Romantic stories are full of red flags. Why do we love them?

[@thetake]

Check out The Takeaway The Wilds Season 2 on Prime Video kzbin.info/www/bejne/b33GmouFiKmnbrs. We break down the shocking ending and dig through the answers this season gave us, plus the show's biggest new mysteries.

[@redculturedash8074]

@@katherinealvarez9216 I saw the video and found something you could still post back up: the third chapter being about how other characters aged as better role models

[@arthurau9231]

I LOVE being single as I find I've noticed I'm not really a relationship romantic type of person. I'm an individual who enjoys doing my own thing and at my own pace. I also enjoy being my own boss as well and I enjoy the flexibility and freedom that comes with being single. I HATE that the media and society views being single as a disease and that it is impossible to be happy without a romantic relationship with someone else. This is where my sadness and depression comes into play with society and media telling me I cannot be happy alone and that I NEED to find a romantic relationship with someone in order to be accepted into society

[@bluishblow]

the worst part is when we point out that these are red flags and people just think we're heartless or boring

[@DS-uh6ss]

"I don't want no wimpy guy!" I've had more than one fellow-romance writer snap at me. Because, yeah, if he respects you, listens to you, and doesn't abuse you, that's a BAD thing?! He's not going to be good/bad in bed depending on how much he abuses you first, FFS!

[@goobertron9099]

@@DS-uh6ss exactly!

[@MrQuantumInc]

These tropes are so common that it can define what "heartless" means. The awful truth is that true love is not as intense as infatuation. You are not supposed to be in that heightened emotional state 24/7 for the rest of your life, but to accept that means admitting that "marital bliss" is not really constant bliss. @D S Of course there's a focus on manly men. Feminists call society a patriarchy for a reason. So there's a tendency to fetishize and worship powerful men who have power over everyone they meet and exercise that power frequently. Part of the reason feminism exists is because those men are awful in real life, but if you grew up in a patriarchy you probably internalized the idea that powerful men are sexy.

[@kecym.4808]

or be called bitter for pointing out the m&f leads toxicity/ for the whole relationship to be toxic

[@veronicapiccinini7956]

Don’t forget traditional, cowards. I say at this point, it’s better be alone or not falling in love than be in a toxic relationship and screw up my mental health. At the end of the day, I can find love in many forms everywhere

[@chelsmac3179]

Growing up is realizing that a lot of the movies we grew up with (the notebook, twilight, etc) taught us that possessiveness, jealously, excessive fighting, screaming matches, and being overly persistent are what love should be.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

Pop culture detective made a really good video about this

[@Chris-rg6nm]

Did you also grow up thinking you had super powers too?

[@Hello-hello-hello456]

@@Chris-rg6nm Nobody did, because superpower movies were clearly divided from reality, even to a child. But relationships, romance…are very familiar real-life things to many people.

[@kayleighdriessen]

In this era of modern society people seem to be having a hard time knowing what healthy and what unhealthy romantic love is because of red flags in media being disguised a harmless and sometimes even cute/romantic qualities, it's even scary to think how deeply this is rooted into society today it makes me sick to the stomach

[@monaeckle]

Their relationship in The Notebook book was actually so sweet and healthy and not like that at all

[@emiprzyczyna5222]

Monica and Chandler were ALWAYS my personal role model, we need more imperfect but healthy couples like these!

[@catspawgardner3213]

Relationships like Edward & Bella, Tessa & Harden, Christian & Anna & Laura & Massimo are very toxic, dangerous & unhealthy I mean they shouldn't be together. And what's worse these authors have these women get pregnant by these toxic guys.

[@taru8119]

yes! and Jake and Amy from Brooklyn 99! Peraltiago forever

[@DS-uh6ss]

@@catspawgardner3213 because having a baby with him always makes an abuser all better! /s

[@catspawgardner3213]

@@DS-uh6ss Yeah right🤮🤬🤨

[@TrulyMademoizelle]

Uhh Monica and Chandler each had things to work on

[@PrettyPrincess9609]

Don’t ever ignore red flags in a relationship. I ignored the red flags with my ex and he verbally abused me, let his friend call me the n word, he manipulated my family into believing I was the bad guy after I defended myself, he borrowed money from me and never paid me back, and he cheated on me with his best friend. I left him but I ignored all of the red flags until he cheated. It’s really sad how normalized abuse is in the media. I feel that’s why people stay in toxic abusive relationships.

[@samf.s.7731]

I am so sorry that you had to go through all of that. I hope you're doing well right now. And that kind of guy right there is the prime example of an ultra douche.

[@zero1188]

women tend to ignore re d flags because of lust

[@celestinoclemente1954]

@@zero1188 you're a walking red flag

[@GabesEdtiz]

I’m sorry about that :(. You didn’t deserve any of it. I hope you find a healthy, beautiful relationship one day 🙏🏽

[@zero1188]

@@celestinoclemente1954 you sound hurt. go heal

[@mbanerjee5889]

Every toxic relationship mentioned here involves characters that are 1. rich, 2. attractive. Those factors make their partners ignore red flags even if they are aware of them.

[@happygucci5094]

Romantic comedy essentials...🤦🏽‍♀️

[@georgeprchal3924]

Dennis Reynolds explains as much.

[@MrQuantumInc]

Well money means power, comfort, and an easier day to day life. "Attractive" is a catch all term for all the things that make a lot of people sexually aroused within 5 minutes of meeting the person. That by itself is really desirable but society has become pretty obsessed with these things and pushes the idea that people who are rich and attractive are just plain better than everyone else. Meanwhile most people have not had the importance of "red flags" drilled into their head the same way. Of course the video is about movies and TV, and Hollywood has its own reasons to love rich and attractive people.

[@happygucci5094]

@@MrQuantumInc You learn that these are familiar iconography in the Rom Com genre. Also the opposite of this is a familiar trope too: the hopelessly inept/ immature/ mismatched male love interest with a very classically good looking ( generally) woman.

[@alihaydar728]

Wow, thats right. I cant believe they didnt mention the power aspect of the red flagged male

[@cmrandall9151]

In real life, Edward wouldn't have been a sparkly vampire. He would have been a seductive narcissist. Bella meanwhile would have been an empath. Their love story DEFINITELY would not have had a happy ending. Bella would have started off idealized and loved bombed, but eventually been devalued and ultimately discarded. Then she would have ended up on KZbin searching "narcisssism" to figure wtf happened

[@georgeprchal3924]

He'd become a crime fighting vigilante and she'd become a depressed former princess.

[@roguequeen6323]

Spot on

[@ariaalexandria3324]

Bella was too self-centered to be an empathic person, unless you mean empath in the sense that Shane Dawson claims to be one.

[@cmrandall9151]

@@ariaalexandria3324 Didn't she risk everything to stop Edward from killing himself? She also was willing to die in order to deliver Renesemee

[@wandanemer2630]

If she even survives the encounter, honestly.

[@trinaq]

While it's a fascinating achievement for Beth Reekles to have her Wattpad story she wrote at fifteen turned into a successful Netflix trilogy, it's disturbing how romancised Noah's behaviour is. At one point, he even threatens guys to stay away from Elle, and the movie still sets him up as a legitimate love interest.

[@lilil9752]

After watching Julia Cudney´s video i wonder how much of this is actually on Beth Reekles, is said, for ex: that the guy who grabbed Elle´s ass and the guy who asked her out were diferent in the book, so who knows how much the movie changed. Besides, the director had the job to make the story more palpable, adding a proper framing, etc. If you want to talk about writers, Anna Todd´s After is a complete nightmare

[@mewesquirrel6720]

I never liked him

[@samf.s.7731]

I hope she flourishes into a great writer with more adult/mature sensibilities when it comes to writing romance 💒

[@samf.s.7731]

@@lilil9752 Sounds about right, they still think the toxic tropes are more marketable ... Because they unfortunately have data

[@raphaelzakhm7310]

@@samf.s.7731 Do you think someday we will be able to solve this or we are condemned to be this way when it comes to romance?

