So... About Those Trolleybuses

[@RMTransit]

Sorry about the focus issues!

[@TheLordHiggs]

Was just about to comment about that 😂

[@leonardoalvarenga7572]

A Canadian apologizing? What a rare sight.

[@lightningbot85]

As a New Yorker, I would like to remind you that we have pretty good elevated lines, they extend pretty far in the outer boroughs, the 7 line, which is mainly above ground, is one of the best subway lines in NYC. Most are really loud because they are old which kinda sucks, but we also have quiet ones like the short distance on the F line between carrol st and 7th ave in Brooklyn. This part of above-ground line was renovated about a decade ago and now you can barely hear when the train goes by. I really like your channel and the skytrain is probably better than anything we have in NYC but I just wanted to add this second example.

[@Jay-jq6bl]

Have you done a video on hybrid lrt like this? It seems like it would enable a more extensive network, since you don't need the power infrastructure at the extremities of the lines. Particularly, I'm curious where this has been done and how much of their lines are cable free?

[@daanwilmer]

With suck a beautiful LEGO model of the Krokodil behind you, I can't blame the camera for occasionally focusing on that instead of you.

[@aleasenigel9517]

I’m really happy that we’re going to have trolleybuses in Prague after 50 years since all of our cables were torn down. It was a real shame, but we’re recognising the benefits and putting those cables back up!

[@robertcartwright4374]

Bravo Prague!

[@winding5064]

Nice, we have a trolleybus system that still existed when Prague took theirs down, wish Prague had it all the time like us, (I’m from Brno)

[@eozcompany9856]

@@winding5064 They planned to take trolleybuses down everywhere but they only managed to do so in Prague, then the fuel crisis hit and they realised how stupid it is, but it was too late for Prague sadly.

[@robfriedrich2822]

Well, meanwhile Moscow, where the trolley bus was so typical for this city, turned it into battery busses.

[@winding5064]

@@eozcompany9856 Yeah, the rest of Czechia was lucky

[@ShawnBird]

Battery-assisted trolley bus that can charge under wires feels like it could be the future. All the benefits of BEV, with no time wasted charging, and less wear on the battery.

[@KRYMauL]

Add in the fact that the bus are actually AVs and are visibly separated from the stroad. Then you have what I would actually consider the future, basically it’s just the European style bus networks.

[@williamerazo3921]

Yup

[@steffiiizh]

They already exists in Zürich Switzerland. The trolley bus line 83 is wired around 50% off the length. The rest is on battery. They use vehicles from Hess. They are great.

[@neiljopling4693]

I wonder whether less wear on the battery is preferable to more wear on a smaller battery.

[@stupidvoiceofreason]

Exactly

[@charleskummerer]

This is what being a proper and ethical youtuber looks like. Good journalistic integrity and self-reflection.

[@Vitally_Trivial]

We used to have a small trolley bus system in Brisbane, nicknamed the Whispering Death because of how quiet they were. They were initially used to replace a tram line had some pretty steep grades, the newer and larger bogey trams could not climb. The initial plan would have the route extending out west from the city towards the university campus at St Lucia. Unfortunately someone living on Coronation Drive complained that the overhead lines would spoil his view of the Brisbane river, which led to the route being revised, instead heading east over the Story Bridge to the suburbs in that direction. The network grew a little, but when it was announced the trams were going to be removed, the trolley bus network was unable to support itself without its shared infrastructure from the tramways. The last trolleybuses ran in 1968, and the final trams the following year in 69.

[@RMTransit]

Quite the name!

[@kanytonaan5594]

How does it feel living in the same city as the global youtube sensation, Archibald Chesterfield the 3rd?

[@enemixius]

I really hate the "but wires will spoil the view" argument. Like, yeah, you'll notice them for a couple of months at the most, and then they'll just blend into the background. Unless you really want to keep reminding yourself of the wires just to stay mad.

[@pointlarf7412]

It wouldn't make sense to have wires on the trunk line going down the south east freeway in Brisbane for the Metro line

[@chrismckellar9350]

The demise of Brisbane's tram and trolleybus networks was to due the new replacement Victoria bridge across the Brisbane River. Also Brisbane's Lord Mayor at the time, Alderman Clem Jones was pro-freeway and private car.

[@ricktownend9144]

Excellent video! Trolleybuses are NOT gadgetbahns - it's an old, well-tried and reliable technology that has, as you say, been successfully combined with the new battery-tech. And trolleybuses are popular with passengers. I think the reason many systems have closed is the cost of replacing the wires, when that is all done at once (I don't know if that's the case with Boston). For some reason, the obvious financial solution of keeping back some of the fare-income each year, so that funds are there when they are needed, seems to be beyond the managers or owners, though that is perfectly normal business practice in general. I know that you don't usually cover money matters, but it would be really interesting to see a comparison between the setting up costs of trolley-wires. and the costs involved in conversion from diesel to battery-buses - charging points, extra space to park the buses while charging etc.. Or perhaps some of your readers know where this information is available on the internet.

[@MrJstorm4]

I think when people say that servicing trolley wires is too expensive it's usually a grift because usually on a small Network a serious overhaul can be in a high $100,000 of dollars or low millions of dollars what's the sticker price on a single battery electric bus like 7 or 800 Grand and sometimes they do have to still spend almost as much money building charging infrastructure because of the peaky nature of the quick charging. One example is willington in Australia tore down were they trolley poles, trashed less than 10 year old trolley buses, had to pay a couple million Australian dollars for charging infrastructure, and had to purchase new diesel buses to run on these routes because this whole project was supposed to take a couple years. Right now we're kind of back in the 50s where trolley buses are old and busted so regardless of whether their replacement is technically better in the circumstance they have to be replaced

[@HolarMusic]

Adam Something has a pretty good video on the cost comparison side of things

[@MrMarinus18]

Also with the push of electric vehicles in general maybe trolley wires could be used by cars and trucks as well.

[@MrMarinus18]

When it comes to transport cost efficiency isn't everything. We also should keep the enviroment in mind and I think a developed nation that wants to be proud of it's cities should be willing to invest money into it. Of course you should try to save money when you can but sometimes with public project you just have to say "so be it" when seeing the high cost. The United States is a great nation and it should be considered an insult to suggest it couldn't afford a trolley system.

[@CosmicSeeker69]

They don't keep part of the revenue for repairs ,- bc they're syphoning off the money through supplier contracts ....$$$$

[@TheGreatPOD]

OK I'm lazy and I'm not gonna read through 300 comments to see if anybody else posted about this. As someone who uses transit in San Francisco, there's one important point you didn't mention about trolley buses specifically in San Francisco the number one line on Muni. There are a couple of points on that route that are very steep and I'd be willing to put money on the fact that a fully loaded diesel bus stopping on the incline at the top of the hill would not have enough torque to get itself up over the hill where as the electric bus just pounds right through it without any problem. Trolley buses definitely have a place in the transit infrastructure of a city, the fact that they don't make as much noise and don't spew out toxic fumes is a big plus in my book. Great video as always keep up the great work, thank you sir.

