RV Industry Update: Huge Information on RV LOANS PLUS MORE

[@mesnkc]

I’m glad someone finally spelled it out for GD and others. My hats off to you sir.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Thank you for the support

[@Dave-zl2ky]

Not interested until manufacturers stop making total crap that needs warranty work three weeks after delivery. Good luck folks. I expect dealers and manufacturers to go out of business. In one or two cases very large ones.

[@Flintstone238]

That’s okay sir. An RV is not for everyone. Thank god for Holiday Inn.

[@kckettridge]

Can't wait to see many of the stealerships that ripped off customers for years to go under. They brought all of this on themselves.

[@j.l.salayao8055]

Or a tent from Walmart will work for some folks..."Different stroke, for different folks."😃@@Flintstone238

[@alvindorris4373]

Tk u so mush. .needs more people that helping people out. ❤

[@rondadelleva4805]

We owned a 2011 flagstaff we had no problems at all with this rig.We had thing that got older and needed fixing but it never had anything to do with poor production .What happened to the industry that they stopped having pride in their products?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

That is not the problem. Covid did screw things up a bit, but also every year model and maker since inception have had problems. Nothing has every been perfect. There are bad apples that fall from the tree, even in the 1990's

[@StevenCassels]

Bought a Winnebago Spyder thinking it would be really well built. It’s junk. Dealer said they could only warranty 10 items in the first year and had 15 items that needed fixed. Stereo blew all 4 speakers due to some issue they couldn’t find. Sent a new stereo and still doesn’t work. 2 fresh water tanks have leaked. Wall had to be trimmed. Wall paper coming off. Oven won’t stay in place. Heater vent screw holes wallowed out. Loading ramp warped (never overloaded it). Under bed storage walls blew out so I had to reinforce that. Absolute trash.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Most Winnebago Towables are trash unfortunately. Motorhomes are amazing

[@T18skyguy]

Maybe it's like Lippert, the steel is not a strong enough gauge and it's flexing. I'm sure there is a small minority of owners that take them off road. The frames are not made for off road use. I read that from a RV frame engineer.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

You are correct about the frames not being built for Overland type of off roading. However it is not the strength of the steel, its the weight on top of the frame. Also at the same time when you have walls separating from the floor which is another "Frame Flex" Issue is also the construction process. It should not be as common as it is with Grand Design, this is them cutting corners more then Lipperts Chassis

[@T18skyguy]

Some of the roads are in such poor condition that large potholes essentially can duplicate overland conditions. Then there are bad approach angles and very tight turns that stress the frame over its limits. There's a video on here that shows a Lippert tube frame folded straight up on a light weight trailer right at where the tubing meets the house in front on both sides. I think maybe heavier gauge tubing would cure that but I'm no engineer either. Years back I had an 83 Alpha Gold trailer that had twin 10 inch I beams under it. The good old days.@@HBRVLifestyle

[@robertl9065]

I have a custom 5th wheel toyhauler with a Lippert frame. Hauls a 4,500 lb Jeep with an 8,900 ccc. Mine gets towed on the crappiest roads and holds up fine. But the frame on my toyhauler makes a momentum look like it’s made with tinker toys. Not one issue. It’s all in how the manufacturer specs the frame from Lippert.

[@leveragecomics5067]

I am trying to buy and RV but all data says don’t do it! Also I’d love to see your response to lawyer Steve Lehto’s recent KZbin video “Here is why you must be insane to buy an RV” as it basically says verbiage is in contact that says if you have issues dealer is not liable and you have to go to an Indiana court if you get a lemon. I am ready to buy, but these companies have to be accountable of a consumer buys a lemon!!

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Wow! I didn’t know you were allowed to give legal advice that is incorrect on KZbin. First off every single state has its own lemon laws. The only way Mr. Steve is correct is if you drive all the way to Indiana to buy a RV. But let’s say you live in California and you buy the RV and it’s new in Oregon state. You would have to go back to Oregon to lemon law, the trailer or RV. This is why every single manufacturer pushes for the customer to buy locally. Secondly, I always say that folks like that are just trying to make a buck. For example Sean Hannity at Fox News is constantly turning anything in the news into Armageddon. Same with Andersen Cooper at CNN. Everything is always sky is falling. Why? Sex cells as they would say!

