Rise and decline of science in Islam

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BAKU - With about 1.6 billion adherents, Islam is the second largest religion on Earth. Yet, its followers represent less than one percent of the world’s scientists. Only a handful of people from Muslim-majority countries have won Nobel Prizes in science.
However, up until the Mongol siege of Baghdad in 1258, Islamic science was the most advanced in the world. In comparison with the past, the modern disparity is staggering. Thus, to understand the present-day lack of scientific accomplishments, we must explore the past. In this instalment of a new series, we will go over the rise and decline of Islamic attitudes towards science.
Soundtrack:
Decisions Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
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[@HisShadow]

Depressing that the Muslim world has devolved to such a state today.

[@al-muwaffaq341]

HisShadow Most of the scholars today try to reject Science. When we should try to claim it

[@al-muwaffaq341]

Scholars back then loved science and philosophy

[@XD-qx6sq]

Walter De wit are u idiot?

[@thestatistician6076]

@Dimosthenis Karamparpas lol moron. That is why all religious scholars back then used to learn different sciences and teach them. Maybe for some of your greeks stranded on some tiny islands that was the case with your churches, but neither muslim in iran, iraq, anatolia, egypt, transoxiana, the levant....., nor byzantine greeks in thrace, macedon, anatolia,... and catholics in the HRE and italy were like how you think of religion at the time.

[@mhmdabou2747]

@Walter De wit Greek philosophy only came from the west . try to read more racist .

[@jaysonbabcock4055]

The amount of research you must have done to cover this level of nuance and detail is impressive to say the very least.

[@jessicali8594]

Secondary sources abound in the Stratfor Institute and similar.

[@Qclegendary]

kk kk kk kk kk II kk IIy jII ey il II y II IIII yy II II IIy II y II II II II je je II je II II II IIIh y Je Y II II j'je II je II Y II y II II II IIy II II II II II II yy II II II II IIJky Jk un II II yy II II Jey je y II y II II II II II jey II II II IIy jeter un II II

[@forthepotentates7526]

It's literally all on wikipedia lol, unless you are lazy this info is not hard to find at all.

[@JackyMan22]

Christians are more gifted than Muslims. fact.

[@JackyMan22]

@Arastushukooh which religion made the first rocketship to the moon?

[@batelshimoni1078]

This video really brought me to tears. It is very rare for a researcher to be completely neutral, engaging and vibrant while narrating their work in an interesting manner. Professional scholarship is still alive and well. May it flourish some more for posterity's sake. Blessings to you, CaspianReport.

[@Kr4zYm0f0]

Its not nutral but biased towards islam.

[@Hikurac]

In what way was it biased towards Islam? The resounding theme of the video is Islam lost its enlightenment virtues and the Islamic world underwent decay.

[@Kr4zYm0f0]

Yes they inherrited the roman and persian empires. Thats a nice way to say they where conquered, ofcourse downplaying violence is not biased at all.

[@bakeojiisan7626]

Plenty of people say that in all sorts of contexts. It's by no means biased. Romans also inherited Greek culture, by which we mean the Greeks got fucking raped.

[@disastrousduckling]

This is brutally true.

[@edfer81]

We swap places today. Islam now looks like European middle ages. Sad story

[@ChrisPBacon-lu6wd]

And that shit is coming to Europe because the leaders don't care and they just want more people wherever they come from and they are accepting funding of Salafi shit from Saudi Arabia. Hopefully, that's going to be reversed at some point

[@alexjones3556]

Portrait of muhammad for my brothers: 🦮 It's a blind man's dog!

[@yuvalgabay1023]

This is inaccurate view on things. Yes antile 900-1000 Europe was a back water..but after that there was the high middel ages(antile the black plage) a time of amazing progress and quit a rise of life quality.

[@fabiandonvil]

@@josephfreeman3816 neat comment but why are there so many Z's in your comment??

[@bbbl8910]

Irish Monastries kept the light of learning going I have heard.

[@Yasininat]

I am an avid history reader from Turkey. We have really good books here. I can easily confirm that this content is distilled the most important events and turns in Middle East history successfully. Amazing work. I am really surprised how you could make this amount of history to fit in just one hour time. Brilliant CaspianReport. Thank you.

[@canopusinthenorth]

Would appreciate if you could recommend some books..iam especially interested in mutazila thought

[@yurichtube1162]

Vote erdogan out

[@yurichtube1162]

@Kdrgrpkdrgrp no, there is someone who can replace erdogan. Sellahadin Demirtas, currently imprisoned. If we move to the hague and international community, we can free that man. He is the only man who can save Turkey. Study his life, and ignore turkish media please. The man studied medicine at one point and later became a lawyer because of personal reasons (for his sister. Google it, I am sure you can find the story). He is not a terrorist, that is a fabrication. There is more proof that erdogan bought oil from isis then Sellahadin Demirtas being a terrorist. There is no concrete proof against Sellahadin Demirtas and he is still awaiting his trial (he hasn't been judged, because they know he will win). Please, vote HDP.

[@yurichtube1162]

@Kdrgrpkdrgrp are you crazy? You think HDP wants to create a second North Korea or something🤣🤣🤣🤣? You are wrong in many ways. First of all, PKK and Isis and alqaeda or whatever are completely different. One is atheist, other is muslim. Not all terrorists are friends, silly guy. Matter of fact, PKK and YPG killed many isis in Syria. They filled them with bullets and slaughtered isis jihadis like the worthless pigs they are. They would do the same to alqaeda. Second of all, Kurds wants to EXIST. Yes, that is right. We are people and wish to exist, crazy right? We want an autonomous state at the maximum like Northern Iraq and Kurdish to be recgonised as an official languague at the minimum. If you have a problem with that, then YOU are a racist and have no reason to cry that Europe hates muslims and turks. Because you act the same way. Proof that you have no problem with Kurds, free Sellahadin Demirtas, make him president over erdogan and support HDP. If not, then I guess we are enemies. Our war is not over, it will get much worse.

[@yurichtube1162]

@Kdrgrpkdrgrp also, AKP steal Kurdish votes by throwing them in the trash. My uncle verified that, who lives in turkey in the bigger cities. He said he voted HDP, as well as many people he knows. And when he saw the bags, he saw all of them were falsified to become AKP like they were prepared to switch these bags. Also, he saw people throwing votes in the trash. Since erdogan controls the police and millitairy, he can personally say he lies and imprison him for life. Is that democracy? Is that islam?

