RISHKAR'S EXPERTISE + Vial Smasher & Thrasios Deck Tech | The Command Zone 140 | Magic Podcast

[@Rediblackdragon]

Podcast starts at 14:45

[@dripz-zx6im]

Super interesting to hear that people didn’t think partners were over powered when they came out. I’m a relatively new EDH player. It’s funny how much perception has changed since.

[@therealnetherknight]

I'm currently running Tymna the Weaver and Vial Smasher together. You can look at the deck as a White/Black Vial Smasher deck. Tymna works great for early card advantage and having red as back up means I can play great cards like Bonfire of the Damned and Debt to the Deathless which get even better with Vial Smasher out. I've found that Vial Smasher works really well to compliment what the deck does already so having access to her throughout the game is great. So I'm quite happy that both my commanders are a important part of the deck.

[@bytorgaming3796]

I realize this is a comment on an old video, however, my first partner interaction I used was Sidar Kondo of Jumaara with Tana the Bloodsower. I found that they were both integral parts of the deck because Sidar lets Tana hit unblockable and make tokens that are also unblockable. With the recent addition of Samut, the Tested to the deck, my ability to give Tana Double Strike has boosted the deck so hard. To this day it is still one of my favourite partner combinations. Also who doesn't like Naya??? Love the show guys. Keep up the great work.

[@TheTonycakes]

Thanks JOSH for all your awesome editing!!! and thanks to both you guys for the awesome content!

[@kenjohnson3683]

ishai and teyhan have been a startlingly efficient combo. They outpace my friends atraxa superfriends deck really well and i often run out of dice. you are totally right that it feels like you have an extra card on everyone

[@e-tier_hippo]

I built my take on Josh's Kydele and Bruse deck. Bruse was great with lifegain and threatening to make the Eldrazi absolute monsters. The partner deck I built from scratch was Vial Smasher and Ludevic. Some groups don't attack the random effects; mine is not one of the groups. Ludevic helps the deck by providing incentive to go elsewhere and the 4 toughness lets it block all the 3 power critters in games. This deck started as a Vial Smasher deck that has a "spells matter" theme. The best of the "whenever an instant or sorcery" cards are in U/R. Ludevic gave me the blue access the deck wanted. Adding Ludevic also let me add some fun "mad science" cards and let me drift the theme a bit. With two mad scientists, I can swap more cards to change the deck as my LGS shifts in trends.

[@mttmck4985]

That deck looks so fun! I want to build one like this now!!! Thanks guys:)

[@joshleekwai8895]

It is quickly becoming m favorite deck to play!

[@TheUCuber]

Hi Josh! I deceided to replace the blue Gearhulk for a Kheru Spellsnatcher as this is a budget option and enables you the spell you "snatch" to be the 1st spell of the turn. What do you think of this card? Is it wonky/gimmicky? Or would you think it could be a good card / overperformer in this deck?

[@derekmullen3503]

a friend of mine drafted void winnower (obviously cause it was the last card) card in standard and he had to leave and i played it in one game and essentially beat the guy in 2 turns cause he just could not do anything and i just kept swinging for 11...been raving about how underrated this card is glad you guys mentioned it!

[@Kestral287]

Void Winnower is outstanding in EDH. I've run it in a lot of decks; in Selvala it's big enough to draw cards and gets you ahead on mana easily. In Animar it's castable for free and prevents you from getting board wiped. In Meren it tops out a Pod curve (gotta be ready to sac the Woodfall Primus) and helps end a game while being impossible to actually deal with without grave hate. I've seen it in Ojutai to shut the door too. The card is crazy undervalued, and even though it didn't stay in all of those (it was cut from Meren for Emrakul), it's always been great for me.

[@DJMigrane]

I loved your Kyedele deck. I did go with Akiri because of ll the artifacts in it makes it a strong creature with a few rocks . I tend to do creature damage more so I used all that mana to cast secure the Wastes or Decree if Jusice. I alwo run Temur and Jeskai Ascendency for haste and pump.

