RV News - Florida's State Park Blunder - January 2024

[@ralphp3057]

As a Florida resident for over 60 years. I welcome anytime to slow down the snowbird assault on our parks . Put yourself in our place . I’ve seen our population go from 4.2 million in 1975 to 23 million! I have been camping mostly in the summer months here because Everything is booked during our cooler months! I have been writing Tallahassee for years to change something. As for the RV industry. I liked your report. Looks like a slow down was expected! Thanks for sharing John .👍😁

[@Perseus109]

As a Florida resident, I agree, but it should have been limited to weekends, let everyone have a shot at weekdays, when a lot of us are at work.

[@ralphp3057]

@@Perseus109 I don’t understand what you mean? It’s about long stays by non residents.

[@Freedom2Live]

We will have no problem taking the weekdays off to stay at these spots. As a born Floridian, so happy to have this bill and an opportunity to finally camp.

[@ralphp3057]

@@Freedom2Live I think it will help .😁

[@JohnMarucci]

Ralph, I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I think you will have opportunity now to book during cooler months. Just be ready at the 11 months out to grab those prime sites. I would do the same if I were a resident. I'd recommend Colt Creek Site 2 and 6, which have full hookups. It is the quietest park I've been to as it is 16 miles away from any town. All the best and enjoy the parks!

[@rickcampbell8010]

So happy as a Florida resident to be able to use my state parks when I want to! FLORIDA has some of the best, if not the best state parks in the country, we will have no problem filling our campsites, only now it will be with FLORIDA residents!

[@JohnMarucci]

You’ll may still need to book 10 months out as a resident or many of the site may still be taken by nonresidents, especially in the winter. I think planning is still the key for residents. What you do get as a resident (if you plan well) is easier access to the more popular campgrounds. Time will tell how the parks do with new set up. I do think a local is more likely to cancel last minute vs some who is in Florida from a distance. It will be interesting to track. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@Freedom2Live]

Yes, I agreed!

[@ralphp3057]

@@JohnMarucci I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic to anyone. I understand all your views . I just don’t agree. You did ask for comments! Thanks for sharing John .😁

[@JohnMarucci]

Thanks Ralph!

[@AWOLlcdrpeterson]

As a Florida Resident and Fulltimer, I LOVE the new Florida State Park Reservation Rules. I was actually able to book back to back reservations at Curry Hammock and Bahia Honda when the booking window opened! That has NEVER happened before. Not sure how they do it, but previously, BOTS would attack the website when the availability opened at 0800, and even though I am pretty good at grabbing spots the second they open up, I was never fast enough. I heard from another RVer that some out of state folks had these BOTS set up and literally were booking up all the popular spots and then dividing them later among friends (selling them?). Bottom Line - The State Parks exist to view the parks and support the residents of Florida. The State Parks are not winter homes for out of state campers. Sorry, but the snowbirds should use another method to winter over in Florida and not take up all the spaces in the State Parks. I appreciate your points, but don't agree. Have a Great Day!

[@JohnMarucci]

Thanks for weighing in with your opinion. I guess we’ll see over time how it works out. I do know for several years I’ve been able to book sites at various locations without too much trouble but not the campgrounds you mentioned. Glad you were able to get into those campgrounds.

[@Yosho359]

As a Florida resident, couldn’t agree with you more! We love to share our wonderful state, and it’s not lost on us our economy is greatly aided by out of state tourism dollars, but residents have taken a back seat for too long when it comes to availability at our parks. Those of us who have kids and are not yet retired, shouldn’t have to explain to them that we can’t get a camp site for half the year in our own state because they’re all taken by out of state visitors.

[@AWOLlcdrpeterson]

@@Yosho359 Great Point! Why is it a crime to reserve a spot for only the weekend? Thanks.

[@twincamthom6883]

@@Yosho359agreed. We were finally able to book Bahia for Christmas this year and that never happened before under the old rules. Maybe controversial, but I think they should have went further with higher rates for out of state guests on top of the extra month.

