jeffschwartz5199]

I always watch when you're talking blue oval .

[@silkysmooth7900]

I’m most impressed with the stock head.

[@xnotx2]

A man of wisdom!

[@a66coup289]

You did a test of a 165 on the exact same 333, why not compare both on the same engine? Why not put the 185 on the 302? Meaningless to compare a bigger head on bigger engine.

[@hugieflhr03]

This was a great video, can you do the sbc and others with the smaller aftermarket heads.

[@tristonshelton6059]

Are these the older style 165 and 185 heads or the renegade?, supposedly I heard the 165 renegades flow similar to the older 185.

[@zachheindl8619]

Id like to know the same

[@jeffschwartz5199]

Yes do some testing . New tests would be great . I know , 🤑 .

[@jasaircraft]

Would it be ok to use the 185s of going the supercharger route? What cam would you use?

[@keithjones7674]

Thank you for the videos learning a ton! AFR 185 good choice for both 302 and 351w? If I use on my 302 could swap them to a 351w if I decide to go with the bigger motor?

[@richardholdener1727]

YES-GOOD FOR BOTH

[@MarkCarr331]

Dammit Richard!!! I have buyers remorse now.. i need me some AFR 185s 😂.. i mistakenly bought Edelbrock E street heads for a BF sale and regret Not having the power im looking for.. have you ever run the E streets on SBF on dyno? If not thats okay.. i now 100% want those AFRs

[@richardholdener1727]

I don't think I have-but we did run RPM heads-they worked well

[@MarkCarr331]

​@@richardholdener1727 Im buying those 185s like I shouldve the first time but i was being cheap lol 😢 Great video. I'll be replicating that 333 setup

[@michaelgraham2347]

Can you test the sve heads

[@johng397]

Very interesting set of tests. Questions: what estimated gain is due to the compression increase? Why is there a large airflow jump in the.500-.600 range between the two heads? What would be the potential gain if the 306 displacement was retained, but the test went to 8500 rpm with the 185 head?

[@richardholdener1727]

would be a completely different cam and intake and short block and valve train

[@johng397]

@@richardholdener1727 I bet I'm not the only one interested in a high reving 302!

[@jdrods1519]

Awesome!!! Numbers don’t lie! 🇺🇸💪🏼

[@christopherc3017]

More info for my fox. Thanks Richard.

[@russelljackson7034]

Right on

[@JesusRoseAgain]

Nice HP from that engine

[@timweb1510]

Keep the sbf coming

[@jplperformance9073]

Awesome video as always 👌

[@theredwedge9446]

Hey Richard I was hoping if youd be able to try and shed some light on this claim I read about in a forum. On his turbo charged car, he had put a muffler that was more restrictive to make his car quieter and he said the car felt like it was faster. Any Ideas on what he may have been talking about ?

[@richardholdener1727]

it "felt" faster

[@dannykichar9066]

Richard those are the old outlaw heads can you test the newer renagade heads 165 vs 185 on a 302 and 347 I I don't believe anyone has ever done this test or even one testing outlaw vs renegade heads of it was a chevy it would have gotten done

[@jojog8304]

Looks like new renegade heads (which have been out since 2012, so old too!). 'The old outlaws flowed 129I/118E at .200 lift. I know, I'm using them. The outlaws intake was -10cfm on average compared to the 185 renegades and +5cfm on average against the 165 renegades.It's the exhaust that blows the old versions away, like +20...and both the new 185 & 165 intake and exhaust flow #s are the same upto .300 lift! explains why you want the 185s hands down if you can do the piston clearancing.

[@P71ScrewHead]

"There's no such thing as too much head".. - TigreLoko24..

[@Airsally]

Just built a 306,with summit flat top hypereutectic pistons,the comp cams 264 cam and AFR 165 heads. 94 mustang using FR extender set a 12.25 to 1 afr. 24 lbs injectors on a ported explorer intake. 70mm TB. What kind of hp and torque would you say this combo would make. I don't believe it's anywhere close to your carburetor version with same heads and cam.

[@richardholdener1727]

WATCH THE EXPLORER INTAKE VIDEO

[@Airsally]

@Richard Holdener thanks I was able to port my explorer by cutting a window into the side and making a 1/4" aluminum plate cover to bolt on. So I should be close to the GT 40

[@aaronpence5746]

165 was made for small valve relief pistons.

