Richard Wolff & Michael Hudson: Karl Marx and the Fall of the West

[@robinsonerhardt]

This episode came on the heels of a traumatic, eight-interview sprint in NYC. As you’ll see, this one was particularly chaotic, but the stars aligned to make it happen. Camera switches, bathroom breaks, health concerns, equipment malfunctions, and even a robbery didn’t prevent the conversation from coming together. With this in mind, I hope you’ll forgive how crazy and inconsistent the video is; the fact that it even got put together is courtesy of my friend and editor Yu Guo (a philosopher who got his PhD from NYU with past guest Paul Boghossian). Given that there’s some new intro music, and you’re already getting an abundance of distracting production nuggets, I decided to show the soup being made. My thanks go to Richard, who met with me twice in three days (not to mention his wife, who allowed it), and Michael, who put up with me for over four hours. 

- Robinson P.S. Toward the end of the episode Michael eats a jerky stick from Maui Nui Venison, which is a company operating out of Hawaii that manages the invasive deer population of Maui that is decimating the landscape. Instead of culling the animals and disposing of their bodies, the meat is butchered and sold. It is the only meat I eat, full-stop, and the ethical reasons are sufficient for this, but it is also the best meat that I have ever had. I reached out to Maui Nui and told them that I support what they are doing and would like to be of any help that I can. They gave me this coupon code-ROBINSON-which you can use for 15% off. I am not being paid for this in any way. I believe in what they are doing and I want this model to succeed. People are going to be eating meat for the foreseeable future and I would be happier if it was not factory-farmed meat. So please check Maui Nui out and give them a try!

[@annaweiers2947]

Thankyou so much for this, I stopped meat to impact the planet, not to be righteous, (I’m a farmer) we are overrun with deer too, (no wolves) Factory farming is lethal to planet. The deer would be healthier to eat🇨🇦. I believe in the power of one and I’m not a sheep, great piece!

[@annaweiers2947]

This is an amazing episode Robinson, you knocked out out of the park buddy❤🇨🇦

[@patriciacvener1968]

I love that the interview is. outdoors in lovely weather. It was fascinating to hear these gentlemen's stories and educational nuggets.

[@daviddobarganes9115]

...robbery?!?

[@robinsonerhardt]

@@patriciacvener1968 :)

[@treyquattro]

two of the giants of non-classical economics in one place. What a treat! And God knows we need one. Thanks, Michael, Richard, and Robinson.

[@robinsonerhardt]

My pleasure.

[@samaval9920]

Actually, Michael Hudson always says that Karl Marx was the last (paleo)!classical economist, vs. neo classical economics,

[@pecan11]

Actually it’s CLASSICAL ECONOMICS

[@treyquattro]

@@pecan11 I should have said non-neo but tried to save on typing: didn't work.

[@44bett]

AGREE

[@bevhofmann2728]

What an interesting compilation of the education and memories of these two gentlemen. I am 80 years old and truly value the information that can be shared. So much is lost when the world loses people of this stature.

[@robinsonerhardt]

:)

[@Bazilhatz3773]

So true Bev.

[@stephenhemingway9435]

I share your appreciation, Bev. I'm 70 and ask myself who the torch will be passed to in future generations. When I went to university in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, I was able to take courses in Marxian analysis and economic history from Marxists. All of that is gone now, when I look at the economics program from McMaster University all I see is neoclassical orthodoxy.

[@nash984954]

Have you been dismayed referencing a TV ad or funny event or joke, but without anyone,usually not about same age, but no one in the group ever knowing a pointed reference. Same type of 'huh?' response instead of a laugh over dialogue in current sitcom, they don't know the shows.

[@up-ls7dv]

9😮😊pmolm😅😅ook😊 3:11:18 @@stephenhemingway9435

[@galadrielnerwenartanis1432]

This is what is missing in our society today, wisdom and lived experience being imparted from the seasoned to the new generation in a talking circle. This made my heart smile!

[@usedscar]

Yes!

[@robinsonerhardt]

Great.

[@patricialongo5870]

Contextualizing and revision of history is leftist, darkness is the way you live if you don't want to be ostracized in the USA. Some lucky people can afford knowing. Most could never.

