Running Netscape Navigator on Windows 10?

[@GeekIWG]

Fun Fact: There is still some code from Netscape Navigator being used in Firefox.

[@xXdawgXx]

The more you know

[@Bug110]

@Martin Dawson quake 1 code is basically in every single fps game from 1995 onwards

[@p0wdrous]

@Martin Dawson quake code is everywhere, i wouldnt be suprised

[@jaiden051]

What part of Firefox uses the Netscape code?

[@TipsyHydra]

I use firefox

[@hydreg]

Fun fact for anyone reading comments on a year old video: the reason why webpages look so broken on older browser is this: in a huge simplification websites consist of three parts - html markup, which is basically content of a website, css markup which defines website layout and JavaScript scripts that handle interactions and animations on a website. From 2010 html and especially css went through rapid changes to accommodate for mobile devices. Those changes *somewhat* stabilized around 2014. Any browser that came before that point has significant chance of being unable to process that updated markup and will just ignore it. Many websites code their layouts mobile-first, which means mobile layout is loaded as default and desktop layout is added or replaced when a specific device size is detected, that's why those older browsers will sometimes show only mobile version since they can't process the markup that checks for device size and ignore the code that should be loaded there.

[@XeZrunner]

10:21 I think it froze up there because you clicked into the cmd and entered select mode. Programs pause while you're in select mode. You can just right click anywhere and it'll copy whatever you have selected and exit select mode.

[@laserspaceninja]

Came to say the same thing...I was screaming at the screen lol

[@reimarpb]

Pressing esc will also exit select mode without copying anything

[@wizdude]

The download speed isn’t slow - it’s “authentic” :-)

[@hajivideos9104]

Are you saying it was at that slow download speed back in the '90s? I am not from the '90s, so I'm just asking.

[@wizdude]

@@hajivideos9104 my first connection to the internet was using a 2400bps modem. That’s 0.002Mbps compared to today. I then upgraded across time to 14.4kbps, 28.8kbps and eventually 56Kbps (that’s 0.0576 Mbps). At these high speeds it only took around one hour to download a 25MB file. Compare that to my original 2400bps modem which could transfer about 1MB per hour.

[@wizdude]

@@hajivideos9104 56Kbps dialup was pretty much the norm back in the 90’s. You would dial up whenever you wanted to go online. Most houses had a single phone line so you wouldn’t be able to call your friends on the telephone if they were online. I used to have a second phone line just for the modem so I could stay connected for days and my friends could still contact me.

[@hajivideos9104]

@@wizdude so even 5 MB would be 5 hours?! Oh my god!!!! Would 24 MB be a whole day?! O_o Would 365 GB be a whole year?! Was 5 GB 5 days???? 😰

[@vdmir40]

@@hajivideos9104 kids

[@briantcideu8619]

There's something really cool about running old software in newer OS, it's a contrast between old and new.

[@RoverFlushed]

21:35 maybe its because the file is 0 KB lol edit: when I tried to download it was 0kb for me too. there is something with the site

[@mantot_123]

Rover can I pet you?

[@thatkindofboi9955]

assistant senpai notice me

[@JuvStudios]

Explorer only shows file sizes larger than a KB. If it displays 0KB doesn't mean that it's empty.

[@axolotl7067]

BRUH I DINT EVEN NOTICE YOU DID THE SAME THING😂😂😂

[@BilisNegra]

​@@JuvStudios Wrong. Windows rounds sub-kilobyte files up to 1KB in Explorer. Just create an empty new text document: It will show as a 0KB file in Details view. Now open it, enter a few characters and save: now it shows as a 1KB file (file properties will of course display the actual size in bytes).

[@michaeldavidryandanielpaul1990]

Just a few names that I took for granted around 1994-1996: Netscape Navigator, Pegasus Mail, Altavista, ICQ, Word Perfect 5.0 and ZIP Drive. I miss those days, also I feel old (46).

