Forward Facing Sonar- Understanding Cone Width

Brett and Jon explain what your transducer sees vs what you are seeing on your screen!
Want to get into FFS without breaking the bank?
Lowrance HDS-9 LIVE No Transducer w/C-MAP Pro Chart
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Lowrance HDS-12 LIVE No Transducer w/C-MAP Pro Chart
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Lowrance ActiveTarget™ Live Sonar Transducer
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[@brianberry23]

Basic rule of thumb for people using FFS: If you're lure is the exact same brightness as the object or fish you're throwing at, you're on it. If not, you aren't.

[@lindseywatkins2075]

Good explanation. What you said about turning the transducer to get the brightest return from your target can also be use to check your return on you lure. If you’re getting the brightest return on your target in the center but have to move the transducer to the right to get best return off your lure then you know to adjust your cast to the left. Works well for me when casting jigs for crappies!!!

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Good point!

[@bartgrider6895]

Great explanation.. That's where HB 360 helps dial in the exact cast. Use FFS to find where they are vertically in the water column. Use 360 to locate them radially.

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

They work great side by side!

[@CasualBassGuy]

Jon, you got a knack for explaining/teaching bro. Well done RMP

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

I appreciate that! Hope you're doing well!

[@dustinwright4601]

This video explains why you guys our the best in the business you didn’t have to make this video but you went beyond the call of duty! these videos are amazing and I will be buying my products form you guys! Good job.

[@philshoyer2200]

Excellent presentation! I'm sure I'm not the only one who never really thought about what you guys just explained. So, basically you need to fan cast within the cone to cover all the possibilities.

[@larrybrown7263]

Hey guys y’all killed it with this one. What took me seems like forever to figure out you all explained it in min. Hope you both have great holidays. Oh and 12k views in 2 days isn’t bad. Keep it going.

[@paulstuartwilson485]

Wow. Really well done explanation of ffs and what it is actually showing. The tape stripes on the floor are a fantastic representation of the cone. Great casting skills as well. 👍🇺🇸

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Thank you! Brett was right on the money!

[@joebuda7900]

Guys this is an AMAZING VIDEO !!!!! What a way to explain how FFS works. You guys are the best!

[@user-nl6vg8wn3m]

Hey Brett, this video was so informative. I've never heard the width and depth of the forward facing cone explained so well. Yes, John is correct, that was a fantastic Jig pitch!! I've spoken to you before on the phone and you were super nice, patient and professional. Keep up the good work.

[@markpinther9296]

This was well done guys. It’s hard to explain to people visually but I felt you made a great effort on this.

[@jrsmith80]

Awesome video, clears up a lot of questions that I had regarding the FFS. Thank You

[@arthurpierson2923]

I have just purchase a garmin ffs package and have been watching alot of different video's on this. Yours is the best representation ive seen yet. Very well thought out. thank you for what yall did.

[@ksaggie1359]

Thanks for producing this video. Makes great sense and explains a lot of my frustration with FFS!!!

[@davidstevens9280]

the light just came on.....still a bit dim but getting ALOT brighter than it was two weeks ago when I first starting using Mega Live. Thx for the great video!

[@gingervytis]

Good information and exposes the fallacy of ignorantly relying on a gadget. "Knowledge is the key to success" - Elwood "Buck" Perry.

[@tommypeckinpaugh1399]

As always guy’s awesome technical breakdown. Keep them coming

[@tonypinckney5957]

This really explains why when we think we put our lures on top of them and they don't respond. We weren't close enough! Personally, I will be casting at them a lot more instead of writing them off as uncatchable.

[@Dlezman_fishing]

awesome content! Thanks for taking the time to explain this.

[@Yup2024]

Awesome Teachings! Greatly appreciated!

[@davidharris4030]

I am glad to know this info! That probably explains why a jerk bait is good for FF. You can work the bait fairly quickly and then fire back out again to hopefully be closer to the target. Thanks because I have been going nuts on why I wasnt getting bit more often. I knew the degree of the scope but didn’t know it could be 8-10 ft away from my target. I always thought once I centered target and got that bright return I had it pinpointed.

[@mikegooding1075]

All the guys that have never used one but think it’s cheating need to watch this video. It every bit as much of a skill to be good at it as skipping dock or something else. Great video guys!

