Babylon 5 Newbies React to 4x9 | Atonement | First Time Watching

Join Mike, Julien, Gerard, and Ray as they react to "Atonement," the ninth episode of Babylon 5’s fourth season. In this gripping episode, the team delves into the themes of redemption and accountability as key characters confront their pasts.
Watch as our reactors explore the emotional journey of Delenn and the significant revelations about her history with the Minbari. The episode also emphasizes the importance of personal choices and the impact they have on the future, setting the stage for the challenges ahead.
Expect a lively discussion packed with insights, humor, and heartfelt moments as they share their thoughts on the character development and the moral complexities presented throughout the episode. If you love engaging discussions and deep dives into the sci-fi universe, be sure to like, comment, and subscribe for more thrilling reactions!
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Gerard - @g3rard2.0
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[@chrisfraser5088]

Hearing Delenn screaming “NO MERCY” is genuinely sooooo chilling. Still gets me to this day. Mira Furlan was incredible in this one! I love how JMS ultimately tied Delenn’s history to Sinclair’s. Closing the circle. Love it.

[@SierraSierraFoxtrot]

That was the most shocking thing ever, after building up Delenn as a hero for 3+ seasons...

[@lovipoekimo176]

Agreed. It was the perfect mix of rage and despair.

[@commanderkruge]

She was an awesome actress. Caused a bunch of goosebump outbreaks over the whole series for me. :D

[@sdfried4877]

All while pounding on Robin Atkin Downes. That acting choice always impressed me. Delenn is so angry she’s just beating the closest person in the room.

[@iamnotanuggetblackhart5103]

ACK! You stopped too soon! He was going to sing through the end of the credits, and Franklin snaps, where the director then yells "CUT!!" and Marcus goes "What?!" It is an amusing part.

[@Eldormain9]

Thanks for posting. I was about to post the same thing.

[@differous01]

37:07 Marcus: "...I'm teaming with a lot of news With many useful facts about the length of the hypotenuse. With many useful facts about the length of the hypotenuse. With many useful facts about the length of the hypotenuse..." Franklin: "Aaagghh!"

[@iamnotanuggetblackhart5103]

@@differous01 "CUT!"

[@stuartanderws5705]

He was a bit pist he lerned the hole song and they only used 30 second of it. and even you lot cut it short to talk.

[@iamnotanuggetblackhart5103]

@@stuartanderws5705 LOL he was RUSHING to talk. It wasn't even a hesitation, it was like a snap instant click and stop.

[@JWildberry]

Remember how "Arthur" gave the sword to the "Lady of the Lake?" He couldn't have known what role she played in that, but considering how much the Minbari care for symbolism and ceremony, it must have been a very powerful moment for her.

[@stevecollette6831]

Sinclair came back as a Mimbari....not a human. And yes, Delenn started the Earth-Mimbari war. She was the one that kicked it off and with a vengeance. Yes, she is a descendant of Sinclair. Mind-blowing!

[@StephenCole1916]

You should've continued through the credits where Marcus kept singing the song 🤣

[@RKnights]

Did not know until it was too late

[@Petrosman]

@RKnights that's on me. I should have come in chat sooner and told you guys.

[@iamnotanuggetblackhart5103]

@@RKnights You had an itchy trigger finger lol.

[@BogeyTheBear]

23:54 In truth, the Mimbari did not understand the provocation: The sensors on the Mimbari ships were so powerful that the Earth Force ships thought they were being jammed, and the Mimbari gravitic engine fields prevented the human ships from forming a jump point to escape. With gunports open and all that active interference, the humans assumed the only way to get away was to disable or destroy the Mimbari ship. That's why they turned tail and fled as soon as they could.

[@MiLikesVids]

The Minbari of the past didn't know anything about humans or that Valen was originally a human. They just thought he was a miraculous being brought to them by the Vorlons. His wife, on the other hand, brought problems.

[@differous01]

37:07 Marcus: "...I'm teaming with a lot of news With many useful facts about the length of the hypotenuse. With many useful facts about the length of the hypotenuse. With many useful facts about the length of the hypotenuse..." Franklin: "Aaagghh!"

[@JoeKawano]

You have to remember that Delenn is from the Minbari religious caste. 10:20 The reason sacred rituals permeate all of life may having something to do with that, and not be representative of the average Minbari from other castes, or even other walks of life within her own caste (as she is a high ranking leader there: imagine the differences required for Catholic priests, or monks or nuns, vs. other--the laity of Catholics--or even their non-Catholic neighbors, even though they are all the same society).

[@JoeKawano]

And remember they're aliens, and so something about them has got to seem really different and maybe even rub us the wrong way.

[@hedinsee6830]

Sinclair wasn't *human* when he arrived back in time, he was *minbari* .

[@chaost4544]

Season 4 of Babylon 5 is damn legendary.

[@pauljanetzke]

No, that was not Andreas Katsulas' natural eye color. He had brown eyes. The light blue was chosen to make the difference stand out.

[@JoeKawano]

Oh, I thought I read that it was his real eye.