[@ethanwiggen3567]

reyhan and ravos,they work really well in tandem, especially when they are both on the battlefield.Being able to reanimate one of the commander's (to your hand sadly) and recast it for its original cost is great.And you actually want reyhan to die because she passes her +1/+1 counters to your other creatures.So the deck is really fun,and Wedge from Themanasource did a 50$ budget and that was my starting point,so the deck isn't very expensive, especially if you bought the atraxa deck because a lot of those cards are in this one.For anyone that builds it,have fun.To you Josh and Jimmy,loved this deck tech,and really enjoyed the Game Knights video,keep up the great work.

[@700NitroXpress]

In EDH my favorite card draw spell for green is Momentous Fall. I usually cast it sacrificing Malignus because Malignus gets targeted with removal a lot, so might as well gain 20 life and draw 20 cards at instant speed.

[@zack161224]

+The Command Zone I play Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker and Vial Smasher the Fierce control. i used them both a lot but i normally stick to one depending on what is going on. i like Vial Smasher early game while i get set up and late game as the finesse. Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker is the face of the deck he is my wincon and a back up plane in one i was hoping you guys would look at them but i don't thank you will now.....

[@ninjafished]

okay guys you asked for partner experience, so here's mine: i chose Ludevic and Kraum. i had recently torn down a Niv Mizzet curiousity combo deck and wanted a more creature based izzet colored artifact deck. when they spoiled the new commanders I saw Ludevic and Kraum and instantly fell in love. the internet regarded both of them as "meh" particularly Ludevic. Ludevic is MUCH MORE than he seems. Players almost never want to attack you. Players also want that extra card per turn, pushing them to beat up on each other. This really adds up over the game to give you an advantage. Ludevic also generates ZERO hate. No one has yet hit him with targeted removal. This is the complete opposite of Niv Mizzet, who gets blasted off the face of the world whenever he showed up. (terrified of combos go figure) Now i know someone out there is saying "hey now wait a sec, givng opponents cards is bad" to which i say this: they get ONE card per turn, at the END of the turn, for beating on your enemies. Thats a win win in my book. The last point I'd like to make is that Ludevic has FOUR toughness. This seems to be relevant again and again. I chose pongify, rapid hybridization, anger of the gods, and slagstorm and Ludevic brushes them all off while most of the other partners die. Next up is Kraum! He is Ludevics board wipe recovery team. He gets to work punching players and planeswalkers in the face right now. The ability to pull him out whenever needed is such a HUGE blessing. He can be defence or offense. His presence alone may cause the guy with BRUSELLA to swing elsewhere or he might be the perfect solution to breaking through a very solid ground defense. What else does he do? How about DRAW YOU TONS OF CARDS! Now i know what some people are gonna say here. "Dude I would NEVER drop two cards and let you draw!!" or " There is no guarentee that any players will play two spells on any given turn" Its all about timing here folks. You wait. You wait til that cyclonic rift or that wrath, blasphemous, whatever then BOOOM. You're back on your feet with kraum while every other player scrambles to get bodies on the board while you draw draw draw each turn. It is beautiful. It is delicious. He is the perfect plan B. He functions completely alone, no flimsy support cards necessary. He has no weakness. He is the burger, fries, AND milkshake. Try him. You will love it. Just remember TIMING young padawans. now in closing I could talk about the deck but I dont need to. The sky is the limit here. Do whatever with these two. They are not limited to one particular strategy as many of the other partners are. This is their true beauty. If anyone reads this, and the lightbulb clicks on: you are welcome. ;-)

[@EpicCenterGaming]

Depending on what the blue and red expertise's do, that chain of casting expertise into expertise could be REALLY powerful in a Yidris Storm build. Since they cast the cards for free from your hand, Yidris gives them cascade as well, so you could even cascade into an expertise to cascade again. Might be something I try out for my build :o

[@gulzkrypty4857]

You can use Foil instead of Misdirection , it has higher cost because it needs an island but is a hard counter

[@Eric-lr3zj]

Look forward to seeing you guys again at GP San Jose!

[@dshumway0724]

Consider adding Dark petition. Costs 5 (bigger vial smasher hit), but can give BBB back with spell mastery. Getting training grounds out early can quickly make up, so maybe cut a mana dork?

