Integra Pioneer Onkyo Flagships - In House Review - Part 1 - Overview & First Look

[@explodingsidewalk1820]

Thanks Jon for this "Start Off" review for these models. Your reviews of these models will most likely determine which one to purchase. I have been waiting awhile for these comparisons. I appreciate all the hard work you put in. Can't wait.

[@ripewave]

Thanks for sticking with me as we navigate the many of the brands which address 7.1.4 and beyond speaker configurations for under $5,000. I hope you end up with the best option to meet your goals. -Jon

[@borlach321]

I like the Integra layout the best. The rear panel is so easy to read.

[@ripewave]

Yes - I prefer the Integra color scheme of the back as well. Certainly easier to reed. -Jon

[@mohansrinivasan6082]

more so the quality of components inside integra is superior than others

[@mohansrinivasan6082]

i own a very old A V receiver, that is named "ONKYO Integra" in which ONKYO themselves said they have combination of quality products of Integra into that , the model was TX-DS989, that was flagship on the year 2000 that was sold in US between 4000 to 5000 USD. `honestly till today it rocks like anything with THX-Ultra, May be its older version, but still i can not compared it with my another TX-RZ3100 which is somewhat latest.

[@Audiomainia2310]

Thanks!

[@ripewave]

I appreciate the donation. Thanks so much. -Jon

[@Audiomainia2310]

@@ripewave You do great work my friend. It's the least I can do to show my appreciation. Happy Thanksgiving!!

[@askmatt7283]

A lot of firepower in that room all at once. Looking forward to the remaining reviews in this series. Keep up the good work 🍺

[@ripewave]

Thanks for the encouragement. I find this type is analysis fun and revealing. Getting part 3 organized this weekend. -Jon

[@carlosarques]

Great review!. This is the proper way to compare among similar receivers (so simirar that is even confusing) so we can decide properly on the next purchase and don't make any mistakes. Thanks.

[@ripewave]

I aim not to make mistakes on the review as well. Trying to be fair, consistent and meaningful with the tests being executed. -Jon

[@tstfam]

You are a true engineer.@@ripewave I've come to realize that Andrew Robinson reviews are basically a joke. He just has high production value.

[@mohansrinivasan6082]

All the three are same company,

[@stackoverflow8260]

Thanks Jon! My 8.4 is supposed to be here tomorrow. Just installed the height channels (Bose 161s, because of unique 2 x driver orientation), also installed wiring (i have bluejeans belden lying around). I went with Integra because of XLR, Chromecast, DLBC. XLRs are almost insurance against ground hum and induced noise. DLBC is simply the best out there for bass control. Having used dirac full range correction enabled miniDSP products in 2 channel extensively, i know how hard bass control can be.. as soon the sound comes out of the speakers, all bets are off w.r.t bass.

[@ripewave]

Sounds like you have your system well planned. I am anticipating good things from the Integra DRX-8.4. Hope you are successful with your purchase. -Jon

[@stackoverflow8260]

@ripewave yes Jon! My big attempt to encourage my wife to take part in movies and do regular movie days! I have been 2 channel guys, but I think that multi channel is the correct approach for both music and movies.

[@ripewave]

It is an approach I have taken and really like the multi-channel for my music. -Jon

[@jb.2986]

No Auro 3D support means NO-GO. Great to see these flagships (other than the Sony) have it. Can't repeat it enough Jon....auromatic upmixing of multichannel music sources is just so good for our fam. Also interesting to see that sub out on the zone control. You're right, that is unique. Thanks for the overview and enjoy the music powerfully, accurately...and loudly. :-))

[@ripewave]

Somehow I know you would have an Auro-3D comment. I have a connection now with the Auro company who sent me demonstration disks 1 and 2. He is willing to help me properly understand their technology. Will be testing with these flagships. -Jon

[@ranakirti]

Auro 3D recognising the GOAT of AV reviewers....!!!

[@richp3744]

@jb.2986 - sorry to bother and Jon has mentioned it a bit. But Auro3D is that much of a deal huh? Music? Streaming, cd? I heard maybe sports as well upmixing was amazing? Genuinely interested as I’m looking at receivers. Jon has me convinced I think I need to have Auro3D. 😅😊

[@ripewave]

Too kind.

[@ripewave]

I have heard all perspectives on Auro-3D - must have, nice to have and don't care. I like having the option and I do find it outperforms with a lot of content. I do mix it up and enjoy the other upmixers as well. @jb.2986 takes the 100% Auro-3D position, and I think that is fine. Stick with your preferences. I feel you need the option available to know if it is for you. I feel, most who have the Auro-Matic upmixer on their system, like it at least for some content. -Jon

[@MrYamaha413]

great comparison would be great to hear the differences between them, same songs or movies just to compare ?

