Rockwood 2109S Tongue Weight with Cargo and Gear - Know Your Payload Number - Ignore Towing Capacity

Payload (cargo + passengers) of your tow vehicle is the number you need to know if you want to tow safely. Ignore your truck's towing capacity (at least at first). Towing Capacity doesn't matter if you are over your payload number.
I used this to weight the camper's tongue:
Trailer Tongue Weight Scale from Sherline
amzn.to/3O5ojLK
My 2007 Toyota Tundra has a 7,300 pound towing capacity so I should be able to tow a big camper, right? Wrong!
The real number to consider is the payload the vehicle is rated to carry.
Each vehicle has a yellow sticker in the driver's door jamb that shows how much weight (payload) it is safe to carry. Exceeding that weight can be catastrophic.
This videos shows the tongue weight of my travel trailer, a 2021 Rockwood 2109S Mini Lite. Just the pin or hitch weight alone is more than half of my truck's total payload of 1,475 lbs.
My guess is that the actual hitch weight of the Flagstaff Micro Lite 21FBRS will be almost identical to this one.
Before you ask if you can tow a travel trailer or camper with your small truck or SUV, please check your vehicle's payload / cargo capacity. It is listed on a yellow and white sticker in the driver's door jamb.
This sticker lists "Tire and Loading Information" and usually reads: "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed..." The number listed here is how much total weight you can safely add to your vehicle.
Your vehicle's payload includes the weight of everything you add to that vehicle:
• trailer tongue/hitch weight
• weight distribution hitch
• people
• animals
• aftermarket accessories
• cargo
Typical tongue weight should be about 10 to 15 percent of the total weight of the trailer or gross trailer weight (GVWR).
The best way to calculate all this is to weigh at a CAT scale.
This is from the "Rockwood Mini Lite-Flagstaff Micro Lite Fan Club" Facebook group. It is a post from Oren Kern:
You should always weigh like this:
Three tickets -
1) Tow vehicle (TV) with all the people and gear. TV steer axle on pad 1 and drive axle on pad 2. This is the truck's wet weight. From this you can determine exactly how much people and cargo you have in it and exactly how much payload you have available for trailer TW.
2) TV and trailer connected but without the wdh (weight distribution hitch) connected. TV steer axle on pad 1, drive axle on pad 2 and both trailer axles on pad 3. This will tell you how much TW the trailer is applying to the TV, your TV GVW (wet weight), the trailer's wet weight and your GCVW.
3) TV and trailer connected with wdh connected. TV steer axle on pad 1, drive axle on pad 2 and both trailer axles on pad 3. This will give you your TW redistributed on the TV (steer and drive axle weights will be different from ticket 2), your trailer wet weight and your GCVW. This ticket compared to ticket 1 is how you can determine if your wdh is adjusted properly (you want the steer axle back to as close to curb weight as possible) and what you would keep rescaling to dial in your wdh.
Chapters:
00:00 Intro Rockwood 2109S
00:22 Gear that Adds to Vehicle Weight
01:16 Sherline Tongue Weight Scale
01:26 Weighing the Tongue
02:07 What is My Vehicle’s Cargo Capacity?
02:38 How Much Weight Can I Carry?
02:58 What is Included in Payload?
03:20 Payload vs Towing Capacity

[@btl4220]

you are so RIGHT about this and too many people are completely ignorant of this information Thx 4 a good 👍 video

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thanks for watching. Happy camping!

[@bricknboxer]

I have a Sherline scale and it agrees with the local CAT scale. Our 21FBRS (2109S equivalent) tongue weighs 660 with full LP, two 6V batteries and no water on board. Filling the fresh water tank adds 90 lbs to the tongue, 750 lbs total. Always best to get actual weights. Thanks for the video.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thanks for the comments. I'm comfortable that I'm under my payload but I'd still love to spend an hour or two at the CAT scale running different scenarios. It's packed away for the winter but that's a good excuse to get it out one day. Happy camping!

[@JimMFishing]

Just came across your video. I have the 2022 model with almost every option. Rockwood claims a tongue weight of 557#. I've weighed the trailer twice, loaded for weekend camping, at a CAT scale. With 10 gallons of water in the fresh water tank and full propane, the tongue weight was 750#. The two 100ah Li batteries are mounted in the pass thru. I expect you have flooded batteries, maybe GC batteries, on your tongue that are greatly adding to your tongue weight. If you install a bike carrier rated for RV use with a couple bikes in the trailer's receiver, or a cargo carrier platform with gear, it will help offset some of your tongue weight (although it does add to the overall trailer weight). Adding 5 gal in both the black and gray tanks will also help. BTW, 5 gal in the black tank, sloshing around as you travel, along with your tank additive will help to clean the tank.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thanks for all that. We love our 2109s. It's the perfect size for us and tows really well.

[@BigTruckBigRV]

Numbers are on par with what I thought. Thanks for sharing

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thanks for watching. Happy camping!

[@jackg7225]

Having just picked up my 2109s. I drove across the scales and came out with 860 tongue weight. It felt a little swayish on the way home towing with my f150 but maybe I was just a little sensitive. My hitch was rated at 500 #s so I’m getting a properly rated hitch from a friend tomorrow. At least I’ll feel a little better if I go camping at the beginning of the week awaiting my WDH to arrive by the weeks end.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Enjoy your camper. We love ours. There are a couple active Rockwood Mini Lite Facebook groups if you’re interested. Happy camping!