[@lukeasacher]

I'm 64. My great uncle was Herbert Biberman, ringleader of the Hollywood 10. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqSVhHeKe718na8 My adoptive grandfather was Harry Sacher- legal counsel for Gus Hall and the cpusa at the 1949 Smith Act trials. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacher_v._United_States They were both paid agents of the Comintern. And guilty as hell. My uncle Morris Philipson was Chair of the U Chicago Press for 32 years. He ran Pantheon Books with Andre Schiffrin. I went to Fieldston and Reed College with Andre's daughter Anya- who is a Prof at Columbia SIPA and married to Joseph Stiglitz. So I know what's really what when it comes to Amerrican Leftism. Marx sucks. It just sucks. It's idiotic and murderous. Stay away from it. Read Mises and Rothbard and Hayek and Friedman. Socialism is tyranny and mass murder. Every. Single. Time.

[@kuwapa]

Totally!!

[@xemy1010]

3 minutes in and I'm already hooked. Hudson + Wolff conversations are always interesting and I believe this is the first time I've seen them together in person. Really appreciate the work that goes into setting up these interviews.

[@FrankReynolds-y1y]

Wolff in sheep's clothing. He would put you into the gulag in the blink of an eye

[@robinsonerhardt]

Awesome. I'm so glad.

[@kakarooku]

@@FrankReynolds-y1yno but we might put you there if you don’t chill

[@lharris4371]

Socialism is like a letter in the alphabet. It sure helps you read and you notice when it isn't there.

[@artykohl1118]

When I saw this post, it was like a gift to my ears and mind.

[@tompham637]

Greetings from Vietnam 🇻🇳. Thank you Prof.Wolff and Mr.Hudson for sharing this interesting information and conversation.

[@KenHubbard-jz1vq]

HERE I AM IN VIETNAM 🍁🇻🇳 RETIRED UNION ORGANISER ,AND ASSISTANT SECRETARY HEAD OF THE MINING INDUSTRY IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA. AND RETIRED HERE BECAUSE ITS VERY EASY TO LIVE WITH THE POLITICS HERE AND THE VIETNAMESE PEOPLE ARE JUST ABSOLUTELY LOVELY AND WELCOMING I WAS BORN IN CANADA THAT THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM HAS ABSOLUTELY RUINED THE COUNTRY BUT THATS ANOTHER SAD STORY

[@averayugen7802]

@@KenHubbard-jz1vq I corresponded with a little kid from your adopted country, and when Gaza started I switched to Save the Children and dropped the correspondence with the little kid in Vietman. Its breaking my heart that fate made me so poor I couldn't do both donation projects. It got me dreaming of moving to Vietnam myself. I heard a scholar the other day explaining that the VICTIMS of torture are usually more humane and understanding than the perps. EVER ended up becoming. Then my heart broke some more. Crying now! Blessed YOU!!

[@KenHubbard-jz1vq]

@@averayugen7802 ABSOLUTELY NO POINT IN CRYING AND BEING SAD ,MOSTLY PEOPLE HERE ARE BETTER OFF THAN THAN THE AVERAGE CANADIAN AND CANADIANS ARE BETTER OFF THAN AMERICANS , COUNT YOUR YOUR BLESSINGS WE ARE SO FORTUNATE TO COME FROM SUCH WEALTHY COUNTRIES ,WE HAVE EVERYTHING EXCEPT WE NOT FREE , HERE WE ARE ,YOU DONT NEED MUCH TO LIVE HERE EVEN A SMALL PENSION OF 2000 ,$ A MONTH WILL PROVIDE A REALLY GOOD STANDARD OF LIVING , LET ME KNOW IF YOUR INTERESTED I'LL HELP YOU MOVE

[@KenHubbard-jz1vq]

@@averayugen7802 ILL ASSIST YOU IF YOU WANT TO MOVE OUT OF THE UN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WITH IMMIGRATION, FINDING AN APARTMENT,MEDICAL ETC I'VE BEEN HERE 9 YEARS NO MONEY NESESSARY JUST LET ME KNOW

[@KenHubbard-jz1vq]

@@averayugen7802 YES I UNDERSTAND BST YOU GET OUT OF AMERICA , IT'S TO DIFFICULT JUST TO SEVIVE

[@DylanGeick]

These chats are such a privilege. Thanks for sharing as always.

[@robinsonerhardt]

My pleasure.

[@coolioso808]

Love seeing these intellectual chats. Would enjoy hearing a good, long chat about real and developing organizations and methods of system change beyond capitalism. What about the ideas of Library Socialism promoted by the Srsly Wrong boys? Seems like a really good way to start in any community. What about supporting worker co-op developments like One Small Town or Cooperation Jackson or Evergreen Cooperatives?

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

@@robinsonerhardt Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

@@coolioso808 Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@sarasumayya3839]

We in India were taught capitalism , communism ,Marxism et al in school. It’s unfathomable that a “liberal” nation like The USA did not! It was an enlightening conversation. Thank you

[@nunyabidness_5515]

It is done on purpose

[@matthewkopp2391]

This indoctrination has destroyed USA liberalism. Because it has destroyed the very idea that communities can and ought to take economic matters in their own hands and build public commons. This idea was very much what built up the USA. The destruction of Marxism meant the destruction of liberalism.

