RWBY Just isn't the same: The pillars of Monty Oum

[@khalidhenry3857]

The goal isn't to live on forever; it's to make something that does. ---Monty Oum

[@TheClarkBark]

Which unfortunately isn’t going to be RWBY.

[@chris9206]

Clark No fandom is complaint free but toxicity is best avoided as its only harmful. This day of age every game release is now "controversial". If something is bugging you then be constructive or leave, which is why most of the Star Wars fans are leaving Star Wars.

[@Dragonage2ftw]

Inspiring shit, laddie.

[@tuscag]

Fucking beautiful

[@aiden4917]

True but nothing lasts forever so I wonder why even try? (Even starwars fell once corrupted)

[@ocarinaplaya]

There are three key things missing from the fight scenes: 1) Weight- The characters are too floaty and bounce back super hard which is jarring to the viewer. 2) Momentum- Characters seem to have stop-and-go physics that just looks off. 3) Flow- The various moves and attacks used throughout volume 3 onwards don't seem to be as connected as they were with Monty at the helm. It's like a skilled Street Fighter player was replaced by a button masher.

[@chris9206]

Not to be mean here. This is more story driven with less fighting, which started after a tournament season. Other then that its a new team and new software program. Lastly Monty was far from perfect especially when they're following his notes and he created some of the problems by throwing in some unfleshed out ideas every so often.

[@Selvokaz]

I'd say 1 and 2 apply to the entire series just incase you were implying otherwise, I wasn't sure.

[@ataraxia2894]

Chris Klos ooh boy, if you want to talk about its story, I have a plethora of videos tearing its story writing.

[@thehousealwayswins8398]

Something always struck me as off about the Volume 4 animations, and it wasn't until I watched this video that I realized what it was. It was the lack of weight to all the figures, as they all seemed very floaty and lacking in mass. With the first three volumes you can almost feel all the blows, they had impact and gravity. You can definitely see the switch from motion capture to key frames here, and as you said the lack of rhythm in the fights made this weightlessness more notable.

[@razchaklaoch7951]

Watched the first epeisode as well as the trailers. I think they realised that the impacts were too weightless. Still don't seem to be the same as the original, but it's a definitive improvement.

[@thehousealwayswins8398]

Agreed. They definitely improved, especially in the Weiss and Yang trailers. Now I just hope they'll work on regular character movement, as it still seems a bit floaty.

[@rwbimbie5854]

Lack of weight? V4 had them literally FLYING & HOVERING. Monty used slow motion to emphasize time a character spent in the air.. seen in the v1 Trailer Airborne Closeups. V4 had a character zoom into scene horizontally 20ft up, come to a complete stop by just wilpower, and HOVER there for a moment... all while the scene progressed at regular speed around her. Monty did it in v1, but as farcical loony toons fall while v4 wants us to take it seriously as part of a fight

[@thehousealwayswins8398]

I suggest you read my comment again. You seem to be confused about something.

[@pacificace20]

I agree with the house I still enjoy RWBY but it took me a while to get over the feeling that the hits did not sound like brutal impacts. In volume 1, 2, and 3 they do and it can be seen in red vs blue as well.

[@d1l4te43]

The fact that Monty is no longer able to directly give his influence on any new RWBY content makes a huge difference. Maybe the animators and writers can try and emulate Monty's style, but it will never be the same. There isn't a copy/paste of his brain. While I do hope that RT improves and continues to learn, I don't feel like I can tell them "be just like Monty" because no one else can be just like him. We may have to face the facts that RWBY might never be the same again. I personally miss the comedy that was in the early days of RWBY. Monty's influence was more than just the animation, it was everything. For all his hard work and passion I thank him and hope he rests in peace.

[@dc7981]

D1L4TE Haha....no

[@d1l4te43]

Living Jojo Reference No what?

[@absol102]

LMAOOO true I loved the comedy in volume

[@miket4092]

Fantastic constructive criticism, thank you! The "dance" insight was so on point.

[@lanepalmer]

I completely agree. The old style was so much better.

[@LegendsForever206]

Lane Palmer No it wasn't

[@arceptor]

Yes, it was.

[@kingduckdodo6672]

It's cringey but cool and awesome.

[@anlexaify]

@@kingduckdodo6672 ... What?

[@Verillionmiles]

Might I also recommend another factor? Shot composition and tracking. Monty understood that showing an action in its entirety: the initiation, the build up, the impact, and the resistance. All four of these aspects are normally shown in his work in a single shot. Which may not be impressive from a directorial standpoint but from an action standpoint make the fight seem more fluid and clear since the observer doesn't have to adjust to every single new angle and cut. For example, when Monty cuts in a fight it is because the audience is being given a moment of rest, like Yang's smirk in the Yellow trailer, or Ruby landing on the cliff side with the nevermore. Moments of stillness can actually make a movement feel even more impactful since the audience can let everything that came before settle and everything that comes after is fresh. The new animation style has the unfortunate issue of being shot like it is an action film. Cuts are now used to sell an action's direction in one shot and an action's result in another. Rather than the 'all in one shot' intensity that Monty used. Additionally the moments of stillness really don't work in the more recent animation since we can easily understand everything that is happening as the action's are broken down shot by shot. We are getting rests we don't deserve. This has definitely been improved, for example Volume 5's Yang character short has a FANTASTIC tracking shot where you get to see all of the action and movement occurring in a single frame, a well placed rest shot, and then the impact. I hope that Roosterteeth continue to do that, because Monty's animation and direction technique is frankly the reason I'm in university learning to animate and produce digital content.

[@Verillionmiles]

Actually, another good example is Yang's fight with Neo in Volume 2. Specifically the shot where Neo is moving around Yang, an intense action sequence with a lot of complicated movement. And then following it a still moment where Neo sits on the crate. This is another instance of the 'lots of movement' followed by 'rest shot'.

[@CakeStation]

Absolutely, Monty understood that if you're going to do a lot of crazy stuff on screen, don't add an extra layer of confusion on top of all that quick movement, shoot it in wides, the longer a take is, the better. Some people may think that the long shots and wide angles were all for "wow" factor, but it was always for clarity.

[@bigbadbob7070]

Mogu Mogu Monster too bad the new animators don’t understand as Monty did.

[@wolfofsummerbreeze]

Also, dont break up fights for dialogue when there are still fights in the background?? It flows horribly

[@satanickoala11347]

Oh my gosh, you've put what I've been feeling for years into words. I've always had a hard time keeping up with the fights since volume 3, even though Rooster Teeth's animation drastically improved after volume 4. All the changes in cuts and angles are disorienting, and the moments of stillness weren't enough for me to be able to catch up regardless of how well they were placed. (Admittedly, this may be more of a user error than a matter of taste.😅) I miss Monty's style and pizazz more than anything. As an aside, I hope your time in university went well! :)

[@lofibutterfly1779]

Even though I still enjoy RWBY without Monty animating it, I appreciate your constructive criticism and I can actually see some of the flaws in the newer volumes. Thanks.

[@CakeStation]

I aim to please!

[@dankovskimark4540]

The guy should've finished Dead Fantasy. RWBY was uninspired waste of time and man's talent.

[@budhurt4562]

Dankovski Mark4 I think Monty was more capable of determining what was worth his time than some random dime-a-dozen armchair critic on KZbin.

[@dankovskimark4540]

Bud Hurt. And I think he was a failiure, who wasted his talent on shitty show instead of finishing something of worth. But nothing to be done here, guy died for this shit. Shame, really.

[@budhurt4562]

Dankovski Mark4 Says the salty little piss baby whining on the internet about how their favorite thing wasn't given enough attention. Let's hear your accomplishments, buddy and we'll let merit decide whether or not anything you think matters.

[@UneekWolf]

I don't really know much about animation. All I know is that (and i'm not upset by this video, I think you've made some very valid points) without Monty, the show will never truly be the same again. I'm honestly wondering how hard it was for them to work on the next season after he passed away. It couldn't have been easy

[@smashfam1]

Youre totally correct, to the point that it hurts. To me RWBY lose its charm when Monty died, yeah visuals are a lot better thats good also, yes characters are more defined (expect Blake I mean, wft is she did in Volume 4? And Ruby? Shes a secondary character in her own show now xd) but the action and the cool fight scenes? Wheres the grimm in Volume 5? The part that sucks now is that we will never see a decent fight in the future, the actual RT prefers drama and romantic-funny stuff that action :(

[@LeonGun8]

The show was not about Ruby,it was about RWBY. There's a difference.

