Russia's War, Ukraine's History, and the West's Options

In Russia's invasion of Ukraine, history was presented as justification for war. Is there any resemblance between Russian justifications and historical consensus? What does it mean when ethnic claims trump international law? And should hate propaganda be seen simply as an instrument in one war, or an element of a larger strategy to destabilize the West?
Timothy Snyder is one of the world’s foremost scholars of Central and Eastern Europe, and the author of numerous critically acclaimed works of history, including Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin (2010), and The Reconstruction of Nations: Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, 1569-1999 (2003). During the ongoing crisis in Ukraine, he has been a visible public intellectual, addressing questions of historical memory, narrative, and reconciliation both in his writing and through his public activism.
Presentation by:
Timothy Snyder
Bird White Housum Professor of History, Yale University
Moderated by:
Jeffrey Mankoff
Deputy Director and Fellow, Russia and Eurasia Program, CSIS
csis.org/event/russias-war-uk...

[@str.77]

29:24 Does anybody know what article he is talking about? I found it: Anton Shekhovtsov's blog, 17 March 2014 Pro-Russian extremists observe the illegitimate Crimean "referendum"

[@JasonCunliffe]

Thanks

[@carpediem9543]

It's funny how many people here think Snyder is incorrect. Snyder is a PhD scholar, and knows *MUCH* more about this conflict and Ukraine/Russian history than you simpletons.

[@madgavin7568]

Absolutely, the Putin-paid trolls have spread like a disease to every news website, consistently spouting and spewing their lies and propaganda, calling the Ukrainian government 'Fascists' and 'Neo-Nazis' at EVERY opportunity. Even when they're shown the facts they'll just deny it and call it 'Western Media Lies' or some shit like that. Goes to show how effective the Russian Propaganda Machine is.

[@carpediem9543]

*You're. Who is the idiot now? Simpleton.

[@jaiden9898]

***** Still you. xD

[@ge12mma345ge12]

You mean this man would NEVER take sides? Would never lie?

[@dusq123]

It's funny u said that Carpe Diem..I've seen your comments on Stephen Cohen? Isn't he a PhD Scholar?

[@peterdollins3610]

Illuminating as all his work. Necessary to understand the threats facing us now. As a Brit our naion is in extreme danger from these indirect hostile acts.

[@eugenlitwin]

Timothy Snyder is the best world’s of all scholars of Central and Eastern Europe...

[@DustinTheGreat1123]

ive noticed pro russian audience members at various think tank panel discussions very frequently and rudely interrupt speakers when they hear something they disagree with. maybe they don't know about the q&a session in russia.

[@BohoSalmon]

MrSakninsh Does he need to orally recite his citations? Trolls can't be satisfied.

[@DustinTheGreat1123]

im not familiar with "him," the troll you just cant satisfy. i would go through my viewing history and find an example for you, but well, i have better things to do. you did hear the person interrupting in this video though, did you not? a similar thing happened in a video several months ago with fiona hill on the panel. you are definitely confusing me with someone else that you clearly have a long standing and troubled relationship with.

[@watchingseeing5088]

cant get audio ?

[@TangBengYong]

Why is the sound for this video scrambled?

[@catc8927]

Glad it’s not just me. I think KZbin recently changed up their audio format, and since this is an old video, it might have gotten messed up.

[@Dr.PaulCottrell]

Great video and I recommend the ITunes University that CSIS has published pertaining to Ukraine.

[@CaptainHarlock-kv4zt]

No sound?

[@Nataliy...]

Problemi con il volume. Non si sente!

[@GonzoTehGreat]

Talk starts at 2:55

[@lukaszhuminiecki6363]

This is probably the best overview of the crisis available in the public domain. Great focus on political concepts (Kennan's Long Telegram, Orwell's essay), which I found very instructive. One could perhaps wish for some quantitative research in support of the thrust of the major hypotheses (quantitative studies of propaganda might be interesting).

[@lukaszhuminiecki6363]

ElPocho DelMundo Yep. I am a big fan as well.

[@lukaszhuminiecki6363]

ElPocho DelMundo Where he is most right‚ it is in pointing out that this is really about political concepts. If we don't understand the concepts‚ we have already lost. Personally‚ I fear that most diplomacy and policy-making today is very strong on PR‚ tactics and short-to-medium term goal-setting‚ but sadly not so good at long-term thinking and strategy.