[@dshumway0724]

I have a Thrasios/K Simic deck. Both have activated abilities (ways to double them) and are wizards, lending themselves to some fun wizard tools and synergies. CMC 2 and 4 allows flexibility of when to cast Thrasios, whose activated ability can be used immediately. I've ended up switching some wheels out for X draw spells, as they reduce benefit of draw to other players. Several cards become infinite mana quickly with K, and of course extra mana from K be used to activate Thrasios over and over or force an opponent to draw out their library (Atraxa, eat your heart out!). Once Thrasios gets a ton of lands out, it is tough for people to compete. The build was rare enough, that many people at my LGS didn't see it coming.

[@jaykaydee9434]

Kaervek is a major player in my Karona deck! the first time he came out in our playgroup people got kind of mad. He's now turned over a new leaf (as a political tool) where I let whoever cast the spell direct the damage as long as its not at me, it makes for some hilarious games.

[@bryanbonar]

Mizzix could also help you get more damage for less Mana.

[@grimmbrother01]

I kind of like this idea because it uses Mizzix's ability without making it super broken like it is as a general.

[@MajicMiranda]

I haven't actually played this deck, but I've built a deck for Bruse Tarl and Tana. The idea is somewhat of a hybrid between voltron and tokens.

[@steffenbrand1788]

Actually you can vote Money on Expropriate and target a permanent you own but an opponent stole to get it back. If this is your vote, you still get what the stealer votes. Nice episode guys! =)

[@giz6385]

The green gearhulk costs 3GG so that is a thing, also if you cast the gearhulk into this, draw 8, then you can play a secong one for free and its pretty great.

[@ClockworkThistle]

Sadly split cards don't actually work that way. You can only cast a split card if the sum of the CMCs is 5 or less.

[@BrunoCasagrandaNeves]

ClockworkThistle I was searching comments to see if anyone had this updated info posted. Nice, this video was published under previous ruling.

[@ChillyJack]

White Expertise and Legendary have also been revealed, it's definitely a cycle which is awesome.

[@ChillyJack]

Rishkar's Expertise might be the best one so far, because it fills your hand with cards it can then cast one of for free.

[@YungBoiWetDream]

Sram's expertise {2}{w}{w} - create 3 1/1 servos, cast a spell 3 cmc or less.... With paradox engine + cryptolith rites, I feel like there's something busted there in standard. Two untap triggers, you net a ton of mana. In commander paradox engine + mana dorks/Cryptolith rites is busted if you have some protection.

[@Festentorsdag]

How about Metalligic Summons for your Vial + Thrasios combo? It seems like you have enough spells to support it? I'm looking to to pair Sidar with Tymna as a hatebears/taxes deck.

[@bigmike15511]

I know this video was posted a while back ago but I like rewatching your guys videos because the format changes over the years. 19 ramp spells and 4 card draw seemed outrageous to me but Do you think it is the opposite case with the new Saheeli in the fact that you don't need that many ramps spells since she technically ramps and cheats in spells? Right now I have 12 card draw spells and 9 ramp spells in my deck with 38 lands as always. I think I could still take a few more ramp out and add more draw but in the case of saheeli she's a planeswalker that will get attacked and removed while thrasios you have to have a removal spell. Thoughts?

[@Kestral287]

Did some testing with Rishkar's Expertise in Selvala and the card is the nuts. On turn six I drew ten cards and then put in Garruk, Primal Hunter for free... which drew me ten more cards. Six mana to go +18 cards in hand? Seems playable to me. I'd played with Soul's Majesty (4G, draw cards equal to the greatest power among creatures you control) before this, and the bit that always sucked was when you have an Ulamog or whatever on the table and cast Majesty, then the opponent Paths your Ulamog so you draw two or even nothing. Here you hedge against that beautifully. If you get Pathed, even if you just draw nothing, you still get to at least use your mana efficiently. That's huge and I love it and that alone would be worth one more mana.

[@joshleekwai8895]

Oh this is a really good point about not getting blown out by instant speed removal. Well said!

