RSPB: ‘Grouse shooting must change - enough is enough'

Action is needed now to restore our uplands and bring them back to life. But this won’t happen without urgent changes”
RSPB Conservation Director Martin Harper issues an urgent appeal to the UK Government to address the problems associated with driven grouse moor management, including the illegal killing of birds of prey and burning of important peat bog habitats.

[@davt8615]

As a young gamekeeper, anyone who shoots Raptors will be caught and punished! There is no place in my profession for people who kill Raptors

[@modernspacegamer3273]

well done, you've alienated the very people who look after the majority of countryside and wild bird species.

[@AidanRockClimbs]

It’s just highlighting the fact that grouse moors are ecological and environmentally poor

[@napalmhotdog4365]

@@AidanRockClimbs and they’d be even worse if they weren’t grouse moors

[@shakeybeatz]

@@napalmhotdog4365 how? Stop talking rubbish.

[@user-sg1wn7ho2r]

Well they're not doing a very good job are they? Not only are grouse moors ecologically impoverished, but they are loss-making and rely on public subsidies or wealthy absentee owners. And I don't need to mention the numerous cases of raptor persecution.

[@stephenmawle6843]

To better inform the debate; Please can the RSPB release their upland reserve breeding bird surveys for their own and contratual managed land holdings in England and Wales since 2012 so that we can compare and contrast the results delivered by different land management practises. It would also be useful to know how many foxes, crows, stoats and weasels were controlled on each reserve as part of the analysis.

[@thebeans8382]

Stephen Mawle are foxes real?

[@rampantsloth5570]

Please research your subject before commenting on it

[@kevinturner5857]

Oh the voice of wisdom .....(yet again) , u r livin in the past ...

[@marktaylor3273]

I understand the peat bogs that are managed with burning heather sustain the carbon sequestration that helps the environment. Where grouse moors have been left unmanaged they have turned into wild bracken and bramble wastelands with huge fires raging. British uplands can sustain the unique heather moorland, not found anywhere else. I would say the biggest threat to carbon release is the intensively grown crops on deep cultivate land of the eastern counties where chemicals and oil based fertiliser is use in abundance.

[@martyfeldman3269]

The Unique heather moorland is completely man made and unnatural. Currently the moorlands are a sterile desert bereft of anything other than game birds. They’re not supposed to be neat and tidy they’re supposed to be a habitat for various animals to recover a natural balance. It’s time to take our foot off the moorlands throat and let it recover.

[@paddymularkey]

@@martyfeldman3269 Noticed youve been busy on here Mr Feldman, spouting just lies.....simple!! Put your real name up mr Packham...we know its you...

[@marktaylor3273]

Don't be deluded by the heather moorland as they are a tiny pin prick on the British map. A bigger concern is the devastation of green belt land being used for housing. A managed grouse moor is full of a diverse habitat and is a great spectacle. Education is a key to understanding what you see.

[@martyfeldman3269]

George Devlin...Don’t be a bellend George.

[@normanmurray3659]

Could Mr Hsrper give an estimate of the number of mountain hares left on RSPB Abernethy to date after they took it over and ignored the advice they were given to cull the mountain hares for their own health ?

[@tiernanwearen8096]

I like how he leaves out how gamekeepers control of predators benefits other species

[@AidanRockClimbs]

Like 2 species,

[@tiernanwearen8096]

@@AidanRockClimbs so lapwings hen harriers red squirrels songbirds. All he wants to do is push his agenda he's not intrested in having a actual debate

[@AidanRockClimbs]

Ok fair enough 2 species was exaggeration, song birds yes, hen harriers okay but the motivation for grouse moors is for the grouse to be top priority so that does mean killing predators such as hen harriers in some cases, Red squirrels definitely not. All in all whilst there may be other species that benefit from grouse moors, the moor is dominated by these species making it very low in biodiversity, additional due to the lack of trees means there is a lack of leaf litter in streams, reducing fish quantities downstream, and allows flooding to occur due to limited transportation from limited vegetation which increases through flow of water. I’m not trying to alienate those in the industry but I think it is important to review the negative environmental impacts that grouse moors have.