[@drancisdrake]

Fantastic talk

[@reginapierson650]

Thank you, Timothy Snyder, for your very good presentation about Ukraine. Most people have absolutely NO IDEA about what has happened to Ukrainians. It is refreshing to have information on the other side too!

[@momcilopucar8749]

regina pierson - if you want to know the facts instead of Timothy Snyder's lies and anti Russian Propaganda!! Read my comment it's just above yours! Obviously you need it! Have a great day!👍

[@michaels.strettonll963]

BroP&T

[@michaels.strettonll963]

; N

[@aaron4848]

1. U.S. foreign policy on Ukraine is also a failure given that Russia was pushed towards China and people in Ukraine are suffering. 2. What would the U.S. do if its "backyard" Latin America might become a sphere of Russia's influence? The history tells us the U.S. reaction would be exactly the same. Lesson to learn: don't play with other great powers' core interests.

[@Redbaron9495]

2. Already been done....remember Cuba 1962, when the US were prepared to go to WW3 Their hypocrisy stinks!

[@drWolffe]

Ukraine's population is roughly 1/3 russian population. Ukraine can not be any kind of core interest for Russia, simply too big. Please, don't use medieval terminology for modern events.

[@Redbaron9495]

Viktor Lishchuk 8 million out of that 44 million...are ethnic Russians...so that leaves around 36 mill Ukrainians.....about a 1/4 of Russian Federation

[@alekshukhevych2644]

That's not true, there are by far today less then 8 million ethnic Russians. That number is at least cut by half, but the fact is many of the ethnic Russians are today fighting for the Ukrainian army and its battalion's. The fact is Russia invaded my homeland for god knows what time, last time they were there was in the late 80's, still sending people to Gulags still doing the same shit Stalin was. THis may not sound intelligent but fuck Russia and its backward ass ideology!

[@virtuallybliss]

It's all horizontal and open sourced, he said so.

[@BGVassil]

This guy is white washing a key step in the timeline, February 18 2014 Opposition leaders in Kiev meet with Yanukovich terms were agreed and met. Yanukovich agreed to step down and call early elections, the Russians observed it the Europeans observed it. The next day instead of protesters leaving unknown snipers shot at both sides, nobody ever investigated them after the regime change, and the protests became violent. Parliament building was stormed the elected officials were not allowed to leave and a coup began. This mans information is persuasive, as in he is trying to tell you the story the way he wants you to believe. The only thing I can agree on is Crimea, the Russians knew they would have to secure that peninsula a long time ago they had a plan and they just waited for a time to strike.

[@cameronbarge3337]

No sound

[@ChinaTalkMedia]

this guy is next level brilliant

[@111076tom]

If this is the level of the debate in the US it's no wonder u get outplayed all over the board...

[@pho3nix365]

The sound quality is bad. Unwatchable.

[@rainman4684]

comedyfavorite The type size using in Your remark is bad. Unreadable.

[@toosinbeymen6304]

Tim Snyder's speech and Q&A was brilliant, informed and very enlightening, as has always been my experience with others of his. A pity he's not the norm rather than our usual think tank putzes.

[@muramumukuru1879]

The very question is from which enemy nato is supposed to protect? If nato intends to protect Europeans from Russia, that means Europeans made Russia their enemy. That's why nato fix its eyes in est direction. That's why nato enemy is not in France, in England... So one bigger problem is that the military officers never explain what happened on tv. Civilians (ministers of defense and other ministers) became experts in military domain. Those civilians show people in Europ that they are good and not Russia. But honest military officers in west(Europ, usa, England) know that politicians who are civilians in Europ and in usa provoqued Russia, not Putin. They think they are smarter, wiser...than Russians.

[@albundy1104]

Listened through first 30 minutes of this guy's speech and noticed one "little" detail missing completely. He completely did not mention any actions of EU and especially the US during and immediately after the February cup. According to his picture, both of them (EU and US) were just standing on the sidelines and watching big bad Russian Bear ripping Ukraine apart. I also love his assumptions of why Yanukovich did not sign the EU treaty, without saying ONE WORD about what was actually in that treaty(!!!)... Not a word said on the roles of victoria nuland and jeffrey payette (US ambassador) and the entire US embassy played and still playing in this whole Ukraine spectacle...

[@deroconnor4621]

The question is will this high stakes game create a stable world? The warnings are clear, when the perverse think they have won, sudden disaster.

[@aon10003]

Interesting but a very selective memory, even where hes proven wrong. Anyway, it's real geniuses that drive this case that wants to trade a continent for a peninsula.

