Rogue Tribal "Sneak Attack" Budget Upgrade Guide | The Command Zone 349 | Magic: The Gathering EDH

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Show Notes:
Our budget upgrade guide for the Rogue Tribal "Sneak Attack" ZNR precon. We're giving our suggestions for 10 cards to add (for ~$25) and 10 cards to remove in order to bring this deck to the level of "real" Commander decks.
Find the full deck list for "Sneak Attack" here:
magic.wizards....
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[@phlash12]

Playable decks at affordable prices with great reprints. Isn't this what everyone has been asking for?

[@humpiestcandy4419]

Ya the rogue deck is really cool haha I love it and it's flavor

[@jayalan792]

B-b-but my cards aren't worth as much now!! 😭

[@keithcross5241]

I was guessing you guys would sing "every Rogue has its thorn" for the song in the beginning. Lol

[@jonathonpybus]

“Just like every Knight has its sword”

[@seigar119]

JonathonPybus just like every Warrior has his battle axe.

[@maximumjongs]

I think you're missing why they added those specific reanimation spells, all the rogues are very weak. Which means you probably won't be blocking with them unless necessary. The reanimation spells are put in there to pull something stronger out of *someone else's* graveyard to fortify yourself late game (I agree with you on the removal of Fated Return, its just too expensive). Also, it is what the deck was meant to do, Anowan enables you do fill their graveyards so you have a large selection of creatures to steal. Also, I think Door or Destinies is a better choice than Coat of Arms in any tribal deck just because its asymmetrical and tribal decks are fairly common.

[@Dubi264]

Definitely agree. By taking out these and nighthowler they've made the mill off of Anowon completely pointless. Infrequently it will draw a card, but otherwise he is an overcosted lord in this version of the deck.

[@maximumjongs]

​@@Dubi264 Yeah, calling Nighthowler unreliable is a just a bad take, the potential of this card outweighs the benefit of cutting it, bestow is four CMC, even if there are just four creatures in all graveyards, it is worth it. Anything after that is *SOLID* value, especially if you happen to play it on one of the many unblockable rogues in this deck. Even stranger is that they add more creatures to this deck which would also benefit this card, with such weak creatures you are more likely going to have a larger graveyard.

[@inajar7947]

Yeah, I'm saddened that Jimmy and Josh seem to have missed the point of the deck. They also displayed it when they were so down on Open Into Wonder. I've always liked that card but never had the right deck for it, and this one feels like a SLAM DUNK. They compare it to X-cost blue draw spells and kinda just... .brush off the unblockability? When to me, that seems like the *point* of the deck. That card could enable you to slam into your opponents and draw a TON of cards, minimum X, plus extra for the Anowon triggers. Anowon feels like a GREAT way to do mill, way more interactive and interesting (at least to me). The mill is the point, the card draw is secondary (Though also powerful). I'd want to focus on mass reanimation like sepulchral primordial and rise of the dark realms, payoffs like Syr Konrad and other "When oopponents mill" triggers.

[@DarkEinherjar]

Relying on your opponent to have stronger creatures to reanimate doesn't look like a solid plan to me either, unless you're going for a massive reanimation effect like Rise of the Dark Realms or Command the Dreadhorde. Even then, if your goal is reanimating your opponents' creature, there are way more efficient cards to do that: Animate Dead, Reanimate, Necromancy...

[@maximumjongs]

@@DarkEinherjar Stealing opponents creatures seems like the play in this deck, seems like Anowon (a thief) wants you to do it thematically and a lot of the spells included in the precon (7) are telling you to do it. I think its safe to assume that most of your opponents have will have stronger creatures. Twenty of the twenty-six creatures in the original deck are three power or less, eleven of them being 1 power. As far as Josh and Jimmy are concerned Rise and Command the Dreadhorde would have too high of a CMC and price tag, *forty-five dollars* for the five cards you suggested, which is more than twice the price of this entire deck. Animate Dead is a definitely a good budget replacement for Fated Return, in my opinion. What I don't understand is they say that graveyard plays are unreliable in this deck, but what is the win con? What is so reliable about swinging in with a bunch of low powered rogues -- in hopes that you can draw more cards? What are you hoping to draw into, they say to remove the win cons and replace them with more rogues, then they say remove Open Into Wonder because its too dependent on you having creatures??? They are all over the place. This deck doesn't really have much going for it in the first place, like most commander decks, it can only function with your commander out. The commander should help your deck, not be the focal point of it. I think all these rogues are just spinning their wheels without Anowon on the battlefield, they desperately need his anthem because they won't be on the attack unless they are unblockable or flying otherwise.

[@xLeechcraftx]

