Rugby’s Greatest Unions: Guscott & Carling

“Rugby’s Greatest Unions” returns with England's formidable centre pairing of Jeremy Guscott and Will Carling. Starting 44 times together, between 1989 and 1996, they would win 3 Five Nations Grand Slams.
0:01 - Show Intro
0:51 - Show Starts
1:31 - Will & Jeremy join us
3:37 - Swapping Numbers
8:37 - First-ever meeting in 1988
12:14 - Relationship with forwards
15:10 - Captain Will
30:15 - Best Rugby
35:22 - 'We were never mates'
42:23 - Mr Blobby & Gladiators
49:02 - Working & Playing
50:27 - Best Centre Partnership played against?
58:16 - A different era
1:02:06 - Reunion
Season 4 of The Good, The Bad & The Rugby is sponsored by Continental Tyres.
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[@barryharrison3254]

Absolutely loved listening to those guys` memories just about as much as I loved to watch them play. Awesome show.

[@vinylrulesok8470]

The greatest England centre partnership. Carling was hugely underrated, he was tough, uncompromising and the perfect foil for the majestic Guscott

[@kellychaouki7202]

Fantastic show loved listening to their stories, was a great era of Rugby, ❤🤩😍

[@jamesharrington809]

Irishman here. Seeing these two together brings back horrible memories. Two of the best to ever play the game.

[@struancochrane753]

I can echo that as a Scotsman

[@phalanx-it]

If it makes you feel any better - I feel exactly the same when I see BOD and D’Arcy!

[@Wolf-hh4rv]

Nah average can think of loads of AB Springbok sides where they wouldn’t have been selected

[@rowleybirkin3093]

@@Wolf-hh4rvyaaaaaaaaaawn

[@struancochrane753]

​@Wolf-hh4rv So can I, but thats not the point, of their time they were a formidable pairing, and were instrumental in a huge improvement in what was a poor England side in the late 1980's.

[@GangaZumba]

Ackford & Dooley

[@adamdaniel5119]

I once walked into Gatwick Airport behind Carling, about 15 years ago or so. He was in shorts and his calf muscles were the size of grapefruits. He must have still worked out like hell at the time. Coincidentally Guscott walked past me at Paddington and lit a cigarette and I was stunned to see he was a smoker. Neither of them recognised me of course (well I am Welsh).

[@michaeleaston3531]

Two .. Complete Gentlemen .. Representing all the good values .. Of the Game ..

[@JB-xd9dr]

Yes. Fabulous. My generation so lots of great memories. Thx. Wish Jerry would let will speak a bit more! :)

[@nicholasfallowfield4379]

Loved this show and such fun to listen to these two again. Awesome players and part of a great era for English rugby. My youth was spent watching this team in the pub on many a Saturday. The loss to Scotland in 1990 was such a shame because we then won back to back grand slams, but with zero risk "stuff it up the jumper" rugby. The talents of Carling, Guscott and Underwood/s were largely then ignored.

[@Solicitor1957]

Brilliant show and lovely men all. Really enjoyed it, thank you 👨‍🦳

[@robw7676]

In my family we still compare every outside centre who can pick a line and glide through it untouched to Guscott.

[@PAHAMILTON49]

One of the best. Thank you both for the memories you gave me, and so many others who think so much about 'our sport'.

[@Oakeybloke]

Legends of the game. Enjoyed listening to that, as I looked up on my shelf at the Guscott signed ball that I won in a raffle over 30 years ago 🙂 The PR run for the '91 world cup got me into rugby, must've been around '89/90, when I was 7. Best thing that could've happened to that quiet, timid kid, with possible anger issues lol. Was lucky to have such great team mates, makes me smile just thinking about it.

[@navinseneviratne139]

“We kick off left” 😂😂😂

[@garryevans1965]

Proper laugh out loud moments - favourite show ever!

[@mosese1111]

England’s greatest centre pairing - admittedly never won that RWC in 1991 or 1995. But contextually when you look at where English rugby was when they both came along, they and that 90s team made huge strides to take England from a fairly mediocre team to being the best in Europe (3 Grand Slams in 5 years) and still able to beat NZ (1993), Australia (1995) and South Africa (1992) along the way. It could be argued that the team of Carling, Guscott, Underwood, Teague etc made the foundation for Clive Woodward’s England later. Carling and Guscott, truly legends of the game🙏🏾😎😍

[@stephenreeds3632]

England should have won 1991 but were psyched out of it by dear old Campo. Aus played just like Eng had done and if course won.