[@JohnMarucci]

I think the original point in my first video about letting the market set the price would mean that non-residents would be deterred from using the state parks if the entry fees were high enough. That is all you really would need. If a state park is priced higher than a local private campground for non-residents, it would deter bookings and open up capacity for residents without lowering revenue much. Sure, some non-residents would still try and book, but many would go elsewhere. At some price point for non-residents, you let the market and not a rule determine the outcome. My firm belief is that this subsidy won't work long-term for the parks to stay healthy, but if I were a resident, I would take full advantage of the benefit and would be tempted to book a bunch of sites at 11 months out. Cancellation fees are minimal after all.

[@juanoquendo]

This should not be an issue for snowbirds since it is an open secret on how they circumvent the 2 week stay limit at all of our state parks. Just checked the site and there are NO RV spots at any of the popular state parks until April. Guess who are taking them up.

[@JohnMarucci]

Hmm. There are always Floridians at the state parks, even in the winter. So it is not just non-residents camping in winter. I have seen this regularly and the data backs this up. Does the ratio of residents to non-residents change in winter? Yes, depending on the park. I have actual data on this provided by the state parks. You can only stay 14 nights at a park in one booking. Also, campers are permitted up to 56 nights of total occupancy in any one park in each six-month period, defined as Oct. 1 - March 31, and April 1 - Sept. 30 (this is straight from the state park website). Can you explain the "open secret" you mention, as I'm unaware?

[@Max-on-Tour]

As an other Florida resident I too welcome the change in reservation policies. I too believe that your criticism is mostly self-serve. And you can always move sites if you can't book 2 weeks in the same site. Looking at you examples in your video, you could have easily stayed 2 weeks by moving sites. Something we have done numerous times in the past. In your example you could have easily moved one site over to number 58. It clearly showed empty. And who knows, maybe we won't see empty sites anymore in the future when the reservation system shows the park full. Like the one time at Collier Seminole where I was happy to book the last site, only to find only 13 sites occupied when we got there. Per one of the rangers, all no-shows. Time will tell. Full-time like us or part-time, the number one thing is to be flexible. Thanks to flexibility we have had no problem whatsoever to find parks in Florida even in high season and even on short notice.

[@JohnMarucci]

The issue is you can book all of what is shown in the grid and I can’t. I have to wait a few days to find a site open to change to, and by that time a resident could have taken it. For me, it won’t be worth the risk. I think this killed it for non-residents who plan longer trips, which is fine for most residents. I do think the parks will lose considerable revenue as local campers can cancel plans easily. We’ll see.

[@markwarbeck2968]

If John is right and this causes many sites to be unused midweek revenue goes down, something has to give. Maybe prices will go up to cover the loss. Or maybe it will impact that great homestead exemption on real estate tax. (I greatly enjoyed that tax break when I was a Floridian). Face the facts: tourism drives the economy down there. Don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

[@corrinethomas6791]

Sorry but as a Florida resident these are the problems we were having has snowbirds were doing the same thing. I am for the new law so that we can finally camp in our own state

[@JohnMarucci]

Just be ready at 11 months out to take advantage of the new law. All the best!

[@willjay916]

Re:Florida State Parks reservation system - two thoughts come to mind. The first is the quotation from Maya Angelou "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time" , and the second is the expression "Don't go where you are not wanted."

[@JohnMarucci]

Thanks for sharing!

[@samsellers6928]

I think its great that Fla is trying to make the parks available to the people who live there and not for people looking for a cheap place to live.

[@robertthompson6958]

You keep beating the drum on this Florida resident thing. Many see giving locals a ‘little’ head start many months out as a good thing. After all they pay the taxes and they live in the state. With all due respect John I feel your concerns mostly stem from your own self interest. You want a campsite and you feel you’re being denied because locals get first crack. And you’re even willing to pay more to edge the locals out. You’re using the argument “maximize revenue” like this is a Fortune 500 company. I think this policy came about by locals who complain they have to fight outsiders to enjoy their own state parks. I will add this which somewhat supports your point of view: reality is reality and the real test of this new policy system is how many campsite nights weren’t reserved year over year because they were available midweek only with weekends taken by locals. Who wants to stay in a park where they can’t reserve a decent stay time. It may ultimately come down to a compromise where locals get a first crack on a portion of the bookings with a portion immediately being thrown open to out-of-staters. But you’ll have to wait a year or two to see the statistics. I suspect the Florida parks service has worked out revenue/utilization projections and have a notion of what’s to come.