[@Jeff-uj8xi]

You are correct. Same situation with the steep grades in Seattle. The trolley coaches glide up them. Can start from a dead stop in the middle of the block !! It was demonstrated for me.

[@rykmat2542]

@@Jeff-uj8xi And downhill is the same situation. Diesels burn brake pads but trolley bus make power which is returned to the network or burned in resistors without any wear and tear.

[@68404]

Most medium to large towns in the former Soviet Union have trolley buses. Indeed, the longest trolley bus route in the world is in Crimea, running from Simferopol to Yalta (about 90km). And yes, I have been on it 🙂

[@marsgal42]

Trolleys have always been a no-brainer here in B.C.: zero-emission vehicles that plug in to hydro dams. What more do people want?

[@Ponchoed]

Well unfortunately some think they can have all that with BEBs and therefore can trash the trolley system.

[@speedbird1598]

Electricity that doesn't drive salmon, Resident Killer Whales, and commercial fisheries to extinction lol

[@jasonreed7522]

@@speedbird1598 fishladders are mandatory and can be made in such a way that they don't enter still water. Hydro is still the only clean source capable of baseload power. (Only 4 can do it, Coal, Gas, Nuclear, and Hydro) If you want solar or wind to do it you better get a hell of a lot of storage going ehich is either pumped hydro, electrolyzed hydrogen, or batteries that aren't lithium. Rule #1 of energy policy is litterally everything sucks so by diversifying sources you can mitigate how much the over sucks by spreading it around. (For instance you could dam every other river so half of them flow free for salmon to spawn in.)

[@RMTransit]

Yep, lots of clean and inexpensive power!

[@speedbird1598]

@@jasonreed7522 Fish ladders have an absurdly high mortality rate, and do nothing to address the effects of altering water flows on fish. They heat up rivers, and change their conditions so that they are not useful for spawning habitat. Damming "every other river" is a terrible solution in a world where fish are not a limitless resource.

[@itsCatte]

There are surprisingly many trolley bus routes in my home town in Shanghai. I am so glad the city decided to keep them! The cables are surprising had to find because the streets here are lined with trees and shops unlike american stroads

[@stevebolandca]

Hi Reece, Steve Boland here from Muni. I do a lot of work on trolleybuses and off-wire operations, and while you're right, trolleys are good, just a note of caution: re-poling after off-wire operation is not quite as simple as you've made it seem, and thus designing a trolley system with lots of gaps can present challenges. Re-poling is a pretty delicate operation with a relatively high failure rate (10-20%, depending on mechanical issues, operator skill levels, etc.) and can result in significant delay if the operator has to manually re-pole. The pans themselves are also quite fragile and require regular replacement. So it's no panacea, although it is a tool we've come to use more and more frequently as it allows you to reroute trolleys without having to add (relatively) expensive infrastructure.

[@stevebolandca]

Also, finding a suitable re-poling location can be a challenge -- the existing wires have to be in just the right position, and you do have to take into account that the operator may have to manually re-pole at that location, meaning you really shouldn't do it in traffic if it can be avoided. Anyway -- you're not wrong that newer trolleybuses' capability for off-wire operations does provide flexibility that didn't used to exist, it's just not a simple matter.

[@stevebolandca]

Oh, one last thing. Off-wire operation wears out batteries, so you’ve got to account for battery replacement as a capital cost, and dead batteries can require tows.

[@Ponchoed]

@@stevebolandca I'm little confused about where Muni does off-wire operation and doesnt. Still running off-wire through Union Square to Caltrain despite Central Subway construction mostly complete and also the 30's extension to Crissy Field. Why not on the 49 to Fisherman's Wharf allowing Van Ness to use trolleys again (I know some route changes in a month will make this a mute point)?

[@jamesparson]

QQ: Isn't part of the 22 line regularly off-wire?

[@Ponchoed]

@@jamesparson A little bit on 16th Street where it crosses the Caltrain tracks at-grade although there is very new wire for the 22 by the Chase Center and in Mission Bay.

[@alexanderboulton2123]

Love seeing RM being such a Canadian and saying "I'm soory"

[@knarf_on_a_bike]

🇨🇦

[@Jay-jq6bl]

Fyi, that stereotype can get really old really fast. So much so, I stopped telling people where I'm from.

[@jamesparker2608]

My brother has said and I can't argue against it, Canadians seem to be a better class of people, bettr than Americans anyway, maybe due to some american culture and some british culture,

[@jamesparker2608]

@@Feroce I am an American that thinks Canadians seem to be nicer, maybe even better than Americans. I live in Massachussetts, ever hear of 'Massholes"?

[@Vitally_Trivial]

Oh! Very important addition, the cobalt in the batteries of vehicles, laptops, mobile phones, etc., is completely recyclable. The cobalt used in making petrol or diesel is not recyclable, and largely ignored by people criticising its use in EVs.

[@samarth2491]

4 hours

[@anthonywalsh2164]

Recyclable child labour!

[@squelchedotter]

I think this is a lot more legitimate of an argument when comparing EVs to Petrol cars, not EVs to Trolleybusses, which don't have any of those issues.

[@AlRoderick]

the cobalt used in diesel refining is a catalyst, most of it gets recovered and reused. But of course however much you lose you have to keep losing because you need more diesel fuel forever.

[@MatthewBoonstra]

You gotta love how EV critics hyperfocus on the GHG emissions from mining rare earth minerals, the feasibility of recycling their components or other things like wind turbine blades, etc. But then when it's pointed out that fossile fuels are far worse for the environment, and we can improve mining, recycling, etc., they wave their hands and dismiss "Oil and gas drives our economy, you can't stop progress just to help the environment >:(" Single use plastics are hard and expensive, if not impossible to recycle? Oh well, they're used for a lot of things so we need to accept them. Don't get me wrong, it *is* important to improve the ethical and environmental performance of EVs, renewable energy, etc. But I'll never understand why they think this stuff has to be perfect before we should adopt it, even while supporting practices that are far worse as it is.

[@maslelviz]

one more thing that deserves mentioning is the longevity of the vehicles. I live in Lithuania (there are two trolley bus systems in two major cities), where we can still see a few Škoda TR14 and TR15, that were made back in 1980s. They are still using the same engines, which is insane, compared to diesel buses...

