3080 FE testing in Ghost, Dan A4, and Ncase coming up. Stand by.
@almostdead95674 жыл бұрын
😘😍
@coopermay8874 жыл бұрын
My body is ready.
@joostwagelaar88374 жыл бұрын
I would really like to know if the rtx 3090 and a 10900k/9900k(s) is coolable in the ncase with dual 240mm radiator. Could you make a video about that?
@Phoboni4 жыл бұрын
thanks man
@Charbin144 жыл бұрын
I cannot wait! Just received my Dan yesterday! So excited as it will be my first pc build ever! Videos don't do the case justice with how small it really is!
@Trooper2664 жыл бұрын
These FE cards are beautiful. The partners should learn from it and stop with the "gamers", RGB, and tire marks.
@frikkievuiltrens4 жыл бұрын
Cesar Canassa I agree, the FE cards are beautiful, that is until you connect a cable to the middle of the card 🤯🙄
@odinsplaygrounds4 жыл бұрын
I agree 100% and more. Been saying the same thing for ages. They should really consider that most likely 12 year old fortnite-boys are not the target audience of $800-1700 GPUs.
@philsag4 жыл бұрын
I like the look of the old reference blowers the best tbh but they had shitty cooling. I wish the gamer look would go away though. Something that's so high tech and costly should not look like a Transformers toy
@bananya60204 жыл бұрын
@@odinsplaygrounds their parents are ;)
@lukri42094 жыл бұрын
Can’t 100% confirm but aftermarket cards have to confirm their design with nvidia and nvidia basically hold them back when I comes to cooler design so they’re just trying to do the best they can. In some cases you actually do need the 2000 series cooler design for better airflow. For example I have been waiting for 3080 for my mini itx pc. Basically the aftermarket cards are just doing their best with what their allowed to do. Kinda feel bad for them ngl.
@deinemuddaisdoof4 жыл бұрын
The location of the plug is so unfortunate.
@Lessenjr4 жыл бұрын
Eh... a creative builder can do really cool things with what many see as flaws.
@Anetti-w7s4 жыл бұрын
Optimum tech's probably going to make a custom sleeved cable ASAP for it.
@chrisb89484 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this mate, your videos are such a great resource for the sff community
@timwong68184 жыл бұрын
After market card are really really really ugly, all of them, I mean.
@Mrwebeater4 жыл бұрын
exactly, its like they competing for the worst design
@zephyr.r4 жыл бұрын
yes by far the ugliest set of cards i’ve ever seen
@amhowaye16054 жыл бұрын
If they perform better I wouldn't care less about how they look, but both ugly and hot and loud? No ,thankyou.
@ell20304 жыл бұрын
gaming x trio is nice though
@BodybuildingSteve4 жыл бұрын
@@ell2030 MSI need to come up with a different support bracket, I have the 2070s and that thing sags like crazy, there support arm is absolutely useless, I ended up sticking my street fighter ken figure under the GPU to straighten it out lol
@Lux1584 жыл бұрын
for the T1 you could try to rotate the PSU to widen the path for the rear airflow
@Kevin-vg5uw4 жыл бұрын
The best looking cards on the market tho, so tired of the cheap tacky look of aib cards, this is so refreshing, even if they were 5-10 percent slower I'd still choose nvidias design
@Kevin-vg5uw4 жыл бұрын
@METhOdhowtoKilLnoObS then as a whole it is not the best
@Kevin-vg5uw4 жыл бұрын
@METhOdhowtoKilLnoObS I also like the gigabyte vision that's coming out
@cimkep82504 жыл бұрын
@@Kevin-vg5uw not the best but I really like the boxy design
@thepotatomine93724 жыл бұрын
the Radeon vii looks milimalistic just wished it has larger bents and a extreme static pressure fan blades it would have been perfect
@donttakeitpersonalnowalrig13264 жыл бұрын
@METhOdhowtoKilLnoObS dude it just a box.. I guess it depends on your taste
@nexttvc4 жыл бұрын
Hi Can you tell us how much more benefits to get 3090 from 3080 in video 4K or 6K Video Editing on Premier ?
@remk43043 жыл бұрын
Usually editing software utilizes CPU more than GPU.