[@overmanonfire]

you forgot to mention something really important Free of speech was granted to the point that different religion were free to debate even in the court of the khalifa, the Roman catholic pope called Baghdad "the capital of Infidelity" even practical science discoveries contradiction to religious held believes was not a life threatening position

[@Mekalor]

To think that such things are unimaginable in Islamic countries, a thousand years later. And things like Isis can exist.

[@overmanonfire]

@@Mekalor when civilization decline, radicals arise and take control. literal understanding instead of deep knowledge and comprehension.

[@pejsacek]

@@overmanonfire This being the sole reason of my existential crisis stemming now from about 10 years ago- I was basically a kid by then but being somewhat receptive you feel the nuances, later in life educate yourself enough to give them a name. As a lower class in the middle of Europe I am horrified about the seemingly unimportant, however gradually rising, shift of the political climate, people's mindset and general understanding of "normal" in the past two decades. Almost all the factors in Europe's momentum-gaining decline can be tracked back and attributed to the climate change, which is only a small taste of what is to come, since it finally starts manifesting it's ever increasing exponential effect, however as usual, will not be accounted for. Instead, we shall witness yet again the importance of a race, nation, religion or whatever else. However hard I try to envision the future, all I see is dust, billions in agony and misery. And yet again, the biggest suffering will be brought onto those who carry no crime, no responsibility nor guilt for the simple fact that they have been born.

[@overmanonfire]

@@pejsacek you are in different level of intellect, i truly agree and glad to come across some one like you .

[@alialahmad4329]

Well that heavly dependent on thr kalif remember ibn almoukafa'

[@olbradley]

This is a little too good for KZbin, why don't I see this guy on professional platforms? No seriously this guy deserves more.

[@neutral5793]

Because his argument is fundamentally flawed. Christians don't say rise of science in Christianity. People who do science are responsible not the religion their state practice..

[@olbradley]

Neutral But that’s not his argument, he is saying that during the Islamic golden age scientific study flourished within the Islamic world. He is not saying it is because of Islam, but rather he is simply stating the facts that lead up to and occurred in this era of scientific study and its downfall. He never said that because they are Muslim they are smart. Islam is simply the context. Your last statement is correct, people are not inherently anything because of their religion. However he [Caspian Report] is not arguing what you are saying he is, but rather is explaining the context and the facts.

[@hjedits657]

@@neutral5793 christians cant say because christianity has nothing to do with science on the other hand Quran and Islam emphasize on research and innovation.

[@neutral5793]

@@hjedits657 Christians can make the same statement. And I don't want to comment about Quran. And this guy said the downfall happened because of outside invasion. That's funny because he didn't research the amount of loot and destruction done by the so called Islamic world. The whole region was way more open minded in the time of religions like Zoroastrianism..

[@hjedits657]

@@neutral5793 He didn't say that outside invasion was the sole reason for the downfall, inner political conflicts were the major source and outside invasion acccelerated the deterioration process. And btw this channel is known for its quality research work.

[@crowofcainhurst]

I had muslim friend he was extremely smart kid at school he was a mathematical genius, but he moved to Saudi to pursue islamic study in university. I asked him why he didn't try to apply for MIT or STEM related dicipline since he's so good at science. He told me science is the work of the devil and he doesn't want to be damned to hell. I am totally floored.

[@ASLUHLUHC3]

In the 21st century no less

[@minagica]

So sad, so much talent is actively destroyed by this religious ideology... Muslims are the primary victims of Islam

[@elvan12581]

Then he wasn't a muslim.

[@minagica]

@@elvan12581 🤦‍♀️

[@elvan12581]

@@minagica I'm serious. Islam is a lovely religion with a majority of despicable followers who primarily adhere to this ignorant and self-destructive point of view. It perpetuates generation after generation until you have a nation living in the dark ages, who have all the Islamic practices but none of the essence, virtues and pursuit of enlightenment that it implores you to strive for.

[@babbar123]

This entire lecture is worth a PhD thesis.

[@George-iv1hi]

Nope, rather hard ass kicking - the man is just a moron.

[@uchicha666]

@@George-iv1hi could you elaborate please

[@George-iv1hi]

@@uchicha666 There is no science in islam, stupidity only. What to elaborate? Read the quran and tafsirs, it is all clear there.

[@George-iv1hi]

@YOUSEF OK, I will show you how stupid you are - you think that I am alone, one man - no, my dear, I am the whole western civilization, we have scholars who know ancient Arabic better than you, we have archeologists, historians, they have analyzed your quran an their opinion is my opinion. I do not need to study your islam myself, because many wise men did it before and they came to the conclusion, that your cult is pagan and false - I agree with them. So do not try to fool me, because you can't. Your quran is very stupid book especially in Arabic, where it can not escape its stupidity - you are brainwashed people, we are not.

[@aliffarifen]

@@George-iv1hi What is the name of your institution? How can we get access to your research and materials to substantiate your claim saying that The Quran is stupid? Please deduce it :)

[@chahinebinsaleh6954]

Wow Shirvan, just wow! This is some amazing academic visual work. I salute you for this exquisite production, narration, and condensed valuable information.

[@GuyShōtō]

He's on a whole another level of scholarly analysis and production. And that voice oh my his voice is just perfect narration.

[@nr1NPC]

*Dont ask, just believe* - the typical Mullah

[@chahinebinsaleh6954]

@@nr1NPC did I ask anyone to believe in anything though?

[@GHOSTrex1324]

@@nr1NPC shut up degenerate. Bhakt probably 😒😒

[@aweslayne]

When islam used to be this cool and productive unlike today’s chaotic state

[@joebowden4065]

Who has created the chaos I wonder Joshua

[@bnbcraft6666]

@Noah Big boy if you're not Muslim what are you now?

[@bnbcraft6666]

@NotOften Told that's literally anyone a part of an abrahamic religion, you'd have to also follow the teachings of the Quran to be a Muslim

[@Gamalonomics]

Baghdad was both Vegas and Oxford of the world :) Look at Baghdad now. Women walking around in black tents and sexist misogynists controlling the fate of the country. So sad.

