Why did Britain turn its Pattern 1853 rifle into a musket? With firearms expert Jonathan Ferguson

Following the Indian Rebellion of 1857-58, Britain was intent on preventing a repeat of its own Indian Sepoy troops rising up and fighting against British forces. One solution to this was to effectively 'nerf' the weapons they were issued. This India Pattern Musket is the product of the distrust that existed in colonial India at this time.
Subscribe to our channel for more videos about arms and armour
Help us bring history to life by supporting us here: royalarmouries.org/support-us...
Sign up to our museum membership scheme here: royalarmouries.org/support-us...
⚔Website: royalarmouries.org/home
⚔Blog: royalarmouries.org/stories/
⚔Facebook: / royalarmouriesmuseum
⚔Twitter: / royal_armouries
⚔ Instagram: / royalarmouriesmuseum
We are the Royal Armouries, the United Kingdom's national collection of arms and armour. Discover what goes on behind the scenes and watch our collection come to life. See combat demonstrations, experience jousting and meet our experts.
Have a question about arms and armour? Feel free to leave us a comment and we'll do our best to answer it.

[@18robsmith]

Fascinating how three guns can say so much about social attitudes more than 150 years ago.

[@036JH]

Favorite reason why I watch Jonathan, and Forgotten Weapons and Inrange. Describing the circumstances under which these weapons were developed is a fascinating window into the social, technological, political, and economical positions these countries were in.

[@leadpaintchips9461]

@@036JH It's a major part of why I'm interested in military history, specifically the weaponry used. There's only so much spin you can put on how weapons are.

[@slaughterround643]

You say that like we don't dominate parts of the world now like we did then.

[@coltonregal1797]

It's not really a social attitude, just a practical one. Reaming out the bore both provides a deterrent/disadvantage for a future mutiny, and solves the issue of cartridges greased with hog/beef fat by removing the need for grease altogether.

[@renngretsch]

Well I was not around over 150 years ago, but if I had been and there were people that I would have thought of as friendly, but it turned out that amongst them were a few that would have my wife and kids hacked at and thrown in a well to die, then I think going them a lesser weapon for when they face the vengeance is a very good idea.

[@bladesofseven]

A Jonathan video a day keeps the insanity at bay :D

[@fire_tower]

14:12 "Echos of an Empire" would make a great name for a book on colonial arms

[@felixthecat265]

Just for the record, the issuing of smoothbore versions of military rifles was continued in India even after independance. The arsenals were producing smoothbore .303 in .410 shotgun (which has the same base diamater as the .303) until fairly recently. They were typically used by Police, prison guard and security escorts who needed to be armed, but did not need the collateral damage of a full Ball round...

[@KeyserSoze23]

seems stupid really. A smooth bore will cause as much damage as a rifled round more or less just less accurate.

[@GaiusCaligula234]

@@KeyserSoze23 Less overpen, lad

[@felixthecat265]

@@KeyserSoze23 Not stupid at all. A smoothbore version of a miltiary rifle looks the same as a rifled version, and therefore is just as much of a threat to a potential agressor. It has however a significantly reduced range and is easy to defeat with rifled arms should the user decide to switch sides or have their gun stolen.

[@marmite8959]

​@@KeyserSoze23 a .410 shotgun blast will cause significantly less damage than .303 FMJ

[@Mulberry2000]

no it was not with a rifle you have better range, which gave British troops fair better accuracy over a musket armed troop.

[@Waldymachine]

Aaaah! here's me thinking I bought a "lemon" parts gun that was thrown together to resemble the real thing, turns out it's one of the smoothbore models issued to domestic troops! Thank you for sharing Jonathan, you've just cleared up one of the more confusing items in the collection. More interesting story to it than having an example of the issued rifle! Keep up the great content!

[@steriskyline4470]

Lovely piece of historical gear you have there! Congrats

[@dylancarson5641]

"Echos of empire" sounds like a game or book title .

[@peoplesauce]

I can't believe Johnathan personally nailed all those little metal placards onto all of those priceless relics D:

[@Payne427]

I loved how Johnathan says "Absolutely Horrendous". Love the videos good sir. Keep it up

[@austinwild6723]

As a Canadian who just graduated his Master's Degree in History at Queen's University, I would VERY much do anything in order to become an intern at Royal Armouries Museum. You are a treat for historical knowledge Mr Ferguson!