[@telishama-matazaryam386]

Hi HB me and my husband are looking at the 2024 FOREST RIVER AURORA WE GOT A QUOTE OF 37000 - 38000 FROM BLUE COMPASS WITH A DOWN PAYMENT OF 10- 20 % is that a good deal

[@HBRVLifestyle]

What model Aurora cause Aurora is the same thing as a Catalina

[@jamielynn2864]

Thanks for this! Lots of good info, once again. We've been looking at the new grand design reflections and I had heard about frame flex issues on the solitudes but not reflections. We will be steering clear of them now. Also, encouraging news on the interest rate front!

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Thank you for the support

[@modsquad8u]

They don't want to help with the loses, but they didn't reap the huge profits from upcharges dealers made during the pandemic sales surge. There is blame on both sides of the isle that need to work things out.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

That is partially true. There is context that I go over in my Podcast. If you want to check out the podcast its on KZbin and other platforms. HBRV Lifestyle Podcast

[@TexasSteele67]

HB, we started lookin' at Class A's in 20' prior to the pandemic mess- We attended the Florida Super show last month and noticed the price of the Motorcoach we've been wanting dropped 25k from last year so we pulled the trigger on a factory mid-summer order in hope's the rates will make a slide by then- thanks fer the updates

[@HBRVLifestyle]

You are welcome. I do not believe they will drop on the federal level till end of 2025 the way inflation has gone. So make sure you refinance in about 18 months

[@howardc8438]

AWESOME video. Thank you for the courage to speak honestly about what is currently going on in the industry and the shout out to Liz Amazing. She is giving a strong voice to those who would normally be dismissed.

[@willowmorst8861]

Excellent communicator. Examples are very helpful. Down to earth and relatable. Thank you.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

You are welcome

[@jocelynb8935]

Aloha HB, awesome info….I wish I could be a fly on the wall to watch the drama between manufacturers and dealership. To these over greedy, unscrupulous dealers and quality lacking manufacturers I say this: “A PLAGUE ON BOTH YOUR HOUSES” and Karmas a B****. Things are finally starting to take shape to help consumers. Here’s some of my take away from your video: - It makes sense that these only RV loans through dealerships are dropping interest rates, if the market is tanking either they try to make a lower profit by enticing customers to use their loan or they make 0 on a lost opportunity -as u stated in previous videos it was extremely unlikely there was going to be a rate decrease in March….some are hoping for May but I think realistically 3-4th Qtr we may get 1 best case 2 rate drops. Maybe sooner if inflation significantly drops which I doubt - finally I wanna say Mahalo because u give information no other influencer on KZbin does and u give it straight no matter who u probably piss off. You are looking to be transparent and FAIR with your dealings which is why you are doing well and will continue to do so. Also appreciate your recommendations to those with bad credit. It’s easy to take advantage of someone to make a profit but by giving that guidance can help someone who really can’t afford this luxury item from digging themselves deeper into debt. Keep it up!

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Thank you for the support

[@JoseMartinez-ot7cb]

As always thank you for the information and for putting Grand Design on the spotlight. As someone who is still researching for my first RV I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve seen frame flex posts get deleted in Facebook pages and they try to ridicule anyone who brings it up. I get it I’m sure the number of issues is smaller than the larger group that don’t have it yet, but it raises an eyebrow when it is constantly being brought up. Even the NHTSA has dozens of reports

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Thank you for the support

[@ezrasoto293]

Us bank just gave me a 6.99 yesterday.

[@dianadery5037]

I got a 5.6% end of 2021 with US Bank. I'm doing velocity banking to chunk down the loan. It will be paid off according to our #s in 4 years rather than 2036. We're keeping the RV so found a solution for us not US bank 🙌👊🏻

[@jamesorr2832]

Good for you but that wouldn't work for me because I'll be 103 in 2036 Lol

[@Mtdubba]

Care to share loan amount and % you put down to get 6.99? Thanks!