[@KingJT80]

yep 86-after 5.0 bolt on

[@daveconklin4582]

Are these the renegade or enforcer head and have you ever done a comparison of renegade vs enforcer

[@richardholdener1727]

these were before those names existed

[@dannykichar9066]

Can you test newer renegade heads against these

[@4077661466jp]

So what kinda HP, would've been made had those 185 cylinders been installed on 306ci u had used with 165 cylinder heads ?

[@richardholdener1727]

165 vs 185 on a mild combo will produce similar power numbers

[@sorshiaemms5959]

Good video thanks

[@jeffschwartz5199]

Thanks for all your useful information . I use your videos for my encyclopedia .👍

[@danilovgrisha]

Can You please tell me if 185cc 2.020 will fit the stock sbf302 efi From 1989 town car ? Do I have to change the pistons ? ( gonna transfer it to carburetor)

[@richardholdener1727]

with what cam?

[@danilovgrisha]

@@richardholdener1727 what cam should I put for the power increase ? 350-400 hp is more than enough! And maybe what pistons a should buy ? (But stock pistons preferable )

[@jameskechter9682]

What MSD distributed do you run on the 347 tests?

[@WITNESSx_xME6855]

What about speedmaster 210cc heads?

[@mikequast2881]

I have a set of enforcer 185s with 1.90 valves I want to run the xe274hr cam. What springs would you recommend?

[@richardholdener1727]

the ones that AFR has for those heads for 600-lift hyd roller cams

[@mikequast2881]

@@richardholdener1727 those are the ones that came on the heads, I wasn’t sure if they would work, comp says they want a minimum of .060 between coils at full lift..

[@trydentb-rad4538]

Can you do a video on throwing a 6-71 or 8-71 blower on a built 5.3L ls? I watched the video on the ls 383 ls but I am thinking of throwing a roots blower on a 5.3 and go for 800+ horsepower.

[@trydentb-rad4538]

I do not know much about blowers but I would love to thrown one on have it stick out of the hood

[@richardholdener1727]

it works the same-just more boost

[@Jv19979]

If I'm wanting to have higher compression should I use the 165? I want to use a Anderson n41 cam. It's stock 1989 5.0. if I have to I'll get it bored I will. This will be my first engine build.

[@richardholdener1727]

the 165 will work well on a 306

[@terrancerobinson4018]

Question is this only for carbureted engines or could be possible to have the same results for mass air flow engines

[@richardholdener1727]

HEAD WORK THE SAME ON BOTH CARB AND EFI COMBOS

[@docsmallblock6584]

But for any newbies that may be learning, don't get all caught up in flow numbers, bigger flow numbers doesn't always mean a better running engine! There's also port velocity to consider, and it's very important! Here's an example, say you and your buddy both have identical 355 Chevy's, same exact cam and all, only difference being is heads, you got a set of 170cc vortec heads and he has a set of 235cc dart head's. Well is will flow a lot more, but from red light to red light you'll probably kick his teeth in! From better velocity!!!

[@chipcurrey653]

There's never any proof of that on this channel. Stock GM 376 cubic inch ls3 has a 257cc intake runner and makes more power everywhere than a ls2 with a 210cc intake runner.

[@KingJT80]

its all about purpose. he MIGHT kick your but but if the 235 is tuned correctly with the right gearing that story might end up different its the whole package. now if its a 170 vortec vs a say, the AFR 180 the 180 will walk that vortec. hell even an as cast 185 enforcer will walk that vortec head. i mean its meant to be a company van head. not so much a performance head. thats why they also made bowtie 185 and 225 vortec versions that have 2.00 valves and bigger ports. those are performance oriented

[@kirbyswarp]

Are you completely done with the 3800 engine testing?

[@richardholdener1727]

no sir

[@kirbyswarp]

@@richardholdener1727 I'd love to see the Northstar throttle body mod on the L67 with GenV blower.

[@TurboRanger351]

If you combine the numbers for both tests and cylinder heads , the 185s only made 6 horsepower and 9 ft pounds of torque more than the 165s based on the only variable that didn't change "E7" heads. So really no difference at all at the end of the day. Example: 90 hp and 36 torque over stock with 165 and 96hp and 45 torque over stock with 185 heads

[@richardholdener1727]

nice try

[@TurboRanger351]

@@richardholdener1727 it's in the math! Look at it again.

[@TurboRanger351]

@@richardholdener1727 unless you're saying the AFR 165 heads make less power then the E7s on the larger motor!

[@GrandPitoVic]

Very nice sir.

[@rmarzino]

With this combination afr 185 heads can you run a efi intake? If so what do you recommend?

