Jobs in FFXIV Keep Getting Simpler

[@RinBanana]

Download Marvel Strike Force for FREE now: bit.ly/3ZgquSJ to support my channel and unlock up to 17 total characters within the first 30 days of playing! Redeem the promo code HALLOWEEN to get free 100 shards for Zombie Iron Man, 600K Gold, 480 L2 Training Modules in Marvel Strike Force!

[@eolendes6432]

No amount of "ease of access" will ever justify healers having a 1 button rotation.

[@LtOuroumov]

I think healers are designed that way because of the various side mechanics like Astro's cards, Sage's addersting, Scholar's aetherflow, which are technically part of the "rotation" but in practice, it's still boring if you have a good party that doesn't need much healing. (At least when playing MSQ content.)

[@AaronthePedantic]

As a guy who heals on controller, I don’t want more buttons, and I don’t really feel like a rotation is necessary or would even be meaningful. I’ve got two cross hotbars worth already and the only free spot I have goes to the mind pot. Maybe it’s because I play Sage and WHM in savage, but I’m pretty grateful when we get to mechs like AP2/Rotten Hearts, Fuse Field, or Intermission where we can mentally catch our breaths, just keeping our spell spams and topping people off.

[@Riyshn]

​@@LtOuroumovAST was designed that way out of the gate to account for the cards, which also used to have much more going on as far as mental stack, but it always sucked even on old AST. Both the one button rotation* and halfcasts** were forced onto SCH/WHM in ShB in a move toward homoganization. * Note: not actually a combo/rotation that could be interrupted by needing to heal. Just multiple DoTs of different lengths/cast times to keep spinning. ** I'm actually in the camp that halfcasts were a net negative for SCH. Yes, it's numerically a buff, but we _already_ had a tool for movement and weaving in the form of Ruin2, with it's own conciderations to be made. We did not need to get both for free with every cast.

[@ChepsGaming]

​@@AaronthePedantic Idk... I play SGE and WHM as well with controller, but I would enjoy a more engaging gameplay. Rn it feels a bit lackluster, specially once you know the encounter. Playing SGE in TOP gets very samey.

[@Orih9]

Back in June, an interview regarding the oversimplification of jobs led to this interaction with director Yoshi P: "some fans remark that they 'don't think it's possible for them to make jobs any simpler than they are.' Thankfully, Yoshi-P is well aware of this sentiment, as is the rest of the Final Fantasy 14 team. In our interview with the developer, he promises that jobs like SAM 'won't be simplified any further...'" Yet here we are, 5 months later, with most jobs indeed getting more simplified. At this point, I feel that the combat design team seem to have an obsession with erasing nuance and simplifying job design and will only continue to do so patch after patch. Imagine thrifting an old, wooden coffee table. That coffee table has a lot of character, but also some wear and tear, so you decide to sand the table in an effort to remove that wear and tear, but rather than stopping once that wear and tear has been removed, you continue to sand down the coffee table, stripping it of all its character and personality. And even when you have a nearly frictionless tabletop, you keep going and continue sanding it down further and further. At what point do you no longer have a table left? I haven't played DT because the character and the personality of the jobs is so sanded down that it's no longer an enjoyable experience to me, and 7.1 has given me no reason at all to want to return. To make healer jobs at least a little more enjoyable to play, they could have tried to address the power gap of White Mage and Sage by doing things like reducing the cooldown of Presence of Mind to 60 seconds and reducing the cooldowns of Phlegma and Psyche to 20 and 30 seconds respectively. But no, all you get is to further inflate the already swollen potencies of your filler GCDs, which adds even more pressure to maximize DPS with every GCD cast I might add. What breaks my heart is that we absolutely could've had a healthy middle ground where jobs are very easy to pick up and play at a base level, but still have those elements of nuance and optimization that allow experienced players to push further and be rewarded with more dynamic gameplay as a result. But every patch makes it evidently clear that SE has no intention of achieving a middle ground. They do not want players like myself or others who enjoy gameplay nuance, choice, and decision making to continue playing their game.

[@DankTankXIV]

After the Dark Missionary change which I never thought would happen, I'm willing to cope about anything. We get our mana back in 7.3 👍

[@Caladir]

We won't.

[@Coreycry]

@@DankTankXIV 7.3 introducing.. auto-combo 🤡

[@shiro12okami69]

If more MP,only with significant Edge and flood potency nerf,but since they currently try to reduce weave heaviness I don’t think it will happen x)

[@Mesarthim]

Even just cutting carve and spit's cooldown by half would make things feel better, regardless if they have to shift potencies to make it happen. Other tanks have nice 30s or 60s cooldowns but DRK has... a 90s cooldown that you cannot reposition for teleport-to-middle bosses, a 2x charge 60s cooldown, and another singular 60s cooldown before returning to a 1-2-3. I didn't think they could make lower level dungeons even more boring but by the gods they managed to find a way with that blood weapon/delirium merge. Now you can get 3 whole swings even in ARR-HW content!

[@nikidelvalle]

I just don't understand why the devs don't let there be simple jobs and complex jobs. They need to make a range of jobs for each part of the mastery curve to appeal to a wide range of players, and it's also okay for some jobs to be a little better than others as a result.

[@drbiohazmat]

This is the best take imo. I see too many people who say the focus of the game should be mastering your job and doing endgame raids and such, but that alienates casual players and people who enjoy other content instead, or players who can't do complex jobs due to disabilities or not having the time and energy to train on a job. Having some jobs be simple and others be complex is best of both worlds. Simple jobs can be easy for lower skill players to use and even help with getting into harder content, but higher complexity jobs are great for high skill players' skill expression

[@SierenGreenwalt-wp3ub]

Because the simpler jobs would either do less damage to balance out their ease of use or be the only thing people play if the damage is comparable (i.e. why you see fewer NINs these days). Is what I would say... But then they released Pictomancer and that job is both cracked and simple so idk lmao 😂

[@C.Cer.]

I much rather have every job have depth, but have every job be allowed to be played brainless for less performance. think DragonKick MNK / Ice SAM, it's not optimal? but hey the choice is there. And if were talking proper rotation? most players press their buttons thoughtless in whatever order they feel like without uptime in mind. Making some Jobs purely simple and some purely complex? alienates a certain group no matter what. Have the players themselves be allowed to choose how far they could take a Job or not would be more ideal

[@TenchiSawada]

As sad as it seems party finder would start blocking jobs because damage. We already saw a microcosm of this with p8s before the nerf. Pfs were literally blocking mch, rdm and 1 more ( forgetting which one. And they were requiring double melee and all sort of stuff. If there is optimization people will try to game it. I DO think there shoild be more job complexity and players should be rewarded. I dont think there should be a huge gap in dps as dumb as that sounds.

[@undercoverspy123]

Because complex jobs in MMOS are just janky 9/10 times

[@jamesrusselleriii8284]

PvE: Every single role has to play exactly the same except with different animations PvP: Hey what would happen if we gave AST, RPR's teleport and an AoE 75% Heavy debuff on demand? Lol that'd be so dope, let's go for it.

[@SierenGreenwalt-wp3ub]

I fully believe the PvP and PvE teams aren't even in the same building for FFXIV lol

[@arthurdowney2846]

Job fantasy really shines through the PvP kits.

[@humanfighter6251]

PvP classes FEEL unique to play, I just love diving in as Dragoon or sneakily picking off people as Ninja

[@AdeptPaladin]

As a healer? Nope. Nothing changed, and I still don't have any desire to play it.

[@Bismarck9871]

Ast is my cope since it has the slight semblance of entertainment with the cards and like i said slight lol

[@masterost1994]

@@Bismarck9871 The cards was my favourite part before DT, now they're annoying. But I grant that a lot of people thought the old cards were annoying. Also there were no reason to remove dijurnal sect, other than risking other jobs being jealous of it's flexibility.

