Is the 308 more accurate? - Season 2: Episode 56

Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! In this episode, I answer your questions about the 308's accuracy, the 300 PRC, and more!
00:27 - Jeff Jones: Hey Ron how are they headspacing the .450 bushmaster?
02:08 - Andrew B: Is 308 really more accurate or is it just a flatter trajectory in the hands of a novice marksman who doesn't know how to compensate?
05:20 - EastTexan: Can you talk more about the vom Hofe S.E? Never head of it!
07:38 - Hully5223: Do you think the 7mm PRC is going to shake up the .284 market big time?
12:01 - Erik: Why shoot a big bore when modern technology is applied to more modern cartridges? A 338 Norma magnum slaps out 4500 foot pounds of energy with a sleeker bullet in a more modern platform much more accurately out to much farther distances than a 45-70. Newer is generally better.
13:42 - Gabriel: Where was the Marlin 39 rifle video filmed!?!? It’s beautiful
15:23 - Simon: What do you think of the 300 PRC?
18:24 - NZERO: What are your recommendations for hog hammer rounds, and corresponding rifles, if one assumes they may need to kill several large hogs?
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdoors.com/
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.

[@johnf3f810]

A 308 is certainly the most accurate bolt action rifle I have ever owned, but another 308 was my worst! It's down to the rifle rather than the cartridge in my opinion.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Pretty much my opinion, too, John. It's just that on average manufacturers pay more attention to building 308 Win rifles and ammo for stellar precision.

[@johnf3f810]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors I wouldn't know about the factory ammo - never trusted the stuff.

[@PBVader]

both are true. When you find the magic combo don't lose it. My limited powder and bullet testing proves this out. Now if its general plinking/practice ammo doesn't matter except for reliability.

[@jameswhitaker1324]

Me too.

[@918Mitchell]

168 grain boat tail will tell you if it's the rifle.

[@DanielBoone337]

I do a ton of hog hunting/trapping for ranchers, farmers, and on deer leases and I hunt multiple times a week (when deer season is closed) but for the person who asked the question... Definitely stick with the AR15 platform because if you're doing a bunch of walking and shooting like we do the AR10 gets a little heavy and extremely expensive after a few hours. I'd also recommend cartridges like 6.5 Grendel, 6.8SPC, and definitely don't over look the 223 with a good bullet... personally I run a 6.5 Grendel with the 120gr Gold Dots or 123gr SST and the 223 with the 75gr Gold Dot almost exclusively. I've went down the 300 Blackout road and I've lost more hogs then I've found and you give up a bunch of range especially with subsonic ammo not to mention for a good subsonic round they're expensive. An AR15 chambered in 7.62×39 also gets the job done and it does it better than the 300 Blackout as well. Like Ron said a bolt gun is also a good option and I've had nights where I'm just on fire that I can keep up with the guys shooting gas guns but because I'm hunting for landowners I don't hunt with bolt guns as often as I'd like but it's a lot of fun and it makes things more challenging. We definitely need as many people hunting and trapping hogs as possible because they've really got out of control down here in the south. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!

[@edwardabrams4972]

NO 2 rifles are alike! Your job as the owner is to find out which ammo your gun likes and doesn’t like and don’t assume anything! 60 years hunting and reloading and still just learning! Never stop learning!

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

I met an older uncle here in South Africa Cape Town. He always said any caliber can be as accurate as any other, it's all about tuning it to the particular rifle. The uncle, I think his name was Chris, was a bench rest shooter, and designed his own Cartridge called the 7mm Tombi (his dogs name I think).

[@mattevans-koch9353]

Thank you Ron for another informative podcast. Great questions and great answers. Have a great weekend.

[@natesmith4050]

Thank you Ron! Appreciate your experience and insight!

[@jfess1911]

6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel have been good hog hunting rounds for about 15 years. The 300 HAM'R was largely designed for hunting hogs. I have seen quite a few hunters disappointed by the 300 Blackout, especially with subsonic bullets.

[@whillhern]

If i could only have 1 rifle it would be a 308 Win. I have 3. Goldilocks cartridge. Rifles are nice and compact, easy to load for, reasonable recoil, ammo availability, wide range of bullet weights.

[@boba9253]

Great video Ron!