@YEAHMAP4 жыл бұрын
thicc boii
@DavidC14 жыл бұрын
im a thiccc girl
@zabe48844 жыл бұрын
I like thicc shakes
@bobpro5834 жыл бұрын
Big chungus
@dvvaughn5644 жыл бұрын
LEARN TO SPELL
@PLK1234 жыл бұрын
No u
@Zambumon4 жыл бұрын
Can't wait for the RTX 3090 FormD T1 build
@sushimshah28964 жыл бұрын
Liquid cooled FE PCB would be awesome (& tiny)
@Zambumon4 жыл бұрын
@@sushimshah2896 I'd also want to see how it performs with the stock cooler.
@sushimshah28964 жыл бұрын
@@Zambumon I doubt it'd fit (it might though with some struggle), but I doubt the thermals would be good & they won't be representative of the cooler design it has. Plus I feel that anyone who's willing to buy a $1500 card, would certainly want to liquid cool it & eke out more performance (in a SFF case that is)
@IgnatPankratov4 жыл бұрын
Would be nice to see the temperatures and how to handle this TDP in T1
@tash13304 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure it'll fit albeit barely tho. If it gets mounted to the rear backpanel first, then the struts are installed, then the case front panel. It should just fit. The case front panel has a cavity which should give it the 1+ mm clearance the card needs to barely fit. I really wanted to do testing myself in my T1, but you guys know how the 3090 launch went
@matthieuzglurg60154 жыл бұрын
what about the 3090 in the Cooler Master NR 200?
@tonygilbert85884 жыл бұрын
Not sure why the NR200 wasn’t mentioned for 3090 fe fit but I’d like know this as well.
@maxwellgriffith4 жыл бұрын
I’ll bet it’s similar to the NCase m1, since the cases are so alike
@FranXeed4 жыл бұрын
Love the details of every video you do! Subbed!
@GTechOfficial4 жыл бұрын
I'm so in love with the FE design this time around. I can't wait to get my hands on a 3090 FE when they slowly but surely come back in stock
@hadouken0084 жыл бұрын
Same here
@Marty-et9sx4 жыл бұрын
Nice joke. So you aren't getting one then.
@GTechOfficial3 жыл бұрын
@@Timeless937 got one back in November from a guy locally for a good deal. I used it in a build on my channel
@egothebest474 жыл бұрын
Hope you find or make some nice looking 12 pin psu custom cables, those cards definately deserve that
@LTSDK14 жыл бұрын
ive still love to see this dude's videos over something like LTT. Way more calm and way more informative.
@zabe48844 жыл бұрын
This guy should have 1 million subscribers.
@zakmoh58084 жыл бұрын
Another spectacular video review. All aspects covered in precision, mind blowing camera work and lighting. Most importantly, all wrapped up in less than 10 minutes. You really master the art of tech videos!
@TommyPanigale4 жыл бұрын
He really is a top notch content creator. Down to the facts. Beautiful camera work and lighting. Pumping out quality content Time and time again.
@termiguin14 жыл бұрын
The 3090 AIB models don't have to compete with the Founder's Edition because the Founder's Edition barely exists.
@TommyPanigale4 жыл бұрын
I gotta say that your content is really awesome. Just found your channel a couple months ago when I started planning my next build. I’m really looking forward to you fitting the 3080 FE in the NCASE. I’ve largely modeled my build against your “mini 16 core beast” -ryzen 9 3900XT -kraken x53 -Corsair SF750 -STRIX X570-i -ballistix 2x16gb 3600 c16 -NCASE M1 v6.1 -preordered 2x Samsung 980 Pro 1TB M.2 pcie gen4 -patiently awaiting a 3080 FE Your channel is on my list of favorite pc building channels. Can’t wait to see what you do next!
@BoBBaB0oN4 жыл бұрын
I want to see this card in one of your ITX build. I cant wait to see it
@virtualmirage76904 жыл бұрын
I managed to get the RTX 3090 FE to fit in my Fractal Design Node 804 case, so that might be another option for those looking at smaller cases. You do need to remove the front air filter temporarily during the installation process. But once past the lip of the case, install is easy. Now, you can’t fit a fan in the bottom front with this card installed. But the top front fan still works and there is plenty of ventilation below, in front, and behind the card to allow for decent ventilation.
@Verdino994 жыл бұрын
Just got a ncase m1 today. Very excited to build my first small form factor pc. Thanks for the inspiration. Keep up the great work.
