Riot was making their own Smash Bro's game... It didn't work out

So the news has recently come out that Riot games was working on a direct competitor to Smash Bros in the platform fighting game genre. This game however unfortunately, was canceled. Why did it get started up to begin with, and why was it canceled? Thats what this video will try to figure out.
Link to the article: www.readergrev.com/p/riot-gam...
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#gaming #riot #2xko

[@rooflemonger]

So interesting, if unfortunate news for today. Recently it came to light that Riot Games was working on their own platform fighter code named "Pool Party" which was to be a direct competitor to Smash Bros. However that did not come to fruition as it would seem that a couple months back the game was canceled, seemingly on the back of the apparent underperforming of MultiVersus of all things! So in this video lets discuss the hows and whys of everything that happened, and check the link in the video description if ya wanna check out the original article!

[@NuBOrn21]

That makes me laugh cuz multiversus hasn’t failed…

[@rooflemonger]

@@NuBOrn21 it definitely was dying the first time around and if it didn't do the rebranding act it'd be long done as a concern already.

[@NuBOrn21]

@@rooflemonger this is true but people think that they was referring to the relaunch… also I think they should’ve dropped it the polish would’ve been next level compared to NASB or Multiversus which have both dropped janky as hell

[@nugzmedallion8929]

Man that actually kinda sucks because Multiversus SHOULD NOT be a frame of reference to what a successful platform fighter can be as WB effectively killed any hope the game had of doing well by egregiously monetizing it with microtransactions and stuff like character- and even costume-specific challenges that you would 100% have to spend money on the game in some fashion to complete. That, plus they made the odd decision to slow the speed of the entire game, making a LOT of things not work as they once did, and in general, there's just a hefty amount of jank...and they STILL don't have a Ranked mode to this day. I feel like, with Riot's quality implementation, their platform fighter could have been VERY successful. I would've played it just as a fan of Smash in desperate search of a competent new platform fighter (Nick All-Star Brawl 2 is OK at best.)

[@SirLightsOut99]

Yeah it’s hard to blame the game itself when Zaslav clearly came in and Zaslaved all over it. I feel like by this point that dude is right up there with Nintendo's lawyers on the internet's most hated tier list. If there's a recent thing you enjoy, he's probably made it worse somehow.

[@azurraa]

I wish wb would just get rid of zaslav he’s damaged and harmed the gaming industry in general and tainted wb and discovery’s branding in general where people know what they are getting into like it’s Bethesda with fallout

[@crowwithknifecawcaw]

I agree with everything you've said besides the slowing of the game. I distinctly remember 2's being a fkn shitshow in the beta. It was too damn fast. Similarly, 1's felt pointless. It was like Smash 4's online experience with non stop dodging and missing each other. It sucked. And the proof that it sucked is the evident in the fact that its numbers organically died. There is a small but loud sect of people who complain about Multiversus being slowed down, but I couldn't disagree more. 2's are actually playable now,, and 1's are sped up by 15% so it doesn't even feel that slow. It was legitimately a superior change for the health of the combat. Plenty of video essays from pro players breaking down why it's a good change too. But the monetization is what'll kill it this time round, not the overwhelming speed.

[@nugzmedallion8929]