[@natesmith4050]

Thank you Ron 👍🏻

[@sammartinez8084]

Your show is the best 👍👍👍👍👏👏 and thanks Ron for the info my friend 👍👍👍👍

[@Big_T51]

I have never went wrong with 308 but I never hunt with longer than 500 yard shots. 308 puts game on the ground and that is good enough for me.

[@timhatchett7048]

I’ve got a Winchester model 100 carbine and a model 88 in 284 Love them I don’t hurt with them I inherited them, Not for sale the 100 I’ve been offered a lot of money. I have too many other guns to hunt with but fun to shoot love your shows

[@leskrug9266]

I'm going to fortine , montana in September, 1 week of work, 2 weeks of fishing, 2 weeks of wolf hunting, then to Texas for a week then back to Pennsylvania, all driving my truck. Can't wait!!!!!!!!!

[@jongruen7854]

I've seen the .308 Winchester rifles that shoot moa or better. And I've seen 308's no matter what load is used seem impossible to make better than 1 3/4" to 1 1/2". Personal opinion is ballistics are good to 500 yards. Then after that the shooters need to as good or better than the rifle itself. Coefficients, wind drift, and bullet drop are real considerations.

[@bobparvin9773]

There's nothing wrong with the 308 win. I have a couple and even though I know full well that they're ordinary, mundane, everyday, lackluster, and plain, I still use em, why?...., Cause they're that good!

[@gsitzkowitz]

Hey Ron, Wilson combat has come up with the 300 Hamr specifically for hog hunting. I have one in an AR. For all intense and purpose it’s a 30-30 with about 50 yards more effective range and sub MOA accuracy.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

I agree with your 30-30 comparison. We've been preparing a video on this comparison.

[@darkdragonsoul99]

Headspace is also important for other reasons believe it or not there has to be a space a very very small space between the cartridge and the abutment for the gun to function and seal properly.

[@wyattgraham5711]

New cartridge tech I would say is the 6.8x51 or .277 fury. That steel belt is somewhat new if I am not mistaken.

[@thegreatwhitehunter105]

Lever actions are great for fast reloading. I used a 30-30 Winchester model 94AE and could dump rounds on target as fast as any semi-auto that my friends were using.

[@joelmcmahan7386]

Not sure what it’s going up against, but the 308 has been a reliable tool for hunters, military, and range for many years. Like it or hate it, have to give it credit for a job well done. Good shooting and safe travels to Ron S. and fans who go afield. 👑💪🏽💯👍🦌🥊

[@tommyj7087]

All 3 of the PRC rounds have different length cases. 6.5 is SA, 7 & 300 are LA, but not the same case necked down. Seems like they are optimizing each one. The 7PRC gets me close to my 7 Sherman Short in an off the shelf round with factory ammo. I am looking at it for the factory ammo side, but am enjoying reloading for my 7SS now.

[@timhatchett7048]

I have A Armorlite 308 heavy barrel stainless steel and I have taken five hogs in a single setting I love that it

[@greasydot]

It's all about placement of the bullet. I have killed pretty near everything that walks or slithered in Texas with a 222 remington and a 52 grain hollow point. Wouldn't shoot an elk or a moose with it though.

[@fedup3582]

I believe Remington loaded "hog hammer" ammo. I have Remington 30-30 ammo labeled "hog hammer " on the box. It is loaded with barnes 150 gr TSX bullets. I'm not sure but I believe they loaded other calibers with barnes and labelled them "hog hammer " also. The 308 at least, I believe.

[@jerrymartin5100]

260 Remington is my go to.

[@MrTacklebury]

The new 350 Legend AR would be perfect for pigs. I have a .450 Bushmaster currently.

[@leonharris1329]

Also 300 rcm and the wonderful 338rcm

[@JAKDRZR]

I love how people think you need a cannon for elk. Lol. 😂😂

[@jfess1911]

The 308 has the same throat and chamber geometry used in modern cartridges, and that has helped with its reputation for accuracy. Many older cartridges like the 30-06, 270 and 280 don't have the cylindrical "freebore" area that helps align bullets in front of the funnel-like taper that narrows down to the rifling. The "match" 308 chambers shrink the diameter of the freebore to make a tighter fit and do a better job of aligning the bullet. Some "match" chambers even change the length of the freebore section to get max accuracy with a particular bullet.