[@tbamagic]

You are EXACTLY correct. I tow this exact trailer with my 5.7 Sequoia. I ran all of the numbers and this rig is utterly maxed out when loaded and ready to roll. And its only my wife and I. The Sequoia is rated at "7200# tow capacity" but it is utterly meaningless because the Sequoia's max gross vehicle weight is maxxed way before this tow capacity is ever reached. I use a Blue Ox WD hitch and I inflate all tires to the maximum recommended pressure before each run.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Awesome camper. We love ours.

[@PDragon21]

Great info! Thanks for sharing!

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thank you.

[@kenj.8897]

Great video , your a smart guy . As one other person said I would take one propane tank off , one 30# tank can go days and days of use .

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

I agree. We really use very little propane. Thanks for watching.

[@AndrewEllisAndymanout]

Good info sir! Thank you.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thanks. I never knew how much payload really mattered until I started looking into it. I have never had a single dealer ever mention payload. It seems they just want to sell the camper...or maybe are a little ignorant on that themselves.

[@carebear927]

Thank you for this video! I hadn’t found one yet that showed how to figure these numbers and which numbers to actually use in the calculations.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thanks for your comment. I never realized how important a truck's payload number was until I got a travel trailer and started reading up on towing. It's amazing how many people are towing way over their limits without ever realizing it.

[@jesserevilla992]

Appreciate this video: your WDH will offset the tongue weight by at least 300lbs if not squat would be awful; Yet would still respect payload limit on tow vehicle. We travel light, seems you do as well. But something for many to consider, perhaps taking off one LP tank if it's not being used. One tank will cover you for days on, for cooking maybe a little heat at bed time if dry camping otherwise a small to mid size space heater is super-lite . Now with fuel prices we are taking one LP tank off. I'm in Florida and in March avg 78-82 degrees. So no furnace heat needed. Our previous TT came stock with just one LP tank. We used the heater a couple of times we cooked with it every time. And after countless times of use we still had LP in it when i went to refill tank. Now we do have a 12V fridge in previous and current TT. Meaning if dry camping not dependent on LP. With todays fuel prices weight adds to fuel cost. I'm in a new 2022 XLS 22 mle. Tongue weight is 490lbs but seems lighter due to the dual axles where as i was in a single axle before and tongue only weighing 380lbs but felt like it was more? its full weight would pivot onto to hitch being a single axle. Our new TT the weight is so well evenly distributed that before engaging the WDH the hitch only gives me but 2inches of squat, that's awesome. Anyway great informative video.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thanks. I'm definitely going to a CAT scale just to see how much difference WDH makes on all the axles and make sure it setup as well as I think it is. With my current tongue weight, I don't think I am in danger of having a tongue weight

[@jesserevilla992]

@@Random-Dad-Stuff I should have mentioned I did the Cat Scale on the previous TT. Will do it eventually on this new rig.

[@WallyG711]

What a great short informative video. I also have a 2021 2109s. Even with my trailer loaded for camping and two golf cart batteries, propane tanks filled my sherline scale shows me having about 690lbs tongue weight. I loaded the camper and truck with everything for camping including the wife and the dog, then went to a CAT scale. The CAT scale confirmed about 700lbs of tongue weight. My trucks payload on the yellow sticker is 3209lbs, I had an AVAILABLE payload of 1700lbs according to my scale tickets. My truck is a 2020 F250 with the 7.3L gas motor, my previous truck was a 2020 Ram 1500 V6 with 1445 payload, the numbers actually didn't work with the Ram so I got a 3/4 ton. Yea, overkill for a Mini Lite, but no worries when I load up for camping. Last trip I got 12 mpg hauling the camper. I got a "Nice Job, perfect setup" comment from Oren.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

That's awesome on your setup. I haven't needed it yet but I would definitely like a little more payload. Our 2109S is an awesome little camper and just perfect for us. I do have a trip to a CAT scale on my list of things to do this year. I'd love to see how my WDH effects everything.

[@BillUtah]

I’d kill for 12 mpg. I’m lucky to see anything over 9 mpg towing 60-65 mph. I don’t trust the displays on the dash as tire size and such mess them up. Paper to actual miles driven vs gas used.

[@CC-gt3ro]

If the camper is 557 dry weight and i add 40 lbs (to fill the propane bottles) and add 100 lbs of lead acid /AGM battery you get 700lbs. If you put people in the trailer it could change the tongue weight depending where they were on the trailer and the loads of your cargo. If the cargo is 200lbs in the front and the people stay in the back, your calculations are now wrong. Without people in it, you would have maybe 200lbs more weight in the tongue. The people create a counter balance. Same if you fill water and tank are more in the front. After using water the grey tank could be more in the back, physically counter balancing the rv. I doubt your cargo weighted nothing and you went with zero water. I think your people have counter balanced the weight. Also if you have lithium battery you would save 50lbs on the tongue as most lithium are only 25lbs.

[@ronpearson1790]

I have a 2019 2109S. The hitch weight on the frame sticker says 421 lbs. I have about the same amount of gear in the front pass-through and two 6 volt golf cart batteries. I tow it with a 2014 RAM 1500 Laramie Longhorn crew cab 5.7 Hemi. Truck has air suspension and I use an Anderson weight distribution hitch. Truck is rated for 975 lbs of payload. With two adults and two small dogs, I've had no troubles in the last three years towing. No abnormal tire wear and no squatting or handling issues.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

I would have loved to weight my tongue at the dealer when I picked it up and compared it to the Forest River number. My sticker shows a little heavier than yours but I would not have guessed that my gear would add all that weight. I'm sure my WDH moves some of that weight off of the truck and back onto the trailer. I just haven't had a chance to get those exact weights yet. Happy camping!