[@iowaoutdoorsman5166]

Thank you for that information from someone that is going to be getting forward facing in near future

[@ryanvarner6520]

Very helpful. Thanks for the info! Nice pitch to the foot

[@user-dh9fx1nq2z]

Great video, that is a real eye opener.

[@BretReidFishing]

Brett, that was an awesome video!!!!

[@Patrik.Leidstedt]

Great video guys 👏👏👏

[@roddybieber7031]

Awesome. I have Livescope and am still learning. Great job guys

[@davidhodges1483]

Good information that help me, a new FFS fisherman, to better unterstand what I'm looking at when using FFS. BTW, I purchased all my electronics and FFS from RMP. I'm very satisfied with your products and customer service. A new customer for life.

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Thank you for your business! Glad we could help.

[@Wxfann]

Great video guys, very informative!!

[@macEboy]

WOW, New sub here. This video is King when it comes to basic learning (exactly what I needed). Please more details on distance and how many casts need to be applied due to increased distance and so forth. I subbed due to this one, as I'm learning the basics. Cheers! Mac

[@markesquivel1458]

Great information, thanks guys

[@a.b.robinsonjr.4301]

Well done! Thanks.

[@Mark-dj5qf]

Awesome guys! That helps a lot for sure. Thank you!

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Happy to help!

[@gbogey2661]

Great video guys.... this is going to help a lot of anglers.

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Thank you!

[@abreug2]

Very good explanation!!

[@haroldnicely5463]

Great video, thanks guys

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Our pleasure!

[@lesyoung9294]

Good explanation with the visual aids.

[@larrypelgen4578]

Thanks for the info. That explains a bunch. First time I ever heard of this info.

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

No problem! Thanks for the feedback!

[@brandondrum8185]

Great explanation

[@jasongiles4806]

That was a good video explaining how it actually works and that it's not a guarantee to catch fish on livescope. I would just like more videos on Mega live and show what it looks like with it's latest updates on a apex and compare it to the other brands like you have done in the past. All those videos I thought helped out on guys making a decision on which live product to buy. Plus been told mega live has improved to almost equal the other two brands just not got to actually see it to me the actual comparison. Thanks guys.

[@glenndaugherity6187]

Awesome video and explanation guys !! It really just solidifies for me anyway that my Active Target is a better tool for showing there’s fish out there for me to try and catch rather than trying to actually see the bait being bitten by the fish !! It just seems I waste so much time watching that screen trying to see a fish chase down my lure instead of fishing. If that makes sense 👍👍

[@moeojro]

Very well done! thanks

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Thank you for the kind words!

[@glxbe]

it's wild to me that the sonar companies don't make videos or sales materials to explain this stuff. you'd think they want their customers to successfully use the product

[@LugnutsCarCare]

this!!

[@WarEagleTheBest]

Agree! Never seen a good video from Garmin! Every Garmin pro is hiding this information!

[@williammarkward2088]

Man, if you could do one on perspective mode, that would be the Cherry on top.

[@cowboy4219]

Helped me a lot Ty

[@ronknight779]

Good stuff

[@brettpatton906]

Just order my active target can't wait for it to get here

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Enjoy!

[@rogercarlson2330]

ty makes so much sense

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

No problem!

[@alanbuvelot831]

Some good info. Better to attach livescope transducer to shaft of trolling motor or some sort of bracket attached to side of gunalle.😊

[@dsquaredbassind2570]

Awesome video! I am in awe at what I didn’t know. So forward mode is basically a 2d of the vertical picture in front of my transducer. Then I can assume that scout mode is providing a 2d in the horizontal picture. Utilizing the same theory you explained, my picture in scout mode it can look like I’m right on top of my target but in actuality I could be many feet above or below it and not necessarily next to my target. Very interesting.

[@highschoolfishingcentral7753]

Great video! Could you do another video like this for Perspective mode?

[@jeremyguthmiller2946]

Love this video! Is it possible to explain this from a vertical jigging perspective from the boat? Such as when you and a fishing partner are vertical jigging, what are the best angles and sonar facing directions so you can both see a lure. for example, One guy in front of the boat and one guy in back.