@hellriderx9412 жыл бұрын
it is like he has been foreseeing EVGA ending partnership with his comment about the FE Edition being too good and cheap for board partners to compete, when they give the exact same reason.
@untitleditem23344 жыл бұрын
props on the thumbnail my dude, best picture of a 3090 FE currently on the internet
@davinhunt75584 жыл бұрын
Salvo Studios S403 should fit both of these 2-3 slot cards nicely, and has flow through air pass through on both sides of the case.
@Paul-if1jq3 жыл бұрын
I have a 3090 FE it’s a great design, and clocks very well. Sits at 68 degrees, most of the time-stock, but an under volt see’s that at 60-61degrees; core at 1875. It can run at 1950-2100, average of 70-74 degrees, perhaps I could undervolt that, but not tried...
@CrustyAbsconder4 жыл бұрын
We need a new motherboard format in 2021. I think we only need two memory slots on a budget build. We need stronger thicker motherboards. We need the main pci-e4 slot to not have anything significant around it, especially the chipset. We need four front USB headers. I like having the power connections horizontal.
@gavinspear47904 жыл бұрын
i think out of all the different PC tech channels, your is definitely the most aesthetically pleasing
@felixm.89104 жыл бұрын
Alphacool, Bykski and EK Waterblocks already have Blocks for the reference design (that is not the founders edition) but EK seems to be working on something "special" for the 3080 FE and 3090 FE, according to their newsletter.
@Jubesta4 жыл бұрын
Great video! But what about sf750? Is it enough for rtx3090?
@makatron4 жыл бұрын
I've never been a fan of casse glass side panels but these FE cards are meant to be displayed. I'm planning to get the 3090 not because I need more than a 3080 but because I want to.
@sushimshah28964 жыл бұрын
Awesome design & glad they didn't charge extra for the FE cards. Just wish they gave the 3070 a similar (not exactly the same, but similar) treatment
@PutinIsKing4 жыл бұрын
If you apply liquid metal to those FE coolers you can actually get -10C°
@MrLincoln874 жыл бұрын
I hope to see AIBs take note of the rear exhaust, just means 1/3-1/2 the fins need to face the rear, and maybe the rest face the mobo/side of the case ? You can see in GN's testing how much heat comes out the rear, and then that heat isn't recirculated back into the gpu, the case, and then the cpu I do love the triple slot bracket, I mean if you're going for that 2.75-3 slot cooler, why bother with 2 slot bracket.. I would imagine it would provide more support too, even without the extra weight of the card it would be a good idea for sure
@tash13304 жыл бұрын
Could you please do testing in the FormD T1 🙏 It should barely fit. Mount the card to the case back panel first, install the struts then put the case front panel
@pontojotape4 жыл бұрын
great vid, you're getting me to log in on yt just to look if you have new videos
@dwindeyer4 жыл бұрын
8:00 The reality is that I don't think they can. Given the rumours of a cashback being offered to AIBs to get the cards out at the current price, it seems to me that nVidia wanted to control the launch media cycle with a high quality product that was never supposed to be sold at that price. After the dust settles we will be in a 2080Ti situation again where the cards are sold for above MSRP. I got my order in at launch pricing (still waiting for stock) but I don't have confidence pricing will stay there.
@TheSpacemanSpliff4 жыл бұрын
These cards are also extremely appealing to Pimax 8KX VR enthusiasts. This type of card is needed to run the native 4K VR screens at a solid framerate.
@ericdayofficialyt4 жыл бұрын
I'm surprised you didn't recommend the Cooler Master NR200 as a good "compact" case to use for the 3090
@azzwhupin3 жыл бұрын
does this monster fit ?
@triadwarfare4 жыл бұрын
8:04 The answer to your question is: They don't... at least in most countries. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone selling the FE model here in the Philippines.
@francisabraham4 жыл бұрын
Thank you, waiting for your next video on thermals, hopefully you will include 3080 in different configuration for thermal testing.
@saturapt32294 жыл бұрын
The thing I really hate about the FE is the 12 to 2x8 pin connector, this connector looks so cheap... I hope we will be able to fin some better looking ones in the future
@TITANSofTheEARTH4 жыл бұрын
I planned to put one 3090fe in my sliger. But first - the against the wall airflow! Second the pricing makes no sens for on like me upgrading every generation. The performance difference between 3080 and 3090 is way to small. So a 3080 strix oc goes in my sliger sm580.