[@ripewave]

Yes- That is how I intend to execute the comparison. The A/B/C switcher I use lets me quickly switch. I have a switcher for each pair of speakers (Front, Center, Side Surround, Rear Surround, Height 1, Height 2, Subwoofer 1/2) so I can isolated a pair as needed. I also use an HDMI 4K splitter so I can send that same HDMI outputs to all units under test (up to 4). I have two of those, one splits the UHD Blu Ray Player, and the other splits the Apple TV source so there is no lag - that get the same signals at the same time. -Jon

[@giovanni1269]

Looking at the Integra 8.4 on their website, they show the unit power at 150w 2 ch. driven, on your video, you have it at 140w. Also the chips are 9026 for Yamaha and Integra. In my opinion you shouldn’t leave Marantz or Sony 7000 out of the comparison as the 8.4 is just as comparable with the others being the flagships.

[@ripewave]

Thanks for checking. That is a typo starting on slide 13. Before that I had the Integra at 150W into 2ch. You are also right about the Yamaha DAC being at ES9026. That one was copied from another presentation, so I may have made that error a while ago and you are first to know better. Sorry about that and thanks so much for setting the record straight. I was matching channel count (7.1.4) and price point. The Sony STR-AZ7000ES is essentially a STR-AZ5000ES with 2 extra channels and a little more power. They are very close. I can fit 9 models in my chart without flipping to another page, so I try not to go before that count. If I was to add Marantz flagship, would I add the AV10 (flagship processor), Cinema 40 (flagship new AVR) or SR8015 (older flagship AVR)? I decided to go Denon AVR-X4800H (which is comparable to the Cinema 40) but $1000 less. These can be tough calls. Thanks again - Jon

[@BrianGarside]

Cant wait! Curious on the difference between the Onkyo and Integra units. What you get with the extra $$ on the DRX 8.4 XLR being the obvious.

[@ripewave]

That is the big question I hope to clarify. -Jon

[@IvanF-m8w]

Are you sure that the table (21:20) correctly lists only 4K60 and 8K for the Pioneer HFR, when it is 4K120 and 8K60 for the other two?

[@ripewave]

That was an error. They all support 4K120, 8K60. I quickly scanned all when creating and overlooked that entry. Thanks for raising. I corrected in the source document. -Jon

[@JC-eh5be]

Great video! Any news on Dirac ART implementation on flagship models ?

[@ripewave]

I have not heard of any products beyond Storm Audio (currently - first to support) and Monoprice HTP-1 (potential for future release) which will support DIRAC ART. However, the embargo is over where Storm had an exclusive. I think we will hear more announcements early next year. -Jon

[@jimfalco8302]

can’t wait to see this review. will you be testing actual wattage produced for two and all channels for each receiver?

[@ripewave]

Part 2 was released early this week and I am getting Part 3 ready today. Going to explore the room calibration further. I don't have the test equipment to measure actual wattage produced. I would expect these will be close to each other. The 140W of the Onkyo vs the 150W of the Pioneer and Integra isn't enough to worry about. However, I take your ask as wanting to know if it is really delivering around that range and what the all channels driven measurements are. I would love to be able to have that capability in the future. The test process has to be well developed as well. Test equipment is no good without an engineered approach. I do have an engineering background, so I would ensure the appropriate and repeatable process is used consistently for each model examined. -Jon

[@juve7]

Thorough.

[@ripewave]

Thank you!

[@garykarczewski6678]

A couple of corrections for you Jon. The price of the 5000ES is $2099, not $2299. The HDMI for the Sony is HDMI 2.3 as per Sony tech support. I wouldn't concern oneself of QMS / QMT.

[@ripewave]

The prices on these tend to fluctuate +/- a few hundred. Thanks for updating with current. Double check the HDMI version. Currently HDMI 2.1b is currently the latest standard per www.hdmi.org/. Perhaps they were referring to High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) 2.3, which is the latest copy protection standard released in 2018 - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection. In reviewing slide 20, I see that I had indicated all models as HDMI 2.1 and HDCP 2.3 compliant. I don't bother with the minor update indications (HDMI 2.1a, HDMI 2.1b) as most brands don't specify the minor; so I just drop from all. Quick Media Switching (QMS) eliminates the blackout when new video starts up. Is there a reason why that is not important? If it works as advertised, I think I would want it - I find the blackouts annoying. Quick Frame Transport (QFT) removes latency for smoother no-lag gaming. We have game consoles and what to optimize their displays. Let me know if there is more to understand about those HDMI 2.1 features. Jon

[@mattiaippolito1625]

Can you please test/let us know if using the analog input as source either RCA or XLR if there is any way the unit will output sound from main LR and SUB(s) in a 2.1 flavor even if actual speaker connection is 7.1. I'm trying to understand that but not able to (and is that possible with the Yamaha A8A as well or not?)

[@ripewave]

I tried both the RCA (single-ended) and XLR (balanced) connection the Pioneer and Integra models which supported XLR. I found no difference in sound quality, but distances were short and noise was not an issue. The Yamaha A8A only has XLR (balanced) for the front L and R channels, which I found to be odd. The subwoofers are more likely to be positioned further away and subject to noise. -Jon

[@mattiaippolito1625]

@@ripewave but when an analog input (so two channels stereo inputs) si fed to either one of those unit do we have a way to have music coming from main LR + Sub? Or the sub output will be disabled?

