Rivian and Tesla Have THIS in Common | R1T Suspension System

[@robcossin4690]

So to see Jordan do a standing back flip, I'll re-watch this video a few times!

[@batchint]

the thing is what do you follow it up with... #thebackflip

[@fred993a]

Jordan and Scott - your engineering analyses are spectacular. Thank you.

[@pootube45]

man you guys make your jobs look fun! and a standing backflip in dress clothes is always impressive, look forward to seeing it one day!

[@stevebakker6884]

Welcome Scott. You look like you will do very well. Just remember that we like our acronyms broken down for ease of digestion. ;>

[@MrBadgas]

Winning duo for presentations for sure. And yes, backflip please.

[@pnketia]

You two are great together as presenters! I enjoy watching and learning from your detailed analysis. Great job guys! Would like to also see Jordan do a standing backflip🙂

[@Billscienceguy]

The rear LCAs are machined on both sides because they are the same part, just flipped for the other side, so it makes sense to be machined on two sides

[@nickwulf]

Jordan is so great running videos, really enjoy him explaining analysis!

[@b4804514]

And a great smile

[@aayotechnology]

Love the ending! Glad I watched til the end. It’s cool to see a team of engineers be able to joke around.

[@williamelkington5430]

Good analysis! Thanks! And yes, let’s see that back-flip, Jordan!

[@heinrichgerhardt6119]

Those front struts are a joint effort: the upper air spring part is from "United Kingdom" (1:46) and the damper section (Monroe-branded) from Poland. And about the 11th-hour aux air compressor: neither it nor the main suspension one are actively cooled, so if there were only one compressor, that leaves the possibility of the main one getting cooked from, say, pumping up a huge innertube at the lake, that would leave the truck dead in the water so to speak. So having the aux one is insurance against the bad "optics" of a Rivian on a tow truck...

[@cdstoc]

That accessory air compressor looks exactly like the ARB compressor I bought specifically for pumping up tires on my 4x4 after they've been aired down for sand driving. ARB is Australian, like the part you showed.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Identical extrusion (they normally blue anodise?) Same casting pattern with the "flares" on the fins. Same endcap for the electrics. Definitely ABR

[@rlaxton666]

Yeah, nothing bespoke about that. Basic ARB compressor with custom branding. Definitely weird that they have two compressors though.

[@eigenvalue9358]

I didn't like Jordan when he started with the fridge, but he has grown a ton, and the dynamic with Scott is excellent. I really enjoy their videos, great job!

[@BigEightiesNewWave]

The best part of the video was seeing parts made in UK/Poland/OZ. NOT China. Breath of fresh air.

[@mundoracer]

The rear lower suspension arms look like they are the same part, left and right...this explains the unused threads on opposite sides

[@jameshay884]

Wonderful channel, and I’m certainly no mechanical engineer. Munro is so smart to employ such hugely well-educated and articulate young people. One does wonder how the USA can produce people of this high calibre at the same time as the USA has such enormous societal problems. So it is encouraging to see, from outside, that parts of the Nation work so extremely well. Good luck to the USA!

[@_PatrickO]

They hire well-educated and articulate old people too!

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Knowledgeable Boss (management) hires top line experts...... Reminds me of another company🤔.

[@MikeCasey311]

Excellent, I learn something new every time I watch Munro. 👍👍🇺🇸

[@MunroLive]

Thanks 👍

[@brothervance1932]

Nerdgasm worthy deliveries, both! Excellent, elegant, enthusiastic, concise and succinct oration. The epitome of engineering ‘show & tell.’

[@tianjohan4633]

I think we need to push this vid to everyone. I would surely enjoy to watch that back flip.These tear downs and detailed videos are great. Keep up the fantastic work.

[@waltermoorhouse2011]

Wow, great chemistry. These guys get along!

[@williewalker8048]

These two are the "A" team for presenting. Great chemistry, they compliment each other and it is apparent you get along. One other thing, Rivian is definitely over engineered. anyone who got the first generation has a vehicle probably worth twice if not 3 times what you paid for.