I think a lot of these are smart cuts, like the expensive reanimation spells, but I feel like more mill payoffs/better reanimation need to be added in their place to take advantage of the milling. Disagree though on the Stolen Identity and Nighthowler cuts for a few reasons. (For those who don't care about my opinion on Stolen Identity and Nighthowler, I've included some solid yet budget card suggestions farther down that might interest you too). Nighthowler can be used for an early-ish pump and mill boost, but I think trying to play it right away on turn 4 isn't the optimal play pattern, even though there's a good chance it'll fly under the radar for a little while till it grows. I think the better play is to treat it like Coat of Arms and hold up for a big swing or killshot by throwing it on an unblockable creature after people have already been milled a bit. It'll probably get nuked then, but even after it's fallen off it's still a big beater that can draw aggro from your synergy pieces. It's also not all that unlikely it could stick around on a rogue more than a turn (in both my personal experience and all the EDH content I consume, there's plenty of times when people just don't have an answer right away), in which case it just creates exponential value with each hit. If you can bounce it or pull it from grave, all the better. Stolen Identity is awesome and really versatile. You'll likely get two copies with it on the turn you play it (one from cast and one from swing), so it's as good as Saheeli's Artistry if you have an evasive rogue out (it's rogues, so.. lol), and it gets better every turn it's not removed. Getting a copy of people's biggest critters, or best equipment, or even mana rocks every time you swing, which rogues already wanna do? That's a lot of potential value that's on a card that's already worth the 6 cmc for the 2 initial copies. Plus, where better to play a cipher card than in a deck filled with unblockable rogues? Then there's things like Stolen Identity + Archaeomancer + Notorious Throng + 1 unblockable rogue for infinite turns. The cmc really doesn't detract much with what you can get from it. But aside from those cut disagreements, some budget suggestions people out there might find useful... Dowsing Dagger: 2 drop, 2 equip that gives you a Gilded Lotus on successful combat damage. Perfect for rogues. Trepanation Blade: Mill opponent on attack to pump equipped critter by amount milled. Have Anowon out and it becomes mill to pump to mill to draw. Great synergy with the deck. Deathcult Rogue: 3 drop unblockable 2/2 rogue. Duskmantle Guildmage: 2 drop with pay (1)(U)(B) to make all opponents lose 1 life whenever a card hits their grave from anywhere for a turn. Paired with Anowon this becomes a monster, despite not being a rogue. I'd argue it's better than Syr Konrad for this deck. Geth, Lord of the Vault: 6 drop 5/5 that can steal any critters and artifacts from graves at instant speed if you can pay their cmc+(B). Their owner also mills whatever you pay. Great mill engine and payoff in one. He's also really cheap these days (around $1-2) compared to what he was. Necropolis Regent: Not a rogue, but gives +1/+1's to creatures equal to the damage they deal. All your 1/1 rogues that are 2/2's because of Anowon become 4/4's after one swing, 8/8's after 2, 16/16's after 3.. so on. Neurok Spy: 3 drop 2/2 rogue that's unblockable as long as an opponent has an artifact. Zareth San, the Trickster: Not out yet; coming out in Zendikar. 4/4 Rogue with flash and "ninjutsu" for rogues with put *any permanent* from defender's graveyard to your field on combat damage. Like hot damn, this is the perfect payoff for this deck. It's so on theme I'm willing to bet Wizards lowkey made this card to go in it. Teferi's Ageless Insight: When you draw other than your first draw on draw step, draw 2 instead. Not directly draw itself, but will make those Anowon draws twice as nice. Blighted Agent: 2 drop 1/1 rogue with infect and unblockable. Deepchannel Mentor: 6 drop 2/2 rogue that says all your blue creatures are unblockable. Lets Anowon swing without worry, not to mention things like Zareth. Coastal Piracy and Bident of Thassa: Both the same as Reconnaissance Mission with minor variations. Little less budget, but still not horrible... Door of Destinies: 4 drop, gets a counter each time you cast a (insert tribe here). Tribe gets +1/+1 for each counter on it. Slower than Coat of Arms, but retains its p/t boost even if someone removes your creatures. Also only buffs your critters, not the whole table's. Price has gone up lately, but $10ish ain't the worst. Vanquisher's Banner: Another one that's around $10; 5 drop, (insert tribe here) gets +1/+1; draw a card on casting that tribe.

[@leonard-gq5eh]

This is gold. Thank you so much!

[@rime3589]

Glint-Sleeve also is a bad pick 3 turn draw 1.

[@dawubber6676]

Love the Geth, Lord of the Vault addition. I chose to add Wrexial, the Risen Deep and Diluvian Primordial to my top end to take advantage of spellslinger decks with low creature counts. I also added a decidingly bad card that I absolutely love, Elbrus the Binding Blade, because this deck will have no problem getting the equiped creature through. That 13/13 demon has so many evasive abilities he might as well have unblockable and be made an honorary Rogue.

[@doesitmatterwhatitypehere]

The Necropolis Regent is a sweet idea and perfect as I was just looking for a replacement for Coat of Arms as my playgroup has too many tribal decks to not have it come around and bite me. Gonna try that card for sure and see how much I will be swinging with buffed rogues.

[@xLeechcraftx]

@@dawubber6676 Those are all great payoffs. I particularly fancy Wrexial. I didn't personally include them in my build, but they were hard considerations. I wish I could have justified keeping Elbrus lol. I use to run that in my Etrata deck until power creep made me have to buff all my decks.

[@SmugLookingBarrel]

Another thing you need to buy for this deck are seven or eight six-sided dice, because in this deck, it's important to keep track of your life total using Sneak Attack dice.

[@nopewipe8900]

Do I need a d20 dice too to attack?

[@NerdByAnyOtherName]

A great budget option I had in mind for the deck that they didn't mention, though they mentioned reconnaissance mission which is similar, is Bident of Thassa. It is literally Reconnaissance Mission for {1}{u}{u} that also can make an opponent attack with all their creatures.

[@chrisgallo2236]

You can also get Coastal Piracy for $2 which is the same thing as well.

[@Nergal123]

It is actually 2(u)(u) and can’t be cycled and is susceptible to artifact removal. Good card still but reconnaissance mission is still way better. Both for redundancy is good though.

[@WeScreamAtWalls]

Slightly offends they didn't bring up Cloak and Dagger. It's practically a budget lightning greaves for this deck. Sure no haste but shroud is still pretty great.

[@childodoom]

Good pick. That card is a slam dunk in this deck.

[@moyza_]

I am very happy, I don't have a playset yet and things are rough around here.