[@Elementa2006]

@hednersgame911 it's a combination of Muslims becoming too fundamental, Western colonization and the rise of social and political corruption within the Muslim world

[@moamenabdelkawy5718]

This is amazingly accurate. I'm Egyptian, born in a conservative family, and I was taught the history of Islam when I was young. I didn't spot any inaccuracy during your hour-long video. This must've been an enormous task for you. Many many thanks.

[@SheikhAlladeen]

what happened to Islam it went back in time to become obsolete like the Prophet said.

[@Amadeo790]

No matter weather it is good or bad, a true historian desires to seek the truth at all angles. Seems this man did an amazing job and should be proud to be a man of history.

[@jackbarhillel1065]

Islam never had any science. What you call Islamic science was either Jewish (from Andalus) or Persian. Arabs never produced anything. All they do is wine, complain, and pretend.

[@jackbarhillel1065]

Even the Coran was Christian, the Meccan part. This is all widely proved. Check the works of Luxenberg (LUXENBERG, yes, no typo). Do it..

[@redriddler1231]

@@jackbarhillel1065 Quran*

[@goncaloteixeira8009]

I watch this every year, it's a great piece that shows how civilizations are shaped by ideas and progress is never assured.

[@ASLUHLUHC3]

And how ideas are shaped by politics

[@OmarSlloum]

When the Mongols show up with modern siege equipment *curb your enthusiasm plays*

[@philosoftfurkitusjunkyard2462]

islam and science, nomadic people with siege weapon... i need some time to wrap around all this.

[@OmarSlloum]

@@philosoftfurkitusjunkyard2462 gfy

[@philosoftfurkitusjunkyard2462]

@@OmarSlloum oh, thank you. it's better than the options i had.

[@OmarSlloum]

@@philosoftfurkitusjunkyard2462 ah I see we have ourselves a comedian.

[@philosoftfurkitusjunkyard2462]

@@OmarSlloum first i thought you called me goofy also true.

[@themaxys235]

Superb quality content. Just a little criticism from my side - when you are talking about some regions of the ancient map - it would be very informative if named regions would be highlighted at same time.

[@ethangellman4563]

Agree

[@naughtyUphillboy]

It will require more effort........something that requires more money & Time.......things you tubers don't have....particularly money

[@cristianvillanueva8782]

@@naughtyUphillboy honestly I was really glad to see this video still have adds two years after its release

[@naughtyUphillboy]

@@cristianvillanueva8782 It gets views......& this video is worth it.

[@cristianvillanueva8782]

@@naughtyUphillboy agreed

[@thebreadbringer]

It is a crime against history that this is place and time period are so rarely discussed in western curricula. Truly some of the richest history I have heard in a good while.

[@lordtalosgaming1448]

It's no crime at all. One shouldn't be surprised that Western history is Eurocentric, for it is written by people of European origin. If it weren't for European historians, many people around the world wouldn't know anything about their own past.

[@redriddler1231]

Curriculum*

[@riteshyeddu]

@@lordtalosgaming1448 it's just a matter of time, people would eventually discover their own pasts sooner or later, european historians or not

[@suntzu8290]

This is not surprising Westerners have always been characterized by dishonesty in scientific transmission. There are many inventions, discoveries and works that Western scholars attribute to themselves when they belong to Muslims. Contrary to Muslims, when they translated Persian, Indian and Greek works, they attributed the works to their owners Just look at the extent of media distortion that Muslims are exposed to

[@DrDanQ92]

@@riteshyeddu And how would that be possible when many of said people do not have any written documents describing their history of their own?

[@AtheusMaximus]

Give this Man a budget! I can just imagine what great documentaries he would make.

[@alexjones3556]

Don't worry dude he's got one

[@gcxs]

follow him on patreon

[@WarPigstheHun]

This makes me so sad to see science come and go. It really shows us how it is Knowledge that creates Well-fare. Every single Tribal in Modern Iraq who've been interviewed have stressed the importance for building schools. It is sad that it is the barbaric anti-intellectual terrorists in power, and not these individuals desiring for a higher education.

[@seanmac1793]

It's all the fucking the same. I have had phases high nilhism, the first watch of rules for rulers, the first time I really grasped geopolitics, etc. but this is the highest its ever been.

[@aaronlalembaarook5626]

Sean Mac explain

[@sneakydoge476]

As a Muslim I am sad that is true

[@rainmanslim4611]

Sadly the new schools built in Iraq are often reliant on Saudi funding and teach a wahhabi curriculum. Which only makes the problem worse

[@ChrisPBacon-lu6wd]

@@rainmanslim4611 Someone has to teach Saudi Arabia a lesson. I just hope their new young leader wants to end all this wahhabi shit since he's been making efforts to modernise the country.

[@PicklePickle7]

The background music is soothing and calming. Great choice.

[@basartv5880]

One of my favorites. A caucasian folk song. In turkish and azeri, its called:"Sari Gelin". Meaning yellow (blond) bride. The choice of this music in my opinion is due to the fact the song being sorrowfull.

[@munumun]

music is called "sarı gelin"

[@el_prezz]

HAhaaa funny kid little timmy.

[@JavidanHusseinJr]

sari gelin)

[@turankesilmis5655]

This is a song called sarı gelin. is related to the love of the kipchak princess and a turkish villager.

[@AvoidTheCadaver]

"None wanted to confront and test the wrath of the Mongols" So tempting to say Wrath of Khan eh. A fantastic video

[@siddhinaik6650]

Khan means leader of tribe not a muslim ghengis khan was not muslim

[@ahsenkhan5386]

@Neil Rusling don;t bother he one of those that shout without thinking and thinks he is teh victim THey have ruin islam with stupidity

[@ahsenkhan5386]

@@siddhinaik6650 what are YOU talking about ?! THis is not what he said ! stop making stuff that has nothing to do simply becuase you think he hates islam!!!!!!

[@TheTobyvancouver]

@@ahsenkhan5386 It is a reference to the first Star Trek movie, Star Trek: Wrath of Khan. In the movie, Khan was a renegade scientist bent on destroying a planet.

[@EhoodGarmiza]

@@TheTobyvancouver It's the second Star Trek Movie. The first good one, though...

[@adityac1991]

1 hr in depth videos by shirvan I love it. Its so engaging the time just flys . i did not even knew it was 1 hr till i completed the whole video. Love your work Shirvan.

[@carlosjimenez2369]

@@TheWersum Couldn't the same apply to all religions with scripture?