[@BillUtah]

I have a Grand design 17MKE that weighs 4900 pounds empty (the manufacturer says it’s 4674) and it’s hitch is close to 850 pounds. (Manufacture says 480 ) Towed it with my 2015 Silverado 1500 double cab 4x4 with 1750 payload. Add in the 200 pound shell, two of us, 70 pound generator, 2 electric bikes , 85 pound hitch and the payload is eaten up pretty quickly. My 2019 Silverado 2500 HD double cab 4x4 with 2975 payload took care of that problem. There is a difference. Thanks for the video!

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

My son just bought a Ram 2500 with ~3100 pounds of payload. I'm thinking about borrowing it for a weekend to see what I'm missing. I intentionally carry nothing in the truck except for 2 people and 2 dogs just to make sure I'm not maxing out my payload. Now, I just need to scrape together $50k for a bigger truck. :)

[@CC-gt3ro]

A crewcab f150 with the v6 3.5 L and Max tow package has up to 13800 and 1400lbs tongue weight and close to 3000lbs payload. (But the max tow package upgrade the axles, cooling and other stuff 3.55 ratio ,..) so it is nearly equal to a f250 bade with v8 7.3L or ram2500, but inferior to a diesel model f250 or ram2500 equivalent that have more tongue weight and max trailer weight for big fifth wheel. So you can have a 1/2 ton as capable than 3/4 ton

[@MrRMB1]

I just find it comical that these trailers are all 'half ton friendly' yet it's so easy to overload them with normal camping gear. Now it becomes a game to save weight. Use lithium batteries, remove a propane tank, and the list goes on. I have a motorhome on a Mercedes chassis and have to do the same thing. It got to the point where I am now pulling a small cargo trailer so I don't go over the OCCC. Great video!! I just hope that more people see it and understand it's value. Sagging trucks and overloaded motorhomes are so dangerous!!

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thanks for watching. It's almost criminal the way these truck manufacturers are advertising their towing ability. They don't want to educate, just sell more trucks.

[@palco22]

It would seem that way but after years on the RV road we find out quickly what to load and what not to load. I often see RV's filled to over flowing with useless equipment especially lots of power tools, 6 extension cords, 2 long chairs, 2 camping chairs, a 4 burner BBQ with a second set of BBQ accessories (The RV also has an outside kitchen !), two 48 qt coolers, a 30 foot ground spread, more chairs (they might have quests coming in) Tell the guests to bring their own chairs. In the pick-up they also haul two kayaks plus accessories, an extra 20 lbs of propane, two bicycles, beach chairs, parasol and it never ends. Like I said, these RV's are more common then you think. Then I see them coming up behind me on the highway well over the speed limit. Great video and listen to what the man is saying !

[@theomatthias9804]

Too many people look up their trailer's hitch (tongue) weight published in brochures and use that number. Wrong. That is the tongue weight estimated from trailer's DRY weight. The safe way to estimate tongue weight is to calculate 12-15% of the trailer's GVWR (dry weight + cargo capacity). For your trailer, the spec GVWR is about 5,692 lbs (4,171 lbs dry weight + 1,521 lbs cargo capacity). Take 15% of the trailer's GVWR and you get 854 lbs; that's very close to your number! You are very smart to limit what you carry in your Tundra. I wish all other RVers were as conscientious about weight limits as you are! I would also take your rig (loaded for travel) to the CAT scales to further quantify all numbers and to ensure the front and rear axle weight ratings are within limitations. And, finally, use those axle weights to compare with your tires' load weight rating.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Agree 100%! I see people towing giant rigs with little trucks but I think (hope) it’s out of ignorance. This is my 4th camper and no dealer ever talked about payload. I thank Facebook groups for the education on payload and towing safely. Yeah, load rating of tires is another good conversation. Happy camping!

[@scottsmith4934]

Could a counter weight in the back of the camper help?

[@palerider6611]

Great information and awesome use of that scale. Also I believe you said that the trailer was empty. If you add another 1000 lb of cargo, roughly 10-15% of that or 100-150 lb more will be added to the tongue weight which will push you right up to the truck's payload capacity.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

It had all the typical gear already loaded. We don't add bikes or anything other like that when we camp. You're right though, weight can add up fast if you aren't paying attention.

[@chrisolson3372]

Very interesting, and forest river specs tongue weight to be 557lbs. Scary thing is every RV under 9000lbs is always 1/2 ton towable from the sales dept point of view

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

I'm not sure if dealers don't know or don't want to know. Telling someone that the pretty, new RV they are looking at will max out their payload might lose a sale. I had no idea payload was even a thing when we bought out first travel trailer. Everything always references towing capacity.