@TheSatanicGamerFromHell3 жыл бұрын
I dont get why people get the founder edition is it any better or worse then buying it from a manufacturer like gigabyte Asus or Rog? Just to name a few
@darkmanure2 жыл бұрын
Watching your video a year later to see what to expect for the 4090 since it's at a similar wattage. I know there will be differences, but the coolers are nearly identical.
@JohnSmith-rn3vl4 жыл бұрын
Would be a good idea to also mention that you cannot use a splitter from the power supply. Has to be 2 separate 12v rails going into the 3090 splitter.....Small detail. Awesome review.
@_TheAntagonist_4 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see you try this and the non Nvidia models of the 3090 in various SFF builds. I'm curious what itx cases can even accommodate this beast.
@megapet7774 жыл бұрын
I love the design. Just wish I had money for new gaming pc.. Edit: This shot is so beautiful: 7:04
@GMMReviews4 жыл бұрын
Try building an ITX build with the 3090.
@AlexandreWill4 жыл бұрын
This Founder's Edition is really cool for the Lian Li TU150, isn't it? I love this case. 😅
@HiTechLoLife4 жыл бұрын
I see it on a regular ATX board but what does it look like attached to a mini ITX board?
@zipiaro4 жыл бұрын
excuse me but on 1:50 is a black chromax nhds15 right?
@mattwright62494 жыл бұрын
The Asus 3080 Tuf I got seems to be kicking some serious butt... but Red Dead 2 still cant have every slider maxed at 4k and obtain 60fps. I know this because I own one. With the Ryzen 7 3700x, 32GB of fast DDR4, NVME SSD, RTX 3080 setup some things still need to be turned down. I wonder if the 3090 would allow a person for the first time in history slide everything to max and play at 60fps. Would make for a good video.
@NmsOnetk04 жыл бұрын
Can you please look into the Streacom DA2 v2 that now adds support for this card?
@odinsplaygrounds4 жыл бұрын
So excited for the next video haha.
@bertraminc94124 жыл бұрын
ITX is really where quality builders are going these days. I would thing the market would support more of a specific card for ITX builds from nvidia.
@nicholewilliams64644 жыл бұрын
8:00 There is a good chance NVIDIA only developed the costly FE cooler to get good 30-series reviews and doesn't intend to make FE cards available in high volume, in which case, partners don't really need to compete with the FE.
@riba22334 жыл бұрын
True
@winstonbritto27894 жыл бұрын
Can you review the ID-COOLING IS-47k. It looks like a higher compatible version of the Alpenföhn Black Ridge. So it would be great to look at its thermal performance compared to the Alpenföhn Black Ridge.
@davidjd1234 жыл бұрын
whats crazy is i preordered the conswole when i first saw the design of the 3090, but then i chanced my order to wait to see what you say and or make. and dam i should have trusted my judgment and now i have to wait 10 days more lol.
@telostia4 жыл бұрын
How did u managed to get that 3kaud fe edition? Thought they weren't released in Australia
@leoliu86174 жыл бұрын
TechTubers would always get these cards 1st hand, that is how card manufactures advertise their products.
@mitchhayes7114 жыл бұрын
Hi Ali, Quite irrelevant to the video, but would you know how often Louqe restocks throughout the year Oceania people? I've been waiting quite awhile for the case to come back in stock, however, unsure of when they usually drop. Also, great video!
@Jas75204 жыл бұрын
I want a founders edition for numerous reasons, including price, but in Australia we only got a tiny lottery run of cards. Real shame
@Dhaydon754 жыл бұрын
Aftermarketed quad slots might have to be to compete
@eggyrepublic4 жыл бұрын
Do you recommend installing a 3080 above or below my current card? I'm thinking below since the card on the bottom will stay the coolest and I want that to be the faster one, but it will end up blowing hot air straight into my upper card with the flow through design whereas my old card will at least blow the hot air sideways instead of directly up.
@Noah-Lach4 жыл бұрын
Imagine this beast with a giant passive heatsink like the Mac Pro GPUs. Now that would be something to behold.
