Rickson Gracie - Mark Schultz / BJJ vs Wrestling

#MarkSchultz #RicksonGracie #PedroSauer Rickson Gracie Mark Schultz BJJ Wrestling
Rickson Gracie - Mark Schultz / BJJ vs Wrestling
It is the stuff of legends - the mid to late 1990's grappling match between Olympic Gold medalist Mark Schultz and JJ Black Belt Rickson Gracie. What better source for this story than one of the participants, Mark Schultz himself. Here Schultz takes us through that day in Provo, Utah...
The full length DEEPDIVE with wrestling legend Mark Schultz is right here -
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Thanks for listening to Rickson Gracie - Mark Schultz / BJJ vs Wrestling
#MMA #UFC #NHB #LytesOutPodcast #LytesOut #MixedMartialArts #ChrisLytle #MMADetective #MiguelIturrate #MikeDavis #MMAHistory #OldSchoolMMA #FightPodcast #FightTalk #DEEPDIVE #FiftyFightClub #MMAPodcast #FightPodcast

[@doca8792]

Man, I’m blessed to have gone from white to blue directly under Rickson. The basics he taught have really helped me. Then from blue to brown under Kron, and the life lessons I’ve learned on the mat are invaluable.

[@ztholston]

You have a monster crew of coaches! That’s awesome

[@johnmatonne7834]

Try BJJ on the street. You will quickly find that its not like in a Dojo.

[@doca8792]

@@johnmatonne7834 ok.

[@doca8792]

@@johnmatonne7834 took me a minute to think about a more realistic scenario response. I appreciate Jiu Jitsu for what it’s taught me on how to handle life’s challenges, and secondarily as a potential self defense. And you’re probably right, in a street fight it’s much different than the mats, that’s why a 9mm is much more handy when it comes to self defense in a street fight.

[@Bigramt]

Try bjj on the street Try boxing on the street Judo Wrestling Karate Etc Etc Street fights are dumb and to be avoided unless totally necessary Some practice a sport/martial art to compete To learn a skill To get fit Yes maybe for self defence I train judo,used to kickbox and I'm under no illusion that I am invincible in a fight. Far from it, but some training is better than nothing if the need required. Street fighting is for mugs Good video

[@SouEuIAm]

I wrestled at BYU when Mark arrived there. I was about Marks weight and had the (un)fortunate opportunity to wrestle him almost every day. I learned more from wrestling him than any other time in my wrestling career. I remember this match between Mark and Rickson. Many of the members of the wrestling team would go train with Pedro Sauer after wrestling practice.

[@LytesOutMMAHistory]

Mark Schultz is an under appreciated legend that gave his life for wrestling. Your experience with him is something that many are interested in learning about but also do NOT want to experience themselves. Please… we need Schultz stories

[@mikemoriarty6061]

You should share some stories!

[@matthewmonsour6235]

Mark nailed it when he said "the combination of bjj and wrestling is the best there is."

[@edwardrichard2561]

Or you could learn Catch as Catch Can. Not nearly as well known now but in the early 20th century it was dominate. Carlos Gracie was challenged by a Catch wrestler. Carlos had a bunch of rules the catch guy had to use. Finally they had a bout. Carlos gets man handled and walks off. About a years time goes by. The three Gracie brothers jump the catch wrester and beat him with a metal pipe the proceeds to hyperextend his limbs while the others hold him down. They served about three years in prison. The was let out because the Gracie’s were politically well known. Catch wrestling later becomes folk wrestling. They just made all of the throws, holds and hooks illegal. Gracie’s stole a lot of the holds and renamed them so to think they made them up. Rolls Gracie there first champion and Rickson teacher learned Folk wrestling and Sambo then implemented it into his game against the will of his fathers. Kemura learned catch as Catch can and used it on Helio and made him tape by double wrist lock. Gracie’s coined is the Kemura.

[@edwardrichard2561]

Guys like Josh Barnett ufc light weight Champ is a catch wrester. He beat Dean Lister in grappling match. Which until then Lister was thought of un beatable.

[@KKSuited]

@@edwardrichard2561 CACC is certainly valid but it isn't the end all for grappling. Look at how easy Gordon Ryan dismantled a much larger Josh Barnett (who was likely roided to the gills since he is out of USADA's grasp). One could argue that a mixture of judo, wrestling and BJJ is the end all be all grappling style. Proficiency in all phases of grappling, from neutral to clinch to ground work. Not ironically, this is the foundation for Khabib's style, which is considered pretty revolutionary in the grappling world.