[@rhondahoward8025]

_"Presenting this persistence as true love can suggest that a person is entitled to a romantic relationship with the person of their choosing and as many do-overs as they need as long as they refuse to give up."_ And this is why I love Gaston, because when he did this with Belle, he was portrayed as the _villain._

[@Ana.Garcia.]

I love that you guys mentioned Jake and Amy because there's a scence where Amy specifically say to him: "Thanks for not trying to make me a better person!" it's hilarious

[@grazielaalmeida8438]

It's not a problem when men try to change women for better, the problem is when they try to change us for worst.

[@heyitsbrya2749]

ok I remember when I first saw The Notebook and when the ferris wheel scene happened I was like " am I the only one who doesn't think that's romantic??"

[@debbiecharles7912]

The book is alot better and this scene in the movie doesn't happen in the book. Ally and Noah also don't fight in the book. They get along really well.

[@nawal6842]

Haha. I know right. Everyone around me loved that except me.

[@Skyler_Momoko]

I know right! I never watched that movie but that scene played whilst I was turning on the TV and getting ready to watch something else and I was so confused that THIS was the movie that people found so romantic?!

[@alim.9801]

I've literally only seen the clip of them in the rain hugging and then that clip with the ferris wheel and like...I'm left wondering HOW DID THE HUGGING EVEN HAPPEN BC THAT FERRIS WHEEL THING WAS PSYCHOTIC 😭

[@SingingSealRiana]

it freaked me the hell out

[@theinformedvegan6758]

I think a lot of female infatuation with these tropes stems from the fact that women are conditioned to see male validation/attention as the most important, fulfilling thing. so something may be dangerous, toxic, unethical, etc., but as long as it's a form of male attention we thirst for it.

[@DimaRakesah]

It's so true. And then you will be constantly accused of everything you do being "for attention from men" even when you're just trying to like I dunno... order a coffee or something and someone decided your existence is only for male attention.

[@lyndsaybrown8471]

And the notion that fighting = love.

[@Zeverinsen]

I wish they'd show more conflict where people are angry because they're fundamentally misunderstanding each other, not because they're possessive or insane. And I want them to stay together because they learn and grow as people, not simply because their obsession means that they can't live without each other.

[@SingingSealRiana]

totaly agree, there are so many ways to get the wanted conflict for a romance through realistic and non toxic ways and showing how to overcome misunderstandings, maybe realise you are bad for eachother and show genuine interest in changing that, figuring out you just do not work with eachother without demonising the other . . . so much more interesting

[@blackswan4486]

Shrek

[@passiveaggressive6175]

Leslie and Ben from Parks also demonstrate a healthy relationship. Yes they have gone through some obstacles but ultimately they both have a deep and loving respect for another. Neither wants to or demands that the other must change. Ben champions Leslie’s political ambitions and is happy to take the back seat and when the tables are turned she is his biggest fan. That is what I think is a ‘normal’ relationship defined through a media lens.

[@justjoannak]

Agree 100%

[@AllieOk]

Parks and Rec, The Good Place, Brooklyn 99

[@DS-uh6ss]

This is exactly why I started writing romance/erotica, specifically, 10 years ago: I was so sick of being told that red flags in relationships were "romantic!" and "what every woman really wants!" No, it's not, especially not for abuse survivors. I have six mss that I'm querying, and most of the rejection comments are that the MMC "isn't Alpha enough." I do such "unromantic" things like including a scene where the FMC says "no" and the MMC... actually listens. Which "isn't marketable" because "he's supposed to grab her and throw her on the bed" instead. Cleary, since FOSG has lead us to After and 365 Days and other Alpha Abuser "romances," I don't understand "what every woman really wants!"

[@Jonquil_Studios]

It's so weird! I'm bi but I basically only read sapphic romances now. Not because I'm significantly more into women irl, but because there are a decent number of popular w/w writers who don't celebrate toxic relationships--and unfortunately I can't say much the same for popular het writers. I have found better explorations of relationships in contemporary literary fiction (Louise Erditch, Zadie Smith, Helen Oyeymi) but those aren't exactly romances.

[@michanone]

Good there are people like you! I'd love to read those. I myself try to write fanfiction that leaves out those red flags. It's hard because even in that scene, people tend to glamorize it. You can really tell who of those writers is still stuck with this kind of ideas as the only romance. It's just not.

[@Zelda00Gamer]

This is why I’m self publishing lol. My MMC is an anxious mess of a softboi and stops mid thrust when the FMC displays discomfort. Because, shocker, consent can be removed AT ANY TIME and there’s no such thing as “a point of no return.” I hate when male characters say “stop me now or I won’t be able to!” Fuck you. Yes you can. If your mom walked in on you at ANY point during sex you’d be able to stop.

[@DS-uh6ss]

@@michanone a lot of writers who are kept out of traditional routes via this kind of gatekeeping are seeing real success with online publishing/small, indie and/or POD presses. If you want to find an audience, I hope you have all the options open to you!

[@TheJadedJames]

Maybe it is bad because I read that and went “If she wants to depict a healthy sexual relationship, why is she writing explicitly in that genre and not a general fiction romance where readers might not have the same expectations”

[@FabalociousDee]

Have to disagree HEAVILY with the Euphoria toxic love. The way Nate/Maddy and Rue/Jules are depicted as CLEARLY toxic and not good for each other at all, and this is one of the few things the show gets right. Rue and Maddy essentially had this idea of what true love looked like and both got a brutal wake-up call. Everything else is absolutely spot on, though. The emphasis on out-of-control passion, and framing that as true love, is messy AF, to the point where we have adults in real life believing in this crap. Which leads to people getting their hearts broken over & over again.

[@samf.s.7731]

I have never watched Euphoria, but Rue and Jules will definitely get me to watch it. The more footage I see of them online the more curious I get. I dropped it after the first episode because ... There was waaaaaaay too much teen sex in there for me to feel comfortable watching 😑😑😑

[@FabalociousDee]

@@samf.s.7731 Yeah...Euphoria is a mess. I like some of it, but it's a fucking mess.

[@AllieOk]

It's done right but believe it or not many viewers still missed the point and intrepeted those relationship as sorely romantic

[@nubiancaynes2128]

I agree with that statement. There nothing glamorized in that show. Disgusting behaviour is accurately disgusting looking.

[@hellund2874]

Can we talk about the reason why so many women enjoy watching these dramatic "red flags" relationships and why they are mostly written by other women? Because, yes, drama plays a big role, but you can also watch drama that has nothing to do with romance. Women and girls also crave stories about possessive, obsessive, jealous, dramatic, over-the-top, controlling, persistent stalker types because they feel unloved, undesired, unappreciated and uncared for in real life. This might be because they are single and unable to find a partner who loves them and gives them attention, or because they have partners who are not all that interested or invested (anymore), give them little attention and are not focused on them. These "red flags" are extreme and exaggerated (to the point of toxicity) shows of affection, desire, attention and care that many women feel lacking in their love lives or lives in general. They know it's nothing to aspire to in real life, but in real life it is also unlikely that you are with a guy who is as fixated on you as these male characters are on the female heroines. This does not mean that men in real life ought to behave like this, but these stories definitely reflect a desire in the audience for attention, passion and devotion that they can't attain outside of a fictional world.

[@heathersaxton8118]

Considering how young most fans of these movies are, it’s probably not so much about being single. Probably does have something to do with attachment trauma though.

[@daydreamer7277]

I absolutely agree. Not that I believe that writing these stories is good, right or even healthy. But I agree with your point that women create or consume these toxic stories as wish fulfillment because of what's lacking in their own life. Moreover, the writers occasionally demonise women in these same texts whom they feel intimidated, challenged or resent for having certain coveted qualities (attractiveness, prestige, a strong personality) by inevitably making them the unwanted rivals for the male love interests devotion or just making them jealous of the awkward female self-insert. It's a fascinating pattern.

[@TheJadedJames]

I think Joe Goldberg is a bad example because that shoe is very very obviously framing itself as a guilty pleasure where the viewer follows the character who would be the villain in any other narrative. But something like say … The Notebook is supposed to be a completely wholesome romance but the male lead was still doing some kind of manipulative stuff to push past nos

[@grazielaalmeida8438]

Good that in real life is not like that, marriages are difficult for itself, imagine with all these drama depicted in movies.