[@Envinyon]

I've been playing since late shadowbringers. The funny thing about many of the job changes I've seen since then is that many are initially praised. Quality of life is good. Not having "jank" is good. But then eventually people sour on the changes because having some difficulty in your rotation is what makes them fun. I've honestly learned that a lot of what people called "jank" is actually just like, having to think about your buttons at all. I keep seeing scholar being called janky for things like not being able to use dissipation and seraphism at the same time when that's clearly a designed thing that you're meant to play around. I honestly wish Warrior went back to its gap closer costing gauge and inner chaos consuming inner release stacks because that gave warrior any cooldown management at all as opposed to being nearly entirely on rails. The devs want to give players what they want because, in their experience, doing that is what makes the game better. But they need to realize that player demands shouldn't always overrule design intentions and sometimes the players don't actually know what they want. See the complaints about Bozja and now the demand for that exact style of content to see how fickle and shortsighted fans can be. The devs have wanted complexity, unique identities, some jobs to excel and fall short in different areas, but some players have pushed against that and they also happen to be the loudest. They're not all just casuals either. People that want braindead jobs so they can flex their FFlogs scores are absolutely a thing.

[@TheWickedWizardOfOz1]

As a SCH main who came in around the same time as you... what? WHY would anyone want to use Dissipation and Seraphism at the same time? They're both "nobody dies" buttons! I find it silly that we have two!

[@Riyshn]

​@@TheWickedWizardOfOz1SCH's capstone skills have always had an issue of clashing with eachother. Dissipation, Aetherpact, and Summon Seraph all directly conflict with eachother's use. And while it does make sense as part of the calculus of using Dissipation, that has it's own problwm of conflicting with _itself_ by giving us 3 stacks of Aetherflow but only buffing GCD heals, and also if those stacks are used before the fairy comes back then they don't contrubite to the gauge for Aetherpact. Also why the hell can't Seraph use some form of Aetherpact?

[@pittfail5896]

Rant incoming I’m ok with jobs being simple, I just want them to have more identity. I feel like the only differences we have on jobs now is how we earn and spend our gauge. There needs to be more uniqueness in terms of what a character can do. I realize that it may get more difficult to balance as time goes on, but we are making our jobs too similar. Most recent case? DRK losing plunge for the same ability that MNK and now DRG. How long until Ninja loses shikuchi for the same ability for the sake of balance? And on the other side of the balancing coin, giving jobs abilities to match what others have also complicates things for job identity. Every tank having gap closers is cool but now having one feels compulsory and losing it like DRK (I’m not lying when I say my DRK is level 60) is horrible. I’m just frustrated because I feel like there’s only 3 jobs: Tank, Healer, DPS

[@ErakirPompop]

When there's a 50 meter gap between you and your role's competition, you can always count on Square to give you a 10 meter bridge and pat themselves on the back.

[@AwwHeckASnek]

I didn't pick up Black mage to play a streamlined class, I picked it to have something to chew on and really work with to make as good as possible. Continual streamlining, smoothing, and simplifying of classes makes me less and less interested in playing the game.

[@Noel_Tamura]

I agree 100%. I believe that they're thinking that them dumbing down jobs makes the game more inclusive, which just isn't how any of this works. If you try to please everyone, you'll please no one as a result. I think that every role should probably have a difficulty scale which correlates with damage dealt. SMN shouldn't even come close to BLM damage if played properly as an example

[@Pitch04]

​@Noel_Tamura I agreed with that idea for the longest time but if you look at heavensward, which had drastic damage differences in jobs, jobs were outright banned from pfs and the games overall health was horrible because of it and other dev issues

[@zugetzuzu]

This is why I quit in 4~ weeks into DT. I want to heal but I don't want to have to literally lobotomize myself or only do blind prog to have fun playing healer (A had some hope for the game going in the right direction with the double sage dots which was swiftly crushed). At the end of EW I finally had gotten the hang of BM only for SE to remove complexity so I didn't want to play that. Samurai still didn't get Kaiten back so I refused to play that. Summoner got a new coat of paint but no real gameplay changes. Red mage was essentially the same EW. Tried picto and got bored after a few weeks (was pretty fun to remove aetherhues though but I knew it was going to get removed). Was going to level up Bard to max level and try it but I thought to myself "Why would Bard be any harder or more fun and what is preventing SE from making it more 'streamlined' in the pursuit of making it easier?" so I just quit. Managed to have fun in EW because I constantly swapped jobs whenever I got bored and ShB because I loved the old summoner and 2.5 full cast healers. Currently seeing what is happening I feel justified in my decision and that I made the right choice.

[@BahamutCeroX]

​@@Noel_Tamura You may not have been around for Heavensward when certain jobs were straight banned from prog because they just didn't do enough on the dos charts.

[@BenHyuga]

I was once a long time smn player. Played it from ARR - SHB. When Endwalker came around my class went from having some decent difficulty to play to being basically phys range with it barely having to cast. I would kill to go back to hw smn. I have since moved to drg but even tho removing two nastronds per min isn't too big of a deal I know 8.0 is gonna gut that job now.

[@C.Cer.]

The irony that SMN is labeled " Caster " when I as SAM Cast more times then SMN... perhaps not in total seconds of cast-time throughout an engagement? but its both funny and sad... I'm essentially half a Caster =u=;

[@lizardkip1663]

Im going to go on the opposite side, I personally think job simplification is a good thing TO THE EXTENT IT IS NOW, only a small amount of the playerbase would benefit from really hard jobs to play, and designing a job to be super hard to play at even a mediocre level just means the more casual playerbase would just be locked out of that job, but theres another level, if you are progging thru a new fight, very few, if any people would want to bring a super difficult job to a new difficult fight, and those few would after their partie's 137th wipe will start complaining how the game had a super big difficulty spike and all kinds of other stuff, I would rather all jobs be simple with a bit of a learning curve and fun to execute than having the thought over my head that "oh but this job does way more damage after you spend 3 months learning it" not to mention what many have said, that the simplification allows encounters to be much more complex, hell just look at the alliance raid that just released, the simplification lets even normal content have a bit more bite to it. Basically what Im saying is when you are watching the ultimate prog soon, try to think how many more times they could've wiped to damage checks due to a ludicrously complex job that they're playing because it can do more damage than other jobs.

[@Alix_Farin]

You're taking complexity to the extreme which isn't what's being asked for. If you watched his video from the other day, stormblood scholar is the perfect example. The decision on whether or not you can fit in a use of miasma 2 is a great example of complexity. If you don't do it, you're still doing an acceptable job. If you can pull it off, you're *excelling*. The floor can stay where it is and that's great! Jobs should be accessible. But, there should be opportunities to grow and shine and make decisions and sometimes those can fail. But still, the option is so much fun, no? If you're not comfy just don't press miasma 2 in a raid encounter, problem solved. No skin off anyone's back

[@lizardkip1663]

​@@Alix_Farin That I do agree with, complexity in optimization is totally fine so long as the floor is relatively similar, and I do think that's what they're going to go for in 8.0, but many people ask for there to be jobs that are way more complex to execute properly at a basic level, and that, to me atleast, is a bad idea, since if they do that and the damage is lower than simpler jobs, the vast majority will not play it since it's more work for a lesser result, while if the damage ceiling is higher by a large amount to compensate for it's difficulty, PFs (which is what a good chunk of the playerbase uses) will only really want that job for that slot in clear parties. Again, making a job designed to shut out people not able to keep up with it leads to a hardly used job, hell just look at EW BLM if you want proof of that.