@@crowwithknifecawcaw Ok thats all fine and dandy, but you're Strawmanning ALL OVER THE PLACE. 1. the beta died because WB/PFG DIDN'T KEEP RELEASING CONTENT CONSISTENTLY. It had nothing to do with how fast the game was. PLENTY of people enjoyed how fast the game was in 1s and 2s, and there was a dedicated yet small playerbase, myself included, playing all the way until the end of the beta's life. It wasn't the speed that killed it. ALSO it took over half a year to get Ranked in the Beta and they still had to pull it down multiple times, among a slew of other problems. (I have no idea how its so hard to get a basic Ranked mode and Elo system right) 2. I personally stopped playing because the game felt sluggish and a lot of hitboxes and hurtboxes were EXTREMELY wonky when I started playing the full release. As someone who primarily plays 1s, these changes SUCK and the extra "15% its sped up by" (dont even know where u got that info and pretty sure it's BS) isn't noticeable to me. I'm not nearly the only one. 3. I really don't care about video essays from "pro players," they aren't the final judgment on all things FGC. 4. The game is doing JUST AS BAD now that it's slowed down as it was before (it went from over 100k steam players day 1 to less than 7k peak in the last 24 hrs and still declining) 5. I could even get past the new speed of the game if all the combos still worked the way they used to, but they dont. SO MUCH frame data changed and they obviously don't give it out (idk why platform fighters never wanna let you know frame data but whatever) and on top of that, even some basic Jab strings don't even connect as intended anymore, even with all the changes made. 6. This one is speculation from me: I think that they only slowed the game down in the first place because they made the absolutely unnecessary decision to switch from UE4 to UE5, forcing them to likely have to mess with a BUNCH of assets, etc.

[@CrossfacePanda]

On the topic of platform fighters not doing as well as Smash: I think a big reason for that (other than the massive IPs in Smash and the legacy of the franchise itself) is that all Smash clones focus mainly on the competitive aspect, when that’s not at all why Smash sells 30 million copies. Smash sells because of chaotic multiperson fights with items and stage hazards. Yes, there’s a sizable group of people who play Smash competitively. But they’re still less than 0.1% of the audience who bought the games. It sells because it’s more than just a competitive focused fighter. And the Smash clones are mostly competitive fighters, which has an audience for sure, but not a Smash sized audience. If Multiversus would’ve had tons of items and wacky stages like Smash has, I think it would’ve had more staying power.

[@LG555]

Also, most of these games focus mainly on PC, which is the main plattform for the "Gamer". When he hears Plattformfighter, he also thinks Nintendo and Smash and concludes, that is a babygame for little children. Just look at Foamstars, which even by Sony fans was dubbed "Splatoon at home".

[@mehgamer467]

Are we still calling them smash clones in 2024. It's called platform fighters. We don't call fighting games street fighter clones or anything like that.

[@CrossfacePanda]

@@mehgamer467 I call them both. Don’t really think it’s a big deal.

[@rooflemonger]

Fighting games are indeed back in a big way, but we ain't quite where things like the FPS genre is, each new fighter is precious still, and to see one especially at the potential size and scope of what Riot could bring forth get canceled before it sees the light of day is a bit of a bummer. It does seem a lot harder to make a big breakthrough in the platform fighter side of things compared to more traditional fighting games, but hopefully that doesn't discourage people in the future.

[@Game3Free]

I’m def discouraged. For a new platform fighter to succeed, I think it would have to draw in a large number of newcomers to the genre or poach a big chunk of the casual fanbase of Smash. If you play Smash casually, it’s hard to imagine you would play TWO plat fighters casually. And if the IP libraries of Warner Bros and Nickelodeon couldn’t do it, I don’t know what can. I think the Rivals 2 gameplay will attract a good number of competitive Smashers and would prob be a great game for a trad fighting game player looking to get into the subgenre, but I don’t think it’ll be popular enough with the casual audience to have a big breakthrough

[@fightedmealready2692]

I appreciate devs trying to fill that Smash gap with their own IP’s but man the feel of Smash Bros is just so hard to replicate. All games similar to it like Rivals of Aether, Multiversus, Nickelodeon All Star Brawl, fun games but none of them feel as good as smash does in my opinion. Maybe one day

[@onthedre]

Brawlhalla is better if you want a game that's actually balanced and has more precise controls but it does lack that sauce that Smash has. Still VERY addictive once you're decent at it though and I play It more than Smash because 1/4th of Smashes roster is just unviable compared to the high tiers (unless you wanna work 4x as hard...)