[@jimpotts4977]

Great job guys!!! This helps a lot. When is Brett giving flipping and pitching lessons??? 😉

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Haha we may have to start offering that as a service! LOL

[@aaronmackbf]

Great video, very informative! Not sure if it was just me but the mic volume was a little quiet, had to crank my volume. Just for the future but great content.

[@99leeray]

Good info

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Glad it was helpful!

[@chuckhepler4157]

In effect you are actually viewing Livescope from the side of the cone. From the side you can’t tell the side to side relationship of bait to target

[@bobhawney5639]

appreciate you guys taking time to make this video, very helpful. I do have a question though. With my panoptix on trolling motor in normal ff mode suspended targets usually move up or down in column as I steer tm. Typically I am in 8 - 15 ft of water. Do you experience this or is it a set up problem?

[@chadraper6418]

Have you heard anything good or bad about the latest Lowrance update the 23.3? Thanks for all the great tips and content.

[@aspadafina]

Great explanation! but what about perspective mode? Are you able to make a more accurate cast?

[@RodWynnFishing]

Great video!!! Also I want one of those Red RMP shirts..!

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Thank you very much!

[@kevinsnyder8508]

Wed, Feb 14 at 3:18 PM Hi. Hope all is well. I watched all those videos and learned a lot. But all I saw was a chart on the width for the 20 Degree angle but none for the 135 Degree angle. You said for instance on Mega Live forward mode that the side to side was 20 degrees and the up and down was 135 degrees. So, I assume on landscape mode the 20 degrees is up and down and the 135 degrees is side to side. So, a chart on widths at various distances for the landscape mode would be very helpful also.

[@mcconn746]

Best video I have seen on this. I think the "stump" would look the same if it was on the right or left side of the beam rather than the middle. What am I missing? Thanks.

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

That's exactly right.

[@NiteWolfeFishing]

Great visual, i think a lot of people dont grasp the concept that what they see on the screen is actually a side view of the beam. I read all the time on the forums about well the fish was on the right side of the screen so i tossed my lure to the right side but couldnt see my lure. On the screen there is no left or right its strictly forward and back. Its like your standing on the bottom looked sideways at the beam, you can tell up and down closer or further but no left or right. Now left or right can be determined as you said by how bright the return is when you sweep the transducer, but that takes a trained eye.

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Thank you for the positive feedback! Seems like a lot of people are enjoying this one.

[@otto21matic]

So that’s why you’re seeing guys run a second transducer in perspective mode or having 360 to help to pinpoint where that cover is and how the fish are relating to it?

[@richardmajewski3815]

Have you talked at all about the effects of the trolling motor shaft angle when it is deplooyed in relation to the angle the live transducer is set for best picture? i.e. If you have a large person in the back of the boat and full livewells and tank of gas, how does the shaft angle change and how does that impact what you see on your screen? Thanks

[@Jason_Emry_Fishing]

Thanks for the amazing explanation on FFS. One question that I didn't catch was which position is the FFS in? Perspective mode or normal mode? I was wondering this as I am always learning this FFS for my own boat. Thanks again Fellas!

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

This is in forward mode

[@garydennis5178]

Great example.

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Thank you! We appreciate the feedback!

[@chriscabral4342]

Awesome info .. now do this same information from a kayak point of view..

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

This info is the same no matter what vessel you are on! The only difference is where the transducer is mounted.

[@timg185]

For some reason when I work my bait back to the boat . I can bring my back behind the transducer and trolling motor on the left side of my boat . I can still see my bait. . I’m not sure how since the transducer is shooting forward .

[@ronknight779]

This question may be hard to explain but I will try. To visualize the ffs cone in front of you, does the arrow on top of the trolling motor bisect the angle in half right and left of the arrow or does the left side of cone line up with the trolling motor arrow and the right side of the cone located 20 degrees to the right of the arrow (on a HB)??

[@LeeRiverGuy]

I'm assuming that Scout mode would be a lot better for telling where your target is except for depth.

[@letsdothis223]

Great video, can you do a video with perspective mode. Thanks

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Great idea! We should be able to do that.