[@pauljanetzke]

@@JoeKawano It was rumored that was the case, but Andreas most definitely had brown eyes. Blue eyed Greeks are rare.

[@timometsanoja9666]

The one thing that will really eff you up from this episode is where the Triluminary really came from... It travelled through time with Sinclair, but it is a loop, but how did the loop start??? In Valen's name...

[@nbartlett6538]

It was created on Epsilon 3 and brought along by Zathras during WWE.

[@DarkNoiseBW]

Yes they said the winner would give a female, but they also said in the same sentence they would give a Female to the side that suffered the most loss/deaths, as a symbol of life. In this case that would be humanity. Also this was simply something to explain to her clan, to calm them without revealing the truth about Minbari's tainted bloodlines, not something that was gonna be declared to humanity, so it matters little in terms of Minbari/Human politics. It was purely a clan issue.

[@briangoss8062]

Yes the whole war was wrapped up quickly because they were originally NOT renewed for the 5th season. JMS wanted to close out the war and move to other story lines before the end. He got real lucky in the show being picked up for the 5th season on TNT. That is why the 5th season is weaker than 3 and 4. He was forced to wrap the war early and work other story lines in his best attempt to provide closures to as many story lines as possible. So when the 5th season comes along he had to scramble to put together some new material which he does as best as he could.

[@JeshuaSquirrel]

The Shadow War was always going to end like that and about then, maybe a couple episodes early due to the necessary compression. I'll let you know when you get to the episode that was originally going to be the end of season 4.

[@rankosaotome]

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this but the reason season 4 feels rushed because it is. When they started season 4 they thought they were canceled and wouldn't get a season 5. so they jammed season 4 and 5 into one season. then they did get a 5th season and had to scramble to finish it off.

[@cabbageplays6710]

i love the fact you all leaned forward, child of valen, means she is one of his decendents, You should have carried on watching, its one of the easter eggs that was built into the script, its only like 30 second after where you stopped, but its funny.

[@Dreamfox-df6bg]

The symbolism of the female given to the looser had two sides, she also goes to the side that lost the most. While the humans won the war because the Minbari surrendered, the humans also lost more people during the war. As this is a symbol for life, it still works out. Also, as mentioned, the humans never need to know. This is for the internal problem of the Minbari.

[@toddkes5890]

13:50 - you are right, this will be important later

[@nathanliteroy9835]

So JMS definately didn't plan this, since it introduces a contradiction to a thing has has said in a Usenet post somewhere in season 3 (don't rememer exactly what, I think it was among the answers about War Without End, and it was regarding whether Velen had children on Minbar). But, but, but, it's an amazing case of a writer paying attention to the show, and making new idea completely seamlessly work with a existing story. And since every other mystery so far has paid off, it feels like it's planned, while being an unexpected (and a delightful) continuation of a story that you thought was finished with Sinclair going away. In most other shows stuff like that often feels like it's tackled on, and often visibly so because it goes against either the spirit of the what's previously shown, or just simply against the facts

[@JeshuaSquirrel]

The twist with Sinclair wasn't planned at the beginning of the show but was certainly thought of when Sheridan came in. And certainly in place by "Passing Through Gethsemane" early in season 3. That episode is one of the earliest I could remember Valen being described as "a Minbari not born of Minbari". And Delenn was always there with the Council at the beginning of the war.

[@briangoss8062]

@@JeshuaSquirrel Minbari not born of Minbar but yes.

[@nathanliteroy9835]

@@JeshuaSquirrel I'm not talking about "Minbari was born of Minbari", I've written that it was regarding JMS answering whether Velen had children in the pas, not him being Valen.

[@Petrosman]

Tbf you guys are right. Sheridan has changed since he came back from Z'Ha'Dum, Garibaldi is right. But how much does thay give Garibaldi the right to behave the way he does? The next few episodes are gonna be crucial for the build-up of the end of season 4, and I really enjoy them

[@Dad.by.Daylight]

Regards the pacing of the story: the network the series was run on went under, and JMS was not sure whether they would get a fifth season, so the majority of the story arcs were tied up earlier than originally intended...

[@Unformed8]

13:45 - We will remember that line xD

[@rafetizer]

As far as believing the reporter's story about wanting to help, don't beat yourself up over it Mike... you're still a young dude. These things are easier to spot as you get more experience under your belt. Ray probably just figured President Clarke was too authoritarian to allow any sort of pro-B5 news on air, and that the reporter guy wouldn't be stupid enough to risk his life doing so. (After all, he had already been sneaky with his undeclared cargo and his little "gotcha" moment when Zack and security are filmed pointing guns at the camera)

[@ScottRutter]

"Atonement" 🎶 I was twelve when my mother died She was holding me We were sick and she was holding me I couldn't seem to die 🎶#Ham4B5

[@alexrobinson8029]

Also after this you guys should watch "In the Beginning" it's a great B5 prequel.