[@Alix_Farin]

While I personally liked EW blm and think that there's a few examples that are better suited to the argument, I'm glad we could reach a middle ground. Keep on keepin on friend

[@thehighfolk]

Then there's me who has 5k hours in the game, mains summoner and still get my ass beat by midcore stuff xD. i appreciate simpler jobs. i find it hard to deal with mechanics that go kinda fast, which tends to be a lot of the newer stuff i think.summoner is the only job that lets me focus on the mechanics more than a rotation so i manage at least.

[@Sarantserel]

As someone who started in ShB and mained and loved DRG throughout it, even doing my first savage tier on it, I am sad to say that as far as I'm concerned, the job I loved is gone. EW already kinda sucked a lot of the fun out of the job with the introduction of the 2 min meta, since it meant that the more dynamic life usage to go with you 3 distinct damage CDs was gone in favor of just using it every minute, but the DT changes have just been the last few nails in the coffin. While the 2 minute meta might have made eye management trivial, DT erased that and didn't replace it with anything, jumps were replaced by pretty underwhelming "glide", Nastrond management was made simpler since Life went from being 30s with a 10s Nastrond to a 20s buff with 2s Nastrond. But now, with 7.1 removing two Nastrond charges, in addition to the rest, Life of the Dragon feels so empty, making me wonder why the Life Gauge is even still there. Not to mention that playing DRG below 80, your big 1min burst that comes with you Life is... a single Nastrond. After all these "ease of use" changes, we're left with a job that has no real resource management. While your burst are still busy, the filler between those burst is completely empty since the job's damage buttons are now solely cooldown based, there's no resource to build for your upcoming burst or dynamic life windows. As sad as I am to say, I no longer see myself playing DRG for the rest of this expansion. And I not holding my breath that they'll use all the space they gave the job to add anything meaningful in 8.0. People had the same hopes about EW SMN being at least a good new base to build up from, but it basically received 0 addition in DT outside of cosmetic ones.

[@jackwatson9617]

I'm pretty new and I like the simpler jobs more, but there absolutely needs to be jobs that are complex and benefit from skill expression woth higher results.

[@michaelc657]

They don't need higher results, they just need to exist. I've talked to plenty of BLM lovers who will love BLM even if it's not highest on the chart.

[@Kul_ZR]

just gonna pull the pin on the hot take grenade. FFXIV needs talents similar to the ones introduced in MoP or something to provide major augmentation, easy one for ten chi jin is one allows you to move while using it and another makes you stand still but deal more damage (maybe like 15% or so, numbers can be easily tweaked). TBN for DRK, one makes its a free mp cost, 25 sec CD, 15% damage reduction but doesn't give the free edge, the other costs mp but when it pops, the next edge or flood is free, has increased the potency, and is a guaranteed crit. I don't like the idea of some jobs being easy while others should be more complex cause someone's favorite job could get the axe like with summoner being so easy, its a slap in the face to those who mained and practiced its complexity before endwalker. Stormblood was my favorite version of DRK, but after the ShB rework, the job hasn't felt great despite being super easy to play.

[@C.Cer.]

Make jobs exciting/flavorful/satisfying/fun? & Content = amplified. But Make Jobs simple/bland/flavorless/boring? & we rely heavily on content... multiply this by the last patch or expansion you can recall any depth being added to your Job besides another (copy-pasted) shiny button with a sparkly affect that lacks half a braincell of engagement? and it gets worse, even more so when " how mechanic vomit something is " i.e raiding/high-end content? isn't even what the majority of the players statistically engage with. Players statistically 100% of the time? interact with " Jobs "

[@Noel_Tamura]

Actually a really interesting take. If general gameplay / combat is fun, any content becomes way more engaging without it having to be overly complicated

[@C.Cer.]

@@Noel_Tamura Most players who desire Jobs to be more satisfying? aren't demanding players to require a PHD degree to play Jobs from lv1... But if what a lot of players argue for " mechanical difficulty increase? " then Square shouldn't just do it at Ultimate/Savage which makes up only 5% at best of the total combat Content available? but also every Dungeon/Mobpack/Average Fate/MSQ/Roulette/Extreme/Alliance Raids etc, which won't happen cause it treads on Average players where as Job mastery can be made optional

[@ShikiRyougi05]

Honestly getting complex mechanics is not a good trade off for easy af jobs. One only affects high end content, the other every piece of battle content + mastering a job feels more rewarding than a random fight imo

[@Mystra]

Yeah the balance is strange. Easy jobs isn't the problem but mechanics for the sake of mechanics can be just in the way rather than fun

[@jucatrujillo8962]

The point of an mmo will always be its endgame, casual content is always irrelevant to performance.

[@Kp0p9305-x]

I even feel that those encounters are suffering, as right now, you might as well treat your class as a 'select a character' in an arcade cabinet and fight a battle that's completely agnostic to the job designs. Everyone is capable of being able to dodge attacks and stack with partners, but when's the last time you had to do something job specific like have a phys range kite an add around an arena?

[@ShikiRyougi05]

@@Kp0p9305-x very true.

[@ShikiRyougi05]

@@jucatrujillo8962 but even high end is worse for it...

[@Qorani_VT]

There are occasional issues where when you used old Superbolide, there could be a brief lag between you hitting 1 hp and the invuln applying itself. So like, if an auto attack hit you in the 1/4 of a second between you hitting 1 and going invuln, you'd just die.

[@alyssahoover3194]

So I'm a savagte raider GNB main, and I have to disagree with you a bit. I didn't have a problem with double down before, but the change actaully INCREASED cart management potential. Before, GNB's rotation had no creativity - it was all a strict rotation with no decision making. Now, when to use burst strike and hypervelocity to make sure you aren't entering a 2 minute with 3 carts, but always entering both your one minute and 2 minute with 2 carts, actually gives some interesting choices to make, especially with forced disconnects that are long enough to require a GCD lightning shot in play. It *does* make the job more accessibler, but I need to actually manage my carts now rather than just... do my rotation forever.

[@Bloomin]

The MCH changes are nowhere near enough nor the ones the job desperately needs. Physical Ranged in general needs a rework and at this point I don't think they will ever do anything about it until it gets so bad that groups are no longer taking the role. They are just not listening and not testing the game themselves at the office.

[@mintparfait]

I just wish there was a way to keep skill expression and difficulty while massively cutting down on button bloat. Even if jobs are technically easier now, I am much worse than I used to be. I just dont have the dexterity to be tip tapping halfway across my keyboard and 3 modifier buttons anymore. There was an attempt with Viper, which I appreciate. But they made it basically impossible to screw up and still felt the need to simplify it more. So I just dont know if its possible or if they're even capable.

[@Osteichthyes]

Half the video is good things and we're using clickbait titles "Jobs in FFXIV Keep Getting Simpler". Yeah, no. Why can't we be honest and just say "How the 7.1 Job Changes turned out"? Most "Ease of Use" changes are things that people have complained about for a while that can realistically be addressed, and even in the video "SAM and BLM have more choices". Title doesn't reflect that. We literally see the devs listening to feedback and making changes, but they aren't getting credit. TCJ was absolutely miserable to use in high movement fights, especially with the recent raid tier where burst would often align with movement heavy sections. The biggest criticism I have about the state of the game is that I think most jobs could use to be a little more busy during non-burst windows, and a little less in their burst windows. 4 jobs are ease of use. 2 jobs have more choices, while the vast majority have adjustments according to feedback. To say "Jobs in FFXIV Keep Getting Simpler", is not a balanced take. It's misleading and only furthers the narrative that the devs aren't listening and don't care, only catering to making the game as easy as possible. It's so hyper focused on one aspect that it misses the forest for the trees. If jobs were to become more complicated, would a video be made about how damaging it is to the bulk majority of the userbase? I don't think so, because even in this video when it was done, it was an afterthought, said once and not mentioned again. I'm really starting to lose faith in our content creators integrity. It's becoming very arrogant, borderline narcissistic. Not just in this video, but other videos (Meoni encouraging the devs to lie about the contest) and podcasts where it feels like viewpoints outside of the top percentile just don't matter (State of the Realm, Mogtalk). I have never felt less interest in beinga part of the community than now, and it's not because of the jobs. It's because everything is just drama and hyperbolic rhetoric. It's miserable.