[@richardholdener1727]

yes-pick the intake based on your desired power curve (where you want it to make power)

[@st8jkt69]

Any testing with 185s on 351

[@robert23497]

I remember about a decade ago when darts new heads flowed more cfm even though they were using a slightly smaller port. They said that any time you can do this......you get a better all around combo with more power everywhere instead of just at the top of the rpm range. The new heads that year may have been called the renegade series.

[@UFOGHOSTHUNTER]

Would the 185 Heads work on a 306 with L2488F30 Sealed Power pistons❓ The guy I bought the engine from said it was bored over 0.30.

[@richardholdener1727]

you need to check p-v with your cam and those heads/pistons

[@aaronliddell4280]

So how does one know when too big is too big for a head?

[@richardholdener1727]

JUST ASK

[@aaronliddell4280]

@@richardholdener1727 who? The head manufacturer or you or? In other words, I’m asking! Lol

[@ezacher4634]

Don't like these oranges and apples tests. The larger port could have some lazy airflow on that 306. Especially important if you want a good strong torque curve vs a peak number.

[@richardholdener1727]

you need to do more research

[@ezacher4634]

Exactly what I was trying to do. A comparison isn't a comparison when you change everything mid test...

[@danmyers9372]

The answer to your question is the Trickflow Twisted Wedge head. It’s is 100% the best head for any SBF.

[@richardholdener1727]

according to the data-AFR might have something to say about that

[@MrAPCProductions]

Unless I am reading the data from AFR's site incorrectly, the AFR 195 renegade out flows the 185 in all lift ranges?

[@KingJT80]

yes because youre getting into the "race" heads and the need for the single plane intake they make

[@mac-qg2qz]

Are the afr heads cnc ported or as cast ?Also would you recommend the 185 on a 408 stroker 500 wheel

[@richardholdener1727]

the heads tested here were cnc and for the 408-I would step up to a 205

[@Cowboy.underwater]

It depends on your setup, but 500 wheel can be as much as 600 crank. That’s a serious NA motor that will require a minimum of 300 cfm from the heads. Your looking at the AFR 220 heads and a solid roller cam.

[@Cowboy.underwater]

They are full CNC heads

[@jwillard911]

I understand your reasons as far as flow at peak rpm and if track or other wide-open throttle stuff. Do you not think the normal driving thru all rpm's the smaller port velocity (airspeed) would make the overall drivability better than the volume increase in flow? Or would they just equal themselves out? Same same? I ask cause that is something the dyno does not or can not test for? Thx!! Or can it?

[@richardholdener1727]

part throttle might be different

[@russellbroadwell]

No body sells more old apples and oranges then RH.

[@GumbiMobileMechanic]

What type of heads would you recommend me for a 92 5.8 w/10 psi boost

[@richardholdener1727]

lots of choices

[@GumbiMobileMechanic]

Skate some with me please

[@smoberley]

I'd be really curious to see this test with both heads on the same mild 306, rather than the bigger head on a bigger engine. What about part-throttle, tip-in, throttle response, with the larger head vs. the smaller? My experience has been that the 165 is a lot snappier on the street on a mild combination than the 185s or comparable Twisted Wedge heads. Even with a stock cam the bigger heads are soggier than the 165s. That Car Craft 165 test referenced used 1-3/4 headers and all of your tests have 1-5/8...just saying.

[@richardholdener1727]

FEELS SNAPPIER!

[@smoberley]

@@richardholdener1727 I take this for sarcasm, as opposed to answering the question, so I'll be more direct: How big of a blind spot do you think WOT pulls on an engine dyno have with regard to driveability and "smiles per mile" with a street car? Some of us autocross. Dyno pulls happen at WOT, and unless its a drag car, a car spends 1% or less of it's life in that operating condition.

[@KingJT80]

@@smoberley most people have actually done this if you read the mustang forums and they'll tell you the 185 is better on the 302 unless you have a completely stock block then the 1.90 valve'd 165 is what most people used. they proved this years ago using the renegades. the drivability difference is negligible, but the cars were faster down the track more times than not so just run the 185s on a 302. and why would you buy a smaller head for the exact same price? this is how the TF 11r 170 vs the 190 is. same price. more head thats what i wanna do or the TF 190 11Rs or Promaxx project X 185s on my 302 zephyr

[@smoberley]