[@SathishKumar-tk4qx]

Hi Sir good morning. I was watching your video , very good information you have presented. I looking for 7. 2 AVR with 100 x 2 watts stereo class AB. 4K or 8K I need music audio good quality of sounds. Music videos I watch more. Movie videos normal. I am a music listener. So which is one ☝️ should I buy. Please let me know. I am waiting Black Friday purchase. Not very expensive ones ☝️like Marantz Anthem, Arcam Emotiva. ThanksSir. 🙏

[@ripewave]

Not expensive, supports 7.2, at least 100W (x2), class AB, good quality of sound for music. I like the Onkyo TX-RZ50 (1st choice - $1,199) or Sony STR-AZ5000ES (2nd choice - $2,098). If you need independent subwoofer outputs and Auro-3D, then I would consider Yamaha RX-A6A ($2,449) ; but that adds around $1000 to the cost. Both sound better then Denon AVR-X4800H ($1,875 recent price drop) and Marantz Cinema 40 ($3,500).

[@SathishKumar-tk4qx]

@@ripewave Ok sir thank you so much , Let me check the specification of Onkyo Tx Rz 50.

[@williamhicks2763]

Would be curious if the doors on the Pioneer and Onkyo are plastic or metal? The lower cost Pioneer door that Zeos reviewed warranted a 20 minute rant about how cheap it felt an it was even coming apart.

[@ripewave]

Good question - I investigated. The results.... Onkyo TX-RZ70 - feels like solid metal (likely hollow inside, but gives the impression that it is solid Pioneer - metal veneer on the front, plastic inside So the model that is $200 more expensive, is more plastic. Very odd. Start the rant... Jon

[@williamhicks2763]

@@ripewave 😂. Thanks for checking into it. That could also be the reason they want you to push on the bottom, rather than pull from the top. If you pull the top edge enough it will probably start to separate like the cheaper one on Z Reviews. It’s just glued together unless this higher end model has some screws.

[@thelonewolf666]

its mindblowing no avrs have a earth connection from the power source, crazy,

[@ripewave]

I wonder why that is the case. Perhaps an electrical engineer can weigh in. My feeling is that earth ground can only help. -Jon

[@roco9504]

Super flagship? Nah hopefully an LX-905 / RZ90 with class D will be the true flagship! Still holding on to my lx901 since I like class D. I may have to go with a class A/B with separate amp tho at this rate

[@ripewave]

I get your point. There is a level above that is not yet addressed by these Premium Audio Co. brands. I have felt the same about Yamaha and Sony. Either a 16+ channel receiver or processor separate is needed. -Jon

[@ripewave]

Also… class D. I have found it experimentally odd that these brands have a banded class D just when it is gaining traction. The sound quality has been addressed and it is possible to have a class D design that equals or betters class AB without the heat or weight. I believe it comes down to a make vs buy decision. These companies can make a Class AB amplifier as less cost then they can buy a Class D for the suppliers. While they could make their own Class D, it could be they can’t execute at the same level as Purifi or Hypex.

[@jimfalco8302]

coming from a pioneer sc-95 class d amp to the current lx-805 i can say it’s night and day better with speaker control, room eq , and overall sound quality. Dirac is amazing and really cleans up the room problems. As for power, i can play music and movies louder with less degradation to sound quality. The 805 has great sound quality and has really taken my speakers to the next level. That’s why i’m curious what this receiver can push as far as wattage for two and all channels.

[@MikeS-y2i]

Hi Jon, Nice introduction to these amps, I am waiting for you before buying the Marantz cinéma 40 or Onkyo RZ70. About Integra , it is still ugly and the same design for ages, what's wrong with their products designers/managers (just my point of view). It's 2023🤔

[@ripewave]

I think the new owners decided to focus on getting the features and pricing right in this first round. Keeping the seems look and feel establishes that they intend on preserving the heritage of these famous brands. However, it would them well to introduce a new design language in the next round to say that they are now ready to move these brands into the future. -Jon

[@Eki274]

My rz70 przyjedzie DHL w poniedziałek.Szkoda że nie było srebrnych modeli tych amplitunerów.Mam Nadzieję że Onkyo rz70 pokona moje Onkyo rz1100.Z tego co widzę tylko rz70 nie ma metalowego pokrętła głośności jak rz1100.Ale najważniejajest dzwię

[@ripewave]

I hope you find that the RZ70 outperforms the older model. Onkyo has not gone silver for the latest models. -Jon

[@BrianGarside]

Thanks!

[@ripewave]

Thanks so much for the donation. Sorry I fell behind on my responses over the last two weeks. So much going on. Let me know if there is anything I am missing. This weekend I will examine the other two approaches to room calibration these are capable of. After that I will be able to provide the user experience and sound comparison videos. -Jon