[@encycl07pedia-]

Zip disks were such a bad idea that the creators basically named them after an archive format. All they had to do was name it "Zippy" and it would be so much less confusing and fit with their "motto" of being fast, I guess. It always made me think they were compressing files instead of just copying them. You pretty much had to lug an external Zip drive around just to make sure other computers could read them. They were floppies when floppies were going out of style and didn't even fit in a floppy drive. Can you say Click of Death? Two thumbs way, way down on that technology.

[@Patti.K]

Don't forget Claris Works lol

[@Trehugindrtlvr1]

Dude - Netscape was dope! I remember when we upgraded from 28.8K to 56K dialup! And then, downloading a 4 minute illegal copy of a song only took 20 minutes! Someone needs to make a legit skin for Chrome.

[@Jurtaani]

21:45 What a legends hosting that page! not only do they offer you a way to experience old browsers, but also the download speeds appropriate to the day too.

[@KibblezanBitz]

I've got an addon for Firefox that has a Netscape logo in the addons section next to the address bar (where AdBlock and the like go) that plays the little loading animation when you load a webpage. Nostalgic.

[@nickjuly4A]

Considering how slow the Mcom servers are it makes me wonder if they are actually hosted on AOL's dial-up

[@WickerBasket9]

Chances are, they're probably still hosted on AOL's dial-up connection today in 2020!

[@coldacid]

@@WickerBasket9 @nickjuly4A more likely they're running out of the back room at DNA Lounge.

[@Huwitto]

Welp, he did it. Thanks for making a video on my suggestion!

[@Slinguh1111]

2nd

[@Slinguh1111]

bruh

[@SPNKR76]

@@Slinguh1111 forgot to switch accounts hmmmm?

[@Slinguh1111]

@gamerdog3345 No. I just wanted to say that.

[@superJK92]

SlingMine1 yah yah

[@avi12]

8:16 I'm actually a bit surprised that the generated HTML is using CSS instead of HTML elements

[@D.G.M.]

Mozilla was always promoting web standards back then.

[@0xffffffffffff]

There’s a switch under Preferences which allows you to control this behavior (i.e. generate either HTML attributes or inline CSS).

[@handlesrtwitterdontbelivethem]

i wanna compose my own webpage

[@ananttiwari1337]

@@handlesrtwitterdontbelivethem pretty easy, learn html and css, and js / php if you want to make the page actually do anything I don't think web - development is the best thing, but people think it's cool because it drives visible results more quickly

[@handlesrtwitterdontbelivethem]

im not gonna learn all that i need a easyier one which is wix but it has that stuped watermark

[@mattelder1971]

Keep in mind that even though the application itself might be 32-bit, the INSTALLER might be 16-bit. (edit: I typed that before I got to the point in the video where Michael realized that).

[@PFMediaServices]

Out of the many comments pointing this out before watching the whole video, you're the only one I've seen who's taken the time to acknowledge the prematurity of your observation. Props. 👍🍍

[@ilikemtrain]

It makes me remember the days of using Netscape 6.2 on my windows 98 PC as my main web browser.

[@benn454]

Same on Win2000 for me.

[@ZipplyZane]

Most likely, the installer for those 32-bit versions of Netscape is still 16-bit. That was common back in the day--they didn't rewrite the installer code since it would still run on 32-bit Windows. The app would still be 32-bit, though.

[@LiveUIClient5048]

he mentioned that but ok

[@s7an10]

10:27 I can see a cursor selection in the console window - maybe this has been blocking the process?

[@leo848]

stanio yes indeed

[@McDuffington]

Correct! I was about to make the same comment. It was 'frozen' because text was being selected. That pauses the process. All he had to do was click once in the console window to continue.

[@leo848]

Rolf I always press space because sometimes clicking just selects another letter/empty space

[@srideepprasad]

9:50 Most likely the installer is 16 bit or has some 16 bit components while the actual program is 32 bit. This was quite common in the late 90s and early 2000s.

[@encycl07pedia-]

Watch the whole video before commenting.

[@starleaf-luna]

@@encycl07pedia- no

[@encycl07pedia-]

@@starleaf-luna Your dog is smarter than you are.

[@tallikx]

Amazingly I still have some CD-ROM versions of Netscape Navigator/Communicator. They could use a new home though.