[@djbubblegum9975]

I think a huge part of it is the movement. All of the other platforms fighters use digital control while Smash uses analogue, allowing for things like tilt attacks and natural movement acceleration as you move the stick in a direction. It's such a small thing but I think that's what contributes a lot to the feeling Smash has as opposed to everything else

[@Limit02]

@@onthedre balancing is easier I guess when every character is a combination of the exact same couple of move sets

[@VitaStarz]

Personally I like that they don't try to make it feel like smash bros, if I want something that feels like smash bros I'll just play Smash bros

[@funstorm1789]

Rivals is good, all those others are piss. Even Flash Party is better than all those other games and its ultra mid everywhere but in gameplay. i blame influencers like CONEY for saying its too slow or whatever dispite those voices dont really care about the game and were going to drop it anyways.

[@supersaline8290]

I'm glad 2xko is not a platform fighter i prefer it to be traditional

[@crimhammerlock8963]

Hearing that tidbit about fighterz hurt my soul.. ARCSYS! GIVE ME DRAGONBALL FIGHTERZ 2, AND MY LIFE IS YOURS

[@rooflemonger]

arcsys has zero decision making power at all about DBFZ, and thats part of the problem. Namco is an awful steward of the game and the reason why the rollback version was such a disaster is cause allegedly arcsys refuses to even deal with them anymore.

[@chakradarrat8832]

no, make fighterz game based on other anime. one piece fighterz next

[@m3tl1kv3e9]

Riot Smash Inspired Style interesting.

[@darquezze306]

Extremely disappointed to hear about this. But if you do still want a Smash competitor that is getting a lot of praise as of late, check out Rivals 2, the sequel to Rivals of Aether! Both games are extremely polished platform fighters, with unique movesets and amazing animations, something you don't find in platform fighters as much. Rivals of Aether also has a lot of casual content like a story mode, custom colors, its Abyss mode, and Steam Workshop, which lets you turn the game into something like Mugen! Rivals 2 won't launch with its story mode, but it will gain more casual content down the line and also now has a publisher in Offbrand games. The team is trying really hard to make the Esports scene for it bigger and better and I really hope people support the game!

[@dragongamerrylucius]

I never heard of Riot before.

[@oussama7132]

they knew Teemo's pancake aerials were too op

[@Jebby_Gudthrust]

Riot might be the most polarizing company for me on the market right now; on one hand they are making 2xko(Dos Equis) and every company that has worked with them has said good things... ...but the next day we hear about mass lay offs and studio closure like the entirety of Riot forge and rumored sunsetting of their card game which makes me worried about long-term support of anything that isnt League or TFT.

[@liqiye3611]

They are working on 2xko, Project F, an MMO that uses the League IP, and an FPS-MMO that will use the Valorant IP. League, Valorant, TFT, and LoR are all part of their portfolio. They have so many games in development and live, so it makes sense why they would shut down Riot Forge. For example, Riot Forge was just an experiment where they gave their IP to indie developers to make games. However, it failed, and since Riot already has a successful model, it makes sense why they wouldn’t continue supporting it. Their model is simple: create live service games, sell skins but with no power, support every fantasy in your community, and don't look down upon it. Lastly, they also have a lot of R&D projects. Additionally, for the card game (LoR), they lose money instead of gaining it, so they just slow down support for it, unlike other companies that shut down the entire game.

[@Hype_Incarnate]

Im not the biggest fan of platform fighters. They always feel so jank compared to how tight trad fighters are, but you are 100% correct on the platform scene. Its just smash bros and Nintendo killed it themselves. nobody at Nintendo will want to follow up after Sakura retired.

[@AnxMa]

You mention Fighting Games being back but there's one sub genre that is still neglected. The top notch side scrolling beat'em ups from the 90's; the iconic 'Punisher' or 'Cadillacs and Dinosaurs', not to mention 'Violent Storm'. I really miss that quality 'Made in Japan' from back in a day. I was so close to visiting it at one point. Had xp with MoCap and in late 2015 I was in contact with Capcom about the facial likeness role of Leon for the Resident Evil 2 Remake. I failed to mention I also have a voice acting background, in the end I lost the part and I can't forgive myself for wasting such an opportunity to visit the place that inspired artists like Toriyama and movies like 'Akira' and 'Ghost in the Shell'.