[@edwardrichard2561]

@@KKSuited I agree with you 100%. Today’s submission grappling game is a mixture of everything. Rolls Gracie took that approach first in BJJ against his fathers wishes. Which changed BJJ from a defensive sit and wait style to a aggressive style we see today. John Danaher looks at that way as well. Which he has coach a lot of champions. From GSP to Gordon Ryan.

[@jamescooper-hope6930]

Yes, great combo, would be a near impervious adversary. Combat sambo seems pretty solid in all areas to. Sambo - bjj and sambo - wrestling would also be next level and we'll see the results over the coming years.

[@mohammedzahrani5068]

Rickson just made a video saying that mark is the toughest guy he ever fought.

[@fjbxrplover]

I had a similar experience with Royce. I was at what I think was the first Gracie seminar in the states right around 89-90. No internet or yourube. I am rolling with him and put him in a three quarter nelson. You can only pull that crap in junior league. He was totally on his back and I am holding him in a pinned position for like a minute then he squirmed out and of course tapped me fifty different ways. It became very apparent that there was a big difference in the two. Wrestling taught me a million ways to take someone down and put them on their back but bjj was designed for submission and you could see the great advantages immediately. What an ego check.

[@odinanithegreat7544]

Have you ever faced a judoka?

[@MichaelSmith-ny9qh]

Its teaches you balance, base, control, scrambling, pinning, lots that applies to bjj.

[@shakoiatenhawithacrossjaco9051]

Had a bjj guy purple belt come to wrestling practices to work on his wrestling game. Taking him down was really easy, but then I got tapped out about 6 times in a row so there was that lmao

[@lake_cooper]

This is SO AWESOME. Love the mutual love and respect between these LEGENDARY WARRIORS 🙏🏻

[@angel-rq4fz]

Mark Shultz is a great wrestler and a Gentleman just like Dave (RIP) his brother .

[@DanniJohnclaude]

They are my favorite wrestlers of all time rip Dave Shultz 😢❤

[@KKSuited]

Mark lives in my hometown. Had the privilege of meeting him at my gym. He is friends with the owner, who is a literal depiction of a bodybuilder/ powerlifting viking.

[@glennmahoney3911]

Mark is so awesome no jiu-jitsu training and only taps twice in 40 min against Rickson is crazy.

[@BeyondPostal]

Seriously that is HUGE.

[@JBCCT01]

They way he talks you'd never think he could literally rip your arms off. Great guy! MONSTER!

[@devriestown]

Very cool interview thank you.

[@secprosinc]

The extended interview was really cool too! Great get, LOP. Keep them coming.

[@lichtsoldat7697]

Just wondering, did you ask Mark if that rolling session was video taped?? Rickson always taped his challenge sessions. Just curious. Would love to see that grappling match!

[@fjbxrplover]

Hahahahaahahahahaaha, the gracies taped everything!!! Dude, I was corresponding with someone on aol back in the day. He was from Utah. Dude had a library of videos. “Rickson beach fight, Leo Dalla parking lot fight” Them dudes taped everything!

[@secprosinc]

This is an unbelievable clip. The entire interview was awesome.

[@LytesOutMMAHistory]

Schultz was without a doubt the toughest man in the world at one point in his life

[@1_Bad_Z]

Too bad we didn't get to see Sakuraba against Rickson. Saku was trained under Wigan Catch Wrestler Billy Robinson. Come to think of it; Judo Gene Le Bell was trained under another Wigan Catch Wrester Karl Gotch. Karl and Billy trained together.

[@jking5772]

I think the Great Gama beat all of their teacher’s

[@giqwaju3691]

Lebell wasn't trained by Istaz (Gotch) as a long term pupil so much but rather taught some things here and there. That goes to show, just a small fraction of catch absorbed by an already proficient grappler in another style can make a huge difference.

[@theemperorcharlemagne]

@@giqwaju3691 Gene learned from Ed “Strangler” Lewis, Lou Thezs and Karl Gotch.

[@theemperorcharlemagne]

@@jking5772 their teacher, Billy Riley, was too small for Gama. Riley was a world champion in his weight tho.

[@cageragepodcast2795]

THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE EPISODE!!!!! Fox Catcher fame has far surpassed Mark's other accomplishments, but he is a true American athletic hero. We studied The Schultz wrestling camps for years. I trained with a guy in Indy that trained at Fox Catcher. He left shortly before the terrible events that followed. Great work guys!