[@CC-gt3ro]

There are multiple model of 1/2 ton truck. Some have 5000 lbs 500lbs tongue weight max And some have 14000lbs 1400lbs tongue weight max. A f150 crewcab with 6’ bed and v6 ecoboost 3.5 L and max tow package is as powerful and capable than the f250 with the v8 7.3L but inferior to the f250 diesel with tow package (available only with the diesel) both have around 13800 trailer weight max and 1400lbs tongue max. It is only if you need 20000lbs and 1800lbs tongue weight where a f250 could be useful for heavy fifth wheel. With the f150 you will save a lot in gas cost for a normal travel trailer. The f250 v8 7.3 average 8-9 mpg with a 6000lbs trailer in the back and does not do much more around 12-15mpg in normal driving. You will get more mileage with the f150 and more luxury at less price. All truck are not identical in a same category. And i don’t like diesel even if you get more mileage. You don’t find diesel everywhere. And it is more dangerous for health. But if you want a fifth wheel a diesel f250 is a way to go. If you have a 5000 /6500 trailer with 570-650 tongue weight a f150 v6 3.5 with max tow package (very important) is very good. It has improved axles more stronger, cooling, and other stuff that make it stronger.

[@doubled8247]

@@CC-gt3ro the weight isn’t a issue for the f150, it’s the length of the travel trailer. I tow 6,000lbs and 13mph winds push me around a bit. Plus that truck you’re referencing has a HDPP that very little dealers order.

[@terryarndt6761]

Excellent! RV sales people will never discuss Tow Vehicle Payload limits when trying to sell trailers…doesn’t take long to exceed payload limits… do the math.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Agree. I’m not sure if it’s ignorance on their part or just the desire to sell more campers. I’ve learned so much from different forums and websites over the years. Thanks for watching.

[@oldrudedog]

Every Rockwood that I've looked at is heavy at the ball. Some I think is because of the slides but the rest is the way they are built.

[@12restoration]

Loved my Tundra but with the low payload I moved up to 3/4 ton truck for this very reason.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

We love our Tundra as well. As long as it's just the 2 of us (and we don't upgrade campers) we'll definitely keep it. I don't know how someone with a family, and all the gear that comes with kids, stays under payload with a smaller truck. Maybe I just need an excuse to buy a bigger truck. :)

[@thefixer8457]

Im new to Rving but not to hauling and proper weight distribution of gear stored in the trailer while traveling. I guess it is just me but it seems that there is a LOT of gear right up front in the pass through. Taking some of that gear and strategically placing it in other storage areas will definitely get you closer to Walters tongue weights. I pull a 29ft Puma 26RBSS with my 2021 Tundra and have never gotten over 700lbs tongue weight with almost as much gear as you are packing. I CAT my set up well before the trip in order to make sure Im all good on the scales when towing. One day Ill be a big boy and get me a 3/4 ton but for now that Tundra is doing just fine. Proper tires, weight distribution and staying at 65mph makes for nice towing anywhere. Oh, one other thing. Do not take it for granted that the dealership set up your weight distribution hitch correctly. Mine was way off....really wouldnt have been safe to tow home. If it hadnt been for those good ole CAT scales or as my wife calls them Fish scales

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

I'd love to have a 2021 Tundra. With prices the way they are now I'd have to mortgage my house to get one...if I could even find one.

[@AdventuraHighway31]

I'm glad you are mentioning load placement, it is not about moving from 1/2 to 3/4 ton that will change the way you load your trailer to optimize the tongue and more such as sway control 👍👍👍

[@therambler0001]

I had a 2018 Tundra. Great truck, but the sticker had payload at 1311. Every half-ton towable trailers I was looking at left me with only 100 pounds of cargo in the truck. That’s without fuel too. I miss my Tundra but had to get a larger truck.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

I towed with my son’s Ram 2500 recently on a very windy day. It was very stable. I don’t think I would have tried that in my Tundra. We’re in a position now that I don’t think we’ll be upgrading campers anytime soon but there is no way I’d add any additional weight to my current truck. Hey, maybe that’s my excuse to buy a new truck. 😀

[@therambler0001]

For sure, don’t want to be on the wrong side of the law.

[@AdventuraHighway31]

Very informative but... Tongue weight is one thing, the way you load your trailer is another one; you could easily reduce tongue weight by better load placement, i.e. spreading load over and or behind the axles.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Unfortunately, in the case of the 2109S, there is not much else that can be done about load placement. We don't carry heavy gear and the only outside storage is in the front pass-through. It would surprise me if there was 50 pounds of gear in there. The bed is in the front of this model and we also don't load gear on top of it, for that reason. It has the standard mattress and the only additional inside gear that far forward are the few pounds of clothes we have for the weekend and the sheets and pillows on the bed. If the bed were in the back, that would be a great solution. Rockwood also put the fresh water tank in front of the axles and we don't travel with fresh water. Food, bathroom, and pantry items are on the back wall, so they are already offsetting the maximum weight possible. I really do wish there was an "easy" way to reduce or shift weight around but the majority or our weight comes from the factory items, not added gear. We had a camper in the past that was really easy to load gear behind and over the axles. When the kids were younger, we could have bikes or kayaks and all the weight would be in the back. Even without the assistance of the weight distribution hitch, I'm confident that I am below my truck's payload. I still have not had the opportunity to get to a CAT scale to calculate my actual weights.

[@CC-gt3ro]

It is normal. Dry weight is before options and before full propane tank and batteries installed and of course before filling water. You need to determine what was the options you choose and also add 40lbs for filling the propane tank and add the battery weight (60lbs for deep cycle but only 25 lbs for lithium battery). So if dry weight is 557 + 40 (two bottle) + 60 (battery) + 100lbs options minimum and tien you add the cargo and a little water you get easily 850-1100lbs tongue weight

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thanks.

[@owlpath4280]

What is your truck hitch weight rating without using a WDH?

