1x GRX 12speed Di2 Experiments

[@ridesofjapan]

FAQ (will update as necessary) Q. Can’t you use XT/XTR di2 derailleurs? A. For 11 speed no problem (I used that previously) but Shimano has not yet released any non-ebike 12 speed di2 MTB derailleurs. Q. What about the e-bike 12speed di2 m8150 RD? A. Will not pair with road shifters (to my knowledge, feel free to correct me) Q. What about the garbaruk cage? A. It’s made for the 11speed 817 RD which is 1x specific. Using that on this 2x 825 RD will cause the same clearance issues as shown in this video. Q. S-RAM? A. Don’t be silly now ;)

[@EnniodBleu]

The main difference between the 1x and 2x derailleurs is the parallelogram pivot angle. They change this to suit the cassette profile, ie the angle (or steepness of curve to be more accurate) all the gears make from small to big. This is why changing cage doesn't really work properly. The 2x parallelogram angle is just too shallow for big cassettes.

[@el3ktrik0]

And how about 12s cage from the e-bike XT Di2 ?

[@eto2352]

Every time someone 💩on SRAM, an angel gets their wings.👼

[@YuoTubeTobi]

and what about the RD-M8150-12 ?

[@DessieDoolan]

One of the best cycling channels out there!

[@ridesofjapan]

Let’s not go overboard 😅 But I appreciate the sentiment 🙏

[@DessieDoolan]

@@ridesofjapan I found your channel when looking for Di2 installation videos in 2019. Your 'How to use Di2 EW-RS910 bar end junction with ANY handlebar', got me out of trouble. Been coming back every since!

[@ridesofjapan]

@@DessieDoolan Very happy to hear that mate! 🙏🙏🙏

[@kawabus]

@@ridesofjapan I found your channel long ago searching for bleeding hydro brakes. A fan ever since!

[@jericonavalta1078]

There you go again... It's been a long time. 😮

[@Miekzz]

Good to see you again RoJ!

[@KoenMiseur]

Just ordered a bike with the new Di2 GRX 12-speed 2X, I think 2x is still king for Gravel and Road (and that bike is going to be my winterroadbike/gravelbike).

[@rickjamse7498]

keep sharing all of your experiments! I've been toying with this idea of di2 1x for a while and it's good to see the current state of things, as well as the different part combinations without having to pay for anything myself. This saved me already from the shimano spd cleat adapters

[@treyquattro]

all RoJ content is golden, and I learned something about Shimano 1-by and derailleurs too!

[@ds001a]

Great videos! The only complaint is that you should deliver new videos more often. You are one of my favourite youtubers. Cheers, Silver

[@robertm1552]

4 links on the chain. Good to see! That’s what I was taught but the variations out there on chain lengths is amazing to research. 🧐

[@pmckeown38]

Good to see you again

[@saxon1376]

Always love a upload on this channel , thanks for all the hard work

[@pieterbaert]

And as a Belgian I would recommend to give Classified a view. This off course means a dedicated hub or wheel and limiting you choice in cassettes. But as a 1x gravel solution with a large range, they really rock. And the shifting under load is genious. Don’t know about the weight though.

[@martinhotan8946]

Thanks for your cage workout !!! I tried to change and 11speed GRX from a 1x speed cage to a 2x - same story

[@BadaSkraw]

I appreciate your contributions to the community, try to answer the real questions everyone has 😆

[@Chunky246]

Slayer of Ratios.

[@JakeMay]

always love these vids, particularly from a fellow video maker's perspective - lots to learn!

[@howlinhauler]

I see ROJ, i click. Bike geekery at its best. cheers

[@oli4swgoh646]

What a great day when a video drops! More please, also rides and stories! I will come to japan in august and have already rented a bike to ride around. I already checked your older videos about riding in japan, it is going to be fun (anf hot, very hot)

[@davidide1525]

Love the videos ! I remember a video of traveling on the train to ride elsewhere, I am going to look that up. Fun videos , please keep them coming .

[@ThunderStruckMTB]

Always a good day when I see you released a new video!

[@christofs-a1834]

Welcome back good sir! 🙋

[@LukeRichardson1981]

Great video as always. I agree with you entirely on having a different experience between road and gravel, which is why I will never convert my gravel bike to 2x or my road bike to 1x. They both work perfectly as they are for what I use them for.

[@hmcps89]

Try to use a long cage from a 12 speed MTB derailleur, I've done the 12spd XTR cage without the wolf tooth, works with no clearance issues or detriment to shifting quality on a 10-45 cassette. Also the carbon piece is nice bling.