[@Dvinven]

Yup.

[@williamlingg2263]

Another budget and actually pretty neat card to add is trepanation blade. Attacking mills an opponent til the hit a land and then pumps the equipped creature equal to the milled cards. If it's a rogue and it hits it will mill even more from the power bump and likely draw you a card since you at least got a land out of the way.

[@Dubi264]

Unfortunately it is really inefficient mill. You only mill 3 or so cards per trigger, 6 with anowon afterward. You would need to get 4 hits to even be worth the 5 mana to play and equip.

[@jamesoneil2339]

You think like me. I've been looking for a deck to use the Trep Blade, one of my favorite arts, and flavorful cards in the game. It's going to be fun for sure.

[@williamlingg2263]

@@Dubi264 even more unfortunately you are correct lol. Yea... Trep blade usually doesn't get it done unless it's on a commander and you get lucky... But hey it's a flavorful card with dope art. It'll fit into my 5-6 jank card slots.

[@williamlingg2263]

@@jamesoneil2339 ah man totally. It's such a beautiful card that needs a home so bad. It may not be the best at 5 total Mana but I'm gonna rock it anyway.

[@Dubi264]

@@williamlingg2263 You do you. Definitely a cool card, I know I was dissapointed when I decided not to run it in my Mirko deck.

[@jumanjiman86]

In my opinion this deck looks a billion times more fun than the Naya deck. I’m going to build it as rogue tribal theft subtheme and it’s gonna be a BLAST

[@ulisesr2782]

I think both of them are fun in they own way. This is really cool with the mill shenanigans kinda testing you luck, and having things like Coat of Arms to swing for like 15/20 unbloackable is nuts But the Naya is also really cool, like spaming lands with Ramp Spells to get a ton of Angry Omnath Tokens and Obuun triggers and attacking with a tiny 10/10 Trample Land that can also have infect if its an Inkmoth Nexus

[@Mach9330]

@@ulisesr2782 In the Naya deck, you could also put Black Reforged and Xenagos in there so Obunn gets huge, and as a consequence, makes your lands into massive beaters :)

[@sea81793]

Rogues and blasts? Sounds counterproductive

[@dallasfischer6164]

I made mine into Rogues unblockable, its based around things with one power or toughness and doing crazy things. Just an idea I thought I would share if you wanted more ideas to work with.

[@SquareViking]

I played this once (a friend bought it) and it was so much fun I had to get my own.

[@MrRoJo441]

I’m excited for this commander deck. My current deck I’ve been playing in standard is a rouge deck, and it’s super fun.

[@JZjosh2468]

I think a good budget option in the mana rocks for this deck would be heraldic banner. It’s a 3 mana rock but it increases the mill power of your unblockable rogues as well.

[@Volkbrecht]

I'm also not on board with the lockets being bad. I like the card draw on those a lot. It's the one three-mana-rock I'd keep, for that reason.

[@BoucherRaphael]

Scytheclaw in my Snapdax deck with that double strike is mighty good. Mutate right on top of the living weapon too, no equip cost to pay.

[@DylanCEdh]

Nothing beats building a deck while listening to the command zone

[@coreyroberson4550]

24:19 - "We know from experience that you're not likely to cast anything that's 7 cmc or more. 6 and 7 drops, I just don't want barely any in my deck anymore." 25:48 - "Five mana, it's just too much. You can play 5 cmc creatures that you know what they'll do and you know what you'll get, and I still don't generally want to do that. Five is just too much." I've noticed more and more comments, especially in these two upgrade videos, calling Josh and Jimmy out for drifting more CEDH and away from Casual. These quotes are absolutely evidence of that. Yes, in casual, we still need to watch our mana curve, and we still need to apply good deckbuilding theory, but we totally have room for 5-7 cmc and higher; those cards should not be dismissed out of hand just for their cmc. They might want to check their drift a little, or they're going to lose a portion of their audience. And I'm pretty sure casual outnumbers competitive by a lot.

[@maximumjongs]

Let them say what they want about their meta, they have knocked the price of Chromatic Orrery down so low, I could afford to get multiple copies. I just need them to down play the power of Lithoform Engine and Forsaken Monument so I can stock up. :)

[@WHITEKNIGHT95]

Also they make decent money on this show now allowing them to keep adding more expensive cards to their bases. The more and more super tuned cards you get, the less other cards seem appealing. I will say their last game on extra turns jesper eising i believe it was, is actually playing most of a cedh deck. So if people around them are playing super tuned, expensive decks then they will also gradually rotate into making decks more powerful.

[@Nergal123]

For those specific reanimation effects i agree with their reasoning, 5 mana reanimation is too much if your going for an optimal deck, in more casual metas it’s a lot better since not only do you have more time but people are likely to play bigger creatures. But once you fight in 7-8’s it’s starts to sit in your hand for a long time, and even on cast can just be countered, removed, bounced even which is really bad. 7 mana i agree as well since i have noticed it being such a high mana cost to play, if it isn’t super powerful like Zendikar resurgent, and even that feels a little iffy. And just to clarify i play budget decks, 100$ at most, so no crazy powerful decks, only one deck which consistently wins t7-8, and even then 7 cmc if not cheated out feels too much. Which leaves me my last point however, 6cmc? That is completely fine, as long your not playing 6 mana do nothing cards but cards that will forward your gameplan and be generally hard to interact with like a Thousand-year storm, Sun titan, Command the dreadhorde, etc. These cards are often your win conditions and are lots of the time vital to your overall gameplan, or makes said gameplan that much easier to execute. Of course you still play only a handful of 6 mana cards in most decks, but they are still very much viable.

