Room Acoustics Summary and General Placement Guidelines

[@jeffjefferson7384]

Fantastic. This series is basically giving us an entire course on HT acoustics. Wonderful stuff.

[@jelly.1899]

Watched all of the episodes in the last 3 days - it's awesome!👍 Please do a "REW in depth with Grimani"

[@NathanielOfLight]

This would be amazing!!

[@StewartMarkley]

Really liking these videos guys. Makes me feel lucky that I built my stereo room back in the 1970s using the Live End Dead End (LEDE) technique that was the cutting edge acoustics at the time and were used in some of the recording studios that I worked in. Much much simpler than home theater rooms.

[@SquidkidMega]

This stuff is gold, Jerry, gold

[@tictocdoc6958]

I agree. These 3 person videos are fantastic.

[@APSuk2]

I look forward to hearing how Anthony treats rooms with multiple rows of seats as there is not that much widely available info out there on the subject. Thanks so much for making this video series it really is a goldmine of useful information on how to treat your room.

[@adamjj85]

Another great session and +1 for a session on multiple rows. Would love to hear how Anthony approaches that design.

[@sookhiangoo1330]

awesome info and thank you very much Anthony for sharing. If we get REW with Anthony it would knock out of the ballpark 🙏🙏👍

[@Canadian_Eh_I]

Please keep this up, loving the show guys !!

[@jonwatchesnyc8777]

Just an additional thank you for this amazing series of talks - it’s been just amazingly informative and fun. Best - Jonathan

[@JM-xe1ts]

THANK YOU for bringing this series to us, Gene. THANK YOU for sharing all your wisdom, Anthony! And practical real-world experience, all!! I just got into some acoustic treatments for our HT and after listening to the first couple of talks in this series I am grateful I didn’t do a big “kit” purchase and over-damp our 14’x17’x8’ room (screen is setup on the long-side wall). You have helped me understand WHERE to begin, WHAT to listen for, and Where to treat - love Anthony’s advice about psychoacoustic asymmetry, btw - and What to MEASURE. Looking forward to learning the REW tool and where da bass is/is not, etc. Already, just using the setup menu and tone generator built into my Onkyo AVR I hear (and can better visualize) why my single-sub setup makes BIG bass in the front stage, where the sub is located, even-sounding bass mid-way, and acceptable but audibly lower bass at most of the seating positions, 3’ forward from the back wall. Being in a basement room, the concrete foundation walls are actually ~20’x20’ on three sides (there’s a utility room behind the screen-wall that doubles as a wiring access room but presents its own noise problems which I’ve largely damped with Rockwool and that made a huge difference) so getting those low-bass waves under control is a challenge. Now I know how. Btw, quick DIY tip for those with some extra Rockwool on-hand: one can make some crude but effective portable traps by purchasing a few “body-pillow” pillow cases and slipping one over each batt of 2’x4’x4” Rockwool. Don’t try two, unless you have a large plastic bag to first put them in, or you will have a mess. Now I type that, will try the technique and try covering from the open end of the plastic bag, so I can pull it out after so as not to create a big, soft reflector membrane. Keep the knowledge coming, gents! Cheers!!

[@FellOnMyKeys]

Greetings Gene "Two Subs" DellaSala, Don "HD" Dunn, and Anthony "Guru" Grimani! Loving these shows guys! Keep up the great work

[@erics.4113]

Great stuff gentlemen. Even if I only absorb 15% of your knowledge, it is still a wealth of information to help me build my 2channel room

[@matthewforrest7660]

Amazing info guys learning so much I second some one else post, An hour on REW would be awesome 😃

[@bloodcarver913]

Thx Anthony! I have watched most of the info and videos you have released over the years, very informative. Also used your way of thinking when I built my 73m2 HTR some years ago. Works perfectly, also in the deep bass.

[@brianchristopher4666]

Anthony Grimani saying he judges by ear must really drive Mr measurements himself, Mean gene crazy!! It also says a lot of this is up to interpretation and opinion, beyond the science of measurements and theory! But , yes, I agree with Anthony in that your ears will adjust a lot to your room but, ultimately, your own listening and judgment ultimately have to decide when things are "right" or acceptably good

[@sammyh2708]

So much learnt here !! Brilliant 👌

[@Raritytuber]

Super nice video! Especially the placement part was useful. But what about the front wall?

[@markym3870]

I think these videos are a fantastic addition and have taken Audioholics to another level with regards high end audio and home cinema. However I do have to say that I am British and think 'surrender' was quite insulting although I guess we are now semi-european in the politcal world. Both my British grandfather and my Polish grandfather fought hard in the second world war with the Allied Forces and of course we won and didn't surrender. Quite an un-intellectual comment to make (even as a joke) for intelligent developed people which in my mind brought the professional knowledgeable tone down a lot.

