The first Rifle Muskets: Chambers and Sabots and Pillars (oh my!)

[@teddygrizz]

I was an artillery cannoneer myself in OEF. My wife finds this stuff so boring, but I can spend hours watching people talk about historical weapons technology. Tanks, howitzers, and rifles. I love the material science, mechanical engineering, and chemistry of it all. Spiral tubes and spinny boys!

[@davefellhoelter1343]

I too am hooked on Historic mechanical Industrial Porn. with No Particular fetish, but ALL!

[@gallanonim1379]

We cannot forget about other ideas for an easy-loading rifle - when French experimented with their chambers and pillars the British adopted "Brunswick Rifle" with "belted" bullet, the same concept was adopted by Russians as "short rifle for marksman battalions model 1843", so called "short rifle from Liege"("Литтихский штуцер") and widely used during the Crimean War. Of course, the idea of a "bullet with ears" turned out to be more difficult to load than French pillar rifles. Ultimately, however, throughout Europe it was still a specialized weapon for light infantry and sometimes NCO's, therefore they are forgotten. And the funniest thing that the French, inventors of Minie bullet, adopted they themselves last in Europe, in 1860s... Greetings from Poland!

[@BlueBallzItch1]

THANK YOU! I thought I dreamt this info.

[@Real11BangBang]

So I am currently looking into buying a French model 1822 light infantry musket and when reading about it. They say that those guns were built so well that whenever the hollow based projectiles came out. They would bore the guns out from 68 caliber to 70 caliber and rifle them Pretty cool stuff

[@thebotrchap]

1822TBis. Originally built with a 17.7mm bore, bored out to 18mm from 1847 onwards at the same time as being converted to percussion (T conversion). Rifled with 0.2mm deep rifling from 1860 onwards (Bis conversion). I’ll be doing a vid on it in the course of the year.

[@Real11BangBang]

Subscribered I will be looking forward to it ​@@thebotrchap

[@andyedwards9222]

I love your presentations. Always interesting, considered and never to dry. There is always a kernel of humour and fun. Keep them coming.

[@JacquelineNull]

I’ve got an 1861 Springfield rifle musket that I do demonstrations for 8th graders learning about the civil war. As a former history teacher now middle school principal I enjoy firearms from this era. When the 8th grade history class at my school is learning about the civil war I will arrange a field trip to my property to demonstrate my 1861 Springfield to the students and allow the students to load and shoot under supervision.

[@ogilkes1]

I have read the books, but the video is excellent! Thank you.

[@TenaciousTrilobite]

The Hall may not have been the best by the 1840s, but it's still #1 in my heart

[@ianseddon9347]

Fascinating- thank you Brett.

[@MrTwiggy93]

Thank you! My absolute favorite topic in gun history

[@Jagdtyger2A]

Fascinating historical information. Who knew that the path was so complex

[@johndally7994]

As you answer many of my questions with each new video, a dozen more pop up and I eagerly await the next installment. Thank you, Brett.

[@sarchlalaith8836]

You know I was worried subscribing this was going to be another flag waving usa usa channel. But instead I'm happily surprised to find a knowledgeable and seemingly impartial fellow in love with the subject and very widened to it and able to expediently communicate all his accumulated learning in a very enjoyable fashion Thoroughly engaging, entertaining and insightful. 10/10

[@gotsloco1810]

If you have not picked up his books, you should consider doing so.

[@datadavis]

Flag that wave, son!

[@sarchlalaith8836]

@@datadavis the only flag I wave is the flag of the oppressed cohort. It's a black flag.

[@sarchlalaith8836]

@@gotsloco1810 I certainly will, thanks

[@datadavis]

@@sarchlalaith8836 cool, say hi to Henry from me-

[@johnfisk811]

Thank you very much Brett. I know all these things but it was good to see them so well presented. You will get the hang of pronouncing a civilised language eventually. If you want to do something more I would suggest the Wilde system with its water dropper. I have a file I put together on it if you want it sent on to you. Even better the surviving first hand sources will be in German. Well Swiss and Bavarian German anyway.

[@tomalexander2710]

Really interesting stuff, thank you!

[@gotsloco1810]

A great history lesson. Thank you. I have a desire for more information on the Lindner Carbine. I have Edward Hull’s book on the “Lindner Carbines and Rifles”, but there is no mention of the cartridge construction.

[@niclbicl]

Thank you for this perfect video, greetings from austria.

[@NORTH_CAROLINA_REAPER]

Another great video.

[@jharchery4117]

Thank you.

[@robertbradley1767]

When you talk about the American developments, the Hall wasn’t the only breechloader rifle adopted by the American military. The US Navy adopted the Jenks “mule ear” carbine! .52 caliber, like the Hall

[@duncanandrews1940]

Well done as always Brett, very interesting......

[@sinisterthoughts2896]

fantastic discussion.

[@josephgonzales4802]

As a reenactor I love these nerdy presentation. They are very informative. 👍😊

[@nickstanev3761]

Great as always! Thank you!