[@Gelwain]

If you want all that money from casual players, its a good idea. Same with new players. For vets who want more from the same game 10+ years later? Not so much. The answer will lie ultimately in sub retention/gains over time. If they make more money, it was a good idea. If the make less money, it was not a good idea. That's all SE execs care about, so that's the metric I'll use to make my determination, because "what I want" as a player doesn't really matter. XIV is the breadwinner for SE. We're not going to see risks anymore, unless the risks are "how much of the budget can we strip from the game while retaining profitability?" I've voted with my wallet, after 10 years of a sub fee. They made plenty off me already.

[@Mijeme123g]

Did you really just do a patch notes reading 2 weeks after it came out?

[@zaytex5000]

I love the developers continuing the march of removing skill expression, nuance, and points of failures with jobs. Let's just make everything near identical to something else (i.e tanks/healers in a nutshell) and as smooth as possible with no friction. I just do not comprehend why jobs are not allowed to be unique and different to each other, even if that means the inevitable tier list meta every parser seems to mald at. Yet, as long as every job is viable then the balance doesn't fucking matter unless you are a world first/speed kill or prog group - which at that point, you are

[@TifaTakeuchi]

I think the only thing I would complain about with Dragoon is that the AoE combo steps need to unlock earlier. Only getting the 1st step at level 40 is just not on! Then we have to wait until 62 and 72 for the other 2.

[@Corer_]

What's the point of 3rd cartridge if DD costs 1 cart.

[@michaelc657]

The third cartridge was honestly a bad idea and I think they're just trying to fix it without admitting their mistake and going back.

[@SniperYanda]

I wish you could toggle off the raise from RDM and get a damage increase for it, it feels a bit deflating that it's harder to play/optimize than PCT but won't ever touch that level of damage, even if you don't end up using those raises. Not sure why they're even in the same role, the gap between PCT/RDM damage at 80th percentile in this Savage tier is 1853rdps while the gap between Tank, Healer, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS's best and worst classes combined is 1950rdps.

[@Pets_Cats]

Having a raise is far less useful in harder content too where body checks are frequent. Me having verraise does nothing when the boss wants 8 people alive

[@Braxophone]

YOSHI P GIVE ME BACK VIPER DEBUFF AND MY LIFE IS YOURS

[@javi7636]

I'm pretty happy with most of the changes, I'm only indifferent for jobs I haven't played yet. I think it's weird to praise things like increased healer range but then not liking Ten Chi Jin no longer canceling on movement. To me the old TCJ was a _major_ friction point, as my favorite things about Ninja are its versatility and mobility. The stationary TCJ made everything screech to a halt for a 3-second channel and was especially bad in dungeon pulls, where you need to put Doton down amidst chaotic aoe's. Similarly, as a healer main I am ecstatic about the Superbolide change! No more wasted Essential Dignity, or Benediction, or Excog. The "reduce to 1 hp" is very interesting on paper, but in most contexts (meaning, for most of the playerbase) it was just a frustration that added no enjoyment. The thing is, I agree that most jobs are too streamlined right now. But that goes hand-in-hand with current encounter design, which I also have a problem with. Dawntrail _mainstream_ content has leaned more and more into chaotic messes and extended memory tests, seemingly as a way to counteract job streamlining. But this has increased the skill requirements for everyone without a way to opt out, unlike jobs where you can always switch to an easier option. My husband hates half of all Dawntrail bosses because of this--and the only respite he gets is whatever time spent on the floor before the next Raise. My point is, the devs need to balance for lots of kinds of people, and we're in a particularly rough spot in that regard. Not _every_ ease of use change is bad. Here's hoping we don't have to wait too long for things to get ironed out.

[@SuperTacocat]

I would be more incensed by the Double Down change if you didn't have to plan around Bloodfest in new ways. I think mostly what this change accomplishes is making GNB more flexible, rather than stripping it of its forethought. The way I see it, job design at large is boring not specifically because it's easy, but because it's devoid of interactivity. I can actively solve the problem of having too many carts for my 2 minute by dumping in advance, where sometimes you simply couldn't generate enough carts for NM window in fights like DSR or TOP depending on phase pushes. Punishment is good, but punishment with agency is better. Also I would argue this iteration represents release Gunbreaker's design philosophy better than EW's design does.

[@YawleyG]

"Double Down" changed to "Down."

[@JohnPaul-nb5iu]

'Down' Changed to 'Down syndrome'

[@C.Cer.]

" Triple Down " when? XP

[@GreatYamatanoOrochi]

I think the disappointment for me is how 6.1 patch was one of the best ever non-expansion release patches and 7.1, which came after 7.05 (no 7.08) significantly underdelivered on the expectations. The balance is absolutely atrocious; PCT is still absurd, stronger than BLM while being easier to play and having shielding and healing for the party, whereas BLM literally has none of those because it's supposed to be the crazy high DPS one. AST is still kilometres ahead of other healers. DNC is still clunky because of Tillana recast.

[@C.Cer.]

Patch 6.1 was the " Worse " for me.... because of " Hissatsu: Kaiten " removal along side other simplifications with Samurai that could account as Quality of Life? but it made it that much dumber to play Samurai... as well as the implementation of Auto Crits that on its initial release? was terribly under-performing, only for them to hot fix it? leading to me always critically striking which is great on paper... but now I just never feel like I crit-strike at all cause I always crit-strike...it never since then felt special, it has always felt weightless to me

[@Riyshn]

The recast isn't the big problem with Tillana, it's the +50 gauge in the middle of Tech already giving you unpredictable amounts. It really needs to be eithera Saber Dance Ready buff or get the MNK/Brotherhood treatment.

[@scaper12123]

The thing that annoys me with the BLM changes was that the buffs to Flare, Despair, and Ley Lines by themselves would have been great and helped bridge the gap between BLM and PCT, something that I hope we can all agree needs to happen if Picto is meant to be the new baseline for casters. But that Enochian nerf... it's just 1% and overall it's a damage gain, but think about it: they did not need to do that. Why did they do that? What is the purpose? Is there some fourth-dimensional chess happening? Or are they scared of making the class too powerful? Or could they just not know what they're doing.

[@Sazandora635]

I can't help but feel a touch paranoid about the fact that the biggest amounts of pruning to the jobs conveniently coincided with the timeframe where Yoshi mentioned work on the mobile version of the game started.

[@ek9750]

nope they've been dumping down jobs since shadowbringers and the mobile version will be its own separate game made on a different engine so it wouldn't make any sense that mobile affects the main game

[@Toad-yv8ko]

as irrelevant as the SMN changes are, it's got to be the most indicating for the future. Gone are the days of "5 minutes to learn the job, 15minutes to master it" Now it's 5minutes for both I feel like SMN in particular is a good indication that they want stuff to get easier and keep it easier and didn't do stuff in preperation for 8.0. That's been a theory with SMN all this time: "yeah it has to few buttons but it's clearly a clean slate that will get more stuff in 7.0 and 8.0!"... and then it didn't at all

[@Max58183]

I don't know what "foundation" they are preparing for 8.0 patch to improve job identity. But with each new patch leading to it, all jobs just keep getting more boring. I cannot do DF anymore simply because playing the job is not satisfying anymore. I might as well mash random buttons and still be at the finish line within reasonable time. Failure states are what makes gameplay exciting. If no matter what you do, you still win, what is the point? It is funny how before DT Yoshi mentioned that FF14 is too stress free and that's not good. New patch comes around, they make a lot of jobs even more stress free. Okay...