[@maximumjongs]

@@Nergal123 Their logic tells them to remove all reanimation spells, not upgrade them or replace them with more efficient reanimating cards. Just replace them with more rogues... I could throw out card names of all the powerful cards you could reanimate in a perfect world. But its irrelevant because they don't think that this deck should function in that way, despite the commander wanting to mill creatures. Saying you don't want to cast big things because it can be countered, bounced or dies to removal is certainly one way of looking at things, but everyone is susceptible to those things. So its a moot point. If you think people are going to specifically hold up removal against a twenty dollar deck that is just casting 1-3 attack power creatures, I'm not sure what to tell you, other than probably not. Since we're on that subject, one hundred dollars is a budget deck when you're playing against 400-500+ dollar decks. But, I don't think that someone buying a twenty dollar precon is going to agree that your hundred dollar deck is budget. Also, I'm not sure this commander even has the potential of being a powerful deck, especially not the way they plan to "upgrade" it. I'm sure I'll see this deck played somewhere down the line, hopefully on this channel. Until then, I remain skeptical.

[@Nergal123]

Hart The mill support in the deck isnt that much and reanimation as a win con depends on playgroup. Aggressive metas with creatures that are great on their own reanimation is nice, on metas that focus on synergy creatures that need support to work, low cmc creature metas or noncreature metas it becomes unreliable. You dont want to be reanimating a regal force in a dimir deck. Basically reanimation strategy in creature based metas and in noncreature metas play win cons that don’t rely on opponents. Which is probably the reason they opted out of reanimation due to their specific meta. And dies to removal and countered are not moot points. It’s not as simple as every card is susceptible to that. There are levels of susceptibility. Is the win con a creature, the most easily removed type of card other than planeswalkers, or is it an enchantment, generally the most difficult to remove. Or maybe it’s a spell so it can only be countered, does it have split second or uncounterable? Or it’s an etb and you don’t care if it get’s removed or not. This translates to consistency in that win con actually working which translates obviously not a moot point. A very, very important point. Winning with molten disaster and glacial chasm(my personal favorite) is not the same as winning with a Lilliana’s contract or straight combat for example. One can be disrupted by Cyc rift and evacuation and the other basically nothing stops it.

[@lukewulf]

1 thieves’ guild enforcer 1 inkfathom infiltrator 1 glint-sleeve siphoner 1 inkfathom witch 1 knowledge exploitation 1 coat of arms 1 reconnaissance mission 1 sword of the animist 1 scheming symmetry 1 mask of memory Remove: Fated return Extract from darkness Rise from the grave Endless obedience Spinal embrace Stolen identity Scytheclaw Blackblade reforged Nighthowler Open into wonder

[@uglyboi4841]

I’ve been playing magic for around 2 months now and this was the first deck I ever bought and it was easy to pick up and learn.

[@greythecat]

Who gives this video thumbs down?! You may not like their choice of cards to replace but the Command Zone has major network channel production, sound and editing videos. Ridiculous, there's nothing bad or poor about this video. Great job guys, can't wait to buy this deck and upgrade it.

[@unbanrofellos5786]

Its typically interaction bots

[@joeferreti9442]

"6+ CMC spells not playable anymore in Commander format" Sad, being able to play cards that weren't playable somewhere else was one of the things that made Commander great.

[@unbanrofellos5786]

It really isn't the same format anymore

[@Szszszszszszszszsz]

I play 6+ CMC cards and a lot of jank because in commander winning isn't the most important. I'm afraid their group is evolving towards cedh. Mine is still doing great with jank.

[@jonathonleclare9268]

@@Szszszszszszszszsz I agree with this so much! pull back, Command Zone. Restrain yourself from honing that razor!

[@muhdafiq3329]

made me sad when someone just pushed a card’s potential away bcs its 6cmc or higher, my golos deck had like 20 cards that are like 6cmc or higher and its a fun deck

[@alejandrobueno2775]

@@Szszszszszszszszsz Totally! I couldn't watch the entire episode with Jasper, because I was getting annoyed by all that nitpicking haha

[@Dubi264]

I noticed that you took out almost all the mill synergies with the reanimation spells and one of the only 3 mill sources. Instead of leaning into the mill/reanimation stealing you seem to have made a bad tribal deck filled with weak 1/1's that mill for no reason. Btw nighthowler was one of the best cards in that deck. If you had added a little mill it would be very common to see that give +20/+20. 20 power unblockable rogue would've been nuts

[@SlugHug]

Had the same thought here, actually the deck will get worst if you don’t add the two expensive good on all tribal decks cards suggested. Lost a bit of its uniqueness as well. Mill for mill, let’s at least use what went to their graveyard as well.

[@jakeapplegate6642]

Ikr coat of arms is overrated and a super lazy suggestion for a tribal deck.

[@Volkbrecht]

@@jakeapplegate6642 Not just lazy, but outright dangerous to play. A lot of decks can make tokens these days, and the dedicated token tribals, Goblins, Elves and Zombies, will usually outvalue this Rouge-deck by a lot. A board wipe and little bad draw luck, and you might find yourself getting trampled down by stuff enlarged by your own artifact.

[@Nailgraizer]

I agree. Even the upgraded deck looks and feels like a strictly worse Yuriko, who does similar things and is WAY better.

[@Dubi264]

@@SlugHug Yeah, exactly. It doesn't help that, like life, your library is a resource. Mill shouldn't affect your opponents' strategy in any way until they reach really low numbers. So it's not like you can claim the mill had any innate value without synergies.