[@Caterfree10]

YES THIS ALL OF THIS. Like, a lot of fiction is often heightened versions of what we want irl. I tend to go for possessive lovers in fiction bc I have never really felt wanted in a real relationship. Not beyond the initial honeymoon phase of the relationship anyway. So the fiction is a concentrated dose of what I want and can't yet have and serves as a substitute until I can get the more moderate and healthy version irl.

[@trinaq]

You'd think that Anastasia and Bella were colour blind, with all of the blatant red flags they overlook!

[@starrsmith3810]

I mean Anastasia IS from a book that started out as Twilight FanFiction.

[@sns_taunoraka782]

They just see red as green 💀

[@georgeprchal3924]

Future murder victim Anastasia Steele. And if we're being honest Rosamund Pike definitely murdered Ben Affleck immediately after the credits of Gone Girl.

[@taru8119]

no they just enjoy the money and luxury more :)

[@Maymei99]

Not color-blind, just blind.

[@kleailia6332]

I was 7 years old when I watched 'Twilight'. When Edward said that he watched Bella sleep, I felt my body shivering from fear. Even more so when I read 'Midnight sun'. If a boy told me he watches me sleep, I would just leave the town and never look back.

[@lemsip207]

That happened in Friends when Chandler got a creepy flat mate after Joey moved out after a big argument between them. Then Chandler realised he missed Joey and vice versa and asked him to move back in.

[@ceciliamarinello7129]

The only couple without red flags are Morticia and Gomez.

[@samf.s.7731]

When ironically that has so many opportunities to be toxic, but they're just not 💕

[@happygucci5094]

🎯💯

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

Interesting that the couple we perceive as odd ironically have the most deeply loving and romantic and healthy marriage.

[@qs4177]

@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 it’s one of my favorite tv relationships

[@georgeprchal3924]

Wednesday however...she definitely murdered Pugsley at some point in their childhood.

[@Phenom24uk]

One thing I would say about yer man from Crazy Rich Asians, hiding his wealth. That I can understand and even applaud for three reasons. 1. That he maybe wanted to see if he can 'get' the girl because of who he really is, not because of his money. 2. If he revealed his wealth right off the bat, it would make him look vain and arrogant. 3. If he revealed his wealth, he would leave himself open to being taken advantage of.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

Honestly I don’t think Nick is a bad person for not telling Rachel about it. He’s very clearly uncomfortable with his status and his family, which is why he came to New York to get away from it all.

[@lexxihd5843]

@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 I haven't watched the movie. Did he really hide it for a few years? Or did i understand that wrong. That would be weird and problematic.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

@@lexxihd5843 Well they'd only been dating for a year. Also I recommend. It's a really good film.

[@notyourtherapist21]

While I do agree with you over these points, I also feel like he should've at least given her a heads up regarding his family, so that she knew what she was getting into. Would've at least eased things up for her a bit.

[@lexxihd5843]

@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 I'll write it down.

[@StephenLeGresley]

Because it does for women what Classic Noir stories did for men. Deep down people actually like toxic and dangerous relationships because they feel more "exciting" and because they have this fantasy that they can change the other person and live out their own personal fairy tales. In layman's terms, people are pretty screwed up when you get right down to the core of them.

[@raphaelzakhm7310]

Yeah, I spend a lot of time thinking if one day we will really be able to "tame" this childish and bad behavior and to learn what is best.

[@grapeshot]

Yeah just about every romantic movie on Netflix is full of red flags. And I'm talkin about that bright crimson red🚩🚩🚩

[@trinaq]

Precisely, it's worse if the movie is targeted at teenage girls, like "The Kissing Booth", and impressionable viewers will grow up thinking that this behaviour is normal.

[@cepahreinholt8710]

@Abridged Brasil I liked the main couple in heartstopper tho.

[@cepahreinholt8710]

@Abridged Brasil I'm glad to share. Tell me if you liked it too when you see it.

[@madnessarcade7447]

@Abridged Brasil you is about a serial killer it’s not meant to be impressionable it’s meant to be a cautionary tale like watch out for people like that

[@davidalves31057]

@@cepahreinholt8710 It's the sweetest netflix couple! No red flags at all in them!!

[@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254]

Bridget Jones and Mark Darcy's relationship (books and movies) have plenty of red flags. Especially on his end: insulting her, feeling superior, the breaking up and making up is constant, reading her diary, not admitting his feelings but cutting off Bridget, and saying she been dealt a hard hand because she wears big pants? (Eyebrow raised in double digits)

[@stephennootens916]

Bridget Jones is just an update of Pride and prejudice.

[@notyourtherapist21]

@@stephennootens916 Except that P&P has healthier depiction of a relationship

[@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254]

@@notyourtherapist21 Thank you. I felt like I was being mansplained or something. Like no one seems to understand or notice the toxicity.

[@lemsip207]

@@stephennootens916 I love how Colin Firth plays more or less the same character in that but in a different role with a different name and different costume. It's like watching Carry On films with the main cast playing the same characters in different disguises with different names in every film. Sid James was always the lecher, Hattie Jacques was always the battleaxe and Barbara Windsor the flirty and giggly blonde.

[@catcat9582]

Also he was in a relationship

[@pablodavidclavijo4609]

When they paint the romantic interest as the villain of the story because she (almost always a 'she') doesn't want to be with Eyes McDreamy, only to end up falling in love with him anyways, sending the message that if you are insistent and stalkie enough you'll win over anybody

[@NeurasEnVideo]

Ben and Leslie from Parks and Rec were a great representation for a healthy relationship that, at least for me, never got boring.

[@colleenodriscoll8914]

The problem with romantic movies is that they’re movies. And movies need some sort of conflict to be interesting to watch. So the writers put conflict in relationships and accidentally make the relationship less-than-perfectly-healthy to keep viewers invested in the story. Because let’s face it-watching a couple in love express their love in healthy ways does NOT make for interesting TV.

[@HeartbreakEsh]

Yep well said

[@FabalociousDee]

This is very true. The problem becomes though, when it's framed as something aspirational, rather than framed as being part of a human experience.

[@cepahreinholt8710]

You can make perfectly good stories with external conflict ( troubles happening naturaly in life but not because someone is an asshole) like how to deal with sterelity or difenrent aspiration in life. Sometimes lgbt romances in media are less toxic because the protagonist have a lot of other problems to deal with just to be in a relationship.

[@anska7475]

I read that so often that you need conflict for a story, while I think this misses the mark. Sure, you need some sort of problem, but what makes the story interesting is how the problem is solved, not necessarily what the problem is. That‘s, in my opinion, the hurdle especially rom-coms stumble over. They have these highly quirky set-ups but then rely on established narrative patterns to solve them, which generally doesn‘t work too well - at least not for me.

[@mermaidmoon2254]

I think there are really good movies that put a spin on that, like The Runaway Bride

[@jerlinej3516]

Personally, these days I’m in the mood for healthy, growth oriented relationships despite each party’s flaws, like Molly and Taurean on Insecure. I mean, at least make it cute. The baby mama drama between Issa and Lawrence wasn’t for me. They are real life problems but I’m just not in the mood for it. I’ve been skipping the drama-filled parts in rom-coms for the cuter relationships of the side characters.

[@sabinatsang]

I actually love watching healthy relationship because they seem so rare in shows and films.

[@SingingSealRiana]

same!!!

[@johnjohnson3709]

When I see a red flag with someone I’m dating I pay close attention in order to not end up in a screwed up relationship. There are too many other people out there who are not going to present me with red flags.

[@jessedarlin]

I still am waiting for this channel to cover American Horror Story. Tate and Violet had such a toxic romance and yet when I was a teen so many of my female friends wanted a Tate or supported their relationship

[@Passions5555]

They do end up together too a few season down..

[@jojodunn835]

I'm a Violet and in context of the show's entirety .... okay, makes sense but condensed and focused absolutely toxic and dangerous.