[@pittfail5896]

Jobs are too similar for me, differences used to be more pronounced. Tanks? All the same, just fancy gauges to play with. Buffs are identical, with the same effects just spread out differently. And honestly the same goes for healers now too. I already haven’t played since the beginning of EW. I’m not afraid to wait until jobs feel unique again.

[@bnhearyza4767]

I don't really think jobs have gotten much easier since SHB. Some have, certainly, but I think most have stayed around the same. SHB really was the turning point of job design and difficulty, and I think the majority of players, both casual and hardcore, are fine with and enjoy most jobs how they are today (except maybe the healer role). Personally, I think most DPS jobs are fine and offer a variety of gameplay, uniqueness, and difficulty, but Warrior/Dark Knight and the entire healer role are in dire need of adjustments. They've kept their word on the design changes they wanted DT to have, so I'm quite curious and optimistic about what they will come up with for jobs in 8.0!

[@pulzie8790]

Darn now i can't scare my sprout healers anymore with Superbolide.

[@MagiusNecros]

Meanwhile FFXI and Dragon Quest X go brr

[@Minizor27]

in a game with such scripted encounter design, such as xiv, unique decision-making and planning per job is where depth and replayability blossoms. they can make content design as difficult as they want, but enjoyment and variety will always be meaningfully bottlenecked by that layer of execution. Single down is incredibly disheartening for me.

[@karjar5742]

I actually came to the opposite conclusion, while sharing your premise. The extremely scripted encounters and limited nature of interacting with bosses doesnt leave much room in creative job design. Attacks cant be dodged, bosses cant be incapacitated, animation length and attack range does not matter, combat has been reduced to a single output, which is dps, there is zero room for utility. So bosses are tightly designed around that dps output. Every job needs to be able to dance the dance and meet the binary dps/tanking/healing requirement. So realistically, what can you do besides just making every class essentially do the same thing, except in a slightly different order. And with that homogenous design philosophy, you cant reasonably make some classes meaningfully more difficult (and imo interesting) by giving them more damage, as that would heavily tilt the meta in a game where classes are measured by one output. Im really curious on how theyll handle the job identity overhaul with 8.0. I would absolutely love them to improve upon this, but realistically I dont know how theyd go about it.

[@Sonyaxoxo]

thing is on the base level i don't think any xiv job is hard to use, they already felt very same-y and now i don't feel anythign when swapping jobs in the same role sob emoji

[@Jahkrel]

Yeah i gotta say I don't like the TCJ change. I get people don't like accidentally cancelling it cause it snapshotted their movement. But for me i would rather see it plant u in place with no option to move at all (give it knockback immunity if its necessary) to keep to cool flavour of it while making it function as intended. Big L for me. Let me make decisions in my characters kit squenix I hate this design trend.

[@yeoldpubman]

Personally I would have gone with a Ley Lines solution where you have a teeny tiny little circle that gives you the buff. Accidentally twitching won't break the combo but you also can't *really* move around while using it.

[@Jahkrel]

@@yeoldpubman That's a great solution too. I just want the spirit preserved and that does it.

[@Redfield253]

BRING BACK 'DRAGON SIGHT'!!! 😭

[@1Kelvar]

Look i like simple i believe all classes should be able to be played by all people, My issue is class identity too many classes are the same but different animations and honestly looking at some rotations for classes like mch, Mch went from being one of the easiest classes to now have a mile long rotation thats overly complex ive noticed similar rotations with basically all classes minus summoner. But again back to my orginal point i think all classes minus maybe sam and ninja need reworks so they have their own identities and unique playstyles that dousnt mean they should be ball grindingly difficult maybe have some curve to it but nothing that would make it usable for only the "Git gud" elitests

[@letherobr3178]

Thankfully it's, SE doesnt know how to insert unique features without them going bad in end game content, so let it be

[@eksdii8824]

BLM does good damage but picto is still overtuned so I'm not sure what they plan to do about that. The non standard rotation will get butchered because that's just not what they want for the job. Especially with their new fancy lvl 100 spell that was made to pull you into standard is getting left in the dust. Don't get me wrong I feel like there should be some regulation on stuff like the 100% instant cast rotation or the flare flare flarestar aoe rotation but I just hope they do not gut all of the nonstandard stuff that makes the job stand out. Little optimizations like these are a form of expression which is being removed so everyone can just do their cookie cutter 6xF4s and go home. Rant over....

[@Coreycry]

This video comes when Azurite is posting "which tank to pick". lmao my poor dude it doesn't matter all classes play the same, only the animation changes 😂

[@roset1234]

i switched from ninja to dark knight some time in 7.0. before switching i did arcadion, ucob uwu and tea all on ninja. Im really mad about this change, imo it ruins how fun the burst was, having to pick a spot to tcj during it just felt so cool, now its just a boring skill

[@cordrac]

Does the holy cast time result in faster stun immunity ?

[@humanfighter6251]

21 jobs is a little far fetched, it's like 4 jobs with different costumes...None of them are unique

[@lvl21bellsprout92]

Ffxiv will never be as complex as ffxi, to busy trying to be wow😅

[@Alix_Farin]

If we're going down this route either just get it over with and make our bars look like pvp or actually follow through and rework classes in 8.0. I wish they were transparent, I hate this wishy washy will they wont they

[@TobinatorTx]

Of course jobs get simpler! They will get even simpler in 8.0! Because 98% of the playerbase cant even play their job right now! We will end up with 4 buttons per job, 1 does dps, 1 does mit, 1 does healing and if we're lucky 1 is an ogcd to weave for fun

[@seriodenoyarohi7403]

I played GNB this tear and I don't like the change for basically all the reasons you listed. There are enough simple jobs. Let us have some that are actually punishing. And DRG is my favourite DPS and I mained it in EW. I hate those changes even more. Don't just tear a hole in my burst phase and try to patch it up with potencies elsewhere. That's simply not satisfying.

[@herebejamz]

Even without remove buff macros, Superbolide can just panic troll sprouts. Probable explanation . Edit: Also, at least Starry Muse now has parity with Ley Lines. lmao

[@zullie9614]

Honestly they need to stop adding new jobs and focus on making the current jobs unique and fun.

[@DrakeWurrum]

I don't think rotations need to be complex for the gameplay to be deep. DPS rotations aren't hard - boss mechanics are. Doing DPS rotations without failing boss mechanics is a form of skill, but that still mostly comes from the mechanics - NOT the rotation. Most abilities are just "This deals damage!" There's differences in how much potency and how the ability is limited: cooldown, resource cost, charges, combo actions, etc. Sometimes those abilities have a secondary effect/requirement: range, applies a buff/debuff, generates a resource, positionals, etc. But... you still have like 15 buttons saying "I do damage!" Meanwhile, Genshin players swap between 4 characters that each have an Attack chain, a Charged Attack, a Passive, a Skill, and a Burst... and that's it. You pretty much only have 2 "abilities" plus your basic light/heavy attacks. And those Skills and Bursts have quite a few variations, from the type of elemental damage to the actual effect it has. So you could *pretend* Genshin Impact has 4 basic Skills that do basic stuff, to build up energy for 4 special Burst abilities. And it can get pretty wild despite that simplicity because those devs will get VERY creative with what the buttons actually do beyond just... "I do damage!" Or you could look at Monster Hunter World. You don't HAVE special abilities on a bar. It differs depending on the weapon, but you mostly have just light and heavy attacks and combo them in different ways (or else ammo, or hold the attack for a different action). The skill needed can vary from the ease of dual blade attack spam to the complex burst combo of charged blade. I think it's time that we move beyond the WoW style of MMO combat. It's grown stale.

