Roasting Halo With Favyn - The Infinite Show 7

The Infinite Show, Episode 6.
Laper Larden: / laperlarden
Favyn: / @favyntube
We spoke to Favyn
Join the Discord: / discord
Support me on Patreon: / shreddednerd
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:15 Favyn's name
1:25 Forerunner program
6:24 Working in the games industry
9:22 Halo's design
30:14 Call of Duty and modern games
34:13 Skill based matchmaking
48:25 Halo mods
51:00 KZbin
1:05:34 What would bring you back?
#Halo #HaloMCC #Infiniteshow

[@tomfoolery5844]

Real Halo critique and analysis is few far between these days. Been watching Favyn’s videos for the better part of a decade now. Great podcast.

[@Rokiriko]

Just think about this, 343 lied two times about the local co-op, but somehow the redditors still defend them and are "optimistic".

[@lesbianduck7862]

The reddits a true shit show, moderated by 343 fanboys by the looks of things

[@LaperLarden]

Shame Ghost couldn't have made it. I guess you could say he... Ghosted us.

[@userRDSM]

No, just no.

[@Nikkerman]

I had a friend the other day who hadn't gotten on infinite for 10 months because of forge customs not being there, and the first custom game we get into it's classic settings guardian FFA snipers and he asks "Where's the sprint" and asks me "can we play the next one with sprint" before I even realized it wasn't there. It took me a while to realize but I think the reason they kept in sprint was just because it's easier to have it in and let people take it out than the other way around. IMO I can much more take it or leave it because while it is bad, it's something you can take out and the game is fine, but it can make traversal fun sometimes. Honestly I think Favyn is out of luck with the next game because 343's biggest takeaway is going to be to release something similar that's content complete not that their formula is still not complete.

[@ChairmanKam]

1:08:30 I would come back if they retconned the last 3 games and fixed canon.

[@vaniellys]

Me too. I hate Frank O'Connor shitty fanfic, I want the original lore of Forerunners being ancient Humanity.

[@ChairmanKam]

@@vaniellys Someone deserves a cookie I think.

[@_Bungus]

@@vaniellys Honestly same. I don't hate Halo 4 like most do, but the idea of the Forerunners being ancient humans not only makes so much more sense, it was way cooler.

[@hjgrmeme]

A gentelmen's discussion on games.

[@8instantramen]

I fully agree with Favyn's thoughts on infinite's design.

[@caramelldansen2204]

Have you considered having C3 Sabertooth on? His video on Frank O'Connor's *_CRIMES_* is enlightening. I just thought this since you mentioned _him_ at the end. You're asking what has to change to get Halo to be worth playing again, but I think that's a rather mechanistic way of looking at art. Bungie didn't necessarily make Halo good because they had a good vision for what makes games fun; that's just the solid foundation on which the game is built. Game design, from my experience, is a holistic process and not just a checklist of things we like. Bungie primarily succeeded because of their passion and their position as gamers. 343i, and many others, fail because they're a soulless entity whose entire existence is to extract as much profit as possible while spending as little money and effort as possible. Even if someone at Microsoft knows how to make a good Halo game, the spirit of its creation in an abstract sense, the environment in which it's created, and the intentions of why it's being created, are the determining factors. These three aspects seep into the game like water into soil and can either create fertile land for a piece of art to bloom from (in Bungie's case), or salt the earth and leave it barren and lifeless (in 343i's case). The binary choice between art and profit is the deciding factor from which these aspects are born; when the workers are in charge, the sacrifices that out-of-touch business andies make never happen, and from there the potential for greatness is found. Sorry for the rant, but it had to be said.

[@Lb8068]

This is a really great comment if people take the time to read it. Nothing to add, sorry about that, just think this deserves a signal boost!

