KING OF THE FOILERS? - Is the Moth still top? Who can take the crown?

Double Olympic Medallist Saskia Clark takes a look around at the RYA Dinghy Show to find out if there's a foiling boat that can beat the popularity of the Moth. She checks out the Waszp, F101, Skeeta, UFO and the Flying Mantis.
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#sailing #foiling #moth #epic

[@hannorasmusholtiegel6044]

i am in love with the ufo ,I sailed 470 for three years now,sailed moth once and since then wish for a foiler.

[@BOT-qg4lq]

I sailed ufo from mars to pluto to unicorn

[@grantbratrud4949]

Very interesting, thank you RYA and Saskia Clark, MBE! In sail racing the progress has been in my lifetime from displacement, to planing, to foiling. (I am having a private moment imagining what's next.). We all have our favorites in each category, purely personal and aesthetic, if you ask me, though doubtless backed by sound argument (if not valid, b/c I respect your views e'en when logic fails you, or vice versa). Displacement: Cutty Sark. "Where's there a Willis away." You Willis relations... show mercy, but if they don't accept, you know what to do, as always. Close second: Major Harold William "Bill" Tilman, CBE, DSO, MC and Bar, and his distant shore adventures mounted from aboard his Bristol Channel pilot cutters. That design was e'en moreso, if possible, the result of the free market upon yacht design. Those pilot cutters had to stay out and be speedy. Small crew. Planing: Frank and Margaret Dye's "Wanderer" a Wayfarer one-design by Ian Proctor from 1957. No question. Foiling: Holy Jesus Christ, Son of God! May God have mercy on all of us, poor sinners! So many winners! To name but a few... "Fairey Fox", sailed by HRH The Duke of Edinburgh in 1956, James Grogono's "Icarus", a standard Tornado-class catamaran retrofitted with hydrofoils, as a development beast, and later wavering between "L'Hydroptère", a trimaran vessel with reasonable crew accommodation, and "Vestas Sailrocket 2", purpose built proa. Materials science plus supercomputing (in the absence of the "sure feel" of an artist with real good feel in fluid dynamics , as before, in, for example, the Viking Era, when materials science, a real feel for the water, a warrior spirit, solid and trustworthy wives,, unlush agriculture at home that might not support a family of 12 or 15 kids ('cuz we R horny!), loosed that wandering spirit we have to raid islands for what they had. Even the continent, as in Normandy, and the rivers into the Baltic. (Can you say "Black Sea"? I think you can. "İstanbulda?" As the USMC says, "From the sea!"

[@spacecowboy07723]

Rigid wings is next 😂

[@pamagee2011]

Except for the UFO these boats are crazy expensive.

[@BOT-qg4lq]

and the one that isn't is called UFO!!! There you go champ.

[@rawvisions7592]

not the waszp only 1 grand higher i belive

[@funtosail]

UFO is way more easy to learn on as it's stable when not foiling versus the wazp laying on it side when not foiling. Wazp is not super expensive.

[@ollyc7023]

Gp f50 is a one design foiling boat and it’s slightly bigger

[@philipniles6068]

Pretty sure wing foil fleets are bigger clases

[@JakeBullit123]

Eleven grand affordable?

[@maansgustafsson]

Sailing is getting more pricey. As a reference, a new laser is about 7k gbp in Sweden.

[@funtosail]

There is still a large fleet of Hobie 16's. The worlds were last November with over 300 teams. You can get a used H16 way cheap. Not all sailboats are expensive. Foiling has many down sides that none of them tell you such as light wind sailing sucks (when hull or hulls is in the water); getting weeds off the foils; Have to hike out a lot so need strong abbs and back muscles; Crashes at top speed can hurt; high maintenance costs (hit a foil on something while at high speeds); etc. So there are advantages to non foilers and foilers. Need to weigh them and cost, etc.

[@dpie4859]

Too much music

[@eudespontesmagalhaesjunior3807]

I think Saskia could have asked for the price of each boat, ready to sail. Saskia could also have asked if the boats sail in all positions, especially at the stern.