@thaddeus24474 жыл бұрын
I wish to get 3090 for retail price... 1500$ is like 1270eur.. meanwhile in reality in my country even at shop price is around 2k eur... sad
@DillonBrannick4 жыл бұрын
That isn't Europe's retail price though, the US price I don't think includes tax unlike all (I think) eu listed prices. Also minimum wage in the US is also likely less than your country, so the average income is probably less (but I could be wrong on that) so a US based person buying the card probably feels a similar pain you would. Not sure where the 2 grand is coming from unless you mean scalpers, but at least for me it's listed at 1399 pounds on their site, so 1530 euro, but of course it's not in stock I believe just like in the US, so that's likely a problem for everyone. It would be nice if it was 1270euro though
@thaddeus24474 жыл бұрын
@@DillonBrannick my country salary is 4x less than USA for same work.. so no.. we pay a lot more here in europe
@DillonBrannick4 жыл бұрын
@@thaddeus2447 fair enough, sorry for getting that wrong, that is wild, actually just looking at the spread of average salary across eu countries and it's a pretty huge gap from top to bottom, didn't realise how much incomes varied on average.
@karim14854 жыл бұрын
@@thaddeus2447 damn, where are you from?
@thaddeus24474 жыл бұрын
@@DillonBrannick My salary is 1.2k eur. And it considered a lot here. Minimum wage here is 400eur..
@adampsyreal4 жыл бұрын
I am loving my 3090 FE. I mine Ethereum while playing Android games in Bluestacks & browsing the internet. The card does stay very cool.
@owusuphilipable3 жыл бұрын
Hey I just got 3090 FE what setup do U have
@RotoGluOn3 жыл бұрын
The memory chips thermals are terrible though... You should have mentioned that because in any game that's stressing the memory, the fans will go to 100% even when the GPU is not really hot (around 65 °C) because the memory will reach up to 110 °C and throttle ! Most 3090 FE owners are "re-padding" the card so that the memory chips run cooler but I find that really disappointing for such a "high end" card to have such an major issue... I'm basically waiting for some high end thermal pads and I'm planning to go to liquid cooling later on if it's not good enough on the memory thermals aspect side of things. I can't stand the noise of the blower at 100%, not to mentioned it's already becoming really annoying starting from 70%... Good performance though, but I'm still kinda annoyed by the fans in some games...
@intech78633 жыл бұрын
I got this fe yeah NVIDIA could put better termal pads for now i not plan to change them too risky for me
@bobmamipoko4 жыл бұрын
Can you try fit this in an Ncase M1? We want more videos!
@treefiddy7274 жыл бұрын
Good. Glad to see the FE not looks better but performs better thermally and acoustically than MSI's top of the line more expensive Trio. I passed up the chance to get the MSI Ventus 3090 at launch, iirc they were in stock for 15 minutes at BestBuy before going OOS. Nope, gonna wait for an FE
@chrizbeee4 жыл бұрын
How is this going to find in my ITX case? :'( Btw: Can you do a Jonsbo V8 build?
@Neopulse004 жыл бұрын
I wonder if it'll fit well in a Coolermaster NR200.
@enjoygk7734 жыл бұрын
Hi Please clarify whether one will be able to fit Nvidia's RTX 3090 founder's edition in ThinkStation P620. It has 4 PCIE slots and their launch video shows 4 nvidia rtx 4000 plugged in ?
@ImDembe4 жыл бұрын
This might be the first time i would take the FE 3090 over the aftermarket, smart and good cooling and looks good to but i never look inside of my chassi anyway...
@dieselvallirio6134 жыл бұрын
Can I use the ZZAW B6 for a build around this card? I have the A4, want a bigger case for proper cooling like the M1. Thanks for the great content.
@NikhilTalksTech4 жыл бұрын
Never clicked so fast in my life. Wish I had this power on the RTX 3080 Launch day to buy a card to review on my channel XDDD
@etemkaandelibas36494 жыл бұрын
Ok spam bot
@NikhilTalksTech4 жыл бұрын
@@etemkaandelibas3649 Im not a bot idiot
@selmonbhoi47314 жыл бұрын
Bhai tum India mein rehte ho ya fir India ke Bahar?