[@kezzert21]

Thank you, both 😀

[@jimmeryellis]

Great show, thankyou. My first memory of Will Carling was as i was walking back from a rugby pitch after a game i'd watched. It was a prep school competition when i saw this barrel shaped kid carry three opponents over the tryline to score a try. I thought at the time he should have been a prop forward, but obviously i was wrong.

[@dubroyale]

Absolutely brilliant! Thankyou

[@treebeard4873]

Wonderful. Very good idea... And as a red rose follower so great to see those two together talking about the good old days. Big shout out to GBR. again. Thanks. ❤

[@RobertDixonTaylor]

Many thanks GBR... What a fab episode!!

[@russellgodfrey9677]

Great show guys! Two of my idols when I was at school, been lucky to met Jerry on a few occasions to! Thanks for a great GBR

[@markrobinson1369]

Both great players and great guys

[@colinhefferman5498]

Fantastic. Icons of the game. Years ago I saw Will Carling in a bar in the city of London and he was with Martin Bayfield and Mike Gatting. Will Carling was leaning against the bar with a cup and saucer drinking tea. We had a brief chat. Nice bloke. Very humble.

[@adriankinsler1504]

Really enjoyable watch, many thanks.

[@petelewis6920]

Great episode. Thanks all.

[@N1ck0A]

That was fantastic lads 👏🏻

[@IanHaywardCalvados]

Wonderful memories - thank you

[@paulcoomber4009]

Great to hear from a top combination of players when rugby was a game of skills. Unlike the crashing of behemoths in today's game

[@MrMdebenham]

Great to see these two together chatting with input from Mike occasionally hard to believe will is 58 what’s his secret? Could listen to them all day good guys!

[@crystallineentity]

Excellent show, thank you!

[@user-sd3hb6ru1w]

Carling makes a good point. Because he was made captain so young, and for so long, we didn’t get to see him play without the responsibility. He was a superb centre, powerful and fast. But he has this thrust upon him so young. Guscott had all the natural talent in the world. Interesting Hask wasn’t on this podcast having slagged Guscott off in his book, claiming he didn’t tackle like a modern centre, I think he said something about Carling too? Total bollocks Hask. These two were defensively brilliant.

[@robertburton4622]

Just brilliant!!!!!!!

[@ldfreitas9437]

Jeremy Guscott had that Barry John ability to just ghost through defenders.

[@charliesmith1895]

More of this please. So many partnerships I’d love to listen to from back in the day.

[@markrobinson1369]

A great watch guys, Thank you😊

[@DuncanSouster]

Legends! Will Carling was my hero when I played. So good to listen to them. Happy days

[@petercoles373]

Really enjoyed this. Really good show.

[@Badlighter]

Brilliant. It would have been great if it was a longer podcast with Alex talking with Will and Jerry

[@RichSimmons-ee2rf]

Excellent

[@edhawkins6741]

Great that, thank you.

[@OnlyADownstat]

awesome show

[@user-lt9lh9ym6o]

I read his biography and thought what an aloof person, however er when I met him and helped him whe his motor cycle broke down, he was good compa y and a good laugh😊

[@dazbeale586]

Apart from Horan and Little there has never been a better centre partnership. Will was a great player and was and still is hugely underrated as Captain of England and for what he did for the sport in general, he was more than just the poster boy! As for Gerry - Class act who I wished had played for Bristol and not Barf!

[@therealmrfishpaste]

Conrad Smith and Ma'a Nonu? Jean De Villiers Jacque Fourie? Aaron Mauger and Tana Umaga?

[@marcdaniels9079]

@@therealmrfishpaste Kriel and Deallande

[@user-gv6vj7xw4u]

Little and Bunce?