[@BlazePascal22]

I played vial smasher and Ludevic as partners the deck performance was average and the deck was a ton of fun to make , I'd love to see what you guys could do with these commanders

[@craigcarroll2000]

I have a redless counter deck that is a mash up of a Ghave deck and a Zegana deck using Reyhan and Ishai as partner commanders. To always have access to the Death's Presence ability in the deck is crazy powerful. And the efficiency of Ishai as an evasive commander allows me to always threaten commander damage even without having a single card dedicated to voltron. I usually ramp and then play Ishai followed by Reyhan on the next turn. When Ishai gets big enough that people want to remove her, I move her counters to Reyhan and I'm still threatening commander damage, because I've usually found a Crowned Ceratok, Bramblewood Paragon, or Tuskguard Captain by then. Full decklist: tappedout.net/mtg-decks/redless-counters/

[@shanonkallhoff2431]

Great show guys!

[@dizzycriminal]

I'm building a very similar deck to this, but with Kydele and Vial Smasher. It has a lot of the large spells and ways of pulling off freebies, but then I am using the abilities of things like Sangromancer and Liliana's Caress and an unreasonable amount of hand cycling. So when I run out of lands with Burgeoning and big splashy spells, I can Wheels of Fate, or Reforge the Soul, or Magus of the Wheel and fill my hand up again. Then that card draw feeds Kydele and I can carry on placing land with Burgeoning and firing of Spells. It also makes things like Consuming Aberration and Nighthowler super scary.

[@mbalazs3544]

27:36 thought a spell that would be fun in this deck Final punishment Also according to rules Hit-Run hit is a huge head shoot

[@ramirogomezgonzalez]

i previusly had a izzet chaos deck, with Niv mizzet as the Commander... i remove NivMizzet, and all the cards that do synergy with him, add black chaos, and use as commanders Kraum, Ludevic's Opus and Vial Smasher... the deck is really slow so i LOVE to have something to play on turn 3 and 5, Kraum its ideal to pick walkers and draw cards, and vial smasher's habillity adds to the chaos experience =D

[@ramirogomezgonzalez]

Give me a minute

[@ramirogomezgonzalez]

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/03-01-17-grixis-chaos/ there, thanks for given me an excuse to do the list

[@sirderik]

okey i am going to just watch the preview because i plan to listen to this while i am on my work. oh i like it....

[@jacobdachauer4377]

So, you could do something like Rishkar's expertise into goblin dark dwellers into a mana ramp spell like cultivate. Everything you want!!! Card draw, mana ramp, and a creature, all for 6 mana??

[@treasureberry7154]

Jacob Dachauer goblin dark dwellers cost six :(

[@jacobdachauer4377]

It costs 5 (3RR). Could be a perfect target if you have already played one ramp spell earlier and want to flash it back, or a removal spell later game like Krosan grip, or anguished unmaking!!

[@kuroshinko427]

Vial Smasher is seeing an extreme lot of play in duel commander. My local duel commander meta is dominated by Partner Control.

[@-KillaWatt-]

R. C. Beringuela it explains the high cost of the card. Its the second (maybe third, Braya) highest priced commander from the set. Behind Atraxa. Its currently sitting at $12 cnd. Well worth it though. He's really good.

[@Vininn126]

I think the new ludevic is pretty good here.

[@jeremiahbachmann3901]

Are there any outside walls where you film these videos? The way the lighting appears, it seems as though the outside of this building is wall to wall windows. Very well illuminated with natural white light.

[@commandcast]

hahah I love this comment! We currently film in my apartment, and we have windows along two walls that receive sunlight all day which gives a lot of natural light inside. - jimmy

[@BloodMonkeez]

I like Tymna and Kydele but i find most games i rely on kydele more than the other depending on my hands. i have some cheap creatures, wheel effects and some big eldrazi. so if i get my low cost creatures i want both tymna and kydele so i can attack pay life and draw cards then cast them with kydele mana. but if i don't draw my cheap creatures and instead draw my wheel and draw effects then i don't need tymna.

[@marcobonannomovies4222]

Maybe add temporal trespass because it has delve as well

[@lokone303]

what i've learnt from partners and the last commander set? Cards made thinking on commander format are boring, because you lose one of the main reasons of the format, have fun with "useles" cards nobody expect and feel smart. For not to talk about the close to cheat way to have 4 colors on your deck just to always play the staples of each color(and ensuring a CMC

[@jacobwilliams7038]

Could you guys do a leovold one? Making the deck more competitive rather than broken. I have a an elf tribal leo that is not at its potential and could use some help, thank!