[@CircleBrewery]

308 equals available components to reload still fairly inexpensive and available on store shelves … like it or not it’s there to be had In these strange times

[@trapperbobpatriot8288]

My off the rack rugar 77 will one hole all day long at 100 yards with my hand load. Only a few inch spread at 200

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

Patriot, I appreciate your enthusiasm for your Ruger M77 308, I really do, but in the interest of accuracy, we should note that the world's record benchrest target shot at 100 yards was slightly larger than one hole. It was one ragged hole, and that might be what you're getting. By the way, a 1/2" group at 100 would spread to 1" at 200, 2" at 300, etc. Regardless, that is superb hunting rifle precision. You've got yourself a keep in that Ruger. Congrats!

[@MoxieFirearms]

What about the 350 Legend for Hog hunting?

[@williamjordan5414]

If those cases that headspace off the case neck are trimmed too short, will that keep the firing pin from striking the primer hard enough to ignite it?

[@66smithra]

Certainly.

[@goinhot9133]

You tighten clearances, tolerances are a range

[@timhatchett7048]

People may not believe I’ve killed hogs when I was a kid with 22 long rifle and 22 magnum. On my 308 I usually use Hornady I think you’re called interlock

[@PBVader]

Yep, interlocks and set about the same, reliable on game. Side note, thats what 22s and 2x4s are for. No one will believe it till you show them.

[@sylviajones3355]

Look up James Gilliland. He used a 7.62 NATO, virtually the same as .308.

[@sboy1955]

Better cartridges than 308?: “yep” but marginally; “no” when the others aren’t available or affordable. The 308 is solid performer and a wise caliber to own in tough times.

[@tommcqueen3145]

👍

[@shootingatshadow]

AR-15 in 6.8SPC suppressed with a thermion pulsar infrared scope. That's been a very effective tool for pigs.

[@2punish1]

What is the maximum effective range for hunting deer and hogs with the 450 Bushmaster?

[@powerbagle]

How far can you shoot? 1000 ft.lbs. is the minimum standard for deer. Looks like most loads drop below that at 250 yards, and it you have to account for some drop at that point.

[@thegreatwhitehunter105]

Would the higher BC values of the available 300 PRC flatten, or extend, the MPBR compared to the .300 WM/.300 WSM, and reduce wind drift on sub 400 yd shots, or is it too close to matter?

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

You won't see significant gain in MPBR, but a slight reduction in wind deflection. Not enough to fret over at 400 yards, though.

[@william16845]

The 308 is very accurate,,the problem is you gotta find that perfect match round that your rifle likes,, Federal gold medal match is a great place to start,,but to really get the best the 308 has to offer you gotta reload..if your barrel has 1/12 twist then you can find a light fast varmint or deer round that'll get the job done from 0to300 400is yards usually 110 to 168.. my 1in 10 twis will shoot everything from 168 to 208..but a good 168 SMK or 175smk gets nickel size groups at 100yards easy..the newer sierra SMK-CN have treated me well also..

[@wiregrassga]

I've owned 4 .30-06 rifles and 2 .308 rifles. By far the most accurate is a Ruger 77 I purchased in 1981 which will consistently group 3 shots into a half inch with it's favorite handload. The least accurate is another Ruger 77 purchased in 2006 that is plenty accurate for hunting but is no tack driver.

[@davidorpwood8433]

THE reason I GOT A 300.RUM , was the fact the 30.06 was found to be a Needmoor not enough punch on real big boars . had taken 245lb & 250 lb gutted boars

[@hulley5223]

Thanks for answering my question Ron, but my question about the 7mm PRC was intended to highlight Hornady's uncanny ability to market their cartridges as being more than they are, and as a result, able to get rifle manufacturers to adopt them in mass. 6.5 and 300 PRC don't do anything in terms of performance that older cartridges do; nevertheless, they are all the rage right now. That's why I think 7mm PRC could push cartridges like 7mmSAUM and 7mmWSM into extinction.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Yes, I think you're right. Hornady has the formula that really seems to work. Can't fault their cartridge design, either.