[@n2know]

What about the Coachmen beyond B van. I’m looking at 3 so far. The problem is they are so expensive. And I’m trying to compare the options between the three. I’m overwhelmed. What are your thoughts?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

I will answer your email this evening

[@leveragecomics5067]

This guys very helpful!!

[@scottwood9832]

Thank you for your point of view. You mentioned 3 items affecting interest rates: total amount financed, how much money down and one’s credit score. I would think the length of the note would affect the interest rate. In point, my wife and I are 1-2 years away from purchasing a Tiffin Allegro Bus 45FP. Our financial advisor recommends we put ~$200K down and finance ~$300+K over 10 years. With each of our credit scores between 825 and 850, we expect to get a very good interest rate.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

The only thing you’re financial advisor has wrong is a 10 year loan. You will get the same interest rate as you would on a 20 year loan.

[@meddgirl9313]

Thank you for your honesty. This video was a tremendous help for our family. Thank you

[@bobbobobob5100]

more proof the industry needs to be governed just like the auto industry

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Even the auto industry is screwing up these days

[@damnthetorpedos1691]

Just wait till the baby boomers all start selling off their rigs when they get to old to use it. This year the second 1/2 go into retirement. Give it a few years and the RV industry is toast.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Thanks for your opinion

[@lyfandeth]

Instead of paying cash, wouldn't it make more sense to take whatever loan you could, get the discount from the dealer, and then pay off the loan after one or two months? Giving you much better credit, because you paid off a loan, and about the same money out of pocket? (Assuming there is no prepayment penalty.)

[@HBRVLifestyle]

In that scenario, the dealership would not get the money for the loan. Secondly, banks will not look at it as a loan. You need to hold the loan for only 8-10 months for the dealer to get the money, and for Loans and credit for loans....banks want to see 24 months

[@CruizinWithTheCarsons]

Hey, are you talking to me? Yep. We've been loyal Grand Design owners since 2018, we're on our 3rd one. We bought our 'dream' camper on Feb. 21st of 2022. A brand new 2022 Solitude 380FL. I currently have an open claim for frame flex/frame failure. It's in the early stages, the evidence is definitely present. I have 7/8"-1" of movement when measuring the way LCI says to measure. Tolerance is 1/4"-1/2". Funny story is, GD told me to call my dealer which is RV Country in Laughlin. I called the dealership. Guess what they told me? They said and I quote, 'frame flex/frame failure, what's that? Never heard of it.' They didn't even know 'HOW' to measure for it. Can you believe it? I surely do not. I emailed my claim person at GD and asked them what am I supposed to do now? Still waiting for a response. Dude, I LOVE you calling them out in public, you sound just like me. I have no problem calling people out when they don't take accountability. We're supposed to leave Arizona in 3 weeks to head back home to Minnesota. Don't know what's going to happen. I may just drop it off at Grand Designs doorstep and demand they fix it.

[@dianadery5037]

I have a GD 2014 Momentum, looks like I may have escaped the frame flex issue. Winnebago bought GD in 2016 . We bought it after seeing the newer ones because they just didn't seem as strong & sturdy.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Thank you for sharing. Winnebago makes amazing motorhome, but the towable side is BAD

[@kristinaramos5387]

I've been looking at 5th wheel toy haulers with open cargo area in the 19-22ft range. In your opinion what company is the best to go with?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Genesis Supreme

[@roadhog6603]

I had a new 2019 Grand Design Reflection in 2018. It was a disaster. The rig was poorly designed, shoddily assembled, with exceptionally poor customer service. You will regret it. I sold it three years later at a loss.

[@Trufit99]

The momentum was the unit I was going to buy, I'm glad I wasn't ready. I'm apart of the fb momentum groups and admins are deleting comments of owners posting about frame flex and some are posting just to seek advice and answers on fb groups and being deleted 😢

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Well, good luck to them trying to delete me lol

[@Trufit99]

@@HBRVLifestyle it’s sad, I would of never have knew if someone didn’t post why they were being silenced, and other commented below with the same issues of being deleted.