[@AirLancer]

Because beat 'em ups are a completely separate genre of game, not a subgenre of fighting games.

[@djbubblegum9975]

Lmao the way the intro synched with the Jinx footage was so clean. I see you rooflemonger

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

Interesting that this news came out now and not back when Riot first announced the shut down of Riot Forge and general pivot away from making more LoL spin offs in order to better maintain their bigger more established and safe live services.

[@overthemoon34]

Riot Forge was them outsourcing the Riot IP, whereas this was inhouse, just like the Riot MMO and 2XKO.

[@valmiro4164]

Because it was never announced? They cancel projects all the time, the few projects they announce are the ones they're confident enough they'll be able to release. Not to mention it was cancelled around May, Riot Forge cancellation was back in January.

[@JuLayLeeBee]

Ugh I’m PISSED

[@CrossfacePanda]

Sad as it is, the reality is that a Smash clone probably would’ve been able to get more League players over from LoL to try out the game (and stay playing) than a VS inspired fighting game like 2XKO. Good news is that means 2XKO won’t get internal competition from another Riot fighting game, and is at less risk of losing support early as it could’ve been if the Smash clone had made them way more money.

[@rooflemonger]

theres zero competition when it comes to platform fighters and traditional fighters. There's almost no crossover to the point where we have to make the distinction of platform vs "normal" more than say 2d fighter vs 3d fighter.

[@CrossfacePanda]

For us, sure. Although I think platform fighters are fighting games, but the competitive communities are different of course Internally, there absolutely would’ve been though. Especially if one does a lot better than the other, and ROI start coming into play. We’ll never know now of course, but I guarantee you they both saw them as fighting games competing for the same audience. Because speaking from a game dev perspective, they just do.

[@MrNyagasu]

Multiversus failed in the comeback because it had terrible monetization, so many bugs and exploits that they had to remove a character, slowed down characters, a intentional extra input delay, the developers lied to the players, they removed many characters and all gold that players earned in the beta, and created a pay to win PvE mode. Riot absolutelly could be more sucessful simply by copying the LoL monetization system on a barely decent game.

[@wasazo]

Riot also shut down the entire Forge thingy they had going on a while back. And it wasn't only that, they have been trying to cut costs for a while now, mostly in the esports side of things (LCS going from 10 to 8 teams for example). While I'm sure the Multiversus thing has some true to it, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a part of that.

[@noahgaming7267]

I would’ve been mad excited to see how this game would cook

[@bogbupog]

4:55 Nothing escape's Rooflemonger's gaze

[@jellojiggler1693]

Rooflegazer

[@GabuFGC]

Its weird that MVS is what scared it especially considering brawlhalla. I think brawlhalla is a bad game and a lot of people i know share a similar view but we can't deny it's play count. It's clearly successful so riots canceling this is so odd.

[@mop-kun2381]

it's just an excuse, the real reason is just they want to fire somebody to cut cost. Pool Party is just happen to be the sacrificial lamb

[@Bcgizmo]

I don’t think the comparison multi versus is good because that game was not supported by its developer at all and lack of updates made it fall off. I think Riot would’ve done a way better job of supporting the game. I feel having two fighting games would’ve split the community and one would’ve performed better than the other

[@rooflemonger]

you know what games are even less supported by their developer? Smash lol

[@nodnoh-2174]

The game was in Beta. It wasn't a lack of support. The game was not officially launched. Every time you loaded it it had a large Beta title right under the name.