[@derekp2674]

Thanks Jonathan and team. It was really great to see those sealed patterns and learn about their history. Long ago, I was lucky enough to fire a few shots with an 1853 and it was definitely a fun experience.

[@rossflowers7038]

Great presentation. Love the sealed patterns

[@ManchuArrowLauncher]

Adjustable butt length is a great name for a band

[@Stevarooni]

Or a BBQ restaurant.

[@rootsandvulture]

Or a....or a.......nope can't think of anything

[@Stevarooni]

@@rootsandvulture A bespoke dress shop? 😁

[@loddude5706]

Ivor Longbottom's stage name . . .

[@julianshepherd2038]

If you can get a tiny torch and drop it down the spout then it would show the rifling beautifully.

[@iainbagnall4825]

or just use an illuminated USB bore scope, which costs less than $20

[@colonelsanders104]

With approved cartridges without pork grease. Guarented Sepoy approved since 1857. :)

[@calvingreene90]

Some Sepoy were Hindu so beef tallow was as bad or worse than lard.

[@Ukraineaissance2014]

They were believed to originally be greased with pig and cow fat. Thiugh this wasnt true it offended both the hindu and muslim soldiers.

[@corogast]

I always love learning new things from ya, Jonathan! :D

[@PURPLECATDUDE7734]

Your presentation style has tremendously improved over time

[@bigmal1690]

Yeah, he's got more used to it, I enjoy them very much but we all the the main star here are the guns, who here would not love to get a look around that place?

[@EddietheBastard]

Absolutely superb - historical context, practical explanation, not too patronising of those not well versed in weapons or history.

[@random22026]

Incredible. Your transparent, informative mini-lecture on this weaponry is absolutely essential viewing. Kudos. 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌👏👏👏👏👏

[@rasmussrensen2029]

Love this. I will be sure to visit the museum if go to the UK! ❤️

[@TheIrishGamerGuy]

This museum is on my bucket list. Used to love going to the Imperial War Museum in London as a kid and I never had the chance to go to Leeds. I now have a pretty good reason to XD

[@toddmoss1689]

Thank you Jonathan for another fascinating and thoroughly researched presentation. My bucket list includes visiting the Leeds museum along with catching a Leeds United football match. Can you sometime in the future talk about the Enfield P53’s export and use in other conflicts, including the American Civil War where it was widely used.

[@archer8492]

Very interesting. I know sod all about pre-WWI firearms so I'm always happy for you make more vids on the stuff you have from earlier eras.

[@paulbarthol8372]

The nailed on number tag is part of history; museum curating history. Like the seals and inscriptions, it is every part as important as part of that weapon. If you were going for pristine condition then you would remove the seals too.

[@matthaught4707]

"Clout" is a verb that isn't used nearly enough anymore.

[@tjoyce1971]

Hi Jonathan, you're awesome. I had a thought regarding the Irish Constabulary carbine, is it possible they left it smooth bore to give them the option of loading birdshot as a less lethal load? I believe I remember reading somewhere about Victorian police dispersing a crowd with birdshot.

[@briankelly8297]

I'm guessing a smooth bore can be loaded slightly quicker than a rifled barrel. That might add an advantage under pressure.

[@grahambamford9073]

A lot of RIC barracks were raided for there weapons back in the day. It wasn't uncommon for this to happen.

[@borjesvensson8661]

@@briankelly8297 that was the problem with rifled guns up till the minie bullet was invented. Loading a minie ball into a rifle should take the same time as a smoothbore.

[@Chiller01]

Those are amazing pieces.

[@paulrward]

And this is why so many people all over the world love the British so much.......

[@hobartw9770]

Beautiful pieces maybe I can get over there someday soon.

[@gerrypowell2748]

Interesting video👌

[@SafetyProMalta]

What a beauty..that P53

[@tommythearchaeologist]

Shout out to editor Jack getting his dig on yesterday doing some archaeology! 🤘😉

[@samparkerSAM]

Got a American Cousin! A P53 type 2 1855 Windsor Enfield ... the contract version made in Vermont, America, with confedrate import markings. Thank You for The book recommendation 😀

[@lindybeige]

What I have read tells me that while it was true that there was a rumour that the cartridges that triggered the Indian Mutiny were greased with animal fat, in actuality the cartridges were waxed. Can you cite a source that demonstrates that they were greased?