[@deadlygamer6689]

@@TheWersum The Quran literally supports scientific study and says that an educated and uneducated person can never be the same. The Quran literally uses a word (jahil) for the uneducated in urdu which goes to show how much education especially scientific and religious are necessary to Muslims but unfortunately most scholars don't tell this to their students these days.

[@deadlygamer6689]

@@TheWersum there is only one Quran. They are probably translations into different languages or in different forms of arabic. Quran is one.

[@deadlygamer6689]

@@TheWersum @RISING STAR FAISAL Native Arabs didn't need help in understanding quran but for people who don't understand Quran it was necessary to add helping signs that are used for pronunciation. *Its simple* Btw I did watch the video. Guy looked like an idiot for even trying to prove that. Basically grammatic difference exists but the meaning overall is the same.

[@tekmilletbirummet4808]

@@TheWersum Somebody actually watches CIRA here, lol

[@memesofarabia53]

I’m in absolute awe at this. Shirvan, your work has brought me to tears on my fallen civilization. Thank you and keep doing this brother.

[@pubgnoobplayers4647]

Islamic Golden age 😢😟😞😖

[@jordanssfor]

@@marhabacarpet8593 why tho, he literally said nothing but "Hey thanks for talking about the history of one of the most interesting civilisations in history" and you just call him a saudi degenerate? what good does this do? what have you achieved?

[@destroyerimo]

@@marhabacarpet8593 ur one petty kid, pathetic

[@Thirteenwindows]

@@marhabacarpet8593 you have a long road to achieve adulthood.

[@bobobobo3142]

​@@jordanssfor In this hate millions have died thousands of wars are fought and still we don't understand that we have achieved nothing but have always lost. I don't know when we will forget these differences and get along as a species. This hate is the reason behind most of the problems we are facing today.

[@jonnyxcontra]

This is why I love humanity, this man has absorbed enough data to be considered something similar to a biological google, and we get it all in an hour. Thank you my friend.

[@arrjay2410]

This is the best, and clearest, explanation of what happened to Islamic Scholarship and Culture I have ever seen. This is a fantastic Documentary, well above the standard I frequently see on KZbin. Well Done!

[@paulmakinson1965]

I went to a school with mixed European Arabic curriculum as a kid. I remember that the teachers in the Arabic section were biased towards rote learning (you had to parrot the teacher in exams to get a good grade), the ones in the European section wanted you to do your own thinking. This cultural traits is so deeply ingrained that the Arabic section teachers denied that they expected rote learning.

[@justabeardedguythatisahero9848]

paul please I Urge you to bring evidence, in comparison to all my american colleges I have a better education, even better in math than most I knew from foreign countries spare me your grief.

[@andrekoniger3020]

@@justabeardedguythatisahero9848 Just take a look at the results of any pisa study

[@sir_humpy]

European Arabic curriculum sounds like a travesty to me.

[@anon-le9fp]

As a muslim Myself I couldn't agree more nowdays muslim culture biased toward to elders always right without even using logic and how everything about the afterlife making muslim lazy doing research and progress since in the end it was meaningless. Its funny how its encourage individualism instead of helping to make the world a better place

[@honkhonk8009]

If our teachers did that in Canada, there would be riots LMFAO. Learning is understanding the actual material. The people who think independtly and learnt the material intuitively, are gonna replaced those who memorized off the teacher. Thats why STEM is important.

[@Rio-ke9he]

Impeccable report. Too bad majority of Muslims have no idea about this subject

[@thatguys4341]

Black Gold Islam good Christianity bad

[@jamaicanmeangry4143]

If taken literally, she was impregnated divinely, without contact, leaving her a virgin at His birth. If taken literally, Muhammad molested and married a six year old. Your "point" is non existent.

[@jamaicanmeangry4143]

@Black Gold Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, by becoming a curse for us; The messiah was to die according to prophecy, and did. That was His curse. Simple enough.

[@jamaicanmeangry4143]

@Black Gold How about the verses in koran allowing followers to worship other gods

[@jamaicanmeangry4143]

@Black Gold Surah 53:19-20.

[@harryzain]

Splendid video. I'm a documentary film director and I must say this is superb research and more importantly pieced together in a good storyline and sequence. With a proper budget, this should be a netflix documentary broken down to 2 part episodes. As always, love your content. Salute your work.

[@Bald_Zeus]

Man, so much incredibly interesting history that I've heard nothing about as a Swede. This is amazing.

[@jeromebarry1741]

Governments, all governments, teach their people a history that supports and seeks to extend the existence of that government.

[@behzodhasanov6810]

Truly agree with you

[@carso1500]

@@jeromebarry1741 nah, it's just that world history is inmense, just teaching the history of one country is usually already enough on schools, learning about this more obscure parts of history would take years

[@michaelbread5906]

Tbf, I know NOTHING about Swedish history. The only time you're mentioned is Leif Erikson, and Vikings in the 800's+, and that one guy who fought in the 30 years war. That's all I know about Sweden.

[@pimmeaxelsson3090]

@@jeromebarry1741 Sweden is tho an excpetion. We teach more history about Europe and America then Sweden, which makes most quite ignorant of our past.

[@chrismarinov2007]

Great work. I did a research paper in college on the consequences of the Mongol invasion to the Middle East. It's a fascinating subject.

[@Brenden667]

they changed the world

[@chrismarinov2007]

Brenden667 yes, the Mongol invasion absolutely changed the world forever. It ended the golden age of science in the Middle East and gave rise to theocracy and sectarianism that are very much alive to this day.

[@Brenden667]

Indeed. I read a great book by Anthropologist Jack Weatherford called "Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World." Very interesting stuff. Makes a lot of connections that most of us wouldn't think about today.

[@Kamranrrafi]

@Alex Damian What a derogatory claim

[@abubakrmuhammad4164]

@Alex Damian the documentary did try to make the same conclusion that religion limited scientific thinking, but i would like to disagree. It was religion (Islam in this case) which initially inspired critical thinking and exploration of the world/science. Decades down the line, limited thinking capacity/interest of the common man, various political pressures, and forceful implementation of consensuses hindered scientific progress. Laying all the cause on religion shows bias, or incomplete knowledge of facts. My sole interest in writing all this is to convey you that in no way does Islam, in its true spirit and form, hinder/discourage science, rather the exact opposite. (it commands to explore the workings of the world, a.k.a science). You can verify this on your own within 20 min of unbiased research on google.