[@robertpendli340]

@@LeonGun8 ruby was the main character even of the four, now Jaune (Miles' character) is now the closest thing we have to a main character

[@arthurmorgan9894]

They support woke diversity which is also bullshit

[@dr.bathoundkrypto4034]

Rest in peace, Monty

[@RegularAussieBrony]

probably rolling in his grave at how trash rwby's animation is

[@marlom7882]

Irony Clad kinda harsh… however I have to say that *some* of the drama in it is kinda ham fisted and now really slow paced

[@CaptainDope]

I agree with most things you said. But I think you forgot something that should have been mentioned: the cinematography. Monty's animations were fast and flashy, but you could still clearly see them all thanks to the well placed camera angle and distance, as well as not having too many cuts. A lot of the action in volume 4 have many cuts in a short amount of time. The camera sometimes gets too close to the action. It makes it harder to follow. It's something they need to work on to be honest. Did you see the second Weiss trailer? The cinematography was a bit better there. RWBY is known for its fighting scenes, but volume 4 was a bit of a letdown, and it wasn't just the animation. The pacing, gravity, mass, weight, unnecessary humor, build up and pay off, no consequences. The action was not the only letdown in the volume. I could elaborate but don't want to write too much.

[@CakeStation]

I agree about the cinematography, but to keep things clear, I decided to challenge this from a strictly animation standpoint. And yeah, I saw the new Weiss trailer and I almost want to make a video specifically about that. Out of everything we were given in volume 4 in regards to fight animation, the new Weiss trailer was personally infuriating considering how masterfully crafted the "White" trailer was.

[@soarel325]

The constant interruptions are the biggest issue. The flow just grinds to a halt so that characters can stand around and talk or do nothing.

[@Darkscoper]

I don't know, outside of fight scenes Volume 4 was the best hands down.

[@soarel325]

>railroaded formula plot >all original antagonists replaced with meme characters >ugly character models and shadows (these are getting better in V5 thankfully) >most of yang's recovery happens offscreen >everything about sun in blake's arc V4 was pretty garbage. At least Ren and Nora's arc was good, Tyrian is an adequate replacement for Roman, and Weiss' arc was (mostly) solid.

[@zachhecita]

Really, Cake? I thought that the Weiss character short was the first non-Monty RWBY animation that held a candle to his work. It had rhythm, poses, character (debatable), and the rule of cool.

[@DavidGarcia-679]

After what you said about Ruby's scythe I watched the series again and I realize that she hasn't used her scythe in volume 3 too much either (obviously because she just fought in the first round of the Tournament), and Qrow, who also uses a scythe, has never used it in the series (only in volume 3 to cut a grimm), not even in his fight with Tyriant. So, what if the animators don't know how to animate scythe moves? It's just what I think, but it could be a possibility

[@Hunter-sw3rl]

I always saw it as her adapting it her fighting style

[@EmptyFeet]

aah thank god, I had the exact same feeling about the first ep of season 4 and it's a weird relief to see it all articulated like this. thanks. (honestly the most recent episode has been giving me the same slow, tired feeling and it's a real bummer)

[@CrystalArtest]

Monty's fight animation had good speed and flow to me (animation student). I think volume 5 fight animation has started to mimic that. The new White and Yellow character shorts were set to music so that helped. Weiss was literally dancing as she fought.

[@jasonsnider3133]

roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-rewind-1-4-erh56 If you have a first membership, this is a video of an animator detailing the process of animating a fight scene, and people who followed Monty know it's basically in theory the guidelines he followed.

[@CrushableDread]

Kristin Glenn Weiss never even did her stance before a lunge, and Yang uselessly launched herself at a Grim only to sprint for two seconds, losing all possible momentum for the first attack.

[@tyennille]

Somone else that reminds me why I'm not tripping over volume 5

[@jackmcgloin3709]

TaîRøne Yennille what are you talking about. are you going to inject rwby volume 5 into your blood stream like its a drug or something

[@ianrandolph6436]

i.imgur.com/HPBnLUA.gif

[@NewSparky97]

I haven't watched RWBY since the end of Volume 3. I watched the first episode of Volume 4, and decided I didn't want to watch anymore. And it was solely because the one thing I loved and watched RWBY for was gone. Monty's fight animation style, choreography and cinematography were the biggest reasons I loved the show. Now, without him, and without them by extension, I don't care to watch the show. Because it doesn't feel right. It feels mediocre by comparison. The overall clarity and smoothness of animation and modeling, for me, do not make up for what we lost when Monty passed. I hope, so badly, that for Volume 6, or even before, someone in charge at RT Animation looks back and has the team analyze what made Monty's animation so unique and enjoyable. Because it as much as it was his individual skill as an animator, and his absolutely mad work ethic, it was also that he had rules he followed when designing a scene and a character. When or if that ever happens, I will watch RWBY again. And I will be overjoyed.

[@lawansardar9563]

I know this is a year old. But do you think the fight animation improved in volume 6?

[@mercury2157]

Even if the show was heavily flawed when Monty was around, it still had a VERY strong sense of identity, heart, soul, and fluidity in its animation that we lost alongside him

[@Jorigin]

Thank you! This is exactly the issue with the later seasons of RWBY without Monty. I still like it, but it's seriously not the same without him at the helm. Both in the action and animating, and the clunky storyline and pacing of shots + story. Incredibly underrated video, this should have millions of views. I've subbed.

[@Metsa25]

One of my favorite moments in RWBY is during the Pyrrha v. Team CRDL, I love when Pyrrha throws her shield and double taps two opponents in perfect sync with the music. That whole fight is one of the high points of the series imo. Side note: I can't understand why people criticize the early animation. It's its own thing. It's like saying Vincent Van Gogh isn't as good a painter as Norman Rockwell, because it's less realistic and different from what everyone else was doing. I liked it's rawness.

[@xirensixseo]

Im first going to establish that i have been in 8 serious street fights so far and is a training martial artist. Sparring using weapons, swords for example, work best with a high level of rythemic sense, therefore i have some insight on how the action plays and what makes a fight good to watch. I am not an animator, just an artist. I felt bad when i saw the new fighting styles in rwby, i agree with all your points, but Monty's cinematography is the best. A good example is the first 5 minutes of dead fantasy 1 and all of the action in the Weiss character short put side by side. In monty's work, the scene was focused on what was important and how every character and dynamic flowed with each other. In the weiss character short, its there and rooster teeth's focus on the younger and inexperienced weiss is clear, but it isnt focused. Monty's work is fast paced ant takes 60 watch sessions to completely capture everything going on which is a flaw but also makes the scene exciting and fandom worthy. The weiss character short dosent have as many cuts, which fixes the flaws in monty's style but overdoes it. Thats my only complain besides all your points on the action in RWBY vol. 4, and probably 5

[@Ari-6]

What you are describing is exactly what I saw in that first episode. However talking about this stuff at any length will usually receive cries of "No, it's still as good, it's just a different style" Anyway, you talk about your points well, I'll definitely be staying tuned!

[@CakeStation]

On one hand, I agree with that argument. It is a different style, and the show has the right to change in favor of a different direction if it wants to. The problem is that it isn't and when it tries, it fails. If you don't want to be action oriented anymore, get rid of the pointless fight scenes and focus on the new priorities. I'm just not seeing the change they want us to see, all I see is a poor attempt at replicating what used to be and labeling the show's shortcomings as growing pains or creative differences.

[@strausserlunario2645]

Shane was the last person in the animation team I felt knew how monty made those "cool" fight scenes but due to the clash of him using poser while the rest of the animation team want to move on to maya RWBY awesome fight scenes came to a halt. There were some decent ones left in Vol.3 due to it being animated by shane but Vol.4 and 5 now just feels like every standard anime fight only to end in DEUS EX MACHINA endings what a shame. orz

[@soarel325]

Shane actually only did the tournament fights in episode 1 and 2, as well as the FNKI fight. Thanks to him, all of them except for the very first one were complete garbage. He wasn't really skilled without Monty's help. The rest of V3's fights were brought to you by Dillon Gu and Joel Mann (who's still working at RT and is still lead fight director, but is sadly pushed around by M&K to the point where most fights suck now).

[@-avalon-9440]

Let me ask you a question: When was the last time you saw Ruby use the recoil from her sniper scythe’s gunshot to hit harder?

[@laurenlinterfree6624]

As a long time RWBY fan, I completely agree with everything that you've said. Seeing some of Monty's old school animations for the first time has realised how much of an impact he made on the combat in RWBY, as well as how much I miss the rhythm of the battles from the earlier volumes. While I believe that Volume 5 is a step up from Volume 4 - as it was much more an introduction for the time skip, and felt awkward in lots of its fights - reading through these comments it has suddenly dawned on me that I honestly do miss the Poser style. Sure, it's much more detailed now, but as "The House Always Win" said, it had much more weight. The still shots at the end impacted the gestures so much. "CaptainDope" also expressed that the cinematography of Monty's scenes helped you follow his action packed scenes. I find it so difficult to follow some of the recent battles now. Of course, all this should be taken with a grain of salt. I am in no way an animator, and I could never do anything like it. However, I do want to delve into Film as a career. RWBY's story hasn't failed since the death of Monty - what with most of the storyline already being laid out - and the animation crew should be commended for their hard work. The amount of detail in the scenes today is astounding. Lip syncing, facial expressions are a big improvement from earlier volumes. The costumes and environments are beautiful, and the pacing of the episodes is adequate, (although I'm not sure where the ending of Volume 5 is going). However, I can't help but miss Monty's quirks that made RWBY's battles so amazing. I really hope that the animation team are able to build back up to that in the next Volume.