[@Mvrck44]

UFO wins hands down for my use-case :)

[@AngusMcIntyre]

Shocking that the salesmen reckon their boat is great at everything...

[@billgiles3261]

He is a salesman, what do you expect? You cannot expect him to say “it is great in these aspects but it is actually crap at this ...”

[@rainthefemboi]

I love that the Australian-New Zealand moth has been made foiling!

[@manjichromagnon5480]

Don't be gay tho

[@moaerdo1357]

The waszp and the moth are made by the same person

[@opalias]

I'm trying to decide on a foiling boat. I'm new to foiling but not sailing. I think I'm stuck between the UFO and the Waszp. The Waszp seems like it is easier to tune while on the water, and seems more capable of foiling tack and gybes. The UFO seems more stable, easier to learn, much easier to launch, sails well in a displacement mode, but can't heel as much as a waszp before one of the hulls contacts the water. My biggest concern is that I want to eventually be able to foil tack and gybe eventually, even if that means I swim a lot more early on. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[@skyak4493]

Ride height is adjustable. The UFO tacks and gybes fine -no significant difference. The Waszp is also a legal moth, for more race opportunities.

[@funtosail]

Yep the UFO is a more stable platform. Still the Wasp is fun also. I owned the UFO . I liked it. Sailed one in Rhode Island and then bought one. I sold it because like the Wasp they are just not fun to sail in areas where the wind is on and off a lot. Two of my friends bought UFO's and sold theirs, and I should add no way they would have bought a Wasp, both of them are in their 60's. Yes the UFO sails ok when the hulls are in the water but still not that great, however is much better than the Wasp. When buying either of these boats one must understand they are for foiling not for in-the-water sailing (hull(s) in the water). I am going to sail a Wasp soon so I can have a good comparison. However from videos and people I have talked to you must have good wind to sail or the boat is sitting on its side in the water, your going no where. I went back to my Hobie 16 and Island. I am more about fun than showing off or high end racing.

[@philipniles6068]

Wing foil.

[@antiussentiment]

Seriously people!! US$ 14000 is not affordable. These one design/corporate boats are killing sailing. If one design boats were all anyone sailed, my local sail maker and chandler would be out of a job. The licensed sails and gear on these things are basically twice as expensive as they should be. Ask a laser sailor how he feels about the price of a new sail, that is worth about 1/3rd of what it costs? I did a quick google and came up with 3, very tidy 2nd hand moths for under US$ 5500 here in Australia. A way better prospect for a sailor starting out in the world of foiling. Come on RYA, push real boats relevant to normal people that keep the sport of sailing healthy

[@skyak4493]

UFO is $7930 That's not much more than any new race dingy, less than many. $5500 for used moth is big depreciation typical of development class obsolete boats. In 5 years the one designs will still hold most of their value and remain competitive. If you just like flashy carbon has-been boats, get an old moth and enjoy.

[@fabmanly1070]

Far rather have a UFO than one of those hideous Moths.

[@RYA1875]

NEW - Filming on the water - Moth Sailor Ross Harvey checks out some of the kit to film yourself on the water kzbin.info/www/bejne/amSWo4uAmrh1jc0

[@jonathanlevine8497]

"King of the foilers"? Kiss my ass. (This message brought to you by TriFoiler #23)

[@pangtsr]

11 grand? Is he joking? Is that supposed to be cheap for a small sized sailer?

[@PhilbyFavourites]

The Moth is the toy for the wealthy 40 something Dads. They’ve been successful, they have a burning need to compete and their wife wants them out of the way. In all honesty the Laser (heresy I’ll call it by its proper name) is the best One Design and the old ones are spectacularly cheap. Don’t go chequebook sailing - eventually it takes all the fun out of it…..

[@rocketryvideos1309]

Good thing that loud music protected me from the annoying interview audio.

[@Ripstop_pilot]

£11k????? Affordable????? I'll stick to kite foiling on my home built foil and board.