[@ge12mma345ge12]

And Victoria Nuland never did say "F...ck the EU".

[@carpediem8642]

she has one big pussy!!

[@ge12mma345ge12]

Yes, she did in a phone conversation.

[@hazelwray4184]

Snyder always comes across as if he's barely surpressing ardent emotions.

[@sebaz1982]

'what Russia you want??? Russia isn't a Happy Meal, Amigo

[@vinkocolby]

01:26:00

[@nickj751]

Just love the use of the post modernist arguments to blindside history, very clever but somewhat ingenuous. I watched this because I was interested in how Americas elite see the world and it is truly disturbing. Without disputing a lot of the accusations he made toward Putin (which may be true) he never once questioned the American geopolitical influences, hardly mentioned them. I was left thinking about whether the Prof was either dishonest and just a plain one eyed myopic. He lost my respect when he used the argument that if people in Iowa speak English that did not mean any English claim to Iowa (or where ever it was), therefore that because people talk Russian in the Ukraine means that their heritage there means nothing historically as well. When the argument got to the definitions of and danger of fascism the pot started calling the kettle black. American corporatism to me seems almost indistinguishable to the fascist state, the velvet glove approach means little if you are black. The real give away was the complaint that RT has done what CNN and Foxtel does but better.....

[@michaelnguyen6501]

Feel good about yourself?

[@Pain67843]

answer me my American friends If Usa may complitely destroy one country ( Iraq ) why Russia may not( Ukraine ) ?

[@vinllga]

The true name of so called "Ukraine" is Rus' (in greek-latin literation - Russia) and that is a most Russian part in Russia, which was called as Ρωσία ( "ROSIA") even in 11-12 century international documents and in byzantine chronics. There is not such country and nation as ukranians. Ukraine is illegal name of ancient Russia - Rus'. That is a new term (Ukraine) that begin to used officialy as a name of this historical province only by bolshevicks - under tyrants Lenin and Stalin. Now, after collapse of USSR, that province which is historically is more Russia, than any other part of Russia - was forced by it ruling prowestern bureacracy to myphological propaganda that Ukraine is not Russia. But in reality the Ukraine is Russia, the most ancient part of Russia, remember this forever, western people, you always cheating by media. Ukraine became the independent state only thanks to the soviet nationality administrative territorial system, that declared most important national regions as formal union republics and that status also had Ukraine, however ukranians isnt separate nation but only south-west type of Russian nation.

[@interessierter697]

What you say is neither true (I assume wilfully) nor of any relevance. The Ukrainians see it firmly different and will surely despite Putin's bullying, the annexation of Crimea and the frozen conflict in Ukraine's east make its way into the west. If anything has been assured by Putin's war than it is to drive Ukraine away from Russia for a very long time. Regarding you feeble argument: If the theory should be proved right that Rus derives from the word for rower or ore deriving from Vikings trading with and settling in this area does this mean that Russia historically should belong to Denmark, Sweden and Norway?

[@vinllga]

+interessierter you have a porridge in your head сooked by western propaganda. Russians and so called "ukranians" (south-west Russians) has one genetic haplogroup. So ukranians are different from Russians only by their new name, that invented not long ago by enemies of Russia according the principle "to Divide and rule"/ And about Sweden and Denmark is also stupid example because "vikings" that came to Rus in - 9th century were a few men - several administrators- konungs/ That havent any relation to ethnic picture of genuine millions of Russians that were one nation and one state for thousand years before the criminal illegal dividing Russia on different parts in 1991

[@olesmysiura3788]

Bullshit. Ruthenians started to call themself Ukranians in 18th century (starting from east to west) because Moscowians started to call themself "Russians". So as you see "Rassian nation" are much less real than Ukrainian nation. "Russian nation" is barely exist.

[@vladnikolaev1558]

The so called Viking theory is disputed and not taken as an academic fact. This is the so called Norman theory which doesn't have any prove.

[@tupacshakur97]

Its all the way around, russia started from ukraine (Kievan Rus). Russian didnt exist, it was called Moskovy. The whole name russia started from kiev

[@250txc]

What kind of russia do we want? STUPID question!

[@stevej5185]

Great lecture, but there were some horrible questions afterward! Sheesh!

[@vitalidius]

Russia got Crimea but lost Ukraine and Ukrainians. Forever. All on West must always remember this.