[@JohnMarucci]

Thank for sharing your thoughts on the subject. I honestly think the subsidy is a long-term mistake but once a subsidy is given, it usually won’t be retracted. If park quality deteriorates due to less revenue over time, I guess I’ll be correct. We won’t be able to know for some time. Thanks again!

[@zygmuntziokowski7877]

Great Video and I agree with on the Florida State Park network. You might be able to get a State Park site during, but not on weekend. I been trying to plan a trip to Florida for a year and waiting the right time window. I prefer the way they do it in Virginia where they charge more on the weekend. Or in South Carolina, where they don't offer senior to Veteran status unless you are from SC. But most of all, I prefer the way the NFS, NC, and Texas, you can only book 6 months out. That way you have chance to book for popular location. But that is me.

[@JohnMarucci]

Michigan is also six months out. Interestingly, a state rep tried to introduce a similar bill in Michigan a few years ago and the DNR strongly opposed it citing the animosity it would create among non-resident visitors.

[@patrickmckowen2999]

Great update John 👍 As for Florida, and as a non-Snowbird Ontarian, they should be able to book it anyway they want to. When the time comes, I will be happy to spend my money in one of your other warm States. Maybe I will do the extra long haul over to Cali, I prefer a dryer heat anyway🤣. Best wishes to all. Cheers

[@JohnMarucci]

Thanks Patrick!

[@technojerry]

The law is doing what is supposed to do, ALLOW FL residences use THEIR state parks. If want to crash FL for the winter, book private and stop whining. You are not blocked out, but just can’t screw the locals the time the have off, the weekends. I applaud FL for sticking up for their residents. If they change to your plan, then they should charge out of state people at least as much or more than commercial campgrounds so you don’t block out the weekends for locals to enjoy their state parks. All states have vacancies on weekends BTW except FL in the winter. FL state budget is doing fine and I don’t think they will miss a bunch of cheap campers trying to only use state parks versus commercial campgrounds. Stop whining.

[@JohnMarucci]

Arguing for a better solution is whining? I disagree with your definition of whining. I've enjoyed the state parks for many years and think the current solution is a subsidy for residents and doesn't provide any incentive for the Parks to expand capacity, which is the real problem. State population has increased greatly and yet campsite capacity hasn't kept up with growth. Prices are artificially low and cancellation rates will likely be higher with residents under the new law, yielding less revenue. I think this is fairly easy to see. Imagine next winter in January, when a resident has a weekend booking and a few days prior it is forecasted to be 35 degrees, with heavy rain all weekend. The resident simply cancels and incurs the $17+ cancellation fee. If someone from a distance is booked, they can't cancel, simply because they are far from home and there is no other option. Thus, my reasoning why we'll likely see higher cancelation rates from residents, yielding less revenue to the parks over time. It's a theory that I think will prove out over time evidenced by lower park revenue and thus a deteriorating state of the parks and eventually higher fees to everyone. If I'm wrong, great. My solution was to increase pricing for non-residents to the market rate (see the first video last May). It would deter bookings from non-residents and yield higher revenue from those who choose to pay the higher rate. The only residents the timing advantage will benefit are those who plan out 11 months in advance (many already do so). These folks will have less competition to get sites early. Likely, some residents will book several sites in advance and later choose which to drop (unless the state parks have curtailed concurrent bookings, I'd have to double check this). The timing difference almost guarantees this outcome. No one is able to answer why 11 months and not 6 months is a reasonable time window. Longer out only means more people will speculate and reserve sites they may not use. As far as your argument about all states other than Florida having winter month vacancies, most are closed up north, so I'm not sure what point you are making. In high season up north (summer), you can't get weekend bookings similar to Florida in the winter. Maybe I'm not following your logic here? I do appreciate a good counter argument as to why this new law will work more than just because Florida residents deserve it because they live here and pay taxes. Taxes are a tricky subject for Floridians and you'll want to provide facts on dollars going to state coffers from tourists and seasonal occupants, federal funds (e'g. disaster relief), etc. before asserting that the state is fine without these sources. Like Hawaii, Florida residents benefit greatly from the unique climate and people wanting to be there in winter (and spend money). There are significant subsidies that residents already receive from this geographic location, such as no income tax IMO. In Hawaii, it's free healthcare. Either way, tourism dollars and federal funding of various things contributes to these beneficial subsidies to residents. I really am open to an honest dialog over the issue and will gladly be proven wrong with facts and data. After seeing the first month of real booking data, it only reaffirms my original concerns about what will happen.