[@TheInternetFan]

Depends on schools' curriculum. in Italy too, no real teaching of Marxism.

[@globalcetzen5271]

@@TheInternetFanit’s not about curriculum it’s about the programming systems set up in said countries to regulate the population.

[@ccie4101]

@@sarasumayya3839 Here in the Good Ole US of A it’s the job of radical left university professors to indoctrinate the virtues of Marxism, Maoism, Castroism, Leninism and Communism

[@raymooney-k4t]

I left school at about 15 1/2 years, without learning one single useful piece of knowledge. I was an avid reader of UK MSM for the next 40 years. Then wham I switched off the TV and never bought another newspaper and bingo my education started in earnest. I am not sure for how much longer voices of clarity will be aired on KZbin etc but I feel very fortunate to have heard truly gifted intellectuals share their knowledge for FREE . A genius makes the complex sound straightforward, a conman the other way around. A million thanks to Michael and Richard’s parents for bringing them into this world , also keep going Robinson with this imported work .

[@postyoda]

Yeah, Milton Friedman said there's no free lunch in free market capitalism; it's hilarious as it's all free lunch for the rentier class and those who have privileged access to credit, inherit land and productive means.

[@Jamhael1]

No wonder even Adam Smith HATED the rentist class...

[@standinginthegap7118]

Great point

[@Nemesisnxt]

This will probably get deleted, but I’ll try anyway. I have a solution: Live on less than you earn, invest the difference in mutual funds. I know that sounds insane, but millions of blue collar workers do it every day and they make something of themselves rather than bitching about classes. Crazy, I know.

[@postyoda]

@@Nemesisnxt yeah that's why the gini coefficient has been growing all over the world, right?

[@Jamhael1]

@@Nemesisnxt workers are already denied access to consuming thanks to the exploitation of the billionaires, and you STILL BLAME THE POOR FOR THEIR POVERTY? No wonder the rich wins - you are HELPING THEM by spreading nonsense!

[@anasjalil79]

Listening from Kuala Lumpur. I consider Hudson and Wolf as my teacher since more than 10yrs ago.

[@ACitizen1984]

I really love that you're three guys in a park talking about politics, random people walking by and all. Society should look more like this

[@mehdimehdikhani5899]

congrats for bringing these two together. This will be a valuable treasure on internet for sure. I hope you can organize debates and bring two opposing scholars to your show and moderate it.

[@robinsonerhardt]

All things in time!

[@cola3173]

@@robinsonerhardtmore Marxist economists please! maybe Anwar Shaikh can get on one of these episodes?

[@7kurisu]

Vijay Prashad please!

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

​@@robinsonerhardt ​ How could money ever be debt? The word "debt" is the same category of words as "faith" or as " hope" or as "suffering" i.e. it is an abstraction that has no material quantification. Therefore, any reasoning based on "money as debt" is a fallacy of reasoning. All attempts for reasoning about money must be made on the basis that Money is Wealth owned, because Wealth is real and measurable but fluid, where as "hope", "debt" and "faith" are just abstractions without any base in the real world.

[@jeffesteve1854]

This is better than going to university. I listen to this 3 times . So insightful and fulfilling.Thank you .

[@gaspode4185]

Robin, just on a human to human level, this conversation between Richard and Michael is beautiful. Thank you for putting it together.

[@BlowsAgainsttheEmpire]

Now this is a great & noteworthy talk, thanks Robinson.👍

[@robinsonerhardt]

Thank you!

[@JohnE-c2k]

My two favorite guests!

[@robinsonerhardt]

:)

[@TylerMcConnell]

These two have taught me more than everybody else on the internet put together. 🇺🇸🚩

[@michaelmckinley3975]

Just came off from book launch panel with Gabriel Rockhill, Radhika Desai, and John Bellamy Foster on Losurdo’s Western Marxism, to find this discussion. What an incredible Sunday. My favorite Marxist thinkers!! My head is spinning!

[@robinsonerhardt]

Hahaha that's great.

[@RoyMunson10]

I'll be listening to that podcast after this 😁

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@tarmotyyri6733]

🇫🇮♥learning from Richard & Michael. They are the giants of knowledge & wisdom.

[@conorknapp6764]

Words cannot describe my gratitude for making this interview happen. Two of the finest minds in modern economics together to discuss their ideas. This kind of conversation is invaluable. Thank you for all your hard work Robinson

[@robinsonerhardt]

Sure!