[@johnfisk811]

There were a whole host of Ordnance trials with a wax/tallow mix in various proportions. Eventually, some time into the rifle’s service, they settled on pure white beeswax alone. Wax and tallow had been the standard for rifles since the first Pattern rifle of 1776. In India contractors provided the animal fat to mix with beeswax but insufficient care was taken that they avoided beef or pork fats. Brunswicks were wax and tallow then changed to wax and linseed oil but the fire risk caused a final change to wax and coconut oil. Pattern 1853s, as above went to pure wax. In the post Mutiny investigations it was admitted that the cartridge greasing could have included beef and/or pork fats in error. The mutineers period charge that it was a deliberate action to break their caste status and change to Christianity was completely wrong. Always believe cock up before conspiracy is a sound precept even today.

[@robertstallard7836]

@@johnfisk811 Really good explanation. Agree 100%!

[@steriskyline4470]

Any news on your friend in Ukraine?

[@scrappydoo7887]

@@johnfisk811 excellent information 👍 thanks

[@samparkerSAM]

The P53 was the very first gun I ever fired, in Tennessee of all places. I was elected by my fellow cabin mates at summer camp on account of my archery 🏹 skills. It was a foggy morning in a hilly valley and I was invited to eat breakfast with the confedrate reenactors, they shared salt pork and grits. Afterwards we assembled on the lake side and attempted to shoot milk jugs dressed as turkeys at 75 yards... I surprisingly shot close and hit the wooden dock... the built put a hole through the 2" oak board bellow the intended target. For years I would swim across the lake and pry at the oak dock and plumb the depths around the piers looking for the mini balls fired that morning.

[@mikewilson631]

Interesting stuff. Do you have the link to the thesis?

[@George_M_]

The export T-72, rifle version.

[@TrainmanDan]

I once owned an ex-museum owned Snider that had their inventory number stamped into the butt. The stamping was not small either! Cheers, Dan.

[@michaeltelson9798]

I am fan of the Alan Quartermain series and wonder if you can do a video of the rifle from the first two books which was the actual only named gun in the series. A J. Purdy fowling piece with a single octagonal Barrel, quarter inch bore for percussion cap, 1835. Nipple for copper percussion caps weighing 5 lbs. 3 ounces

[@afuea-qg5yo]

shit has some sick iron sights

[@grahamhatton3201]

I have an 1856 dated example that was smooth bored for native usage. It retains the original back sight.

[@kaisersoze5236]

i have an 1855 rifle bored on my wall 👌

[@jimbevington420]

Please dont remove the nailled on number disc's. Its history. It may not be right but its happened; all it needs is explaining. Future generations will thank you.

[@jothegreek]

Amazing

[@bendyer551]

very interesting

[@krockpotbroccoli65]

I've got a minty, fully restored (by me) P41 Brunswick musket from Nepal (it is most certainly of English manudacture. I guess that the garbage powder they were using made the Brunswick rifles useless, so they just reamed the rifling out of the bores.

[@gitfoad8032]

Why would you remove the number plate when it's part of the palimpsest? Isn't that every bit as bad as nailing it on in the first place? It's like all the German made roof tiles in Dubrovnik from the repairs after their war, a layer of history.

[@danditto6145]

The Royal Irish Constabulary. Carbines are probably smoothbore, so they could be used with Buck and ball ammunition, which would be more effective with a mob and they would be used at less than 100 yards as there is no need to shoot 1,000 yards at a wagon train or large square of men in Ireland enforcing the law. It also opens up. The possibility of being able to use small birdshot on no -violent protestors. The U.S. had the same problem in the Phillipines and found smoothbore shotguns were liked and requested by their local constabulary.

[@Squarecycle_]

Is there a website where I could learn more about the 'brown bess' India pattern musket? I have a 1804 musket marked with EIC heart and Mortimer on the lock. I would really want to know where could it be used and by who. Thank you. Great video btw 👍

[@TJH1]

Wasn't a link to the thesis mentioned in the video going to be posted, please?