[@SunShinyReys]

I played the precon out of the box today to feel the deck out before making changes. Spinal Embraced an opponent's Blightsteel Colossus and made it unblock able with Rogue's Passage. I didn't win that game, but I knocked an infect guy out with his own card. Might keep that one in my deck list.

[@Doomgod9000]

Nighthawk Scavenger is also a great recommendation. Pretty much perfect for everything you wanna do in this deck.

[@chrisrobin4962]

I bought it. It's a commander deck for ~20USD. That's one great price for some fun with my friends. After that I can upgrade it as you recommended here or go for a cool sub theme. Also, having 2 kids and work, free time is limited. I rather have a few decks like this on rotation than feeling stressed about finding and buying cards for my next deck. Don't get me wrong, I'll still build when I have the time, but this gives me what this games is all about: PLAYTIME! Thanks for the upgrades. Keep rocking guys!

[@jonathonleclare9268]

I've been wanting to say something about this for a while, but this deck review brought it to the front: The way you talk about efficiency and CMC is quite maddening. One of the things that makes the format great is that we (as a whole) aren't trying to be cEDH, and not trying to run directly into the most efficient, value functioned cards. Somewhere, this has to stop. I get that we want to provide good advice on channels and make sure we're not misleading those who listen but come on. If every deck tech is going to be streamlining it to ramp on two and casting our commander as fast as possible to slam out a win, isn't that just cEDH? Is that really what we want from the format? Playing the game matters, and trying to go "under" every deck to make it faster and leaner just isn't what I want to see all the time. I love you guys and what you're doing, but man.

[@dimbo84]

The nature of an upgrade guide will be things you can do to increase your win percentage with the deck so it makes sense that this video does involve efficency and CMC discussion. The spoiler video probably could have done with less of that sort of discussion but its right to have it in this sort of video, unless its upgrade guides that you don't want to happen?

[@jonathonleclare9268]

@@dimbo84 oh, don't get me wrong, I don't mind tossing cards out and upgrading, but upgrade does not necessarily mean efficiency improvements. Their points at the end about cards that don't fit the gameplan and making it him to the tune it wants are super relevant. What's not is dismissing cards simply because the cost is "to high"

[@cooperbuffat6127]

A card I thought about for this deck is agent of treachery which is a rogue

[@thatoneginger]

I’ve let my yuriko deck sit on the shelf for a while now because the “turn two ninjitsu, drain everyone for 5, get immediately hated” strategy wasn’t doing it for me. The biggest problem I had was how small ninjas were and how often I had to turn them sideways. For a tribal deck, not reliably having blockers is really tough stuff. I might switch to this deck because at least I can throw some death touchers in to discourage creatures coming my way.

[@nik700]

A good way to de-power Yuriko is focusing more in ninjas than unblockable enablers

[@silenceburns1336]

My Yuriko deck uses Propaganda, along with Cavalier of Gales for a 5/5 blocker, as well as Consuming Aberration for a giant blocker. Blood Operative is in there too, because I use a lot of Surveil for top deck manipulation. Once Silent Blade Oni comes out, he can hang back as a big enough blocker. I've found that with enough manipulation, you only need maybe 2 ninjas dealing damage every turn, as long as you have higher cmc spells that you can find, especially those split spell cards.

[@jarrenuine6051]

Knowledge Exploitation is like $20 now lol, still getting though. Great addition! :)

[@julesmartin6972]

I bought these, and cut them down to 60 card commander decks, to introduce my housemates to magic the gathering. 60 cards means the decks are a bit less random, more staightforward and a bit easier to grasp for them. I've build some other 60 card commander decks and we're almost playing every week! I've taught magic to many players and it just cracks me up every time

[@Mr_B_251]

Played this precon out of the box at commander night. It actually became the threat at the table (it was a 3 person game) and having 2 unblockable rogues meant I could hit both of my opponents for 5 and mill 5 each on both players after Anowon and another buff card. The synergies built into the precon are amazing! (Someone even decided to declaration in stone a 2/1 common with unblockable because it was really a 5/4 after buffs!) Now I am fully committed to upgrading this thing! To that end of wanting to upgrade... Random question but I think it might help: In future episodes, is there a possibility of putting the suggested "list of cards to put in" and "list of cards to take out" in the description so that it's in one place? I enjoy the breakdowns of your thoughts of things to add/take out and I think a list in the description for a quick reference after the fact would be helpful too.

[@trigigiga]

I think it would defeat the purpose of creating a video. Having people watch the video helps them grow their channel and be able to have it monetized.

[@MrMalorian]

My biggest beef with this new product is that they somehow managed to have even more wasteful packaging... otherwise I like them.

[@Volkbrecht]

Amen to that.

[@zachmoose3220]

Very true

[@GeelsProduction]

True, but iirc it had much more cardboard than the other regular commander packagings, and way less plastic. I'm fine with that tbh

[@JeLLoH1000]

Scytheclaw combined with consuming aberration and the mill deck effect with this starter deck is hilarious. I got it going it off last time I played and my friends face was priceless 😂

[@tandorgamash]

When you OHKO the lifegain player with a Consuming aberration and a rogue passage.

[@Tygersama]

These set decks arent for me but i love that there will always be a recent commander decks for new players to join the format!

[@TylerHyperFace]

Open Into Wonder actually looks like a banger; you're getting value whenever a creature that wants to deal combat damage for abilities.. I'm actually a huge fan!

[@nshreffler]

I’m super pumped for this deck. I have been looking for a tribal deck for a while and love attacking. This is a really cool take on both

[@aziza_azule6222]

I REALLY like these set Commander decks. They are affordable, easy/inexpensive to upgrade and for somebody like me that pretty much only plays commander I like having so many extra commanders to brew around.