[@mneube58]

What about the frame problems?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

I talk about that in other videos

[@rvfishing8817]

The Fed's interest rates are not a direct correlation to what the interest rates that a loaning organization will give you. That rate is based on the financial conditions. So what the Fed does with raising and lowering rates is to affect the tightness of financial conditions which will in turn effect so rates. Even though the Fed is not lowering rates, it has stopped jawboning that rates are going higher. So investors who were worried about the capital risk of holding debt a rate that can be exceeded in a few months so they are going to want a premium to protect from capital losses. Without that risk the rates will go down especially for high credit score loans.

[@jimh9332]

My friend bought #101 built Solitude back in 2012 or 13 and it was a good rig they cheaped out on a few things compared to Montana etc.. but they were built pretty good and I remember him saying when Winnebago bought them out it would be all downhill and he was right

[@soga77]

Had to subscribe after watching since I am thinking of joining the rv lifestyle as a newly empty nester

[@hotshottocoolu2794]

Who do you think you caught him with this b******* information that you provided those Banks Lord knows interest rates because people are not shopping them highest interest rate loans and you know it and they know it and you still ain't going to make nobody go out there and buy them regular ass RVs that manufacturer I was trying to sell to people

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Sorry if my information angers you have a nice 2024

[@lauramessenger6520]

I just ran across you channel yesterday and you had me at hello, the honey badger is my spirit animal. My husband and I planned to travel the country in a large rv within a few years, unfortunately he passed away in early 2019 at the age of 56. It’s taken me when over 5 years to even think about pursuing this dream again but I really want to however, I don’t want it to do it in a larger rv anymore. I want to buy a class b camper van, having said that they are a rip off and my max budget is 150k. I would really appreciate any advice from my spirit animal.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

I am not the biggest fan of Van's lol. Email me the following: [e-mail]------Are you financing some of the purchase or paying cash? This will make a big difference in my advise

[@T18skyguy]

These thirsty banks are trying to get a jump on the other banks. Will attract all the business. I doubt that 2024 will be a bigger market. The trend is down I think.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Time will tell

[@tesladasherfsdbetatester9205]

Thanks!

[@HBRVLifestyle]

No problem! Thank you

[@davidlaramie8713]

We are looking at a destination trailer it's advertised has a 2024 and sticker says 2023 should we get one with the 2024 sticker?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

The date of manufacture is not too important. So if something was built, let’s say September 2023 it will be a 2024 year model.. so there’s nothing wrong with buying that particular unit. There are jokes that occur in the industry that look up the date it was built and it was built on a Monday or a Friday stay away from it. 15 years of doing this, I still consider that a joke

[@lyfandeth]

If it takes 30 days to get a mirror, the only justification is that it was shipped by slow boat from China. Literally.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Partially. There are other reasons as well

[@kckettridge]

Not just YT influencer's....all manufacturers should take care of all customers with issues.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Agreed

[@leveragecomics5067]

I wanted to buy new but I’m scared of the QC issues but is it safer to buy 2018 back?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

It doesn’t matter. No RV is perfect.. doesn’t matter if it’s built in 1985 or 2023. They are earthquakes on wheels. And my favorite thing is RV stands for tool kit and sense of humor.

[@leveragecomics5067]

Looking for a lightweight bunk with good quality control, any recommendations?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

This really depends on several factors. The first being is how much are you willing to spend? Let’s say that you wanna stay under 30 feet in total length and you’re willing to spend let’s call at $45,000. Or if you wanna break it down and payment wise 400 to 450 a month. My recommendation would be Flagstaff/Rockwood Microlite.. You can’t go wrong at that budget with a keystone cougar either. You also can’t go wrong at that money with a used lance product.. you can email me what your budget is and I’ll send you a list of recommendations. [e-mail]

[@MYAFCCA]

I just bought a Grand Design Transcend Xplor BH 2023 is that good?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

The travel trailers from Grand design are fine! The 5th wheels are the ones that have been a disaster. Reflection, Solitude, and Momentum

[@Santerianumero1]