[@bodhiyoga9465]

That was such an interesting and entertaining video 👍🏻 Thanks very much for sharing 😊🙏🏻

[@kitechile2]

got to wrestle his brother Dave and worked out with Rickson, two of the baddest & coolest cats you'll ever meet.

[@LytesOutMMAHistory]

No way.... what was the strength difference between the two?

[@kitechile2]

@@LytesOutMMAHistory physical strengths or technique strength? not sure what you're no waying about?Did you happen to get to workout or compete against either one of them?

[@kitechile2]

@@LytesOutMMAHistory Lytes out, I was very fortunate to have been in completely different situations and got to compete and workout with these two phonoms.Physical strengths believe they were are par with one another.When (trying)to compete against Dave it was a lower weight then when working out with Rickson.Technically they were at the highest level and very intivated.But beyond all that these two are/were the classist people you'll will every meet.

[@joecalio6489]

I'd love to see a take down tournament for jujitsu.. it would open up the fact that bjj isn't fully developed.. the younger talent is showing it on the mat.. but take downs are weak.. I know the finish is the goal, but I like thinking a perfect double leg lift and slam, a firemans, or even a good ankle pick, should be appreciated!

[@mrtselfdefense4185]

You will see all of those at bjj tournaments. It scores 2 points.

[@terryprust9604]

It would have been amazing to see Gene Lebell's best student Gokor Chivincyan who was undefeated also.

[@giqwaju3691]

I love Gokor and he is awesome but his "fight" record is kind of bullshit.

[@khem931]

"That was pretty cool... let's go again." This is what it is all about! :)

[@KeoluBoy100]

Glover Texeira’s voice came high. Must be off the juice.

[@pinkydavis6113]

Modern no-gi JiuJitsu is has become a Wrestling/JiuJitsu hybrid sport and they both compliment each other...

[@luisphilipesilva]

Shultz fought Rickson Gracie in a street fight and lost?? ... Incredible. I didn't knew that, but now I see that was only a grappling submission match like a normal roll in jiujitsu today or a normal training in wrestling one on one testing Technics nothing more... For me shultz is a gentlemen and and a champion in all sense of the word .. and Rickson is equally one of a kind... Fantastic

[@LytesOutMMAHistory]

Yes it is a very honest conversation with one of the guys who was involved. one of a kind...

[@carlosortiz6923]

No it was a grappling match. It there was strikes it may have had a different ending.

[@jukenukem9667]

@@carlosortiz6923 Oh it certainly would have

[@KKSuited]

@@jukenukem9667 yeah you can't let old school mark Schultz on top of you for twenty minutes, IDC who you are. He was definitely not afraid to throw a headbutt, which is fucking terrifying if you're planning on showing off your guard game.

[@saintoflastresorts2272]

Depends on the rules. A. there was no striking B. Rickson got held down for 30 minutes. Basically its a submission no time limit sporting event with a guy who doesn't have know submissions. Both guys ended up looking good. Schultz controlled Rickson and Rickson got his sub.

[@Malouco]

Mark just needed some subs A little catch or judo would hv helped a lot! BUT STILL BICHOS IT WAS RICKSON 🕺

[@wlbernie]

"I let him sweep me" HAHAH

[@omarzavala295]

I just read Ricksons book BREATHE and he said that he challenged Mark to a vale rudo rules match and Mark declined and just wanted to grapple. And I correct me if I’m wrong but Rickson doesn’t have cauliflower ears at all

[@rocket5557]

Schultz went 40 minutes with the best guy in the world in his own sport with knowing ZERO submission defense. If It would have been the reverse Rickson would have been destroyed. Bjj guys NEVER challenge wrestlers to a wrestling match but the reverse always happens.

[@jonmoris9354]

of course which leads to so many misconceptions, i do judo bjj and wrestling and alwaays noticed this

[@jiujitsuvideo3835]

BJJ guys dont need to wrestle you rock, we'll just choke you out:)

[@mrtselfdefense4185]

The goals aren't even the same. Mark Schultz was the world's best wrestler on many occasions. You just lack the respect that those guys have for each other.

[@edus777]

The Gracie challenges were to a no rules fight, why would they do a wrestling match? They were proving that BJJ was the most effective martial art in a real fight situation.