[@brokenelectronics3665]

There were a lot of memories in there, thank you! Odd that the archive tops out at 4.08, it was maintained up to 4,77. (There was a 4.8 release, but it was a third party update, not Netscape's work.) It's too bad you could not find Netscape 6, as that is the version that really killed Netscape. They were becoming desperate, 5 simply wouldn't work, and 4 was becoming so outdated that it was close to unusable. they decided to release 6, based on Mozilla Suite 0.6. It shooed some promise, but was far from usable on an everyday basis. Even most of the old line Netscape users abandoned ship, either to IE, or to later versions of Mozilla, which, as it got to the 0.9 range was quite usable. Netscape did release a 6.2, which was far better. Netscape 7, based on Mozilla 1.0, was a very, very good release, but it was simply too late. Anyhow, I really enjoyed reliving all this. I'll close with my old sig file from the newsgroup forums: Leonidas Jones Netscape/Mozilla Champion

[@alexsutton85]

I remember trying out Netscape 6 at the time, seemed to have massive resource usage if I remember considering the spec of PCs at the time, was so unstable, slow and bloated. Never bothered with Netscape again after that!

[@encycl07pedia-]

Netscape was so bad at the end. I think I used 7 or 8 just on a lark. It was typical of AOL to ruin everything they touched. It's funny considering they made AIM so successful. It was all for the best because Opera was so much better than any other browser out there... until they went to Chromium.

[@-GameHacKeR-]

10:01 what most likely is going on there is that the installer was 16bit, I've had a issue before with the installer of I believe Fahrenheit or Max Payne maybe both where I had to download a patched installer to get the game installed from my cd, The program like the games are 32bit but the installer is 16bit. They used install shield wizard as well.

[@Vlad-1986]

Stupid past developers not thinking about us, future 64 bit OS users

[@kingetan1646]

@@Vlad-1986 lol

[@034G63EVO]

Man,, I vividly remember downloading and using 2.02. I was a huge Netscape fan. I never minded being connected at like 9600kbps because I loved watching the animation lol

[@truely7744]

It's interesting seeing how old software works on modern computers, Netscape would've been the most used or 2nd most used browser for a couple more years if Microsoft didn't ship Windows with Internet Explorer. Same for Apple and their Safari. Great video though my dude. 👌

[@eDoc2020]

The reason why you always get an HTTP error when using Mosaic is it only supports HTTP 0.9. Most servers will only work with HTTP1.x.

[@CesareVesdani]

Netscape Navigator 9 is still good for casual web browsing even at this very day and age of times of Windows 10.

[@artexjay]

no it isn't

[@bobsobol]

Prior to 64-bit dropping 16-bit compatibility it was _recommended_ to make the setup for your 32-bit application run in 16-bit mode, so that it could, at least, run, identify your system was only 16-bit, and redirect you to a 16-bit version of the application. Very annoying, once Windows drops support for 16-bit, and you can't install any of your 32-bit applications any more, because the setup for the 32-bit app is 16-bit, and while you can run the 32-bit app on your 64-bit OS, you can't run the 16-bit setup... Which was a _big_ part of the "hate" that Vista got, because they recommended Vista 64-bit on anything that could run 64-bit, and even though 32-bit software would run on it, it wouldn't install.

[@jzero4813]

Yep - BUT, you can still get Win10 in 32-bit editions. I have a bunch of manufacturing systems that are currently running Win10 32-bit specifically because they still need some old 16-bit drivers and hardware (a stepper motor driver on an ISA card!), and that still works even today in 2021. The systems are special industrial motherboards with 3rd gen Core i7 CPUs and come with PCIe slots, legacy PCI slots, and legacy ISA slots.

[@corey7219]

I just finished watching your Netscape navigator video on how the browser rose to become the defacto web browser, before internet explorer ruined it. Now this video comes up all of a sudden. Wow!

[@_.themariodude]

Michael, the 2.02 Gold didn't work because it was an empty .exe file. I know because it was 0 KB

[@AyuNeko]

I loved Netscape Navigator. There is a successor to Netscape, it's called Seamonkey. I was able to import my Netscape profile in Seamonkey years ago, also my emails, etc. But Seamonkey is slooooow, but supposedly has the same engine as firefox

[@mjdxp5688]

These kinds of videos are my personal favorite!

