Rivian's NEW 4695 Battery cells and 1000V architecture revealed

[@andresamson8859]

Couple of mistakes here. 1. Using cylindrical cells , no matter the size, the packaging density remains the same. Yes the gap are bigger with the bigger cell, but there’s fewer gap. If you take a piece a paper and draw each scenario a measure the surface area of the gap, it will remains identical. 2. The size of the cell (if cooled properly) doesn’t affect the charging rate. It’s the chemistry that determines the C-rating of a cell. 3. Having fewer cell limits the arrangement possibilities for voltage. You have your put cells in series to increase voltage. Once you achieved the desire voltage, you create more modules of the same arrangement, and you put them in parallel. To achieve 1000v you need about 270 cells in series, then you have 3 of those modules together.

[@smarticus6384]

Samsung SDI is the current supplier of Rivian 21700 cells. Samsung SDI has also developed a 4695 cell. So Rivian is working with its current supplier. This cell is required to achieve the faster charging and better performance Rivian is seeking, and the larger 15mm in size will provide for larger packs within a similar package space.

[@yscol1313]

A new cell form factor actually isn’t required for faster charging. Larger cells often charge slower than comparable small cells because they are more difficult to cool. It’s only possible if you design the cell to produce less heat from charging/discharging.

[@smarticus6384]

@@yscol1313 The size of the cell can affect the C-rate, e.g., a 50kWh battery pack with a 3C rate could handle 150kW peak charging, while a 100kWh battery pack made up of the same cells could potentially handle as high as 300kW peak, assuming the BMS and the charger could handle that much power. Also, we know that charging can be slow at the bottom and top of the pack; the same is true when looking at the cell level. If the cell is denser, wouldn't the capacity between the bottom and top be larger?

[@yscol1313]

When designing a new cell, there is usually a trade-off between power density and energy density, one o the reasons being what you have articulated here. If there is more "capacity" stored in a smaller space (or with a smaller cooling area)", it will ultimately lead to lower power denstiy because of cooling limitations. As I mentioned previously, this is overcome by reducing the heat losses within the cell.But there are still trade-offs between power and energy densities.@@smarticus6384

[@ccibinel]

I'd love to see the specs on these. Aptera is planning to use 2190 / 21120 cells for their larger range versions. If this improves the energy density enough that will allow for the 600/1000 mile Apteras with the same battery tray design.

[@hendrikbarboritsch7003]

Maybe a stupid question, but could batteries be made as hexagons, vertically, to eliminate wasted space between them? Or do they have to be round?

[@thechurchandthenations]

Viking the reason is simple. Tesla is more efficient. Less battery pack for same range. Therefore tesla competitors have to have a bigger battery storing more kwh to get the same range. The easiest way is by making a Taller battery

[@terryward1422]

I am curious about how cooling will be provided to these new cells because they will be expose to very demanding performance use cases. Imagine the thermal conditions caused by a long rock crawling journey in a desert during the summer heat...

[@Vector2030]

I am sure Kumyang from South Korea new battery manufacture will supply new 4695 battery to Rivian

[@johnhedge1429]

It would be really really beneficial if someone would explain in a table of facts the pros and cons of all the battery technologies that are available; please.

[@ФёдорЛукин-у1о]

I suggest considering a short tour to China and talking to local taxi drivers, seeing what people drive etc.I guess that'll be enough to get all the answers. And see everything in person

[@ludosys4903]

Tailosive EV gave it a try a while ago (don’t be misled by the skit from the intro, kzbin.info/www/bejne/iX65ZJdpnrWsqZI

[@analogdesigner-Jay]

I question the production yield of these larger cells...

[@terryward1422]

Gee! There are so many events that the R3X could enter to test Rivian's technology that I am getting excited to see a production intent version on a trail for testing...

[@vanrozay8871]

I'm an old guy. I drive every day, seldom far. Also don't care about speed; the lowest-end Rivian will be plenty peppy to my needs. So cheapest model, with LFP pack, would be fine for me. All that said, I'm waiting for compact Tesla instead; not too long now.......

[@ahbushnell1]

The larger cell will have higher thermal impedance because of the geometry. I wonder what the geometry of the coolant flow is? If it's going between the cells there will be less of an impact.

[@j4k3br4k3]

That R2 pack is going to be 85-90kWh

[@nerdbikes3841]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a BMW /Rivian alliance form with Rivian being BMW’s off-road brand going up directly against Land Rovercand G-Wagon. Rivian will likely need funding to ramp up R2 and R3 production and get the Georgia plant built and BMW could be the white knight instead of having to go to Wall Street for another round of funding.

[@johnv9854]

I put a deposit down on the R2. I think it looks nice. In 2 years we will see....

[@stevelongden7368]

Well done on reaching 200k subs 🎉 fully deserved for all the hard useful, interesting work you put in. Best wishes to you and the family.

[@electricviking]

Thank you very much!

[@tedg1609]

Is the R2 drive-by-wire, or old style ? Anybody know ?