[@brandonlee5339]

I've never enjoyed League and have never had much interest in it, but when I heard the idea for a platform fighter from them, I felt that sorta excited "ooo that would be a great idea!" feeling. So if they did it, they'd at least get a guaranteed $60ish from me. And in my mind, that's a big deal

[@fennicfox4600]

I think Smash is one of the most recognizable brands in videogames let alone the FGC and that's why it sells. It basically a milestone in gaming since one comes out every console generation. I guess what I'm trying to say is you can't compete with smash by making a new game. You have to be a titan of game to even be comparable to smash.

[@AdamFunke94]

have you seen the game trailer for the fighting games blazing strike (90s retro fighting game) or knockoff (action figurine fighting) ? if no, maybe you want to look into it, looking cool to me

[@ETEmischief]

I think the reason multvs went up and then down so fast is even though it had a lot the game was just so slow and floaty as well as made as a 2v2. so it it wasn't exactly great for lots of players and what they wanted

[@fraeofficial]

I don't think they should look at multiversus for why not to do it. Multiversus is great but it has a lot of connection issues and not enough single player content to hold people. The characters are fun though.

[@ITS_NIN10DOUGHBOY_YT]

Multiversus and many platform fighters fail cause they release a some what lack luster roster and dont add enough to the game when you have a game like Smash ultimate out you cannot be shy in content u essentially haft to pump out updates quite often or the masses will just go back to smash which already prolly has their favorite characters of all time

[@VitaStarz]

Idk I personally don't like smash ultimate, smash ultimate itself felt lack luster in actual good content in comparison to the past smash games n ultimate just felt weirdly stiff in gameplay

[@user-dz8fp6cu9p]

I'm looking forward to trying 2xko, but i would've loved to have seen their take on a platform fighter. Nintendo being the only AAA platform fighter Dev for such a long time means they get to control the scene way too much. EDIT: The reason multiversus failed was a combination of bad monetisation and Jack (in the bad way) gameplay. WB has been famously misusing their IP in big swing crossovers for years now (Space Jam 2, the Flash, and now Multiversus.) The lesson to take from that is not that platform fighters are Smash or nothing, it's that WB has poor management.

[@JuLayLeeBee]

How is Smash controlling the scene when there’s been no new content for YEARS GTFOH 🙄

[@user-dz8fp6cu9p]

@@JuLayLeeBee I'm talking about Nintendo's pattern of shutting down tournaments.

[@panunderscore]

Pretty sad news to hear as a fan of both league and melee, especially after hearing their reasoning. From a business perspective it’s definitely the less risky move (especially now that 2xko is on the way), but I feel like Multiversus’ initial success was carried by its IP’s but its playerbase dwindled because the game was just boring to play/watch compared to smash. Say what you will about Riot but they definitely understand how to make gameplay engaging for players and audiences in a way that few other studios are capable of and I think that people would have responded very well to a league-smash clone.

[@elmono6299]

It was honestly a good call that Riot made 2XKO into a 2D tag fighter rather than a platform fighter because it's too hard to compete against the like of Super Smash Bros. Other than its cringey name, the game has a lot of potential for being a good game if Riot plays the cards right. Fingers crossed for Warwick, Renekton, Volibear, Alistar, Rengar, Wukong, Annie, Blitzcrank, Vel'Koz, Fiddlesticks, Thresh, Cho' Gath, and Kayle

[@Houldey]

Fighting games aren't back until we get masters of teras kasi 2. We're so close tho.

[@valmiro4164]

To be fair Riot already has a massive pool of gamers to pull from while possibly most of WB's fans aren't really gamers.

[@Desdex]

Riot should make LOL version of Starcraft 2 since that game very popular game in Korea?

[@P_OmSa]

I wonder if there isn't a bit more to this than Multiversus' failure. Perhaps they felt the genre skewed too casual for their free--to-play business model. Like, if the overwhelming majority of players think of these games as a party games, they're less likely to remain "engaged" and buy paid dlc. This isn't really a problem with Smash because Nintendo *A)* charges you for their games up front and *B)* they make a lot of money off of hardware sales anyway, so a game's financial success is not much of an issue. So if you're Riot and you're unsure your business model works with the genre, and you see a similar endeavor fail, you'll obviously get cold feet.