[@vincenzomarsden9259]

Rickson himself said that Mark was the toughest guy he'd ever fought. Not because of the game or any shit like that. Rickson said it was because he never let up. Mark was on him like a fuckin gang of nats and bees. Rickson told me that mark never let him get a breath when he wanted to breath. Rickson doesn't have a lot of cauliflower ears. He might have then but he rarely does because he doesn't let a lot of people take his neck. You get a guy buy his neck, you're not talking about shit. Mark is incredible. These men are Gods of Martial movement. ❤

[@LytesOutMMAHistory]

IMO this interaction was the reason that Mark Schultz was never invited to compete in the early ADCC tournaments I am also of the opinion that his brother Dave was a God in the world of wrestling… and Mark should be ranked higher than him in the all time rankings

[@k0d0kan]

I don't get why everyone is so impressed by JJ players tapping guys that no NOTHING about the style. You see it all time with JJ players going against other guys that no 0 about JJ. It's kind of laughable...

[@edwardrichard2561]

I advise people to look into Catch as Catch Can wrestling. It’s the father of folk wrestling and pro wrestling. Folk just took out the submissions aka holds and hooks. To make it safe for kids. The Gracie’s brothers didn’t like catch wresters for good reason. Carlos got his butt handed to him by one. Josh Barnett ufc champ and catch wrester beat Dean Lister who was the top Bjj guy at the time in a no gi match.

[@BarrettWillsonoutofmylife]

🤝 Hello Mr. Rickson, just saw your video. From me 👍👍👍 Barrett sends you greetings from Germany

[@jaws7794]

rickson just rode it out like royce vs severn,which is slow down & defend just wait for an opening to find a submission..mark went to train & learn bjj, subs from pedro sauer..that made mark more dangerous and ready for the UFC.WOW!!...

[@BeyondPostal]

Pretty damn awesome for a few reasons.. #1 Pedro sauer is a insane good BJJ teacher... and the fact that Mark had 3 years of training under Pedro before he got into the UFC... HE COULD HAVE BEEN A UFC CHAMPION.. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED? Why didnt he continue his UFC career?

[@jaws7794]

@@BeyondPostal yea that is a mystery why he didn't continue and do more fights in MMA. But there has been a lot of other good wrestlers that did go into MMA and become champs.

[@tac6044]

Wrestling will always be superior especially in a no rules fight. A real fight.

[@swaggercre8ions518]

It is now because of the knowledge people have of BJJ… grappling is more superior. But if you have no idea about each discipline BJJ will always tap the wrestlers…. That’s why BJJ was so much more effective in the early days of MMA, but wrestling has surpassed it now, because of how much more knowledge the fighters have now….

[@thomasguynes1447]

CACC!!! Wrestling free/folk has no “real submissions”…if Mark had some Catch experience I believe he would’ve faired a little better.

[@MIKOLBZ]

Amazing insight!

[@baka120y4]

Amazing!

[@theimage1144]

I believe chael sonnen said his wrestling coach told him bjj beats wrestling! And from that point on he asked his dad to put him in bjj, his dad replied whats bjj ?

[@LytesOutMMAHistory]

We have a Dan Lambert interview in the can - should be released in 2 weeks He said that out of all of the coaches that the American Top Team employees, there is only 1 BJJ coach there… Said that BJJ in MMA has been nullified

[@fjbxrplover]

With due respect to Rickson, it aint even fair trying to compare the fighting ability of a world class wrestler against Rickson or other jiu jitsu people. This was pre internet, pre ufc 1. Wrestlers had no idea about any of the maneuvers or positions of bjj. Simply put, it is a honda accord against a Lambo in a street race but the Honda driver is the only one who knows the course. Shultz had him cradled for 20 minutes. Thats what a wrestler does so basically jj fighter is never at any risk other than getting ragdolled.

[@everythingismediocre]

Mr. President, it's an honor.

[@mubarkqardas46]

Rickson knew better than to allow strikes eh?

[@VinchenzoC]

That son-of-a-gun! I didn't know he had jujitsu training when he faced Goodridge! Did anyone know? Not that he necessarily needed it. I always wondered why Schultz didn't stay in the UFC and just dominate.

[@michaelb1761]

He was head wrestling coach at BYU, and they told him he couldn't fight professionally and continue coaching at BYU.

[@straightgangstamack]

I just learned that in the past year or so. 3 years training with Pedro. Would have thought his jiu jitsu presence would have been more obvious.

[@secprosinc]

Fascinating

[@genghiskhan1836]

Hickson gangster#1 been doing his diaphragmatic/hyperventilate breathing for years. Checkout documentary choke

[@jimmyr419]

Such a cool story 🙏🏽

[@afnanbogey]

Legends

[@cnbrauns]

Awesome story

[@superlyger]

SAKURABA would have been interesting.