[@Kickasscomedy94]

Comparing these to the planeswalker decks, this is a much better deck and value than the pw decks, and this is coming from someone who likes the pw decks. I’m really looking forward to these. So many people get into magic by buying stuff off the shelf at target or Walmart and play them against friends, siblings, so on.

[@juanfelipereyesecheverri7098]

I’m not new but I really liked Anowon, so I bought the deck and have been buying some stuff for it. It’s obviously not gonba be an ultra competitive deck, but it’s a gamestyle I enjoy.

[@Hundo_Mo]

Scheming Symmetry goes along very nicely with archive trap.

[@jdgrass6134]

I like these, they give you a baseline for a deck that you can tweak more easily. At least that's how I feel that is. I'm getting this deck and making the changes you guys talked about thanks for the video.

[@willmek]

Yesterday knowledge exploitation was 5$ after you posted your video can’t find it for less than 20$. Your sponsors need to pay you more.

[@NorCalWabbit]

Back down to $15

[@jbair327]

Sitting at a solid $24 dollars, good thing I played this card in standard.

[@envison001]

@@jbair327 Back down to 16-17. 12 if you go non-english

[@only1sn1not1taken]

From a product standpoint, this is a perfect product for WotC to pair with this booster set. It's a commander that is begging for several of the new rogues from the boosters to go in it. So you get your skeleton with the commander deck and a perfect product to get upgrades from without relying so/as much on the secondary market for older cards. It's a great approach both for the business and for newer/younger players that don't have a collection and is only building from the cards they pull.

[@J.Rod_Drums]

Please play these decks (whether out of the box or with some or all of the upgrades you guys suggested) against some "real decks" on the next episode of Game Knights.

[@Volkbrecht]

*g* They'd get stomped.

[@benjaminarmstrong9627]

4:26 just cause I know a lot of u guys want it

[@brandandixon3943]

just always auto skip 5 min every episode to avoid the chaff of the episode.

[@AngeloRosales64]

Thank you so much!

[@drongobrat6471]

Absolute legend.

[@kobimcjones]

Thank youu

[@tacticalbutter4574]

This guy is the bro we need...

[@rawntrail]

I think the Dimir cipher spells package would be an excellent addition to this deck concept. That and more hexproof type effects

[@nervmaster]

First thing I thought when I read that commander is to make a discard themed edh. This way I could use symmetric effects and would gain draw value from commander and other rogues with similar effect.

[@Proudfootzorz]

I always run mind siphon in black.

[@MrEvanBacon]

These decks are totally worth the purchase. Very good on their own and have some great staples inside them if you just want the cards inside them.

[@ryanyoung2815]

Duskmantle guildmage can go amazing in this deck. 1ub:whenever a card is put into an opponents graveyard from anywhere this turn, that player loses 1 life.

[@mikemcglasson1286]

and it goes infinite with mind crank

[@WHITEKNIGHT95]

Yup just add mindcrank and boom win out of nowhere

[@CraigRoettig]

Have you guys ever considered doing follow up videos to these upgrade videos?? Id like to see the 2024 recommendations to sone of these precons

[@nonewmsgs]

I thought there were too many of these but I like them a lot and I'm an experienced player and I like the stronger out of the box experience

[@MrSlickwid]

Bitterblossom is good in alot of decks and it makes fairy rogues!!!

[@christophhoelbarth217]

True, but definetely not budget xD

[@UniGya]

And it's also $30 right now, so it's not in budget at all

[@fulgurobaboon1321]

Faeries are black, not rouge

[@UniGya]

Fulguro Baboon bitterblossom creates 1/1 black Faerie Rogue tokens

[@fulgurobaboon1321]

@@UniGya Yeah I know. But "rouge" means "red" in French

[@coltonmykael]

I saw Hall and Oates live a couple of years ago. This was almost spot on.

[@Sinazok]

I really like the 2 extra commander decks paired with sets between major commander releases. I hope they keep splitting all 5 colours between them like they did with these.

[@johnsmithking6646]

“No one is going to buy the deck and use oona as a Commander”. I feel attacked ...

[@somedudeontheinterwebs45]

Oona used to be SOO GOOD. Like so good that it was CEDH viable. How the mighty have fallen

[@IamEpiphanyTTV]

@@somedudeontheinterwebs45 my dog's name is Oona...

[@somedudeontheinterwebs45]

@@IamEpiphanyTTV oh, nice. So just like the card, they're awesome!

[@WilliamAndRose1]

I'm excited - I preordered these way early, for only $30 for the pair (plus like $8 for shipping and tax)... but that means less than $20 per deck, and they've turned out to have $90-100 each just in reprints! I think I will slightly upgrade them and keep them as intro decks for teaching new players, though I have to be honest: the Rogue commander looks fun, so I might upgrade that to full deck status at some point :)

[@eikotehgrowingmouse]

I've been having a good time with putting a lil more love into the milling to create a double danger. And giving it a bit of lifegain

[@robertwilson4834]

I quite like the idea of these set decks, they seem pretty nice to have with the release of a set for people who play commander and they so far include some really nice reprints for people who're either just getting into commander or just people who want some of the cards for a random new deck and find it easier to source one of these decks than it is to find some of the specific parts. Only sad part is that I was kinda hoping that they'd do something similar to what they did with the Brawl decks and have a themed Command Tower, though no luck there unfortunately.

[@kandjar]

Wow no mention of Cloak and Dagger???? Cheap card, auto protect you new rogues

[@grampaw5605]

Whoa! I see our old friend Jesper Ejsing illustrated "Inkfathom Infiltrator". Had never noticed this before.