[@mch8957]

Is "Center for Strategic & International Studies" the same as "Council on Foreign Relations"? It appears so similar. That guys suggestion for Russian strategy is "to roll over and play dead" or to surrender and let his masters to suck it dry of resources and any future. I would not even call this "a good try", it is so obvious! Putin did not start that crisis, and he probably did not expect US to start such an irresponsible and adventurist aggression, so he had to react, and he behaved not in the way these monsters expected! Now they say it was irrational: he should have done what they expected him to do when they planned all that crap! But now they say that was not US instigated coup, that it was Putin assaulting Europe: go figure! The world is sliding towards WWIII and these puppets keep on spreading their crap about how democratic EU or US is and how Evil Russia trying to ruin the world. Yeah, we have heard it all before, Dr. Goebbels could do any of that 75 years ago no problem!

[@momentum6297]

Synder just outright lies about so many subjects in this presentation to numerous to labor over. Lets stick to one - Fascists NOT in charge of the Ukraine Administration post Maidan - LIE !!!. The Fascist Bandera related Right Sector & Svoboda Parties controlled ALL security apparatus post US Coup - in addition to the building where the shots were fired killing people on both sides - check these names out, background and their positions at various times in the last year: Right Sector holding top posts includes: •Secretary of National Security - Andriy Parubiy, founder of the Svoboda party/commandant of Maidan defense squads. •Deputy Secretary of National Security - Dmytro Yarosh, leader of the Right Sector bloc. •Deputy Prime Minister - Oleksandr Sych, member of Svoboda. •Prosecutor General - Oleh Makhnitsky, member of Svoboda

[@pmsingel1508]

The absence of mention of Soros struck me. This lacks also the context of the Syrian war. Hillary wanted Sevstapol as it was the Mediterranean base of the Russian navy. Russia's fleet was preventing the NATO fleet a free hand in the Eastern Mediterranean. He speaks of Crimean people as being 'Russian speaking'. Perhaps this is because they are Russian?

[@autemniaequinoctius2030]

Such a propaganda. speaking russian does not mean russian ethnicity, much less does it mean russian citizenship

[@hazelwray4184]

@@autemniaequinoctius2030 Years of Ukrainian elections and polls show a country split between East and West. Russian speaking Eastern Ukrainians were largely negative about EU/NATO membership.

[@autemniaequinoctius2030]

@@hazelwray4184 Electoral preferences in the East are divided by the age of the voter: people who lived in the USSR prefer to live without NATO and dream of returning to their Soviet youth

[@ognjenbegicevic6298]

Com on 2 hours later

[@ifigeniaa]

Since 1945, how many wars didnt include USA?

[@IndeyUA]

ifigeniaa, Ukraine hasn't any fault in wars. Why does Russia want to punish it instead the USA?

[@ifigeniaa]

IndeyUA it is USA who made a coup d etat in Kiev.

[@riccky312]

Chechnia, Afganistan in the 80's, Prague, Hungary, Eastern German...

[@ifigeniaa]

Ricardo Machado​​​ so, it didn't gave USA the right to made a coup d'etat in Kiev or did it? And talking the past Korean War, Chilean coup, Vietnam war, Iraq war, Syrian war, Granada invasion, Guatemala war, Nicaragua war, etc. all are US making with tens of millions innocents deaths. Even now how many wars US are in and still want to start news ones?

[@riccky312]

No, I think it was the Ukranian people themselves that were tired of the corruption of their elites and didn't want to see their country being turned into a puppet of Kremlin mega-kleptocrats.

[@Zockopa]

What kind of pills is the professor on to phantasies such narrative as fact ?

[@thomasmann2442]

This person simply repeats the Establishment's version of events. Do NOT waste Your time.

[@jsocdelta82]

*oh yeah? who's establishment...the admin run a decade plus long of dudes who, ohhh idk...idolized Stalin during his poser spy Dresden days? I mean, nah..yer right...it's probably so Western slanted right? I mean both Putin and Stalin, just those two, have done numerous (Stalin alone had Hitler beat, so in terms of psychotic genocide) mass murder ops vs. actual wars (legal or "illegal" depending if your one of the divisive right/left type Western individual).* I'm ain't political or radical, I don't "love conflict" or want more war, but if there's one we will and SHOULD eventually face? It's should be over little Vlad's sorta Davidian level crazy....I'd vote for ten Trumps (again, I'm not raised to be anything other than a mellow minded independent) and yet crazy tweets Trump sounds amazing over Putin. The dude's screwed over NATO and us the entire time he's ever been in office....people frame it like his info/asymmetrics crapping in on our data plate started w/anger about Hilary, Ukraine, blah blah...nope. He's gonna be like his idol if it kills the guy. OR US and our pals...lol