[@thedownunderverse]

I wonder if this would fit on a 105 Di2 derailleur

[@stephanerodier5212]

@hmcps89 is it the cage found on this XTR RD: RD-M9100-SGS ?

[@TheRayDog]

I applaud any and all experimentation to get a desired outcome, bravo. But I think 2x on gravel, especially when electronic, is pretty darn good. Electronic is so silly smooth, fast, and effortless. Never mind the auto shifting of the front der possible with Di2, functionally making it a 1x18 or 1x20.

[@dp2619]

Thanks for the upload, been a long time. Appreciate it as always, take care of yourself! Peace. ✌🏻

[@SebastianSamulczyk]

I’ve been doing sort of the same with Shimano GRX 400, but when the money became no issue, I’ve went straight to SRAM Eagle derailleur paired with Force Shifters and 11-50 12 speed cassette without all that hassle you had to go through… Never looked back!

[@outtatrex]

Welcome back buddy!

[@diegoeleazar9154]

Thank you for your service.

[@rick_1968]

Brilliant! Keep this content coming, please(peace)

[@PedroDusso]

Good to see you!

[@AlbaTech]

For me, range was more important than 12 speeds so I did the XT cage mod to my 11sp 1x Di2 GRX with the 51-11 cassette and without a hanger extension and I have had zero problems. I also await the proper 12sp 1x GRX for that extra bit of top speed with a 51-10 but at least I now have an acceptable range in the meantime.

[@thedownunderverse]

What if it’s 13speed? 😝

[@AlbaTech]

@@thedownunderverse 12 or 13 speed, it doesn't really matter. As long as they offer a 51-10 cassette range at the very minimum.

[@Glazgoooo]

Missed you, man!

[@Verysimpleyetverydifficult]

Welcome back!

[@slayermtb_7848]

Used to be a Shimano guy myself but it is hard to beat the versatility of the SRAM AXS . All my bikes now have SRAM and I can quickly go from a 2x system on my Gravel bike to an Xplor and if I’m getting really spicy I go Mullet .

[@logojones96]

my king has returned 😄

[@ItsThatAaron]

Just throwing it out there for those who want to run 1x, clutched, with a road cassette (11-30), grx di2 RD RX825 works with no issues. Just need to note the b limit screw.

[@m.talley1660]

This makes one appreciate 1X derailleur architecture differences from 2X.

[@JCleggy]

I had to leave saitama and now I live in England. The roads are very rough and the speed limit is 100km on back roads with no shoulder. I miss having nice roads to ride on 😭

[@Dumbo3.1428]

One can easily modify the shadow arm by filling off a little material on the index nose so that it points more vertically down. This is often times enough to create sufficient space between the upper pulley wheel and the cassette. In rare cases it becomes necessary to swap the b tension screw out for a slightly longer one

[@mtthwng]

you could try an aftermarket 9 or 10 tooth pulley. That might allow you to clear the derailleur with the MTB cages.

[@don_sharon]

Simply awesome.

[@ynie1]

Welcome Back!

[@Jalfred92]

11-40 is such a great touring cassette, and most road mechs can do it with an extender, the 42s seem a tooth too far!

[@tommyo_o3897]

Love this videos.

[@metalburstaudiofreak7942]

For the cassette:sram apex 11-44 hg hub 12 speed,for the noise on the big ring back,just put the front ring on the inner side of the crankset and you will reduce the chain line and the noise will be gone!

[@feedbackzaloop]

That seal you mangled is actually a thrust type bushing preventing cage from rubbing against the main body. And the worst of it - it is not sold seperately, only together with the spring in very limited instances. It doesn't even have an official part number! Once it's gone, only salvaging from another similar derailleur might save you. Or 3D printing, of course

[@ridesofjapan]

Nope, it’s available (I bought an extra myself after this video myself) Part number Y5PV24000

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@ridesofjapan wait, since when?! That's really good news because it hasn't been a case with XT, SLX etc documents I had at hand. And I was too naive to check XTR🤦‍♂ Still weird they call it a seal when there are two huge holes for the spring right next to it...