[@rwrynerson]

In 1976 or 77, Edmonton Transit's anti-trolley coach equipment manager of the time accidentally gave me a spreadsheet breakdown of maintenance costs by type of bus. The 1950's GM "Old Looks" maintenance cost TEN TIMES AS MUCH per mile as the 1946-54 Canadian Brills. And modifications for the small number of poorly-designed, newer Flyer trolley coaches were being charged to maintenance rather than being part of their capital cost.

[@markdebruyn1212]

The Dutch city of Arnhem used to have a tram/streetcar system but during WWII the only depot got destroyed with nearly all rollingstock in it, so the city decided to replace it with a trolleybus network, wich is still running today with 6 routes since 1949

[@josephinepura525]

Same thing happened in Manila in 1945. Sadly they never replaced it, so people seized the opportunity and converted US Army Jeeps into commuter jeepneys. That is what we still use today, although we now have above-grade light rail since 1984.

[@RMTransit]

An Arnhem isn’t a giant city! It’s impressive

[@markdebruyn1212]

@@RMTransit I use route 3 to go to my favorite dutch zoo from the central station, wich is at the northern terminus of this trolleybus route

[@daanwilmer]

I remember going to Arnhem once just for the trolley buses! It was a long time ago, though, and I don't remember a thing, so maybe I should visit again, lol.

[@rudolflevente6760]

Budapest has a great Trolleybus system. It also uses high-end Solaris Trollino buses and Locally made Ikarus trolleybuses.

[@B2BWide]

Don't forget that certain lines like the 83 go on long sections without overhead wires at all, served by Solaris Trollinoes. Back in the days I travelled a lot along that route, sometimes by buses and sometimes by trolleys. And the latter is way more agile and suitable for city traffic because the short distance between stops. Many locals still hate trolleys because their past experience with the ancient ZIU units, now decommissioned but the new buses are great!

[@vulduv]

4:00 alternatively, you can use supercapacitors. Which for their size, weight and cost, can deliver and receive *much* more power than batteries can. They are also generally more enviromentally friendly to produce and waste less energy during charging and discharging when compared to a battery. For the application of just running a heavy buss for a little while, where power is the limiting factor and not energy density. Then either supercapacitors or a mix of supercapacitors and a much smaller battery would be close to ideal. Shanghai is an example of a city that has been using supercapacitor buses for many years now.

[@mr.cookedfish9978]

In my home city, Bologna we have had auto rewiring trolleys since 2006!

[@RMTransit]

Yep! They’ve been around for quite some time

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

“Bad Boston, bad” - New Yorkers, probably And man, I know the downtown Seattle transit tunnel was supposed to be for light rail, but it was a really unique operation when the light rail shared it with the dual-mode trolley buses. Not to mention it solved the congestion problem by putting the buses underground. The tunnel just isn't the same

[@MrBirdnose]

Yeah, although by the time the light rail was in there they weren't running trolley buses anymore, just hybrid diesels. The problem was the trolly bus wires were incompatible with the light rail catenary.

[@oleogabalo]

In Mexico City they are building a new elevated dedicated trolleybus viaduct. It is a totally segregated line. Is very promising. It is scheduled to be completed this year 2022.

[@illiiilli24601]

The problem with having fully grade separated bus infrastructure is, once you're spending that much time and effort, you might as well build more trains

[@stevenedwards3754]

During the era that streetcars were being ripped out everywhere, San Francisco replaced some of its famous cable car lines with diesel buses. But fully loaded, the buses couldn't climb the hills. I remember that on the Sacramento St. line, rush hour passengers coming from the financial district had to get off and walk up the last two blocks of Nob Hill and re-board the waiting empty bus at the top. Diesel buses on that and other lines were later replaced with trolleybuses that can climb hills and do it quietly. San Francisco has the largest trolleybus fleet in the U.S. and it like the streetcar/metro system, is entirely powered by hydro that the city owns. For hill-climbing though, the famous cable cars, which are part of the Muni network, are still unbeatable. For locals with electronic passes, they cost the same to ride as the rest or the system. Not everybody riding a San Francisco cable car is a tourist.

[@felixtheswiss]

I travel with HESS double articulated Trolleybus in Bern quite often. They rewire regularly at stops, its a quite primitive system with sheet metal funnels, it works quite fast.

[@icefahrer]

Solingen in Germany already has a good trolleybus network and is currently replacing its diesel buses with battery trolleybuses (called BOB in Germany). There are Solaris Trollino 12 or 18 meters (articulated bus) long.

[@eladalfassa]

In motion charging makes scheduling electric vehicles much easier!

[@RMTransit]

Absolutely yes

[@Myrtone]

@@RMTransit It also allows power demand to be more evenly distributed over each day of use. And it avoids the need for rapid charging, basically treating batteries like fuel tanks. Another city that recently took out trolleybus infrastructure is New Zealand's capital, Wellington, this was in 2017. Dynamically charged buses, using trolleybus wiring to charge, were brought into Prague. Wellington's trolleybus abandonment was particularly significant because it was the last trolleybus system anywhere in Australiasia or Oceania and the last trolleybus system in the world to operate on public roads in left-hand traffic.

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

I mean, Boston is as American as apple pie, it’s where the revolution began. And like a lot of places in America, they don’t care about good transit infrastructure so of course, it perfectly represents the country as a whole. And that’s the problem. For every step forward, they take two steps back

[@jakecrev5729]

..Kim?

[@FD-vj6hd]

Apple pie is not American

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

@@FD-vj6hd It's just an expression since it's still part of their culture, Captain Obvious

[@Trollebas1]

нельзя брать пример с Москвы

[@pittsboy2008]

The city of São Paulo currently operates 23 trolleybus lines in addition to metro and train lines, the network started operations in the late 1940s.

[@Netzuke01]

I can say in Mexico City, trolleybuses operates as you said thanks to new models with batteries: charging in the central area and ending their route with the battery only. Before the new units, the system was slow and many times operators had to reconect manually. I hope the batery and trolley system extends to our BRT, some of the units are already battery-powered.

[@RenzeKoper]

As someone coming from Arnhem, absolutely love trolleybusses. Think they're a great option. We even have upgraded busses with batteries so they can more efficiently branch out the lines at the ends without having to build overhead wires everywhere

[@Blaqjaqshellaq]

This is what I love about your channel! You're still learning and open to reconsidering things... Toronto had some trolley buses thirty years ago (along Bay and Dupont-Annette, I think), but the TTC got rid of them. And that's a pity!

[@aaronwelther3536]

I can't wait to see a video about Salzburg or at least seeing it pop up in a future video! There are 12 trolleylines and one of them is partly without wire, though it is not because of the reasons you mentioned (there are some pretty complicated wired intersections in Salzburg, they've never been a problem). When expanding line 5 to a neighbouring town (Grödig), the town coudn't afford to build the wires, so the first trolleybus with large batteries were bought instead. Now they're planning more routes without wires.