[@Harry-Paritestis]

Smith & Nonu Henderson & O’Driscoll Bunce & Little Dawes & Gibson

[@GoodBadRugby]

0:01 - Show Intro 0:51 - Show Starts 1:31 - Will & Jeremy join us 3:37 - Swapping Numbers 8:37 - First-ever meeting in 1988 12:14 - Relationship with forwards 15:10 - Captain Will 30:15 - Best Rugby 35:22 - 'We were never mates' 42:23 - Mr Blobby & Gladiators 49:02 - Working & Playing 50:27 - Best Centre Partnership played against? 58:16 - A different era 1:02:06 - Reunion

[@andrewgirdlestone7607]

Bear in mind this was well before the pro era for all of these guys (except perhaps France) given the Captaincy at 22 Bum Face must of faced a lot of issues not just from the media but from his own team, well established forwards who had their own way of doing things, it’s alluded to in this that Dooley in a team meeting when BF said kick off to the right no left… then Jerry supports him with it was good idea most people are right handed so to KO to the right would have them using left hands, a great partnership, I loved that era

[@YARROWS9]

I remember at a rugby anniversary night.Finlay Calder ( Winning British Lions Captain Australia 89) saying how good these two players were to play with, and against. Jeremy Guscott was just one of those immense talents, that appear from time to time. He said.

[@andrewgroom2924]

When you get to the lions please do BOD and Dr Jamie Roberts

[@MrKelso85]

As a Welshman from a country with barely any private Schools! The private school Rupert connection between these two demonstrated the best of Colonial Britain !

[@davidgates3498]

What a great episode. These two were part of an England team that convinced me that rugby was bad on football. Can you please get Rory Underwood on next time and maybe his brother.

[@timmywilson]

Guscott drop goal lions. But would love to hear about that game against NZ in the World Cup and Jonah Lou

[@jeff3175]

Great insights there and a really good concept. Hopefully you can do Leonard,Moore and Probyn.

[@gordonmonaghan133]

Never realised that Ricky Gervais formed a centre partnership with Guscott!

[@timchallacombe8615]

Pleased to see players from this era on a rugby podcast

[@Badlighter]

They played in an era of great international centres. Would have been nice to have had the response to the best centre partnership they came up against without Mike Tindall’s curious qualification of the question. Would be great to have Will and Jerry back on again, perhaps next time with Alex and Will Greenwood- the latter having played in the tail end of the same era.

[@bobbysflying3369]

That was great. But don’t get how Phil DG didn’t get brought up. Or even Stuart Barnes.

[@amarofpatel]

Guscott and Carling complemented each other well in midfield. Shame we didn't hear more about the 1991 World Cup final. My recollection is that in the build-up to that game the team had been repeatedly criticised for a lack of creativity and cutting edge. Then we saw a clear shift in playing style in that final. There's an argument that if they had been a little more pragmatic, kept it tight, they could have pushed Australia closer. Apparently, Jason Leonard mentioned in his autobiography that both Moore and Winterbottom kept on telling Carling that the tactics needed to change as the English pack was clearly destroying the Australian pack up front.

[@user-sd3hb6ru1w]

We totally screwed up that final. We played a sort of anti-rugby with zero ambition, but it was very effective. For some reason we changed everything for that final and threw the ball about which the Aussies just spread out and defended. For all their flair up to the final the Aussies just scored an early try off a line out and drive, then shut up shop for the rest of the game. It was criminal that we didn’t go back to the 9 man approach that had worked so well, even if it was dull!! Also, it’s usually forgotten that England in that era wanted their 15 to be the place kicker. We totally ignored Andrew as a kicker for years which was bizarre as he was excellent. On the final Jon Webb froze and missed 12 points from the tee if u remember correctly. The Aussies were probably the best team of the tournament, but it still hurts 33 years later!

[@amarofpatel]

@@user-sd3hb6ru1w Excellent memory. How could I let Webb off the hook? You're right though. It was naive to change tactics like that so late in the day.

[@bainystaby]

Still love that the 1990 SCOTLAND grand slam still is a thorn in the psyche of those England players. Shame it didn’t have the same effect on the Scottish players in regards a winning psyche for the decades to follow

[@dalejeavons3074]

Will Carling, the Gerhard Schroder of the rugby world!

[@stephenreeds3632]

I loved the take on 1990. Scotland were, I think, going for a GS too so why were Eng favourites. It was a good case of kidding PR by the Scots.

[@jakhaughton1800]

I remember playing golf at the course near Bath racecourse. Guscott was playing and seemed a miserable sod.