[@privettoli]

I agree over-engineered is the right word, they don't get the value of 3 times what they paid for but Rivian spent more than they paid for for sure.

[@clive4500]

My thoughts are that the reason they have two compressors is that the one used for the air suspension might not be rated for high duty cycle. And that if somebody was using the air compressor for extended periods or just using the air facility a lot. The service life of that compressor could be exceeded in a short amount of time. The cheaper compressor may actually be lower volume and rated for higher duty cycle.

[@Clark-Mills]

Great team, period! :) Thanks guys / all.

[@MunroLive]

You bet!

[@williamelkington5430]

Excellent analysis. Thank you.

[@diraziz396]

08:10 - I tend to agree with Rivian as the Compressor is essential to the driving, better have a secondary unit for leisure. Great content. Thanks

[@jambay4785]

I'm not a mechanic, do fiddle with my truck sometimes but mostly craft/maker stuff and always enjoy learning about systems and production components and processes.

[@LarsDennert]

The small compressor is an arb. Its for air locking diffs. Been in production for many years. Very reliable.

[@brianb-p6586]

ARB compressors are not just for air supply to locking differentials, even if many of them are installed for that purpose.

[@Tomm9y]

Credit to Sandy for such a good team, these two are great presenters, know their stuff. Decent values and knowledge.

[@ronaldsabban29]

Scott was great. Very clear and engaging.

[@patrickkenny2077]

Really appreciate the added insight on how you would improve things. You two make a great team; presenting together makes both of you look even more insightful.

[@pablopicaro7649]

Thanks for review and intro to these devices, Interesting equipment, unusual stuff to see for most.

[@MunroLive]

Thanks for watching!

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

THANKS JORDAN AND ( Glad to see you’re back ) SCOTT … and the rest of the MUNRO team …. Doing what you do best.👍😎😁💚💚💚

[@michaelcawker7496]

The rear lower control arms have machining on both sides to alow them to be used on either side of the vehicle instead of left and right variants.

[@michaelcawker7496]

I think 🤔.....

[@brianb-p6586]

It looks like that is likely.

[@C1Ksdafafdsa980ufsd]

Yep, they appear largely symmetrical other than the pivot nut. Does the bolt have a shoulder so the two holes sizes are the same? Fully symmetrical? Or a common casting to be machined?

[@normangebhardt2092]

Thanks Jordan and Scott for your interesting and detailed insights into the Rivian suspension.

[@MunroLive]

Thanks for watching, Norman

[@jeffenglish9714]

Great video as the two of you compliment each other in making complex topics easier to understand & appreciate… Jordan-“Get big air.” Thank you

[@Show-me-how-now]

Great job gentleman. That was like watching Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux play hockey for team Canada. Cheers from Ottawa Canada.

[@mundoracer]

When speaking on the f150 rear leaf spring suspension, should clarify that the ev lightning does not use leaf springs

[@brianb-p6586]

True, and same for Chevrolet: the Silverado has rear leaf springs and a beam axle, but the Silverado EV has independent rear suspension.

[@privettoli]

And then the question is which one feels better on bumps and potholes in real life.

[@amolbhagwat6816]

Very informative. Thank you! As I am purchasing a Rivian the more technical information is out there the better the community will be. All power to Jordan and Scott.

[@gordonborsboom7460]

I cannot believe the size of that calliper. Almost the size of the lower control arm. Crazy strong brakes.

[@CharAznableLoNZ]

I would worry about the security the electric parking brake can provide in the Rivian compared to a mechanical one on other vehicles in offroad environments. It is common knowledge you park with your rig locked into 4WD when parking on steep offroad areas. This allows all four wheels to participate via the drivetrain in keeping the vehicle from moving. Seems the Rivian would only use the back wheels, given the greater weight of the Rivian, it might slide down a hill dragging the back wheels the whole way. I've seen it happen to Jeeps that were parked in 2H, it can and will happen with the Rivian. Would be nice if that motorized park brake was on all four wheels. Maybe this is a change that can be put into a future model of theirs.