[@kevinturner5857]

It's humans need controlling , stop playin the poor little victim (again).....its obsessive control freakery , man creates a miserable place for our wildlife , this grouse massacres r ethnic cleansing of all our diverse wildlife , u saturate this area with nothin but grouse & nothin else is allowed to b there , killing everything is all u do , its evil cruelty , & I don't care about u shootin grouse b4 u spout off ....its biodiversity that I'm concerned about , ....man is the problem for our decimated tightly strictly controlled wildlife ........the most dangerous spieces on this poisoned polluted abused dead planet is humans not raptors & all other spieces ....

[@user-sg1wn7ho2r]

@@tiernanwearen8096 It's only because the grouse moor 'ecosystem' is so out of balance and impoverished that predator control is required. If it supported a range of habitats and species, this would not be needed to the same extent.

[@mrmoran0077]

What a load of shite, sounds to me like a simple case of sour grapes because the sporting estates have had great success yet rspb reserves are virtually devoid of life.....

[@normanmurray3659]

This is deliberate misinformation, he has not much of a clue about Cool burning. he seems unfit to hold his position as the RSPB's Conservation Director, perhaps he should do some research on the biodiversity on Grouse Moors, it is certainly greater than on the RSPB's moors. Is this a way to divert attention from their own miserable performance at producing waders and the loss of their Mountain Hares on RSPB Abernethy where it is suspected that an overburden of worm was the cause of their death. Or it maybe to take attention away from them destroying habitat by planting trees on prime habitat for waders such as curlew and lapwings. They should get their own house in order before they start preaching to others how to run their moors. a trip to SpecSavers would be in order for many of the RSPB board who cannot see the wildlife on these moors.

[@apl202]

I went onto a grouse moor in the North York Moors. I saw Merlin's, Kites, Buzzards (loads of them), Peregrine, Sparrow Hawk and countless Kestrels. In contrast I go to Dartmoor where I live and would be lucky to see any of the above species, certainly not in the numbers I saw in Yorkshire. I also saw a single curlew and good amounts of lapwings. I have never seen a curlew on Dartmoor and small amounts of lapwings, certainly not the numbers I see in Yorkshire. From looking from the outside in I was very impressed by what I saw in Yorkshire - AND ON A MANAGED GROUSE MOOR

[@bradleywoods3742]

I live in cheshire, just next to the peak district and I can tell you that most of the dark peaks are devoid of birds of prey. The most you will see is an occasional kestrel, or maybe buzzard. The only place in the entire dark peaks where I have seen any other bird of prey in rspb dove stone, where I consistently see peregrine falcon. In fact rspb dovestone is probably the best place in the dark peaks to look for wildlife, and I say that having spent countless trips to the park.

[@dave6148]

I work in the area of the North York Moors and regularly visit the grouse moors. I am struggling to make sense of what you have said. I rarely see any raptors at all except the occasional kestrel and merlin. Its a fact that all kinds of wildlife crime is rampant up here. Some of my customers are farmers, landowners and gamekeepers and they are quite open about what they do ...they just know that up here, they are virtually untouchable.

[@user-sg1wn7ho2r]

Has this guy been paid by the BASC to make spurious statements. Is that you Ian Botham?

[@stephenmawle6843]