[@teeswaga]

The quality of the show has indeed improved, as far as story and basic (walking, running, character expression) animations go. However you're 100% right when it comes to what first pulled me into the show. The action. It doesn't come off as exciting anymore. I honestly thought with the upgrade to everything else, they would have made some improvements to the way they did motion capture for show. Instead, it seems like they simply tossed it. As a result, watching the show definitely feels like Monty Oum is gone.

[@wilburforce8046]

the writing has not improved in the slightest the lore is a joke and the plotline seems to attempt to cater as much as it can while always leaving something out....

[@ex-creaturecoby4643]

WilburForce I think most would disagree. The intense plot twists and character development is exactly what Rwby needed and what Monty wanted. It’s more popular now than ever before. I understand the leg down that some of the original fans are feeling, but the newer fans didn’t come to Rwby for the fight scenes alone.

[@JeffNotes]

I just finished watching this RWBY series so far, and loving every moment of it. As a full-time animator, I like your perspective on this, The rule of cool should've definitely been a part of the 12 animation principles, euhh, I guess we could categorize that in "Appeal." We can certainly see the changes after we all lost Monty... Keep this up mann! Already subscribed to your channel =)

[@ocarinaplaya]

The series wouldn't have dipped after Monty's death had the writing team gotten better. I dropped the series after volume 3 due to the cringe-worthy anime cliches and constantly dangling plot points like a carrot on a stick to get you to keep watching. Sooner or later, people are going to not care about that carrot.

[@soarel325]

There already are at least 4 "other Montys".

[@JeffNotes]

Soarel whoa who are these 4 other Monty's??

[@soarel325]

Mark Zhang, Dillon Gu, Tommylau, and Joel Mann (the last of which is actually working as a fight director at RT but is sadly held back by M&K)

[@ocarinaplaya]

They should hire Mr. Lang who did some pretty awesome fights for Death Battle. He could help with the choreography at least.

[@vsGoliath96]

I'm so glad that there are channels like yours to put my problems with the series into words cause I have zero experience in animation and writing to do it myself. God bless the Internet.

[@matthewspencer2094]

I think there is one more core pillar of all Oum animation; you almost never loose suspension of disbelief with the momentum and position of characters.... something that is especially true for RWBY Its why RWBYs use of recoil matters as apposed to being a throwaway gimic, why the back and forward of attack/defense feels like it could have lasting tactical consequence when in most anime it just feels like melodrama, and its the other reason (along with rhythm) his fast paced scenes are easy to follow (the previous shots position/momentum helping you interperate the following shot) When he wanted to cheat momentum or position he would do it in non obvious ways so you always felt like there was consistency there... A lot of volume 4 fights don't have that... characters just move however fight requires them rarely using 'believable' tricks to help sell the changes I still enjoy the show though :)

[@karaokekingskingdom]

ironically season 3 has my favourite fights even though monty had no real input into them. seasons 4 and 5 are a completely different show in my eyes

[@chaosXP3RT]

Novembre Pleut They completed some of Monty's uncompleted fights and used them. The Mercury vs Yang is one example. It was a fight Monty started but didn't finish. Monty's 2 helpers Dylan and Shane did everything else. Shane was fired and Dylan left so now in Vol. 4 & 5, the show's fights had to be made from scratch by new animators.

[@NumbVGI]

That's really interesting, thanks for pointing that out.

[@Coolio_Ash]

Not even 30 seconds into the video and you already have a new subscriber.

[@alexsaunders9914]

Ruby always did that fast teleport thing when you watch the red trailer

[@aMoodyHipster]

Using a scythe on a rock monster wouldn't work

[@alleyway8627]

Brandon Dinh Maybe? When Nora was about to get hit with a rock Ruby cut it in half..

[@jacobfoxfires9647]

Well Ruby is a ranger. She goes into close quarter fights when needed to. Not sure how she can continue to cut down a possessing Grimm if it can get body parts from anything. She needs a lot of endurance and need to tank a few hits just to make progress. And being honest here, do you see Ruby tanking hits from that thing more then Nora could?

[@teeswaga]

Using a scythe on a lot of things wouldn't work.... But in RWBY it works lol.

[@dentons32]

Eh, Ren even mentioned not being able to cut it, so it would only make sense that they'd prefer a more focused impact attack than a cutting one.

[@scrawleditalix2743]

Tbh, I always thought Ruby primarily using the gun there was because she watched Pyrrha die at close range. I felt like she was trying to subconsciously distance herself from the monster.

[@SenseofNoneYT]

I didn't expect much from RWBY fight scenes ever since Monty passed away. But I still stuck around because I do love the series and I do it in honor of Monty. But the things you said here are true. I've noticed every single one of those. Even Nora's pose there. It literally made me wince when I first saw it. But volume 3 had some decent fights in it too imo. Especially Mercury's fights in that season.

[@Icewielderguy]

Yeah i dont know what it is but i literally cannot watch the post Monty seasons of RWBY. All the movements feel extremely artificial and weightless for some reason and i think like u mentioned, rhythm and mocap had a lot to do with that. I get that people disagree with u, but i sure as hell dont. Great vid!

[@FoxPlays_Games]

Monty oum was an amazing friend and animator and he will never be forgotten not so long as we a cherish his work and keep it in a special place in our hearts (keep moving forward - - - monty oum)

[@TyTimeIsAwesome]

Used to be one of the biggest RWBY fans ever. I remember how excited I was waiting for the next episode. Really, I was. I didn't care if I had homework or I worked early the next morning, once that new episode hit I was going to watch it. Now it's like- meh I'll watch it when I have time. And if I didn't have time, oh well maybe later. It makes me feel sad. I don't think RWBY with Monty wasn't just all action scenes that drew me in. It was more. I feel the show was unique because of, well- everything. Fight scenes, weapons, the characters themselves, the flow, etc. Now it's become quite typical and the boring. Honestly, the only reason I even finished V5 is because I wanted to know how the story progresses (and it was boring, but decent in the end). But aside from wanting to know what happens next, the show offers me nothing of how it used to be. I mean the fight scenes are obviously childish compare to Monty's, but it's not just that. I feel the characters are a hollow version of themselves. I think in the end, I'm happy that Monty's creation continues onward even after he's gone, but I'm also sad how bad the show is getting. I would say in the end Monty would at least be proud of RT for trying, but they more than anything it's A for Effort.

[@Hunter-sw3rl]

TyTimeIsAwesome can I ask about how you think the characters are hallow versions?

[@TyTimeIsAwesome]

I feel they're just a cardboard cut up of who they were- or were meant to be. For example, let's take Blake. In V1-2 (and partly V3), she had a unique personality. Quiet, smart, judgemental, and an activist. Now we see her as a whiny and overdramatic girl. I mean, I get that V3E12 is supposed to have scarred our girls, but Blake straight up threw away all her development too easily (I hated the Sun-slapping gag). She is way too harsh on herself and on Sun. I think the character I'm most disappointed in is Yang. Listen, I'm just going to say it, but Yang is supposed to be THE SEXY character, alright? All the boys picked her as his favorite and soon-to-be-waifu cause she looked damn hot in addition her awesome fighting style. Now she's like...this typical...I don't even know how to put it. She's definitely lost her charm. She's trying to hard to be edgy. And Ruby- well it's tough to say cause our little red riding hood still has barely gotten any character developments. All I can say is they make her too whiny. Ruby is supposed to be badass in addition to being the best hero. Yes, she lost two dear friends, but RT did a poor job showing how she coped with it. I should've been in tears in V5 when she was talking about Pyrrha and Penny. Instead I just was like- okay Ruby is crying. My last example is Jaune. From total goofball to still goofball, except we get crying here and there. All that training at night alone and dude was pathetic in the final fight. At least he unlocked his semblance. Alright, obviously now I sound whiny, but that's how I look at the characters. No one piques my interest anymore. Like, back then I was intrigued by R, W, B, Y, or Qrow, or Ozpin, or Raven (god they destroyed Raven so bad). Now I'm just watching the characters do things instead of wondering why, you know? Anyways, end rant. I would like to say I don't dislike post-Monty RWBY as much as it sounds. I've just taken a huge step back as a fan.

[@Hunter-sw3rl]

TyTimeIsAwesome You do sound kinda whiny no offense but I do see where your comeing for with this but with rwby and Jaune it just felt like that were forced to mature like rwby seems a lost more level headed and strong instead of Let’s go kill it attatude and Jaune he was still going agesnt cinder who was way out of Pyrrha’s league before the time skip and had a lot of emotion going through him so honestly I think he did surprisingly well and had the best character development

[@TyTimeIsAwesome]

Haha yah, I know I do. It's just, RWBY use to be one of my favorite shows of all time. I was RWBY-crazy. I still know most details and lines V1-3.

[@Hunter-sw3rl]

TyTimeIsAwesome yea well a lot of your points are understandable

[@VasmX]

I agree that the fight animations definitely dropped since Monty's departure, especially volume 4, but volume 5 is looking pretty promising so far. The volume 5 character shorts, specifically Yang's, looked pretty good; I really liked the camera cuts and angles in that fight with Yang vs Ruby and Yang vs the Grim Bear

[@benderboyboy]

This is really what I've been trying to say to RWBY fans. I love RWBY, but it lost a lot of its fight choreography since Monty. The other thing I miss is Monty's scene direction. He makes the scene a part of the fight, instead of just background, which was really cool.