[@jamiecullen9075]

Are you a guy or girl lol

[@babybear19791]

I remember using Netscape when I was going to a vo-tech school in 1998. The Netscape browser was open on all of the computers.

[@selfloop]

IE: You have last words? NN: Someday, someone will look for me and will find me... I hope you will also be long dead until then.. IE: Never... No.. Neverrr. I’m gonna live forever.... 2020: Okay we have a pandemic now and let’s go back to basics... NN: Wooohoooooo.... I’m aliveeee...

[@Ordlnary_Gamer]

God

[@Ordlnary_Gamer]

Ie still dead Drats how is he alive

[@Ordlnary_Gamer]

time to install windows 9x kernel virus

[@Ordlnary_Gamer]

Windows This file is not compatible

[@Ordlnary_Gamer]

Windows ie NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@uwu_peter]

21:34 Well it's only 0KB big, of course it's not gonna run

[@JuvStudios]

Explorer only shows file sizes larger than a KB. If it displays 0KB doesn't mean that it's empty.

[@uwu_peter]

@@JuvStudios I don´t think that Netscape 2 is less than 1 KB big while Netscape 1 and later Versions are well over a KB big. The file is empty or corrupted

[@SJGster]

If you have any interest in 3D stuff (I do, I've been obsessed since childhood), (some version of) Netscape 3 comes with a VRML 1 viewer, and (some version of) Netscape 4 comes with a VRML 2/VRML 97 viewer I believe. Netscape 3 also comes with the Netscape logo as a VRML 1 file.

[@TheNightTyrant]

Sooooo many memories watching this, Great content ✌️

[@ZipplyZane]

It also would be nice if you tried 16-bit Netscape on 32-bit Windows 10, because then you'd get the real Windows VDM instead of the one created for Wine (or one that hacked the original to make it run on amd64). You're willing to run an evaluation copy, so why not grab a free 32-bit version of Windows 10 without activating it? You are evaluating something--how well it can run 16-bit programs.

[@isaiasprestes]

Crazy! There is no limit in this channel, hahaha. I love it! :D

[@MilMike]

I remember using Netscape like it was yesterday. But it was ~30 years ago... damn time flies. :(

[@KingLich451]

wow... Respect.

[@insanitylol]

Idea: Netscape vs Internet Explorer Or another idea Windows 7 vs Windows 10

[@ronture8279]

What would the battle be?

[@igorthelight]

@@ronture8279 ACID3 test + HTML5 Test

[@ilikemtrain]

Customisation of User interface

[@igorthelight]

@@ilikemtrain With or without tweakers? ;-)

[@ilikemtrain]

@@igorthelight without :) Showing the real design of each windows

[@ErrorRaffyline0]

Final version of Netscape for Windows: 4.04 Well played devs

[@SinKillerJ]

I don't know if they still use the brand for this, but at one point I actually had Netscape dialup.

[@cannabine413]

I like the retro look I might just might start using it as my browser

[@BlameCez]

my condolences

[@atatopatato]

10:00 the installer is 16bit. The program itself is 32bit

[@EneaX6]

Honestly I can’t wait for you to hit 100K lol

[@theohallenius8882]

Just FYI, at 10:10 I think it froze because you have made a selection in your cmd, which can freeze the execution.

[@ТеодораКостоска]

yeah I had the same thought. It's one of these things you never expect to break stuff but they do and they go unnoticed

[@vanillafromnekopara]

When you are so early there are no funnny comments to steal - ImTheBoyReal

[@partydildo8563]

lol

[@Mudamir]

there is literally nothing on the youtube webpage Michael: "Yeah it works!"

[@VladTepesVEVO]

Suggestion for a video - would you make a retrospective on Winamp and the old versions? :D

[@igorthelight]

Winamp vs AIMP :-)

[@VladTepesVEVO]

@@igorthelight Winamp vs AIMP vs XMMS! ;)

[@igorthelight]

@@VladTepesVEVO Oh! Never knew about it! But I used Audacious on Linux :-)

[@ThatRandomFastingGuy]

It really kicks the Llamas Ass

[@jumbo999614]

I love Netscape logo the one with stars and ship navigation wheel.