​ Marty Feldman Ref my comments above - Black Grouse (Lyrurus tetrix) are a different bird to Red Grouse (Lagopus lagopus scotica). Black Grouse in England have been subject to a successful conservation program run by the GWCT with help from moorland owners. The last population survey was paid for by donations from moorland owners, national parks and the RSPB. The survey I refer to was carried out in 2014 not 2012 as I first thought. The figures are accurate. 96% of Black Grouse are now found on or very near Grouse Moors. In Wales 98% of the Welsh Black Grouse population is found on one shooting estate. In scotland the Black Grouse population is in general terms in a rapid decline with stable or increasing populations only to be found on or near land managed for shooting. ( There may be an odd exception to this generalised statement in Scotland as further Scottish national survey work is required to get an accurate up to date picture.) Given the known plight of the Black Grouse in England and Wales the Scottish outlook is unlikely to be different. The total English population in the spring of 2019 was estimated to be 1800 males. They are found on or near grouse moors due to the protection, maintenance and enhancement of suitable habitat via shooting interest land management and the protection provided by moorland keepers from ground and nest predators in the nesting and brood rearing season. Away from Grouse moors these birds have declined exponentially. Without the benefits delivered by grouse moors it is likely that they would already be extinct in England and Wales. Those that oppose Grouse shooting simply because they don't like the idea of people enjoying the activity do so on a moralistic principle. They appear to want to ban grouse shooting to make themselves feel better, to appease their moralistic outrage. How do you justify sending the Black Grouse and at least 18 other red listed species, that are well known and documented to thrive on land managed for grouse shooting, to the extinction pit to satisfy your own moral indignation? What are the alternative land used that can sustainably support these ecosystems in the long term ? None have yet to be identified or to be seen to work.

[@theotheseaeagle]

One species which doesn’t do much to an ecosystem really apart from act as a prey animal is not needed. The UKs moors could be full of life if people could stop persecuting predators there. They should leave it as it is.

[@tiernanwearen8096]

Hopefully this will be completely unbiased and balanced

[@leeshepherd4775]

speak to cat owners how many birds die through cats

[@MrRobertFarr]

I think he is making a mistake. The burning is to remove bracken in this area. Ferns are generally poisonous and no good for grazing. That's the reason for burning. I learned about Environmental Science during my scientific research with The University of Plymouth. Which was supported by The Farr family. Sponsored by McGinley Support Services and Plymouth City Council. As it was my whim to be encouraged by my mum to take the easier option of University Study . Although, I found it very stressful and placed strange financial pressure on myself to stay debt free .

[@MrRobertFarr]

Less laws than Londoners. Who , have to live one on top of the other !

[@fieldman7613]

The man talks lies and utter rubbish.

[@ringsidejudge4302]

What a do gooder . I wish we had grouse shoots managing moors in Ireland , maybe we would still have grouse . Nowadays we have an abundance of foxes , buzzards etc ,and no grouse . The RSPB should stop attacking shooting and come over here , buy some moors and try and restore , if possible , the red grouse . After all they are a bird too .

[@kevinturner5857]

U sound a right Charlie 😂

[@andrewsmith3720]

What a wimp this man is , I spend all my spare time up on the Yorkshire dales where there is an abundance of wildlife,ground nesting birds thrive through game and moor management, with out game keeper's there would be to many predictors for these birds to survive,

[@user-sg1wn7ho2r]

I'm afraid you've got a severe case of bias. You only see the landscape as it is now (an ecologically impoverished grouse factory) - not what it could, and should, look like. Take a visit to western Norway and you'll see how rich and abundant our uplands could be if we stopped managing them for a single species.

[@stephenmawle6843]

How is the population of rare Black Grouse fairing on the RSPB Gatesdale reserve? Not very well I here in comparison with populations of Black Grouse on neighbouring and nearby Grouse moors. Could this be because of management differences? At the last national survey in 2012(date needs checking) 96% of Black Grouse were found on or in very close proximity to managed Grouse moors, up from 82% in 2006 (date needs checking) This shows that land management away from Grouse Moors is failing to protect these rare birds. The Black Grouse is a long lived species and their disappearance is a biological indicator of wider declines in avian biodiversity away from moorland managed for grouse.

[@martyfeldman3269]

So the delicate management of the moors produces a huge over abundance of one particular bird which you have to control by shooting ?Everything else is eradicated, and the moors are managed until they squeak .

[@paddymularkey]

@@martyfeldman3269 Read what was written above your stupid comment Mr packham, hes talking about a different bird, so that makes 2 kinds...Fool!!! 1+1=2

[@martyfeldman3269]

George Devlin...Don’t be a bellend George.