[@knarf_on_a_bike]

When I was a kid, they still had trolleys in Kitchener-Waterloo and Halifax, both places I spent some time in. They were pretty cool. Inability to detour around collisions was one of the reasons given for their replacement by diesel. With lithium-ion batteries, that limitation is dealt with. I'd love to see a trolley comeback in North America.

[@KRYMauL]

Wouldn’t giving the buses a dedicated lane that is always green just be easier?

[@RMTransit]

Having both gives you the benefits of both!

[@openlink9958]

@@KRYMauL dont underestimate how expensive building infrastructure on the US can be... (especially when government funds it)

[@KRYMauL]

@@openlink9958 Then they should stop gate keeping ie Strongtowns

[@marcelomarcos3568]

Old trolleybuses had batteries to run some blocks to detour... if they were or not mantained that was another issue.

[@Abisanth11]

Here in Switzerland we have 12 (soon 13) trolleybus systems. All of them (with the exception of Schaffhausen) are planing to or have already expanded their network using in motion charging. Cities like Zurich, Bern, Lausanne or St.Gallen also have bi-articulated trolleys. Plus trolleybuses generally do better in the snow as they have two driven axles. Edit: Oops, I should’ve finished watching the video before commenting 😅

[@MrGollum27]

which one will be the 13th? guy from Winterthur here

[@Abisanth11]

@@MrGollum27 Return of La Chaux-de-Fonds (lines 301, 302 and 304) from 2023 or 2024

[@qwincyq6412]

As a kid I loved riding on the trolley buses in Ottawa. So quiet was the purr of the electric motor compared to the roar and shaking of the diesel buses. A relative at the TTC once told me that they could refurbish newer trolley buses with the motors etc from the old chassis because the electric motors lasted so long. So recycling and reusing was a thing even in the ‘50s.

[@urbanfile3861]

Milan has a pretty extensive trolley network. Its main line is not that secondary, though. Infact it is a circular line which sorrounds the city centre. It numbers 90/91 (anticlockwise and clockwise). Despite being 'just' a trolleybus it carries more than 100k passengers per day (both directions), infact it is famously overcrowded. It almost comletely runs on segregated bus lanes, that's because it was meant to be a tram line! Back in the '70s there was the project to build a circular line partially using a ring road central parterre. They wanted to create a stadtbahn like line, with high floor platforms. Unfortunately they gave up the initial project (due to political and budget reasons, mainly) and 'downgraded' it to a trolley line, which is the one we still have nowadays.

[@ettorem7449]

It is really admirable the way you openly addressed some inaccuracies in your previous video about trolleys, it takes great intellectual honesty to do that. About the topic itself, I didn't know about LFP batteries, it's great that we are starting to have a new chemistry that doesn't rely on actual slavery for its extraction.

[@Fognrailz]

A lot of people say Trolley buses are not flexible. Of course, this depends on what city you’re in. In San Francisco, this isn’t true, our trolley buses still climb hills off-wire (albeit a little more slowly), meaning we don’t have to dieselize. For example, on the 24 Divisadero line, Castro and Noe streets (some of our steepest hills at 22% and 18-20%) had to be off-wire for a year straight and they’re were no issues. We ran them up and down and they managed just fine!

[@JosephWheels]

From Edmonton, Canada. I drove the trolley buses for about 20 years, sad when the city dismantled the system. I gravitated towards trolley routes because the other drivers didn't like them. As a bonus I got better hours and weekends off. The biggest downfall was that Edmonton Transit management didn't like them and did little to make the system work.

[@rwrynerson]

There were management employees who favored trolley coach lines, which also was the adopted City of Edmonton policy. There were others opposed. Because they couldn't openly say that, they favored quiet subversion. As Marketing Officer in 1980-84 I reviewed a study that proposed to kill the planned expansions to West Edmonton Mall and Northgate and met with Acting GM Geoff Atkins, a pavement engineer. I showed him the logic fallacies that "supported" dieselization. The study had been done by a traffic engineer. Geoff said "So?" I started working on my resume. Soon after, service planning was removed from Edmonton Transit. Service planning had also favored trolley coach operation. When it came time for the details of the authorized purchase of 100 BBC trolley coaches, our last GM, E.V. Miller, opposed design features that had proven popular with customers and operators, saying "the kind of people who ride the trolley lines wouldn't appreciate them." Then those features were ordered on the last batch of GMC New Look Diesels. This sort of craziness -- subverting city policies and covertly opposing the customers' interests -- led to years of decline in per capita ridership. Edmonton wasn't the only place with question marks. The retired head of scheduling for Denver Tramway told me that he was warned not to question the 1955 shutdown of their system, which had trolley coaches that would not have been ready for replacement until the mid-1960's. Rose City Transit Co. shut down their last trolley coach lines in 1958 with no warning and not enough buses to cover all the runs. A general manager of the Dayton system in that era claimed that GM supplied prostitutes at transit industry conventions to influence purchasing.

[@namenamename390]

I just remembered something I've never seen before. I was in Zurich a few weeks ago and while I knew that they have trams (at an uncommon gague of exactly 1m), I didn't know until I was there that they also have trolleybuses. Walking to the central station on Löwenstrasse, I noticed that both trams and trolleybuses used the street, and when looking up you could actually see separate catenaries for trams and trolley wires for the buses, which was very interesting.

[@madcrowmaxwell]

Interesting. The only place I've ever seen streetcars and trolleybuses sharing the street is San Francisco where they share the same overhead. (The streetcars use one of the wires while the trolleybuses use both)

[@bahnspotterEU]

Metre-gauge isn‘t really that uncommon. In Switzerland it‘s even the norm for tram systems. I think Bern also has a section where trolleybuses and trams share the street.

[@counterfit5]

@@bahnspotterEU one of Switzerland's mountain trains just switched to meter gauge as well, since it had been the only line using something weird, possibly 800mm. Going to 1m opened up far more options for rolling stock

[@RMTransit]

Yep they have both! It’s less uncommon than you might think!