[@nodnoh-2174]

Why do people keep saying Multiversus got pulled? It was in Beta.

[@OhNoTheFace]

They half assed Multiversus and then over monetized it, it's stupid of Riot to think it was a matter of IP popularity. Riot ideally would not be scum and half ass it

[@DIOBrando-ij2bp]

The oddest thing in the game industry right now is the totally lack of platform fighters from big publishing studios, especially publishers that make fighting games. Smash Bros. Ultimate is the biggest retail fighting game by a fairly large margin now, so much so that it’s the 19th best selling game of all time. Studios used to try and make Halo killers, but Halo never sold anywhere close to what Smash Bros. Ultimate has. The market is completely primed for someone to come along and take Smash Bros. crown too just like it was for Call of Duty to beat Halo; I mean, Smash Bros. pretty consistently outsold all other fighting games, even in times when it was on the worst selling system of a console generation, and it’s locked exclusively to Nintendo systems, (although with how the Switch has sold, for the first time ever that’s not exactly a bad thing for sales) so theoretically someone should be able to come along and easily outperform the 19th best selling game of all time if they’re on everything. It’s free-to-play, but MultiVersus did have something like over 20 million people playing it with it the first month of the beta; so there is this huge untapped market of people that will play platform fighters that maybe don’t even have a Switch. If Bandai Namco actually just make their own platform fighter, (they have been the actual developers of Smash Bros since Wii/3DS) did it with Jump, and put it on everything they could easily outperform Smash Bros. They could do it with other stuff too, but Jump is the big thing they have. That feels like something we should see from them soon since Sora release at the end of 2021... I mean it would be insane if Bandai Namco didn’t have that Smash Bros. Ultimate (it’s the best selling game they’ve ever been involved in) team doing some follow-up these last almost three years now.

[@arthurpprado]

Thank you WB for shooing Riot away from platfighters

[@monkeyduhluffy]

Hearing it was specifically designed to be Melee-like from a gameplay perspective makes me feel even more bummed out

[@k1ngatlas474]

Thank god at first it was exciting to get platform fighters to compete with smash but now it’s obvious no one can contend with smash

[@thatguymatt5816]

WB killed multiversus with shitty business decisions. Insane micro transactions, not ever actually releasing the game and just kind of building of the beta, leaving people wondering if it’ll go away along with all the things they bought and also smash FEELS great. Smash is satisfying to play. Multiversus was fun, but it definitely wasn’t smooth like smash

[@dr.wolfstar1765]

I honestly would have liked that over 2xko

[@barrymaslow8441]

They legit need to keep the name "Project L"... Xk20 is an ATROCIOUS name. Does NOT flow.

[@HJayZ91]

There is a reason there is not really a platform fighters community, only a Smash community. They only like Smash and nothing else. With all platform fighters Smash occupies 95% of the competitive market while everything else is struggling hard to even stay relevant. At this point I just don’t think any platform fighters can take on Smash

[@alexelliot5907]

Can anyone tell me the name of Rooflemongers outro song?

[@FudGnut]

Keep On Jumpin' (Tee's Freeze Mix) for the record, there's an app called "Shazam" which lets you find songs you dont know the name of

[@Chocolatebeeef]

Smash essentially needs to die before something new come up. Smash definitely can be done better but timing is key and atm the time isn’t right.

[@smilingryu2274]

i dont know why but the riot fighting game dont click with me... i dont really like multi fighters tag team or like MK1 i tried them the only one that clicked was actually MVC2 not even 3 ultimate did it for me.....

[@bbyjohn11]

Smash clones just don’t work unfortunately. At this point idk is a new smash could live up to ultimate.