[@justacentrist4147]

You should leave the museum numbers in place. it's part of the guns history

[@cosmo9882]

Sorted, thank you

[@parrotraiser6541]

Interesting point some of the other commentators have made about shot loads. Paradoxically, rifling plays havoc with shot patterms, because the centrifugal force tends to fling the shot cloud apart in random directions. Anything you hit will be by chance, and very close.

[@glynwelshkarelian3489]

03.05 Use of the English term 'Clout'. A splendidly deep word for the act of hitting something (or someone) with force and resonance.

[@NERVNOTO]

mr.johnatan....i don't think you should fell awkward talking about your(british) colonial/imperial past.....we love watching your presentations down here in Macedonia even though your country (NATO) bombed us some 22 years ago....greatings from Yugoslavia

[@brendan1789]

The thesis was not left in the description. RIP.

[@glynwelshkarelian3489]

Any nailed, painted, or engraved, on museum mark is a mark of the historiography of the object. I have been trying to find out where Liverpool Museum's Mauser collection of 1961 went. It would be easier to find why '42' is the answer to everything.

[@Cheshire9k]

Anyone got any idea what is the first rifle on the rack on the right side of the screen?

[@broadstken]

I have one of the Nepalese made P-53's it has the proper ladder rear sight and the P-53 front sight but is also smoothbore. I assumed for the same reasons. Mine was issued to "Rifle Battalion, fourth section" and was gun no. 36 in their inventory according to the inscription on the trigger guard, and is serial number 296, so apparently very early production. If you have any of these in your collection I'd be interested to know more of their official history

[@borjesvensson8661]

Could it have been bored out after the bore got worn out?

[@broadstken]

@@borjesvensson8661 No, the bore diameter is correct, they were deliberately not rifled

[@13infbatt]

I have a .410 Isaphore Converted from a SMLE, I also have a box of a crimped .303 case with ball. Used by constabulary and prison guards . Still used today.

[@felixthecat265]

Not necessiarily converted.. many were made as smoothbore from the get go..

[@Tensquaremetreworkshop]

I have one of the P58s - but it is stamped (rather poorly) '1820' and underneath 'TOWER' on the lockplate, with a crown to the rear. No sign of it being a re-used lockplate - any ideas?

[@CaersethVarax]

"Come and see us" Say no more, fam. *Arrives in Leeds*

[@NomadShadow1]

Interesting

[@calvingreene90]

Now all is needed is rifled slugs to bring it full circle.

[@rcfokker1630]

You said that the rifling was very shallow ... but .656 is two millimetres larger than .577. So, it seems that the chosen bore of the Indian' Rifle is not simply the consequence of removing the rifling.

[@asorbus1966]

Reaming the bore to use a special, larger diameter cartridge is one of those bureacratic ideas that must have seemed better in theory than in actual practice. Having two different service cartridges to supply in far off India almost certainly resulted in the simplification of one bore, same cartridge solving the problem. The simplfied front sight on the P59 Musket also shows someone was thinking realisticly about how the guns were meant to be used: Volley fire by groups of men at short range.

[@pudgeboyardee32]

Using a ream, especially on long boring operations, requires a minimum amount of material removed that is larger than the tapered lead of the ream. If you try to ream less material out the tool will chatter, damaging the tool and the bore. The rifling actually makes it necessary to remove more material than you might otherwise have to because the difference in material depth, and therefore resistance, will make the chatter problem worse. Basically, the ream needs that millimeter of 'bite' on each side to run smoothly and not damage the barrel or the tools in use. I used to do drilling, boring, reaming and honing professionally and i very often used .577 drills to set up for a .656 ream operation. Its very standard, no pun intended.

[@peterclarke7240]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that, during the mass demobbing of soldiers following the end of WW1, the British government, fearful of all these military-trained working-class types coming ashore at the UK docks, that the guns of the naval boat were turned towards the docks in case of an insurrection. No idea if this is true, but if it is, it speaks volumes about how the British government KNEW they treated the very people they expected to die for their country like shit, but rather than change that, they'd rather kill them. Nothing much changes, either.

[@MrDrboomstick]

its true as faras chruchill pointed gunboats at striking transport workers in Liverpool. Also sent troops in that killed people. same old british establishment.

