Rotation in trills- what it can do and what it CAN'T do!

[@peKarim]

good advice, thank you!

[@cziffra1980]

Thanks, do follow for plenty more videos like this.

[@JSB2500]

I know a very old Steinway B that without axial forearm rotation fights you horribly with trills, and with it, it doesn't. The effect is much worse in the bottom few octaves, and not an issue at the pitches you are using here, so I think the hammer mass is a key factor. Crucially, I'm fairly sure that the rotation does not have to drive the key all the way down directly. IIRC, it accelerates the hand, which then strikes the key (via the finger), which then accelerates the hammer off to the strings - before the key has moved much! Maybe that's what people mean by internalise? There as a short impulse, but not obvious? It's a very noticeable effect. Unlike your piano here (which I think has a very different action), with this old Steinway B you cannot trill fast without some sort of key strike. Pressing isn't an option - the energy required is just too high (and I've got very strong hands indeed - confirmed by measurement). All this is provisional. I hope to do some recording sessions on that piano soon, and if I get time I'll try to explore this rotation-trill issue while I'm there. I'm pretty certain you can't see the pianist doing it - it's that subtle - hence why it took me so long to discover it. I was very frustrated when I first played that piano! In case it means anything to you: the piano I'm talking about used to be played by concert pianist John Bingham, Sheffield and London, famous for his weight transfer legato touch. I suspect that nothing teaches that technique better than that particular piano! 😄

[@cziffra1980]

If we were talking about a slow tempo and very high amplitude movements (starting with the finger above the key) then it's credible that you could throw the fingers out after the rotational movement stops. The principle would be like cracking a whip. A smaller input movement gets amplified at the output end. In a concise and rapid movement, it wouldnt make any sense however. That would be like cracking a whip repeatedly at a high speed. The whole principle is built on a really major time lag between input and output. And it's all the less credible here. Aside from the time lag before it could cause finger to unravel (requiring a throw from above the keys) then it would be need to produce enough force not only to unravel the finger but also to overcome the resistance of the key while doing so. This can't rationally happen at all without the movement up and off the key between. The resistance would not let the finger tip even get started with movement coming from far back in the arm unless you get that full amplitude of rotation. And the larger the key resistance, the less credible it becomes. At the very least, the run up action would need to throw the finger a notable distance to gather speed before reaching the key. My own piano has very high resistance by the way. The common view seems to be that more resistance needs more arm force. I've made that mistake far too much and worked harder for it. It I stiffened my arm that would be terrible. But literally trying to use the arm to drive the keys is the most likely to cause stress. It has an important role but a completely different one. It's specifically because my piano is quite so heavy that I believe I've had no choice but to get the different roles very clear. I can get away with things on a light piano that simply won't go anywhere on this heavier action.

[@cziffra1980]

By the way, I can fully believe that someone with excellent technique can feel as if they put more arm in while playing a heavy piano. When fingers move well, the arm feels a real connection even though it's not the true instigator of the finger movement. However, in my case I came with poor finger technique and my instincts literally tried to use arm energy for the shortfall. The results have been pretty disastrous at times and it's always a very different role of the arm I need to attend to, in order to truly deal with larger key resistance. It's equally disastrous for me to resort to locking the arm or literally imagine using it to drive fast key movements. It's when my hand moves well and the arm is free that I can work safely and comfortably. With true arm energy, you get a large visible movements (if the fingers brace/collapse). When that doesn't happen, most of the movement is internally within the finger itself. Nobody should ever deny association to the arm, but it's not real to think the arm is literally sending the main energy in for that movement.

[@cziffra1980]

Also, to be honest, you frame it as if it's a binary between using rotation to drive the keys or simply having none? To be honest, that reduction of the options is the main thing I want to get away from. I wholly stress the importance of including rotation. I just think people should also be aware of the sheer risk of simplifying it to the idea that it's role is to literally propel the keys. I wouldn't either advise failing to rotate, nor using rotation to drive the keys. Rotate (in a role that only complements and frees finger movement) is what I advise. Not everyone feels it this way, but I'm confident that this is the most accurate description of what people really do at higher speeds.

[@cziffra1980]

By the way, it's very rare to need to trill especially fast in the low octaves. Are you simply doing slower trills with more active rotation? The slower the trill, the more credible it is that active rotation can be a more notable source of literal energy. However, for truly fast trills, the heavier the action, the more you truly need to get the fingers moving freely (with rotation in a different role) to get the speed going. This where literal substitution for the finger action is most likely to jam up.

[@waddledee3441]

first ❤