[@kristennorth3268]

Gram Paw That jumped out at me too, thanks to Extra Turns.

[@NeberusBeta]

I will like to test rootwater thief, gatherer says is a rogue ;)

[@moyza_]

18:30 the Knowledge Exploration price just spiked to five times its value in the most popular Brazilian MtG marketplace! Time to bleed out my group for mine! Thanks, guys!

[@flusterfluff]

This deck might be fun to lean a bit heavier into the mill aspect of and throw people off by saying "mill is really weak in commander" to deflect aggro... Until you cast Rise of the Dark Realms and win the game.

[@vladplasmius2854]

Rise of the Dark Realms!? Didn't you watch the video? Big, splashy spells are a no-no now.

[@Nergal123]

Vlad Plasmius well it is atleast a 16 dollar card, paying a huge chunk of the budget for 1 singular card that you may or may not draw is...

[@flusterfluff]

@@Nergal123 I wasn't saying what I think they should include. I'm saying what I personally plan to include. You don't have to pay any money for a card you already own.

[@Nergal123]

Alice Armstrong i was replying to the other guy, since the reason rise of the dark realms isn’t in the video isn’t just because “big, splashy spells are a no-no...”. Rise of the dark realms would be my addition too if not for me being a budget player. So ill just stick with Command the Dreadhorde.

[@flusterfluff]

@@Nergal123 I'm pretty sure Vlad was referring to what they were saying to take out, while also mentioning that "Hey, you could steal an Expropriate with this card we're recommending" Because big splashy spells are bad. And nobody wants to run them. Totally. /s

[@kandjar]

27:00 Not gonna argue about keeping or not "endless obedience", but - If you cannot attack and the creature you're reviving is... I dunno... Elesh Norn? Avacyn? Massacre Wurm or even Craterhoof (if u have enough 1/1s)... You may be able to attack after that the revival :)

[@TheyCallMeAni34]

I just got the anowon deck yesterday as my first deck and I'm really liking it. I play with my cousins who use ubunn and the other uses skytheryx so I'm not winning a lot, but I'm still having fun.

[@pinholeeye6625]

I dont even care about the deck but love to hear you singing 😂 and get any of your energy! So be like protons and stay so positive!

[@kevinwheeler3457]

I have three of the four new precons, I have only ever bought one precon before, I have not played them yet. Gonna look at the upgrades and looking to play them soon.

[@calmlikeabomb123]

Just picked this up today and I am excited to bust it out now that my buddies are tired of my Esper miracle deck

[@ancientswordrage]

All the rogues are mill effects though 🤔

[@mannishboy17]

I'm totally confused too. What they are saying and what the Anowon card says, doesn't seem to match.- but what do I know.

[@SleepyNubis]

Affordable deck, great reprints, and all for 20 bucks god i'm loving htis. Bought sneak attack since black and blue are some of my favorite colors(tho dimir itself isn't one of my favorite combo). Me and my friend are fairly new i been on and off for a few years but so glad i got into commander now that their selling more into commander(too bad i can't actually go to the locals to play this year)

[@AWE5OMEANT]

They were right about Knowledge Exploitation raising in price. Like the day the decks were revealed, the price soared to $16!

[@project-ghostphazed6293]

Oh I love this deck, so there are 3 specific cards I put in this deck which is 1. arcane adaptation just to turn all creatures I have in hand deck field and graveyard into rogues 2. fleet swallower for the ridiculous mill and obviously people will have to waste a remove spell on it otherwise they will lose to the mill 3. Helm of the host just to make copies of fleet swallower or Anowon or a few other cards in the deck

[@HydraQU33N]

Was a bit confused why i recognized stolen identity so easily but remembered it was in Jimmy's mulan vorthos deck

[@alexanderholland1603]

I bought sneak attack as my first deck and enjoying it so far

[@lucassloan1960]

Yeah I bought a coat of arms like a few days ago and decided to add some swords into the mix the more expensive kinds of ones

[@ILSquirtles23]

I think the big part of open into wonder isn't the card draw, it's the unblockable- it's probably one of the decks win cons, imo, and with that you can get an alpha strike through. The card draw is secondary given anowon helps out in that department

[@joec1060]

The scytheclaw you guys undervalued as an 8 Mana equip cost, but it comes into the battlefield equipped to a 0/0. So first they'd have to eliminate that creature. Can't speak to it's value as a 5 Mana equipped creature but it's light years better than an 8.

[@Parawen2]

yeah, but at that point, you might as well play a quietus spike, its a 3 drop, 3 equip, with a similar ability, the only difference is you swap the +1 / +1 for death touch. being able to play the equipment with three mana is massive, because you don't need to equip right away, and early in the game, like turn two or three, that might be the best drop possible. The problem with the other one, is by the time you can actually put that card on the field, I would hope you would have something else worth while to play for 5+ mana.

[@joec1060]

@@Parawen2 the 2 equipment are in completely different realms I think. The one in the video removes half the opponents life. And if it gets blocked or removed you can just equip it(yes I know for a lot) to a potentially unblockable rogue. Again, I can't actually speak to the value of this one as I've never played it but taking half an opponents life isn't the same as adding death touch.