[@kylemartin832]

The 7 PRC in my opinion is going to be a huge hit for a few reasons. It's the perfect mix of power and efficiency. The 7mm rem mag isn't twisted enough usually 1-9.5. The 28 Nosler is too overbored. The 6.5 PRC is a little small for elk. The 300s have lots of recoil. The 7 PRC answers all this with 100 extra fps over the rem mag and a 1-8 twist. Not as overbored as the 28 nos. Plenty of power for elk with less recoil than the 300s. I'm all about better mouse traps.

[@Dale37]

It amazes me how the .308 has succeeded all of these years and now people want to say it is inferior to the 7mm-08, 6.5 creedmoor and some other short action rounds. It just goes to show how good the cartridge is for all of these debates to be surrounded by it. Everyone is intitled to their own opinion and choose whatever cartridges they want. I do look forward to the day where these conversations will shift over to something else. KZbin is flooded by .xxxx vs .308, here is why .xxxx is better then the .308, here is why you should moose hunt with a 6.5 creedmoor. LOL

[@patrickgallagher4344]

The 6.5x55 Swede which is no different from the creedmoor has been killing moose long before the 308 has been around!!! lol 😂

[@Dale37]

48.8 mm case length for the Creedmoor and 55 mm case length for the Swede is not the same thing. I get your point though, even if you did insult the Swede. No amount of convincing will get me to take my creedmoor over my .35 whelen elk hunting. I know a creedmoor can do the job, I just would rather have the extra punch when spending the money to hunt out of State.

[@fedup3582]

@@patrickgallagher4344 and now they are fast moving to the 308 and 9.3x62 for moose, abandoning the 6.5x55.

[@patrickgallagher4344]

@@fedup3582 state your sorce facts please not opinion!

[@fedup3582]

@@patrickgallagher4344 don't take my word for it, google it yourself. The 308 and 9.3-62 are gaining popularity for moose over the 6.5x55. It is not my opinion.

[@donaldrussell4218]

300 WSM GOO ONE

[@danieltustison822]

Now Ron you need look at the assault lever action guns for hogs 😂

[@sandraslutz9489]

Absolutely the 308 is super accurate.

[@timhatchett7048]

I’ve got a Winchester model 100 and a model of 88 284 I don’t have it with them I collect guns the model 100 is like new been offered a lot for it I inherited it not for sale I have too many other guns to Hunt with.

[@talanhuntingandfishing5087]

Do the 308 on hunting

[@NivixHype]

I’ve been having an extremely gloriously stupid idea of doing a wildcat. Necking down a 300WM to 6mm and just seeing what velocities and accuracy I can get

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

H&H in England necked their 375 H&H to .244 and reached 3,397 fps with 105-gr. bullet. The 6mm Atlas wildcat was a necked down 264 Win Mag, so same basic case as the 300 WM. Ackley's book gave it 3,760 fps with a 100 gr. Both are way overbore, inefficient barrel burners.

[@dr.froghopper6711]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors that .264 Win Mag was a sweet shooter . As a teenager, I had a boss who shot one regularly. I don’t know what bullets he used as this was in 1974. I was amazed at his shooting but didn’t pay attention to details.

[@NivixHype]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors ok thank you. I did not know this. I figured it would be a barrel burner. Who knows still might do it just to do it

[@barrymantei7795]

Sounds like a 500 rd. Barrel burner.

[@joquin4618]

Dang

[@kevincolonel3070]

My friend brought his 300 blackout yo Texas for a hog hunt and our guide asked him not to use it. Said he has seen more hogs lost to this round due to poor terminal performance. Personally I use my 30-30 and it does the job well.

[@danielcurtis1434]

Every rimless straight walled cartridge has headspaced off the mouth since the 1880s!!! I think this is a question from someone who only shoots long guns???

[@66smithra]

Were there any rimless cartridges in the 1880?

[@charlessexton1719]

With all the talk about all the 6.5 calibers. Why are mone of them compared to the 6.5x52 Carcano?

[@LRRPFco52]

6.5x52 Carcano bore diameter is 0.268", whereas the 6.5x55 Mauser, 6.5x54 M-S, and 6.5x50 Arisaka are all 0.264". The most popularity related to 6.5 Carcano is of course the Kennedy assassination, even though the actual rifle recovered in the School Book Depository was a 7.65 Mauser, as witnessed and described in multiple sworn affidavits by Dallas PD investigators and officers who recovered it and read the markings on the barreled action. All but one recanted their sworn affidavits later on. The Dallas PD officer who refused to change his affidavit was kicked off the force and later killed himself, after multiple attempts on his life throughout the 1960s and early 1970s.