Looking at a 2024 Forest River product. Pretty nicely equipped IMO. Cost is $35k. I have the money to buy outright but might finance part of it to get negotiation power. Hiring an NRVIA inspector (hopefully the dealer is cool with this) before pulling the trigger. I am very afraid to buy a lemon and plan to keep it for a long time. Anything else you might suggest I do before lighting my money on 🔥?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Lmao. Give the inspector specific things you want them to look at. Frame, electrical stuff like that. For example, I would have an inspector check all the appliances, the roof, the electrical, the plumbing, and the frame, and Skip the cosmetics. The cosmetics you’ll see on your own and can address those when you do your walk-through. It will save you money and a headache when you do this. Dealerships don’t care if you bring an inspector out if they do they’re idiots. You have good credit for like seven to $10,000 down and finance the rest. Enjoy the small payment for a couple years and pay off. Last thing I would say is before you pull the trigger look for a 2023 year model of the same Forrest River product. You may be able to get a better deal on it.

[@Santerianumero1]

You are phenomenal man! I'm definitely subscribing. The problem with the specific model I'm looking at, very weird, is that it is a new 2024 floor plan. Didn't exist in 23. Dealer offered me a couple others for 23 under $29k (I can tell they are trying to clean up 23 inventory). They will not budge a nickel on the 24. It is consistent with what you are preaching!

[@Santerianumero1]

Also, I haven't bought yet. You happen to be near Utah? I'd love to buy from you. You seem knowledgeable, honest, and transparent.

[@rickgriffith1]

First time seeing your channel. Great information! Thank you. Where is your store and do you sell Class-A RVs like Canyon Star 3947?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

The store I am at is in Southern Nevada. I sell Mostly Georgetown Gas Class A and FR3

[@kckettridge]

Check out Alliance and Brinkley over GD.

[@kckettridge]

Pretty rich telling customers to take a hit when the stealerships have been giving it to the consumer for years. I get dealers need to make a profit to remain in business but sticking it to customers is not the way to build or maintain a trusted business.

[@CharlesAnsman]

I don't need to borrow money, I want a deep discount. 5% over invoice would be fair. It should only take 1 hour to complete the sale, I pick the model, you give me a price, I write you a check. Deal done 🙂

[@HBRVLifestyle]

5% really doesn’t pay the bills. a dealership needs to make minimum total between 8 1/2 and 9% to pay the bills so if you’re paying cash which again I never say is a bad bad thing I just say it’s a reason why there’s not a lot of negotiation so if you told dealer 8% 9% over invoice cash deal they probably would do that

[@Flintstone238]

First of all, you need a 101 in buying an RV. Good luck 👍🏻

[@Golden.5555]

Exactly right I refuse to buy right now because I know rates are going to go down

[@HBRVLifestyle]

They are not.going down fast. The Fed more then likely will not lower rates at their level till late next year because of inflation being sticky.. This is a voluntary lower. When rates go down drastically, dealerships will raise prices. THAT BEING Said. If you do not mind spending more on the purchase price to get a lower rate, then wait until middle to end of next year

[@RobertHasty]

Was just quoted 6% rate on a 60k purchase with 760 credit score.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

That is a buy down rate that is not a true rate. That means there’s profit in that $60,000 purchase enough to buy down the rate

[@chrisslater1936]

What are you buying? That's insane..lowest ive seen is 7.49

[@BrianLuoma-b3n]

Great videos! Where is your dealership?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Nevada

[@The-Wills-on-wheels]

I’m interested in the 3950 Brinkley toy hauler, what’s your opinion on them? I currently have 2023 Vortex

[@HBRVLifestyle]

I think Brinkley just hasn’t been in the market long enough to know what it’s really will do. To new to tell. Genesis Supreme is battle tested and I like them a lot compared to most other Toyhaulers

[@The-Wills-on-wheels]

@@HBRVLifestyle unfortunately our vortex is a complete lemon. 2023 and had to do springs, mind you I only have a 2 seat Rzr. Main A/C unit broke had to replace it. Water leaks everytime we set it up. Feel a little defeated by it but continue to repair myself as getting into a shop is 3 month process. Do you carry Brinkley at your dealer?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