[@dddaaa6965]

didn't rivals/rivals 2 have a lot of success? And I think brawlhalla also still has tonsss of players and tournaments even though its super old. Also, I don't think it's fair to say they don't work when 99% of them are really low budget AND bad, either way though nothing of value was lost LULLLL platform fighters are so bad and has weird as hell fans.

[@knickknack675]

Nick all stars and multiversus could’ve been great but corpo greed ruined both IMO. Nothing will come close to smash anytime soon now

[@Nathan-zd8ew]

Hey Rooflemonger, are you related to the 'Food Wishes' guy?

[@rooflemonger]

nope

[@toobad111]

Multiversus ruined any chance for a competitor to smash.

[@Sasoripwns]

They should only do 1 fighting game anyways.

[@NurseValentineSG]

I feel like the problem with platform fighters and esports is clarity. If you are not into smash bros or any other platform fighter, it is pretty hard as a viewer to understand what is going on. All traditional fighting games have a lifebar, so you know when it is down, a character is probably out. Characters are usually pretty big on the screen, so it is usually pretty clear what is going on. Meanwhile in a platform fighter, characters are usually pretty far away. Then most platform fighters are also *really* fast, and small really fast things are just extremely hard to follow. Like, obviously, smash gets the viewer numbers, you cannot ever deny that. But smash is also a legacy franchise, with a history that is soon reaching over 30 years. People will watch smash because they know what smash is. But Multiversus didn't have that. Doesn't help that 2v2s are always harder to follow anyway. "But Nurse Valentine, League is a 5v5, that should be even harder to follow!" Yes, and that game moves at a glacial speed. Slow enough that the camera can jump to the next battle happening without missing anything else. Which is why they slowed down Multiversus, to make it easier to follow. But that came to the cost of gameplay. Like, you can meme all about the massive COUNTER and extreme slowdown in strive, but people *absolutely* understand what happened at that point. And understanding a battle makes it way more fun to watch, regardless of playing the game or not.

[@GarredHATES]

Considering how most of them fail it was probably for the best. Smash is Smash and Brawlhalla was a fluke!

[@Xengard]

Why does no one mention the nickelodeon fighting game, lol. Is it really that forgetable?

[@rooflemonger]

i literally do mention nasb in the video, as an example of something that works, but not to the scale that riot would want

[@fc5139]

just what we needed, another smash clone.

[@captainphoton1693]