@NikhilTalksTech4 жыл бұрын
@@selmonbhoi4731 I stay in India
@selmonbhoi47314 жыл бұрын
@@NikhilTalksTech fir toh bura mat manna bhai lekin yeha pe toh honest yters ko toh 1000 subs nahi milte. The scammers get 100000 subs easily while providing paid review. U have started ur career at a young age which is good but, you will have to work harder than other yters. And I watched a few of ur vids. They are great but, u should try changing ur intro as it is overused and old.
@DanDan-li4hr4 жыл бұрын
hope you can do custom rx 3000 cooling with air tower cooler
@zpetrovic4 жыл бұрын
Would Lian Li TU150 be able to fit this behemoth inside? With this much power GPU rendering based ITX WS sounds very tempting.
@Sarcasmka144 жыл бұрын
Thanks sir🙏
@titaniummechanism32144 жыл бұрын
I can't wait for you to slap a waterblock on a 3090 and build an ITX PC around that! Or maybe a personal rig upgrade? That card would need some serious radiator area though!
@jasoncuellar87374 жыл бұрын
nothing related to the vid but relevant for future case reviews/mods. Have you ever thought of streaming on twitch or youtube the building process? your vids are very structured and organized that it'd be nice to hear you unfiltered plus the process of making ITX builds come to life is an interesting one
@Mahm00dM0hanad4 жыл бұрын
So which 3090 can fit in the Ncase M1 without water cooling ❓
@davidjd1234 жыл бұрын
it will fit allot of the sliger cases .
@michaelmistaken28634 жыл бұрын
1:31 Overhead and headroom mean different things. *cries*
@quonslecn77554 жыл бұрын
Does anyone know the monitor model on the desk at 0:29? I think it's an LG... but model would be appreciated
@metrovoyage86953 жыл бұрын
3090 asus strix is the best version but to me founders edition looks the cleanest
@Xenthorx4 жыл бұрын
The 3090 Gaming X Trio cost 200euros more than the 3090 Founder in France, totally not worth the price difference it seems.
@GameFreakuser4 жыл бұрын
I imagine that a lot of ITX cases would require you to slap a waterblock on this card to fit in them.
@lincolnm2674 жыл бұрын
Ali can you do a video on frame rate capping and it's effects on reducing thermals and fan noise? Generally, not specifically 3090 related
@emiel2554 жыл бұрын
I am wondering what the cooling perfomance would be if you were to put this massive heatsink shroud of the 3090 on the 3080 GPU
@jonathanbuck25644 жыл бұрын
If this review teaches me one thing, it’s that size does matter. But, you can’t just be long, you need some girth too.
@vincelicas24224 жыл бұрын
SFF case manufacturers need to start making new cases
@kasimirdenhertog35163 жыл бұрын
$1500...! Imagine what you can buy with that! Wait... what? A 3070? 😳
@zhanghao54724 жыл бұрын
The fan noise of FE is better than the other one.
@bernardgalimba81444 жыл бұрын
Is this gonna fit ncase m1 because I ordered the newer version im not sure of its gonna fit it because I make a purchase ty in advance
@josiahjones76544 жыл бұрын
You should try to deshroud the tuf 3080 and 3090 to see if its possible and If its worth doing
@LouFourquet4 жыл бұрын
Any word if the 3090 FE physically fits into the FormD T1 yet?
@KillerMoth71214 жыл бұрын
Any thoughts on the rtx 3080 crash issues?
@Kathdath4 жыл бұрын
AIB were cheaping out on components for the reference designs.
@EliasEH894 жыл бұрын
Aarav Gupta watch jayztwocents video
@alexandruhanganu42944 жыл бұрын
Amazing content as always! Anybody knows the name of the green leaves wallpaper in the background? Thanks!
@DomoNicoNii4 жыл бұрын
God these past few videos is like an epic build up to a conclusion I can't wait for. Either gonna be real disappointed or happy. Seen some pictures on the FormD reddit, but will be great to see in video. Can't wait for the next one!
@johnkon28104 жыл бұрын
You missed a 3rd group who would be interested in this card: Artists (art, music, video, ect)!!! 1500.00 is far cheaper than your average Quadro at 6000.00. If you could SLI two 3090's you would have the same amount of memory as a RTX8000, yet save 2K. Obviously, I'm strictly speaking of memory contained within the cards. I am NOT debating other benefits a 3090 or a RTX8000 may or may not have.