[@the_retag]

1m gauge is actually quite common in europe, especially Switzerland

[@Srananbloke]

I love trolleybuses. I was born, raised and still live in Arnhem, the only city left in the Netherlands / Benelux countries with a trolleybus system. So I don’t know better than having the option to travel by trolleybus, and I love it. Much better travel comfort than a normal bus. Over the past 3 decades, the Arnhem system really improved with articulated (Swiss) buses, new lines, much more dedicated bus lanes and ‘straightening’ certain routes to make them faster, adding much more of a tram vibe to those routes. In the near future, the network will be expanded by operating certain routes with hybrid trolleybuses with a battery, making them able to operate much further without the need for more wires. I think Arnhem - Wageningen is the first route that will get this hybrid service. Wherever I go in the world, if I happen to visit a place with a trolleybus system, I have to spend some time on that system. For example: I spent last weekend in Zürich, where the trolleybus system is more focused on connecting outer areas of the city, rather than coming together in the city centre like a lot of the tram lines. After dinner, I was planning to do a long hike, but bad weather pretty much forced me to take a tour around the city using all of the Zürich transit modes. I started by trolleybus and ended with the trolleybus, with a lot of trams and trains in between. And the trolleybus system (and the whole Zürich system in general) there really impressed me. The speed, the frequency (ah well, Switzerland) and the flawless connections to tram and S-bahn lines. And the same kind of HESS trolleybuses that we have in Arnhem. The kind of system I love the most, especially combined with those frequent tram and S-bahn lines over there. Just bought some 9-euro tickets to travel in Germany this summer. The plan is to visit some of the German trolley cities, including Solingen, which is not far from here. I’ve been there many times before, but I really like their trolleybus system, it includes a connection to the Schwebebahn in Wuppertal. Too bad Toronto closed its network in the ‘90s. I will be visiting Toronto in October. Would have loved to travel by trolley over there. Fortunately, the streetcars are still alive and kicking :) Great video and analysis!

[@acenutella1196]

Hey Im from dayton! The trolley's are very cool. Its exciting to hear about LFP batteries I didn't even know that was a thing. Apperantly "the Dayton trolley bus system is the current manifestation of an electric transit service that has been operated continuously in Dayton since 1888".

[@wolfythewolf4457]

In philly, We have I think three? trolleybus routes (59, 66, 75). There are four former trolleybus routes, two of which (79, 29) that ran on electric buses for like 5 seconds, but they took them off the route entirely because the batteries were so heavy that they broke the chassis. Haha.

[@Jeff-uj8xi]

And the fools at SEPTA have those battery buses hidden away out of sight in a garage for over a year. I don't know who's worse, Boston or Philly.

[@wolfythewolf4457]

@@Jeff-uj8xi Well that's 'cause they're broken, lol. I would say Philly has the one up, just because we still have our trackless trolleys.

[@Jeff-uj8xi]

@@wolfythewolf4457 The jerks at SEPTA couldn't wait to get the wire cutters out in South Philly. They sat up nights thinking of ways to abandon trackless trolleys on the 29 and 79. They thought the battery buses solved their problem. So now, refusing to admit their stupidity, the junk battery buses that were a total failure are hidden away out of sight and SEPTA hopes out of mind. But these high paid SEPTA managers continue to collect their pay checks. They should be fired and go to prison for deliberate destruction of valuable public property. And why should SEPTA care that diesel fuel is now $ 8.00 a gallon !! The money isn't coming out of their pockets. The sucker taxpayers are paying for it.

[@stephendanielnz]

We use to have trolley buses here in Wellington New Zealand until a few years ago. It was decided to pull the system out as it was getting expensive to maintain the wires.

[@watobato]

5:34 -> Theres a few in SF, however if your looking for an example, you'll find one on the corner of Shrader and Haight. (Ashbury District) The bus line is the 33.

[@stevenedwards3754]

More than a few. San Francisco has by far the largest trolleybus network in the U.S.

[@rhodrage]

It's amazing that technology that was considered obsolete 100 years ago is coming back into fashion as a source of eco friendly vehicle. Wild. When I was growing up in Britain, Trolley buses were a thing of Museums.

[@doorhanger9317]

Trolleybuses were not considered obsolete 100 years ago, in fact they were just about the height of transport technology. Their proponents supposed they would be so much cheaper to operate that tramways would become a thing of the past. Of course it didn't turn out that way, but we in Britain later killed our trams anyway, typically replacing them with new diesel buses. The trolleybuses weren't really attacked in earnest until the early 60s, slightly later than the trams, though they were considered old fashioned compared to new "efficient" diesel buses already just after WW2.

[@rhodrage]

@@doorhanger9317 You're right. It was 50 years ago. In fact the last british trolley bus ran in my home town on the 26th march 1972. Don't know why I said 100 cause 50 is still a lot.

[@doorhanger9317]

@@rhodrage maybe the 70s feels like a hundred years ago, sometimes, lol

[@marcelomarcos3568]

@@rhodrage uh? Last network was Bradford and ran until 1972...

[@rhodrage]

@@marcelomarcos3568 I honestly thought that's what I typed until you said that

[@JonMartinYXD]

What a mistake it was for Edmonton to tear down our trolley wires. You briefly touched on a huge advantage of trolley buses: noise, or the lack thereof. I grew up in a neighbourhood of Edmonton that had a trolley route. There was never that "BRRRRRmmmmm" of a diesel engine accelerating from every stop. I remember a school friend who lived in an area not served by trolley buses. One day we were going from somewhere to my house, and we were along the route that went to my neighbourhood so we caught that bus. It was his first time on a trolley bus and he was stunned by how quiet it was. We didn't have far to go but the whole ride he kept commenting on the lack of noise. That must have been not long before they retired the trolley buses. Trolleys at night when there was frost on the wires though - that was a light show.

[@Tommybouchard2007]

i heard edmonton got rid of them because they have been spending all that money expanding the capital line lrt and adding new lrv's at the time and the city didn't have have the money to modernize the trolley bus network that's way they voted to permanently shut it down and add more diesel engine buses to replace them and the remaining gm new look buses im pretty sure they regretted doing that even today because the battery electric buses wasn't working as well as the city wanted them to and the hydrogen electric buses is having issues staying running during Alberta's nasty winter weather

[@JonMartinYXD]

@@Tommybouchard2007 It had nothing to do with LRT money. It was a political agenda by some councillors and staff. They had been suckered into the belief of "clean diesel" and overestimated the cost of new electric buses. It was a protracted fight and during that time the trolley infrastructure was denied maintenance which gave the anti-trolley side an argument about lack of reliability. And of course the pro-oil right-wing provincial government didn't want to fund _any_ public transit. They also hate funding anything in Edmonton because Edmontonians have the temerity to sometimes elect non-right-wing politicians.

[@uncinarynin]

Salzburg has Austria's largest trolleybus system and recently got Hess trolleybuses with batteries allowing them to extend one of their lines without having to install wires everywhere.

[@marcusoppong1024]

Bassed on what I've seen from the new generation of trolley buses (especially the Hess buses) in this video, it sounds fantastic! I've been to Salzburg twice (2015 & 2017) and when I used and looked at the really long trolley buses squeezing through the tight parts of the city, I couldn't stop but think that the system looks incredibly slow and prone to delays. Also, the wiring nightmare nearby the central station gave me a really bad image of trolley buses. So Reece is resonating quite well with me because I looked at an example which was bad in my opinion and now my opinion has changed with knowing which state of technology we have.