I feel like smash and plateform fighters are kinda screw by a tiny little thing. General mechanics Traditional fighters have an easier time taking the same 3 types of button layout. And add new mechanics and moves on top of thoses. But smash has an already loaded stick. Where blocking dodges, jumps and "motion inputs", need to stay away from. Making the general mechanics of dodging, jumping, shielding, and specials, use regular buttons with directions like normal attacks. Making it hard to add new general mechanics. Think about it. In street fighter, all games use 2 buttons of the same strength to use their general mechanics. Blocking is holding back. Dash are double tap. And specials are motions or a dedicated button. But that the neat part, a singe dedicated button isn't too much. Especialy if you have a 4 button layout for normals. Where as in smash. Dashing is more important, so it's just movement, and so you need another way of doing dodges. Wich is done with the block button that can't be on the stick either. So here you go, one less button. Jumping with up is durable but preferably you want to keep up for directional attacks. So a second button is gone. Then specials is extremely nich as a motion input. So a third button. And if you want strong atta k separated from lights, for purposes of keyboards or other digital imputs. Then a 4th button. And you already have 5 buttons with only 2 for attacks. Now also consider that grab is often anotyer button when the game has it. But when it isn't it's shield and attack. And you are left with one more unusable button, or shield special as your only button combinaison left. Wich is actualy pretty good. But consider regular fighting games don't consider blocking as an action in itself. And so you can do anything out of holding block. Where as in plateform fighters. Blocking stop you from doing anything. So some buttons are already meant to be used out of shield without any compromises. Such as upsepcails in smash, jump in almost every plateform fighter, and up strong in smash. Looking at other games general mechanics. Like rivals. Wave dash isn't a button press. Nor a combinations of buttons really. Even if that's te hnicaly what it is. It's a combination of 2 mechanics. That have just been eased to the point it's almost like a sf6 parry input. But still. In games like mvc2. You can do thoses movements like wave dash. And stil have room for other inputs. And so what you end up with. Are games that mostly distinguish those selves by what franchises are used. Rivals don't have a shield or grab. No ledge grab, wall jumps instead, and wave dash included. OK. That's different from smash. But is it that different. Appart from general character design. No. The shield is repvaled with a parry. And the same exact mechanics are in both games. Nick 2 tried having a general mechanic button. And while it's great. Having to press the buttons in a certain order to do a single move is kinda wierd in a plateform fighter. As this button is used for everything. Meaning if you hold it in preparation, any other button press might trigger an unwanted move. Like a double jump for example. But mainly a dodge. Making spending bar out of combos really wierd. Making the only real difference plateform fighters can make between each other. The single buttons mechanics working together naturally. Like wave dash. Rivals is the best example of that. But is also quite underwhelming as the new rivals is getting more smash mechanics than the first one. Like shield, grab, and ledge. And for their new mechanics they are introducing. Mainly special variants of regular attack button. Like a special getup attack. Or a special pummle when grabbed. And being able to fast fall after any hit. But that entire debacle is dumb from the start. Tekken didn't invented 3d fighters by copying street fighter. When they added motion inputs. They did in a way that made sense for tekken. The input itself give you the special. And like most things in tekken it put you in a stance from wich moves can come out. Suppers arnt a thing. Instead you manage time because rounds are shorts and you need to find openings and conversions to make the best out of your large move pool. Where as super (even they found a way to work) would tip that balance over by just blowing people up. Back dash arnt invincibles. Almost no projectiles as a side step would be enouth to avoid them. Instead of left right mix ups you have left... Well right mi ups but from the character pout of view. Etc. I feel like smash has monopolized this genre for so long that the bases of what a plateform fighter should be hasn't been decided. Smash has barely changed in what you can do in each game. But what's smash showed is that some things as simple as sliding from a plateform can make 2 games a extremely different. 2 plateform fighters are different from one another by the different way ou plateform. Character design directions. And then and only then, a quirky mechanic,

[@PrincipalSkinner3190]

Probably would have preferred it tbh

[@kingofdragons7]

Good thing it didn't work, because now we have 2xko

[@rooflemonger]

well 2xko was a thing well before this attempted game was. I knew of 2xko in different forms for at least like, 4 years now?

[@kingofdragons7]

@@rooflemonger i know, i'm just saying that it's good that we only got 2xko because they can focus more on that game and i personality prefer a tag fighting game than a platform fighter

[@cocosdad]

So you’re telling me WB is even fucking up games from other companies

[@billbosconovitch752]

Whos riot?

[@kauanjos3199]

League's developer

[@markmessi9020]

Thank the lord they cancelled that game. Another nickolodeon trash stars or multifailure that doesnt need to exist. The only good platform fighter is smash and to a smaller extent Rivals of aether.

[@MajinFernie]

Cancelled has 2 L's. Fix it.

[@FudGnut]

As a competitive melee player, I can tell you that we are dying for a game as good as melee but with developer support. If anybody could have pulled it off, it was Riot. Such a shame to see this cancelled. Also, the other smash clones failed because they weren't good enough, not because there was a lack of interest. Multiversus was too slow and the combat didnt feel good (contrary to popular belief, I think people dont care about the monetization if the game is good). Brawlhalla wasn't really the same but it found success in its own corner. NASB was close to success but I think the art style was just barely not good enough. Rivals of Aether and Rivals 2 are probably the closest and most successful smash clones we have

[@vroomzoom4206]

I woupd have loved a platform fight with LoL characters