[@real_yunicellular]

For being a 90s web browser, it looks surprisingly good.

[@gamethecupdog]

10:14 I think it could be that it's only the installers that are 16 bit, I had something like that happen with old computer games from when I was extremely young

[@wisteela]

It's amazing to see these running.

[@bobdole57]

Billy Mays here with another fantastic product

[@MindstabThrull]

Just saw this video in my feed and saw something (that might have already been brought up): Netscape version 2, the install file g32e202 has a file size of 0 KB. That suggests to me that the file never actually downloaded properly. Cool to see you getting Netscape running on a Win10 machine though!

[@sarowie]

it was "usual" back in the day to use 16bit installers for 32bit builds of a program. Where would be the problem in that? A 32bit CPU can run 16bit code and the installer runs only once and will not need much RAM.

[@Onion_Knights]

Ah.. the nostalgia. Still remember back in the days when i install this and browse on it.

[@hassan_dgf]

funny that u uploaded this cause i tried netscape yesterday on my pc lol

[@Luxgil]

otvdm crashes because the file you're trying to open has 0 KB.

[@VectraQS]

There is a massive (20GB) tarball of the Netscape FTP that you can download from Internet Archive. I downloaded the whole thing just to get version 4.77. If anybody wants a specific version, I might be able to offer it.

[@daemonspudguy]

Can I have that tarball link? EDIT: found a mirror.

[@zwz.zdenek]

You should have tried to browse a bit in the old versions. These browsers can often crash after viewing a page or two making them utterly unusable even for some obscure intranet application you might need them for.

[@DavidWonn]

Netscape Communicator 4.x can still be useful for its mail client if you still use POP3 even today, though I had to resort to XP Mode on Windows 7 to install. Its lack of Unicode makes scam e-mails stand out like a sore thumb. :-) Just disable images, JavaScript, cookies, and Java, and you’re good to go.

[@christianziebarth5649]

I miss Netscape Messenger.

[@sunightmcprivate]

21:40 The Netscape 2.02 Gold didn't work, because it was downloaded incorrectly, as you can see by the file size which is 0 Bites.

[@starleaf-luna]

bite it and make it 1 bite.

[@CarlosOsuna1970]

If I "owned" the Netscape brand TODAY, I would use it to create a series of Theme Parks with Roller Coasters and Rides, using the Netscape logo and animations... cause you would actually use them to "Escape the Net" that is, to go outside and play, instead of being on your phone with Instagram, Facebook or TikTok. It would be retro oriented and there would be a room filled with old PCs running Windows 98 and REAL NETSCAPE, but this would only be an installation on top of a ball pit for toddlers.

[@PashPaw]

2:50 Evolt should have had NS6 underneath the Communicator/32-bit folder.

[@tl1882]

"It's blue and it goes really fast, *_I T ' S B A S I C A L L Y S O N I C_* -Baby Joel

[@macecail]

xd

[@malcolmcampbell1968]

I loved news groups on Netscape...

[@DivergentDroid]

There used to be a theme that made Seamonkey look just like Netscape but it's gone now. I love and still use Seamonkey because I Loved Netscape!

[@poncecaribe6227]

I love Netscape browser. It was 100 times better than Internet Explorer. As a matter of fact, I still use my 3 email from Netscape. I wish someone bring it back.

[@retrodevdroid3670]

The best thing about the Netscape Browser was the Composer. I still use it sometimes.

[@DevynCairns]

Oh my god I remember this version of Netscape! I always thought it was a cool interface

[@wchandle1]

Remember, lots of early 32 bit software used a 16bit setup.exe installer!

[@nikolaislater705]

Netscape navigator is sort of still around. Firefox is an offshoot of mosaic.

[@TombstoneChris]

So I have a question. is it possible for someone to take one of these old versions of Netscape go into the source code and somehow make it able to be able to work today on modern computers and display modern websites correctly? I think it would be cool as hell to use Netscape in 2020 fully.

[@minty360]

that'd be sick!