@@The-Wills-on-wheels I do not. Sorry to hear about the Vortex. That is rare to hear that many problems with a Genesis Product. Not saying they are perfect. Maybe as my channel grows, manufactureers like Brinkley will let me roast them

[@The-Wills-on-wheels]

@@HBRVLifestyle my cousin has a Vortex that has had very few problems, think I just got the Friday afternoon build. I’m not bad mouthing genesis, I personally think they are better than most. Bad apples can show up in any bunch. I personally just haven’t had a good experience.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

@@The-Wills-on-wheels I understand

[@lionessontherise2403]

So how do lenders feel about those who purchase and live full time in the 5th wheel seeing as that what so many here on KZbin are showing you the lifestyle of what they are doing?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Banks do not lend to full-time RVers. More than likely bought it before they sold their house or rented their house out. These days are going back to what they were doing about seven years ago and googling your address or putting your address in Zillow to see if your house is up for sale

[@lionessontherise2403]

OK I get that I think maybe they’re not telling them that they plan on going full-time RV. Maybe selling their homes after that. But for someone like me, I work from home and I’m in an apartment I can move around to different states and work. I can be there for six weeks at a time my base state for work would continue to be Washington state,and I would be here maybe six months out of the year. I wouldn’t keep renting an apartment I would stay with my sister who does own her house. I also have a close friend who has a really big house. All of our kids are grown and he lives alone. Does that mean that they won’t finance me? Or would I be considered trying to full-time RV because of that?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

@@lionessontherise2403 This is something I will also cover in my next live stream. In this scenario, 2-3 months before you make the purchase, Open a credit card with your sisters address. Then go on all 3 credit bureaus and change your address to your sisters. Since that will be your "base of operations" it will show a track record of a new physical address.

[@chriscarpenter6241]

I did watch. Thank you.

[@CarlasLovingWife]

Nice!

[@gb7203]

Where are you located?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Nevada

[@mikeparkin7262]

Whats your view on the grand design reflection travel trailers in terms of frame flex?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

I have not heard of a lot of problems with the travel trailers. It’s mostly been 5th Wheel.

[@OurFamilyAdventures]

I am looking at buying a Grand Design 22BHE in about 4 weeks. I am hoping it is a good one. I am not liking what I keep hearing about the problems with GD. Not that I am getting a fifth wheel but I had wanted a GD because of the great customer service and now I’m not sure if I want any of their products.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

@@OurFamilyAdventures The travel trailers so far have not been the problem, However I would probably look at another product just in case. Cougar, Rockwood, Flagstaff, Freedom Express, Apex.

[@Stepdaddy8969]

👍🏽

[@leveragecomics5067]

Thanks!

[@HBRVLifestyle]

Thank you for the support

[@denny702]

Love your honesty, What do you think of Outdoors RV?

[@HBRVLifestyle]

They are a fabulous company. EXPENSIVE!!! But Fabulous

[@j.l.salayao8055]

I live fulltime for six years (and counting) in a 31 feet 2017 Outdoors RV 25rds travel trailer with 1 slide purchased new. Never been to a service shop since day one. Has only couple minor things to fix. Drove it to washboards and other rugged terrains and holding up pretty well. ORV is cousin or sisters to Nash, Arctic, fox, wind river: Northwood manufacturing products. All 4 season products and highly recommended by people who resides in harsh climates.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

@@j.l.salayao8055 Its is a great Brand. But No RV is truly 4 seasons. That does not take away from the awesomeness of Outdoors, Nash, or Northwood in general

[@Stormi68]

Thank you so much!!

[@HBRVLifestyle]

You are very much welcome

[@davidwashechek6036]

What's hurting the RV industry the most right now is RV dealerships. Greedy for sales, and no accountability. There is no franchise agreement between manufacturers and any RV dealership. Meaning your factory warranty is at the sole mercy and discretion of that dealer. Not the way I want to spend 100k plus!! Franchise agreements would weed out bad dealers, and help good dealership thrive. And then customers will spend 100k plus again.

[@HBRVLifestyle]

That is false. I know that is not what you want to hear. The warranty has nothing to do with the Dealership. And if you saw the Heavy Losses Dealerships have been taking over the last 18 months…you may not have the same opinion