[@mgreene888]

Ha ha ha! I am not alone in my idiocy I did exactly the same thing earlier this week. I too twisted the cage the wrong way and bent the spring and crushed the plastic washer. My experiment is 11 speed RD-M8050 medium cage to long cage swap. For anybody trying this, when mounting the new cage make sure that everything is in alignment before tightening the main screw that holds the cage on the clutch - then turn the derailleur over so you can see where the spring hooks onto the cage and make sure to twist the cage in the direction that the hook on the end of the spring is holding the spring against the direction of rotation. If you go the wrong way like our buddy Mr Rides (and me) the spring will slip out of the cage and bend itself as shown. Good information that the spring and washer are available as spares - I assumed that they werent and reused the damaged pieces anyway - so far it seems to work as normal. Mounting on the bike today.

[@ridesofjapan]

Haha... it just now hit me as watch this video back that I twisted the wrong way!! I swapped the cage probably 5 times before recording that segment, and several times after, and I never even thought that might have been the case! Doh!!! 😂 Cheers and good luck with your bike!

[@mgreene888]

@@ridesofjapan Super frustrating to get the last step of a DIY fix and screw everything up! Always entertained by your vids😆

[@mgreene888]

@@ridesofjapan I forgot to mention that I did mount the modded derailleur and so far all is good! (I re-ordered the damaged parts just in case though

[@manfrommontreal]

Awesome video!

[@jethroleung6745]

I really want to know if a GRX 12-speed di2 rear derailleur equipped with a GarbarUK derailleur cage, can it support up to 50T cassette ?

[@jansunda8155]

you are alive huray

[@andrejkiss]

I had a similar experience with the goatlink. Yeah it clears up to 52T, but shifting at 11-15 is less than optimal. In the end I went with Sensah SRX and now I have perfect shifting from 11 to 52 with 46 chainring.

[@matthewhuang3092]

Try a bigger lower pulley on the first offset cage. Might be enough to take up the slack ?

[@veganpotterthevegan]

There's also XD and XDR hub bodies/cassettes. I run e*thirteen XD cassettes on my gravel and mountain bike. They work well with shimano and SRAM chains, are very light and have replacable upper and lower clusters

[@maciekmachowski9021]

While in experimentation mode - why not try XT Di2 derailleur (RD-M8150-12) with proper 1x cage? This model is eBike only according to Shimano, but it is a 12 architecture with SD-300 cables so it should work (?)...

[@ridesofjapan]

It will not pair with road shifters according to the comparability charts from my understanding.

[@vitaliidiachenko]

as far as I know RD-M8150-12 also does not support charging and would not work with grx di2 battery

[@Kobylad]

Commenting for algorithms and because every upload pauses my day till its done 🥲

[@w00t3r]

My dream is a 52T front 10/11-52 cassette

[@RickRolling-tc7vb]

Thanks Tobias, that was interesting to watch. I wonder what the future holds? Maybe one day we will be beyond chains and dangly things, and will be pedalling a generator to drive a hub motor with infinite gears, or something equally bizarre. Look at the effect the quartz watch had on the mechanical watch industry, which also had lots of gears and chains and dangly things....

[@MatthewLister]

Lovely stuff!

[@carlopoli9067]

Good to see you again, Roj. In your opinion, is it worth replacing my Ultegra 9200 Di12 (50/34 and 11-32 Dura-Ace cassette) with this new GRX? The purpose would be to lighten my bike (Bianchi, mod. Specialissima 2022) which, although expensive, is heavier than the old 2016 model with rim-brakes. Thanks in advance for your opinion!

[@ridesofjapan]

To save weight? Than No, GRX will be heavier. Just to be clear, you mean ultegra 8170 right? (9200 is dura ace). Also think you mean 11-34 cassette? No 11-32 12speed cassette available from Shimano.

[@carlopoli9067]

@@ridesofjapan Thank you for the kind reply🖖🙏

[@Wiroe]

A b-link that extends a bit more downwards rather than backwards might be a thing to try, only if they existed

[@cosmicredeemer3109]

It’s giving “EARLY ROJ DAYS!”

[@michiganstate149]

I know this video is for Di2, but this same issue I was able to just use a 12s GRX derailleur with a 10-50 Garbaruk cassette, Eagle xx1 chain and my cable GRX 11s shifters. Flawless shifting. Not sure why you can use that 12s mech for the 11s shifters, but that must be a Di2 thing only.

[@jasonrodwell5316]

I run 2x with a 10-45 cassette and shimano 8120 xt 2x rear derailluer, an 11 speed 3x mtb front derailluer, and grx crankset. Larger cage, but another potential fix is using larger jockey wheels and b screw tension. I also have a hanger extender. My derailluer will take a 16 tooth for tension pulley and 14 tooth for guide in a shimano cage. I use the nzxt sram narrow wide jockey wheels. I am going to be converting it to grx 12 speed di2, so I will have to wrestle with these issues. Will need a road link too. But my chain has tension and reaches every gear.