[@ambe5179]

Hello, from Lyon! The trolleybus is a highly interoperable means of efficiently equipping cities. In Europe, some cities in France are equipped with it. Lyon is one of the only cities, along with Limoges and Saint-Etienne, to keep its trolleybus network. The other cities abolished it in the 1970s in favor of a policy centered on the individual car and diesel buses. Trolleybuses have also conquered the cities of Switzerland, the Netherlands and Austria. These cities also have battery-powered trolleybuses (here called IMC). These networks even use bi-articulated trolleybuses, these models reach 24 meters in length and can carry more passengers. Ideal for lines with heavy traffic.

[@NealCMH]

I am glad that you mentioned Dayton. They have had trolleybuses for years. I can remember them when my family visited there when I was young (over 60 years ago). I always called them "hanging buses".

[@Jeff-uj8xi]

I have a 1947 Pullman-Standard trolley coach from Dayton in my historic vehicle collection. It's in the City Transit Company yellow and cream color scheme.

[@pleaseinsertacoin]

Very glad you made this, thanks for correcting course! Trolleys are great, they’re proven technology, they make neighborhoods feel so much cleaner and quieter, and modern EV batteries solve the last few problems trolleys might’ve had in some cities. We need way more of them.

[@elieb]

In Nantes, France, there is a weird variant of the Hess bus you mentioned. It’s powered by a small battery charged a few times along its journey with a retractable pole arm plugging into a receptacle above certain stops. It spends 30 seconds charging while passagers are boarding and runs continuously on a entirely dedicated corridor. This is another approach to efficient battery powered buses. This is a weird sight for sure, when the giant bi-articulated vehicle springs out it’s charging arm!

[@Jojo.R.Chipelago]

I'm in Bratislava on an Eastern European trip from the UK. This is the first time I've seen a trolley bus. The implementation seems quite effective. Trams and Trolley buses use the same infrastructure, switching and overtaking looks very seemless, etc. I'm no expert, but it doesn't seem like the public here are worried about breakdowns and de-wiring.

[@edgebartholomew6094]

Keep Trackless Trolleys Rolling Because We're Love it

[@pelpikx]

I am from city where the trolleybus is primary transit, an I love them, it is great to get anywhere you want especially new ones with level boarding are so quiet and comfortable

[@jamesparson]

The BRT lane on Van Ness in San Francisco will be used primarily by trolley buses. I wonder the last major new infrastructure in North American for trolley buses.

[@Ponchoed]

Apparently in a month Van Ness BRT will switch to trolleys (the 28 is taking over its temporary extension to FIsherman's Wharf). I think it might be the last although some mentioned Mexico City building an elevated trolley bus BRT line. Seattle's Madison BRT was supposed to be trolley bus but they couldnt find a manufacturer for the custom buses since Madison BRT has a terrible overcomplicated design.

[@hjhkgjfawdferyyurv1222]

Trolley buses are a great way of transit, it's clean and doesnt pollute as much as diesel buses, which is very important because global warming is a big thing now, and it can share wires (sometimes) with trams.

[@ryanatkinson2978]

I moved to SF from ATL last year, and I don’t think I had ever considered trolleybuses before I saw them. Well... of course I knew they were possible, but I figured there was some good reason for it. I love grid connected transit! The less batteries in demand, the better

[@SaturnCanuck]

I remember as a kid in the 1970s, Toronto had Trolly Buses running on Bay Street. I have fond memories of that.

[@Ztbmrc1]

Here in the Netherlands we have trolleybuses in the city of Arnhem, in the east, not far from the German border. And Innsbruck in Austria used to have trolleybuses, but were taken out of service some 20 years ago. Innsbruck has a tram network though.

[@Spino2Earth]

Tallinn in Estonia have trolley buses too! But my city, Stavanger had in the past :(

[@mattp1337]

I always loved Vancouver's trolley buses in the 23 years I lived there (1988-2011). Yes, even when they sometimes disconnected. It was a pretty trivial inconvenience from a rider perspective. I haven't seen actual numbers, but it seems like crews ironed out most of the trouble spots over the years.

[@DwainRichardson]

This video made me smile. I’m glad to see that trolleybuses still have their relevance in 2022. I sure hope that jurisdictions considering the electrification of their buses will consider throwing trolleybuses in the mix. As far as I’m concerned, the benefits of trolleybuses outweigh the disadvantages (e.g., they cost too much). I dream of the day when trolleybuses make a comeback across Canada. I think some cities, such as Sherbrooke, Quebec, can benefit from trolleybuses because of their hilly terrains. But cities such as Edmonton, Toronto, and Montreal should bring trolleys back, too. Great video, Reece. Thanks for sharing it with us. (-:

[@oilerfan1983]

I'd like to see Calgary's Route 3 becoming a trolleybus route again--the city's highest frequency route.

[@Ponchoed]

Might want to do a video on Mexico City, amazing spectrum of transit (metro, BRT, commuter rail, trolley bus, aerial gondola, standard diesel bus) and just saw that they are actively building a completely elevated busway for trolley buses... wow!

[@primoroy]

Very old technology! 1985 in Mexico City was the first (and last) time I saw trolly busses EVERYWHERE. Your post stopped me on my tracks. So happy it's still around.

[@bryan92252]

When I first lived around electric trolley busses I was impressed more by the reduction in sound pollution than by anything else. I've come to love electric busses!

[@rossbleakney3575]

Seattle, like Vancouver, has a lot of trolley buses, for much the same reason: lots of cheap electricity. As mentioned, Seattle is also quite hilly, and the trolleybuses can go up the hills much faster than a diesel bus. To be fair, the newer hybrid diesel/electric perform reasonably well. But back in the day you could really feel the difference between a trolley and a regular bus going up the hill. Seattle has owned trolley-electric buses that can go off-wire for quite some time now. In my opinion, they don't take full advantage of them. To be fair, I'm sure many of the issues Steve Boland mentioned below apply. Getting back on-wire is not trivial. There is also a cost in terms of wear-and-tear on the batteries. Still, I think there are changes that can be made that would improve the system, but I feel like the folks in charge are too conservative -- or aren't being creative enough. The biggest example is when a route needs a small extension. Sometimes it isn't the extra service or finding a new layover spot that prevents the move, but the cost of moving wire. This would be a great place to run without wire, as the delay caused by the extension would only be felt by folks that benefit from it. At most you could add a small section for the layover area. That way a bus would charge up while waiting, and the time spent connecting there wouldn't be felt by any riders.

[@xavierjunod5967]

Random pic of my swiss hometown at 11:00 🥰 and yes Hess trolleys are awesome! I wish we had them in Vancouver

[@WerewolfLord]

They'd be perfect for the B-Line, excuse me, RapidBus routes.

[@bluebear6570]

After quite a few BEV busses went up in flames for no apparent reason, the good old trolley bus is more than a viable option!