[@dex3849]

keep up the work and never stop. You're gonna be a serious influence in the animation world, i can feel it. Keep going!

[@gainaxthehorse5362]

Well, send this to Rooster Teeth and hopefully they'll either fix the next volume or give up and try to find some way to resurrect Monty. I mean I'm still enjoying the series so far, but if you think it's a problem, go for it. Anyway, at least now I know how to make my RWBY fanfiction better. All these informational videos and stuff on how to make my stories and drawings better really seem to be keeping my life afloat.

[@AoquesthMcDowell]

FINALLY SOMEONE CAN PUT WORDS ON WHAT I'M THINKING! THANK YOU!

[@aussiepuppet5250]

Good thing is that they are "Starting" to fix this problem In Volume 5. Some of the fights are more similar to Mounty's style than any of the fights in volume 4.

[@TheLammas]

Have you seen ep.11? Because no. Episode 10 gave a sliver of hope only for ep. 11 to take it all away.

[@soarel325]

The weird thing is that episode 12 was even better than episode 10 choreography wise. They had a fight that wasn't interrupted by standing around and talking for once and actually flowed.

[@dankovskimark4540]

What? Volume 5 is total mess.

[@derekdjay]

I like Cinder and Raven's fight in ep. 13. I think they hired one of the old animators for two nights (ep 13, and 14 maybe?) so as to not lose the little fans they still have.

[@jambondepays1969]

yang only ever throws haymakers, Qrow the super fighter is just a human shield for NotOzpin, and his was the only decent-looking fight scene... and it looked like a generic fight scene. not RWBY. I am very tempted to declare rwby is dead. They could attempt to bring in a whole new fight choregrapher (let's be honest, i have no idea who does it right now but it's an embarassment) next season and salvage it, but if it keeps going in that direction, nope, RWBY is well and truly buried. Again, let's not kid ourselves: the fights were half of what made rwby good. Without them... It's just not good, i'm sorry

[@Itamar536.]

so i watched this video back once it came out... i can't believe i only recently read the letter of the pillars of monty oum and now this video's significance is so much bigger

[@shineyluna1268]

Is that why the fight scenes in season 4 onwards are so hard to pay attention to? I find myself zoning out, and then I'm like uh oh I guess they won... Thinking about it I could pull up a dozen examples in volumes 1 through 3, where a character has to stop all of a sudden and they stumble, because it's hard to stop on a dime. They felt like they had weight. In volumes 4 through 6 I can't think of a single example of that, I think they just stopped when they need to... and I never thought about it before now.

[@SkywardAshe]

the part where cake said that ruby "teleports" is actually Ruby's Semblance, Ruby's Semblance is called speed she moves at speeds that are nearly too fast for the eye to catch

[@chaosXP3RT]

Glad to see I'm not the only one that had a problem with the post-monty fight scenes. Although, I liked the Vol. 5 trailer because of it's crisp new graphics and how well it shows what Weiss had to go through to get into Beacon. What I didn't like is that that Weiss is not the same Weiss in the White Trailer & in Vol. 1-3. From her fighting style to how her sword works (she pulls the Dust out of her sword with her finger, rather than unleashing it with the pull off a trigger) is all different (and wrong imo). People excused it by saying the Character Short takes place before the White Trailer so she's new and inexperienced and has a different fighting style but we all know that's not the truth. Despite all the criticism, I did like the Vol. 4 Qrow vs Tyrian fight, even if the fighting style is completely different and it has it's awkward moments. (Some examples: Tyrian let Qrow walk to his sword? It disrupted the flow of the fight! And it didn't make sense! Also, what was Tyrian doing with his tail against Ruby's sniping? Blocking bullets? How? Wouldn't that decrease his aura? Ruby's gun fires a big enough bullet (it's based in the Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle btw) that she can move with the recoil, yet Tyrian just blocks them like nothing?) Srry for the long comment. I enjoyed your video! And I agree with everything you said

[@CakeStation]

Thanks for the feedback, you should be pleased to know you caught me in the middle of making the next video, I hope it'll meet your expectations!

[@SieylahXMaple]

Technically, Tyrian's Aura did end up depleting completely once he fought Qrow. Right after Qrow's Aura faded away, Tyrian's as well in the smoke, it's a.. very hard to see detail.

[@dandanni1010]

“I’m and unusually soft creature with social anxiety and I’m here to lecture you on animation!” Dude, instant like with that sentence. You win.

[@lexmats8527]

I'm new fan to the RWBY series and just finished watching everything a couple of days ago. The massive downgrade of the action scenes made me question the animator's sanity. How the hell did they think that vol 4-5's animation was better than vol 1-3?! After a bit of research (yay google!), i noticed that the original animator Monty Oum passed away. God bless his soul. I know jack shit about animation, but even a layman like me could tell that vol 4-5 has lost the thing that made me love RWBY in the first place: well choreographed fast paced action. Story was never the focus of the series. It was always about the cool action scenes. As a fledgling writer myself, this sudden shift to drama and characterization was a very good way to alienate the fans of the original. In conclusion: vol 4-5 is BORING!

[@CakeStation]

Well spoken.

[@gracekim1998]

Lex Mats what? The animation has improved. Your favouritism is clouding your judgement 🤦‍♂️ it’s not boring: Volume 4 was character driven to let everyone breathe after Volume 3, Volume 5 builds up to the next attack which you need to continue watching btw to see!

[@gracekim1998]

How exactly was it always about the fights?🤨

[@lexmats8527]

Dude.... are you serious? Have you been watching RWBY at all? The animation has improved? Yes! Facial animations has improved a great deal! But that's it! I want you to compare Yang's best solo battle under Monty Oum's direction ('vol 2 episode 11) and all of Yang's fight scene after Monty's passing (vol 4 episode 9/vol 5 episode 4) Which of them had better choreography? Which of them had longer fight scenes? The winner would obviously be the Monty Oum fight scenes! The energy was fast, intense and beautiful! And your accusation of favoritism was hilarious. I didnt know (or care) about the animator's name prior to making my previous post! Everything after his time was boring. And I'll admit here, I am what you call a 'filthy casual' I entered the RWBY fandom BECAUSE of the fight scenes. RWBY became famous BECAUSE of the fight scenes. If RWBY started out as a show that centered around the characters and I liked it, then I wouldnt have it any other way. But the characters were never the appeal that brought me into RWBY. And as a 'filthy casual', my interest for the series dried up the moment Vol 4 started. Just to be clear: I Still Watch RWBY even until now. But my excitement for the series is almost nonexistent. I sometimes even forget that the new episode is being aired. That's how boring it is nowadays. This attitude is a very stark contrast with when I first found RWBY. Back in those days, i wanted to watch RWBY ASAP! *sigh*.... Vol 4-5 of RWBY is boring. The only reason i still watch it is the small hope that the animators would go back to Monty Oum's style of animation. I dont care if they cant copy it 100%, but they could at least try! Vol 4-5 showed extremely little effort in recapturing Vol 1-3's magic.

[@CakeStation]

I don't want to stop you two from talking but this conversation is getting a little worrisome, remember what you're talking about. There's no need to get flustered.

[@redsabre69]

You hit the nail on the head honestly. I had already figured the animation was going to take a hit with out Monty there to do it. If you ever watch anime, played fighting games, or enjoyed action movies etc etc. You can see where a lot of his inspiration came from. In Dead Fantasy where Tifa appears I can point out where she is using Kings ultimate from King of Fighters. Her kick combo. On the raft Tifa was suddenly Jackie Chan from Drunken Master. The list goes on. You can see alot of where his ideas originated, and were paying homage too. This new animation team though? I feel they should do the same. They need to go back, and play some fighting games. Watch action flicks, and some anime. A lot of great animators, and animation have amazing combat choreography. The trailers for Stars Wars Old Republic, Even Kung Fu Panda the battle with Kai was awesome. But yea I feel these new creators are missing the heart, and soul of telling a story through the characters motions. Heck even fight scenes form many of DC's animated series, and movies you can FEEL the hits, the power in each blow. RWBY not so much. That said I do still enjoy the series, love the characters, and want to see how the story ends but yea the combat isn't what's really drawing me to the show anymore.

[@TheSpore35]

Soooo true. Fanboys say the animations are better, but the reality is that NO WAY the new seasons are animated better than Monty. Sometimes I wonder how one man can be the night and day difference

[@LegendsForever206]

TheSpore35 They are dumbass hater

[@soularous8793]

Um...no. the animation is better. The choreography may be a bit lacking, but, that doesn't make it worse per se, just different. It's all a matter of perspective man.

[@V0ltage007]

Soularous While I agree the animation looks great, the fight scenes are a total mess. There’s an absurd amount of talking and characters just conveniently being on their own all of a sudden despite things happening in that very same place they’re in. Characters turning their backs against enemies who it’s already been made clear fight dirty but they’re never attacked (with a few exceptions relevant to the story). I did enjoy the battle between Raven and Cinder and thought it was much more well done, but the other battles were pretty lack luster over all, as the flow of the fights just weren’t there.