[@drdes9609]

Watched a KZbin video his professional hog hunter recommended shooting them In the neck. Seemed to work very well.

[@garysmith3913]

Ron says the .308 plays out at about 600 yards. How many hunters have any business ethically shooting at that distance, let alone 800-1000 yards? I cringe when these distances are mentioned.

[@thomasdodd4462]

I agree that the .308 is not enough juice for ethical long range hunting

[@ryanehlis426]

6 mm ppc

[@duck-n-cover477]

Just get a .308 Creedmoor...has more magic marketing pixie dust than a .308 Win. Everybody knows what Hornady's Creedmoor marketing budget did for the 260 Remington.

[@prestonmonaghan499]

What about a 30/06

[@allenkeskinen6174]

6.5 Grendel is a great round for hog. The bullet doesn’t need to be big.

[@danielcurtis1434]

So you get beyond .308 ballistics (1000 yard capable)with 1/3 to 1/2 the recoil, 50% more kinetic energy than .223…need I say more???

[@joquin4618]

Ive heard Magazines kinda suck for 6.5 grendel out of a AR. I guess ppl had good luck with duramag….. I just wish the 6.5 grendel was a bit more ubiquitous like the .308!! What does it for me is not the less recoil (shooting .308 suppressed out of a dialed in AR10 is 👌nice) but cutting down the rifle and ammo weight by at least 30%-50% depending on your set up 😏

[@LRRPFco52]

@@joquin4618 I've been shooting Grendel in pretty high volume since 2009. There were some ASC mags that should never have been made back in 2008-2010, but I've had great results with CProducts, Elander, and now Amend2 polymer mags through all barrel lengths and gas system lengths. My primary Grendel for the past few years has been my 12" suppressed. I have 22", 3x 18", 16", 2x 12", and 10.5". Haven't even built the 10.5" yet, since it needs its own can. I have moving boxes full of brass, much of it that has been reloaded 2-5x. You would not believe how fast you can transition from 200yd, 300yd, 400, 500, out to 800yds with a little 12" Grendel on steel. It's just really fun.

[@jamescole8049]

With my precision rifle and regular M 80 ball ammo I can’t get more than a 2.5 MOA group. With my match hand loads I get .5 MOA. Any decent rifle is accurate with good ammo. I don’t believe 308 is any better or worse then anything else.

[@fredbalster3100]

Do they ever use shotgun slugs in Africa?

[@drocfox9771]

More accurate?? Than what??

[@theangrycanuck8331]

@@FranzAntonMesmer Hey those are pretty accurate

[@DinoNucci]

Three Oh Hate ftw.

[@DinoNucci]

Truth

[@johngetz8585]

Ron, they keep making advancements in bullets and cartridges and all components actually? But I think the average shooter today is not nearly as proficient as they were 30 40 50 years ago? Not as many guys taking up the shooting sports? So it's actually the shooter that's the weakest link as most any reasonable person will conclude? All these technological advancements, and guys become complacent thinking the cartridge will do it for them? In the end, it ain't the arrow, it's the Indian...

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

yes, John, it is always "the Indian," but I'm not convinced today's shooters are less proficient than last generations. In fact, just the opposite. Because hunting is more expensive and game/land less available, most young shooters are training and target shooting more than my generation ever did. They study and practice and learn the ins and outs of ballistics the way few up us ever did in the 1960s and 70s. On average our rifles, scopes and ammo are more precise and accurate, too. But study and training remain essential.

[@johngetz8585]

Ron, I sure hope you're right? I've been a range instructor for a lot of years here in central pennsylvania. As you well know, a massive rifle hunting state. Game laws have become ridiculous as have bag limits? But what I see at the shooting matches, DCM and otherwise are much less attended? The serious rifle cranks are always there, but the abysmal performance of most Shooters is off the richter? I just shake my head.... we are pushing as hard as ever in both the high power and small bore leagues. Even air rifle to keep youth interested? The modern day gaming age has taken its toll. I'm a mega supporter of the shooting sports. And I do appreciate your comments and your videos. Thanks..