[@unitrader403]

Regarding the redundant machining on the Lower Control Arms: Are they maybe Mirrored (or are otherwise mostly the same)? so they have the same Part for both Left and Right, and the side where it goes is decided in a diffrent step where this blue Nut is added? Still Savings potential there, but this would allow for some more flexibility

[@martingahan2267]

Great video. Educational as always.

[@MunroLive]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@rogerstarkey5390]

22:50 By moving the air reservoir forward Scott also saved about 5' of high pressure line. Saving pennies!

[@helmutkrahn9337]

Well that was fun - on both sides of the camera, it seems!

[@calholli]

You guys vibe so well together and you're so articulate. I bet you would do well if you guys got together and did a podcast; where you could talk about everything and not just cars. I'd certainly watch it.

[@SCWgreg]

Great review and analysis guys! Good team. Backflip Jordan!

[@charleshaggard4341]

Great job, guys. I want to see a back flip!!!

[@AndyRRR0791]

The extra threaded holes are probably non-handed parts in a handed installation. Also interesting the origins of some of these parts. Struts from Poland, air compressors from Australia. Quite a lot of miles travelled before assembly!

[@nooneyouknow7036]

Scott, maybe you can talk in future episodes about the exciting battery research and development that I hear takes place around Golden, CO

[@joe2mercs]

I love to see the analysis of what is but also the considered thoughts about what could be. Integrating components saves weight, adds strength, simplifies assembly, and reduces production costs.

[@brianb-p6586]

In some cases it also increases repair cost, but Munro is never concerned with that - their purpose is to reduce manufacturing cost, regardless of the consequences for the vehicle owner.

[@MSGarrett1]

Air compressor looks conspicuously similar to an ARB compressor (not so coincidentally also from Australia).

[@Alarix246]

Our Czech Tatra trucks have had the pneumatic suspension since I was a boy - at least 50 years. Also their rear wheels were always on half-axle driven from the central column, so they were roding on their outer wheel rims when unloaded. But sometimes since 1980+ uears they added that pneumatic suspension to those rear wheels so when the truck was empty, the air pressure cushion got lowered and this this old funny setup was fixed and imho is better system than other trucks in general.

[@omerbc]

Thanks, Winchester boys!

[@JohnP58]

You’re a good match guy. Very captivating. 👍

[@hallkbrdz]

Use the same compressor for suspension and for air inflation? Yes - VW in 2004+ with the Touareg. However, if you want to use the compressor a lot, having a separate air compressor that is not critical to vehicle functionality is a nice idea.

[@rizzorazzo]

I really enjoyed watching you guys on this one. Very fun and interesting.

[@danoberste8146]

"Let's get Jordan to do a back flip in dress shoes." SAFETY THIRD!!! 😆

[@asaftzadok6647]

Jordan and Scott videos are great 👍

[@thedownwardmachine]

Lol the moment I saw that accumulator, I knew what you all were going to say. I think I’m starting to learn something from this channel!

[@RyuMoto]

You both make a great team

[@MunroLive]

Thanks!

[@bidon5037]

Top notch duo and subject. Keep punching guys! Thanks you.

[@Heckofadeal]

Great Video !!!

[@MunroLive]

Thanks!

[@brightymcbrightface]

17:50 Consider the two motor variant and the R1S. The suspension could be designed to carry the components for the two motor variant of the R1. There might also be a different component configuration for the R1S using shared parts.

[@Dave5843-d9m]

I think Tesla should have updated the Citroen hydraulic suspension system. With two electric pumps there would be no need for a hydraulic accumulator. It could power suspension, brakes, steering and even give a basic active suspension.