[@tm8747]

i would install air lift air bags in the rear 5000# units with or without compressor. i had the same trailer at one point, installed the bags , my truck dodge 2008 1500. i did something also later , removing the propane tank and relocated them under the trailer in front of the first rear axle, went with a unit one step higher then the 2- 5 gal. tanks total was 16 gals, the hitch weight now is 450#, still use the air bags , , the other problem i see wrong with the tundra, is the gears is the rear end, there 4.30 much lower then most trucks, my friend changed his to 3.73 and got 6 miles the gallon better.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thank you.

[@steamhostler4252]

If your fresh water tank is in FRONT of the axles, a full fresh water tank will add even MORE tongue weight. Course, as you camp and fill the Black and Grey tanks, that might reduce your tongue weight. Since you have that nifty weigh scale, you should try different holding tank scenarios.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

It would be interesting to weigh the tongue right before I break camp and head to the dump station. Not that I would ever drive a long way with full black and grey tanks, but I'd be interested to see how much weight it offset. I have a feeling that I'm right around that 15% tongue weight the way I have everything setup.

[@ShawnPatterson402]

Great information. Going to a CAT scale fully loaded for camping is definitely a good idea. I have a 2015 F150 with Max tow package and tow a Cougar 26RBS. Fully loaded with my wife on board and all we were 13840 at the scale.. it was 3320 on steer axle, 3720 on drive axle and 6800 on trailer axles. Went back with the truck loaded the same but with trailer and hitch off. steer was 3320 (exact same) and drive was 2580. A lot to be learned from these numbers. First my weight distribution hitch is doing its job, as after hitching up, I am transferring enough weight to the front of the truck to maintain its weight on the steers (capacity of this axle is 3520, so with or without the load it has 200# to spare. (this also is confirmed by the fact that my front bumper returns basically to its unloaded spot after weight distribution) This also shows that my trailer loaded plus 2 batteries and 2 - 30lb propane tanks and my hitch adds up to 7940. 6800 was on the trailer axle so I have 1140 tonque weight after weight transfer. Rear axle capacity is 3800 so I am safe there, my trailer axle capacity is 8800 so very safe there, and my trucks hitch receiver is rated for 1250 downward pounds in a weight distribution situation so well under there. For reference my fresh tank was almost full of water and my grey and black were empty. This also is good, as my fresh tank is in front of the trailer axles, and the black/main grey are behind. The secondary grey is right around the axles. Thus as I use up this water and move it from fresh to dirty tanks this will actually remove a bit of weight from the hitch which is fine and will add some weight to the trailer axles which have 2000 lbs of free space. A lot of numbers and a bit of math, but complete peace of mind that I am not overloading anything and it tows like a charm. Cost less than 20 bucks, and biggest challenge was getting my wife to the CAT scale twice :) oh and as a side note this also guided me to reduce pressure in my trailer tires for a much nicer ride. my rig came with 225/75-15 E tires that are rated for 2860# each at 80psi. Clearly at 6800# divided by 4, they are only at 1700# each. knowing that they are probably not all taking a perfectly equal share all the time I added buffer, and the tire charts tell me that these tires can handle just over 2200# at around 55# each of pressure. Thus I have more than 500# of buffer, so I am confident that at 55# these tires handle the load just fine and the ride is so much smoother and less bouncy on the trailer.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Excellent info from you as well. It’s great to know that people care about towing safely. Happy camping!

[@akelkhunter]

Good info but I would br careful about your tire pressures. You are assuming equal load between the tires. Not the real world case unless you are always on flat surface.

[@ShawnPatterson402]

@@akelkhunter I completely agree with your point. However I did take that into account. As noted I had 6800 pounds on the trailer axles which would be 1700 pounds per tire. The tire charts for my tires show that at 1760 pounds per tire I could run at 35psi. I personally found that too close for comfort, as the load is probably never distributed perfectly equally. So I basically added a 33% buffer and went to the chart at 2270 pounds which gives me 55 psi and this is what I run at. This allows for more than 500 pounds extra per tire, but is still well below the max cold pressure of 80 psi which is for a rated 2830 pounds per tire.... much smoother ride at 55 vs 80 psi, and hopefully the 500 pound buffer per tire is going to work out. I have put just over 3000km (~1875miles) on the tires since the pressure change and all seems great so far. Safe travels.

[@atwowheelguy]

A CAT scale will give the actual weight on the truck including the weight transferred off the truck by the WDH. Mine transfers 13% of the tongue weight off the truck to the trailer axles.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

It sounds like you are dialed in perfectly. I’ve still got a trip to the CAT scale on my list. I’m very confident I’m within my payload capacity but would love to know what the official numbers are.

[@jackg7225]

This video and the comments have me wondering. I drive a f50 with the 3.5 ecoboost , 7200 # payload limit. I’m supposed to get my 2109 tt on Saturday. I was thinking of getting a carrier to put the generator on and put it on the back of the trailer. This might actually help the tongue weight issue. I just sold my single axle, 3k dry trailer but last year I had the water reservoir full, 32 gal, and my buddies heavy suitcase was just above the water on a bunk maybe slightly behind the axle and heading out of town, I got a little sway action. I was getting gas a few miles later and I moved some weight up to the front of the trailer, no more sway issue so that was in my mind, about the weight on the back if I put the generator at the back. Either way my plan was to check out the CAT scale after I get the trailer but I wish dealerships were honest about trailers and if the tow vehicles would be able to tow specific trailers. My door says I have between 1300 to 1400 payload capacity. Minus 500 # for two men only leaves me 800-900 #. And I’m not buying a new truck, manufacturer have priced themself out of business!