[@shr779]

Another video! Woohoo!

[@icorlaiti]

To make the MTB jockey work you need a bigger pulley wheel on the bottom and a smaller one on top. You may need to cut the safety bridge of the jockey.

[@SpaceIsBiG44]

heLLo, heLLo Question about the Di2 1x12 - drop you mentiond: i can't find anything about this. What do you know about it? Great channel, thanks for your work and inputs :) VeLoForLife!!

[@gsastuto1123]

Sugino 'Capacity Expander' works better than the roadlink. Almost as good a 12s specific derailler if it ever happens. Anyway - they cost more than a Di2 FD, so best solution would be 2x12 which in the end would be lighter unless you go for the mega-pricey 900 series M cassettes or aftermarkets...

[@tristanocristofoli9848]

What rumours have you heard about the 1x GRX rear derailleur? Great vide @ridesofjapan

[@dahonkie]

Hey Ho! I tried the Rotor 11-39 with a Ultegra 12spd and the roadlink a few months ago. Didn't work at all, i think the shifting ramps are not compatible.

[@ridesofjapan]

Good to know 👍

[@SHWELL11]

Ive watched a few gravel races and the riders had that GRX system and I got used to the sound of the actuation and shift.. In the begining I couldnt take it, then I realized I wasnt noticing it anymore.

[@McLooSK]

Hi, the answer is RD made for ebike RD-M8150-12 + shorter cage (GS) from Deore XT RD-M8100-GS. Anyway I would try the cage from 1x mechanical GRX RD - the GS version made for 10-45 cassette.

[@jamble7k]

will that derailleur pair with road shifters?

[@jamble7k]

i wish they would bring out a di2 12sp mtb comes out for normal bikes (not ebike only)

[@matttiggerward6147]

Have a look at Garbaruk, they make a cage for the Di2 GRX derailleurs for a 1x setup

[@ridesofjapan]

It not made for converting 2x derailleurs though, you will end up with the same guide pulley clearance issue unfortunately.

[@hmcps89]

Have you tried swapping in the 2x variants of the GRX 12speed cages in place?

[@MartinSteno]

Thank you for being a brave man trying to modify things. I hoped you showed us how the set up was without the front derailleur. Which shifters are you using and how is it wired? Thanks

[@ridesofjapan]

12speed shifters are wireless and you can use any of the dura ace/ultegra/105/GRX they all work the same. (On this bike it’s the ultegra shifters) Cheers!

[@glennoc8585]

Try the original derailleur with the new b link but only take 3 links so ,are the chain is 1 link longer. I've found on the larger cassettes and 2x derailleur with a 1x the slacker chain worked smoother.

[@sergioahuirbretones]

I'm using GRX 820 SGS (mech). For such cage lenght, Direct Mount is not used anymore by Shimano (as it happened in MTB). My guess is that maybe looking at this hanger and the relative position of the first linlk of the parallelogram (more vertical, slmewhat), you could find an option. Seems that it's mounting screew unit (MPN Y3FW98020) won't be compatible at all :(. Does Garbaruk's RD cage offer any disctinct to what you've tried? Regards, thanks for sharing your exploration.

[@LOZUPONEJ]

I assume 1x coming out will have the battery in the rear derailleur like SRAM

[@MHT90s]

Did you check the Garbaruk setup? That pulley setup could work

[@ridesofjapan]

Only for 1x derailleurs. You’ll end up with the same issue on the 825 I reckon.

[@Nahhnope]

What chain wax are you using nowadays? Video maybe?

[@charliecook6909]

Can't you just use an xtr/xt di2 rear mech and cassette?unsure what the compatibility is with shimano

[@ridesofjapan]

On 11speed yes. No 12speed MTB available (yet)

[@charliecook6909]

@ridesofjapan ah thats annoying , love your persistence to try make the grx work 👌 hopefully shimano sort out some di2 12speed mtb stuff soon

[@erikpedersen6212]

I had the exact same experience when I wanted 1x 11-40 om my Ultegra rx (the one intended for 2x). I bought the cage from the XT m8000, considering my self a genius! Alas, I was not. So I bought the Wolftooth link and it worked brilliantly. Keep it simple, stupid.😂

[@galenkehler]

I did the same, swapping the cage off an SLX derailleur onto my RX and that fouled up fast :)

[@alexanderh.9230]

Very nice, thanks :)

[@notpablo8369]

Bike room update?