[@jaric82]

This is excellent analysis of Russian policy toward Europe and ideology behind it. I have only one problem with it : Avoiding and denying real problems inside EU. Russian propaganda is so successful with some parts of European public because it touches at real problems and those problems have been created not by Russia but by euro-socialist with their psychopathic war against human nature and natural order of things by which I mean: National identities of European people and it's natural expression - idea of European nation state and personal freedom to engage in economic activities expressed by free market capitalism. First they try to destroy with policy of bringing massive numbers of Muslims and other third world populations second with war on free market capitalism. Euro-socialists ruined economy of continent with their policy of massive taxes and regulations.

[@MrLukeWheeler1]

Hujuhouhjhjjhh

[@123axel123]

Very long-winded. What I find surprising is that he is not a neutral historian, but rather an American historian studying Russia from an American perspective. And a professor that does up-speak is pathetic.

[@mch8957]

Well, still probably the best lying SOB their money could buy! Smart people do not have to go sell themselves for that kind of money, they rather do something they could be really proud of later!

[@stellaadler1977]

The US wanted to isolate Russia and they isolate themselves. WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND!

[@inick54]

Sorry, this guys assessment of the situation in the Ukraine is self serving, unprofessional and superficial but more particularly, it is halfwitted. He assumes non of his audience has any knowledge of the subject matter. How can Snyder go on with this myopic one sides analysis and expect to walk away with any credibility as to his objectivity.

[@herpderp1750]

This guy's recommendations actually just started a war...so...you know...this didn't age well.

[@rsp7029]

Funny, I thought that the 100 or so battalion tactical groups that were recruited, trained, deployed, massed, and given orders to roll over the border using Russian equipment, staffed by Russian officers and men, to kill/capture the Ukrainian administration in the hopes of decapitating the Ukrainian state and getting the Ukrainian army to essentially give up were sent by Vladimir Putin. I didn't know they take orders from a professor from Yale. Someone should change the Russian constitution and give control back to Putin cuz the war that is this guy's fault is going to not be in Russia's interests.

[@herpderp1750]

@@rsp7029 Well if you understood my comment that this guy's recommendation that Ukraine become a member of Nato being a good thing that wouldn't set off Putin to cause all the things you just listed to happen.

[@ronkirk5099]

Like many I suspect, I had to revisit this video in light of the recent events in Ukraine. Dumpf shouldn't have spent so much time kissing up and coddling Putin.

[@mustlovedragons8047]

Putin was scared of Trump. Trump wouldn't allow Nordstream 2, Biden did. It's funding his invasion. That's why he invaded under Biden. Vary your news diet. I don't mean bettewn multiple identical script reading Democrat party press outlets. Make a Trump supporting friend, you'll become more tolerant of different views.

[@YuraK25]

Prophetic

[@irislake1]

I wonder if he really believes what he is saying. Is it incredible self-delusion.

[@Shaggleforder]

Oh my God!!!! You guys are the ones that educate americans in areas like strategic international studies???!! and for some reason you do not understand why Russia dosen't accept USA??? why is that so hard??? why do you have to do such a complicated analysis??? If you want to understand Russia, just ask yourself "if we were them, how would we proceed?" and all of a sudden you would understand everything!!! If you cannot understand the relation between Russia and Ukraine, just think about America and Texas, it is precisely the same situation! Imagine yourself that at the end of 1991, USSR would still be one entity, and USA would have disbanded, and Texas would have been a part of Mexico(Mexic), and now, in 2014/2015, Texas, which has a majority of english speakers, would be split between rejoining USA or becoming part of a hypotethical "American Latin Union - ALU". Given the fact that Texas features a big community of english speakers, natural resources and a common history... what would USA do? Obviously, USA would take whatever parts of Texas it can grab, and what is left would eventualy, due to popular demand, become a part of the hypothetical ALU... All of a sudden, everything that Russia is doing is not that mysterious... If you would like to know, the very first coagulation of a russian state has been in KIEV! what is know as the Kievan Rus! or Kievan Russia! With time, the group that was the most influent in the state has changed a few times, but eventually the muskovites (moskovites), which in turn has caused the capital of the state/country to move from Kiev to Moskow... The very fact that ukrainians and russians are not speking the same language is bullshit! Russia is a country in which, in opposition to USA where you can find individuals from diferent cultures, but they immediately addopt the local cultures while neglecting their native culture, in Russia, you have different cultures, with whole communities, from kids to elders... For an individual in USA is easier to neglect the native culture, mostly because of the big differences... it's easier to accept a big change than a small tweak... But for an individual in Russia is harder to accept a change as easily as one would accept it in USA... Different ethnic groups in Russia are locked in ancient struggles, but please do not read these struggles as wars and conflicts... it is more like competition... Just like 2 small towns might be in competition with one-another on various subjects without any escalation of conflict that would in turn translate into open conlifct/war... Russian politicians are better at rethoric and "cold conflicts" because they see it on a daily basis and they have a vast experience with it... Also, USA fails to accept the fact that russians might have some pride (at least some) left, and just like americans are not shy to state with every occassion that their country is the best, the greatest, the most awesome, the freest, and so on and so forth... the same feeling might be experienced by the russians as well... The sanctions, are affecting russians in the first phase, but would eventualy make them stronger... but on the other side, they are weakening the EU, and would continue to weaken it as long as european businesses lose russian partners and contracts...