I 've seen the same results you have. I've owned literally 50 fox bodies, including Fairmonts and T-birds. I've done loads of 302s over the last 30 years. I own a Mustang chassis dyno. The question wasn't which makes more peak power, the question was why not run them against each other on the same motor and see the results. Probably because on a 302, the 185s are going to show a loss of power and torque under 3500-4000 vs the 165s. That deficit increases at part throttle (Dynos are at WOT). Where you're going to spend all of your time when you're actually driving the car, and is also useful on an autocross course. Perfectly valid reasons to choose a smaller head for all kinds of applications and thus relevant to all the non drag-car enthusiasts on this channel. I've had both sets of heads on 302s and I can tell you the 165 is a lot more fun on a stock cube motor, even if it is a tenth or two slower on the dragstrip. If. The "FEELS SNAPPIER" clapback is a really dismissive, snotty response to objectively verifiable reality. It's also in quotes even though that's not what I said.

[@KingJT80]

@@smoberley what you lack in torque (which is negligible again) you will make up for if youre picking the right stall converter and cam. the only reason id go with a 165 is piston clearance on stock pistons like an 86GT autocross street..wouldnt matter as said a 185 is better all the way around. then you dont have to buy the head again/port them if you wanted to go to 347...youre already there with the heads. they cost the same. im not buy a smaller head for the same price just so i can gain MAYBE an extra 5 ft lbs under 3k when im already gonna use a 3k stall with the 3.55s i have

[@jacksonbermingham2168]

needs more camshaft can you do a vizard flat tappit beat a roll cam like his latest video i know you did it with ls lsa video but id like a different motor🏁

[@richardholdener1727]

flat tappet made more than a roller?

[@jacksonbermingham2168]

@@richardholdener1727 only qouting/relaying

[@Selkirk69]

What about port velocity?

[@richardholdener1727]

THE DYNO TELLS US WHAT PORT VELOCITY DOES

[@jameshattencraig]

Will 185 heads be good for a 331

[@richardholdener1727]

YES

[@DavieJones_Lockr]

Velocity ?

[@TomSmith-cv8hk]

Would have loved to have seen the 185's on the 304.

[@evilinside5984]

I would love to see you dyno test, the comp xfi 236hr vs comp xfi 248hr stroker cams. On a 13 to 1 compression dart 363 short block, run on E85, using a 950 E85 carb. Tested with parker funnel web vs super victor intake (trying 1 inch, and 2 inch super sucker carb spacers on both intakes), and 1 and 3/4 Long tube hedders vs 1 and 7/8 Long tube hedders. And top it off with trick flow 11r 205cc heads vs afr 210cc competition ported heads. Now thats a wild, pump gas, dyno i have never seen, but its my dream pump gas setup!

[@KingJT80]

shit 13:1 on a 363?! 220 LOL and that cam is WAYYYYYY too small for that compression and some e85. use a big solid roller that will go to 8500 that 248 might go to 7000+ on a 363 and 205's

[@evilinside5984]

@@KingJT80 Im sure 205s on a 363 would be great to 7k, to 7,300 rpm, as i had a 400+ cu. In. Sm. Block with 200cc heads, and a solid roller cam before, and those heads did not flow nowhere near as good as the Tfs 205 11r, or Afr 210s. Yes, 7,000rpm is the max rpm i wanted my 13 to 1 comp., E85, 363 combo, to go to, as i dont want to go to shaft rockers, and i dont want to always adjust lash of a solid roller cam. The xfi 248, is a very healthy hyd. Roller= 248 @ .050 on the intake duration, and 258 @ .050 on the exh. duration, with a 112° Lca. I wonder what this combo would prefer, 1 3/4 longtubes, or 1 7/8 longtubes? I also think the parker funnel web single plane with a 2 inch 4 hole super sucker spacer, under a E85 950 would out perform a super victor, in average Hp, and torque, from 4,000 to 7,000 rpm?

[@KingJT80]

@@evilinside5984 I'd think an e85 oriented 850 would be more than enough carburetor for 363 even at 110% VE of a race style engine but yes that's pretty big hydro roller cam. I think you could get away with adjusting lash every oil change on a solid roller. I tossed around the idea on my 302 but since I'm only going to 6500. A hydraulic cam would work I'd think if you really want a max effort 363, the solid roller will make more power and rev faster and the 205s of either AFR or TF will come with solid roller springs by default because they know most people at that level are ditching the hydro roller for a solid roller and they just use regular rocker arms and stud girdles and let it eat

[@evilinside5984]

@@KingJT80 If i could get a solid street roller custom cam made for the 363, i would run it. I had a solid street roller cam before in a 9 to 1 comp. 400+ cu. In. Sm. Blk., 255 deg. Dur. @ .050 straight across, with an air gap rpm intake, only 1 5/8 longubes, 200cc iron eagles, gas 750 dp., shifted @ 6,500 rpm, 4,000 stall speed tq. Converter, n @ 3300lbs., ran 11.57 @115Mph, w/1.60 sec. 60ft. And i only lashed the valves twice in about 10 years, of street driving, and going to the track a few times a year!