[@pmcmpc]

There are some fairly decent 12s 11-40 cassettes on AliX now. I suspect that will work with 50/34 .... 11-40 50/34 was super popular on 11s.

[@thedownunderverse]

Links? Brands??

[@matstephens4251]

What Panaracer tires were on the display bike?

[@ridesofjapan]

Gravel king R

[@jeffservaas]

To save weight on the casette, perhaps the new Garbaruk 10-44 12s and a SRAM freehub body?

[@ridesofjapan]

that's made for flat-top chains. I've put my name down for an HG+ cassette, finger crossed that will happen.

[@kentwang0037]

I wander if you can put a 2x up front with 48/31, I run a 11-40 back with 48/31 front atm. Can't do such thing for 12 speed 2x atm because there's no cassette available. But now if you can shift up to 45T with the 2x rear derailleur, worth a try?

[@eoinkearns9615]

Love the tee shirt, who makes it?

[@ridesofjapan]

Safa Brian merch

[@Di2_GP]

14:10 Am I seeing this right??? Did Shimano finally started using Torx screws instead of Y security screws?

[@ridesofjapan]

Had to go and double check… unfortunately not torx, they do look different from my DA mech though 🤔

[@Di2_GP]

@@ridesofjapan I knew it wasn't like Shimano to use some standard screws :-) They look like 5-Lobe Pin TX security screws, also known as pin TORXplus®, 5 point Torx or pentalobe screws. Still security screws, but different :-)

[@olivierhenrat5881]

Hejsan! Sorry for going off-topic slightly but are you able to comment on the long term results (shifting performances and durability of the RD) for a 11 speeds set-up with 11-46T cassette paired with a stock Di2 RD-RX817 in 1x config? I have been searching the net and your channel for any info without any luck. I can see you used a XT RD on your former Open but I am wondering how it would pratically work with a GRX Di2 as I read it should, in theory, work. Tack på förhand!

[@ridesofjapan]

Like you say, in theory should work even though it outside of spec. But I never used the 817 so I can promise anything.

[@olivierhenrat5881]

@@ridesofjapan Tackar! I'll be looking further then. Someone, somewhere must have tried that combo so I do not have to risk my own RD! 🙂As Wolftooth wrote "Exceeding the capacity limitation [31T] can cause the derailleur to be ripped off of the bike. " That does not sound too fun...

[@jonathanwoo6597]

Lol. Experimenting with Shimano parts out-of-spec is fun. Shimano has a 12-speed Di2 RD for eMTB (RD-M8150-12). Do you think the cage from that unit might work? 😆 I recently put a cage from a 8150 RD onto a 9250 RD so that I could run a 11-36 cassette on the 9250. It works like a charm. When the experiments work it's very satisfying.

[@ridesofjapan]

Unfortunately I don’t think that works since the 8150 uses the 12speed mechanical MTB config with 13t pulleys. So I think I would run into the same clearance issue if not even worse :)

[@awptechnical]

I'd be very interested to know how you are finding the new Panaracers? What model are you using? I'm looking for a slick 35mm, been considering Rene Herse but would look at the GK if I knew how they feel.

[@ridesofjapan]

35 GK R. I find them fine for an all-round tire, similar to the old Gravelking slick... but looking way nicer ;) S

[@ciclomass]

you could still have messed with the b screw, with a di2 setup, you kinda have some room to go out of ideal adjustment, this would make the derailleur compensante the lack of tension on the highest gear, I could work, the draw back would be shifting getting slower

[@fettnies]

This should work with 105Di2 as well, given the same largest cassette cog specified by Shimano, right?

[@ridesofjapan]

@@fettnies I don’t know of the 105 cage is as long, It doesn’t have the big tension pulley the GRX have so call it identical. Obviously it lacks the clutch too so might not be ideal for the roughest off roading even if it works.

[@MehM3T]

why didn't you try like a sram force or apex set up with Ratio Technology 1x12s kit? with a cheap HG compatible aliexpress cassette it would be pretty easy imo. Theoritacilly, you could go 46T chainring with a 12s 11-42,44,46 at the back

[@JRmntain]

Hello my old friend 😊

[@metalburstaudiofreak7942]

put spacers among chainring and crank arm to reduse the chain line and noise...

[@morellish]

Any ideam or a guess, when 1x GRX might be released?

[@fabianotajiri8811]

hi! do you can testing with garbaruk grx cage?

[@ridesofjapan]

The garbaruk is made for the 1x RD-RX817. They will not work on the 825, it will be the same outcome as the offset cages in this video.