[@aisheem5018]

I heard this in Leena norms’ video how what she was attracted to in Edward was that he prevented Bella from being gangraped. And would always protect her. And tbh this is what i loved about edward as well. Someone who would literally read the minds of everyone around me to protect me. Then i’d have the freedom to go out when i want, where i want, won’t even need him to come with as his powers work over a distance. Of course the codependency sucks but he also gave her the gift of being invincible. I can see why a bunch of young teenage girls navigating a world of sexism would be drawn to this.

[@happygucci5094]

This is meant to be ironic right?

[@carolinpurayidom4570]

@@happygucci5094 no it makes sense

[@DimaRakesah]

Too bad Edwards was SO protective and SO controlling that his girlfriend wouldn't actually be able to have the freedom to go wherever she wanted.

[@lilil9752]

Honestly, i think the whole getting into ¿toxic relationships in fiction (IN FICTION, real life is more layered) is related to this girls having a huge "not like other girls" complex that makes them think themselves as superior for taming their man(well, not like other humans in Bella´s case) and the men wanting a woman to save them. I can't even give Twilight credit for at least not making Bella/Jacob canon (he makes me so sick, i can't stand people who are that unable to handle rejection) because Jacob is framed as a poor victim of twu wub and him ending up with their daugther is supposed to be a happy ending

[@AamuAurora]

This. "If it was me, it'd be totally different. I'd be understanding and not pushy. Others are too demanding." Later, they discover that they can't change anyone and proper, in their opinion, behaviour won't have any influence on a toxic person.

[@DS-uh6ss]

It trains us to see romantic relationships as us becoming their mommy-bangmaid-savior by playing on the insecurities we're hammered with in a patriarchal society. And it hurts everyone.

[@anaperez-po4ty]

0000u0

[@kzal421]

I think people who believe in the two aspects you said especially those who were highly influenced by such fiction have tried it. It just won't have a happy ending...

[@AlirioAguero2]

It's the female version of ''romancing the virgin'' trope. Men in fiction often fantasize about a girl who has refused every single guy in the book, before he came around, because he's just that special (LMFAO). That's how women see being ''the one'' who will finally tame the ultimate bad-boy. In the end, it's self-pandering, and ''not like the other girls / guys'' at it's most laughable.

[@Buffy8Fan]

The problem with romantic movies and TV relationships is that they are part of pop culture. Pop culture uses conflict to be interesting to watch and read. The conflict in these relationships can either be written as accidentally toxic or be done purposely to validate that fact. When done accidentally fans complain, but if the audience knows it is less-than-healthy, it almost becomes worth the watch in some ways because they can watch it in the same way as if the writers had written it purposely. And lets face it, red flags are, unfortunately, a part of how some real relationships work, so people identify. As long as people are aware of the red flags in real life, enjoying the fiction isn't a bad thing.

[@theblackdaria_]

Since Pride and Prejudice and When Harry Met Sally aren’t in this, I’m gonna assume they’re one of those “healthier” depictions of love 😬😬😬 because both are my absolute favourite love stories.

[@DS-uh6ss]

When I teach P&P, we examine how Darcy is not a viable interest for Lizzie until he stops being an asshole Alpha male. As soon as he becomes someone who empathizes with others instead of just being a rich dickhead, THEN he becomes the desirable romantic hero that she falls for. There's a similar parallel with Han and Leia in Star Wars. The women don't SAVE the men or change them... the men change, and THEN the women see them as romantic possibilities.

[@wijcik]

Also, both Elizabeth and Darcy grow during the story and Harry and Sally have good communication.

[@naveerarizwan5329]

@@DS-uh6ss tbh i never liked pride and prejudice but i never had anything against the couple I thought they were good

[@AlirioAguero2]

@@DS-uh6ss I actually love this explanation of why some romances between ex ''bad-boys'' and more stable women actually work, while some fail. Thanks. :)

[@DS-uh6ss]

@@AlirioAguero2 the problem is almost always when the woman is expected to fix him, as opposed to him just growing the eff up. Just ask my mom. ;)

[@stoplisteningtothestatic7078]

I think maddy is not so much the toxic one in her relationship with nate. she isn’t perfect but she isn’t the real problem. Rue and jules on the other hand are both at fault for their codependent relationship. Rue uses jules in place of drugs and puts jules in a position to be responsible for her sobriety. Jules is also addicted in a way to validation and connection due to past traumas which leads to her cheating because rue is not present in the relationship using drugs and being high and in another dimension 24/7

[@lexxihd5843]

Maddy isn't the problem, but they didn't say that did they? Maddy and Nates relationship is also portrait as really shitty, so it doesn't really apply to this video.

[@stoplisteningtothestatic7078]

@@lexxihd5843 ya I didn’t say they said that

[@lexxihd5843]

@@stoplisteningtothestatic7078 I guess you didn't. :)

[@Dude-dx5ns]

Perfect explanation! Personally though, I think Jules still cheats because she loves getting attention from any possible source, so even when Rue has stopped using drugs, she cannot stop herself

[@Jkjoannaki]

I don't think (some people) are attracted to intense and toxic relationships because of media representation. In my personal experience, I wanted drama because it was a distraction from the real hardships in my life. Financial problems, stress caused by being a uni student, stress with my parents, stress with all the shit going in the world. It was impossible for me to control that shit, so I loved it when I could control problems in my relationship. It was way easier. Just fucking off that relationship could be the easiest way of dealing with a problem. That's not the case with the majority of my problems in life. So it helped me feel somewhat in control while getting me distracted from things I cannot change. Break ups, nagging, jealousy, those intense problems were solvable by fucking off that relationship. But I didn't want to fuck off because when I would, I'd see that I have even more problems to deal with that are unsolvable, like poverty while being a student. So I would go back to my easier to solve problems again and again, distract myself, keep my self non bored. I couldn't think of my actual problems because I would think of my less important problems, those being my exs tantrums everytime I would go to a party alone with my friends, or want to go on vacation alone, etc

[@Halo4beatsB02]

Jesus you need hobbies good lord

[@Jkjoannaki]

@@Halo4beatsB02 everyone needs hobbie, but what's your point exactly? That poverty, studying med school which is extremely difficult, having a shitty part time job and other hardships many people can have can be solved by "just having hobbies"? That's one of the most fucking dumb tone deaf shit I've seen someone writing in a long time. Congrats.

[@AamuAurora]

Very good take. Those mechanisms are subconscious and it take time to understand our motivations. I had similar problem. It was exciting, gave me an adrenaline rush and a sense of victory (against all odds) when an issue was resolved and we had gotten together. It's a matter of personal growth, maturity and honesty with ourselves. It's not as easy as it seems, to take accountability for our relationship problems and break the cycle. This comment reminded me how much have I developed since early adulthood/late teens. Good for us.

[@Jkjoannaki]

@Nonya Bus the word subconscious is really a word most of you cannot seem to understand as I can see. It's not that people seek out toxic relationships. If you ever try to search for any fucking studies you'd find that victims of abuse don't seek abuse, abusers seek for easy targets.there are many studies that's have proven that this is way more likely the case than the opposite victim blaming theory that used to exist in mainstream clinical psychology. I never mentioned that people are trying to find toxicity, I mentioned that they might accept it and not try to find something better because of many other problems they have going on that might get them numb. My shitty relationship lasted 3 months before I broke up and I'm in a great long lasting relationship since then. However some people could be in such relationships for years because they cannot leave due to many other problems making them numb to toxicity and making them feel weak, as if they cannot control the broader prospects of their life so they try to manage the easier parts. Plus it's an extremely privileged take to say "just manage your life problems", it's as shitty as " just don't be anxious/depressed ", "just don't be poor" and many other fucktarded tone deaf advice privileged people give when someone mentions their struggles. Thankfully in my med school we are taught to see things from a broader perspective without assuming everyone is privileged. You know, to be non deontologically horrible doctors, and kon shitty human beings.