[@LytesOutMMAHistory]

Saku was on another level…. There was just something about him and the Gracie’s….

[@Steven-rp8zo]

Folk style catch wrestling has great submissions but they neutered it by taking all those away so it would be safe for kids to do in competition.

[@jonmoris9354]

love shultz but i disagree wirh bjj being the best stand alone art id say its the weakest but when its combined with either judo or wrestling it becomes better, being someoone whos done all 3 judo bjj and wrestling i can tell you the gracies were not bjj guys there hybrid grapplers there blqck belts in judo good wrestlers and bjj experts so theres a little bit of misinformation on there part

[@mrtselfdefense4185]

How long have you been training each of those: judo, bjj, wrestling?

[@BirdDawg1]

Top left needs to keep it shut and listen.

[@Faraj20]

Tem que ensinar para os experts do video que ser finalizado no jiu jitsu significa ser desmaiado, morto ou ter uma parte do corpo quebrada. Aconteceu isso 2 vezes com o amigão aí. Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

[@theemperorcharlemagne]

CaCC Wrestling > Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

[@Faraj20]

@@theemperorcharlemagne Ok, but i don't think so.

[@1_Bad_Z]

Would have been interesting to have seen Judo Gene Le Bell vs Rickson. Gene trained under Wigan Catch Wrestler Karl Gotch. Karl trained with Billy Robinson who trained the Sakuraba aka The Gracie Hunter.

[@lelomendes4203]

NINGUEM VENCEU RICKSSON NINGUEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[@1_Bad_Z]

@@lelomendes4203 Fedor Randy Couture Bas Rutten Cain Velasquez In MMA Contra Rickson quien gana?

[@antondelacruz9362]

The gracies trained with judoka a lot but judo guys and catch guys had no experience with bjj. Sakuraba did well but when he fought the gracies, their moves had been all over the media for a decade.

[@1_Bad_Z]

@@antondelacruz9362 How come no one in Judo @ that time, was able to do what Sakuraba did against the Gracies?

[@mrtselfdefense4185]

@@1_Bad_Z In judo the perfect win is a throw. That's the main focus in training. One good throw ends the match.

[@Mtzblades]

Nobody wants to see you guys talk we want to see actual footage

[@GreenDistantStar]

"I let him reverse me." "I had him in a cradle for 20 mins." Mark, Rickson says you're the toughest guy he's ever rolled with, but I find these statements difficult to believe.

[@djrkavanagh5151]

You think an Olympic wrestler couldn’t hold down and JJ guy? Even if it is Rickson, it’s a world class Olympic wrestler. It’s not like they were transitioning from position to position. He held him in a cradle for 20 minutes. Then his hands got exhausted and that’s when Rickson took advantage. Did you listen to the story? They were deadlocked in another position the second time so he let him up. Have you ever grappled and got stuck in a position because the guy is just holding you there?

[@djrkavanagh5151]

I just noticed your profile pic is Rickson. I don’t know why I’m trying to change your mind lol. Nvm

[@GreenDistantStar]

@@djrkavanagh5151 Big props to Mark of course, Rickson gives him the biggest accolade possible. I really cannot see Rickson held in a cradle for 20 mins, sorry. I've been grappling since 1967, I have a little knowledge and expertise.

[@farzana6676]

@@GreenDistantStar Mark Schultz is like one of the best Olympic wrestler of all time. They are very strong in top position.

[@GreenDistantStar]

@@farzana6676 I wouldn't say he's one of the best Olympic wrestlers, and that's objectively true, plenty of others have a better claim to that. Yes, freestyle wrestlers have a good top game, we always have. But this claim of holding Rickson in a cradle for 20 mins, it's simply not credible. Rickson praises Shultz highly, and deservedly so.

[@BeyondPostal]

AWESOME interview!!! What a history here! Honestly, this is a testament to Mark's toughness... in NO WAY shape or form anyone else could last this long, even other BJJ blackbelts.. If Mark started training BJJ 10 years prior, he would destroy Rickson. Amazing.

[@LytesOutMMAHistory]

10 years????

[@robertosilva4781]

If Mark had trained Jiu Jitsu for 10 years, he wouldn't be such a high level wrestler. The same would happen if Rickson had only trained in wrestling. The great Jiu Jitsu fighters who were submitted by Rickson easily played the Jiu Jitsu game. I don't believe in "What if", things are as they are. I salute the great Mark for taking the fight and Rickson who is often disrespected and has such an incredible story. Anachronism often disrespects history. Here it cannot be the case. Greetings.