[@scottfoster9452]

Once again I thank you Brett for another fascinating and informative lecture, I really enjoyed it and learnt a lot. Your cutaway loading and firing sequence animations are also very good and easy to understand! ✌️🙂

[@citizendisco]

Super informative, thanks.

[@stefankonig2426]

You might have heard the story before, you might have read it before, but if you listen to Brett telling it it's like a whole new story. Completely fascinating and definitely more thrilling than any "thriller". To cite Balázs: I love it, I love it!

[@brealistic3542]

Excellent video with outstanding research into the topic. I always wondered how the mini ball was figured out.

[@BIG-DIPPER-56]

Very Nice - Thanks 👍

[@mikehoare6093]

you what, mate!?!?!?!?!? you dare lay hands on our beloved baker rifle of talavera fame ? whoa, I´m gonna tell that to Rob, brace for impact, mate !!!!🤣

[@papercartridges6705]

Hmm you know I think that just means Rob needs to make more Baker videos.

[@mikehoare6093]

@@papercartridges6705 you might be right on this, but well, Rob may need those finian targets in blue uniforms to make him shoot better ?!

[@johnfisk811]

Actually the blue American ones of 1812 will do nicely I dare say.@@mikehoare6093

[@luzernerschutze7564]

The kingdom of two Sicilies adopted a pillar-breech rifle in 1848 but changed to a chamber design a year later. I don’t know why but I assume they learned just how hard a pillar-breech barrel is to keep clean...

[@MOOEYSMITH]

What a great and informative video. Was that Glenmorangie in that glass ? :)

[@papercartridges6705]

Probably. It was filmed back in October. I haven’t had a drop since.

[@dougramsay4156]

That was very informative and interesting. Thank you! What are the pistols on your mantle? Colt 1903 pocket hammerless?

[@papercartridges6705]

Yes, 1903s

[@derekp2674]

Thanks Brett, that was informative and enjoyable. I would also like to see more of Rob's Baker Rifle, if he can tear himself away form the temptations of all those breech loading arms.

[@TheOhgodineedaname]

Wonderful stuff! I really appreciate that someone is able to dive into the details and intermediate developments between say a flintlock smoothbore and percussion cap rifled musket. I must say I am quite interested in reading or hearing a bit about the development of the Paixhans shell firing gun. From my reading of naval history I always knew him as the guy who adapted shells previously fired indirectly (low velocity curving trajectories) to direct fire (high velocity flat trajectory) as in the manner of cannons firing solid shot. I always reckoned there was a bit more to the story. Could you direct me to the sources you consulted on Paixhans? Hell, might be worth making a brief video on interesting primary and secondary sources for interested viewers.

[@csorgb05]

I have a carbine version of the 1849 rifle. Its a smooth bore of around .665 caliber. The gun measures 29 and 3/4 inches OAL with a 14 and 1/2 inch barrel. I would love to learn more about this gun, if you have any more information. I have heard it referred to as the Austrian M1842 Percussion conversion saddle ring carbine.

[@papercartridges6705]

It’s probably the 1851 Kavalleriekarabiner if it’s smoothbore. Not a very common gun, if you really want to know more, there is probably more information in Gabriel’s book “Hand und Faustfeuerwaffen der habsburgischen Heer.” It covers virtually all the Austrian-Hungarian weapons.

[@csorgb05]

@@papercartridges6705 2 issues. 1st I don't read german. 2nd, the book sells for $200+. Is there anything in english that is more affordable?

[@jamesbarnard9710]

Did you ever notice that the ordnance departments of various militaries are the first to object to and dismiss any advancements in technology?

[@raydornbush]

Hey Brett @paper cartridges what I want to ask is off topic from this video but I recently purchased a pedersoli witworth rifle and was searching for ammunition for it and came across your website. Your website however states that you're off for deployment and that you'll be back in the summer of 2024, this year basically... Am I still able to purchase ammo from you and will I not get it until sometime in the summer if I place my order now. Also if you could guide me on some accessories that would be useful for this rifle I would appreciate that. Edit: I just saw the Christmas channel update and now I know for sure what's going on my two questions in regards to the ammunition and accessories for the rifle still stand though. Thank you for your service stay safe and God bless. Thanks Ray

[@papercartridges6705]

There’s a high demand for Whitworth so I plan to start making them right after I get home. Late July, early August, is realistic timeframe. You’ll need .45 greased wads, and cleaning rod attachments for the Whitworth. I also recommend a platinum lined nipple. Make sure you get the correct nipples in metric, as the Pedersoli doesn’t use the historic inch pattern. Also a powder scale, since it’s worth it to weigh each charge in a precision rifle like the Whitworth. I use 1.5Fg Swiss.

[@TheMysticalBadger]

Do period sources indicate what woods were used for the Poncharra sabot?

[@thebotrchap]

Yes they do. Also the patch was tacked to the underside.