[@Chiller01]

Not to worry Herbert Hoover sent the US Army, commanded by Douglas MacArthur, against a demonstration of largely WW1 veterans protesting the delayed payment of a bonus promised to them some 8 years previous. The ingratitude of governments toward combat veterans is not confined to England.

[@luisnunes3863]

If anything, it's gotten worse recently, right?

[@Nattleby]

@@Chiller01 My great grandfather (see profile pic) was in the bonus army…

[@Chiller01]

@@Nattleby wow!

[@TheDave570]

THey did make a P=53 smooth bore. For forage...

[@davidwoodvine3491]

Hi Jonathan , very interesting stuff . I have an 1860 India pattern short musket , 2 brass bands , no bayonet lug . Would i be correct in thinking that it would possibly be a navy issue due to the extra brass & absence of bayonet lug ? . Do i have something quite rare as i think India had only a small navy ?

[@johnfisk811]

Brass bands? Issue were all blued steel. One Italian repro company (Armisport) did some with brass bands in the 1970s.

[@davidwoodvine3491]

@@johnfisk811 Hi John , thanks for the info . Im pretty sure its not a reproduction . It has a arsenal number stamped in the stock & dated 1860 on the barrel + serial number . There are some markings on a hexagonal tapered breach which is attached to the round barrel . The 1858 smooth bores didn't have the hexagonal breach & were prone to splitting the barrel , or so im informed . There are no British proof marks on the ones that were assembled in in India , just a crown on the lock plate . The lock plate on mine says in distinctly India , a bit of wear there . It has been well used as the scorching to the stock tells me . Brass butt plate & bands , usually reserved for navy so they dont rust onto the barrel . They did assemble some in India after the Sepoy mutiny using the original p53 barrel bored out to 656 cal . The ram rods were made in india , just a fixed rear sight . I will definitely check the idea that it could be a reproduction , thanks for the reply . Any info gratefully recieved .

[@johnfisk811]

@@davidwoodvine3491 obviously I cannot comment usefully further without seeing photographs of the beast but I do note that period reproductions in smoothbore were commonly made in India for local use for civilian use and for princely states police and army uses. The Afridi made ‘khyber’ copies are better known but copies and near copies were made across India. The Pattern 1853 etc. were the ‘cool’ item of the day. Much as Lee Enfield and AK47s were in later times.

[@davidwoodvine3491]

@@johnfisk811 Thanks for the info John , ive checked out Armi sport , it does differ from their reproductions , in several ways , they do have spares for the Enfield which is handy to know as im missing a barrel tang screw . Seems that there was quite a family of the enfield muskets / rifles . I will try & add a clip some time soon . Regards Dave

[@benmurphy5203]

Ever going to do an armoury tour?

[@pauldeen4785]

Was the rifling of the P53 always 1:76 ? or has there been experimental rifling 1: 48 ?

[@hedgeearthridge6807]

It's rather typical of the state, sadly, to make sure they always have the superior weaponry to their subjects, to prevent rebellion to oppression. But on a positive note, this rebellion had a lot to do with protecting the Caste system, and now in modern India the people are fighting (socially and ethically) to fully eliminate the Caste system, especially as the politicians try to leverage it for power. A lot has changed in the last sub-200 years, and overall it's changed for the better!

[@scrappydoo7887]

Lol 🤣 it's common sense.

[@TheHenirik]

this is still done today though, export versions of all kinds of military equipment are missing features from the domestic versions

[@geppogeppo8545]

On the barrel of my 3-band P53 riled, Tower 1857, is engraved "YEOMANS". Do you know anything? The stock is like Windsor with flat springs for the bands, but all the brands are English. 1 K thanks. Ciao da Milano

[@pudgeboyardee32]

I have used .656 reams in modern machine work settings and i can tell you that reaming a barrel like that wouldve been expensive in the extreme. A modern ream that size can easily cost $1000 and is a bastard to sharpen, which its going to need every 3,000 to 5,000 barrels. My guess is the reaming operation basically doubled the back end production costs but thats a rough guess and im not familiar with tooling of the specific time period. But you also need high pressure oil pumps and power to drive the ream so double the cost in tooling and maintenance might be on the low side, its hard to say.