[@fredbear6256]

I am looking for the next step up in excitement so foiling seems the way to go. I am in my 60's and recently sailed sailed a Weta for 3 seasons. Had fun. I am now looking at the UFO as the pricing is reasonable for a new boat delivered. I am also looking at transportability and cost of replacement parts. The other boats look great but I can't see the value in their pricing.

[@funtosail]

I owned a UFO and so did 2 of my friends all of which are over 60 (early to mid 60's. I think for a small foiler the UFO is likely the best one out there for cost and user friendly. But to be honest its best for light sailors. It one goes turtle it is a big pain to right for a light weight guy of about 150 lbs or so. If your bigger, when foiling and the wind turns off suddenly you will flip over to windward. The reality is if the foiler is small with just 2 foils they are going to not be very stable and a lot of work to fly. I tend to prefer foiling boats with 3 or four foils. Way more stable and fun to sail. However with a bigger foiler comes much more cost. Also if you get weeds on your foils and you can not raise them easily its a pain to clean off. Imagine if you have to clean them off consistently. So one has to look at the environment one is sailing in. Plus if the wind is on and off again, very gusty a foiler is a lot of work to keep on the foils. I think foilers with just 2 foils are best for areas with consistent wind, no weeds, and for sailors with strong abbs and backs. I am one who is strong but live in an area with shifty winds, etc. I just found they were not fun to sail in my area. I am all about fun. Foiler is just not good for my area unless it's a boat with three or better four foils and can sail well when the hulls are in the water such as my favorite the Whisper Cat. The Hobie TriFoiler was a freaking great boat. One just sat in the cockpit and would fly easily no matter the wind conditions. Down side was set up time and getting weeds off the foils.

[@robertrantane6867]

All that sailing... in one direction. I think there may have been one tack, but it was off screen, maybe?

[@mastpg]

Sure....the moth looks great, but sending a double backflip off Corbet's looks great as well. Some of us need training wheels. All boat builders need to go to UFO guy's school of interview-promotion.

[@АриэльРусалка-ж4у]

Спасибо) больше видео)))

[@clavapa1_old]

11000 does not sound affordable, there are good used moths cheaper than that around. Also, the ufo designer really knows his stuff

[@lachiehugh5782]

but an old moth isn't competitive. compared to a one design waszp where everyone is in the same boat

[@HughSheehy]

@@lachiehugh5782 Not if you're a bit heavier you're not. More than ~90kg and a Waszp's wings are underwater. Not the foil, the wings

[@Lee-70ish]

@@lachiehugh5782 have to say if you want really competitive racing these don't have the numbers Laser,Dart and and plenty of others are where the real competitive racing is IMO. But foilers look like good fun however i would never pay 11000 for one

[@jeffwindrim975]

Yeah so there’s lots of used cars on the market that are more affordable. If you want new buy new if you can afford new then buy used. As long as your happy with what you bought that’s all that matters

[@eastcoastsailingcenter7768]

So expensive ….

[@LWJCarroll]

I dont recall these being in the Jetsons tv show, but we do have them here in the 21st Century! 😮😅❤

[@AntonioLemos66]

🖖🏼😎

[@knottastu]

last one is best

[@bowlweevil4161]

what is the line dragging in the water?

[@christophemeletiou9078]

King of foiling is, and by a huge margin, kite foiling. Even recreational models will smoke any Moth/Wasp out there and price is divided by 3.

[@spoont9544]

Not everyone wants to kite

[@HughSheehy]

@@spoont9544 Not everyone can. And those that can't apparently whine about it.

[@christophemeletiou9078]

Understandable but that does not change the fact Moths are way behind kitefoils performance wise. If anything any iFLY15 or foiling Nacra should be King of boat foiling.

[@keithdyke6918]

What an irrelevant comment... They are two completly different sports and skill-sets. I've done both dispolines and can say foil Sailing is a much more difficult sport to master. Seems you need to swing your apendage at jet-ski riders as they have the same level of relevance to Foiling sailors.... Remember to stay in the harbour so you can be noticed from shore...