[@Darkdragon5544]

2 years later, 3rd listen, still one of the most relevant historical account of the islamic golden age I have had the privilege to watch!! I really appreciate your way of describing and analysing Shirvan!! Cheers from Montreal :)

[@khango6138]

This is quickly becoming one of my favourite channels ever, on youtube or cable networks! I began watching your videos in mid 2020, and just got sucked into watching your earlier contents as well. Great work! Love from Vietnam.

[@jarrod5854]

"the group did not necessarily use the Quran as the only source of understanding, they believe that human exist was not predetermined and that human kind made decisions independently of gods will" this is massive, how come they managed to seperate the state and from their religion all those years ago, but modern arab nations cannot?

[@markusklyver6277]

Separation of church and state before it became polar in the West, wtf based

[@abukerim91]

Most arab countries are secular. Their main issue nowadays is corruption.

[@sampajam6256]

colonialisation killed most institution on it's way, and fanatics did the rest to obliterate what lasted

[@xiuhcoatl4830]

it's a complete cultural devolution. No wonder why the islamic world is in the state it is

[@karolusp.9741]

In the time of chaos people want certainty, and a single book of revelation gives that sense of certainty to anyone who believes it. Furthermore, Shirvan didn't mention that one of the beliefs of the Mutazila school is the view that the Quran is created. Such belief was borderline agnosticism, at least in the eyes of most Muslims at that time (hence why Ibn Hanbal was a popular figure).

[@marcoarenaza54]

I am impressed with all the emotions that come while learning this history. I have learned so much about the history of the Middle East from watching this, which is not well taught at school in the Americas, and it has let me with so many things to reflect. Thank you so much.

[@PresidentialWinner]

I don't think this stuff is taught anywhere. Not in this detail. You have to go to a university and specialize in Islamic history to find this much information in one place.

[@bonneydahlquist1857]

You should go to Egypt or any other arabic country where the history matters. Not the americas.

[@vkrgfan]

Bonney Dahlquist Go to Egypt? Come on bro, Egypt is over run by radical Islamists. Sadly, Lots of people interpret Quran literally in Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran and Sub Saharan Countries in Africa and Saudi Arabia. They suppress women’s rights, don’t allow education and condemn science.

[@wearenumberone1111]

@@vkrgfan yeah sharia just sucks it is against science

[@deadlygamer6689]

@@vkrgfan Idk about the other countries but living in Pakistan myself. I can easily say that Quran is not interpreted literally by most of the educated community in the cities. Yes there is still alot of intolerance (mostly among the uneducated class) but education is a major reason why Pakistan is starting to become a bit stable. I personally want to say that Islam is not a backward religion or anything but to me its the best religion and I admit I don't know much about Other religions but Muslims are not in their current state due to Islam but rather due to people using religion for personal gain. There are some politicians who would says this goes against Islam to get support and pass a law even when its not agaisnt it and they manuever the meaning of Quran to their will. But I hope soon things change.

[@MrTryAnotherOne]

In one hour I learned more about the history of the middle east than in two years in school.

[@toni4729]

The history of the far east is just as interesting. They knew a lot five or six thousand years ago as well but no-one thinks about that.

[@DarkenedSpell]

Wait. You watched a (very good) documentary video on KZbin. But please don't compare this learning stuff in school.

[@hadi8699]

@@DarkenedSpell school in the Western world like Britian only teach you the age of discovery and ww2 and Elizabeth really Just european These Historical KZbinrs are where I get my political, religious and historical view

[@DarkenedSpell]

I am French Canadian, I understand you mostly just scratch the surface on most matters until superior education but my point is really that more and more people tend to say they re "self-taught"or they "made their own research(watching youtube)". Internet is an awesome tool but you can find everything and it's opposite on here so let's take it with a grain of salt. Then there are also people who go out spreading lies, half-truths or their own misunderstanding of what they "learned" or even worse arguing against people who actually are specialists in their fields.

[@alextorres2311]

@@ruralcoder Learning history doesn't necessarily mean learning about the way of life. Here in the US, you learn to read. It is most important, everything else becomes a matter of conviction. I am a first gen immigrant who also believed that the US had a crumbling education system, but later I learned the true power of american education. It's easy to miss if you can't read.

[@buffwarriors]

The background music is called Sarı Gelin in Turkish and it is about a love story between a muslim man and a christian girl.

[@aymanmahey4888]

What can I search to find it?

[@newworldorder6764]

I think sari gelin is azeri song

[@buffwarriors]

@@newworldorder6764 Yes but it is old you know and when I say Turk I didn't mean geographically and Azeris are Turks too.

[@Akinwalesegun]

@@newworldorder6764 and iranian, and armeninan and kurdis as well

[@HannarrMontannarr]

Of course it is, because in islam a christian man isn't allowed to marry a muslim girl, because intolerance.

[@furn2313]

This has to be the most carefully produced video I've ever watched on anything....makes me feel like I'm on KZbin premium.

[@jhonshephard921]

that thing is overpriced. The only time it was worth it was when they had Cobra Kai. And normal KZbin is well produced too, look at SNL level comedy from Smosh or lectures from people like John/Hank Green or Extra History.

[@ardypangihutan3653]

would be perfect if it had text concerning the names and places. Took me few minutes to finally google Al-Farabi, Mu'thazila, Al-Nizamiyya, Al Ash'ari, Ibn Hanbali, Al-Ghazali, etc

[@DragnGo]

Did you also look up Ibn Taimiya? He is the Sheikh/Imam for the puritanical stream of Sunni Islam. He built the creed (aqidah) that the Hanbali schools follow. Edit: You should also check out the Brethren of Purity, a secret pro-enlightenment society that advocated a weird spiritual theory of evolution. Also, Abu Alaa Al-Maari.

[@mudejartrainingnaturalscie6938]

thanks

[@mudejartrainingnaturalscie6938]

@@DragnGo yes and thanks

[@Lancasterlaw1175]

Thanks you saved me some time as well

[@RoScFan]

Dude.... THANK YOU!