[@scrappydoo7887]

I think you are probably the only one here who has a truly intelligent take in the comments.

[@bebo4374]

No. I’m wicked smart.

[@alanlawson4180]

Hence, possibly, the term "Top Notch" for anything really higher or better than anything else?

[@denisripley8699]

... just as long as it wasn't 'taken down a peg, or two'.

[@alanlawson4180]

@@denisripley8699 And as this is an India Pattern, that would be a chota Peg of course :)

[@chrisproost7290]

Just an idle question here if anybody cares to answer but... is there anything to the idea of the P59 easing supply by using the same calibre as the P53? I'll assume the former can use the same round just without making use of the expansion into the rifling (though, also my assumption, it would expand to fit the bore better than past smoothbores and eliminate windage somewhat...?) Anyway, just a thought, and great vid as always. Despite (as a Brit) having no firearms experience outside of handling a few at Armed Forces shows ages ago, I find the history and development of firearms, as well as the wars they fought, fascinating.

[@thesykotikone]

Hi mate... Can you do a video on the weapons used during the New Zealand/Maori Wars. Chur!

[@villyvassell8572]

Sepoy Musket was the correct name l.had one for American civil war reenactment,

[@cohort6159]

Was the .577 smoothbore ammo also of the Minnie pattern? Or was that also changed because of the cartridge lubricant issue?

[@johnfisk811]

Round ball in a paper cartridge in the same style as Brown Bess. Essentially the carbine bore cartridge as used in carbines since the 17th century. No lubricant was involved.

[@chrisball3778]

That's the problem with being a huge, oppressive Empire- eventually you have to rely on paying people with no inherent loyalty to you to subjugate their compatriots- always a terrible idea. The British Army also nerfed their artillery a short while after this. During the Second Opium War (1856-60) they tried out a new cannon design- the rifled, breech-loading 'Armstrong gun'. It turned out to be excellent and way ahead of anything anyone else was using. It was also very expensive, so in 1865 the army canned it and went back to using muzzle-loaders, which they stuck with until the 1880's.

[@Balrog2005]

About the Armstrong gun it is more complicated. IIRC there was a commission and the results were that the traditional artillery of the time, muzzle-loading, was more effective in some areas (the Armstrong were very precise but less powerful or useful with shrapnell rounds) and less costly in training and logistics. A part from that the naval Armstrong guns did not have a good penetration. So overall it was not only the cost.

[@morriganmhor5078]

You´re kidding. Most of the Indian continent didn´t go into the Mutiny and even then mostly Muslims under their nobles (those were conquering the same continent from 11 to 17th century and their toll of deads of Hindus was much higher).

[@ZechsMerquise73]

@@morriganmhor5078 Right, because Muslims were offended by cow fat? It's a testament to how hated the British were in the North that Hindus and Muslims joined forces. You're the one who's kidding. 800,000 Indians perished in the war.

[@morriganmhor5078]

@@ZechsMerquise73 And those numbers you got where? Even those killed in all the battles and sieges of 1856-1858 and those who died of various diseases make about 10% of that sum.

[@justicar5]

@@morriganmhor5078 the first attack by a soldier on an officer was by Mangal Pandey, a Hindu, it was the rumour that the cartridges contained cow and pig fat. The first open and organised uprising was in Uttar Pradesh, in the city of Meerut (again mainly Hindu at the time)

[@brilliantmonarch]

Is "nerf" now in the historical lexicon? :P

[@keithkyle2371]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I would like to see some documentation about the rifles that were sold by Great Britain to both sides of the American Civil War. A number of gun makers in and around London provided weapons to both sides. They appear to be a Pattern 1853, a rifled musket With a better rear sight configuration. Comments please.