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@joaomartins7413]

Thank you very much, Mr. Robinson Erhardt for this excellent interview with Prof. Michael Hudson and Prof. Richard Wolff. Kind regards (Porto, Portugal)

[@robinsonerhardt]

You're welcome!

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@Bazilhatz3773]

I'm 62 years old but understand the core issues and seeing youngster's as yourself Robinson gives me hope for the planet and it's life. Thanks my friend for creating these extremely important and knowledgeable podcasts from your platform.👍❤️🌍🌎🌏

[@allisoncassidy1929]

YESSSS!

[@ramlozz8368]

This is pure Gold!! thank you highly needed in this time!!

[@robinsonerhardt]

:)

[@Wild-Rhino]

I'm enthralled by any conversation that makes the world make sense. Wolff has done that for me for a long time. Hudson has done that for me here. I need to learn more from this man. Again, thank you, Robinson, for amplifying their voices. In case anyone else is looking to understand the world better, a lecture series from The Great Courses (also on Amazon) that was absolutely enthralling is Middle Ages: Around the World by Joyce E. Salisbury, Ph.D. She talks about the middle ages from the perspective of trade. Everything fell into place for me connecting the end of the western Roman empire to essentially modernity also called the renaissance at around then of the 15th century. I would love it if Robinson interviewed Ms. Salisbury.

[@2001abassodyssey]

These two men are incredible. Richard Wolff, Michael Hudson - we love you! (along with Noam Chomsky - and thank you, Robinson Erhardt for being the Joe Rogan of incredible intellectual treasures, preserving massive swathes of their wisdom for the younger generations)

[@robinsonerhardt]

Hahahaha thanks!

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@profe3330]

How nice to see a wonderful and important conversation actually happening outdoors! I adore these guys anyhow, but there's something extra nice about today's venue.

[@stuartsmith5146]

Wonderful 👏🏼. Wonderful interview. Grand thanks for all who participated here.

[@robinsonerhardt]

:)

[@stuartsmith5146]

At the time of writing above I had only gotten a small portion into the interview. I was awestruck by what was already said and anticipated great things to follow. Sure enough, after days of trying to get bits more in throughout my day, rewinding to catch where I left off for context, discussing portions with others, relistening to sections, I made it to the end and am ready to sit down with a note pad to list reading references, general notes, and journal responses to the material. In my separate studies and teaching of somatic pedagogy, there is a visceral recognition that no one subject can be a silo regardless of the depth of focus upon it. In fact, to truly understand something it’s imperative to make it relatable to other experiences and learning systems.

[@simonbrusel812]

i really hope these two had many students because i feel these economists could save our world. very interesting conversation. keep up the brilliant work robinson

[@robinsonerhardt]

Thanks!

[@SpunkyMcGoo69]

They did thankfully, as many as they could have anyways. However, they have had astronomically more students and exposure thanks to the Internet. We are all their students

[@rsavage-r2v]

They're both prolific writers. I've personally read Michael's books Super Imperialism, ...And Forgive Them Their Debts, and am currently reading The Collapse of Antiquity. They're all very dense but they have totally changed the way I look at the world and I try to spread their ideas to everyone in my daily life.

[@japiro14]

​@rsavage-r2v which one would you recommend to be read first?? What's you field of work/studies btw?

[@deeznutz8320]

​@@japiro14Read America's protectionist takeoff from Michael Hudson Its by far his most important works and his most buried

[@m.c.5459]

Those mics sound great. I can’t hear the Van Wyck, or wind, at all. This is such a tremendously wonderful conversation. Thank you, all.

[@stephen_pfrimmer]

Thank you Robinson for letting us listen to Dr Hudson.

[@robinsonerhardt]

Sure!

[@mtn1793]

When are we going to get to hear Michael? Richard is monopolizing the conversation at 10 minutes in.

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@peterz53]

Just noticed you rocketed past 100K. Been watching since about 15K and it hasn't been that long. Greater things ahead, I'm sure. Excellent content.

[@robinsonerhardt]

Thanks so much, Peter!

[@CarlosRubina]

Thanks, great interview!

[@TheViktorofgilead]

I did not honestly think I would watch all of this in one sitting… but I totally did.

[@charleskesner1302]

I'm a fan of Professors Wolff and Hudson. Thanks.

[@geoffreynhill2833]

A very long discussion at an extraordinarily high level but well worth hanging in there. A must watch. 👍🤔 "Green Fire", geoff nelson hill, bookshops UK & US

[@geoffreynhill2833]

PS: Even BBC Radio 4 seems to have noticed the absurdity of Capitalism recently... ( Tactfully, of course....) 😉

[@konstantinherion3140]

Best Interview I heard in 2024. And I really listen a lot. Big DANKESCHÖN from good old Germany.