[@dobsonimages]

Great work , Both these guys work well together , and no doubt both could work well with anyone on the Munro family. Would love to more videos with Sue and Sandy. Seems like Sandy doesn’t mind passing the ball to some of the younger talent , I am sure in Sandy’s mind that if in the near or far future if his health falters he wants to have several talented young people keep the company moved forward. Please do give us a backflip maybe an unexpected one in front of Sandy and Sue to get the looks on their faces. Cheers to all at Munro.

[@cgauer]

That Australian air compressor (to pump the tires) is made by ARB! Cool!

[@allenpotts8809]

air tanks have moisture and corrode over time I would want that to be a replaceable part and not part of the main structure. some times i really think there ideas are making something faster and cheaper to built but its also a cheaper product with possible long term problems.

[@privettoli]

"over time"… how long are we talking about? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

[@privettoli]

Would it depend on the climate too? Less moisture in the air in Colorado vs. Florida

[@allenpotts8809]

@@privettoli yes climate changes that. Not sure I know my compressor in the garage I have to drain all the time.

[@magnus_jaya]

Thumbs up guys. Great work.

[@allstarnb1]

Are the lower control arms and struts the same part numbers? Is it possible those additional machined perches are there so the part can be used on either side?

[@neilfromclearwaterfl81]

I believe it was about 30 or 40 years ago that GM/Chevrolet gasoline powered medium duty trucks went to the AutoPark Brake System powered by an electric motor to replace the parking pawl in the transmission. You saw these in the P-Series Van Chassis used by delivery companies (UPS, FedX, Bakeries, Fritos, SnapOnTools, etc, etc), Ambulances and Motor Homes. Transmissions without a parking pawl are not a new thing that just recently came about due to electrification and have been widely used in many vehicles providing for our daily needs and emergency services using automatically activated electric parking brakes with no parking pawl in the transmission on the road in the US for almost four decades now.

[@brianb-p6586]

I didn't know that medium-duty trucks had already gone this way - thanks! After quick web search it appears that this system was used when GM 4L80E were used on trucks too heavy for that transmission's parking pawl, and with transmissions that didn't have parking pawls (e.g. Allison 2100). At least some (probably all) of these systems use a dedicated drum brake on the transmission output shaft, not parking brakes at the wheels.

[@neilfromclearwaterfl81]

@@brianb-p6586 That single brake drum on the drive shaft was a problem unless the rear differential was a fully locked differential since with a regular unlocked differential all you needed was for one rear wheel to loose traction and then you'd have no more parking brake. The automatic system that securely sets both rear brakes is a huge improvement over the early systems or even the parking pawl. No danger of dropping the drive shaft trying to engage the new system when the vehicle is moving.

[@brianb-p6586]

@@neilfromclearwaterfl81 I appreciate the advantage of parking brakes on individual wheels, but my motorhome (on a 2008 Ford F53 chassis) has just a drum brake on the driveshaft as a parking brake (operated by a typical foot pedal), in combination with a transmission parking pawl (in the 4R100 automatic transmission). This is not uncommon, or unique to automatic transmission vehicles without a parking pawl. In the case of the F53, the driveshaft-mounted drum is used because the fixed-caliper disk brakes on the rear axle do not include a parking function, and Ford (or Dana) chose not to add separate parking calipers. It works for us, so far. The driveshaft-mounted parking brake should not be capable of exerting enough torque to damage the driveshaft.

[@neilfromclearwaterfl81]

@@brianb-p6586 Automatically or rather Manually Activated and Electrically Applied in an emergency situation such as with loss of hydraulic brakes at speed the old autopark system (which the older F53 did not have) has been noted as too aggressive since it cannot really be modulated like a foot or hand operated brake so its either full on or completely off. It can lead to loss of directional stability and can result in dropping the driveshaft especially on a high mileage vehicle or an older unit run in the Salt Belt. I have maintained and owned both P-30 and F-53 along with GM and Ford Super Duty trucks. Had one driver go over the guardrail when the driveshaft tube failed and dug into the pavement flipping the truck over and down into a swamp however thankfully he just got a few scrapes and bruises. That failure was on a truck that was less than a year old. On the disc brakes not having a park brake function, thats at the discretion of the chassis builder since you can stack a drum with the disc or have a secondary caliper such as the 120 series Wildwood mechanical parking brake calipers or get a caliper with a cam lever or other actuator on it (cam lever option has been available since at least the 1960's) to provide park/emergency braking.