[@skfaenwulfgrimmwald3041]

Very good upgrades! I found out a very nice combo, didn't see it anywhere. First i love the cipher mechanic but stolen identity is for 6 mana a bit much, so i replaced it with wispering madness so every player dumps its hand and draws that many cards which were the most cards discarded that way, with notion thief you draw the cards instead so you let your opponents discard and you draw a bunch of cards, with the card teferis ageless insight i belief its its name, its from m21, you draw twice that many and to finish your opponents off you have also sphinx's tutelage or teferis tutelage which mills your opponents for 2 for every card you have drawn :D Also very good but mana intensive, besides she is no rouge, is necropolis regent, which gives your creatures a +1/+1 counter for every damage they dealt to your opponents Oh man, i love this deck :D

[@caleb.pepper]

Here's my stance: I'm very happy they're making cheap commander decks for sets AND that there's only two (so I'm not overwhelmed). However, with these specific commanders, they just don't excite me. I don't feel like they're really doing anything new. Honestly, being set commanders, I wish they used the new set mechanics more like the Party mechanic. Overall I'm glad they exist, especially for $20, but these specific two commanders don't excite me. Very excited for what they do in the future though!

[@nolanmanning3749]

more party woulda been awesome

[@caleb.pepper]

@@nolanmanning3749 yeah I don't want to see it immediately die off like mutate

[@Hundo_Mo]

First precon I am very seriously considering buying.

[@leemiller6977]

I just love the " Magical Christmas Land " running joke......hehehehehe.

[@themantyf1116]

I like the rogue decks, I like enabling new interesting themes for commanders, I was a bit disappointed by the landfall deck, turning lands into creatures and pumping them seems honestly uninspired to me.

[@WHITEKNIGHT95]

I said the same thing to my group. They replied that gwr hasnt been a landfall deck yet, i was just unimpressed with the new legend.

[@NorCalWabbit]

Fairly new player to MTG and very new to commander. My philosophy is to play the deck a few times and see how it plays and then adjust. Played it today and the second game was just dismal. Couldn't play anything, nothing was working, bad experience. Watched this video... All the cards that were said to remove were the cards I had. It was quite amusing. I do like the card spinal Embrace as I was able to take a 40/40 with trample so don't know about getting rid of that one.

[@richardplacencia620]

The art for the Game Knights playmat looks great! But, really, when can we buy a Josh & Jimmy "glamour shot" playmat?? You guys rock. Keep up the great content.

[@coralhooper7267]

I bought these decks for my husband and I to play against each other. I love the theme of this but nays kicking my butt. I'm getting too many expensive CMC cards or artifacts and not enough creatures. Tho it was fun to mill half my hubby's deck and steal his best stuff. I would like to have seen more rogues so I thought your deck tech was bang on. I love themed decks I would by the commander decks if they do it again at this price.

[@nimbus1716]

i highly recommend Duskmantle guildmage and mindcrank to the deck. duskmantle guildmage has pay 1UB opponent loses 1 life for each card put into their graveyard this turn. and mindcrank says for each 1 damage dealt to an opponent mill a card. Its a three dollar combo with pieces that go infinite orrr just facilitate into boosting the gameplan of the deck.

[@enriquesoul5370]

Is there a link to just show the 10 cards they recommend to put in?

[@Ninjplayz]

I preordered sneak attack because my first deck was a rogues deck in Lorwyn/Mornintide

[@matthewtaylor6829]

So by your logic, Cyclonic Rift is too expensive and you'll "never cast it" . . .

[@nicholasseiv252]

They said for seven Mana you should or can win the game... I have won MANY a game overloading cyclonic rift ..

[@davenelmes9520]

I’m putting Thada Adel in mine

[@gameraven13]

Arcane Adaptation - your non rogues are now rogues... what about those creatures you stole? They’re also rogues!

[@thesplatcast1714]

I don't know if this is just my personal preference, but I think Icon of Ancestry would be a good addition to this deck . Most of the rogues in the deck cost between one-three mana anyway. So why not add it, you can pretty much tutor for a rogue every turn if it's on the top three cards of your library.

[@codysharp1990]

Yes it's the best product they have came out with for new and old players. I will be buying them all from every set cheap and fun. I hope they do this for every set forever. Easy way to do reprints they don't want in standard and makes it easier for players to get into the game

[@theotherguy4478]

I am tempted to make Sygg my commander and build a mill deck. There are many spells that will allow me to draw a lot of cards and kill my opponents. I would make sure that I would be able to have my opponents graveyards exiled with Leyline of the Void, Planar Void (Planar Void won’t stop any titans, if I remember correctly), and others.

[@depalapili-pala4859]

I'm putting a copy of submerge in to mine. It's cute enough that itll get a reaction and reliable enough that itll be devastating

[@thejerk3824]

I have been thinking of building a faerie deck in modern, this precon just gave another reason to get those bitterblossoms. Love this. Bitterblossom creates a 1/1 faerie rouge token on your upkeep which can be sacrificed with a skull clamp among other thing, yay.

[@Lunarcloak]

Definitely gonna pick up two copies of the deck keep one rogue tribal and gut the second and build Oona fairy tribal

[@matthewmaugeri3594]

I feel as though the card Voidwalk would be the best fit. If you encode Anowan, you make a copy of him every time you attack.

[@georgeboyes864]

I did think something like Teferis Tutelage or Psychic Corrosion would have found their way in for additional mill effects, giving more potential for the Whispersteel Dagger

[@psychogunslinger5034]

I really love these commander decks cheap way to get back into playing mtg

[@secretclerk]

Didn’t see this in the top comments. No mention about how Anowons ability triggers if a card is played that causes creatures to deal damage to their controller. You would mill and potentially draw a card.

[@ty_sylicus]

I think these are pretty cool, especially for new players. The Naya one looks more fun to me though.

[@methmeth]

Did anyone else notice that Inkfathom Infiltrator was drawn by Jesper Ejsing the person who drew their new playmat?