[@glintinggold]

[@usedscar]

So glad to see this! Wolff always cracks my brain open. So relavent. Thank you

[@robinsonerhardt]

Of course!

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@LaurieCoco-t8z]

LOVE HOW YOU ALL KEEP GROWING !!!!!!!!I AND YOUR EFFORTS TO PROMOTE UNDERSTANDING !!!!!!

[@LaurieCoco-t8z]

3 DELIGHTFUL HUMANS!

[@robinsonerhardt]

:)

[@missh1774]

Clearly there is public interest to learn or update critical thoughts about this subject. Thanks Robinson. I will be replaying this interview several times as I am sure other viewers have been doing.

[@Prehension7]

This episode is a feast of intellect and heart, and it’s not unlike a pot of hearty soup put together in some warm and old world idyllic country farm house. In the rather prosaic stage of cultural development, as portrayed in Goethe’s essay ‘Geistesepochen’, replete with gurus of all sorts, this episode is one of the very rare wholesome tellings of where we stand. Subscribed, and episode downloaded!

[@robinsonerhardt]

Amazing!

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@stijndhondt9611]

Wow I've only just seen you finally have >100k subscribers! Back when you were in the low 10k's I always wondered when you were going to hit the big numbers. You deserve it Robinson! Heartfelt congratulations.

[@robinsonerhardt]

Thank you so so so much!

[@DanielDirtyMoney]

I see Richard Wolff, I click, but this was a banger ❤

[@robinsonerhardt]

Banger indeed.

[@mitchletterman340]

These guys have such great talks, im so happy you allow them to talk in long form. I hang on to every word, please dont ever edit too much of the nuggets of information. It really makes these talks so special!

[@robinsonerhardt]

:)

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@pecan11]

Robinson U must keep these convos going. Ask Michael to bring his books one a time and discuss the book. THEY R GREAT!!!!❤❤❤

[@robinsonerhardt]

:)

[@Breakfast_of_Champions]

The Collapse of Antiquity is such a great and totally different introduction to ancient history. Has immunized me forever from all the usual imperial exhortations.

[@okaytoletgo]

Thank you Michael and Richard. And Mr. Erhardt for staying quite. Keep up the good quiet.

[@robinsonerhardt]

Will do.

[@philgwellington6036]

​@@robinsonerhardt Yes.. let the guest be .. The interviewer let's the magic happen.. thanks Rob

[@Buf-g6m]

What a treat on this rainy afternoon here in Pittsburgh, much appreciated😊 Best possible use of a public space too..and that deer jerkey sounds good , invasive species are everywhere courtesy of container ships..anyways Good job fellas.

[@robinsonerhardt]

Great fodder for a rainy afternoon.

[@Rubenflodgren-v6l]

This is so awesome my guy! I was jumping between different channels doing debates on economics and felt it was all too surface level. It's great to get a refresher and a perspective on economic theory that clarifies the lack in my own analysis of classical economics! Seriously awesome stuff! You get so much more out of this more conversational type structure and you do a really good job of guiding the conversation will still letting the old heads create the depth.

[@NoMastersNoMistress]

I'm still irritated to this day that I had to undertake a huge project of educating myself, at odds with my parents, many of my teachers, and my Gen X peers. I've watched the country get more anti-intellectual as the decades have worn on, to the point that talking to Gen Z is mostly a waste of time, whereas Millennials seem to so far be the most open generation. But to really have a serious discussion, for more than 25 years, I've had to turn to corrrepsonding with folks outside the US. It's shameful.

[@Pylypczak]

This is so true. Im 72 and it’s been that way a long time

[@Ponkan45]

Our society amd education system is more programming than teaching ability to think for yourself...

[@deeznutz8320]

GOD I AM SUCH A INSANE INTELLECTUAL ME SO SMARTY You ain't smarter than the zooomer who runs America first

[@ObWhan-p4i]

You know what is up more than anyone I've ever heard from your generation.... don't change my friend...I'm 47 and I'm amazed at the shallowness and uselessness of genz and friends... I like to imagine if I was broke down in the middle of nowhere just me and the only passenger in the car that could help would be some Genesee kid with his phone about to die I trade 20 of them for another one of me in that situation I can survive anything have survived everything been to 20 countries I'll make a new car out of a pile of broken cars and drive away eventually if I had to

[@feynmanschwingere_mc2270]

America is a dumb country

[@NavidKhan84]

I love how prof Wolff smiles and gets fascinated when he hears prof Hudson’s early stories

[@lyubabogan2280]

Outstanding interview from two legendary economists. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. 🙏🙏🙏

[@marc-1661]

Both these scholars have an incredible depth of wisdom that your video preserves and shares. It is also great to see them together .Thanks

[@JulioToruno-e3n]

I've connected with BOTH these men in a way that was only made possible by THIS channel! GRACIAS.