[@themoistgreenorganic]

Yeah, Commie-fornia? Just a low class comment.

[@L3x4Pr0ne]

Dang this was a good video. So much content. Love it.

[@ghostrecon3214]

Thank you so much for this information fellas!

[@jamie8097]

Thanks for sharing!

[@BojanPetrovicvft]

We want more. And if you run out of topics then invent, make something up but keep talking🙏 I would watch a video themed " How those two pidgeons on the fence outside affect room acoustics" and do we then need to put two of them on the opposite side of backyard to maintain parallel surfaces 😉

[@TClintonF1]

Thanks for sharing your years of experience with us! I’m like many people in that I’m anxious to begin treating my room myself but am having trouble with the SUBSTANTIAL differences in following your advice (which I’m estimating would cost between $3000-8000) and what Dennis Foley of Acoustic Fields is recommending (which would cost $20,000-$30,000)! My room is a dedicated Home Theater/listening room that is 14.5’ W x 23.5’ D x 10’ ceiling. I’m guessing most people’s rooms are even smaller? His method would take up a HUGH amount of space as well and just seems FAR beyond what 99% of people would be willing to do? I realize there are those that price is no object.

[@Audioholics]

Be very careful with recommendations from that company. I've seen their content on youtube, and it often doesn't align with the best practices in acoustics or subwoofer placement.

[@woohunter1]

I know this is an old post, but try not to overthink it. I like to have a little bit of “lively-ness” to my room which is almost the same size as yours. It depends on your tastes, type of speakers, amps, etc. I have open rafters in my basement room, walls are fully insulated, only one small window, cement slab with laminate flooring, a large area rug, a big bulky couch, love seat, and 1 recliner. I have no treatment at all except for a home made bass trap in one corner. I ran REW and have a MINI dsp, and multiple subs. I’m very happy with how everything sounds. It’s not 100% accurate by choice, I like to run my bass and LFE a little on the hot side.

[@Johnlennonjohtaja]

Fantastic video again! 🎉 btw, maby you know cos nobody else hasn’t. I have HH resonator and it only do moore null when I put it place where is most pressure? Another room it works how I want and it fix the null..😮

[@mariuszmackowski1772]

What about up-firing Atmos speakers, how should we treat ceiling to not absorb something that should be reflected?

[@mikegeorge9413]

Anthony, emailed and called SonitisUSA but the phone doesn’t answer and the Sales Manager doesn’t respond. When will they get some more product in?

[@ghostrecon3214]

Now I have the knowledge of how much I need, now the question is as far as diffusers, how do we find good broad spectrum diffusers? I don't want something that diffuses only a few key frequencies. I guess the same could be said for absorbers. Thanks Gene and gang!

[@cpt.hindsight]

Great work, thanks for sharing👍 All 9000 tastebuds moment at 49:47😜

[@Canadian_Eh_I]

The average size of a bedroom in the US is 11 x 12 or 132 square feet. Please do a breakdown on everything you can do acoustically for a room this size on your next show !

[@erics.4113]

Don't listen to music with lots of bass freq around 40Hz I'm in room mode hell with a room that size

[@stackoverflow8260]

You can use a dsp or an eq to adjust. Send pink noise and use eq to flatten. Dsp can do it better though..

[@xclavo3]

ANTHONY GRIMANI!

[@niklasxl]

i really like how Anthony shits on imperial units every now and then :D

[@exclusivelynyc]

Always great advice from you guys. Thanks for sharing. Do you guys have the formula for the base trap riser and maybe some picks of some completed absorbtion perforated risers?

[@jebo4jc]

Thanks for these videos

[@excxflyr]

Great info, thanks!

[@Stephendohringphotographer]

Fantastic info however could anyone give me tips for a front stage that is not behind and AT screen but towers on the floor. Just bass traps or anything behind the RL and near the center?

[@EumirBethbeder]

Great share , guys!!!!

[@ChannelBri]

Great info (as always)! Thanks

[@dennisrkb]

Where do you place diffusers if any? What do you think of the "dead backwall" mantra?

[@astroporpoise7802]

Hi Gene, has Anthony swayed you on the asymmetrical layout? If so, what convinced you it's the better approach? Thanks!

[@Audioholics]

No. I have my side wall treatments mostly symmetrical. I didn't change it bc the imaging is so fantastic as is.

[@Nightjar726]

Which speakers was Don referring to when he said “ the revels were disappointing”? The Performa BE ones you have Gene?

[@landocycle]

I’m surprised how lively/untreated the front wall is, actually. Would one still use this lively/untreated approach when placing speakers behind an AT screen?

[@jimmykaka89]

44:27 what did Anthony say sensaroundaroundasound?!!!

[@Tearial311]

My HT is in my basement and I have a metal pole next to my seating area, 4”. What should I do about that? Box it in? Ignore it? Wrap it in something? Thanks!!!