[@TheMysticalBadger]

@@thebotrchap There is a fantastic condition Fusil de rempart Mle 1838 for sale locally, so Im hoping to snag that in the next few weeks.

[@thebotrchap]

@@TheMysticalBadger Lucky man! Fingers crossed

[@Jagdtyger2A]

I am totally surprised that the US Army didn't use a modernized Hall chamber rifle firing a Burton style cartridge. Loading would be faster and allow reloading in the prone position

[@ScottMaurer-g2b]

a great day to drink scotch and talk about rifle muskets..... that's any day. all the days.

[@jamescameron2490]

Not a rifle musket, but the Model 1841 "Mississippi" rifle originally used a patched round ball.

[@JosipRadnik1]

Mahlzeit Brett Little hint: usually, a lone e at the end of a french word is not pronounced until it has some accent sign like "aigu" (é), grave (à, è, ù), circonflexe (â, ê, î, ô, û) and a few others. They call it the "e muet" or "silent e". Sometimes - as in the instance of the word "muet" for example, The "e" has to be supported by another letter behind it that stays silent in order for the "e" itself to become vocal - like "mue(t)" In other words: stick with german - or try italian, or spanish - or croatian! You can also go with serbian, but then you need to learn another alphabet 😄 Polish, cech, slovak I would avoid as they not only use "r"s as vowels as is typical in all slavic languages, but even "v" - russian has similar issues with a weird alphabet on top of it and don't even try to read hungarian...😵‍💫

[@pendarischneider]

For consistency in usage, spelling, and pronunciation you can not get a language better than English! 😜

[@mrmeowmeow710]

👍👍

[@vicroc4]

It's slightly misleading to say that there was no more development of the muzzleloader. More accurately, there was no more /military/ development of the muzzleloader. Although in many ways, the modern in-line muzzleloader - in spite of its breechloader-derived action, primer ignition, modern materials, etc. - is a regression to these early days of muzzleloading rifles. Most bullet styles engrave the rifling on loading, dramatically slowing the process. And there are no commercially-available paper cartridges for in-lines, with their pre-measured powder charge for consistency. The closest thing would be pellets in a speedloader, which is clunky and solely optimized for sabot shooting. Actually, now that I think about it, an interesting topic to research would be how we got from the absolute pinnacle of the muzzleloading rifle in the 1860s to the horrible thing that is a modern in-line muzzleloader.

[@papercartridges6705]

Inline muzzleloaders?! Sir! SIR! Children and young ladies may be reading these comments! Please don’t use such shocking language. And on the Lords day, too!

[@thebotrchap]

@@papercartridges6705Is there an online support group or clinic you can recommend for the dealing with such trauma?

[@dylanstandingalone]

I too, am sick of hearing of these metallic cartridges! Made for simpletons with no motor skills.

[@theovaissie2480]

What do you hate about French and firearm beside the fact we created the WESTERN CHRISTIAN NATION we created the well working black powder, the one used in you muskets even today. And the artillery that goes with. And later on we created smockless powder, the one used by every one every nations for every firearm today. We are the giants, are you jealous ?

[@tricksterjoy9740]

lol

[@theovaissie2480]

@@tricksterjoy9740 I'm happy for you i make you laugh but as i was talking about simple history i have hard time figuring out why.. What's funny? Also we created the plane, the car and cinema. It make it more funny?

[@tricksterjoy9740]

@@theovaissie2480oh it’s just funny that you’re acting spot on for the stereotypical Frenchman, with a massive ego and vastly overblown and/or misrepresented statements on your countries. You make the French look terrible despite your claims trying to indicate otherwise. Irony being much of your claims are highly controversial to varying degree depending on how you define and track who discovered something and who invented something, and who successfully implements something.

[@tricksterjoy9740]

@@theovaissie2480among those who actually study history, davinci cannot be credited with the invention of the airplane, at most, and being very generous, he can be credited with contributions to the invention of the airplane. As for the automobile, there’s significant controversy on who exactly and where exactly that first popped up, and that changes depending on the exact standards you go by. But all this is Just secondary to the fact we wouldn’t be having this conversation without the Americans. Especially if the French can be accredited with modern black powder as you claim, then the Americans can be accredited to the creation of computers and the internet. Following the same standards.

[@theovaissie2480]

@@tricksterjoy9740 Massive ego? No that's not me. I'm defending the HONOR of France when it was France. y'all Americans, well almost all got manipulated against France because of a stupid bloody war in terrific Satan's country, Islamic country, we didn't wanted to participate for very good reasons. So, our honor is daily attacked and i'm here to make yall remember that this is total nonsens. If it were jealousy it would be stupid but at least, make sens! There is only one way to define who invented what or; for the case of BP who greatly ameliorated what. I am not saying we French invented black powder because in that case we can't defined it, some say China, few otherwise. I personally believe, because of their great IQ that it was in fact China. Or France!

[@EXO9X8]

Pls get a better mic

[@papercartridges6705]

With what I make from KZbin, I should be able to save up enough to buy a decent $200 microphone in about… 14 months.