[@soularous8793]

V0ltage007 I thought Qrow versus Tyrian was amazing. Plus, you have to look at it from a slightly different angle, there weren't many duels. Everyone is whining about choreography, but I felt the choreography was out of place when fighting Grimm. I mean, monsters don't dance. So the fights won't flow as well. As for lack of fights, I honestly didn't mind that too much. I'm a writer, so I appreciate storytelling. And these past couple volumes did just that: storytelling. Monty has created an incredible story that hasn't ended yet. Just so that you understand, the story thus far was still Monty's. Check the credits: Monty's name is still in the 'story by' tab. Now, for fights being 'not smooth'...they lit a dog on fire with ZERO explanation on how he could do that. They had Grimm running right past characters before. And you're complaining about them having some dialogue in fights? C'mon man, pick your battles a bit better.

[@soularous8793]

V0ltage007 Just an added bit, I rewatched Volume 4 & 5 recently. I only partially see your point on the Haven Academy battle. But I think part of that was the villains being cocky about their advantage. Also, several of the other characters were tending to wounded/injured/downed, so they weren't participating in fights. But that's the only one that stands out to me. Look back to Yang vs Bandits. That was such a fun scene to watch! I've already mentioned Qrow vs Tyrian. The mansion battle in Menagerie was pretty neat too. My point is, nothing about the new seasons is objectively bad, just subjectively bad. Personally, I loved the new seasons as they put a greater emphasis on storytelling. I think it truly does boil down to opinion.

[@RobertPage562]

the true rwby died with Monty Oum saldy R.I.P Monty

[@kingarthurpendragon134]

Thank you, I genuinely feel like the animators of RWBY have no idea what Pacing is. They have really stupid trends that don't make sense for ANY fight scene, like stopping to talk for close to or over a minute to talk about nonsensical information for a fight scene, like the Arkos thing from volume 3. I just can't care as much as I used to because the main point of RWBY originally was the fight scenes. Story, Setting, Characters, each were set pieces for the bigger picture of setting up entertaining and well made fight scenes. Now we have, long 20 minute episodes with just exposition, after exposition. Going on, and on. Its boring.

[@KaitoRyuKayser]

i could not have said that any better. Although i did like the arkos thing, it felt weird but it adds some "personality" to the characters

[@fathanpratama6008]

Yeah but i think they still cant move on from Mounty Death :/

[@KaitoRyuKayser]

GlassTuber Studio's a few minutes after writing this, i read a comment that had a video in which rooster teeth said that even though they can reolicate montys style they wont do it. Which means they want to move on from montys style to something nore "holywood". To me, thats just a bad call

[@SynicalFox]

I want to see more Animations with the RWBY art style. With more they could find a way to improve the foot to ground look and walking movements. It is literally the one thing I notice that makes it stand out but hell the fluidity of fight scenes is fantastic with this CGI sort of style.

[@kingarthurpendragon134]

Honestly what made RWBY stand out was how stylized the characters choreography was, how each weapon had a special flare to it that made it stick out over the rest. Like when it comes to the fight between Team Rwby Sun, and Neptune vs Roman in the Mech. It is a 5-minute long fight scene that takes only a few seconds worth of breaks for an establishing shot to get you psyched up for the fight, everything else is well-calculated combat that has very amazing and awesome combos between the teammates that make them actually function as a team. Then a lot of these team combo moves where they work together are completely dropped in every other volume because they dont want to do it, their honestly lazy, its been 3 years since montys death and haven't even bothered to recruit or hire someone with Montys level of talent, even when they already have a member of Screwattack who wants to work on the show begging to be put in. The RT team are just stupid, plain and simple, and Monty was one of the few members who actually understood what people liked about the show.

[@volt8ges109]

I remember watching this a year ago and I couldn't agree more.

[@Malevolent_Q]

Yeah as season 5 came out I noticed its gone way downhill from the first two seasons the new characters don't seem to leave an imposing feeling they just stand there smug and say some smart lines

[@Noizemaze4]

Ahhhh HA ! I KNEW something was off when I saw that episode, thanks for bringing it up :D

[@danicamay9562]

I love it. FINALLY SOMEONE SAID THIS! RWBY has been so lackluster ever since Monty left the picture. :/

[@domsaunders5713]

He didn't "leave the picture." He died. You say it as if he had a say-so in the matter.

[@GawainW]

Unfortunately, nothing much can be done other than for Miles and Kerry to try the best they can to carry on Monty's work, and see it to completion. For something so ambitious, the creator is probably the most important person. And having a respected creator die before the project could even be halfway finished is probably the worst thing that could happen. It's a similar case of how the movie "A.I." got so mixed up, and why it couldn't meet the standards people held towards Stanley Kubrick's work. Steven Spielburg was still obligated to try what he could to finish what he and his late friend Kubrick started, even if the end result wasn't as desired. I can describe those two situations with one analogy; it's like making a map of an uncharted jungle, but then as your exploring, your guide got swallowed by a crocodile.

[@melchiordecitre]

volume 3 had great fighting too! but 4 was really bad....

[@soarel325]

Yeah, they followed Monty's rules when they choreographed V3's fights. Emerald and Coco, Pyrrha and Penny, Yang and Mercury (though this one was done by Monty, so I guess it doesn't count), Cinder and Amber, Neo and Ruby...

[@digichu007]

Melchior Decitre I think some of the volume 3 fight scenes were done by Monty before he passed away.

[@soarel325]

Only one of them, actually. Yang/Merc

[@digichu007]

Soarel Oh that definitely makes sense. It had similarities to that bullet move finisher from Dead Fantasy. That was one of the better fights of the whole season. The first 4 tournament fights were really bad though.

[@NektisNoir]

Soarel actually Monty worked on a bit of Penny and Pyrrha too. That was confirmed by the Director's Commentary on the Volume 3 Bluray.

[@MahHairChronicles]

Good video. I was just re-watching "Dead Fantasy" and this video popped up in my Recommends. We definitely miss Monty. His skill, his personality...it was a pleasure to have been drawn into his world.

[@thenewgamer64]

they switched to Maya, but they still use Motion Capture....a lot

[@Felgaldhinio]

Those 3 pillars of Monty's animation when animating fight scenes are the exact same pillars that made Jackie Chan's fighting and action famous, and if I'm honest Monty was on the same level of fight choreography as Jackie Chan, with the rhythm in every one of his fights making some of the most gorgeous art possible, just beautiful, RIP Monty Oum you absolute Animation GOD! If you want to know more what makes Monty and Jackie Chan great, suggest watching Every Frames a Painting video Essay called Jackie Chan - How to Do Action Comedy, covers why Jackie's fights were great and more.

[@MadBurnishMeg]

I personally think everything about RWBY got better at volume 3. Volume 4 is my favorite volume so far, and 5 just began but looks amazing as well. The style of everything has evolved and improved. Sure it has changed but, in a good way.

[@Explorerofshadows]

MegMarieGaming Finally another dan of the new animation.

[@StayFrostyX279]

So I'm glad that I'm not the only one to notice the change in animations.

[@andrewvasquez7565]

okay though i have never been an animator i have to say this what drives me to watch the show is the story line that's why i don't really care about the animation no offence to any animator. though i do agree that the animation changed drastically since the first few volumes i just have to say that I'm just happy i can still watch the show in general

[@zackrose6261]

I like you guys, because after all, people complain about the fight scenes dropping and not up to monty standards, they forget that monty wanted to create a STORY, which so many people don't understand what so ever. Cause if he just wanted to do fight scenes he could have easily just done shorts doing random fights. XD

[@Zana_Akabila]

My lord people understanding and accepting opinions?! WHAT WORLD IS THIS? But on a side note I have watched all the seasons so far, I find fight scenes did change, but if its season 1-3 animation or 4+ animation fights have something in there that I enjoy visually. I also very much agree with the Yang fight but still my fav fight in the newest seasons is Qrow fighting Tyrian.

[@zackrose6261]

cx I loved the qrow vs Tyrian fight to, but my favorite is the yang vs bandits.

[@Juniper___]

Zack Rose Monty didnt just want to make a story he wanted to make a great action show. Think of it like this: to make a PB&J sandwich you need BOTH peanut butter and jelly right? The same thing applies for monty. The show he invisioned had a great story AND amazing fight scenes which combined to make a great show. With lack luster fight scenes all you're left with is the story, which isnt bad but if you want a PB&J but only get peanut butter then your sandwich isnt really complete now is it? The same thing can be said about rwby. I respect your opinion but really the show just isnt as great as it used to be. Now its just drama crammed down our throats every 30 seconds which just isnt what I want in a show built around action. (P.s Yes I did just compare rwby to a sandwich. Bite me.)