[@HughSheehy]

@@keithdyke6918 You're using too many pronouns. You may know what you mean...but I'm guessing lots of others don't. Who's "they"?

[@wmtarr886]

did anyone else spot the large bearded gentleman? @8:50 I hope he wasn't looking for a moth

[@simonrano8072]

foilers : taking Brits go around the bay, taking French go around the World

[@markthomasson5077]

Good...shame about the music

[@JohnCornellier]

music too loud

[@leotard2536]

I need a tiny boat. Something I can cruise with, so no foil or any fast stuff, and preferably some sort of storage. Any suggestions?

[@bmull81]

@Leonard W - Hi, been looking at that sort of boat for a while! The value leader seems to be the 12-foot extended variant of the very successful Puddle Duck Racer, or PDR designed by Shorty Routh - there are endless options, links here:- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puddle_Duck_Racer A derivative design by Mick Storer, the 'Oz Racer' has morphed successfully into the 12ft Oz Goose :- www.opengoose.com/ There are 'Explorer' cabin versions too! The 12ft boats are a much better proposition than the (very good) 8ft ones, imho. They still weigh less than a Laser, and have great stability as well as startling performance:- kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4CTc2imbM6HoKc

[@funtosail]

I have a ton of fun with my Hobie Wave or Hobie Island. Actually I spend more time on my Hobie Tandem Island with my son or wife. I go everywhere with mine, on tiny mountain lakes, to desert lakes, to the ocean. Just a great all around boat with ton of storage and best of all is the Fun Factor. I also sail my Super Sea Snark, through some gear in it and off I go. Weighs only 50 lbs and fun to sail. Or just find a nice litter boat on any used sales site, go see it. Shoot me an email and can give you my feedback as I know most boats.

[@lenturner2915]

I would look carefully at Michael Storer's Goat Island Skiff. Light weight, fast, good cruising capacity, fairly easy to build, affordable.

[@bmull81]

Some interesting info, thank you. But posing questions: "KING OF THE FOILERS? - Is the Moth still top? Who can take the crown?" . . . . . . . and then failing to answer them is known as "Click Baiting", and not what one would expect of the RYA.

[@pamagee2011]

Here's a question: Which boat is faster on a reach in a force 4 breeze? A foiler, or a properly sailed Tornado, or Hobie 16?

[@skyak4493]

These bi-foilers do from teens to mid 30 knots. Tornados couldn't reach 20.

[@funtosail]

Question is which sailor will survive at that strong of winds. Foiler likely crash and burn, just watch the videos. Very difficult to keep foiling in such winds. Sailed an H16 for years on the ocean and can say on a beam reach is hard to beat. Can't beat it in the surf. A super fun boat to sail. I also put adaptive wind seats on the Hobie 16 called Trapseats so those with various disAbilities can sail it. No way to do that on a foiler. Foilers have their place, mainly for speed but if you want versatility and low maintenance costs then in the-water-boats are best. Maybe someone can balance in the-water and foiling performance but so far not done. I would say the Whisper Cat, Phantom Cat, and Nacra 17 foiler have the best in the water performance but then comes the higher costs and maintenance. Some high performance racers love the foilers but I think likely the whole foiling thing is going hit its peak and then come down to earth and level out.

[@sheepstations2800]

@@funtosail What a load of rubbish. Force 4 is 11-16 knots of windspeed. The foilers (or any sailor really) is just getting warmed up at that windspeed. I'm guessing you've never sailed a foiling boat to make such generalisations.

[@funtosail]

Your guessing wrong. So what exactly are you in disagreement with. I have a ton of experience with foilers. My next foiler is the iFly15, seems this manufacture has made foiling even easier with their innovative foiling system.

[@funtimegames]

@@funtosail I don't think so because once you fly it's hard to just plane again. Foiling is really fun and many enjoy it. We sail keel boats for work but damnn it's nice to leave that noise behind.