[@jur4x]

Good old trolleybuses also went up in flames quite a lot of times. Luckily, in my hometown such an event happend only once. But it was brand new machine.

[@Nicolassantosbranco]

I love trolleybuses, here in são Paulo we have a Pretty extensive trolley network that works very well, the operation is much more smooth and silent than regular diesel vehicles. For paulistains here at the video my favorite line is 4113-10

[@55centralparkwest]

I feel that trolleybuses are perfect for small/mid size European towns and cities. Wiring the higher frequency corridors and routes then IMC for the lesser frequency routes that leave the town. Batteries will have their uses but the questions still unanswered of how everything can be battery concerns me. It would make sense to leave the batteries for places where anything else seems over the top. It’s not as if the equipment becomes redundant if battery technology and associated faults advances. In my town the simple trolley system we had until 68 is all that is still required. It covered the most frequent corridors and main roads. Cheers

[@alexnefi]

Salzburg in Austria has one of the largest trolleybus networks in Western Europe and they've recently used HESS buses with batteries and in-motion charging to extend a line beyond the city limits and beyond the network of wires. It only has to travel a few kilometers each way with a small battery before re-attaching to the network of overhead wires.

[@steve3131]

I rode the trolleybus from Boston's Logan airport in 2017- the SIlver Line, which connected directly to the Red Line subway. Much of the line was underground- I can't imagine anyone thinking tearing out the electric infrastructure is a good idea. I also heard that trolleybuses are popular in the former Soviet Union because they perform better in extreme cold.

[@danubianfederation2080]

If you'd like to get an idea of a nice European trolleybus system, then Budapest's is worth checking out.

[@user-df3ty8ei2u]

Gdynia in Poland too

[@davidty2006]

Eastern Europe apparently had tons built in the soviet era. Soviets really liked their trolley busses.

[@mbstarburstmapper3842]

The largest systems are in Minsk and Saint Petersburg.

[@RMTransit]

Yep! Budapest is one of many really nice systems!

[@RealConstructor]

@@mbstarburstmapper3842 At this moment not an option for a visit. Maybe in the future, but I doubt it.

[@Brick-Life]

A lot of cities in China kept the historical trolley bus networks and have new busses. The Guangzhou Yutong trolley bus looks very funny with a pointed nose and 2 huge side mirrors

[@alainterieur4837]

Trolleybuses sure are great! That's why they're used all over Switzerland! Even small towns have them. Like my hometown of Neuchâtel has only 30k inhabitants, and yet it still has 3 trolleybus lines. These buses are made by a Swiss company, Hess. You can even find double articulated trolleybuses in some cities!

[@pbilk]

Thanks for revisiting the topic. 🙂 My question is about rubber tires are still not superior to rail but for the trade off for slightly cheaper transit installation, are trolley busses with batteries still worth it?

[@davidty2006]

Trolley busses with batteries makes them bi mode. Meaning they are more flexible in the case of roadworks. And having that issue dealt with is always a good thing.

[@MultiCappie]

The Edmonton trolley debate was one of the first places I saw paid oil-trolls online. Just deflect, deny, fear, uncertainty, doubt, concern, on a non-stop carousel. One thing debunked was simply "forgotten" on the next turn of the carousel.

[@dontmindme8709]

This is probably the best presentation of trolley buses as an alternative to other transport systems, purely because of the good balance. I've heard others rave about the benefits of the system, but often by dismissing everything else as simply worse in all regards. I'm a fan now

[@phatmeow7764]

if these had their own dedicated lanes they could be outstanding as a public transportation solution!

[@catnipleaf8680]

San Francisco has several lines that can’t be served by anything BUT trolleybuses, particularly ones with grades that would make you start sweating bullets. The steepest of these grades can exceed 20%! A diesel bus and possibly even a battery bus would struggle to climb these grades, especially when carrying a full load of passengers who just wanna get to work or get their groceries in a timely fashion. A trolleybus, however, can climb these grades with little issue, by virtue of not having to generate all of its power onboard the vehicle

[@Ponchoed]

Is that still the case though with modern day buses? There was sewer work on those famed steep streets in the Castro a few years ago that resulted in diesel bus substitution of the 24 for many months. It certainly was the case many decades ago (when the 1 and 24 were electrified for this reason) with legendary stories of passengers getting off the diesel bus, walking up the hill while the bus drove empty up the hill and then reboarding at the top. This was always the saving grace for retaining trolley buses in SF. I'm just wondering if this is still the case now?

[@misha.michael]

According to wikipedia the steepest grade on the muni bus system is actually on a diesel route, so I'm not sure the steep slope argument is as relevant today.

[@IamTheHolypumpkin]

The local express with IMC Trolleybusses is really clever. If you provide all day express service you could operate each vehicle as express one way and local the other. Split the fleet on the line in half and both sides get all day express and local.

[@samuelitooooo]

I think it's clever too and already see where this can be applied in my city. One thing to consider though is that this means buses have to have the same frequency, local *and* express, as service splits are defined by how buses in one individual direction cycle back around, rather than how many more people prefer express over local, or vice versa.

[@dionmcelrathjr1712]

I don't know if you know this but the Greater Dayton RTA actually pioneered in motion charging for dual mode battery electric trolleybuses. It's given Dayton the ability to extend trolleybus routes much further by running off the battery. You should look into it.

[@tonywalters7298]

unfortunately, they have "indefinitely discontinued" some of the trolleybus routes, like route 5 that ran on ohio 48.

[@Razorgeist]

I take one to work every day here in Philly different route but same make as the one at 4:52. I wasn't aware they were this useful as transit.

[@uingaeoc3905]

I remember these in use in Merseyside, 60 years ago, St Helens and Birkenhead used Double Deckers , Liverpool used Trams with their own central Reservations in the suburbs after leaving the town centre.

[@dantepastro8465]

Development of the latest rewiring systems while the trolley is travelling coupled with small battery packs would completely eliminate the nest of wires at intersections and single lane roads could have only one pair of overhead cables for both going and coming lanes. Four years ago a German company already made and tested this system but I don't know the outcome.

[@JamesPhieffer]

I remember visiting family in Hamilton as a kid, and thinking the trolley buses they had looked pretty neat. Especially as they were using the same GM bus bodies as Belleville Transit did in my hometown, but those were diesel powered. They are a very good idea.

[@Jeff-uj8xi]

And the idiots in Hamilton scrapped that great trolley coach system. I wonder if they regret it now, with the price of diesel fuel. By the way, I filmed the entire Hamilton trolley coach system on color movies. Those were the days before video.

[@luisfer9361]

can't believe you barely even talked about Mexico City trolleybus system which might as well be one of the world's largest and most complex systems. They even have a fully grade separated trolleybus line about to open

[@GH98HJ]

Minsk has the largest trolleybus system, most likely Mexico City has 360 trolleys with 9 million population Minsk has 700+ trolleys with 2 million population Stats by wiki

[@lesalmin]

Thanks!