[@Jkjoannaki]

@@AamuAurora yeah, subconscious,you are spot on, glad someone with a brain here can understand this. I agree, I also did this and I hope wed talk more about what causes such a self destructive acceptance of toxicity towards us rather than seeing g the surface of things saying "just move on" or "the media is the cause of that"

[@Delirium24]

It's a BIG stretch to say that Tim in About Time "tricked" Mary into thinking he was her dream man. He WAS her dream man. They initially hit it off fantastically, and he went back in time in an act of altruism to save his friend's play that ended up erasing that excellent first "date" from existence. The only notable things he "redid" in their relationship after they got together were meeting her parents and his proposal. She liked him from the start, which was very important, and was *why* he went after her after their meeting was ruined. The story literally says in the beginning that you can't ~make~ anyone fall in love with you no matter how much you time-hop!

[@darcspeagal2]

This feels like a great finale to alot if this channel's message. Growing up as a millennial in the 90s every romcom i watched taught me to be a man strongly akin to ted from himym or ross from friends and back then no one would said anything against that being ideal. Now in my 30s im stuck on the road many millennial men are in that i have to unlearn bad habits that cumber my ability to be the best i can be for any women i meet, or more importantly to be the best version of myself for myself.

[@billygowhoop]

Is being modest about your family's wealth really a red flag? I feel like we as a society have made talking about how rich your family is a somewhat taboo subject. Now I get having to disclose your debts and your own financial situation with someone who you're planning on marrying or spending the rest of your life with. But I don't really feel like I have a duty to tell my partner that my family is rich. Just a little nit-pick, I agree with the rest of the video.

[@cherchehacknostale]

He didn't say it until she saw the house and met them immediately after. It shows that the guy will only tell you of things after they're done. It's the "Better ask for forgiveness than permission" mentality

[@AlirioAguero2]

I agree that among all things featured, I found this one to be the biggest ''nitpick'', but I guess it's the fact that he told her about an hour before meeting them, and not days / weeks before, when he knew where they were headed. I actually don't mind a doze of secrecy in a fresh relationship or the one of a casual nature. It becomes different when secrets are big, and you are in a long-term relationships. Even then, there are *some* reasons I can see work well (protecting your partner from your job secrets or toxic relatives, oath that would involve more people, ect.). That is the ONLY one worth debating IMHO. Other red flags are pretty big, especially overt possessivness, not taking no for an answer, and *especially* any kind of student-teacher or teen-adult relationships.

[@goodial]

I guess that not mentioning it at the begining is the way for a rich person to find someone that does not love them for the money, but for their character. or at least that's probably the mentality behind it. But not mentioning it a few months later when you plan on visiting your family with her and proposing to her? That certainly does feel odd I'd say. Especially not preparing your SO for the ensuing conflicts that might arise is not the best way to go ...

[@daydreamer7277]

I'm here for escapism. I'm not unwise enough to want those toxic relationships for myself, but watching Rebecca Jessel fall for evil murderer Peter Quint (who ended up killing her) or rooting for Pelle and Dani in Midsommar is such a guilty pleasure. I see these couples faults but I want to be entertained without being shamed. I love the series You but I don't want to kill people, nor do I want to be locked in a glass cage. Many people feel insecure, lonely, unattractive, undesirable, bored, etc. So we enjoy couples that overcompensate to the extreme by giving us possessiveness if nobody pays attention to us in real life. Or the girl is made remarkable or special in some way because in our own lives we are quite average and mundane. We feel unsafe and unprotected so we like superhuman lovers who watch over us as we sleep. Fiction allows us to indulge in bad things without having to deal with the consequences of that appalling, and in some cases, downright abusive behaviour in real life, which is why Joe Goldberg is so popular. However, I do think it's important to have more healthy, mature couples depicted in fiction, especially for teens, so we can have proper representation of real love onscreen rather than terrifying, maniacal obsession.

[@susannehermann8930]

This is so true!

[@KitteniaSdlr]

Watching Rebecca fall for Peter Quint was horrifying to me, it was a compelling story but it was a terrifying tragedy rather than a guilty pleasure... I think there's a difference to be made between the story being interesting and the relationship being desirable : a toxic relationship IS a compelling and powerful story to tell, but I think the video essay here is trying to make the point that telling these stories in a way that makes the audience accept it and even root for it promotes red flags as tolerable or even romantic behaviours, which can definitely have a negative influence on culture.

[@daniellele6195]

But why does this narrative exist in the first place - presented as a real possibility not just fictional escapism

[@1fromoutside]

As much as I hated peter and jessica, I loved dani and jamie, because damn, life's sad

[@nommh]

The high drama in relationships has replaced the: Couple is madly in love, but society/parents etc. won’t let them marry. The first toxic relationship may have been wuthering heights, but it was centuries, before this kind of drama became the norm. This is a great video. Thanks!

[@imzjik]

I agree. I hate Wuthering Heights!

[@indigoziona]

I love that The Marvelous Mrs Maisel managed to do the "won't take no for an answer" trope in a way that was both sweet *and* demonstrated why the relationship was doomed to fail. Outlander did a similar thing by having Roger's genuinely romantic gesture win Brianna's heart but also not immediately fix their whole relationship.

[@TheNormExperience]

“Loving someone means never having to say you’re sorry.” THAT. IS. BULLSHIT.

[@sejaladvika9254]

I think u also need to take into account, that Bella was a teenager when she met Edward with no real friends, and anna was more or less an adult (with a friend group that she can rely on ). Twilight is a fantasy with mythical creatures, while the male's temper is toxic it be can be excused by their powers which have an effect on their behavior and also their traumatic past, and the killing spree they went on some years ago .while fifty shades of grey is a twisted love story which is supposed to be happening in the real world. No one who watches twilight wants to date guys like Jacob and Edward in real life, but it's a FANTASY where people can get lost in for some time. But I don't what excuse there is for Christian grey. I would love to hear some opinions if anyone is interested.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

See Jacob was a healthy partner… Until he said he wouldn’t give up when Bella rejected him the first time and before he became a were wolf.

[@najhoant]

I’d like to know more about why so many of these red flag romance stories are in some way made by women. ”Twilight”, ”Fifty Shades”, ”The Kissing Booth”, ”After”, ”365 Days” and ”Bridgerton” (not as bad as the others, but still) were all based on books written by women. ”Grey’s Anatomy” and ”Scandal” were both created by the same woman. Are there any major books, TV series or movies made by men that feature romances like this? I know S&tC and ”Euphoria” were created by men and ”The Notebook” was written by one, but are there others?

[@samf.s.7731]

Shonda is the creator of the series Bridgeston too which is based off of the books. Gotta say, I love the new stuff they add more so than the source material!

[@najhoant]

@@samf.s.7731 Technically, the series was created by Chris van Deusen, but it's produced by Shonda Rimes' production company

[@raphaelzakhm7310]

I also would like to know. Is it merely a cultural issue? Can one day we solve it?

[@DS-uh6ss]

@@raphaelzakhm7310 internalized misogyny. Between women feeling powerless economically and personally, and all of the ways we've been trained since birth to accept abuse as love, it makes sense that the ideal fantasy is a man who, sure, abuses you and cheats on you -- "What man doesn't, after all?" -- BUT HE ALSO PAYS OFF ALL OF YOUR STUDENT LOANS AND BUYS YOU A COMPANY SO YOU HAVE A CAREER? Score!

[@stephennootens916]

While it might be the whole reason mean of things that are Tropes of the genre have been around since Austin and Bronte sisters.

[@christophergarrett7082]

They make love seem easy which everybody knows love is hard and full of daily challenges

[@mmmuuuuuuuuiiiiiiiiirrrrr]

They make it look a lot more fun than it really is, too. When it really gets boring af when you're doing it right. Lol. At least, it seems boring compared to TV & movies. I tell my kids that love is work. To love someone, you have to be willing to do that work for that relationship.

[@Halo4beatsB02]

@@mmmuuuuuuuuiiiiiiiiirrrrr i don't know, i guess if you have mouthpiece, intelligence, good looks and big pp you'll have a much different experience 😉

[@christophergarrett7082]

@Anjali if your in an on and off agin relationship like so many t.v. shows you should break up and find someone else

[@gabrielleduplessis7388]

I am fine with relationships that may have started out as toxic but improve over time. For example Tella and Legend in Caraval. He is (lack of a better term) shady, but becimes someone who earns her affection and tries to respect her boundaries and he also tries to help his brother at points which I liked. Peeta and Katniss. They grew a foundation and eventually trusted each other. If they have enough evolution and good traits to outweigh their toxic ones when they started, I can get behind them. Sometimes it is fun seeing two toxic people in a relationship.