[@steveparker7240]

I think I saw a Lowrance representation that gives the widest beam at about 45', then the further of the three beams actually narrows - which is why it's harder to pick up your bait and targets at 90'. And you quickly lose targets at the longer ranges, in other words, the target leaves the scope with smaller changes in position. It's like a widening cone to 45', then a narrowing cone. That's what I recall and it works with what I see on the water. Your representation would work perfectly with vertical 2D sonar. But I don't think it works with the three-beam forward sonar. At the range your showing it works though. 👍

[@thomasdietrich8544]

Hi guys, thanks for the video.Have a few questions-comments. First off, it seems that any transducer should work for this. Face the transducer forward, adjust the depth, which in this case would be distance & you should be all set. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, or my Lowrance. Elite 7 Chirp isn't up to snuff, but I've never been able to see my lure with it. Guess I'm mistaken about this, or all the excitement wouldn't exist. Always thought forward facing sonar would be a great navigational safety device for detecting flotsom, jetsam, or any uncharted impediment to navigation.

[@briggs13a]

what lure can be seen best for practice or a prop?

[@the_quest_outdoors10]

now how about this with depth included? and are cone angles same for down imaging mode

[@scottlykins1388]

Awesome visual for understanding x axis of 18-20 degrees interpolated to a 2d screen , but what about the y axis and 135deg angle, we know we can look under the boat, but further out should we not loose the ability to see the splashdown and shallow part of our image? Further out would loose the shallow water image, would it not

[@WarEagleTheBest]

I join the question - something gotta be missing shallow or deep for 135 degree angle.

[@Stenn333]

So...why is the display on the screen converted from the forward facing point of view the sonar ping is coming from to a side view on the screen, introducing all this "2D" and perspective error ?

[@johna9904]

to get 3d view, add two forward facing sonar pucks to both sides of the trolling motor, 6 inches apart. use a splitter and send it to the one unit. now the overlap will give you 3D. also helps if you wear a blue lense and a green lense in your sunglasses when viewing the sonar screen.

[@knowitallfishing6990]

i asked about a 3d vu after the first gen. i believe garmin said they had a patent on it. maybe we will see it in the coming generations.

[@the_quest_outdoors10]

also would love to se more on landscape mode or is this a forgotten and wasted feature?

[@101karper]

Didn’t see those charts as promised. Otherwise great video. Helps a lot. Thx 🇧🇪

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

go to the 3:15 mark and take a screenshot

[@101karper]

@@RussellMarineProductsLLC thx 🙏

[@DirtySlippahs]

Would have been awesome if you could have installed the lvs34 on a 10-20' ladder. too see if the objects and distant is actually accurate. Can yall cover down view next. Great video!

[@vexperts9650]

These FFS marine devices are sonar based for use in a liquid environment not gas/air. LiDAR or RADAR would be necessary to map and track objects in the mockup example.

[@WarEagleTheBest]

What I need to do in order to put my jig into the brush pile in this case? Blindly cast inside the cone and maybe in 3-5 casts I can hit it? Is it possible to cast into the target from first cast?

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Yes it is, you will need to scan to the left and right with the transducer to find the edges of each side of it to know where to make your cast. It takes practice but with time on the water you will be able to hit it 90%+ of the time on your first cast.

[@guyb5333]

Props on the cast🎣🎯 I Think I understand. Only relative distance of objects can be determined but not side to side location In the horizontal plane. Because it's a single beam Horizontal location within that beam cannot be determined. If these units can't discriminate targets in the horizontal plane, what about the vertical plane? Can these units accurately determine depth? I'm from back in the days of paper charts, And in the 90s, Hb came out with a 3 headed transducer. The resolution was not great but, You could tell whether the fish/target was left, center or right, as they appeared in one of beams that was indicated on the LED display. I actually took this TRANSDUCER and mounted it sideways on my trolling motor. IT worked somewhat, Except I had to angle it down greatly then the bottom became a problem. Otherwise it would just get reflection off the surface. In open water it was good. OLD school side imaging.😊

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Yes this example is when running FFS in "forward" mode. My drawing on the whiteboard helps explain what you will be seeing on the screen. Thanks for watching!