[@JigilJigil]

Great video, I like to give a suggestion as well, it would be nice while you are speaking about the different parts also share where they are made and who have made them, (as some of them can be discovered from the stickers on them even in this video).

[@alexsamson9942]

Yes, like where were the castings made, were they done here in US?

[@chrisgoebel8867]

informative, inspiring and fun

[@MunroLive]

Glad you think so!

[@DavidLeee]

best lines of the review "you just wag your finger and go these guys" and "id really like to see a tube stuck to the cradle". you guys are awesome, thanks for all the knowledge and the fun.

[@jrockerstein]

Gotta get these likes up!! Standing backflip in dress shoes!!

[@MrFoxRobert]

Thank you!

[@MunroLive]

You're welcome!

[@BigCDawg785]

Is the rear control arm the same part for right and left? Could be the reason for the unused holes.

[@GOVAUS1]

2:30 - Made in Poland. Excellent. FYI, there is also a channel on YT named Made in Poland.

[@GroovyVideo2]

Well done - Thanks

[@MunroLive]

Our pleasure!

[@francismcswiney5610]

Welcome home Scott! Now, from an old marine! Check your gig line!😂

[@brianb-p6586]

Are the rear lower control arms identical? If so, they would be turned to opposite orientations on the opposite sides, and the two machined mounting points would be needed on the single part to accommodate the assembly of both sides.

[@TheFldh]

Could it be that whole in front lower controlarm at TC 20:00, is already forged and it has been machined just to get a nice, fine finish in that surface aera?

[@bradj7205]

Great job. My thoughts..is it possible the rear lower arm is a single forging designed to be used on both sides of the vehicle? The 2 arms zip tied together look symmetrical…if so, that would explain the pad and extra machined surface and holes that are not being used. On the accumulator, I do agree with the concept of combining it with something that is preexisting, just not sure the rear subframe is the best idea. Tank failures are obviously pretty rare, but if a tank DID fail, not only would it mean replacement of the entire rear subframe, but it could possibly represent a structural integrity issue on such a highly loaded component.

[@tonysimi5763]

Well done

[@brightymcbrightface]

6:50 The aux air compressor looks like an 11th hour bail out. I'd guess they started with one pump and an integral distribution block with regulator for the utility air. I'm guessing the operating parameters of the suspension air and the utility air are disparate and they encountered a deal breaker forcing them to resort to that aux pump. Hopefully R1.1 has a heat pump, one air pump, bigger frunk, bigger thermal management capacity, dynamic aero (a chin splitter at the front could drop down 4+ inches to greatly improve aero and complete redesign of the 2nd row seat (R1T and R1S) along with obviously the 180kWh+ "Max Pack" battery bringing hopefully much better charge curve and better battery efficiency.)

[@D44rkFx]

The accessory air compressor was originally going to be an option that Rivian just decided to incorporate into every truck.

[@carholic-sz3qv]

Into every high end truck because they can make similar truck but with just adaptative suspensions no need of air or hydraulics which are expensive

[@ruftime]

Thank you! I’ve owned cars without park pawls for over 40 years……with only a few edge case events😎 Those small redundant bosses on the suspension look like mounts for height sensors?

[@kevindavis8143]

My worrirs about using only the brake: People are cheap and skip maintenance regularly. If the pads or rotors are too worn, you want that redundancy. Backyard mechanics will need an option when maintaining the rear brakes. The weight makes most tire chucks useless, hopefully they figure that out

[@Otterbruce]

Golden CO is still a wonderful place to be.