[@woohunter1]

Just curious, I’m in the same boat, what did you end up doing?

[@marjen11]

How does adding insulation behind a screen wall effect the calculatiOns? I have fiberglass insulation covering the entire wall behind my screen and fabric. So it’s more than 15%

[@danielhouse2895]

My Speaekers are 31 inches from front wall. Should I put absorbstion behind them?

[@johnpoo1662]

Would be more convincing if they presented measurements showing how adding each stage of treatment (diffuser, absorber, etc) progressively improves the frequency response, especially seat-to-seat delta.

[@erics.4113]

Are you not convinced that you can change a room's acoustics?

[@johnpoo1662]

@@erics.4113 sure. but let's quantify it rather than assume it improves things theoretically.

[@erics.4113]

@@johnpoo1662 I agree that you need to measure and quantify a specific room. Specific being the case. But sound acoustics is a theory as much as general relativity is a theory. Gravity works right? Acoustics work too. If you don't think your room impacts anything, then remove it. Take your speakers to an open outside space and set them up. Note the differences between that and inside your room. So somewhere in all that means that you have a room that you put your speakers in. And those speakers will produce sound and the room will also interact with that sound and either constructively or destructively act upon those sound waves. What the desired outcome is could be part science, part preferences and partly down to compromises that you'll ultimately have to make. All depends what you're trying to do. But convinced you should be. Whether you're convinced that you need to do anything is the only subjective part.

[@johnpoo1662]

@@erics.4113 ​ @Eric S. I understand what youre saying. In the end it comes down to how good it sounds to you. All I am saying is it would be the icing on the cake to see how each acoustic treatment affects the measured response. I know it is tedious, but these guys love acoustics so it would go a long way. Not everyone can build a home theatre from scratch, most of us need to just accept the flaws of the listening environment, and just attempt to make it better. Some measurements will let normal folk see when the law of diminishing returns kicks in :p

[@erics.4113]

@@johnpoo1662 that's a fair point. I don't think treatment would show massive gains in every situation though. In others I would call it critical. So the posting results may be less useful if you started with a worst case scenario and set out to demonstrate how treatment solved the problems. I would add if they start with an empty room and measure, it will be a total mess. Just like when you move into a house with empty rooms and everything flutters and echoes. Treatment before and after measurements would show massive improvements. To your point, so would big couches, chairs, carpet, drapes, tables, bookcases and everything else that might be in there. So what would comprise a typical domestic setup and would treatment beyond that show big gains? Those are the big variables. I have a small 10x14 dedicated listening room that only has a single chair and the stereo gear. Without treatment, the room has quite a few large problems, most notably a room mode around 40Hz where the bass is easily +10db in that range and it's difficult to treat below 60Hz. My bare walls also created reflections that made intelligibility of music difficult. When the room was packed with stuff, I could easily hear lyrics, and when I emptied the room it was muddy and significantly less clear. If you're unsure what you may gain from treatment, I'd suggest starting with a modest investment (about $80) for a measuring mic and use REW software which is free to take measurements of your room. From there you can share the measurements and get others feedback on what kind of realistic improvements you could expect for your particular situation, and what cost outlay that could be. If anything, the mic can confirm your current speaker placement is ideal, or that you could try additional placement and configuration to improve there first. There is definitely no simple answer here and that's probably the reason that a seasoned expert like Anthony wouldn't speak generally about improvements. A case study would be interesting, but still would only apply to that specific case.

[@MattyDante]

Would I be doing myself a disservice by having the positions of my 3D diffusers and absorbers inversed along my back wall? If so, what would be the effect? (Ie, Mr. Grimani suggests having absorption in the middle of the back wall and 3D diffusers off to the sides on the back wall, what would happen if I had 3D diffusers in the middle of the back wall and absorption off to the sides of the back wall). Thank you!

[@Audioholics]

Diffusion on the backwall is fine if your seats are at least 4ft from the panels. Otherwise do absorption.

[@MattyDante]

@@Audioholics Gene, you are a rockstar. Thank you man. But why 4' specifically?

[@Audioholics]

@Matt H its a rule of thumb. If you have diffusion too close to your ears it can sound phasey.

[@MattyDante]

@@Audioholics I'll play around with it, I'm a few feet past 4' on that back wall so I'll try it both ways. Thank you again my friend! Hope you're having a great weekend.

[@edstar83]

Catalonia is in Spain. There are many regions in Spain with their own language and culture. I'm Galician heritage.

[@m4r5]

Well here is a question for all of you... I live in a 400 yrs old stone House and i want to use one of the rooms as a Home Studio ... Therefore i need acoustic treatments for it.. how so i place basstraps in the corners without getting mold between the stonewall and the treatments? Is an air gap of e.g. 10cm enough to prevent it from mold? Sry for the noobie question.