[@OldMoparShit]

What head would you recommend for stock piston 302 with 542lift cam

[@richardholdener1727]

need more info, how much power do you want to make, what rpm, what is the intake? etc...

[@OldMoparShit]

@@richardholdener1727 it has a wiend stethl intake 750 Holley deep sump oil pain with windage tray and a high pressure oil pump stock stroke stock piston stock rods cam is advanced cam has Been degreed about 350 hp or 400 6500 max on rpm

[@richardholdener1727]

AFR 165 OR TFS 11R

[@OldMoparShit]

@@richardholdener1727 appreciate the help would the 2.02 valve clear the stock pistons ptv

[@richardholdener1727]

depends on cam duration (not lift)

[@lensalvo6105]

How would it work on a 393 ?

[@KingJT80]

195-205 AFRs

[@bbq5.0]

What about the efi guys

[@richardholdener1727]

heads work the same-most EFI systems limit power

[@Go4BrokeOffroad]

Mo pow baby!

[@FairladyS130]

Typically both the heads are delivering max power around 5500 rpm when the engine should be capable of producing more power way beyond those revs. Instead the fix seems to be to pay more money for a stroker. Makes no sense to me.

[@KingJT80]

well here''s the deal. the 165 is a bolt on for 5.0 roller motors the 185 isnt because of the big 2.02 valve if i had a stroker yes, id use a 185..even the enforcer will work with flat tops in a 331 and im thinking about that for next yr..

[@aaronliddell4280]

This test seems too apples to oranges. You’re comparing a larger engine’s (331) power to a smaller engine’s (302). Especially when comparing low speed power…

[@richardholdener1727]

WHAT IS WITH YOU AND APPLES AND ORANGES

[@aaronliddell4280]

@@richardholdener1727 I like fruit, it’s good for ya 😉

[@CrankAddict]

Why do dyno operators always correlate low valve lift flow numbers to low speed torque? Low rpm response in a product of air flow AND velocity. I think you may be on the right track, Richard, but I think you may be postulating a theory which you aren't prepared to test. I would like to see a test where you try to prove yourself right, but then back it up by trying to prove yourself wrong. That would be a good video. Don't get caught in the common fallacy of trying to prove something that you wish to be true. It is your job as an engine scientist to remain unbiased and let your results speak for themselves. I wish you could have kept that 306 for all the tests.

[@richardholdener1727]

you must be new here

[@KingJT80]

you know how many dynos this guy has ran?! since the late 90s ?! LOL

[@CrankAddict]

@@KingJT80I don't believe something just because somebody tells me its true. I want to see scientific testing using scientific methods. I stand behind my statement. This video is pseudo science at best, and not befitting someone of Richard's dyno experience.

[@ze_german2921]

How is this stock 302 making 300hp when my 91 grand marquis’s is just rated at 150hp. I would love to see a complete turd 302 and have someone explain how severely restricted these engines are.

[@richardholdener1727]

A stock 302 doesn't make 300 hp-this was not a stock motor

[@phamalinin6036]

Hi everyone friend

[@kalui96]

Bigger is better... until it isn't

[@ThomasELeClair]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Like that shirt,,,,,,,or,,,,,,,,sauring dyno....................................................

[@bradmaas6875]

So, by this logic, a 195 or 205 would be even better.

[@richardholdener1727]

OR A 225, 245 OR 265-THERE IS ALWASY COMMON SENSE TO APPLY HERE

[@bradmaas6875]

@@richardholdener1727 Not so common.

[@dennisrobinson8008]

With stock bottom you have the valve relief issue...

[@MrBlackbutang]

Nope

[@commander1125]

Lets talk 3.5 ecoboost

[@georgethompson4098]

On your camshaft lift specs do you go by .050 or .004 duration?

[@richardholdener1727]

DURATION SPECS (I'M SURE THAT IS YOUR QUESTION) ARE USUALLY MEASURED AT .050 OR ADVERTISED (WHICH CAN VARY)