[@zackrose6261]

:^) I don't care for jelly. XD but the problem is, a fight shouldn't just happen, it needs to be led up to. Which Rwby has been pretty well done. Look at One Piece, the fights are normally led up to them, without the context, the fights aren't much, but because of the story, the fights become amazing. Leading up to fights through the story. What Volume 5 Chapter 5 did is character development and lead up to a fight in blakes part of the story. But the thing is, Quite a few people just want the action. A fight that just happens does not have as much impact as a fight that is led up to. Impact is such an important thing for fights in a story. And a peanut butter sandwich is a complete sandwich. :3

[@AnarchyDefender]

Subscribing for the simple reason that your deadpan commentary is hilarious

[@galactose_fructosemonosacc343]

F's in chat for Monty oum

[@Hasmekiel]

Man, I'm glad someone else noticed this I've had several gripes about volumes 3 and 4 because it just felt off animation wise Good video!

[@NellieN60]

I personally like the new animation better than the last. My only issue with it in Vol.5 though, is that I feel like the fighting scenes (Especially with Weiss) aren't as fast and clean as they used to be. I feel like they move far too slow, and with Weiss, it seems like they're trying to make her dance too much than actually try and use her rapier like she did in earlier seasons. I miss her elegant and precise movements now she just looks like a ballerina swinging a sword around.

[@KevSB07]

That's probably because we haven't seen wiess in a hand-to-hand fight since The Battle of Beacon (or her Character Short if you're thinking real time) I'm sure your problems with it would be gone if she was fighting another person, but the reality is you can't do much when one entity is trapped in a cargo bay of a plane and another is flying behind.

[@SenseofNoneYT]

That's what he meant. The rhythm. The rule of cool. The poses. That's what the new ones need work on.

[@syzygy2464]

While I think your video is well made and you have some valid points, and clearly you're well educated on animation, I think what's going on is that they've made the choice to sacrifice some animation resources for other factors early on in volume 4, but if you really take the time, you'll see that they started to work the kinks out later in the volume. The fights have been fewer and more far between since Monty was gone, but if you take a look at the Cinder v Raven fight in volume 5, that felt pretty Monty to me. I think the guys are just so focused on story right now they'll letting some of the fun animations slip. I hope they'll realize that the "cool" factor that Monty brought to this show in droves, has been lacking a little, but I think on the other hand, asking anyone else to be Monty Oum is a pretty tall order. He had something he was a grandmaster at, animating fight scenes. They're doing it justice, it'll never quite be the same but nothing ever is when you lose someone so important.

[@pittayayas]

Volume 5 ep 4 was so good tho :#

[@jasonsnider3133]

Definitely. The camerawork showed the meatiness of the impacts.

[@soarel325]

They made this video before the episode, and I'm hoping they make a follow-up addressing the Yang prologue and V5E4 and how they seem to be going back to Monty's choreography.

[@bigbadbob7070]

H P there is one problem I have with that fight though. To be honest I might be a little bit nit-picky. What bugged me was at the start of the fight one of the bandits ran up to Yang and tried to punch her DESPITE having a gun with a bayonet on it. It’s a minor detail but made me raise an eyebrow regardless.

[@naturalvanilla1608]

You know, even though we aren’t gonna have Monty animating any RWBY fight scenes, he actually has a KZbin channel that he would usually upload too! That’s good!

[@Vampcinder]

Yeah I love M&K, but they are throwing away the elements that attracted people to RWBY in the first place. The only reason that a lot of people are still watching is because they love what the show used to be.

[@daanscatozza]

OMG SO TRUE!!!!!

[@jasonsnider3133]

By "used to be", that's... hard to say and not explain. Do you mean choreography or the show's character itself? The show was a lot more lighthearted in the first two volumes just because they had to deal with bullies and inner conflicts of acceptance and friendship rather than people literally trying to kill them and destroy the kingdoms. The show's technical side and dramatic story elements are very different things to use as barometers of what makes things used to be or now be better.

[@OzzyTheGiant]

I came for the fighting sequences, I stayed for the dramatic plot twists. Seriously, this show has gone full 'game of thrones'. I don't care how good the fight scenes are as long as they are decent

[@kaylondrew5990]

Isaac Self yea thats a lie and you know it lol people are staying cause they love the characters and the plot that has been set up you must not watch people like murderofbirds he would prove your statement wrong in the first couple of seconds in one of his videos

[@Vampcinder]

Oh look, I seem to still not have said "Everyone", rather "a lot of people". Note that I did not say "A majority", "millions", or "all of the goddamn fanbase", rather I said "a lot of people". This is a true statement. Citing one single person in the fandom is not enough to change that, no matter how much they cry. I have seen many people say that they are sticking with the show because of the potential it had before, and they hope that it one day returns to its former glory. So yeah, not a lie. Also you could have said "You're wrong" or "That's incorrect" instead of "That's a lie". I don't appreciate you calling me a liar. And for the record, no I don't watch murderofbirds because I personally think that he is highly annoying and doesn't deserve half of the attention and privileges that he has gotten in the community. And guess what? I'm allowed to have an opinion.

[@FRISHR]

My right ear enjoyed this more than Volume 4.

[@justawaterbottle4815]

*The weapons in RWBY are super creative for example* Scythe gun Raiper gun Fist gun Knife gun Hammer gun Cane gun Bo staff gun Spear gun Suitcase gun Leg gun Prosthetic arm gun Nunchuck guns Club gun Axe gun Sword gun Sword grappling hook gun Cleaver gun -HOW VERY CREATIVE-

[@victormatterstorm196]

next weapon The legendary gun gun

[@yaro8860]

It's not only the weapon itself, it's how the characters use that weapon in different and creative ways and the different styles they have to animate because of the weapon.

[@ocarinaplaya]

Final Fantasy had gun swords. Just saying.

[@jordanjohnson9995]

Every weapon in RWBY has a melee mode, and a ranged mode.

[@JZShade09]

Except Jaune's weapon

[@marksison2554]

dude it's like you are reading my mind... i am crying inside with the state of RWBY right now...

[@christiandaniels8498]

You have a point but I like rwby period even if monteys ......gone...no other shows gonna be like it ,and they changed it but that's fine rooster teeth actualy listens to the comunity not like call of duty. So the chances of haveing a better season is 50/50 at this point I mean would u rater have this or a nother discontinued series after the death of pyrra and penny

[@CakeStation]

I still really enjoy the show, I'm looking forward to see loose ends tied up. I just see what monty did as something really one of a kind, and the fact that Rooster Teeth moved away from that, instead of pursuing it just leaves me antsy and makes me want to do it myself.

[@christiandaniels8498]

Cake :0 u responded I'm subbing,NOTICE ME SENPAI

[@laxjoh]

RWBY animation quality, story quality, character development, writing, etc etc all improved. But you're right something changed since Monty passed. Monty Oum originally talked about camera pan style and perspective from eastern martial arts film vs western films; saying western films were significantly worse to view choreographed fighting scenes because western style camera LOVED changing cameras in between shots; so in ONE punch, you'd literally see like 1-3 different camera angles. Monty claimed this took the "oomph" out of the punches or kicks or hits that would land. Watch his Dead Fantasy video and Haloid. He tries hard to make sure when they are doing some combo fighting move, they can finish it in one frame without changing angles to deliver the full impact. After Monty passed, they immediately moved to the western style change angles every 2 seconds. But the animation team made it work and it was impressive and still good. But as mentioned, it's just not the same. Animation quality would have improved regardless if Monty was here or not. But the fighting combat scenes are just lacking in comparison. However Montyw ould be proud how far RWBY has come.

[@soarel325]

>story quality has improved Wew lad. Not with those damn macguffins railroading the plot.

[@laxjoh]

+Soarel you do realize a lot of the plot was already made up by Monty so a lot of the character plot they're doing this season was already brainstormed with Monty as the head. The difference in quality comes from quality of writing and quality of voice actors dramatically improving since season 1-2. I've been following Monty's work for a long time. Monty's a genius when it comes to choreographed work but when it comes to developing plotline, he's shown nothing but rather generic/boring quality plot. This has gradually been getting better as the show progressed and it's not because Monty is no longer with the project. The RWBY project simply grew to be a much bigger entity than they had anticipated and they hired professional help to improve quality where they can. However as the quality for plot improved and became more fleshed out, quality for choreographed fighting decreased. Because they aren't adhering to Monty's belief about camera angles and panning during combat moves. Western camera loves switching camera angles and Monty was adamantly against that for martial arts filming. Even if Monty was still alive, plot would probably have reached to where we are. Just the animation for choreographed fighting would be drastically different.

[@soarel325]

V1-3 had a much better plot, though. Also, they started retconning things starting in V3 but really went in on it in V4. Monty would have kept things much more cohesive.

[@laxjoh]

+Soarel The first 3 volumes had very limited character development and story arc. All the plot in the beginning were as generic as it got. People watched to be awed by Monty's choreographed scenes but many felt the story lacking. Writing improved tremendously and they began to seriously fill the void of lacking background story and building up the environment of this universe. This literally didn't start until volume 4. I mean even with Monty alive, this would have happened regardless. Monty's a genius animator but he's not an amazing writer as I said. He's produced cool choreographed things but when it comes to plot and story telling, it's as generic as they come. They hired outside help to improve overall quality of writing as well as voice acting and it visibly shows. There's genuine emotional growth, obstacles and character development where the story is shown, not told. And mentioned before, choreographed combat scenes carried earlier season and gravitated fans towards RWBY. I still love earlier season but the quality in writing is so much better now. I mean regarding the overall plot line, we're still adhering to the RWBY Monty wanted and envisioned; it's just the style of the way fighting scenes are animated are completely against what Monty wanted which is panning camera angles.