[@zackworrell]

All of these are named after bugs. I'd call my foiling dinghy model the "Meteor". Cuz meteors are the fastest objects in space, and comets.

[@funtosail]

Great video. Wonder if there were other foiling cats there besides the UFO. Foiling has many down sides that none of them tell you such as light wind sailing sucks (when hull or hulls is/are in the water); getting weeds off the foils; Have to hike out a lot so need strong abbs and back muscles; Crashes at top speed can hurt; high maintenance costs (hit a foil on something while at high speeds); etc. So there are advantages to non foilers and foilers. Need to weigh them and cost, etc.

[@yd8104]

You should have a look at this one (but expensive, but so great, but expensive, lol) : kzbin.info/www/bejne/eGa6g5eIrseMiJo

[@Donalfa10]

Standard A-Class open division - hundreds all over the world - lots of good builders

[@funtosail]

@@Donalfa10 Have an old friend that got a foiling A Cat, he loved it but was just to physical to sail. He is having a lot of fun racing his Hobie Wave. Deal is and what we need to be open to people about is foiling is fun to fly above the water but it does have many disadvantages.

[@Donalfa10]

@@funtosail get an F18 as family boat and a foiler as toy. Pretty good combination to all conditions.

[@funtosail]

@@Donalfa10 Or a Corsair Pulse 600, freaking amazing family racer or Hobie Getaway that can actually carry a family, F18 not going to carry much of a family. We do have a lot of Hobie 16's our club, great fun boat, with little maintenance. Two other boats that are fun is the Hobie Wave (very large racing group and worlds #1 rental sailboat), or Hobie Mirage Tandem Island for versatility. Some of us are getting into board foiling with hand held sail, great way to foil at a very low cost.

[@pelageos]

Hi! What is the price each of them?

[@FulcrumSpeedworks]

UFO is $7930

[@pelageos]

@@FulcrumSpeedworks thank you! 🙂

[@DanielHJeffery]

Can someone tell me what the little bar is that hangs off the front and touches the water? I’ve seen it on some, and sometimes on each outrigger

[@DanielHJeffery]

Is it for stabilization?

[@RYA1875]

Hi Daniel, I think what you're talking about is called the 'wand'. Essentially, its job is to control the angle of lift on the main foil. It helps give the boat lift to get up and out of the water, and then once at speed it reduces the amount of lift so the boat stays flying. Hope this helps!

[@researchcapt]

The wand adjusts the angle of attack of the forward foil so the boat is more stable in the pitch dimension.

[@angels814ever]

SASKIA could be my future ex wife... just sayin'... xo xo =)

[@TomKirkman1]

King of the foilers? The Hobie TriFoiler of course. Nothing else has its speed and stability. It still holds the Class A world record.

[@jamesaron1967]

That went out of production long ago, no?

[@TomKirkman1]

@@jamesaron1967 In the early 2000s. About 200 were built. They remain the fastest sailboats on the water.

[@jamesaron1967]

@@TomKirkman1 Yes, and would love to have one. That design should be remanufactured with modern materials and building techniques.

[@HughSheehy]

Windfoil and kitefoil both cheaper and faster and will handle whatever weight range you want. Just require more skill..though windfoil is fairly straightforward. Not merely sitting there ;-)

[@spoont9544]

Are you trying to say that sailing is just sitting there?

[@HughSheehy]

@@spoont9544 I think it's quite clear what I'm saying.

[@spoont9544]

Hugh Sheehy not everyone wants to kite foil or wind foil

[@HughSheehy]

@@spoont9544 There's a song about that. "In a world full of people, only some want to kite Isn't that crazy, crazy." But, in any case, none of these boats are the King of the Foilers. They're all practically static targets to a kitefoil and the windsurfers are getting pretty fast too.

[@spoont9544]

Hugh Sheehy you’re right. But stop trying to force it down everyone’s throats. Some people find sailing more fun.