[@ketangopichand4269]

Jacob Williams he got banned

[@Max.Volume]

you can get Emrakul to cost 5 if you happen to have a Tribal card in your deck.

[@epee11c]

I wonder if the legendaries will be the cmcs you can cast with their cards.

[@mariabartoszko-kotarba7255]

Cormac Connolly they will, its mentioned in sram preview article: magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/sram-2016-01-02

[@turtleanton6539]

Maria Bartoszko cool

[@r.r.theninja6812]

Jimmy says he always wanted to find a place for training grounds. One of the best places is sliver overlord, makes his tutor and (less relevantly) his sliver mind control 1 mana, so so very good.

[@Pastlebox]

mmmm Dream Halls? Been thinking on this deck for a while now as Thrasios in Momir Vig (multiple Prophet of Kruphix "proxies") throws the game out of control. Though Momir Vig does seem very frail these days and I really love the damage output from Vial Smasher. Though, I would want to add Mizzux in. She might take a bit of time to grow, but if your deck has lots of instants and co. then her growth is only going to get funnier and funnier. Though making this deck and just throwing in every version of extra turn possible (like Beacon of Tomorrows) seems pretty degenerate. Damn... making this deck seems WAAAAAAAAY too fun. Would require dismantling 3 decks through :'(

[@Niedomysm]

So I know this comment is super late but a commander deck I have thought about, in which both partners would be the main strategy is using Vial smasher, and ishai and making a greenless control with things like kravalek the merciless. you use both commanders to help control the battlefield, you burn people with vial smasher and use ishai as a beat stick once your opponent's can't do anything to you.

[@knightfromlordran]

bruse and kydele. combat based card draw deck with cards like hunters prowess

[@jays2376]

Love the major ramp idea with Vial Smasher. I went kind of the opposite route - trying to make everything cheaper to cast huge spells....so I went Artifact theme

[@-KillaWatt-]

Jay Schnurr nice. I went even diffent from that. I paired him with Kydele and made a ridiculously good mill/discard deck. I never thought mill would be good but I built a broken mill deck that just annoys everyone.

[@jays2376]

Killa Watt Mill works in edh, but usually it has to be some kind of combo mill with graveyard hate Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void with Helm of Obedience

[@jeanmarais337]

If some opponant have been defeated, does Undaughnted still count them?

[@turtleanton6539]

Jean Marais no

[@SolivagantCraig]

Want to build Legacy Grixis deck with Smasher and FoWs. Just want to dome someone for 5 with a counterspell.

[@breaze3242]

Craig Nickerson oh my god!

[@jaygiemtg7511]

That sounds awesome

[@samb123078]

No panharmincon? Vail smashers ability is triggered ability after all.

[@gammie6062]

not an etb

[@samb123078]

Gammie it's a triggered ability, which panharmoicon doubles.

[@gammie6062]

Panharmonicon copies the triggered ability of an artifact or creature entering the battlefield. Vial smasher is on cast not ETB.

[@BrunoCasagrandaNeves]

Would work with well with Strionic Resonator + training grounds. Even better with paradox engine too, so much value!

[@viceverse11]

Yidris cascade triggers post combat.

[@LadyLunarSatine]

Giving him double strike or even first strike means you can cast before going to the normal combat damage step of assigning damage.

[@viceverse11]

Solemn Howler Blade of selves for additional cascades, lol

[@LadyLunarSatine]

viceverse11 As long as you throw in a Mirror Gallery.

[@breaze3242]

i have found the avatars and the emerge cards to be more than great in this deck.

[@darynu]

Kari Zev's Expertise + Zada Hedron Grinder + cantrips to fill your hand = instant win

[@loganfrazier1187]

Flashback spells with Vial Smash mouth?