[@soarel325]

Limited character development and story? Were you even paying attention? Did you miss the whole "clash between a secret government and a rebel group" storyline? The storyline didn't improve when they started retconning established lore (Grimm only attacking humans, Ozpin having ascended via aura mastery, "mankind born from dust", etc.) not to mention the fact they introduced stupid macguffins which were never mentioned before despite supposedly being an important part of the main antagonists' plans the whole time and ended up railroading the plot into a straight line of hunting them.

[@jeffgallardo3242]

I just found your channel and THANK YOU LIKE JESUS IM TRYING TO BE AN ANIMATOR AND YOUR RELLY HELPING MAN

[@CakeStation]

That's awesome! Don't stop you'll be great!

[@aserta]

IF ONLY, the whole situation was tied only to Monty's unfortunate passing. Then i could accept it and move on. But in reality, there's a whole mole hill of issues and troubles regarding the production team, RT themselves and their fast growth (which is never good, i could give examples, but everyone and their mother should know that regardless of where you look, fast growth leaves you with a shaky structure that has not much worth or strength) under GoogTube's "independent" FullScreen, etc. But no. There's more. A lot more, of which only snippets made it to public eye and out of which few were able to discern past personal anger and reality. Meh. Not really worth the effort, RWBY's apex is behind us, and there's nothing that can be done about it. RT does not want another Monty, that much is crystal clear in both attitude, and actions, written, verbal, or visible. All we can hope is that some people will catch Monty's RWBY and be influenced enough to push forward in their careers, good animation is a dying art because animators exist in a lull period between hand drawn animation and computerized animation. Regardless of what anyone thinks on their own, it takes a good group of eyes to admit that. Exceptions exist, of course, but they are a minority, which proves the rule. In short, RWBY mostly died out because of arrogance. RT's arrogance. They did things, yes, they made something from nothing, yes, but they lost their soul. A thing evident across the board as the butter is stretched ever so thinner on a stale piece of bread.

[@aserta]

Addendum, those that have been around RT from the days of in house packaging and drunk tank podcasts know what i am talking about. Anyone that ran in this train mid way, or even more recently, sorry, you can't grasp the incredible experience that RT used to be, what it used to mean. There's still brilliance left, but it's nowhere near the Beacon that it once was.

[@thestrahl8420]

No matter if the shows gone bad or whatsoever, I'll still watch it to the very end since this is Monty's legacy ya know.

[@CakeStation]

Same. I still want to see it succeed, I hope the show (animation wise) is just having a rough patch.

[@thestrahl8420]

Yea, it must've been hard for them to handle everything since they've lost the creative mind behind the show.

[@gracekim1998]

Um they’re doing their best without him (I’m glad you used constructive criticism in this though)

[@arceptor]

are you triggered?

[@zackrose6261]

@Death Rattle Criticize* :3 Hate and Criticism are two completely different things.

[@arceptor]

but it is true, the show got worse with the action combat. i used to be excited to watch, now it's boring exposition and dialogue.

[@trumoocheese4851]

Zack Rose (Actually, critcise is the accepted spelling in the UK)*** It's a good thing this video falls firmly in the latter category then! :3

[@laxjoh]

Well they would have done their best still with him. The fact that RWBY grew to be what it is isn't BECAUSE Monty is gone. That's just coincidental.

[@DrMDHyde]

Monty saw animation like no else, he was brilliant. The Rooster teeth crew just can't replicate that.

[@SilentG07]

I really enjoyed this video. As It resonates with some of my own thoughts on what see in RWBY volumes 1-3 and volumes 4 and 5. However, nowadays any opinion or any valid constructive criticism triggers the cancerous ever expanding tumor known as the RWBY fanbase. "It's not about flashy fight scenes it's about character development and muh feelingz", they say. Cleary these snowflakes aren't familiar with Monty's past work such as Haloid and Dead Fantasy. Not to mention V4 and V5 is mostly build up after build up without showing much of anything interesting. So much for "character development". To be blunt, when Monty passed away (rest his soul) a unique part of RWBY faded away with him. That and certain "drama events" between former RT/CRWBY colleagues.

[@hannahlee6]

this video reminds me of this one video by someone else that i cant find anymore for the life of me, but it was also detailing how big of an impact montys death had on rwbys animation, and it included this rly powerful clip of the sunxroman fight scene in the episode black and white (i think) which had the original music the fight was choreographed to; once i saw and heard it i just became hyper aware of all the critical artistic and stylistic details put into the animation, how every frame and motion was so beautifully done, etc etc... and then there was a comparison of sun fighting in a more current episode and the difference almost made me cry 😭 like why are his nunchucks just a circular blur now??

[@AMason747]

Honestly, RWBY V1-3 were the best volumes. I stopped watching after V3. I simply lost interest and the new Post V4 RWBY episodes just aren't the same.

[@soarel325]

Same

[@TheLammas]

You piqued my interest. If you "stopped watching after V3", how can you know the post V4 episodes just aren't the same? And I do agree, my top 3 volumes were 1-3 as well.

[@soarel325]

I think he means that he stopped keeping up with the show after looking at what V4 had.

[@cooltoonist]

I love your thoughtful analysis. It still hurts to lose such an amazing talent. I know it sounds selfish but I'm looking for someone to continue Monty's animation aesthetic, and I see hope in your videos.

[@awesomepsume]

to be clear, everything you said he strikes it on the nose with ease, and anyone who disagrees with you, is delusional or confused. Everything about Monty's fight chorography was far above the majority of fight choreography. Genuinely there has been no animator since or before Monty besides top class animators than understood simultaneously, weight, rhythm, meaning, pose, character, camera, poetry, and coolness as well as Monty did. The purpose of a right hook has to take all of these factors into account, and as it stands the majority of animators are simply artist that make their paintings move left and right for comedic effect or professionals who simply do it for money or are limited by their source material and studio style. Monty was literally the closest to being able to make the dream of cool fight animation at a mainstream level since he WAS the animation department, and the story was his to make, with a team of genuinely well funded and capable start ups. When this goes underappreciated it deeply peeves me, so as to my original purpose, you are absolutely right, and to the rest I say, open your eyes and see the stokes of genius and luck that had to be made in succession to give us what season 1 and 2 did, and then realize that we probably wont see it again in our lifetime.

[@vianmeor]

Kudos to you for this, man. Thanks for the vid - you have my like.

[@soarel325]

Thank you for this! V4's fights have been absolute garbage, INTENTIONALLY SO, and from what we've seen (weiss prologue) and what the people behind it have said, V5 is going to be garbage too.

[@CakeStation]

Intentionally? Did the animators actually say something about it at some point? I'd very much like to know if they did.

[@soarel325]

Yup! I linked it on one of your other videos, but here you go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIjQdKqoeqytia8m28s RT sans Monty is perfectly able to recreate his style of choreography, the style that RWBY was literally based around and was the main selling point of the series. But as we heard from Kerry at the panel, they are conciously choosing not to in an effort to make the fights “cinematic”. This is a very, very bad decision. RWBY was built from the ground up to deliver Monty’s incredible choreography, and even though we lost him, there are talented people at RT who are able to live up to his legacy. Unfortunately, M&K have very different intentions for the series’ main selling point and are more interested in turning fights into character drama scenes instead of continuing to do what made RWBY successful in the first place.

[@soarel325]

My comment might have been accidentally marked as spam...I copy-pasted it over from a writeup I have about V4's fights. Did you see it?

[@CakeStation]

Yeah I saw it, thanks!

[@soarel325]

Any thoughts?

[@iain2by4]

This video is 6 years old and still applies

[@heyitshelios]

You literally complained about Ruby using her gun (which has always been apart of her scythe) and her using her semblance.

[@CakeStation]

Thanks for commenting! My point was just that when you give a character such a direct mode of attack like a gun, ideas get lazy and then the character doesn't do much more than shoot from afar. My problem with her semblance was that it didn't really feel like speed anymore, she just turns into a ball and flies around without even a running start. So really my problem wasn't with what she was doing but how it was being handled creatively. I hope I didn't actually upset you. Thanks for contributing to the conversation!

[@heyitshelios]

Cake Maybe she just changes the style of how she fights? I mean, fighting styles change for a lot of characters in due time. And I think the ball just symbolizes it, it gives it more of a more mature look. I love the original volumes, but the animation was always sorta weird to me, the emotions weren't really projected, and many of the arm movements really felt off. I'm not upset, I'm just saying, there are improvements if you look into it more.