[@Brineytoes]

It works out GREAT for us, as Hubs has Wednesday afternoons, Thursdays, and Fridays off work, so we can actually find a spot to camp! As it warms up, we will be heading out more and more on those days. Since last July, we have only been able to book on Arvie when someone canceled. It’s part of the adventure, but with so little time off, it would be nice to camp our own state.

[@JohnMarucci]

You should be able to find weekday sites readily from what I can see. All the best!

[@ralphp3057]

I totally agree with you! I like any change .

[@jillritchie8976]

Thanks John... we so agree with you about the State parks reservation change. We will not be down next year.

[@JohnMarucci]

It’s looking like the same for me. Private campgrounds are likely not an option, so I’ll likely have to try something else. It’s too bad as I was a big supporter of the parks over the past several years.

[@ralphp3057]

Thanks for not coming down! Appreciate helping us out ! 😁👍

[@jillritchie8976]

Yes I've watched all your videos on the State Parks in Florida and they really helped us decide where to try thanks so much for all your work and information. We are at Topsail hill for the first time and I am really happy we came up to this part of Florida. We Love the 30A and all the quaint communities and I am liking the cooler weather as I can get my runs in any time of the day. @@JohnMarucci

[@JohnMarucci]

Great to hear. I like Topsail and Grayton Beach very much. All the best!

[@mgysgtk8835]

As always great info.

[@JohnMarucci]

Many thanks!

[@MR-si1eq]

Excellent information. One other thing that may help is making a refundable deposit a little tougher. By that I mean. Make it more of a discouraged. How much I don't know. (2weeks?) That way its kind of a win/win. The park keeps the deposit if no one reboots that spot or as long as the original booking. And it gives others a chance to make a last minute booking. Just a thought. I know I have talked with people who have said they book spots with no intention of going but wanted to make sure just incase. Then they cancel last minute. Get their money back and others are screwed. 😢 As much as I hate to say it. We usually book a couple of 2 or 3 months at best. Sometimes for the next weekend. But that's us.

[@JohnMarucci]

I think you’ll likely see tougher cancellation policies and higher rates in the future. In the short term, if you are a Florida resident, take full advantage of the current situation. You’ll still have to plan ahead, but the opportunity abounds.

[@TrailRunning-CampingYeti]

Great video John & good seeing you back. Can't agree more on FL and was a stupid move

[@JohnMarucci]

Thanks!

[@ralphp3057]

I disagree.

[@TrailRunning-CampingYeti]

@@ralphp3057 ok

[@Sixbears]

I'm pretty much done with snowbirding FL right now. Guess I'll save a bundle of money -money FL could have had.

[@JohnMarucci]

It’s looking the same for me unfortunately. I opened Colt Creek in 2018 (was one of the first campers) and have greatly enjoyed the parks. Looks like this will change things for me going forward.

[@Yosho359]

I’m curious how you both would feel if you couldn’t get a camp spot in your home state for more than half the year because they were all taken by non residents? I’m in my 40s with two young children, why should retiree’s from out of state deprive my children of camping in their own state parks?

[@ralphp3057]

Thanks so much for staying away ! 😁

[@Sixbears]

I feel fine. That's summer in NH.@@Yosho359

[@Sixbears]

It has become easier and easier to stay away. @@ralphp3057