[@bravetheocean]

SMN before 6.0: SMN after 6.0:

[@ArcaneGE]

25:51 holy moly THANK YOU I've been saying it so much that this is the most fun Samurai has ever been as far as I'm concerned and people that don't even play the job are STILL going on about Kaiten. It annoys me so much lol

[@Thanaroa]

Class design has left me bored and the story has been painfully bad. I unsubbed last month, ill resub when things are better.

[@sharp_iodine2737]

While I understand there should be complexity in job design, the “complexity” in FFXIV has always been in clunky design. It’s not satisfyingly complex like offering you decision making in your rotation or taking advantage of combos from allies, no. It’s always been clunky, outdated mechanics. Take SCH for example, is the complexity thoughtful or is it clunky? I would say clunky and always has been. You have several anti synergy skills, the fairy gauge is a mess and its integration with the rest of the kit is non existent. While I am no WoW player, I have always been enamoured with their job design which is truly complex. There are build choices, decision making with rotation and cooldown usage and taking advantage of synergies with your teammates. That is complexity. Scholar losing access to pet skills to be able to stop moving and hard cast shit is not complexity that’s just clunky design. The same with aetherbond rooting the fairy and cancelling the tether on other ability execution. All for what? 200P ticks? SE just needs to step into 2024. There are so many MMOs like GW2 and WoW with better combat systems that are truly dynamic. I love this game and how active it is and how it respects my time. I just wish classes weren’t so absolutely devoid of any character or flavour. All the combat complexity is in dodging mechanics and there is none in the classes themselves.

[@stormkeeper1741]

But WoW job balance is non-existent with classes regularly deemed weak and inferior. Each class, that's actually considered viable, has a single spec you are expected to play. Options are nothing more than an illusion in WoW.

[@sharp_iodine2737]

@ First of all there are no unviable classes in WoW just like FFXIV. Meta slaves will always be meta slaves. That’s a player issue not a balance issue. Even high level FFXIV has meta slaves that want specific comps for the 1-2% differences. Secondly, it doesn’t take away from anything else I said. Their combat is miles ahead of FFXIV. Even GW2 combat is miles ahead of anything FFXIV has to offer. In search of this magic middle ground where meta slaves don’t have anything to complain about SE just keeps homogenising all the classes until this point where they are truly interchangeable and for the worst reasons. Add to that the “complexity” is just clunk from 1.0 era and you have a real problem on your hands. The only thing that saves combat is how busy encounter design is at high levels so players have something else to focus on. But even then once you know the content you cannot help but notice how bland your class is.

[@shadieeryaqati4514]

I still want pet-Summoner to come back, compared to the absolute brain-death garbage that SMN has been… mangled and degenerated into.

[@paz8723]

Jobs are simpler now not because of any desire to appeal to a casual audience, but because simpler jobs are easier to balance. Its a cost cutting feature, through and through. Capitalism.

[@nebula8851]

The Superbolide change was to prevent scenarios where a Gunbreaker would die after going to 1, but before the invuln applies.

[@lolthesystem]

This was a bug and was patched in a hotfix shortly after Shadowbringers came out AFAIK (basically it applies the buff before reducing your HP). Holmgang also had a chance to kill you with certain DoTs going through the invuln and was similarly patched a long time ago. The patch notes are also technically not correct regarding Superbolide, it says "Reduces HP by 50% of maximum" and yet skills like Excogitation and Heart of Corundum still proc when you use Superbolide from full HP despite specifically mentioning "when HP falls below 50%" and not when AT 50% HP, so it's more like it reduces your HP by 50.01%.

[@debtmaster]

I felt like it's to mitigate the punishment regarding, like, a Superbolide coming through after Bene or some other burst healing.

[@patrikbatemanx]

they dont even have to make mechanics less hard, so jobs can be more "fun" jobs dont have to be complex to make it engaging/fun. in WoW every class or specc is insanely fun and its not "complex" at all, just super engaging & fun and i dont think its only bcs of the good responsiveness but if the truth is that mechanics need to be less "hard" so jobs can be more fun then fking do it.. or find a balance.

[@C.Cer.]

I agree. Square won't ever increase the mechanical Difficulty of casual content that makes up like 95% of PvE combat in XIV. Anything below Savage/Extreme won't ever be made more difficult? but i'd argue Extreme/Savage in DT isn't more difficult either. Yet? when we pair this with the last time we can recall our Job gaining any depth/complexity? in my case SAM basically I can't remember... its bland & barely engaging content paired with bland thoughtless Job... its so thoughtless I am doing Savage while watching Netflix to stay awake

[@michaelc657]

They'd have to ease up on encounter design, or offer a difficulty between normal and savage. I went from FF14 to WoW in the past year and I currently have AOTC in WOW while in FF14 I won't even touch savage because there's far more pattern memorization than my ADHD-addled ass can store. Because of FF14's jank netcode, a lot of mechanics are based around pre-positioning well enough before the snapshot that you don't notice the huge delay, and in savage they turn off tells and stack enough mechanics overlapping each other that the fight doesn't feel like "position then mechanic then position then mechanic" anymore, but there's so much fight tactic to memorize that savage guides recommend everyone be able to play their rotation blindfolded. Which means jobs with less RNG, and jobs that play more identically so that you're not removed from the raid because you normally play Sage but the other healer is a Scholar this week. Meanwhile, WoW you can actually focus on my job if you needed, with some basic knowledge of the fight because most bosses are voice acted and while Heroic Ansurek is a difficult group-pull for a casual group, you as an individual can focus on your responsibilities if you know that when you hear "Liquify!" or "Vile surge!" that you know exactly what mechanics are going to happen. There are still moments where standing still or not looking where you're going because your eyes are on the hotbar will kill you, but you learn when those moments happen and when to prioritize mechanics and when to be a pumper.

[@C.Cer.]

@@michaelc657 Its just the frequently used argument I see of " increasing mechanical difficulty " when Savage/Ultimate only makes roughly 5% of XIV's available PvE combat content. Players interact with Mobs/Fates/Dungeons/Roulettes you name it. So increasing mechanical difficulty? should mean largely everything, except we know Square won't & can't cause it will negatively impact casual players. Thus how simplified our Jobs have gotten? is highlighted even more in dull content paired with bland Job gameplay. How to fix this? Create a avenue to allow players to express themselves regardless of the Content difficulty? and provide difficulty as a choice. Savage/Ultimate are " Choices " cause they aren't mandatory. But if mechanic vomit left, right & center isn't everyone's cup of tea? they still have " Job depth " to master, even as optionality that they can express in all content - and very important -> " Even when the Game doesn't ask of them to do so ". A feels good that you are allowed to do that tiny bit of extra mit or proper healing or proper rotation or proper resource management or slide casting or gcd juggling or weaving or what have you - " Something " to give the players more to do in content that is already bare bones that can be achieved - Without increasing APM - Without increasing buttons - Without distorting Job balance i.e Increased Skill ceiling as optionality purely through Job gameplay? without increasing the Skill Floor, because if the content doesn't have a (meaningful) Enrage? it does not require players to know their DPS rotation which accounts for pretty much everything before Extreme difficulty. Square has proven to be able to do this, they just clearly won't or we have to wait until 8.0 which is however many years that is until we see something of any ounce or slither of Job depth / complexity / nuance / identity / flavor / anything come... cause that has not happened in " forever " in the exchange to give us what exactly....... anohter in and out / spread / light party / kb into a tower / generic raidwide in between every mechanic / or are we finally not getting a 2 to 3 mobpack into boss room rinse and repeat dungeon formula? its more of the same... its not that its not Fun? its just mediocre after so many years. I can't recall the last time they even give us something for Jobs that was exciting and thought provoking besides sparkly hotbar skills and shiny animations that go woosh-woosh but doesn't give any substance nor half a braincell of engagement to utilize or shove in between our rotation. Not in decision nor in making Jobs more difficult, seems more like the trajectory of Job design is the opposite - More simplification - More homogenization - To solve... I don't know if the statistics show that player count increases... or subscriber count. All I know is that if we continue to make Jobs more boring? we rely heavily on content then ever before due to how boring Jobs are. Content? that not all players will interact with. Where as if we make Jobs exciting, hell crack cocaine addictively fun? it amplifies all Content we do. Because we can selectively ignore certain content we don't like which incl. Raiding of which majority? statistically do not interact with. But 100% of the player-base will have to interact with a Job? to do at least mandatory content to even unlock optional content. And if this is boring?... I can see why my friends quit cause Jobs being to simple... and them giving me their FC house for free =__=; ... but I also see how friends new to XIV do not stick through ARR? simply cause its that boring... and then once they got to lv100? are not excited enough to stay purely based on Job gameplay not being as exciting as they thought it would be. That is the last selling point of XIV that I wished XIV has... Exciting Job Gameplay - it just doesn't have that - it has everything else honestly... it even has the best Gposing, Housing, Story telling, loveable Characters, side stories, achievement hunting, collecting addiction, lots of FF references if you're into FF... it just doesn't scream " You're playing XIV? because of the Job Gameplay being the Nr1 reason compared to what other MMO's can offer in class Gameplay "... And I sorely wished it did... but 8.0 ? I am not holding my breath really I am just expecting more homogenization for my main Job which already has gotten so many in like the 4 years i been playing? I am doing my Rotation blindfolded, while doing Savage, while rewatching Arcane on Netflix on a 2nd screen, type weaving coffee jokes in chat cause I'm falling asleep... let alone what I need to do to stay awake when I farm something like Fates or roulettes, No amount of mechanic vomit? replaces good satisfying Job gameplay... and I have come to peace with it that we won't ever get anything for our Jobs its just going to get dumber is my assumption. The day we do? it will surprise me. Until then? I am just accidentally got into raiding? and as a raider I casually Gpose and do Housing. i see raiding as a after thought to make gil through mercenary runs - I don't even do it cause its fun, cause my favorite Job isn't satisfying its just mediocre.