[@MarxistAnarchist]

Love seeing both together!!! ❤❤❤

[@robinsonerhardt]

Me too!

[@deeznutz8320]

Anarchist huh Oh shit we have a nonce in our midst😂

[@orthostice]

Simply not enough attention paid to this channel

[@robinsonerhardt]

We at this channel heartily agree.

[@hazelwray4184]

... on the channel? simply too little/not enough attention paid to this channel.

[@mariemills-ff8qy]

Very informative. Thank you for making this discussion happen. These are two exceptionally intelligent and wise men. I wish more people would listen to this.

[@laskatz3626]

Thanks!

[@robinsonerhardt]

Thanks!

[@timothykalamaros2954]

I'm enjoying Robinson's interviews quite a bit. And these two are always a treat. Hudson is a legend. And Wolff is starting to grow on me.

[@bigmangaming6307]

What an amazing interview, Michael's depth and ability to expand on virtually any subject with meaning is astonishing!

[@Gaiafreak6969]

Thank you for posting this, love these two

[@TimZM]

Loving this and only 20 minutes in!

[@robinsonerhardt]

:)

[@carrie5490]

It is bizarre to the rest of us that Marxism, communism and socialism are such feared words in the USA when most people can’t even define any of them, least of all have they ever read any of the literature

[@richardquimby7046]

I know all about Marxism and Maoist. It is a religion of evil and death. Take your woke, critical theory and shove it. Idiots.

[@Ma-Dee-Yo]

"You've expressed it perfectly."

[@herbertwest1419]

Yeah, they somehow think that all we want is Civil war, Gulags and totalitarian police state, i mean yeah - there would be some of that here and there, but for the most part it would be amazing.

[@deeznutz8320]

*100 million dead* *jewish people revilled in communism till Israel was attacked* Yeah i wonder why it has such a insane track record

[@deeznutz8320]

Read Hudsons America's protectionist takeoff

[@scod9746]

This is a rare treasure treat! Prof Wolff speaks the truth about economic theory taboos.

[@daveybeee2319]

excellent discussion. Good work hosting these 2 together.

[@Wild-Rhino]

I wish world leaders would listen to these guys. Thank you, Robinson, for letting these guys speak at length. 🙏

[@firexx-em4ov]

LOL, Communism is the product of hell, and tyranny and slavery are its true ultimate goals.

[@lydiagerson9802]

Thank you for this! I'm saving it for viewing again and again. Graduate education online for free!

[@NotoriousSRG]

Also, holy shit, way better intro. Absolutely badass

[@robinsonerhardt]

Thank you!

[@tuakanaholmes2710]

Thank you Robinson for bring these two gentlemen to the world. Finally their message will get out to the 99% . Now it’s up to the 99% to wake up

[@Marius_vanderLubbe]

A fantastic setting for a brilliant discussion. These two gentlemen are invaluable. Thank you.

[@robinsonerhardt]

Our pleasure.

[@maryebert4980]

I am a Noam Chomsky fan and also these men. I will not let your legacy die. Thank you for educating me. We will not forget you.

[@kyledrums]

A bit pedantic but a couple points. Hudson should have, imo, at least mentioned the Sino-Soviet split when talking about China's idea of Marxism being what took place in the USSR. This is a crucial factor of why the two differentiated from one another. Also, Hudson mentions how there isn't much of any "Marxism" in the current Chinese econ model, goes on to say with banking Marx showed optimism on how banking could "evolve" into socialism. Well, all of the banking in China is state owned/controlled which is a radically different power dynamic compared to, say, the US. The Chines are claiming to achieve "full socialism" by 2050. Typically when the Chinese state something, it's with full intent. Hudson could have given a little more credit to the Chinese govt as a whole, especially under Xi's tenure, vs. his personal experiences with them in specialized settings (China in 1979 is very different than China today). China is a lot of things with regards to it's economy. It's not binary. Many dynamics. Could say the same about the USSR as well when you really dig into the history. What Wolff says about "authoritarianism" is crucially important. The word has been weaponized by the State department/bourgeois media and even academia (*cough cough* Timothy Snyder *cough cough*) to purposefully conflate fascism and communism. There's been a whole industry created for this. Not only is it ideologically incorrect, it's lazy history at best as Wolff alluded to. It's been such effective propaganda even (western) "leftists" fall into the trap when discussion of other countries govts. arise, when they should be showing solidarity. Wolff is correct in asserting the capitalist class in the US is the most authoritarian of them all. Domenico Losurdo has clarifying work regarding the Wests accusations/use of "authoritarianism/ totalitarianism". Thanks for chatting with both professors and sharing. Hope it's enlightening for the audience.