[@KARAMANDUKO]

Hi, i am from Peru and II love your videos, this one specially was amazing. In this part of the world most of the history teached is european history, and is a bit difficult to find a kind of documentary about the islamic world like this last video. thnx continue like that

[@abdulbasitmansoor8095]

Shivran ...Thanks for replying over what has baffled my mind for years...please continue with this

[@otherpatrickgill]

this is one of the most comprehensive and best formulated studies I have encountered. You should be awarded for your efforts

[@christophalcmeonides8537]

How Manu studies have you red/seen on the subject ? 😃

[@midnimomedia198]

This is formulated history built with philosophy, literature and spaculated facts linked with real commonly known history. We know the real history and will keep passing it until allah wishes انشاء الله

[@christinapetersen6374]

Shirvan's back! ❤

[@madsbrandt598]

Wohoo

[@drprasannasuru]

Christina Petersen ...you are beautiful

[@mehrdad5767]

Christina Petersen shit

[@coldtruth6354]

I like smart women. No offense lol. Just randomly felt like saying that.

[@tezwharton6599]

Hope you know Islamic is founded on Lies!!

[@milosdjokovic9619]

Outstanding presentation. True indulgence for curios mind. Many thanks!

[@jeffersonneves5046]

Great video, I'm so thankful for this knowledge, keep doing this amazing work, wish u the best from Brazil 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷

[@artysanmobile]

Shirvan, I bow to the breadth of your research and superb presentation. I’m mostly on KZbin for technology, but your work stands in its own class and has expanded my knowledge immensely. I thank you so much for that. Wishing you the best always.

[@nathangale7702]

You give a refreshingly nuanced picture of the historic relationship between different Islamic communities and the sciences. Thanks for your hard work.

[@MAamir-co3xm]

thank you brother. you have done tremendous work , i as a Muslim didnt know these things, now i know the reasons why Muslims left behind from science . its lack of rationality. i wish rationality starts teaching in our schools and other social places.

[@akapilka]

Rationality is the enemy of religion. This is particularly true for inflexible and absolutist religions like islam, and less prejudicial towards philosophical religions like buddhism. It's no wonder your teachers and societal leaders don't want to teach you rationality, critical thinking and logic. That's all that is needed to wipe islam out of the universe.

[@hashimelti7355]

Thank you for bringing out this wonderful report which is very needed at this point in time. As lessons from history are not easily obtained from the conventional sources of modern educational system for the common man .... Keep the good work up .

[@Tribecasoothsayer]

I knew some of this in bits and pieces, yet your exposition is extremely illuminating and told in a very good way. I thank you for this presentation and your research.

[@siuala]

One of the best historical documentary I've watched so far. Thank you!

[@riseofprime8758]

a non biased channel? wow what a amazing find lmao

[@owiz22]

An enlightening narrative of an extremely complex subject, broken down and analyzed in a simple, coherent and objective manner. Scholarship at its finest. More grace as you continue to do God's work.

[@HundreadD]

Absolutely the most profound thing you said in this video is how Muslims idolize the past without being aware of what precisely made them great in the first place. It's like seeing the effect without being aware of the cause; or participating blindly in a rite without knowing the meaning of it

[@perniciousseizurehellio3438]

Stop bombing our countries and maybe we progress

[@anonymousanonymous4690]

@@perniciousseizurehellio3438 hahaha excuses

[@perniciousseizurehellio3438]

@@anonymousanonymous4690 That's like destroying someone's house and then complaining they dont have a house. Your retardation is shining through

[@ASLUHLUHC3]

Yup

[@aktube9084]

​@@perniciousseizurehellio3438there r many muslim countries that aren't being bombed constantly that still live in the dark ages

[@richmiddleton3282]

It’s so sad that such great effort in this video which deserves credit, is shrouded by people that can’t get their heads out their asses because “muh...this video is invalid, because Islamic scientific work was built and worked on previous scientific works” Smdh

[@g-rexsaurus794]

It wasn't simply built on, it was built by the minorities living in the Middle East at the time and still is being greatly overplayed.

[@nikolademitri731]

That’s how all science is done. I can’t recall for sure who it was, I believe it was originally Newton, who said that he was, “standing on the shoulders of giants”, when he made his discoveries/did his work. Many scientists have repeated this since, and rightfully so, *because that is how it is done!* We should be grateful that the works of the Greeks, great works of mathematics and philosophy, were valued by these scholars, and saved from the purging of the extremist medieval Christians! Personally, I have always seen the religion of those who have made great scientific/mathematic/philosophical achievements to be secondary, not as relevant as the cultures from which they came. Granted, the religion of a culture is often the glue (or at least one of the most important factors) that held it together, so I do understand the importance laid on those religions, but to say, “Islamic science”, “Christian science”, etc., is very problematic, and in various ways. It would be much more useful and reasonable to look at the science and philosophy as, “Greek”, “Arabic”, Turkish”, German”, “Chinese”, etc, etc, etc, if we are insistent on qualifying these things per the groups that the scientists/philosophers belong(ed) to.

[@TheKestevon]

Truth be told people don't learn or invent something out of nothing. Some white supremacists actually want us to believe that intellectual achievements of Greek civilisation owed nothing to ancient Egyptian civilisation.

[@kefsound]

Rich Middleton remove that comma

[@rajababy2009]

actually those people are bigot and hatred toward Islam ... Every one knows that new generation learn from previous generation and tried to make it bitter .. This is how science works.... Who invented the wheel ? no body knows but he does a tremendous job although the wheel might be a rough wooden made and now the whole world is using this tool in most advance way . .... So Greeks took it from their ancestors , Romans take it from other , Indians also take from previous generations So Muslims also did the same take the previous generation works and progress it towards bitter ..... Now what Europe and western countries did they take it from Muslims , Greeks , Romans , Indians etc and translate and Understand their work and make more advancement and inventions .. and after 100s of years our forthcoming generations will studies our generation work and will invent again So science is common Study of humanity ... No one can claim owner ship of Science .. Every human whether he is Muslim . Hindu , Christian , atheist or black white , able or disable can contribute to science.... period

[@anonymousanonymous7250]

We miss you Shirvan.

[@ignacioconde2219]

anonymous anonymous what happened to him?

[@Ivorytrigger]

where did you get that from?

[@ignacioconde2219]

OrangeDude its bullshit

[@roxasfrevr]

ISO He hired someone to be the voice of the channel. Apparently he wanted to focus on writting more.

[@Shiraz354]

I do not understand that why you are missing shirvan and would you clarify in more detail.