[@FlameKing91]

Job Class Brainrot to match the writing in DT. Lmao 😂

[@demored3017]

50 mins of the same beatened dead horse...we know why they are making the jobs easier, to encourage new players to savage and up since otherwise it would be ignored...why most hardcore raiders want their jobs to be janky like the old days, they want to lord over people and be the "best" in a janky system...we figured this out already...no need for word salad

[@sparkspringfield]

Physical range still in the gutter, I really hope this role get some love at next savage drop. Viper "doing well" is a mystery to me, because as a selfish dps, seeing Ouroboros hit between 80k AND 200k depending of crit proc or direct Hit, when multiple jobs got an auto crit directly in the kit is a mistery to me. The more downtime you have, the less usefull Viper will always be and replaced. Even more with NIN small buffs & QoL, most VPR friends move to NIN. I might hop on the NIN myself when I'm down leveling it for next savage if there is no changes to Viper, I'd rather have potency down and have a feeling of consistency instead of getting an unlucky crit proc per fight as a selfish melee

[@Ririten]

As a GNB main since the job came out, I hate the new changes. The Superbolide buff damages the flavor of the job, but more importantly the change to our ammo management makes the rotation less fun. It removes a failure state in your rotation via mismanaging ammo (I maintain failure states are a good thing) but also forces you to now randomly blow burst strikes between windows or you'll overcap. In terms of the overall direction of the game, I am just not happy in how most jobs are changing for the easier. GNB is the only job I play in Savage/Ulti/Crit but I do play the other jobs in less serious content and it's hard to not feel like I'm less engaged every patch. Especially on healers, which have just been reduced to nothing anywhere outside of Savage and Ultimate. Mash one button for 20 minutes. Great.

[@theredten3946]

I don't see the problem with making jobs simpler, makes people level up jobs they would of never touched before. Might be a hot take, but idc.

[@Alix_Farin]

Why even bother leveling a different class if they all end up being the same

[@Noel_Tamura]

Some jobs being simpler is totally fine, the issue most people see is with every job becoming simpler every patch. This may sound elitist but not every job is for everyone and the reward lies in the execution of challenging stuff during an encounter. I will probably never be a good bard because the way the rotation works just completely messes with my brain but that's totally fine. I'll never complain about it and they shouldn't make jobs simpler because some players can't handle the rotation. There are 20 other jobs to choose from, there are no excuses

[@armorparade]

"complex" is not always good but neither is "simple" black mage has always been complex but that's been a source of enjoyment for many. reaper was designed to be rather simple, but derives a lot of its fun from the flow state it provides, and the discrete adjustments you make to optimize your play people don't like it when a job is made more simple when it flattens a lot of the decisionmaking and excitement that came from the job. likewise, dragoon becoming more rigid and stuffy over the years feels bad. it's certainly still an involved job but so much of the "questions" that job used to ask you feel like they're just gone now even though the job is still so busy and involved

[@theredten3946]

@@Alix_Farin Obviously all the classes wont be the same, each jobs have their own little unique quirks to them, but making classes more simpler isn't a problem in my opinion. The difficulty of the game should come from raids and party optimizations.

[@FutayuriShironeko]

As healer main with Gnb addiction. DD going from 2 to 1 is both good and bad change. Good that it makes forced downtime not that big of a deal as well as die in half minute not as punishing as any other tank period. Bad, Why is it Double Down? Cartridge difference was what made it unique and worthy of being named Double Down. The fact that Whm is still getting dunked on this badly after 7.1 "buffs" is wild... They need to buffs Glare 3 by another 10 - 15, Misery 40 - 60 and buff Glare IV by ~ 50 - 70. If they don't Whm will continue to be an afterthought to Ast. If Square continues holding on 2 raid buff healers and 2 "Selfish" healers, those "Selfish" healers need to hit much harder to make it much more of a close choice which healer you want to take into your group. Every serious group is always Sch/Ast ever since Midas or so... and with a very clear reason why. SE needs to change "selfish" healers into actually competitive dps-wise through more engaging rotation or add weaker raid buff (~3% dmg buff). Edit: For an Example of how they could buff "Selfish" healers without simply inflating their numbers directly, in the case of Whm. Make PoM 20 sec. Whm in PoM gains ~10% buff to Glare 3 dmg as well as a dps ogcd from Glare 3 during PoM and Glare IV with 30sec duration, stacking up to 3 times. Make Glare IV proc from Misery at 100% chance and Glare 3 at 20% chance. Add 2 buffs after casting Misery that buff your next healing Lily and Raises potency of "Light" magic by ~15% for 20sec. Numbers aren't to scale, just there to paint clearer example.

[@ignavis]

DRG became less fun GNB is just getting better Hallowed Ground, Increasing Cartridges to 3 was a mistake anyways DRK is becoming more useful, just gotta unlink Carve and Drain now, they should never get Raw Intuition or something like that Healers got good QoL, no reason to want to compete in damage with other healers imo NIN had its only issue fixed MCH Balance Team is fucking CLUELESS dude. SMN Melee hit of Ifrit not being cancelable shouldve been way sooner.

[@Nycounterpoint1]

Yeah…

[@lolthesystem]

Just a slight correction about DRG: Due to bad math on SE's part, the removal of the 2 Nastronds is a nerf, not a buff, even with everything else being buffed Taking Honey B. Lovely as an example since it has almost full uptime, the rank 1 had 30,098.1 rDPS back in 7.05, while the rank 1 in 7.1 has 29,910.8 rDPS. That's almost 200 rDPS less. Even in nDPS, which doesn't take into consideration any buffs, it's still getting lower numbers than it did in 7.05. Honestly, if the point was removing skills, they should've removed Life Surge. It's the one button everybody hates because it adds virtually nothing to the job mechanically, yet you have 2 charges of it.