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

We love our 2109S and have had no problems while towing. We are definitely mindful of keeping additional weight out of the truck to stay below our payload capacity. You’re right about too much weight in the back of the trailer causing sway. An “unloaded” tongue is not good. The rule of thumb I’ve read is 12-15% of the trailer weight should be on the tongue. We have not had any trailer sway from this trailer. Good luck with everything and Happy Camping! 😀

[@pauldimascho964]

E rated all terrain tires, Firestone air bags, and TRD sway bar. Items needed for Tundra to pull 5000lb more trailers. I wouldn't pull without AT tires and TRD sway bar. You will feel significant changes and safer.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thanks. Happy towing!

[@rioborzeli147]

Had a Tundra , sold it due to the 850 in fuel costs . just crazy back when gas was cherp , today paying 225 a litre in canada

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Wow. Yeah, gas and diesel are crazy expensive right now. My daily driver is a Prius. lol

[@bobdrawbaugh4207]

Thanks for the video. This is approaching or exceeding the 15% of GVWR FOR towing. I’m wondering how accurate that scale is? I had a Ram 1500 that also had a very low payload 1250 pounds.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

I still have not been able to get to a CAT scale while I am all loaded up. It'll be interesting to see the actual weights and also how the WDH effects the tongue weight.

[@barrynash1126]

Thanks. Great video, with a lot of food-for-thought. Just bought (but have not yet picked up) a 2024 2109S -- wish the Forest River spec sheet was more clear about what did-and-did-not factor into the printed tongue-weight (or did I just miss it?). This comes into play for me since part of my purchase involves a dealer-installed Husky WDH. Now I'm wondering if they're installing the #32216 (tongue weight 400-600#) or the #32217 (600-800#). Based on your numbers, maybe I should've requested the #32218 (800-1200#). My guess is that they'll just go with the 557# hitch weight on the FR spec sheet (and the #32216), which means my WDH will be under-spec'd. Will find out.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

I'm glad I found out my actual tongue weight so I can keep my payload within the limits of the truck. It's one less thing to worry about. Good luck with your 2109S. We love ours. It's a great size and can fit just about anywhere.

[@jackg7225]

I’m in the same position, I’m picking up my 2024 2109 on Saturday. Have you been happy with towing yours and what do you tow with?

[@barrynash1126]

@@jackg7225 Towing with a 2018 Ford F150, 8-cyl. Since my above post I've made two trips, one predominantly flat in Texas and NM, and the other with a good bit of elevation gain in Colorado, where I live. The F150 is a crew cab with a 3.55 axle, GVWR=7,000, GCWR=14,400 and Payload Capacity=1,679. Actual Sherline'd hitch weight is 850#, and I'm using a Husky wdh. Obviously more than half of my payload is taken up by hitch weight. As to your question re. "Have I been happy with towing (the 2109S with this vehicle)", I would have to say "Yes", though I would always like to get more mpg (only averaging about 10mpg). BUT, subjectively, I must say that I doubt that I'd tow anything much heavier with the F150, mostly due to my sense of "laboring" the engine on grades, but also because of the "numbers". With two adults, two large dogs and a modicum of tools, spare gas and water, and misc equipment, I'm right at the truck's 7000# GVWR, which is the biggest negative. As a 2109S owner, you're already aware of the TT's weight -- mine is stickered at 4435# with a max cargo payload of 1343#, giving a gross combined trailer weight of 5778#. Assuming I don't fully-load the trailer (say only 1000#), and my towing capacity is only 7,400# (i.e. GCWR minus GVWR), the above combined trailer weight puts me at 73% of towing capacity (if all my math is correct). As I noted, vehicle towing preference is very subjective, but since the 2109S puts my F150 at max payload and 73% of towing capacity (some sages recommend staying below 80%), I think I have support for my opinion that the F150 is OK towing the 2109S, but nothing much more.

[@evenstargalaxy9586]

My RV dealer told me that if you use a weight distribution hitch you reduce tongue weight by about 30% as the hitch moves some back to the trailer axels and sone forward to the front axel.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

That's definitely true that some of that weight will be redistributed back to the camper. I haven't had a chance to get to the scales yet to get my actual numbers.

[@jvogel431]

@@Random-Dad-Stuff Hey there, great video. Thanks for taking the time to create it. Just want to add a caution about weight distribution systems. They do not reduce the tongue weight (ball load) of the trailer--they actually increase it a bit by the weight of the added equipment. It is basic physics. Weight distribution hitches apply torque to the tow vehicle which shifts the over all mass more to the front axel from the rear axel. It is a simply about torque. It does not reduce the overall mass in anyway and does not effect the tongue weight.

[@JimMFishing]

@@jvogel431 Correct!

[@Jesse-tm1kr]

The WDH if tight will throw at least 150Lbs or more back onto the trailer frame. In my case it’s 200 Lbs onto the TT’s frame. I know from the Cat-Scale. Our TT is a Grand Design XLS 22mle. My hitch weight loaded is 790Lbs.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

That’s my thought as well. Although, I still haven’t been able to get to a CAT scale to see exactly how much. I still don’t load additional cargo inside my truck. I really don’t want to push the payload capacity. Happy camping!