[@RMTransit]

Thank you!

[@Brot-o-Typ]

Growing up in a Swiss city with trolley buses, I've only realized lately that they are not that common outside of Switzerland. They are simply great and flexible solutions if a tram is not suitable for urban areas. I am excited for the upcoming videos about transport in Switzerland. I would suggest to think about including also political and societal backdrop in them, as this is quite unique there. And also the nodal system of the integrated clock face scheduling.

[@robfriedrich2822]

Winterthur or Zurich?

[@gabrielmendoza9727]

In Mexico City we're getting big with trolleys, though the government is doing this weird elevated brt in Iztapalapa and soon in Chalco (metro area ). In the case of metrobus though I think they should use trolleybuses instead of diesel or electric buses (like in line 3, they are spacious but they don't seem to have ac or great windows, not great in cdmx's spring). We also have the line in Eje central which has improved and now is reliable, its separarted from traffic and accepts the Tarjeta de movilidad that also works in buses (some, the legal new ones haha) metro, cablebus, metrobus, ecobici and so. Future seems great for trolleybuses in Mexico City :D

[@mbstarburstmapper3842]

Moscow had the largest trolleybus system in the world, until it closed in 2020 to be substituted by electric busses (only one line was kept). Currently, the largest system is in Saint Petersburg, Russia, with 46 routes and 493 km of network length (558 km if trackless sections are counted). The second largest system is in Minsk, with 62 routes, 492 km network length. The longest single trolleybus line located in Crimea, running for 95 km between Simferopol and Yalta.

[@iskrenninov4298]

Public transportation in my city of 100 k population in Bulgaria has been running on trolleybuses only in the past 5 years and it is a full success with 20 operating lines. Trolleybuses came to the city in 1985 and the system has been replacing buses everywhere until no buses remained

[@frglee]

Growing up in the UK in the 60s, we still had double-decker trolleybuses to ride on in some cities - in my case, in Nottingham, Reading, Bournemouth, Maidstone and in London. I loved them because of the acceleration and smooth and quiet running, although they all seemed to rattle a bit. I'd even eschew a normal bus if there was a trolleybus behind it on the same route. Ugly overhead wiring, especially at junctions was often given as a reason here for removing systems when they became life expired. All our trolleybus systems are now sadly gone, and even a recent plan to build a modern system in Leeds could not get government funding.

[@2Brothersid]

The T has wanted to get rid of the trolleybuses from time immemorial. The only reason they haven't decades ago is the because of the need to keep diesel emissions under control in the Harvard bus terminal. The arrival of electric buses, even if very immature, and the replacement of the formally robust FMCB (T oversight board) with a docile board has given management the cover they need to finally do the deed.

[@ak5659]

Yes, trolley bus & tram service always seemed to have the lowest priority when I lived there. I remember when the end section of the Arborway line was taken out of service for ' renovation '. The T swore it'd be back better than ever. Every body I knew said it was gone forever. That was in the 80's. Last I heard it still wasn't back.

[@Wpdhsx]

The Broadway corridor does NOT have trolley buses at the moment due to the underground subway expansion. Plus, we do NOT use the express wires in Vancouver. You cannot pass other trolley buses without either of you pulling your poles and letting the bus pass. They cause delays when there’s issues with the overhead. Trolleys are usually slower than diesels because of the switches and special works. They’re not that convenient and plus driving them could be a nightmare!!

[@marcelomarcos3568]

All that is nonsense, trolleybuses can be fast if overhead line is well mantained.

[@stephenrichards8370]

I've been a trolleybus fan for years. A lot of places in the UK had them but sadly phased them out in the 60's. But I'm wondering whether they are really needed. now. I live in London, and my local bus route is a frequent 24-hour service operated entirely by double-deck all-elecric (i.e. not hybrid) battery buses. If one charge is enough to power the bus back and forth through Central London for the whole day, haven't trolleybus wires become redundamt?

[@samuelitooooo]

I think it comes down to scheduling, how much batteries you want, and what kind of streets those buses operate on. If your streets are flat and low-speed and there are parking spaces available for the bus to stop and charge at the end of each route or on major stops where it consistently takes a while for passengers to get on and off, then battery buses with quick charging might be okay and you may not need trolleys. Otherwise, there are advantages to being connected to an electricity source while in motion, including not putting stress on batteries where operations are most demanding, such as up hills and on highways, as well as reducing wear-and-tear on the roads and likely even the cost of each bus.

[@marcelomarcos3568]

But one charge is enough to power the bus all day? I don´t think so.

[@stephenrichards8370]

@@marcelomarcos3568 To be honest, I don't know. The bus garage is quite near me, so I might see if I can get someone to answer. But it seems terribly wasteful to have to schedule buses to go in to the garage in the middle of the day to recharge.

[@egorro]

Lublin (small city in Poland) Has GREAT implementation of trolley buses. It is do smooth and nice. And trolley buses are in more than a half of the city

[@ARSZLB]

I remember my very first time riding on or even seeing a trolley bus, I was visiting Boston and in order to get to South Station to catch my two dollar bus ride back to New York City, part of my journey included transferring to what the MBTA refers to as the Silver Line, which is just a schedule of trolley buses that drive and operate as normal diesel electric hybrids until entering the bus tunnel to go underground to the South Station stop, upon entering which the driver switches the engine off and raises the pantograph, as there are overhead electric lines to supply the buses power all throughout the tunnel. At the time it was one of the coolest experiences I ever had that was transit related and I’ll always remember my first time realizing that these things even existed!

[@fraserfuite8816]

This Edmontonian misses our trolleybusses :(

[@MrDigitalman78]

I'm a Toronto resident that miss our trolleybus system as well so quiet on the road

[@rwrynerson]

@@MrDigitalman78 Torontonians shared something with Edmonton. The executive who finally succeeded in ridding Edmonton of its trolley coaches came from doing the same thing in Toronto.

[@christophernoble6810]

I’m a great advocate of trolleybuses. Remember them in London many years ago. Should have kept them. Much cheaper to set up a trolleybuses system than a tramway system with less disruption. Salzburg is a good example in Europe, as they run on clean hydro power.

[@marcelomarcos3568]

But trolleybuses have not the same transport capacity than trams. Because of that, there are lines for trams and lines for trolleybuses, like in San Francisco, Lyon, Rome, Milan...

[@rackethunter467]

@@marcelomarcos3568 In my hometown, trams and trolleybuses (biarticulated) have roughly the same capacity (around 200).

[@daytontrolleybuses9075]

You can see all the videos of Daytons Trolleybuses on my channel! They are the future and they are amazing.