[@stephenmawle6843]

​@@martyfeldman3269 Ref my comments above - Black Grouse (Lyrurus tetrix) are a different bird to Red Grouse (Lagopus lagopus scotica). Black Grouse in England have been subject to a successful conservation program run by the GWCT with help from moorland owners. The last population survey was paid for by donations from moorland owners, national parks and the RSPB. The survey I refer to was carried out in 2014 not 2012 as I first thought. The figures are accurate. 96% of Black Grouse are now found on or very near Grouse Moors. In Wales 98% of the Welsh Black Grouse population is found on one shooting estate. In scotland the Black Grouse population is in general terms in a rapid decline with stable or increasing populations only to be found on or near land managed for shooting. ( There may be an odd exception to this generalised statement in Scotland as further Scottish national survey work is required to get an accurate up to date picture.) Given the known plight of the Black Grouse in England and Wales the Scottish outlook is unlikely to be different. The total English population in the spring of 2019 was estimated to be 1800 males. They are found on or near grouse moors due to the protection, maintenance and enhancement of suitable habitat via shooting interest land management and the protection provided by moorland keepers from ground and nest predators in the nesting and brood rearing season. Away from Grouse moors these birds have declined exponentially. Without the benefits delivered by grouse moors it is likely that they would already be extinct in England and Wales. Those that oppose Grouse shooting simply because they don't like the idea of people enjoying the activity do so on a moralistic principle. They appear to want to ban grouse shooting to make themselves feel better, to appease their moralistic outrage. How do you justify sending the Black Grouse and at least 18 other red listed species, that are well known and documented to thrive on land managed for grouse shooting, to the extinction pit to satisfy your own moral indignation? What are the alternative land used that can sustainably support these ecosystems in the long term ? None have yet to be identified or to be seen to work.

[@royal-1664]

Funny how your own surveys contradict what your saying. Grouse moors have some of the highest numbers of curlew, peregrine falcon and golden plover

[@bradleywoods3742]

Thats clearly not the case in the peak district. The only place where you can confidently see peregrine falcons in the peak district is rspb dovestone. It is also one of the very few places where you can see dunlin and mountain hare in the peak district.

[@thebeans8382]

Cringe

[@royal-1664]

@@thebeans8382 Hardly

[@jamesturner7728]

Get the R dropped from people like this man

[@craigchisholm2643]

Hey there fella - your husband called.....you're late for making his dinner.

[@dewijones92]

Bang on

[@clarewatson1397]

And if you ban grouse shooting, not only will you stop the excellent conservation work undertaken by game keepers, you'll open the door to farmers who will overgraze this unique habitat with sheep. The net result? None of the wildlife or unique bio diversity, which as YOU KNOW, exist in abundance on grouse moors.

[@rad858]

Moors managed for driven grouse shooting are not examples of excellent conservation, they're ecological deserts. It's disingenuous and silly to claim that it can only get worse if this activity is stopped.

[@clarewatson1397]

rad858 I'm afraid that just isn't true. If it wasn't for moors managed for grouse shooting the Curlew would be nearly extinct and dare I mention the Hen Harrier too - examples of just a couple of species which rely on the protection and habit preserved by gamekeepers. I do understand if you do not like the idea of shooting but the UK is no longer a wild place and the ecology of the countryside has evolved around mans activities - this includes shooting.

[@jonathanwallace2977]

@@clarewatson1397 The suggestion that Hen Harriers rely on the protection of gamekeepers is ludicrous beyond belief. There is a mountain of evidence that the scarcity of hen harriers and the fact that the species very nearly became extinct in England in recent years is due to persecution by gamekeepers. Some protection!

[@clarewatson1397]

Jonathan Wallace. Wrong again. Without a plentiful supply of grouse , you wouldn't have any hen harriers. Fact. There is a symbiosis between moorland management, grouse and the number of apex predators, such as Hen Harriers. In the video there is also the mention of "mono-culture". If this is a concern of the RSPB, they should focus their energies on the genuine areas of mono-culture, which are the thousands of hectares of arable farmland, which doesn't sustain ANY bio diversity whatsoever. Sort that out before you have a go at shooting.

[@Brucey865]

Let’s not let facts get in the way of people’s feelings!

[@raiferegis9004]

He’s feeding people pure lies

[@craigchisholm5841]

Are these public or private lands?