[@sworks7124]

I have an R1T now and put a deposite on the R2. Rivian engineers amazing hardware and software.

[@Alantj22]

Sam's claim that the larger cells will charge factor is incorrect./misleading. Each cell will take more current but for any set pack size there will be less of them, so no advantage. He is also wrong about larger batteries leading to more wasted space. The percentage of wasted space remains the same.

[@robertvadjinia126]

Look … I’m no battery expert… far from it… but by using deductive reasoning, I’m guessing the 15 mm height difference is due to the difference between the traditional tab arrangement versus the tabless design. So the 4680 remains shorter offering a lower CG for the pack… and offering cheaper manufacturing costs with tabless…

[@terryward1422]

For sure someone is going to enter an R3X into an endurance race like the Daskar. How will the thermal management work under those conditions?

[@RWBHere]

The same as for any other cylindrical cell battery pack. The same percentage of coolant space applies whatever the cell diameter. For better cooling of a larger diameter cell's centre better thermal conductivity is needed at the two ends, and there will be a limit to maximum height because of this. But that limit can be staved off by having more coolant flowing around the batteries. I.e. better heatsinks, bigger radiators and faster fluid flow.

[@paulholterhaus7084]

I insist on LFP's for their durability and safety........Only drive 10 miles/Day...........Paul

[@ctuna2011]

No replacement in the 4680 setup in a Tesla . And it's not modular either . Did you see the Sandy Munro tear down.

[@Goodkiwibloke]

NMC + 10C = heat + short battery lifespan 1000V battery = dangerous for first responders, repairers, dismantlers (wreckers)

[@chrisheath2637]

Maybe Rivian should have focussed on the 4680 form factor - more of an industry standard. Panasonic, Samsung and LG are in the process of setting up manufacturing for these. Tesla have done their homework on this form factor, and concluded it is optimal. Even so, both Tesla and Panasonic have come across the (inevitable) production problems with this larger form factor (larger than standard 2170 for example). For Rivian and BMW to jump to 4695, to me, seems a bit questionable, with little extra gain over 4680. Batteries, as has been proven, are difficult, costly and time intensive to manufacture at scale. If, as Elon says, production is hard - it is easy to convince someone that an extra 1.5 centimeters will fill a battery floor space with extra capacity - but to achieve that ( in production) may prove to be extraordinarily tricky....

[@Aztasu]

4680 cells are inferior, so why would they settle for something worse?

[@yscol1313]

I believe tesla went with 4680 over 4695 for a number of reasons: 1) ability to be used in more compact vehicles without raising the floor too much 2) a balance of improved cost of production with fewer cells to go wrong but with the drawback that it’s more likely to have reduced yields in production. Think of it like small vs large dies on a silicon wafer. 3) they just don’t think it’s necessary to have so much battery capacity so would rather have a thinner skateboard than a thicker one that’s incomplete. 4) It’s possible they also didn’t believe they had the cell chemistries available to make it possible at the time and that it would work well in future vehicles such as Tesla Semi.

[@joenavarro2973]

Emulation is the best form of flattery.

[@juliahello6673]

Yes, but I wish EV companies and traditional automakers were innovating on their own instead of just scrambling to copy everything Tesla does. If we want to improve EVs fast we need everyone to pull their own weight.

[@ChicagoBob123]

Most interesting take on Rivians future vehicles. Thanks for that Viking. Everyday you deliver content that's both interesting and differnt.

[@electricviking]

Glad you like them!

[@MrGMawson2438]

Almost afternoon mate and the R3X could be good

[@chaso4937]

I WAS SURPRISED THAT THEY DIDN'T FIX THE ONE DESIGN FLAW THAT BOTH THE R1T AND THE R1S HAVE IN COMMON; THE HIGH LIFTOVER HEIGHT OF THE "FRUNK"???

[@i6power30]

Disappointed on flush door handles on Rivian. Being a squarish shaped SUV, making door handles flush does little to improve range, just adds inconvinience on everyday opening the door, and bad for cold weather situations.

[@BootsieTheGreek]

I think quantumscape has better tech to be honest

[@NiejakiDD]

Imagine such a thick 10+cm floor in every electric car.

[@itisim]

Rivian #2

[@bobbycake8077]

Biggest fail is chargers on the wrong side gonna make everything a pain in the butt Tesla should force everyone to put it on the right side. If they want to use their net work.

[@Aztasu]

Nobody fucking cares about the outdated Tesla supercharges, they can't even properly charge 800V vehicles. NACS is an open standard and many manufacturers will install solid and truly fast chargers.

[@tesla_tap]

Right rear works well for Tesla Superchargers as does Left front. Center rear or front also works fine. Worst is Right Front or Left rear, as it forces owners to waste two parking stalls. Tesla can deal with it by charging double for those with poorly positioned ports that force the owners to consume two stalls for charging. Doubt Tesla will do it, but it is an option.

[@tonystorcke]

Rectangular batteries would be so much batter. hundreds of 9-volt style batteries. There would be minimal gaps between batteries.