[@gtrblackhawk]

C-3video should be a mandatory watch before any Halo fan comments on anything. I was 90% on board with what he was saying before hand but the whole Frank O’Conner break down explains the entire issue with the 343 era of games. He single handed led them down the path we are in now. Granted I still place blame on Bonnie Ross because she was at the helm of the ship but he’s just as much to blame. I’ve said it many times to say to move forward is to completely retcon everything from 343i. Plain and simple. Those that like what they did you can keep playing this trash but Halo needs to go back to the basics

[@caramelldansen2204]

@@Lb8068 Thanks, friend! :)

[@caramelldansen2204]

@@gtrblackhawk I believe you're absolutely right; the current state of things is functionally unsalvageable, and a return to form in both mechanical _(no sprint, no ADS, no armour abilities, etc, bringing back the old Halo mechanics)_ and spiritual _(making Halo for Halo's sake, not profits)_ aspects is long overdue. Not to mention the lore; even if you could make an argument for preferring the lore of 343i's era, it's not even internally consistent, and contradicts / retcons itself constantly. The story's in tatters, and the gameplay that made Halo famous is too far gone to fix; we need to hit the reset button, and pretend this all didn't happen.

[@gtrblackhawk]

@@caramelldansen2204 10000% friend! The only “good” story telling in the past decade was the kilo 5 story line which 343i Retconed as well like you said.

[@ZER-sc3pc]

Favyn says a lot of people at 343 started out with Forge. Is Action Sack composed primarily of maps and modes that were built by people who now work at 343?

[@GoldLBS]

I like infinite but sprint is just dumb in halo and the fact 343 keeps reiterating it is insane. Valorant and overwatch prove its not needed especially when maps are made with intent.

[@Creatic58]

I like it

[@robbiejelsomeno5679]

Running faster with your knife is mechanically the same thing as sprint. Sacrifice combat readiness for movement boost.

[@Gamerteamguy]

@@robbiejelsomeno5679 not really. It’s barely faster and only really used in rollout.

[@robbiejelsomeno5679]

@@Gamerteamguy Is it a speed boost? Does it come at the cost of having your weapon ready?

[@ananon5771]

@@robbiejelsomeno5679 the knife gives you a boost in all directions and tends to be only for rollouts as the other commenter said.

[@mateosanchezaquino3829]

It's impressive how they massacred Cortana's character. They turn her into an unstable program in Halo 4, make her return as a suddenly "evil overlord'' in 5 and finally end up killing her off screen in Infinite! One of the most well known characters in the franchise, and they just up and pulverise her. The Weapon is *never* gonna come close to her. Im afraid about what they're going to do with the Arbiter when they bring him back.

[@will_of_europa]

Even worse, she w as replaced by a jewish "the Weapon"

[@ananon5771]

counterpoint to AFPS being a dead end, tf2 has alot of the same mechanics as quake and remains very alive. (Boomer Shooters aswell). Also love you highlighting the importance of open tools, for doom, it has kept the community alive for so many years. also on boomers hating halo, its less with halo itself and more with every game becoming like halo, if halo was popular while afps/boomershooters remained also popular, the animosity would be non-existent.

[@selzars]

On the topic of skill-based matchmaking and possible alternatives, I feel like TF2 has one of the best forms of matchmaking whatever it may be. You still have the, honestly rare, match where you either dominate or get dominated, but the other 99% of the time it feels fairly balanced. Even joining community servers where players are put together randomly it feels balanced. I feel like if skill-based matchmaking was dropped completely for social/casual matches in favor of a solely region based matchmaking, people would see better queue times and match balancing due to the natural distribution of skill levels among players.

[@JoeM343]

The wacktage idea sounds hilarious, pls somebody make this happen.

[@saibot1246]

23:32 I won't say 3 is perfect the sandbox is really poorly balance if you use anything else than the br or power weapons you will die that's why I like rebalance mods

[@saibot1246]

@@EggEnjoyer It is a pickup only in regular slayer on MCC where i live nobody play regular it's only br slayer

[@mrROAR104]

One thing about arena shooters you're missing is there hasn't actually been a single good one that's been advertised well enough since before 343 got Halo. Not even given a chance to see if people would still play/enjoy them. People like BRs and those have similar health mechanics where nothing recharges and you need to find it. They absolutely still could be big, they just don't exist

[@vincegenuit222]

A third person arena multiplayer called Red Faction Guerrilla should interest you. We play weekly

[@KRawatXP2003]

YES. MY DOPAMINE LEVELS ARE HIGH!