[@gamingshaming950]

I hate when people say islam didn't contribute anything in science or world they have no about how great Muslims used to be how much they contributed in maths and science and physics

[@hesliterallymebro]

Lol no one is saying that

[@gamingshaming950]

@@hesliterallymebro i have seen some people saying it

[@afbf6522]

Islam contributed nothing. Science did. Religion keeps science from flourishing so stop saying that islam is scientific and shit

[@omerberketurhan]

I can't believe that we can find this kind of premium content for free. Amazing. Keep up the good work, Shirvan!

[@dawoodwilliams3652]

True scholars still does exist. Wonderful video, I'm always happy to see fellow scholars put thought and research in their work.

[@hobog]

I was wrong to say that Islam is missing its equivalent to the protestant reformation or hussite uprising

[@YamacKocovali7]

Tbh there are many factors which are essentially repressing the Islamic world from flourishing again, and i know that the extremists, hypocrites and the anti-Islamic bigots want this to be so.

[@baheer156]

​@@YamacKocovali7 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gXXViYh_iM6CZpo -> this video provides a good description

[@baheer156]

1. Unity forget the borders and tribalism 2. Return back to the Quran There is no need for bloodshed or the reformation, change of the Religion needed.

[@ADeeSHUPA]

@@YamacKocovali7 ゲンじ 시마だ

[@kevincastillomorales4858]

@Raizen Cruer what

[@thecuddlyaddict]

Definitive, comprehensive and entertaining. This is one of the most well made documentaries out there. The amount of research and knowledge condensed into one hour astounds me. This is a PhD thesis in video form.

[@FirstLast-vr7es]

I am in awe at the amount of research that you had to have done to make this. Outstanding work.

[@tupaicindjeke275]

Shirvan was busy making a 1 hour video... Welcome back.

[@tomathoe7960]

Simon Shaninga Unfortunately, this is just a compilation the same clips spread out over a few videos earlier.

[@abhishekparmar6702]

Calling Damascus steel as Tamil steel and naming Gujarat for sandalwood (although more consequently for spices) shows how much in depth they researched. Spices might be purchased from Alexandria and swords from Damascus but their journey began in different places in Indian subcontinent. Nice. 10/10 on research.

[@lordtalosgaming1448]

Did Gujarat have Sandalwood trees in medieval times. Genuine question because as far as I know, Malenāḍu (part of the Western Ghats that lie in Karnataka) is the Sandalwood hub of India.

[@catanana]

@@lordtalosgaming1448 u r right but the coastal region aka Saurashtra peninsula had sandalwood in medieval times

[@RCSVirginia]

Kudos! This is a great overview of the historical, theological, political and philosophical aspects of the Abbasid Caliphate and how they developed over time. Furthermore, it shows how outside events influenced the Caliphate and what was happening inside it, as well. Quite well done!

[@sir_humpy]

Just the fact that you used music in the background will raise quite a few eyebrows among the more righteous brothers.

[@ahundt]

This material is great! Thank you! One request: Can you include some more text titles, anchors, and headings in the video, and labels on the maps? Sometimes it is difficult to keep track of the exact locations and time periods you are describing at any given moment. For example, having a timeline appear on the screen occasionally would be fantastic!

[@felipedigre]

Amazing video, I'm from latin america and I had very little history of the middle east in my school. It was so refreshing to learn so much about this fascinating culture

[@gigitygigtyg00]

You've outdone yourself in quality. Amazing work man, I love your videos.

[@slavzahariev3901]

Amazing content. Learned so much for Islamic and Middle East history. Thank you. When comparing Muslim science back then and the Taliban now.... World would have been much better place if this knowledge was preserved and develop further.

[@sh14ak34]

The Taliban will restore the glories of education. I hope for skills. What are they doing now.

[@jitedurmu5564]

America created the Taliban and Al Qaeda to oppose the Soviet Union. Research and you will learn

[@YusufAhmed22]

The Taliban are now organizing their priorities. Their priorities are to establish the Islamic identity among young people and eliminate poverty. After that, they will focus on the army and urban projects, then science, and Kabul will return to how it was during the Abbasid era, insha'Allah

[@varuntnindia]

WOW!!! You have taught me a lot more than anyone else can ever do in my lifetime on this topic! Thank You!! Keep up the good work!

[@craiga7652]

You guys have done many wonderful mini documentaries but this one takes the term "masterful" to a whole new level!👍⭐ This should be a standard part of the history curriculum in as many schools in every country on the planet as possible. It's given me a whole new perspective on the history of Islam. Brilliant!

[@bighmay12]

I am in awe of this magnificent piece of work you have accumulated in this video. Truly inspiring. Keep up the good work, you have earned yourself a new fan!

[@Mahmood42978]

I think one problem is calling things "Islamic Science"; that somehow it is a unique property of being the scientists being Muslim or Islamic doctrine. Islam, like many other faiths may have, in certain contexts been an inspiration or even a "guide" to scientists with a Muslim background, but the idea that their science was an extension of "Islam" is incorrect and problematic. It immediately carries the implication, that scientific work done by non-Muslims is "UN"-Islamic science and that it should be avoided or in the very least be dismissed as "inferior" or misguided in someway. In fact many of the 19th and early 20th century Islamic Revivalism (not all) upheld this view and discouraged followers from pursuing secular sciences.

[@SS-cs6wt]

There is a indisputable fact that people need to appreciate. The Renaissance in Europe was the decoupling of religion from society. In the Islamic heyday, the religious peak also coincided with the scientific peak. So this “universal” belief that religion and science cannot and have never coexisted is simply a Eurocentric way of looking at the world. Today the Islamic world is in a dark age, no doubt about it. But there are a lot of reasons for that, both internal and externally caused. Happens to all civilizations when they rise and fall.

[@SS-cs6wt]

@@deviceaccount5277 Did most of the greatest scientific thinkers of that time and most of the greatest Islamic thinkers that muslims still cite today come from the same period, yes. As a matter of fact, some of the greatest Jewish scholars also came from that period as well. That’s undeniable. So his last sentence doesn’t mean anything. People were not burned at the stake for heretical beliefs. It wasn’t perfect, no system is. But it did have beautiful elements to it. It was multicultural. It was religiously tolerant. Sure there were exception, but they were exceptions.