[@malikchristie6511]

I built a Tymna and Kydele deck that plays like an Edric spymaster deck with the black unlockable creatures and death to the deathless and villainous wealth as win cons

[@giantsalt]

Just want to let you guys know.... Rishkar's Extpertise -> Verdurous Gearhulk

[@WilhelmScreamer]

I am vomitting

[@ZoidsNut]

@Giant Salt I love that combo, particularly because it works just fine in the other order too: Verdurous Gearhulk->Rishkar's Expertise. Sure, I'll draw 8 cards. Oh, look at that, I drew another Verdurous Gearhulk! Or maybe you drew Mechanized Production and you'll just start making Gearhulks every turn. XD

[@TheUCuber]

I don't get it? What's better about Gearhulk than any other good 5 cmc card?

[@giantsalt]

Verdurous Gearhulk is just a really good 5 cmc card, and it's notorious for having much greater power and toughness than its mana cost. 5 mana for an 8/8? Yes please. 6 mana for eight cards and another 8/8? Oh yeah.

[@TheUCuber]

Giant Salt yeah okay, it's pretty good. But the comments above made it seem like it was a gamebteaking combo

[@olivermisior5580]

does vial smasher kill someone if he shoots 21 damage randomly?

[@blazerker1640]

Oliver Misior Commander damage counts only combat damage dealt by the commander, so the trigger ability of Vile Smasher

[@darrenshoemaker7883]

You could always give Vial Smasher infect

[@bogmin3331]

Does anyone else think that the expertise are used for the legendary creatures? Getting them out? (I hope there all not that big of a disappointment *cough Gonti, Kimball, Padeem cough*)

[@jays2376]

I didn't think Padeem was that much of a disappointment...he's just very niche. Sram is going to be a great EDH card

[@AndJDrake]

DirtMan 334 woah woah woah slow down. Gonti is Great. Funnest EDH commander I've ever built hah

[@jays2376]

Razious1 Gonti is entertaining, but not super strong

[@bogmin3331]

Jay Schnurr ya padeem, I actually had hopes for padeem

[@bogmin3331]

Razious1 agreed but I mostly play standard so for him there I just don't now what to do with my foil one

[@multiranger6362]

You should do an infect episode with Craig

[@turtleanton6539]

Multi Ranger yes!

[@revolutionartiste]

Video starts around 15 min ?? Why

[@oriattackwillperkins.1355]

riskkars expertise into yaheenis experitise into idk liliana?

[@kingfoust18]

can you cast both halves of a fuse card using rishkar's expertise

[@ontheplaymtg3777]

"Rush me" :D

[@scarrboros]

I have a Thrasios Vial Smasher deck too, but mine is built around storm c:

[@andrewp979]

Saying rishkar's expertise can be better than ancestral is crazy. It's why demonic tutor is still better than dark petition. It's still a really cool card.

[@zirezerimar3725]

Breya + Training grounds = Value

[@ketangopichand4269]

Zire zerimar it makes it 1 mana to use her ability because of training grounds desc

[@enzomakesvidz7629]

How much does this deck cost

[@stevenkurinec4194]

can you guys add skip links in the comments so we don't have to scroll past the intro stuff?

[@chubby_deity3143]

i made this deck, but i went the suspend route...

[@jonnynice8366]

meh

[@damienwhite3921]

First?

[@megareptilerna]

yes gj!

[@megareptilerna]

nice going

[@megareptilerna]

well played

[@kylekrueger2571]

yeah super simple you just need 500 dollars to spend on cards

[@henaadi8129]

? are you new to magic or something. Its an expensive hobby lol.

[@user-po6kl5sz8r]

$500 is only around 1/3 of the deck now

[@FrostMonarch13]

put the professer on again, he has no job

[@tonydavila7536]

i like the show but your sell out patron ho out is crap some people cant give you any money but you will only answer questions from people who do. geez i understand the need to make money so i will not ask you guys anything ill just google it. Its a constant reminder why pay to play sucks. i do enjoy your show good luck with internet pan handling

[@joshleekwai8895]

I'm not sure what this is in response to. We definitely answer questions and interact with all of our listeners, patrons or not. And pan handling is asking for money without giving anything back. We've got a product (that costs us money to produce by the way) that we're providing and that everyone is welcome to consume free of charge. Without the patreon and sponsorship from Card Kingdom the show would cease to exist. So is dealing with that stuff better than having no show at all? If your answer is yes - well then it's pretty easy for you to make that happen: just don't watch it.

[@multiranger6362]

You should do an infect episode with Craig