[@guyb5333]

@@RussellMarineProductsLLC Thanks, you all have really helped me before. Especially the video about how to take your 360 and put it into size imaging mode. I Would like to get FSS but, Not sure at my age if I would ever wanna be staring down at a forward facing sonar image but you never know. Due to health reasons i'm going to be selling my twenty one foot bass boat😢😥😢. I hope to get a small boat just To use a couple times a year. Is great videos,Guy

[@beardedliberty2640]

Best bet is running a ffs on forward and another on scout

[@davidwalker6438]

Seems like a simpler explanation would be to lay out either on paper, or with a video of the screen in picture, and explain HOW the screen changes what is actually there, versus what you are seeing. Because what I'm gathering by your representation is, the image you see on your screen is a 90 degree flip of what is actually in the water. Is that wrong or right? I get that you are explaining the difference in what you see, versus what is actually there, but I'd like to see HOW the image changes from reality to screen. I'm still debating on getting a live system, and I will be only using it for cast netting bait. But, if I can't tell which side of the beam the bait is on in 25-40 foot of water in winter, I don't see how it would do me much good.

[@rdonner28]

Question based on the 14’ width, is everything within those dimensions the same intensity OR are things in the center of the beam intensified more? Wondering if there’s a focal point within the beam area? Thanks

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

We did talk about this in the video. Objects in the center of the cone will appear a bit brighter.

[@rdonner28]

@@RussellMarineProductsLLC Thanks! I missed it, I’ll rewatch to see what else I could’ve missed!

[@davidj2k1]

Is it possible to see both views? The 2d as well as the cone? And if not...why?

[@NiteWolfeFishing]

Some people are starting to run 2 transducers and split screen forward and perspective.

[@fishfever5923]

I swear my lvs32 cone angle is a lot smaller than that lol...I have to dead straight on to see my lure lol

[@vincenttuminello6096]

swaying back and forth can show you the limits of where a target is....

[@damienbethea7443]

So basically you should fan cast until your bait and target are at the same brightness?

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

That's right!

[@bronzebackbrownies]

Does a zero degree mount eliminate this? Or help?

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

The zero degree mount is for a pole mount but the 8 degree offset is meant to clear the trolling motor barrel when shaft mounted.

[@bssin-sifu9991]

Magnification at greater distance....? AT2 fish look larger at 100' out until you get them in 60'🤔

[@wendellbond3239]

I understand the angle but where my lure is has me completely confused.

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

Somewhere inside that cone! Your screen will tell you where it's at in the water column.

[@-MUTINY]

Great work guys. Why not switch over to landscape mode or is that a option?

[@NiteWolfeFishing]

landscape mode/perspective mode moves from a side view of the beam to a top down view of the beam. With it you can tell left to right of center but you cant tell up or down (how deep they are). I only use that mode for shallow water where there is a lot of structure. It can quickly let you know which piece of structure is holding fish. Say iam looking at a lot of tree's in the water Like cypress type. There maybe 20 trunks in front of me, with out perspective mode i would feel the need ot cast to every one of them. But in perspective i can easy which trunks are holding fish an dit greatly cuts down on my unproductive time.

[@-MUTINY]

@@NiteWolfeFishing thanks

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

We will do another video on perspective, but this is exactly why you see people running two ducers. One in forward and one in perspective.

[@-MUTINY]

@RussellMarineProductsLLC awesome thank you, guys, for the videos. Can't wait to see how you do more videos on forward mode and perspective mode, landscape mode, and down mode. I'm just running 12" mega side imaging now, and I have the transducer for mega live but have never hooked it up. I was wondering if I should get another 12" to run both at the same time. I fish more out of the back of my boat and sides because of swift water current tides around Ponce Inlet, Daytona beach areas. Most average depth is 15' or less, and some areas are 20' to 30' depths. The mega side imaging has been totally awesome on finding fish and catching them.

[@lfcskater]

Sooo what you’re saying is that I need another transducer and screen for perspective mode 😂

[@RussellMarineProductsLLC]

pretty much! LOL

[@lfcskater]

@@RussellMarineProductsLLC got it 😂😂

[@leeroy3375]

helpful tip.. your into volume level is allot louder than the rest of your sound.. great video though

[@leeroy3375]

intro

[@Adventures521]

If they don’t know this basic thing better fishing old style

[@theoutsidewithin9138]

So basically there is no way to know if you are casting anywhere near the fish. Great