[@foundational]

Man! This is gold! I've been looking for such explanation for long time! U should add your bitcoin address in video description, I want to thank you for your work and I'm sure some other people would also like to endorse this brilliant effort.

[@heyheyhey7757]

One of the most important documentries for any civilization to understand...ever...

[@paumarinescudero1426]

Outstanding research and production, I can't find this level of content anywhere else. Thank you very much for your objective and well narrated lessons!

[@deznuces9342]

This deserves translation on every language!! Amazing, amazing work.

[@mariovallanzasca9454]

This video deserves at least 1 million views. So much effort and so good.

[@zohebalikhan7404]

Love these documentaries. Keep em coming.

[@Mr.Mystery]

This is great, it would be really helpful to have a small timeline in the corner somewhere that indicates what year we are discussing throughout your narration. That way you don't have to interrupt the discussion to mention years.

[@Shiraz354]

Thanks for uploading and the print is excellent and well documented.

[@wadaninwm5334]

You really achieved what only few could try to attemp

[@GaryFerrao]

OMG. i feel this is so insightful. And well explained, with an attitude that's not patronising nor antagonistic, but with an eager attitude to tell stories so that we can learn from the past. And the animations, videos, music are top quality. Looks like more than 6 months work to research, organise, create all this. if i had a hat, it would be off for you.

[@carlossaavedra8956]

One of the best informational channels out there. This guy really puts in the work. You have a faithful viewer here, always.

[@MrWilliamWolf]

This video and your other history videos have been immensely educational for me. For an American man like myself, I would like to see you incorporate some text on screen when you describe the pivotal figures to help me visualize their names.

[@raheelhaider9295]

What about the scientists like Jabar bin Hayan (Father of Chemistry) He was a student of Imam Jafar Sadiq (6th Shiite Imam) alongwith him many other scientists were direct or indirect students of Shiite Imams who spread scientific knowledge in Medina / Baghad / Khurasan / Nishapur and from their things started flourishing

[@hassanabdikarimmohamed2505]

Sp even in knowledge and learning Shias still have the stupid hierarchical inheritance malarkey ..6th imam 😂😂

[@raheelhaider9295]

Hassan Abdikarim Mohamed Thats how Allah made it nearly all Prophets are sent like that Sunni imams recognise the knowledge of shiite imams and all 4 sunni imams are directly or indirectly students of 6th Shiite imam

[@stevengiji3886]

First stop fighting inside the religion itself . Then we can think of religion of peace between other religions.

[@hassanabdikarimmohamed2505]

@@raheelhaider9295 shut the hell up you muunaafiq not a single sunni scholsr recognises your fake imams You will pay dearly for your wretched degenerate manipulation of Islam

[@novascotia200]

He is not discussing shia and Sunni, he discussing knowledge ,

[@lynsmith3154]

Excellent monologue. Subtitles would have been good for people like me who are not familiar with Arabic names. Once I came to think about a quote by Bertrand Russell that fear was the basis of all religion, I was not afraid to become atheist and had a heavy mental burden of confusion lifted from me after years of trying to understand theology and religion. Fifty five years later I feel even more grateful that I read that remark. All religions contain fundamental truths, but knowing right from wrong is a rational process. High morality doesn't require a belief in the supernatural, its more a process of rational reasoning and education. Fear of the unknown is a fundamental human reaction. All cultures have their holy writings and origin of The Bible and The Koran need to be seen in the context of other cultural holy writings. The book The story of God by Karen Armstrong gives a good history of religious belief in God. I am happy to regard my self as a Christian atheist, as I appreciate all the good things in Christianity, and no doubt there are many in other religions. But a science degree answered a lot more questions than did religion.

[@nerdlingeeksly5192]

I wouldn't quite say religion is the downfall of science in history but rather Stubborn ignorance, Tradition, And intolerance.

[@vanhovemare]

Something you can be very, very proud of! I teach history, or rather I will, I will never again call 'the dark ages' dark ages anymore, since it was far from dark in Baghdad and beyond.

[@vanhovemare]

anyway, this is really, really well done of you!

[@davrosdarlek7058]

I agree, the life of farmers in Europe improved massivly as they no longer needed to support the impossible Roman urbanisation which technology at the time wasn't efficient enougth to do effectivly which meant the cities relied on the sheer mass of farms to support themselves. They now had surpluses of food and could have a larger exchange econony than they did in Roman times.

[@tlanimass952]

@@davrosdarlek7058 Except that Europe experiences huge population decline, even in country side caused by famines and plagues. The productivity of farmers/peasants declined as well as the urban centers collapsed.

[@lanceroparaca1413]

@@tlanimass952 the plagues came through the Silk Road from China.

[@mclay3754]

The world is in a repetitious loop- things never change at the core- just the tastes and languages. Great presentation. Thank you.

[@LiamDennehy]

This is excellent, well done!

[@faisalrkhawaja]

Thank you very much for this account. Very balanced and dispassionate. Hopefully it stimulates more respectful discussion.

[@VictorRadulescu]

Your video is what keeps from time to time my faith in humanity. Great work.

[@MAamir-co3xm]

thank you brother. you have done tremendous work , i as a Muslim didnt know these things, now i know the reasons why Muslims left behind from science . its rationality. i wish rationality starts teaching in our schools and other social places.

[@Hayanomie]

It's a succession of well meaning devout worshippers fearing innovation, power hungry leaders wishing to use Islam as a tool of subjugation, and learned scholars intending to pave a middle path for Muslims to flourish in society.

[@MAamir-co3xm]

@@Hayanomie yes true.

[@AlonzoRodrigoEzcurraSilva]

I've been following your channel for years and just now discovered this episode. This is truly intersting and congrats for the great work!

[@inferno0020]

Originally I thought it was another video about nostalgia of Islamic golden age but it has really provided a clear outlook of political history that allowed science to rise in the Medieval Near East. Thank you Shivan, as always.

[@apaxx3950]

The music on background, Sarı Gelin... I remember when my father used to play that song to me on Saz. It's a very heartbreaking song. Love from Turkey Shirvan...

[@josron6088]

This has got to be one of the best presentations I've seen in a long time it explains what I innately thought on how the Islamic World lost ground

[@rc3018]

I'm in awe. This is an informative easily-accessible masterpiece. Thank you!

[@joenathan6458]

Thank you for this great piece of work. It’s pieces like this that makes it incredibly obvious to naysayers how useful the internet is for learning.