[@dabfr]

As a critical viewer I'm pretty aware of red flags, which means I notice them when I see them. On the other hand, though, I feel like people who like WATCHING toxic relationships, because they are interesting in regards of psychology and suspense and always passionate get more often than not guilt-tripped into thinking that liking them on screen and enjoying them means SUPPORTING them in real life. I love my Euphoria and my Sex and the City and I know that there are toxic tropes in there, but jesus, that doesn't mean I'm supporting them off screen or do want them for myself. I love drama, I love heartbreak, I love people making mistakes and most importantly: I love people redeeming themselves. And just because our PC society (don't get me wrong, I think political correctness is very important in general) finds it easy to make people somewhat iredeemable, I still believe in the redemption arc itself and I love it. What I'm trying to say is: Don't ban toxicity from entertainment media and don't judge people who like watching it. Just remember to watch with your brain on and remind others to so (as perfectly stated in the video: what's romantic in a movie isn't automatically romantic in real life as well, etc.), but feel free to enjoy what you like to enjoy.

[@twiggledowntown3564]

I'm the same way.

[@hrvbox]

i love toxic relationship media i just think it's super entertaining and interesting but most of it should be 18+ because kids are impressionable

[@missheadbanger]

I'm a good judge of character and I was able to know that my sister's boyfriend was toxic even before I met him. The way she talked about him set red flags off in me immediately, she's still with him 4 years later and they just had a baby.. I tried warming up to him for my sister's sake, but it only reaffirmed what I already knew They've never had their own place and have been mooched off of others, they're currently mooching off my Uncle right now. They continue to promise that they'll find their own place and we all know it's bullcrap, it's been 4 months and there are many places available to rent were we live. It's hard to love the person she has become, she's like a complete stranger to me now. I want my little sister back, but I fear I'll never again know her as I once did.

[@arthurau9231]

I LOVE being single as I find I've noticed I'm not really a relationship romantic type of person. I'm an individual who enjoys doing my own thing and at my own pace. I also enjoy being my own boss as well and I enjoy the flexibility and freedom that comes with being single. I HATE that the media and society views being single as a disease and that it is impossible to be happy without a romantic relationship with someone else. This is where my sadness and depression comes into play with society and media telling me I cannot be happy alone and that I NEED to find a romantic relationship with someone in order to be accepted into society

[@juanmanuelpenaloza9264]

I gotta be honest, I've been using the Toxic Romance Hero archetype for the basis of an antagonist in a story I'm writing. Basically imagine a Christian Grey type getting pushed away for an introverted, socially awkward kid and is constantly humiliated by him either by getting upstaged or tripped over by his friends.

[@MrQuantumInc]

The awful truth is that true love doesn't feel as intense as infatuation. So if you want an emotional high you need infatuation not true love. Obviously they answered the question in their title. The media itself has certain needs which are not always compatible with a healthy relationship. Another reason is that some of the most common ideas about what a man or woman should be are not compatible with a healthy relationship either. We like the ideas of the cool guy who doesn't care about what others think, but...uh...being in a long term partnership requires caring what your partner thinks. Other examples are women who are never slutty but still have awesome sex lives. A wife who never nags or complains with a husband who still knows what she wants. Real life requires compromise, though in fiction we can often ignore the contradiction and have it both ways.

[@twiggledowntown3564]

👌

[@NotAnotherKuromi]

That's really sad, I definitely find love more intense than infatuation. Are those people really in love? Or maybe they don't have a good match in a partner? A lot of successful long term relationships have both sides of the couple still feeling intensely about the other, enjoying time together & continually thinking themselves lucky to be with the other person. Maybe some of it is how people view different crushes/romantic interests? Like a crush or obsession can be more like an addiction than an actual relationship, similar to what the victims in domestic violence feel like.

[@aliferouselephant4618]

Male character: Beats people up for no reason, everybody hates him, commits crime, and treats people like garbage, but is handsome. His love interest: I cAn FIx HiM

[@AlirioAguero2]

It's probably because of the deeply rooted ''not like the other girls'' trope. He was a mysoginistic aggressive a-hat who treated everyone like dirt before SHE came around. She wasn't like the other girls. She was so pure, angelic, and perfect that she managed to do the impossible... tame the beast. 😅 The male version of that trope is ''seducing the virgin''. A woman was always alone because of her mistrust of all men, vow of virginity (in older works), or any kind of committment. But then... HE came around. So manly, so perfect, that she ultimately said ''f-it'' and gave herself to him and him only. 😅 Both tropes are ultimately ego-boost for instert-yourself type of protagonist, and both are most often hilariously unrealistic.

[@daniellele6195]

It's not his fault!! He is a victim of the system!!

[@kelseybenham4005]

I’m also loving the romance blooming on Abbot Elementary. It was refreshing to see her break up with her boyfriend, because that’s what was good for her, and not because of any romantic ultimatum

[@amyadams9970]

The sad thing I always feel that women (and men) are being brainwashed by these sort of movies, especially the younger women and men in the world. Like what was so wrong with the men of all those romantic stories who were the second choice? They were too nice, considering and loving....why do romantic movies make those characters the stepping stones and not the toxic ones?

[@kzal421]

There were many stories where I loved secondary characters more.

[@mimid.227]

That's how I felt about Hardin in after , it's kinda like he could get away with his bs because he is good looking.

[@limerence8365]

4:54 They explored this in Frasier! At first one of the characters, Niles, was infatuated with Daphne, Frasier's employee, as a way to have some kind of relationship with between them as the writers had originally written both without thinking of they'd interact with the other in mind. Niles' infatuation became a very hilarious running gag. But eventually they decided to develop the relationship and have them get together. Meanwhile Daphne's actor got pregnant and the writers needed an excuse to hide it, so they made her put on weight. In developing this storyline, the writers addressed Niles years of idolising Daphne. This put pressure on Daphne to look good, so she started stress eating, putting on weight, Niles was completely oblivious to Daphne's weight gain because he had such a powerful image of her being sexy and thin (not that those things are mutually exclusive). This caused a straign in their relationship which created interesting conflict. Daphne had to become comfortable with herself (she did this off screen at a weight loss camp) and Niles had to accept Daphne, as not a goddess but as another human being with flaws. They do this and then have wonderful sex.

[@littleprince12]

When I was a teenager, I found these "red flags" cute, but now that I'm older, they're 🤡🤢

[@amelieflorelle]

When someone shows you who they are in real life, believe them the first time people!! 🚩 🚩🚩

[@mumuaccesoriosentela]

The same thing happens in Gilmore Girls, with Lorelai and Luke. Luke hides his 12-year-old daughter from her, mistreats her for insignificant things, and the series insists on making us believe that he is the one for her. And the same goes for Dean and Rory. Dean is jealous and possessive but is painted as the "best first boyfriend you can have". Moreover, the best relationship in the series is that of Emily and Richard.

[@milktoasted]

Richard was super dismissive of Emily though, to the point where it led to the season long separation. They did have a deep and happy love for each other overall. Rory and Dean is a perfect example of this trope (and their 2.0 makes me cringe every time).

[@MaeAlessa]

Here comes my defense for Luke, pretty much the best character on Gilmore Girls. I feel like they did do him dirty in the last few seasons. But overall, he was an amazing guy. Him and Loralai knew each other for a long, long time. They had a foundation built from friendship. They knew each other to the core, from their bad habits to what made them good people. Luke respected Rory and treated her like a princess. He did Loralai thousands of favor, treated Emily and Richard with respect and kindness, and tried everything in his power to not be a bad person. He took Jess in, which shows he had a good heart, and tried to set him in the right path. He dated Loralai knowing she had commitment issues (Which would be a red flag for him, considering Luke was likely looking for settling down), and accepted her inside and out. About his daughter, yeah that’s when things start going bad. I do consider that hiding April was his biggest mistake, and still, with therapy, I think they couldn’t made it work. His secrecy Isn’t romanticized, and Loralai calls him out for it. April ends up being a key reason as to why they break up. In the end, they get back together not because what he did was right, but because they can get past it together.