[@TopMostFlavor]

They made this big forge mode and released it when the game was already deceased lol I almost feel bad for them, hard to not at least pity 343

[@unknownwill4th549]

🗿

[@vaniellys]

I hate mechanics that were added because they are "a standard" instead of fitting in a game. Sprint, slide, clamber and ADS have no place in Halo.

[@guilherme5094]

👍!

[@skraggity]

Gemerald

[@Dave_Chrome]

Is this the most recent Favyn appearance on youtube? I miss his videos

[@blackdragon5274]

Favyn name deeplore, let's go!

[@Zam432F]

Good podcast

[@mrROAR104]

Unfortunately favyn is wrong about SBMM. Even IF it gave you people at your skill level every game properly it would be shit. You'd never really improve, your games would always feel the same, you still couldn't play with friends of differing skill levels. Most people who don't want strict SBMM want it gone for reasons that aren't going 25-3 every match to have fun.

[@implyingishygddt9312]

Thanks

[@guilherme5094]

👍!

[@sadcatgang]

Halo 5 was the hidden goat of comp fps, people who dont understand will never understand

[@linusnottech]

I’m never drinking the kool aid, cultist

[@sadcatgang]

@@linusnottech I'll be at peace at the end of time with God himself, heathen

[@Chadhogan111]

Halo 4 should have been basically Halo 2 anniversary

[@MegaAwesomethings]

Have xgllx next

[@linusnottech]

No, he’s controlled opposition

[@Lb8068]

Think this is mislabelled as “episode 7” in the video title lad, shouldn’t it be episode 6? Unless there’s something I’m missing.

[@Swim_Jonse]

I find it funny that Favyn considers having lost re: sprint because in actuality, he won. 343i, for all the expected reasons, didn't have the balls to remove sprint entirely yet recognized the bulk of the playerbase didn't want it, resulting in a negligible implementation of it. That created another discussion, because they didn't want to look stupid by having a nearly pointless sprint, so let's get the slide in there as a justification, but sprint is ostensibly dead. Looking at a number of *very wise* people, "experts" on the subject they choose to ignore in their program, I'd take the way sprint exists as a definite win. Doesn't matter if it's just damage control. It's only shit design from inception. I'd love it if they went "yeah, we don't need this" but I don't know that's a possibility anymore from a developer.

[@vadamsvengeance3219]

Favyn was paid to test the game. only after release is he allowed to bash it.

[@4realm8rusirius]

Yo

[@ShreddedNerd]

Yo

[@gianlucag100g]

Yo

[@christinacarter2550]

Over🎁 🌼😄

[@bekutama]

Halo Infinite's gameplay is so close to being great, but what absolutely kills that game for me is how deeply entrenched in monetization it is. The battlepass is tedious, and you have to pay to get any of the good stuff, and the shop is too expensive and shouldn't even be a thing if they've got a premium battlepass already.

[@deriznohappehquite]

Arena shooters were never as popular as Halo. They sold like 2 million copies. Halo sells like 3-5x as much.

[@ShatteringBlade]

"I see Miyazaki's face and still get excited" 😂😂 same dude. MC is still cool, but it's harder to care about the progressing story of Halo after 3 mediocre games

[@gagecoutch3284]

Favyn was right the whole time. Sprint destroyed Halo, the entire hard to master aspect of halo was that you could always do something shoot melee or grenade. Shoving in sprint is the haha get out of jail free card that breaks the game.

[@Chadhogan111]

The problem was kids who started with Reach, or at least it was their main game. They didn't know any better, defended the awful game ruining mechanics, and became a higher proportion of the player base due to survivorship bias.

[@realperson5575]

>oh my microsoft new halo

[@veedeejoe8440]

It's starting to look really bad with Microsoft putting a hiring freeze on 343 and laying off 25% of their staff recently. The future does not look bright for this game.

[@gianlucag100g]

R.i.p Halo Infinite uwu

[@bb8328]

Like your content and was excited for this, but you talk over people way too much man. Doesn't make for good discussion.

[@tuckersbaby]

Infinite’s campaign was the definition of mediocrity and the second worst campaign to date.