[@feynmanschwingere_mc2270]

What a video! Brilliant. Two geniuses. Instant subscriber.

[@willblackett4709]

Brilliant !!! Respect from New Zealand

[@robinsonerhardt]

:)

[@ShomyKajge]

Wow what a lecture and interesting talk and what an epic setup on the open terrain. I love hearing Hudson And Richard on many shows but your interviews are amazing! Thank you!

[@jetstream3528]

These truth tellers are rare and they are such decent people. Thank you.

[@MaryBeth551]

Fantastic interview with Richard Wolff and Michael Hudson! Thanks!

[@robinsonerhardt]

Sure!

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@janetwalk4996]

Such a treat. So refreshing to listen to classically trained Marxist economists. Take a bow. I feast on this for days.

[@deeznutz8320]

Clasically trained great way of saying 'indoctrinated by Jewish theory that never worked' Read Hudsons book Americas protectionist takeoff especially the pages where his 'marxist' teachers burn all of his work on Erasmus Pishine Smith

[@laskatz3626]

This conversation is so damn interesting. I have to take a pause and let it settle in. Thank you for presenting it.

[@annaweiers2947]

Fascinating to hear these amazing contexts, inspiring! I respect these two so much for many reasons🇨🇦

[@robinsonerhardt]

:)

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@JS-rm2ws]

This is brilliant. Thank-you for the long form format and the quality of the guests and conversation

[@sortof3337]

I absolute despite the western marxists and imperial idea industry and their idea of ideal version of Marxism. Its almost puritanical and anti labor. But these two people introduced me to Marx and later on to losurdo and other revolutionary thinkers and economists, so I have huge respect for both wolf and hudson. Thank you Robinson for doing this, I religiously watch every one of the episodes you put out and have listened to every one of them. I love the push-back you do when hosts try to peddle bs without being aggressive. I hope you'll keep doing this and not go Lex Fridman route of fake love and kumbaya attitude while platforming Fascists and Liberals. This is my favorite leftists podcast now. 😊😊😊😊

[@FrankReynolds-y1y]

Liberals are true Marxists

[@gamerknown]

He’s not curating a leftist podcast, he’s had Niall Ferguson (of AEI and Keynes hated future generations) and Victor Hanson (of I warn my son of urban youth) on. Perhaps he’s getting influenced by left ideas but the other alternative is that left ideas are popular and so leftists will draw more ad revenue. Chomsky and Herman notwithstanding…

[@robinsonerhardt]

Thank you for watching!!!

[@deeznutz8320]

Platforming facists😂😂😂 God why are there so many fags in this comment section😂

[@timmcmaster6435]

fantastic! my two faves together thank you!! ❤

[@markbabson6997]

Thank you for making this conversation happen, and for making this knowledge available to the public. It makes me proud to be an American

[@robinsonerhardt]

Great!

[@reasonerenlightened2456]

Why then every "socialists" system tried or proposed, even the one Wolff proposes, wants the government to intervene by taking control over or/and consolidating Wealth in the hands of a government? The government already has the Power but they also want to control the Wealth ... which is what every "socialists" system seems to be proposing! Instead, how about my proposal of a government that only takes progressively Wealth from places of extreme concentration and then distributes it evenly among the human-citizens, again and again. That would be "socialism" but done correctly.. Nobody seems to want that, because everybody crave more Wealth and Power. Wolff is fake, Socialists are all fake. ....because they do not want to understand how to ensure optimal distribution of Power and Wealth among the citizens without the need of a "decision maker" to decide who gets what and how much of it.

[@claudetteleece8076]

What an amazing conversation the explanation on marxism and capitalism was priceless. Thank you for this delightful time with two of the smartest economists

[@alexb9597]

Robinson, if you can organize it I’d love to watch a sit down interview with Chris Hedges, between you two, would make a great conversation.

[@brlopwn]

Fantastic discussions, Robinson. Sorry to hear that this episode was so crazy to produce, but it came together well!

[@robinsonerhardt]

Thank you!