[@richardnwilson]

9 volt batteries are actually a small battery pack consisting of 6 cylindrical a a a a batteries.

[@adamdarrow]

I am sure you know better than Rivian.

[@김유진-q3c4x]

Kumyang battery

[@mafianoodles]

i haven't heard of them. just sayin.

[@xexas3000]

I guess everyone will eventually converge on prismatic cells due to packaging. Everyone keeps evolving to bigger cells...

[@American_Energy]

NCA / NMC = Cylindrical LFP / LMFP / M3P = Prismatic The other way around is too much fire risk.

[@jackylsmith8138]

Sandy Monroe said before Tesla came out with 4680. That he recommended an even larger battery than the 4680 size that Tesla came out with. So, I guess you should say he is wrong too.

[@Joeblk10]

You know half the things you talk about you seem to just make up. Very misleading

[@Michael-yi4mc]

The unknown is always questionable. The mass media will not cover a story so full of uncertainty. But Sam will.

[@squishedfrog99-gp4qq]

When you spit out so many videos to make money, what do you expect. BS on steroids.

[@MPTran-pz1gm]

When you do so little research about EV then you think Sam doesn't know what he's talking about. Maybe you should view all his videos and read all the related research then make your comments would do more justice.

[@Joeblk10]

@@MPTran-pz1gm I have and half his stuff is made up for clicks. Perhaps you should do your research instead of just believing whatever you see on KZbin. You probably get your news from tik tok and think CNN and Fox are actual news too.

[@Joeblk10]

@@MPTran-pz1gm I have and do plenty which is how I know not to believe anything this fool says without verifying. You should probably practice what you preach

[@scottmcshannon6821]

rivian makes their own cells? really?

[@Aztasu]

EVERY bigger manufacturer will have an 800V architecture in their mid-size and middle-class EVs. A direct Model 3 competitor with 800V are the Hyundai Ioniq 6 or the upcoming Mercedes-Benz CLA, for example. If Tesla is not coming up with an 800V platform for the Model Y update, which I highly doubt that they would and could, then Tesla's lineup will be even more outdated than it is aleady today. The Rivian R2 and R3 look awesome and premium. By the way, your yapping about the 4695 cells is not based on knowledge or information whatsoever. BMWs engineers already said they are superior to 4680, other engineers or journalist which have deeper insights about this topic agree. The cells are produced by CATL in partnership with BWW, but Samsung also produces 4695 cells, Rivian probably use CATL or its current partner Samsung, which is a smart choice.

[@mlevesque33]

Sam only cares about the price of the batteries. LFP has a lower energy density than NMC type batteries. Adding more LFP to get similar range (on paper) as NMC will make the car heavier and we know that heavy cars loses range.

[@yeahman211]

$45000 in 2.5 years will be what $55,000 is today, aka uncompetitive. Rivian is going to have to cut COGS to an unreasonable extent in an environment that now includes Tesla with a product that competes directly with Tesla's most scaled product. Do you really think the Model Y won't be significantly upgraded (and cheaper) by then?

[@tesla_tap]

800V vs. 400V is really not much of an issue. It saves a tiny amount of copper cost, but adds cost for more insulation. It does make sense for very large vehicles (trucks), but not so much for sedans and most SUVs which 400v vs. 800v is unimportant other than a scamy sales point. The consumer doesn't care, and if you want the largest reliable charging network, you want 400v today. Perhaps in 3-5 years 800V reliable charging will be common, but not today. Most 800v vehicles today have very poor 400v charging, other than the Cybertruck. That can be fixed with a good design, but so far companies like Lucid really screwed it up.

[@domlarry]

Pre.order for a.car coming in 2026 Obsolete by then tbh

[@DirkSmith-f4h]

Sam, thermal/energy coal is a totally different product than coking/met coal. One’s use is decreasing while the other is increasing. Please do your homework

[@Truecolors326]

CATL 😮 : The Shenxing Battery is a SUPER DUPER BATTERY AND IT IS FOR ALL 😮: THANKS CATL WE ARE ALL STILL WAITING FOR YOUR UNICORN TO RIDE IN ON A CLOUD RAINBOW AND.TO.SPREAD PIXY DUST ON US ALL.

[@bydman5320]

I repeat 4680 is blockbuster video. Prismatic cells use 30% less space. When will you figure this out

[@cerverg]

Why nobody is using them? Maybe there is reason for that? Like thermal management problems? Just a wild guess on my side

[@bydman5320]

@@cervergnobody uses what?

[@robertvadjinia126]

Ever battery expert I’ve seen evaluate and compare form factors for batteries have very plainly stated cylindrical are the best… and it’s really not even close

[@bydman5320]

@@robertvadjinia126 you haven’t spoken to the experts then have you from China. You seriously need to do some research on the blade battery, still the best battery on the planet

[@rambo4war]

Elon has AI models telling engineers the optimal size, but hey a couple of guys saying bigger is better and bigger gaps rock is okie I guess.

[@havencat9337]

this Rivian looks like atoy...very plastic

[@andreasl4507]

Truly ugly cars.