[@barrynash1126]

That's been my experience as well (i.e. the WDH throwing weight back onto the TT). I recently scaled my Rockwood 2109S and F150 and observed the following: Unhitched Hitched w/o WDH Hitched w/ WDH Steer Axle 3240# 2920# 3080# Drive Axle 3080# 4180# 3680# Trailer Axles 5280# 4520# 4660# Note that the lightly-loaded weight of the TT alone is 5280#, and when lowered onto the hitch, it puts 1100# onto the F150's rear axle while lifting 320# off the front axle. Significant squat there. The WDH throws 140# back onto the trailer, 160# onto the F150's front axle, and reduces the drive axle by 500#. All very interesting. These numbers would undoubtedly vary per various adjustments of the WDH, but I didn't mess with it further since the TT was level and the F150's wheel well heights (front & rear, unhitched & hitched w/ WDH) were consistent.

[@johnripley6298]

I have a 2017 chevy Silverado and like to bring my 70 lb fat tire ebike and my wifes soon to be three wheeled trike. Do we need a 2500 to pull our 2511s

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

It's really hard to tell without knowing all your weights. For sure, it can never hurt to have a larger tow vehicle. Every vehicle has it's own payload rating. The best thing to do is start with your own sticker in the driver's door area. It'll give you the max payload. Then, just start subtracting all your extras that get loaded into the truck: people, pets, gear, etc. That'll give you how much you have left for the trailer. The tongue plus the WDH is probably 900 pounds but totally depends on how you have it loaded. Some of that weight will be transferred back to the trailer by the weight distribution hitch. The goal for your tongue is 12-15% of the trailer's weight. All that is a good estimate but going to a CAT scale is really the only way to know for certain. I'm comfortable that I'm under my payload but I still have that on my list of things to do as well.

[@northlander4370]

I am waiting (still ) for delivery of my 2022 2205s mini lite ...the brochure say tongue weight is 634 lbs. ...after watching this video i dont believe the brochure is accurate . i will be pulling it with a 2021 F150 3.5 twin turbo v/6 , the specs on the truck is 400hp , 500 torque and payload is 1649 lbs. , i carry a firman generator , 100 lbs , my wdh is 100 lb. , i will have to be careful with my packing for sure .

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Very nice. We love our Mini Lite. I don't think it's the brochure being inaccurate as much as it's the additional gear that adds to it. I definitely want to run my setup to a CAT scale next time I'm heading out so I can get a completely accurate reading and also check my WDH. Even if that portable scale I'm using is off 10%, that still put's my tongue weight near 800 pounds. I'm not worried about exceeding my payload but would like to know what the real weight is.

[@TK-fc1dm]

3:23 you're showing the tow rating for the 2uzfe, that is the 4.7 L v8. Yours is the 5.7 L 3urfe.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Good catch. Thanks. I've noticed these Tundras have low payload capacities compared to the weight they are rated to tow. My brother has a 2019 TRD Pro that is even less than mine. I'm guessing it's due to the additional accessories and 4WD on his. My son just bought a 2019 Ram 2500. It has a 3000lb payload capacity. That's what I'm talking about! So jealous.

[@TK-fc1dm]

@@Random-Dad-Stuff Awesome payload for sure and the only option if you are going for large trailer towing but.....its a Chrysler.

[@boydsommerfeld3314]

Thanks for the video, we are looking at buying a 2109S. Rockwood has the hitch weight listed at 557 lb. on their website. Your tongue weight is 875 lb., is Roockwood's number out that much on other weights?

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

From what I understand, the manufacturer's weights are all with the trailer unloaded. Adding propane tanks, batteries, and gear all contribute to the larger number. The best way to get an accurate weight reading is still at a CAT scale. That's on my list of things to do this spring.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

That's interesting. We upgraded from a much smaller TT so I didn't have the tongue weight scale when we bought this Mini Lite. I'm curious now to see if I can strip out all my non-factory gear and accessories and get to the original tongue weight.

[@hibbi24]

@Stay at Home Dad this is not true. the UVW is the dry weight at the factory but does NOT include LP tanks as part of the weight, nor the batteries

[@CC-gt3ro]

Dry weight if without the options (min 100lbs additional like micro wave or fridge) with out the filling of the two bottles (40lbs) and without the batteries (2 x 50lbs for lead acid agm batteries and 2x 25lbs for lithium) with the weight of addition solar panel (25lbs each ) or inverter (22lbs) and without additional wires (30lbs) and especially without the water added. You get easilly 300lbs more at start without water and even more if you fill water. One gallon of water is 8.3 lbs. if you put 20 gallon then it is additional 166lbs and depending of the location of the tank you can add a good amount of weight on the tongue.

[@CC-gt3ro]

@Stay at Home Dad it is for LP gas tank empty. You must add 40lbs after filling the tank to the dry weight

[@bghvid]

I got a question for y'all....When you look at your truck's max weight payload...does that include the fluids in the truck specifically what's in your gas tank?..Or are the numbers calculated with a full tank?

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

I've always read that payload is calculated with all the equipment the vehicle left the factory with, including a full tank of gas. I guess it really all calculates into the GVWR, which is the total weight including the vehicle.

[@willieperry7357]

Pay load is everything you put in your truck including you and your passengers if you have added anything on your truck like side steps bed covers etc reduces your payload

[@doesntmatter5704]

So how does the weight distribution hitch effect the actual tongue weight and the trailer weight? I have heard that the weight distribution hitch can reduce the tongue weight down by 50%, which I then assume would increase the trailers weight by the remaining 50%. Does this make sense at all?