[@zodiacfml]

the energy of these guys vs the older ones.😅 admittedly, i'm probably as old as the senior engineers.

[@VoxelLoop]

For the 'park', in Europe most cars are manual (Due to our myth of 'manual allows for more control'), we just have an electronic parking brake like Tesla. With it off, the car rolls away. No transmission/engine 'parking'. 🙂 Its always been that way so I don't really see it being an issue. My dad's 2014 Peugeot has an electric in-caliper parking brake as well. It's very common.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Up to 30(?) years ago manual DID "provide more control! Now.... ? Debatable (although every auto I've ever driven hads "moments". EVs aren't either.

[@brianb-p6586]

@3:44 that's an air spring (which you can call an air bag); it is not a strut of any kind.

[@SomeTechGuy666]

It's easy to see why Rivian has a cost problem on these vehicles. Everything is first class.

[@markplott4820]

RIVIAN almost makes NOTHING in their Vehicles, TESLA China is 95% in House.

[@gordkao]

Will need to see what happens in version 2 and beyond. They'll have to start doing cost reductions like Teslas

[@carholic-sz3qv]

@@gordkao no they just needs to offer this same truck but with much less features like no air suspensions, but with adaptive suspensions…..

[@SomeTechGuy666]

@@gordkao Achieving higher production volume would help too.

[@calholli]

I disagree about integrating the tank into the cradle. If the tank ever has a leak or stripped fittings, gets a dented crack, etc. and needs to be replaced for some reason-- now you would have to replace the entire cradle; not good. What Tesla did makes a lot more sense because it's still a smaller part, and yet it's serving multiple functions, and still easily replaceable. It's not good to integrate things that may need to be renewed later-- and all pressure vessels have a shelf life. I do like the idea of integrating things and getting more than one use of whatever you can; and also with Tesla leading the way with the large body castings-- great stuff. But you have to draw a line between the bulk structure items and consumable accessories. For example, you wouldn't want to integrate the alternator and starter into the block of an engine -- I'm sure you could do it, but it's just not a great idea. Some things are best left isolated and easily removable/ replaceable.

[@me1assassin]

Bumpers make great air tanks. More tank air the better. It's all about CFM. Though, even on suspension, and this is a question on the Tesla, how do you get rid of water accumulation in the air tanks? Is there an auto purge? As to tires, airing up/down, on a 100K truck, that should be a 'button' on the dash. Central Inflation System.

[@chrisjeanneret5091]

Interesting that the early automatics didn't have parking pawls, although as I understand the early Hydramatic had a work around using reverse.

[@musingsbymarco5001]

We like Scott!

[@Crazyreseller]

Can you please do some on road testing with towing with the rivian, f150, and CT when available? Range, power, braking, load etc?

[@flyyxmke]

The accumulators will probably be okay for a while until they get moisture in them from the compressed air. Hopefully the inside has a coating for corrosion on the aluminum. If not you will get a flaky white residue that can contaminate the system. I’ve had this happen on bigger equipment. Probably a better design in the long run as the vehicle ages. That way you can just replace the tank. And not a costly structural component.

[@alexsamson9942]

Thats right! The Rivian scheme has an advantage but like everything else nowadays, the accountants will eventually take control.

[@richardnedbalek1968]

25:12 Who else wants to see Jordan do a standing backflip?!?! 👍🦵

[@49walker44]

2 compressors aren't bad if they are the same and able to function in either capacity. Great backup and with a good control system can set duty cycles. Can the vehicle still function if the suspension system compressor goes down? I've had a couple of vehicles it failed, took pieces of wood and wire to get home, bumping and thumping all the way. Great video.

[@49walker44]

If you have a need for air such as air tools or multiple users, a larger air tank and ability to run both compressors would be really handy when volume is needed more than pressure.

[@DaveTimperley]

Hay, that aux compressor is assembled in Oz!!! :-)