[@domsaunders5713]

Your entire complaint referred to literally one episode where she used the gun primarily, when later fights in that Volume and the next has her using whichever mode she needs at present, the way she already had been using it to start. And there's also the impracticality of being overly reliant on an unwieldy weapon in the first place. We've seen her struggle in combat because of enemies taking advantage of her scythe's wide attacks, overcoming her and putting pressure on her otherwise.

[@heyitshelios]

Cake I love that you favorited my comment, but you aren't even taking the time read the replies by Me and other people who see the good in the animation style. Hey, remember when Ruby had cross eyes in the most serious moment in her life? Remember the SHADOW PEOPLE! But hey were not here to talk about animation, we're only here to talk about animation.

[@jasonsnider3133]

They still use motion capture plenty if we're looking at Maya, and they also showed keyframing in Volume 2 production diaries. A lot of what I'm about to say comes from a recent video from Rooster Teeth, RWBY Rewind: Making the Fights Tight, which you can find here: roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-rewind-1-4-erh56 Granted, if you're not a first member, you can't watch it anyway (because Rooster Teeth is a business that incentivizes subscriptions, who knew). Austin Hardwicke goes in depth on how he animates a fight sequence, and it touches on a lot of what you put into this, specifically with the fight scene he animated in Volume 5 Episode 4: Lighting the Fire Poses: The animation definitely slows down at key points to show Yang kicking while she's upside-down and other points to guide the audience on how she grew from what Tai taught her in Volume 4. Concerning the one of Nora you used in this video, it may not be appealing, but that's the darn point. It shows how not feminine she is despite her outfit, which is still an outfit that fits her personality. That pose showed how complex she is as a character and that femininity doesn't stop at wearing a skirt and conforming to what looks good in it. Character: The V5 Ep4 fight was very different for Yang, but it still felt like she was fighting. She incorporated kicks and was more dynamic than we'd seen her before (not preferring her fists quite as much as the past) because this fight was to show her growth as a character (again as I stated in Poses). At the same time, she uses her arms well and puts opponents into unfavorable positions before finishing them. Perhaps your character problem wasn't doing well because the only people who fought together were Blake with Sun and Team RNJR with each other and Qrow. Since Team RWBY has been split for one and a half volumes, we haven't gotten to see many characters work well together. Also, what the heck is Ruby's scythe going to do against the rock monster if she can't get close enough to use it against it? She has to shoot because even with her speed, it doesn't cut through giant, thick rock like it cuts butter. That doesn't mean in this one episode she was written poorly and the writers somehow forgot she had a scythe. Rhythm: For the most part, it was set to music and felt rather fluid. The fluidity also got some help from the camera aspect of it, which you didn't touch on. Austin said camera angles and movement are inseparable from fight choreography, which is exactly what Monty did. You touched that Monty was a great dancer, and in the original concept animation you used that leant well into the Volume 1 finale choreography, Monty said how he wanted to merge perceptions of dancing and fighting. Austin echoed this and said you get the most out of a motion when it uses cameras well, and that's what the fight scene did. Rule of Cool: Yang shoots herself toward a guy, punches the ground and transitions into flipping over him while doing many spins/rotations in the air before landing on his other side perfectly and punching him clean into another person with every body part hitting the other guy's same body part. Did it make sense? No. Am I willing to forgo that because of how clean and awesome it looked, especially with parts slowed down to poses? Absolutely.

[@nathaniellee5277]

To be fair, you have a lot of good points. But honestly, Ruby's fighting style is pretty flawed. Using her gun isn't a problem. Not to mention, the animation style is pretty good. Everything in Volume 1 looked unrealistic and sometimes the animation made me cringe. Finally, did you really think everything would be the same? Monty died, so of course, RWBY would change. Now, I love Monty's style, and I prefer his fight scenes. But things change.

[@silviogrijalva8801]

Nathaniel Lee the rule of cool is what i live by boi!

[@boshwa20]

One thing I noticed about the early animation was that the full on run animation was the same for almost every character. Not to mention that some scenes just didn't seem right. Watch the fight with giant bird and scorpion and pay attention to the characters when they're heading to the pillars to hide behind.

[@ocarinaplaya]

Normal scene animation and fight animation were night and day. The meat mitten hands with unbendable fingers and stiff body language during plot scenes were likely supervised by Monty and handled by an inexperienced animation team, whereas Monty himself likely did most of the fight animations.

[@hagahong3327]

"Monty died, so of course, RWBY would change." Tbh, there are people out there who could replicate what Monty did. Maybe the animation team could have learned some more from studying past fight montage done by Monty, which they clearly didn't. Or RT could use some new animators.

[@zackrose6261]

XD What people don't understand is that they just can't simply get these amazing animators, the animators have to apply to be hired. You know, job stuff.

[@dragongrandmaster]

i realy could notice the change after mounty oum passed away

[@flytrapkid1127]

vol 5 redeemed itself tho.

[@jasonsnider3133]

Definitely, I feel like the camerawork shows the action much better, especially with some shots showing multiple strikes on multiple people before cutting away.

[@flytrapkid1127]

exactly.

[@soarel325]

Choreography wise? Yep! Story still sucks ever since V4 screwed up what V1-3 had going, but it seems they're recovering Monty's choreography style. Good on them, and here's to RWBY being great again!

[@flytrapkid1127]

True. Fingers crossed.

[@soarel325]

Same here

[@leahsdreams]

Finally I can make sense of these problems. I knew something was fundamentally wrong.

[@thealliedpowers]

I honest to god cannot tell if this a boy or a girl.

[@jumanjicostco3248]

Oh! I also want to poimt out how the action/fight scenes of Volumes 1 & 2 used to frame out characters who were not doing anything.. You can see this used a heck ton in the food fight of Volume 2, where characters are never shown waiting for their turn, instead, they either jump or run into the camera's view when when the scene calls for it. Keeping the momentum of the shots consistent. As opposed to the first fight scene of Volume 3's tournament, watch and compare it to the food fight, which is essentially a team v team scenario. Volume 4 also had character model issues... Something I'd like to call the Justice League syndrome, where everyone seems to have the same wide shoulder'd torso.. I don't want to get into it, but just stare at Ironwood's arms in Vol 4 and you'll see what I mean.

[@leikfroakies]

Yes the animation suffered however it was still interesting because of the story. The fight against the Nucleave was the best fight in the series not because of the animation, but because of everything around the fight. Good fight correography is the cherry on top of the narrative cake. Good story excuses bad fight correography, bad story ruins good fight correography.

[@soarel325]

The problem is that RWBY as a show was built around delivering Monty's fight choreography. If it fails to do that, it has failed on its primary goal as a series. Also the story has gone from super interesting and character driven to being formulaic crap in less than a single season thanks to the introduction of macguffins to railroad the plot and awful, unnecessary new antagonists replacing the good old ones.

[@soarel325]

The formulaic part is the stupid god-rocks that they introduced to railroad the plot in V4. It's just "WE GOTTA GET THE MAGIC ROCKS BEFORE THE BADDIES DO". Also, you include Mercury and Emerald in your list of antagonists you like. You realize the introduction of the new antagonists out of nowhere basically means they have no role in the plot anymore, right? You didn't even mention Cinder. That "school life crap" was character-focused storytelling as opposed to macguffin-driven. A small-scale story that is focused on characters is far superior to a huge "epic" story focused on chasing stupid rocks in a railroad straight line. How exactly is Salem interesting? She is basically a carbon copy of Cinder, but worse in every way. I DESPISE this trend of them replacing the original, amazing antagonists with worse characters. Cinder's a normal human who through cleverness and determination became an almighty demigod with the power to challenge Ozpin himself. Salem? Well, we don't have a backstory, but judging from descriptions in the concept art of her base and the fact she has a pre-war name, she's some sort of ancient demon lord type. The entire concept of her character is so lazy, that every single edgelord fanfic had already done it before V2 had even aired! "Humanoid Grimm that has the power to control them" is the least interesting option they could think of. I expected her to be some sort of "I'm gonna kill everyone because I'm EEEEEVIL" type, but nope, we just got Cinder's motivations all over again (as elaborated on in Sacrifice and Divide) but on a worse character.

[@soarel325]

>Cinder however, just struck me as a typical saturday morning cartoon villain with no motivation other than "I want to be powerful." Did you even read what I wrote? She has the same exact motivations that Salem does. The reason she's better is because she's a normal human who rose up from nothing rather than an "epic" ancient demon or whatever. Please read my Cinder 101 writeup if you somehow lack the reading comprehension to discern her goals: pastebin.com/suNZXzxP >If anything, Neo contributed nothing NEO GOT THE VIRUS ONTO THE FLAGSHIP! She is responsible for Atlas being framed for the attack, which was half the point to defame Ozpin's cabal and turn the public against Atlas. She was vital. Emerald and Mercury are great antagonists, and they did a ton in V2 and V3, but the plot has discarded them in favor of these new memelords. >So unless you find the Canterbury Tales more interesting than Beowulf, you are a hypocrite. Joke's on you! I actually do find the Canterbury Tales far, far more interesting than Beowulf. The issue with V4 onwards' plot is that it focuses on being "epic" and following a very predictable formula rather than focusing on the characters and their struggles.