[@CagedPaps]

This is the period I find the most interesting, that switch to the professional game but from the players who entered the game thinking it wasn't going to change. I was a kid but remember the Gotcha, remember Will being in the papers with his like to Princess Di etc. It's true that Will was almost Beckham level, was in the press all the time. Bit like the boxers of the time, Benn, Eubank, Bruno... Always on TV. The 57 old farts quote is a common pub quiz question. I'm a Scotland supporter but do remember I think it was the mid 90s, the England team essentially going on strike. Making it into the England squad I believe gave you benefits like a BT Cellnet phone and contract... Pretty mad that was seen as a benefit. For anyone who enjoyed the stories, lookup the hospitality videos Will's company hosts, a lot of ex players with some entertaining stories!

[@davewolfy2906]

The question that should have been asked - would you prefer to have played professionally?

[@ldfreitas9437]

The one I would have asked: do you think it should have come on gradually, with a semi-professional set up? Heck, in America we had the Amateur Athletic Union for most of the 20th Century. Many played in the amateur Olympics from that organization, for swimming, track and field, basketball, softball. Semi-professionalism was allowed. There were many corporate teams, especially in basketball. The RFU got it all wrong after 1895 and Harrogate. 5

[@phillipfairbrass3575]

Will Carling put his head down at Twickenham,got up at Buckingham palace

[@pfchim2012]

Great show and note who wasn’t there.

[@smudgersmith2650]

Quality pairing, don't think Carling gets the kudos he deserves.

[@markchristopher2373]

Duckham and Spencer?

[@user-sd3hb6ru1w]

How can Carlings hair be that dark??? We never got to see the best of these two as players because Rob Andrew chose to take the ball into contact, rather than pass to them.

[@marcdaniels9079]

WT ACTUAL F? Do you know anything about rugby

[@user-sd3hb6ru1w]

@@marcdaniels9079 Yes I do, do you? Rather than resort to WTF why don’t you give me an alternative point of view. I thought a lot of Andrew, I saw him play alongside these two many times, and therefore I offer my opinion. Offer yours as an alternative and ease up on the confrontational approach pal!

[@saschawickham7497]

The 9 man rugby we played conducted by Andrew was most successful. The reason we lost the 91 final is because we didn’t play that style.

[@user-sd3hb6ru1w]

Yes. I’ve said exactly the same on another post.

[@tobolee6385]

O Driscoll was only famous in the British press ...

[@davidbroadley2983]

If one compares the centres Guscott, Greenwood and O'Driscoll on paper there is no comparison. The Prince of centers leads narrowly from Greenwood. Yet the eternally hailed BOD dropped from Lions for lack of performance is still touted as the greatest? Please explain.

[@davidridersmith5434]

Mellowed a lot with age…

[@davidlyons2425]

21 years ago I met Guscott in a bar. I had a “few” beers in me and I told him I want anyone else but England to win the RWC (2003). My final line was I can’t stand England 😂. Years after, I always wondered why the hell did I waste my chance to have a proper conversation with rugby legend. Listening to Guscott in this, it is obvious he is full of himself/love’s himself, and comes across as a ➡️🔔🔚

[@saschawickham7497]

I think this comment says more about you than Guscott😂

[@rowleybirkin3093]

Great public confession of being a 🔔 end

[@tobolee6385]

Glad they mentioned danie gerber ...best player ever ...Sad the youngsters of today dont know him ...power and speed never seen since .. he was 38 when carling saw him ...

[@cliveperrett730]

Jerry Guscott wouldn’t get near the England squad today. His silky skills no longer valued by today’s collision culture.

[@alexholden1345]

Disagree most 13s need to have an outside break, that’s the most important attribute even now. However with the introduction of professionalism players have got more physical. If Guscott played now he would prob be near 100kgs otherwise he would get ran over too often in defence.

[@mosese1111]

Completely disagree - Guscott almost invented the outward swerve in the centres and was a skilful player too (solid in defence, fantastic hands, raw pace etc). If anything, 13 is the one position we don’t have cemented in England atm so ofc Jerry gets near the team at least.

[@jimmeryellis]

Rodney Trotter had pretty much the same skillset as Guscott mithinks. Though i don't remember Will with a drop goal.

[@chrisp4170]

@@mosese1111He was very good, but that complement is deserved by the great Mike Gibson of Ireland

[@chrisp4170]

Sorry but absolutely disagree. What about Barry John either?

[@andrewtanner7891]

Nothing has changed, RFU still run by incompetents as witnessed by the damage they continue to do to the community game.

[@jule1934]

Cmon - they weren't that good.

[@Wolf-hh4rv]

A very average centre pairing

[@GG-tc8cr]

🤣🤣🤣