[@rivvysenpai]

The issue with a majority of jobs is also trait placements, DRK suffers the most from this imo alongside the initial Yawntrail release exacerbating the issue with the job as a whole. To give a few examples, DRK at any content below 100 suffers drastically compared to their EW counterpart, the plunge removal effectively removing 1050 potency per 2mins (Esteem now also does a 0 damage shadowstride because of the plunge removal, good job devs.) The mana changes removing defensive play and 460 potency every 2mins from the job aswell alongside bloodspillers per 3 rotation cycles at maximum and terrible gcd damage scaling pre lvl 94. Cannot forget to mention TBN being level 70 and having hp scaling that is very weak in low end content(even if its level was lowered, would still be very weak due to the hp scaling.) The trait system needs a complete rework alongside some job decisions as a whole for many jobs in this game. Them doubling down on buffing the delirium GCDS at the level 100 bracket only made this issue worse and shows they genuinely dont know what to really do, putting those potencies anywhere else wouldve helped the job much more overall.

[@Myrtneough]

Honestly, it feels a lot like they need to do an entire revamp of kits and combat flow in general. The pvp changes they did with this patch were mostly really nice in terms of making the jobs feel better to play while keeping their unique aspects and I'm starting to wish that they would let whoever did the design there have a go at the PvE side of jobs.

[@dunethewanderer8944]

I find that complexity isn't linked to fun for me. Gunbreaker and Machinist are both simple, but I find Gunbreaker anxiety-inducing because everything needs to line up while MCH is dynamic where buttons WILL drift and its your job to make sure those buttons get hit as often as possible anyway.

[@IWLGaming]

This. I fucking LOVE playing warrior viper and reaper. None of them are complex at all, but viper and reaper do get some fun fast bursts without being some overly complicated mess.

[@carbonide1290]

Anxiety inducing? Really? Just practice the damn job its not rocket science

[@marianalenz9935]

.... mch buttons wont drift..... like what

[@adamrussell9573]

If you press buttons off cd, machinist doesn't drift. Like at all. If anything, it's an extremely static rotation, down to the gcd

[@Kaeiand]

Glad Rinon could appease that chip in their brain that explodes if they don't lament a job being easier than before every two weeks. 🙄

[@Alix_Farin]

I don't understand, if you don't agree there's no counter argument from you here and if you're that annoyed why are you still watching another one of these videos?

[@Kaeiand]

@@Alix_Farin Initially wrote it off, but gave it a chance when I saw it seemed to be a video on patch changes, rather than the dozenth thinkpiece about how much better Stormblood job design was.

[@shiro12okami69]

As a person who plays ffxiv a lot, and still does mentor roulettes even after having done 2000 already. Yes the rotations have to be simple, since so many still can’t do current rotations. They don’t use mitigation,they don’t dps as healer,they can’t keep rotations aligned and raidbuff aswell. I’m not trying to be mean but out of my experience that’s the norm….

[@axelblazeheart5577]

But that's also kinda counterintuitive, how will someone learn if there is not a learning curve? Soemone will be new and will be bad that is a definite fact, but all it takes is the player themselves being receptive to learning and being taught by other players. That's not to say jobs should be some complex beast (I've been playing since HW and the game is just a different game entirely when you look at jobs) But that's not a bad thing or wasnt a bad thing, I would say with dawntrail release, aside from some fine tuning every job was in a great spot, none too complex you couldn't just pick up and play as the majority of the playerbase will stop at ex and at that point it's more a mech check rather than a dps check

[@Thanaroa]

I dont care if they suffer, I'm bored playing my classes.

[@Pitch04]

If they can't play the game well or strive to play better then I don't think they should play it in the first place. We're 100 levels in, people

[@TheWickedWizardOfOz1]

@@Pitch04 I didn't know how my job (Scholar) worked because nobody told me that I was bad at it. Until I was in Alzadaal's Legacy a couple years ago and I had a tank politely inform me that he had to wait for his invuln to come back before pulling the next mob. I was mortified. Then I got to studying and found out what my kit actually did. If I can do it, anyone can.

[@shiro12okami69]

Playing since 2.3 ish or so, while I do understand ppl wanting some complexity,by now to complex jobs are probably not possible to create anymore,given how the mechanical design philosophy of the game has become. Rotations have to be fluent and consistent in what they are trying to achieve with each job, imagine having weird alignment windows in high end content,while having a insanely complex rotation to manage alongside mechanics that are getting harder and harder each expansion. Top being a Bodycheck spam reliant of 8 players being near perfect execution wise. There is simply no place for to much complexity anymore,because at the end of day rotations have to work for the highest content mostly, since that usually is the only content where dmg/ rotation normally matters. I don’t see them changing a lot in 8.0,unless they completely change the mechanical part of encounters. And I would agree with the complexity u currently get in ffxiv is actually the hardcore content(mechanics,executing them,searching for uptime,mapping resources mitigation….) Needless to say I’m currently happy combat wise,since I’m hardcore raiding,I believe tho that healers could get some sort of little combo rotation,but that rly depends how they would implement it. All others are completely fine since they all work perfectly in given content where it matters most.

[@Roar8891]

I like the double down changes 2 cart no mercy windows should mean GNB burst more/quicker and suffer less in downtime not sure I like the physical being add to the hol and dark missionary especially when reprisal exists and superbolide I can only think there is a mechanic for GNB in FRU

[@Kittycat7070-]

74 views in 0 minutes? Wow, you fell on

[@liontamer4132]

13 minutes after upload? Neat

[@Shinnouryu]

I've been playing GNB for a long time, this is the first patch I completely dislike. We shouldn't have all mitigation efficient against any damages, we have spents months asking to know the type of damages we were taking. It made us think about how to use mitigations, not anymore. Dark Knight changes are terrible, it loses its identity as the anti magic tank and the job still remains a boredom during the filler. EDIT: That's just my opinion, guys, no need to get butthurt. Today we just press the "raidwide mitigation" without thinking and regardless of its effect. That's just making tanks even more homogenized.

[@misheruzinho]

the fuck you mean changes are goated, damage specific mit used to be something that makes DRK obnoxious to play on raid tiers with low magic damage, made me play drk and gnb more

[@undercoverspy123]

@@misheruzinho basically these boomers hate any good change that makes the jobs less dog or janky.

[@misheruzinho]

@@undercoverspy123 elitism goes hard

[@misheruzinho]

@@undercoverspy123 "MUHHHH THEY KILLING DRK JOB IDENTITY BY MAKING HIM TANK SOMETHING THAT IS NOT MAGIC" bruh.

[@reefs3162]

i cant speak for pre endwalker but since the addition of oblation it never mattered whether drk had dark mind or not, even without dark mind all the tanks pretty much all have the same amount of mitigation. and well for heart of light and dark missionary it will almost never matter because of the amount of buttons healers now have. now with drk being a snoozefest i agree but people are still gonna play it in fru tomorrow cuz dmg go brrr lol

[@jonny1494]

hate it

[@tronaldtv7099]

the saddest part is that they keep making jobs more simple and the community, in general, still sucks

[@dragonyeti88]

Yes, it's really good

[@laconik5472]

Complex mechanics > complex job, I really don’t want to see another iteration of ARR/HW stance dancing/tp managing/dark arts spamming/cross class nada. It changed for a reason

[@yeoldpubman]

Gimme both. You're allowed to have both. Keep some easy classes around for the people that aren't masochists but as for me, fuck me up fam.

[@flivine]

First

[@ashleymcmillan3379]

13th

[@littywitty5867]

Im a champion for simpler job design, but changes like DRG’s are concerning. We should really be focusing on pressing less buttons more. High APM was never the issue for accessibility, it was the amount of buttons you needed to fit into your setup.