[@billappledorf]

Housing should be ,managed as a public utility. Finance capital has repurposed housing from structures in which people dwell to financial assets with which an enormous predatory apparatus extracts rents from the productive economy: banks, REITs, pension funds, mortgage market makers (central banks), mortgage traders, apartment building aggregators, small holders. "Investment" has been redefined from financing R&D, plant and equipment, and employing labour to create wealth to extracting wealth from the real economy and concentrating it in fewer and fewer hands. The entire housing "market" needs to be socialized and rent-seeking predators who exploit housing need to be replaced by publicly financed not-for-profit housing that rents for what it costs to build and maintain it. This will reduce the cost of living in addition to ending the sequestering of enormous quantities of capital in the hands of financial predators and the derivatives casino.

[@VLADDDD-TTHE-SANCTIONS-IMPALER]

Richard Wolffe is addictive He is so so addictive

[@chrisogonas]

Incredibly educative interviews! Thanks folks

[@Mihaela8440]

Whau, the whole thing is a chedeuvre , I have been looking for pfiff Wolff, since I heard him for the first time last year; amazing!!!; and don’t miss out Proff Hudson too, 1.56 onwards. Great Respect! So simple and eye opening! ❤ 🙏

[@robinsonerhardt]

Thanks for watching!

[@Wthdude.]

I can listen to these two 24/7, they are AWESOME! 👏🏼

[@idmansourfaouzi1810]

Hudson's anectodical caricatural depiction of what he calls 'stalinists' could be misleading for the audience,I advise people to inform themselves of what was the main points of disagreements and rupture between Trotskysts and other Marxist-Leninists,and it was not due to some demagogy or dogma..

[@7kurisu]

Hard agree. Stalin himself knew the USSR had 10 years to industrialise and catch up to the imperialist powers or they would be steamroller by Germany. Context really matters. No mention of collectivisation either, what gives?

[@borkingborker5567]

I was thinking the same thing. As someone who started off as a liberal, then became DemSoc, then Anarchist, then Trotskyist, and then Marxist-Leninist, listening to Trotskyists is very cringe. I have quickly learned that anyone who uses the term “Stalinist” has a highly skewed view of Soviet history based off of western liberal propaganda. Trotsky himself was promoted by the U.S. government and so was the fraudulent “Last Testament of Lenin”. Any true anti-capitalist revolutionary wouldn’t be subsidized by a capitalist, imperialist power.

[@borkingborker5567]

@@7kurisu Not to mention that Trotsky believed in permanent revolution and it would have led the Soviet Union to be in a perpetual state of hot war with most of the world, preventing it from developing itself into a modern industrialized society. That’s why I can’t take anyone seriously who used the term “Stalinism”. There is no such thing as Stalinism, Stalin was a continuation of Marxist-Leninist thought.

[@arnazaron]

Yay! At last your live drumming performance. A very brief one but still beautiful.

[@robinsonerhardt]

Haha! I appreciate this.

[@lysenkotheory3400]

Amazing. Thank you and the great professors for making this happen.

[@robinsonerhardt]

Of course!

[@bernardofitzpatrick5403]

Gold standard ! Journey with you on your podcast has been mile high! Quality All the way! A real privilege, Robinson! Loved the drums clip btw. Authentic wisdom from both Profs.

[@suzywilliams7451]

EXCELLENT! EXCELLENT! EXCELLENT! I learned so much that I wish I wasn’t 60 or I would go back to college and study Economics!

[@tommyburton9986]

This, in fact your entire series is absolutely awesome. Esp enjoyed Rick and Mike sharing their origin stories.. I hope that you make this a regular thing! Thanks Robinson

[@robinsonerhardt]

Sure!

[@philgwellington6036]

This is what gold looks like This is what gold sounds like This is a great feeling too So Robinson.. Kudos to you!

[@pm8661]

Thank you Mr Erhardt interview Mr Wolff and Mr Hudson together for this amazing interview, 👏👏👏👏👏

[@robinsonerhardt]

Sure!

[@JC-lm2tu]

Wow what a history lesson. Brilliant. Thanks

[@vibesverily]

im glad you stopped to mention how incredible michaels ability to lecture off the cuff is at that moment because that one in particular really deserved to be emphasized ive listened to a lot of his interviews and he's always great but about 2/3rds of the way through that section i was genuinely awestruck at how he maintained a loser focus on the thread of what the original question was for that long without stopping or really deviating at all it might be somewhat of a failing on my part, but i rarely ever feel what one could call "admiration" for another human being. michael hudson impressed me so much in this interview that i swear to god there was a moment where i started wondering if i would look good in a pair of suspenders a truly admirable man. thanks robinson

[@robinsonerhardt]

I agree!