[@Shaggleforder]

MrSvinkoyasch I kindly thank you sir!

[@vinllga]

+Pavelica S very true explanation. There no in fact any Ukraine. This is territory of ancient Russia (Rus',MaloRossia - or 'central Russia') that was occupied by medieval Poland during 16 century and renamed to so called "Ukraine". Than this russophobic liar term 'ukraine' was restored every time when enemies want to dividing Russia into different parts - such was during German occupation in WWI and WWII. And such dividing of Russia was happened in 1991 - it was criminal and illegal, violating the laws of USSR and people's wiil referendum of 1990 when all soviet people said 'No' for dividing the country. This "lecture" is Goebbels propaganda that need to be punished as nazi propaganda and crime against humanity.

[@flyingvguy6833]

Like Mcluhan said(and he said it about the USSR), tribal consciousness reawakened by the electromagnetic technology surrounding and enveloping the globe has made all belief in absolute truth in human affairs untenable.

[@CyberspacedLoner]

It must be hard for the Ukrainians and Poles, lying close to imperial states like Russia and Germany

[@irislake1]

HOW SMOOTHLY HE LIES. Must be the Phd,

[@C141421356]

Them intellectuals are the freakin worst! The MOST dangerous...kill em first, eh? Long history of that working out temporarily, right?

[@akompsupport]

This guy claims to be an E. Europe expert and says Ukraine is strategically irrelevant? This guy is state department THUG.

[@deadsouls72]

One and a half hours of vomit.

[@derekmcnulty2559]

9 years later and his post modernist explanation describes the west. Especially the US and Canada.

[@stellaadler1977]

T. Snyder your 1000 hours mean nothing, just yours propaganda.

[@vinllga]

There no in fact any Ukraine. This is territory of ancient Russia (Rus',MaloRossia - or 'central Russia') that was occupied by medieval Poland during 16 century and renamed to so called "Ukraine". Than this russophobic liar term 'ukraine' was restored every time when enemies want to dividing Russia into different parts - such was during German occupation in WWI and WWII. And such dividing of Russia was happened in 1991 - it was criminal and illegal, violating the laws of USSR and people's wiil referendum of 1990 when all soviet people said 'No' for dividing the country. This "lecture" is Goebbels propaganda that need to be punished as nazi propaganda and crime against humanity.

[@TheLoyalOfficer]

The USSR was BROKE, bro. That's why 1991 happened. So are you laying out the Kremlin's justification for a military invasion of the whole country?

[@vinllga]

TheLoyalOfficer USSR was broken illegally in result of the coup, against will of the people of USSR, majority 77% were for united country. So all the so called "independent" states on the territory of USSR are illegal occupational regimes, that seized power against international and inner USSR laws and against the will of people. So all of them need to terminate and restore the true laws and borders of USSR

[@TheLoyalOfficer]

vinllga You are smoking crack. What bullshit Kremlin "poll" said that 77% of the people wanted to keep the USSR? Where did you get that from, other than your ass?

[@TheLoyalOfficer]

vinllga Yeah, I'm sure with plenty of Soviet-style ballot stuffing. After all, Stalin got 99% of the votes, too. Let me quote him: "The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do" LOL

[@TheLoyalOfficer]

vinllga And again, how do you go about preserving a state that is flat BROKE, even IF the referendum was true?

[@canucks255]

Lemme guess-Jewish guy in a suit tells us in a very non-threatening way that we should be in perpetual war (a war that he nor his sons will ever fight)