[@oooh19]

Dean cheated on his wife Lindsey with Rory but he painted Lindsey out to be bad and told Rory the marriage was over

[@milktoasted]

@@oooh19 yep. And there was never really any solid discussion about holding him accountable for that either. Just more “Rory was a homewrecker” and aggressive female confrontations in the town square by Lindsey and her mom, because apparently Rory was the only one to blame in the situation.

[@oooh19]

@@milktoasted yea women are always blamed. Rory could have stated, "he said the marriage was over!" to Lindsay and her mom. but i guess she was too freaked out!

[@cmz2484]

Thank you for the list! Personally I love intense romance and problematic tropes in fiction (though some scenes shown here are-- questionable even with a romantic narrative xD), and I like conflict, but it seems many people see those stories as teaching lessons, which romance should never be imo. I learnt this lesson with a friend who started an affair with her boss, despite him having a family. We sat down and I told her he won't leave his stable life for her (yes that never happened), after a while another friend told me she got the feeling this friend must think she lives in a movie or so, and then it made click for me as well. I couldn't spare her from making this experience but I sure hope nobody else will ever romanticize a person who's their boss and wants to start an affair. Interestingly enough while I rather consume fucked up narratives and dark romance, that friend loves rom-coms and more the fluff side of it - I genuinely believe this has everything to do with self-awareness.

[@cmz2484]

I also wanted to add that it's normal to overlook red flags when starting to fall in love. Which is why it's so important to have trust-worthy friends to ask for their opinions, and PLEASE believe them! Everyone tends to ignore the hurtful behaviors or overlook them because the feeling of love and sacrifice seems bigger; as this video suggests what's more important is to see the other person as they actually are, and not the idealized version that we forgive everything. Sometimes it takes time though

[@nicheasparagus5225]

The amount of writers glamourising toxic relationships in modern media is actually worrying especially when it’s only years later people realise something is wrong with the relationships like with Twilight.

[@markigirl2757]

With twilight tho people knew right away and that’s why the series got massive hate and ridicule in its hay day

[@Pantitta]

I agree with you totally, but in ABOUT TIME they actuallly fit perfectly, its just the coincidence that tares them apart. So I think that's not a good example, bc they actually loved each other from the beginning.

[@qs4177]

The greys anatomy is a red herring, Derek was already divorcing his wife after his wife cheated on him with his best friend. So no, Derek was not cheating they were literally already over. What disturbed me was how the show forgave addisons cheating and made it seem like Derek was crazy for not taking her back…which is just nuts

[@Lissemt]

Came to find this comment specially since Alison cheated on Derek with his best friend. If I remember correctly

[@vanesalodico7798]

@@Lissemt And she got pregnant by him.

[@witchplease9695]

If love was painful or complicated I wouldn’t want it. I married my husband because he brings peace and stability to my life, and has never failed to make me happy.

[@elizabethleach6346]

Funny enough, all the things that you say make a romance movie interesting is why I don't watch romance anymore. It makes it movies aggravating. I don't get how anyone finds watching people be toxic to each other romantic, modern romance is a horror movie. Not my genre

[@emilymatthews2990]

That’s why I started resenting romance and am not looking for irl. These kinds of movies ruined romance for me.

[@DS-uh6ss]

Same. The backlash I've gotten in the industry for trying to write Romance couples who... you know, like and love each other, is really something.

[@SannaJankarin]

@@DS-uh6ss I'm really sorry. Can you tell more about that experience?

[@mbanerjee5889]

The Half of It is such an adorable movie. More people need to watch it.

[@quasalor1480]

Omg, right? I absolutely lovethat movie so much.

[@limerence8365]

Suggesting people watch romances for healthy depictions of love is like suggesting people watch star wars for its scientific accuracy, its a fun fantasy. It's fun to imagine such an intense relationship or being able to use the force. Course unhealthy depictions of love becomes much more dangerous when people can't make that divide between what is healthy and what is not, but it at least goes a long way of explaining why people love it so much.

[@limerence8365]

13:04 Recent? Jane Austen, mother of the modern romcom was writing healthy couplings full of drama from 200 years ago. Granted that was uncommon back then like it is now, but her romances are the ones that are remembered.

[@hitismeduh]

I'm the kind of person who rolls their eyes when people point out red flags in fictional relationships, but that's because I find it condescending and infantilizing. I'm a grown ass woman. I know the difference between fiction and reality. I'm not turning to fiction for examples of healthy relationships. I'm not going to get the wrong idea, or find myself in a dangerous relationship because of something I saw in a movie. I'm already married and I can assure you that my relationship is completely healthy and free of red flags despite us both growing up when most of the media shown in this video was at the height of its popularity. Now can I please just enjoy the sexy vampires or whatever without someone making a fuss?

[@andreadamons93]

The Take always take's it there and we love it 👌🏾

[@courtneystewart8006]

Thank you so much for referencing the new season of The Wilds on prime! I was WAITING for the new season to come out and your video alerted me! Thanks!!! I will not watch the rest of your video on an immensely important topic! As a marriage and family therapist in training, I am always talking about toxic relationship tropes in romance movies that are so unnecessary and harmful for people to set expectations of real relationships on. Especially younger people who have no other frame of reference for what healthy romance and love should look and feel like. Ugh!!

[@quasalor1480]

Oh my gosh thank you for pointing out the cheating just to get with the One being absolutely disgusting because I feel like it is never ever discussed as a bad thing! And many IRL people do think that too because of what they've seen. And Persistence is awful because it's just a case of the person persisting not understanding that No means No! Also, thank you for talking about The Half of It, I love that movie so much.

[@skadi5802]

One of my main problems with this portrayal of "love" (esp. in ya fiction) is, that it teaches young people all that matters is to be (or stay) in a relationship. No matter how problematic or unhealthy or toxic that may be, because otherwise you'd be a quitter and all alone. If you stay, your happy ending or, well, the next series of love bombing, is just around the corner! But the truth is if it takes someone else to make you whole and keep functioning, you don't need a romantic partner - you need therapy. If someone constantly limits your agency and shields you from other people, they're not protective - they're possessive. If they keep throwing tantrums and getting all violent, it's only a matter of time before you're getting you're fair share of it. And if you're their only reason to keep living or behaving well or whatever, they're not "loving" you for who you are but for how good your making them feel. You're a feel-good prop. Nothing else. Like, seriously, how can anyone in their right mind even consider this to be a great message to send to kids?! (Also, I'm deeply sorry for my weird English, I'm German XD)

[@brandimoore132]

Yessss this deserves way more likes. Sounds exactly like the way my ex was 😭

[@shambhavitripathi6124]

Derek was legally separated and undergoing divorce, but still shitty that he didn't say about this when he was pushy while she was still trying to maintain professional boundaries. They confused being vulnerable and disrespecting boundaries a lot of times, which effects a person's Self-Esteem a lot.

[@dianasciamana5445]

Recently a friend of mine ran back to a toxic relationship he almost quit for good. No matter what everybody say to him, he is convinced that drama and hurting each other mean that their love is the real deal. It's heartbreaking to witness.

[@gingerinthedesertcreations]

I'm not sure 50 First Dates counts for this. Yes he's hella toxic in the beginning with everyone who comes to the island but he plays games to win Lucy because everyday she forgets who he is.

[@awickedformerdisneysinger8445]

I've watched so many shows and movies where, when I see these red flags, it really gives me an opportunity of what NOT to do. With season 1 of Bridgerton, Daphne and Simon are genuine friends, but their relationship becomes unhealthy because of a lack of communication which then leads to really bad behaviour. From that, it shows that partners need to be honest and not try and deceive or trick each other. So glad to see couples like Jake and Amy who can bring the entertainment with a healthy relationship.