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

if your house grows mold on objects in corners, then you need to get that handled by a professional

[@SwirlingDragonMist]

Way betta!

[@howardskeivys4184]

Room correction, acoustic treatment, can change the way your hifi interacts with your room. That change may not represent improvement. Improvement is a matter of personal taste. In the same way that some may choose a more lively speaker whilst others prefer a more neutral tonal quality and then there the ‘bass heads’. My hifi has to fight for its right to be in our family lounge. I have to try hard to achieve ultimate audio performance balanced against room aesthetics and the approval of the aesthetics committee, AKA, the wife. For audiophiles in the same boat as me and I suspect they are plentiful, the carpeting, curtains, cushions, sofas and other soft furnishings, should be more than sufficient to maintain RT levels with in acceptable limits. Ok, if you are fortunate enough to have a dedicated listening room. 19 by 32 by 11 feet, housing just your hifi, your listening chair and a beer fridge, then room treatment may be your friend. I don’t have the money or time to do this, but i issue this challenge:- start with a blank canvas, an empty listening room. Set up your hifi and listening chair, then employ electronic room correction. Then take the same room, the same hi, and the same chair and employ professional room treatment. Once the treatment is complete, see whether your electronic correction will still make a difference .

[@60zeller]

These videos are a great advertisement..... For headphones

[@Audioholics]

😆 🤣

[@IvanToman]

Cube root = power to 1/3, mr. mathematician :)

[@Espiritiv]

cube root =x^(1/3) or 3Root(x).

[@johndavis16]

Gargamel 🤣 Took me back to my childhood watching the Smurfs

[@turnoverace6796]

Darn tryed to stay up for the live show but after the svs micro 3000 live show my brain was like gello

[@drewneilson9157]

33:21 Did two audioholics just call another audioholic a dork? Pot, meet kettle. 😆

[@donaldpump1282]

havent been this bored since math in school

[@ColocasiaCorm]

if client insists on sitting on rear wall, put an in-wall sub right behind listener's head.. problem solved.

[@Best420Saarn]

wtf is "original medical grade in ear headphones" he was mentioning in the begining?

[@W4YN0T]

I'm 3 minutes in, and I can't stand this feedback!

[@sammassam100]

The Group perspective leads to bulk production quality. naah!! not for serious listeners. Standard is live music so no considerable sound should come from anywhere other than speakers.

[@JohnSmith-qi6co]

RPN cube root. do y to the x where x is .33333

[@turnoverace6796]

The Cave man used straw and grass in his cave to defuse cave woman nagging

[@wa2368]

Lol

[@chriswhite8717]

Commiefornia 😂😂😂 For real!

[@mesonto]

Yep, never heard that one before, laughed pretty hard. It was my comic relief during this information packed video

[@mkhaudio]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qX2zmH-bqKZ8Zs0

[@listeningto8371]

oh Anthony, segfried must be laughing

[@rusedgin]

French didn't invent wine and cheese... 😤 And Catalunha is in Spain!!!

[@haknys]

They probably did not invent the metric system either.

[@OG_G4m3r]

Commiefornia 🤣🤣

[@andysummers485]

anthony grimani, Boooring I feel asleep then switched it off I find the guy boring always talks the same rubbish and trying to sell his snake oil acoustics

[@Canadian_Eh_I]

lol how is acoustics snake oil? Its literally the opposite. Most salesman are pushing expensive gear that costs way more than treatment which he tells you how to do for FREE. like wtf dude are you trolling? lol good one...

[@ColocasiaCorm]

@@Canadian_Eh_I does your gear cost more than room treatment? Calculate the amount of treatment youd need at $1000 per membrane bass trap and let us know how much your speakers cost

[@Canadian_Eh_I]

@@ColocasiaCorm My gear is worth about $20-$30k. My treatments were all built by me and cost about $300. Very effective too

[@ColocasiaCorm]

@@Canadian_Eh_I i believe u

[@Canadian_Eh_I]

@@ColocasiaCorm Just insulation and wood frames, covered in mattress toppers. I built 3 huge kerfed diffusers and a bunch of 3d qrd diffusers too out of 2x2. They rock

[@r2d3vadar92]

Gene Excellent Content - very helpful in giving us ideas to think outside the box ...and I wish I good afford complete treatment, which leads me to this Question: Do you all remember the 70's and 80's especially - golden era of hifi? Do you remember what most advertisements and peoples actual rooms with their HiFI systems looked like? Not One Pieced Of Acoustic Treatment aside form the fluffy big pile rugs and furniture. Even Speaker placement did not go past spacing your speaker out let alone knowing to pull them out from the front wall for soundstage - yet Macs/Acuphase/Luxman/JBL........and people loved their hifi home systems until....someones came along as said : treat your living space like a recording studio for good sound.....? Just Saying.