[@walkingonneedles]

seamonkey still has the modern theme from netscape 7 included to this day! such a pretty theme

[@nickiminajwannabe]

If you select something in CMD the process gets paused

[@yarioo]

5:03 thank me later if you don’t want an exam of words in your face

[@HenningGu]

This video was planned for three days. See the uploaded 6 hours ago at 0:01 :D

[@YesInMyBackyard]

many 32 bit apps used 16bit installers so that if you try to load them on 16bit systems it would error in way that made more sense to users

[@blainepalmerza]

Awesome video, Michael!

[@MichaelMJD]

Thanks!

[@Unknownname315]

I read this as “Awesome video, MrBeast!”

[@art2k179]

That buddy list looks pretty cool to me

[@handlesrtwitterdontbelivethem]

it can work on pheonix servers if u click setup connections and edit connecion then server up aslong u have a account

[@David-fm6go]

I used the 7.2 think at home on a dial up connection in 2002. I also remember it being used at school in some capacity.

[@jamesperih9658]

The installers were often still 16-bit.

[@looeee]

the installer bootstrapper was 16 bit so that it could display a sensible error message if you tried to run it on 16 bit windows. It would then launch the 32bit part

[@jargon343]

Very nice video, thank you Michael!

[@MichaelMJD]

You're welcome!

[@lenadams854]

@@MichaelMJD please draw a reimagining of NCSA Mosaic named "Mosaic Explorer" by June this year, and post it to community please.

[@Shadowdane]

21:09 Yah that won't install because your Netscape 2.0 installer is 0kb. Looks like your download likely timed out.

[@034G63EVO]

I also remember playing around with the NCSA Mosaic in around '94 ?

[@ashtong85]

Now its time for the 1st web browser

[@Caseytify]

Various versions of Navigator, including 4.x are available at winworldpc. Can't say if they're complete.

[@rustymixer2886]

Why not Netscape 9.0.1 might load KZbin html 4 or 5

[@Thanos.m]

I actually found navigator 9 easily and surprisingly it is still able to load quite a few things

[@DestructiveBurn]

How did you get the old Edge to work again? Someone I know wants it back.

[@feirceflame9302]

Probably just using old version of windows 10

[@Ali_Nar]

Idk why you made this. I already have Netscape Navigator on Win10 and it works fine (except a few AOL has bought us messages)

[@archgirl]

Probably because he doesn’t make his videos exclusively for you, nor does he check what you already know so as to not make videos about it. Self-entitled ass...

[@manuelpop7324]

Version 4.04 was “stuck” because you were selecting stuff in otvdm’s CMD window, if you pressed enter or clicked on the window, thus getting rid of the white square, it would have worked

[@ТеодораКостоска]

yeah I had the same thought. It's one of these things you never expect to break stuff but they do and they go unnoticed

[@manuelpop7324]

@@ТеодораКостоска this kind of stuff has always bothered me, because maybe i’m clicking on the window to read the logs, not stop the program from executing!

[@avi12]

20:59 Really? That's an error? Which version of ECMAScript introduced objects then?

[@4cps777]

6:35 Didn't they change their engine? 8:25 Btw this program became a standalone program known under the name KompoZer and the developer who made it (who had also worked at netscape) later made another html editor named BlueGriffon which still contains code from the old composer.

[@kiillabytez]

I just tried Netscape Navigator v9 and could hardly connect to any sites because Navigator couldn't connect securely to any sites. It is basically worthless for my use.

[@NielsonLucas]

I was also able to get version 9.0 of the browser working on Windows 7 and 8.1. May also work with Windows 10.

[@glowiak3430]

How to do it: 1. Install lsw (linux on łindołs) (arch the best) 2. Install wine on it 3. Set wine version to 95 4. Simply run it via wine I use Arch btw

[@gavintantleff]

I think the mirrors were broken because you can only access them with an ftp app. Not completely sure but I would check it out.

[@trexiselpou]

About nestcape 1 i think it was or a glitch of otvdm or because you do it on a VM because with real machine i got it working on otvdm.

[@animationszentrale]

Thanks for the video! I just got interested in running it in W10 and this video just fit perfectly :D