[@alexrobinson8029]

Valen (Sinclair) use religion and prophecy to unite the Mimbari of old, and besides a small handful of people, no Mimbari new Valen's true origin.

[@nathanliteroy9835]

I think that this episode subtly shows that Minbari religious beliefs about souls were based on a falsehood: they use Triluminary to detect souls, Triluminary has shown them that Sinclair has "a soul" of Velen like Lennier reported to Sheridan in episode 2x01, and it was shining in this episode when Delenn touched it because of her "soul". In reality Triluminary seems to be just a biotech device that can change biology like it did for Delenn making her half-human, or Sinclair making him Minbari. And it detects DNA.

[@toddkes5890]

Or the Triluminary was based on Sinclair's comm-link, the DNA adhesive backing. So when a person who has close to Sinclair's DNA has their hand placed close to the 'Triluminary', it will light up.

[@TheFalconerNZ]

Dam I must have missed a watch-a-long 😢 No one controls the dream the dreamer has, the dream reveals a hidden truth the dreamer needs to remember (IMO) as the dream was the last thing the council would want & they had no way of knowing she had that memory. The council were planning to twist the interpretation of the dream to suit their desire but the dream revealed a truth that couldn't be twisted. As for the humans caring that they are 'considered' the losers it doesn't matter as you said the humans are already rewriting history & proclaiming themselves the winners saying they fought he Minari to a stand still which is why the Minbari stopped the attack & the Earth is already discounting all Aliens as unimportant .

[@IsaacBeImont]

Welcome back, Michael!

[@IsaacBeImont]

19:03 😂😂😂😂

[@fade.2.black.ffd8ff]

You should have watched and listened through the credits, this had an easter egg in the singing at the end, long before marvell tried it....

[@chrisnielsen9885]

So if Minbari rituals came from the time of Valen then that means all this is Sinclair’s fault?

[@geordie170101]

1000 years of Chinese whispers told by what are essentially religious fundamentalists.

[@catprog]

@@geordie170101 Based on what he remembered of Minbari rituals.

[@geordie170101]

@@catprogI’m betting the rituals came along not long after Valen died. Sinclair wasn’t much for rituals, I bet he gave them lessons they turned into ritual and ceremony to keep the “religion” solidified. But things drift over time. Who knows maybe Kosh and Ulkesh were the ones who created the ceremonies to keep the Minbari in line and prepped for the next war.

[@SynthAddict]

you guys missed the singing end credits comedy bit, actors breaking character 🙂

[@ZakhadWOW]

SIGH.. DELENN SAID VERY CLEARLY in WWE2 that if a human had been aboard B4 they Minbari would have rejected it.. he used the triluminary to become Minbari (Minbari not born of Minbari) So just back on up with that ridiculous angle of argument. It wasnt known til much later that his children had Human genetics, after all the Minbari didnt know who humans were, just that it was foreign.

[@SierraSierraFoxtrot]

Julian is based and correct in all things.

[@biocapsule7311]

Earth knows very well they didn't win. That was in part what fueled the resentment. It's the same with Vietnam war and Rambo II where he asked 'this time, do we win', everyone knew that the US lose the Vietnam war, and it has always fueled some part of right-wing hawkish sentiment that they need to 'kick-ass' militarily. And now you have Afghanistan, where Bush is desperate to declare a victory, which turn into a longer and more costly defeat. It's the same way, Earth is not deluded that they loose the war, it fueled the need to 'win the next one'. No different in some ways from how the Nazi rise after Germany lose the first world war.

[@quentinmichel7581]

You guys missed a wonderful little voiceover during the credits... Ya'll need to curb the impatience.

[@grendalsuncle4040]

The reason for the war ending early in the season was they were told that the show was not getting a 5 season so they put the last two seasons in one but the 4th season was so good that they got a 5th season anyway.

[@tvdroid22]

She DID NOT EVER MARRY SINCLAIR! There was never any sort of romantic inclination there. Why does this persist?

[@darrenbabidge4694]

It comes from season 1 and the ceremony (Ep3 I think?). The original series plan did have them marry. The end of Babylon Squared scene with older Sinclair was also part of that plotline.

[@tvdroid22]

@@darrenbabidge4694 Plans change. It didn't happen.

[@jonathanclarke5878]

@@darrenbabidge4694 People think that the rebirth ceremony in S1 was a prelude to marriage. It was not. It was a prelude to Delenn's own rebirth, as JMS has said.

[@Carl_Gustav_Häyhä]

About Your discussion at the start: I think Vorlon's really - not almost - were bad. They destroyed whole planet's killing hundred's million's people's and abused many races.

[@roystoyscomics1361]

They didn't have a problem with Valen (Sinclair) because their prophecy referred to him as a Minbari not born of Minbari...not a Minbari who formerly was a human. They had never encountered a human at that point. So of course you are going to have religious zealots concerned about racial purity. Morons. The whole lot of them.

[@ZakhadWOW]

I have to just call you on something, my friend.. NO ONE IS BORN ANY RELIGION. Your parents may christen you, but until you can understand something at all, you arent a specific religion.