[@matariki9818]

When you think about it, it's crazy how healthy Barney was in his relationships (of course, not during his single life, but as long as he's dating someone), compared to Ted. Sure, he cheated on Nora, but he immediately admitted it and put an end to the relationship - and he actually felt bad about it. He never tried to control any of his girlfriends or to make them change. He was the one to tell Ted that no means no (and of course, the show proved him wrong, because the show is written by "Nice Guys"), and after their first breakup, he didn't cling onto Robin and even offered her a great date with her new boyfriend. His relationships with Robin, and even their divorce, was so surprisingly healthy, given how he's portrayed as the bad womanizer during the entire show.

[@amycollins5984]

We definitely need more positive relationships on films

[@safaakhann]

okay so how i met ur mother has a great scene where they talk about how most of these “romantic gestures” wouldn’t be okay if the person who was doing them WASN’T ATTRACTIVE to you in the first place, it’s crazy but it makes sense cause if ur attracted to some guy who’s constantly chasing u it’s cute and caring as opposed to a man u find unattractive then it’s creepy and cringe

[@ellicel]

Having grown up without any examples of healthy relationships, I fully bought into many of these tropes and ended up attracted to and in relationships that were pretty toxic. It wasn’t until after I became a high school teacher and observed how my female students reacted to popular media that I took a very critical look at the connection between my own choices and my indulgence in these kinds of “romance” stories. It still took a lot of work to overcome my learned bad habits and I worry about other young people who might also lack adults in their lives to help them make safe choices. I do think that as consumers we should support movies and tv shows that have positive portrayals of love so that studios realize that stories about people working through issues in healthy ways can be as compelling as the train wrecks.

[@Angi3_6]

Please tell me I wasn’t the only teenager who knew these relationships were just for entertainment and nothing to emulate? All of my friends at the time seemed to truly want relationships like these.

[@naveerarizwan5329]

No me too i watch these couples purely as entertainment i NEVER want a relationship like that. I’m 15 and i know that these romances are toxic, mostly because i grew up reading couples who were actually healthy like Percy Jackson and Annabeth Chase from Percy and the Olympians.

[@Angi3_6]

@@naveerarizwan5329 I love Percy and Annabeth!

[@naveerarizwan5329]

@@Angi3_6 YESS ANOTHER PERCABETH FAN

[@Angi3_6]

@@naveerarizwan5329 Are you excited for the new series that’s coming up? I really hope they cast Greek actors! This would be an AMAZING opportunity for representation! ❤️

[@naveerarizwan5329]

@@Angi3_6 the casting came out like a week ago and yes I am

[@edugie1820]

These shows are entertainment but I understand how it may impact the mind. In all these movies, there are still lessons to be learned. Watching the disfunction can be frustrating for the viewers and sometimes we all don't root for the happy ending. Funny enough, the Notebook and Grey's Anatomy does show the good, bad, and ugly of all the choices made by each character. I don't think those necessarily projected red flags in a romantized way but I do agree that Noah going that extreme in the Notebook beginning was annoying and I think anyone in real life would have given him a serious lecturing. Those two in particular shows how imperfect the characters are and they weren't afraid to show it. We watched each character grow in their own way and how they decided on their final decisions, accepting the ones they love with all their imperfections. I appreciate that about the movie and the show... When Grey was grey that is.

[@Debble]

Jill Barup made a good point about nemesis to lover trope: that a nemesis is only a nemesis because of a kind of respect. You don't see someone less than you as a nemesis they can only form a treath if they are respected as someone with the skills to match or overpower yours. And that respect is hella important

[@dotcombabytm4644]

I've been waiting for a video like this cause this sums up why I stopped watching rom coms, cause modern rom coms can be so....toxic. Especially with that misunderstanding trope which really gets on my nerves cause the main characters that are supposed to be endgame or love interest goals that get into these situations end up overreacting and going overboard into weaponizing each other's vulnerabilities and being cruel to each other, then after a long drawn out separation montage and surface level pep talks from side characters, going into melodramatic sappy love confession speeches and grand gestures without any addressing of devilish patterns of selfish, toxic, juvenile and abusive behavior and then a forced happily ever after. I'm honestly tired of seeing that and that's why I gravitate towards indie movies nowadays cause they actually address awkward, complicated, complex and nuanced aspects of love (and not just romantic love) and tend to be down to earth, grounded, realistic and interesting as well as creative and original.

[@Ana.Garcia.]

I was done with Kissing Booth when Noah did hit the car. I still can't believe they made a sequence.

[@creesalie1460]

For years, Grey's Anatomy was my favorite series. I used to love the couple Meredith and Derek, and I cried when Derek died. But fortunately I realized that every, I said EVERY single relationship in this series was toxic, wrong, weird. This series is just about sex and drama. But I love the actors tho.

[@babrittful]

This whole video makes sense.. it’s all terrible.. but what can I enjoy or look forward to? What’s romantic? I feel like anything exciting is essentially unhealthy

[@marceladuarte5402]

Wow! We need this topic

[@josefk7437]

Those happy endings might not be happy, but karmic. Carrie and Mr. Pig both got the partner they deserved as a result of their shittiness. So did Ross and Rachel. What if instead of getting the girl as a reward, he got the girl as a punishment? The girl will treat him like crap, just as he deserves.

[@klaraelisabeth]

Watching a drama for me is just like role play. It's play. It's not meant be real. With that said I've seen red flag relationships turn into healthy relationships irl. Sometimes it happens. Very rare though.

[@DMMA0726]

Because they mirror how people have been socialized to believe love looks -- to the point that people can be aggravated when anything remotely different is shown.

[@MegaMegafran]

What makes me bang my head against the wall is when the protagonist sees all these 🚩🚩🚩🚩is told by several people that the other person is BAD for them they recognize the other person is BAD for them and they still go back for more!!!🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️

[@ChaoticComrade]

My boyfriend and I moved in together after two months. It just...felt right. We're about to have our two year anniversary. I find that when you have a strong and healthy relationship, timelines don't matter.

[@yinyinbun]

I'm going to be honest, as a dark romance reader I love to read about toxic romance, it's fun. Would that stuff be okay in real life? Absolutely not and it would be a huge turnoff/red flag if my real life partner had those traits. I feel like reading and writing dark romance lets a lot of women safely process trauma that has happened to them. I know this is not the case for everyone and I'm not making blanket statements. As important as it is to discuss how toxic romance in fiction shouldn't be idolized or replicated in real life and teach women the warning signs of real life abuse, I wish we also wouldn't stigmatize women who like to read or write this type of content. My feminism doesn't fly out of my body when I read dub con/dark romance, etc.

[@TheStepmonkey]

Because these love stories need drama so they can be interesting enough. Perfect relationships are boring on screen.

[@auroramadariaga4081]

Carrie had a chance at a healthy relationship with Aidan and she cheated on him with Big... while he was married. Back when I was around 18 I used to love Sex and the City but now with the hindsight of the late 30s I realized what a toxic relationship Carrie and Big had... and what an idiot she was to waste a guy like Aidan. She even explains it in an episode called something like "the pain exquisite" or something like that. Also, during her relationship with Aidan before she started to cheat on him, she tells her friends that she's not used to a drama-less relationship. Instead, she's used to hunting, to be on her toes at all times. Basically, the lack of problems, that he was too agreeable, the fact that everything was alright with a guy for the first time in her life scared her, freaked her out and was on itself an issue and indicative that there was surely something to come. I think romanticizing red flags in fiction has to do with a toxic side of female ego. If men's ego in their worst form is to want to possess/own a woman, women's toxic ego equivalent must be that stupid idea of thinking that we can change a guy and that, only for us because we are the one and special, a guy will change his ways, course-direct his life and stay with us for good. Where does that come from? Is it a weird residue of a wrongly understood mother instinct to want nurture, aid and love, even if the subject doesn't want to? To believe that you are that special, that unique to make a bad guy turn into a good one can have the effect of giving many women an ego boost. I don't know. It's just as toxic as guys stalking girls, controlling their lives, threatening to do self-harm in order to emotionally blackmail and get their way, etc. Meanwhile, emotionally healthy guys like Aidan pass us by because we're focused on changing the bad boy.

[@rebeccaclendenen]

This reminded me of that Christina Ricci film Pumpkin. Would you please do a video on how learning disabilities are portrayed in film and the moral questions associated w them! 🙏