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Yes, a WDH definitely moves weight off the tongue and redistributes it forward and backward. Ideally 12-15% of the trailer's weight will be on the tongue. I've never been to a CAT scale to figure out exactly how much weight is on each axle with and without the WDH. It's on my list of things I want to do but never seem to have the time on the way out of town when we are completely loaded up.

[@orenkern9778]

No wdh will ever move 50% of TW back to the trailer...and you wouldn't want it to as that would unload the tongue and an unloaded tongue is the main cause of sway. A wdh has 1 purpose; to move TW from the the TV drive axle to it's steer axle to fix an unloaded steer axle that happens when bumper towing. A wdh sends a nominal amount of TW back to the trailer...typically around 100 lbs...just enough to offset the weight of the wdh itself.

[@georgioantoine4194]

what tires are you running on the TT?

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

We still have the tires that came on the camper. The standard tire is the Goodyear Endurance but our dealer ordered our camper with the “upgrade”. We got Westlake tires. I would have preferred the Goodyear but I have not had any problems out of the Westlake.

[@frankzicari784]

Everybody is so stuck on payload capacity. I tow with a ford f150 and we are within the numbers but our ford explorer which is a 7 passenger vehicle. If we put 7 adults weighing 220 pounds each we are over the explorers payload.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Yeah, it really shows how fast you can overload a vehicle.

[@MikeJay0716]

You probably already know this but with a 7300# max tow capacity your max tongue weight is only 730#. 875# is crazy heavy.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thanks for watching.

[@bobdrawbaugh4207]

It’s not really out of line. Most professionals recommend a tongue weight some where between 10 and 15% of The trailers GVWR for safe towing.

[@coreyforshey3812]

Beefier shocks & a weight distribution hitch & you’ll be FINE

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

I'm really happy with the Tundra and this 2109S. It's just the two of us so I've never been over payload. The WDH definitely makes a difference when towing.

[@waltpankowitz5125]

Beefier shocks do nothing to increase payload. They may even lose you a few lbs.

[@palco22]

I suspect bad weight distribution in the RV. The two full 30 lb bottles and one deep cycle 12V battery puts a 150 to 175 added pounds to the tongue. Whatever, you have too much tongue weight as is.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

Thank for watching. Happy camping!

[@michaelbailey50]

100 lbs = 220 kg. So isn't the smaller # on the scale the lbs. That would make the tongue weight about 440 lbs. Is it just me or is he reading the scale wrong.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

I wish I could say I had that much capacity left on the tongue. I’d load up all my gear in that thing. Weight actually converts the other way: 1 kg = 2.2 lbs.

[@doublediamondrailroad5949]

You’ve probably got 350-400# in the front bay?🤔

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

I did take a look and estimated that the gear in the pass-through is in the 100 pound range. Most of the items are plastic or aluminum. The heaviest thing I have in there is a small bottle jack that is in the 6-7 pound range. All my other tools are probably 5 pounds. However, the clothes, sheets, blankets, extra towels, etc are all stored on or near the bed in the front as well. Maybe 50 pounds of stuff in there?

[@doublediamondrailroad5949]

@@Random-Dad-Stuff Aren’t the Factory Tongue Weights the as built Empty Weight?

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

@@doublediamondrailroad5949 I think most people are mis-informed about towing weights and how to calculate what they can safely tow. I know I was. When a manufacturer advertises that their truck can tow 10,000 pounds, that's the number everyone goes with. I knew nothing about payload when I bought my first camper. The RV dealer certainly never mentioned it. My trailer's weight is well under my truck's towing capacity but calculating the payload tells the real story. I'm at 80-85% capacity of the payload with only 2 adults, 2 dogs, and no gear in my truck.

[@doublediamondrailroad5949]

@@Random-Dad-Stuff I towed a 2007 Wildwood 28 ft Stick and Tin that was like under 500 Tongue weight and around 4650 Empty. Gross about 6600. We never carried Water or Sewer weight. We towed it with a 2006 Dodge Durango 2WD with an upgraded rear end. Could pull 8000. We were never over 6000. Mopar Hitch was 500 capacity, but with the Equal-izer Distribution Hitch it was 900#. We never Loaded it up over 600#. Did just fine, all the way to Traverse City 3 times from E. Ohio. 😊

[@davidwelty9763]

This shows how dishonest and deceptive the RV industry is.

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

“Let the buyer beware” definitely applies here.

[@Bill-vo1wn]

Word of Caution, right now isn't the right time to buying a new RV. My new Grand Design has been a Total nightmare 😢

[@Random-Dad-Stuff]

I hate to hear that. I know a lot of people have been saying there are quality issues with their campers. We've been happy with our Rockwood. There were a few minor things we had to fix after we bought it but, overall, it has been a great purchase. All major systems have performed perfectly over the last year. I've heard great things about Grand Design. You should definitely be getting the quality you pay for.

[@mikec8123]

The gear in storage area plus weekend clothes plus battery probably pushing 300 Lbs. Truck cargo capacity is not the same as truck tongue weight capacity which is usually about 10% of towing capacity.

[@orenkern9778]

Payload is all the weight that can be added to a vehicle before it exceeds it's GVWR; a legal weight capacity. Tongue weight counts towards GVW/GVWR and against Payload. Hitch reciever ratings are a completely different thing, not a legal capacity and not typically a limiting factor in this class of trailer, at least not with a class IV or larger hitch reciever.

[@fredrickriffel5845]

Will not work with your truck. Too dangerous!