[@lillie0503]

i don't like either the rspb or grouse shooting. Uplands are hideously abused by burning and grazing intensively until only heather is left. The RSPB do this as much as grouse shoots do. Yes there is a transition faze of bracken and brambles until scrubland can colonise, you do actually need to allow the introduction of seeds/nuts/acorns. They don't magically appear when all the birds and animals that carry them have been killed off. It will take decades or centuries to see much improvement. Its difficult to point to a more abused landscape in the world today.

[@dannyboy7289]

Total nonsense as usual

[@fish9468]

Great video. Shit gotta change!

[@tiernanwearen8096]

Yes it's completely balanced and unbiased

[@fish9468]

@@tiernanwearen8096 my man hates science

[@tiernanwearen8096]

@@fish9468 I like how he leaves out how gamekeepers control other predators benefits other species

[@fish9468]

@@tiernanwearen8096 since when does manipulating the food chain help at all? Nature does it right.

[@shakeybeatz]

@@tiernanwearen8096gamekeepers control nothing.

[@leeshepherd4775]

sort your head out cats are wiping out all birds

[@carykain9659]

I think he's said cause he have no tree to hug.

[@normanmurray3659]

Martin Harper is sadly ignorant about the moors, or he is deliberately lying to paint a bad picture of excellent management carried out on grouse moors, he forgets the disastrous record the RSPB of managing their own moors.Who are they to think that they can advise others, get their own house in order first if they can !!!

[@angusrutherford1306]

Bet he's going home to eat a grouse

[@angusrutherford1306]

Fuck off snowflake

[@saturn1returns]

The slaughter has to change.

[@BarrowZigger]

The grouse shooting establishment racket must be brought to en end. their greed will bring them down.

[@paddymularkey]

The RSPB will stop at nothing to fill that pension hole they generated.

[@martyfeldman3269]

George Devlin..The grouse shoots will stop at nothing to wring every last penny out of the moors.

[@paddymularkey]

@@martyfeldman3269 Who will spend the money to keep the moors going? It Takes BIG Money to keeper a moor...Fact ..Moors cost a fortune....Fact ..Moors make money....Joke by the narrow minded Moors will get by without management...Joke by the narrow minded Keepering is beneficial to wildlife diversity on moors....Fact RSPB taking on contracts to kill vermin and earn cash....Fact All the poor misguided souls believing the so called personality experts....Pityfull for the wildlife, Fact.

[@stephenmawle6843]

@@ZigSputnik ​ Marty Feldman Ref my comments above - Black Grouse (Lyrurus tetrix) are a different bird to Red Grouse (Lagopus lagopus scotica). Black Grouse in England have been subject to a successful conservation program run by the GWCT with help from moorland owners. The last population survey was paid for by donations from moorland owners, national parks and the RSPB. The survey I refer to was carried out in 2014 not 2012 as I first thought. The figures are accurate. 96% of Black Grouse are now found on or very near Grouse Moors. In Wales 98% of the Welsh Black Grouse population is found on one shooting estate. In scotland the Black Grouse population is in general terms in a rapid decline with stable or increasing populations only to be found on or near land managed for shooting. ( There may be an odd exception to this generalised statement in Scotland as further Scottish national survey work is required to get an accurate up to date picture.) Given the known plight of the Black Grouse in England and Wales the Scottish outlook is unlikely to be different. The total English population in the spring of 2019 was estimated to be 1800 males. They are found on or near grouse moors due to the protection, maintenance and enhancement of suitable habitat via shooting interest land management and the protection provided by moorland keepers from ground and nest predators in the nesting and brood rearing season. Away from Grouse moors these birds have declined exponentially. Without the benefits delivered by grouse moors it is likely that they would already be extinct in England and Wales. Those that oppose Grouse shooting simply because they don't like the idea of people enjoying the activity do so on a moralistic principle. They appear to want to ban grouse shooting to make themselves feel better, to appease their moralistic outrage. How do you justify sending the Black Grouse and at least 18 other red listed species, that are well known and documented to thrive on land managed for grouse shooting, to the extinction pit to satisfy your own moral indignation? What are the alternative land used that can sustainably support these ecosystems in the long term ? None have yet to be identified or to be seen to work.