[@robertstallard7836]

I can't provide documentation, I'm afraid, but the "go-to" expert in the 1853 and its derivatives (Peter Smithurst) states that around a million were exported to both sides by the private arms trade in London, Birmingham and Liege. Many were assembled from parts that, although serviceable, had been sold out of store by the government as worn or obsolete. Some had refurbished stocks, some new. It was basically a right old mish-mash and an opportunity to use up all the spare parts that were hanging around, as well as many rifles sold off by the military, the parts of which could be refurbished and reassembled. Completely new rifles were, of course, made as well. They are therefore not true 1853 Enfields, even though they may look identical, because they were no longer part of the British military service with its rigorous inspection routines and were not supplied by the Government. It's not dissimilar to the huge number of prvately-made P53-esque rifles made for the British Volunteer Movement. They had to conform by way of calibre etc, but the individual could choose their own refinements such as type of wood used, chequering, engraving, quality of the lock, and even rifling (such as many being made as Lancaster Bore). It wouldn't be any surprise if a batch was ordered by some colonel or other for his men, requesting modified sights as you describe.

[@julianmhall]

Why did they reinvent the wheel? Instead of removing the rifling making the bore wider, why not just go back to the /already proven/ smooth bore design of older muskets?

[@underpaidmook]

I guess since they already sent the rifles over there; might as well reuse them but "nerf" them

[@thomasbaagaard]

The weapons had already been produced. So the fastest and cheapest way to make them less effective weapons was to rebore the barrels. After that the 2nd version where new guns with had the same barrels as the P1853... but the actual action of rifling the barrel was simply not done.

[@johnfisk811]

They were set up to make Pattern 1853s so it was both cheaper to make a version and it used many of the same parts which helped maintenance etc. easier. Also the 0,656” cartridge used less powder and lead so was cheaper. Not a small matter when you are literally making them by the million.

[@paulancill3872]

Did they convert smooth bore P58/9 S to Sniders?

[@johnfisk811]

No.

[@yam83]

This is crazy.

[@beachboy0505]

Excellent video 📹 ....so in the 1850'a, the Irish were lumped in with the Indians as unreliable. The main reason the Indian Mutiny/insurrection failed was because the Sikh regiments were absolutely loyal to the East India Company.

[@johjoh978]

lets put them at a disadvantage with a higher rate of fire and a larger projectile

[@greyfells2829]

Now I really want to put wax seals on my guns, what a strangely pleasing detail

[@classified9583]

Love these videos I was wondering do you guys do any kinds of internships or where do i find this out in case anyone sees this

[@samholdsworth420]

Next season this weapon will be buffed to high hell

[@mackenzieblair8135]

I used to have a colonial issued Martini Henry. The rifling had been bored out to turn the rifle into a smoothbore.

[@chroma6947]

Wouldnt have mattered at rorkes drift

[@mackenzieblair8135]

@@chroma6947 a rifle will always be superior to a smoothbore. There’s a reason why the British did it.

[@chroma6947]

@@mackenzieblair8135 no not always. Otherwise the baker and brunswick would have replaced the standard brown bess.

[@mackenzieblair8135]

@@chroma6947 there’s a marked difference between a muzzleloader using paper cartridges and a breech loader using metallic cartridges… Rifling wasn’t standard in military muzzleloaders up until the developments of the ‘Minié’ ball because the speed at which a smoothbore can be loaded was much faster than a rifle. The advancement of a undersized bullet that would expand upon firing and grip the rifling meant that rifles could finally be loaded and fired at a comparative speed to smoothbores. Armies quickly transitioned to using rifles because they are superior. The point became moot once rifles started using metallic cartridges and were breech-loaded…

[@FelixstoweFoamForge]

Makes sense , (If you're an imperial power), why give someone who might rebel against you a weapon as good as yours? My heater is always with the Rebels though........

[@andreweden9405]

If you know the details about what transpired during the Sepoy Rebellion, you wouldn't blame the British for taking such measures. They also relieved the Company of its authority in the Subcontinent. If the Indians want different guns, let them make their own!

[@WraithOfMan]

In the modern era we have the pretty ridiculous situation where we sell better versions of our military hardware to other nations - frequently not our friends, either - than those with which we equip our own armed forces...

[@desertlightning7335]

Or we just give it away/leave it for others to find...

[@scrappydoo7887]

This kind of thing isn't exactly new though is it as far as I understand. There are various systems supplied to potentially problematic forces that have been adjusted to stop them from achieving full potential no?

[@andyleighton6969]

All together now: Whatever happens We have got The Maxim gun And they have not. Another piece of Gucci kit not issued to "native" units for some time.

[@mikehoare6093]

But you already had the pattern 1842 musket, didn´t you ?

[@cwilken826]

Indians OP, please nerf

[@welkingunther6930]

Can you be more specific on the so called "animal fat" in the cartridge?

[@davidkermes376]

rumors were spread among the hindus that cow fat was used, which violated their religious strictures about sacred cows. moslem troops heard the rumor it was pig fat, which violated their religious condemnation of pork. since the british tended to walk all over colonials' rights and feelings nobody believed them when they tried to deny it. the grease question was just one many insults the indian populations had put up with until everything boiled over in 1857.

[@johnfisk811]

@@davidkermes376 The Ordnance requirement was for mutton tallow and bees wax. In India the arsenals were sloppy about what fat was used when they made their cartridges.

[@johnfisk811]

Or rather their quality control over their local suppliers was lax.

[@barbarossarotbart]

If you issue outdated weapons to your (native) troops because you fear an insurrection, then you clearly have a disadvantage if an invasion happens and the invader gave his (native) troops up-to-date weapons or you send those troops against rebels who were supplied with up-to-date weapons.

[@Skyfox94]

One would imagine that, in case of an invasion they'd give little shit about the local garrison. They'd be little more than cannon fodder until the proper army arrives.

[@Dogbertious]

In the case of India, the concern was never really invasion by another power. It was largely about keeping the local population (noble or otherwise) in check.

[@Ukraineaissance2014]

There was basically no chance of another technologically equal european power invading India, the sepoys were there for internal security and fighting various tribes, political factions and religious groups.

[@barbarossarotbart]

@@Dogbertious But what if one of Britain's rivals thought that it was a good idea to support rebels and to supply them with modern weapons?

[@underpaidmook]

@@barbarossarotbart Well, firstly; they need to send a large fleet to get enough supplies for a major insurrection...which of course would run right into the Royal Navy.

[@A.Steptoe]

SLR to SA80? they did it again lol

[@calvingreene90]

And it all could have been avoided if the British officers would have been smart enough when questioned by the troops whether Muslim or Hindu about the grease on the cartridges to say "Mutton."

[@Ukraineaissance2014]

Well it's nowhere near as simple as that

[@calvingreene90]

@@Ukraineaissance2014 There was a lot of grumbling unhappiness but it it all came to a head because of the religious significance of the grease used. The Muslims were not opposed to killing pigs but biting pig fat coated paper was a great affront unto Allah. Harming cows was a greater affront to the Hindu. If the would have taken their concerns seriously, went through the motions an then assured them that it was mutton grease it probably would not come to a head.

[@johnfisk811]

@@calvingreene90 Except they had been loading Brunswicks with greased patches for years, they were offered the opportunity to make their own cartridges and mutineers used Pattern 1858 production greased cartridges when they could. The story was a trigger to set off long standing pre existing tensions within the army of one of the three Presidencies in India Sloppy control of suppliers meant that indeed the mutineers were correct. But by cock up not conspiracy of the authorities. The actual causes were down to a culture of poor management by their officers and clumsy politics by the Company.

[@calvingreene90]

@@johnfisk811 Which brings us back to if the officers would have been smart enough to at least act like they cared and assure them that mutton grease was specified in the contract the mutiny would probably have been avoided. If the officers had been smart enough to do that they would also been smart enough to defuse other problems as well but you can go a long way with a lot of discontent if you avoid key issues such as violating their religion.

[@borjesvensson8661]

Ever heard the rumor about (insert celebrity here) removing ribs or the one about rat in the pizza? No matter how mutch prof there is it is hard to stop rumors once they start rolling. All it takes is one sailor mentioning to a sepoy that he uses lard or pork fat to grease rifle bullets and the rumor mill is off.

[@Level1Bear]

Yet another great video! And very nice looking rifles! I could have sworn I saw a video of you shooting one of these a while ago, am I remembering that right? Edit: Found what I was thinking of, kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGPOq5p_rbJnprM

[@jonc4403]

I have a 1863 Springfield that's been 'sporterized' into a shotgun. The rifling has been removed, and the stock has been cut down to make it lighter. It was apparently a fairly common modification after the Civil War. It wasn't done to 'nerf' the rifle, but to make it more suitable for hunting small animals.

[@johnstacy7902]

For a farmer a shotgun is far more useful. I've shot birds with the breach loader version of these