Ryzen 7000 V-Cache: How It Works In Windows

AMD's Ryzen 9 7950X3D features one CCD with V-cache and one CCD without - but how does Windows decide which application and game goes to which? In this video Gordon explains what's going on under the hood of these new CPUs, and shows off how you can control the behavior yourself using Xbox Game Bar and BIOS settings.
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#amd #ryzen #cpu
00:00 - Intro
00:17 - 3D V-Cache Explained
01:38 - Xbox Game Bar
03:35 - Cinebench Demo
06:12 - Default Game Demo
09:14 - BIOS Configuration
10:59 - Updated Game Demo
12:26 - Conclusion

[@maulcun]

More videos like this! This is much better than just looking at graphical tables.

[@nikonike163]

i dont understand this technology

[@RayanMADAO]

@@nikonike163 read more about how cpus work 🤗

[@807800]

Thank you, Gordon! That answer my question. AMD/Windows really should enable user to manually select CCD preference through game bar or something, rather than through the BIOS.

[@Planet2A]

I remember Gordon way back when PC World was a paper magazine back in the 90s, reading about Pentiums, Athlon, and Cyrix CPU and thinking wow amazing, now here we are with Ryzen 7950x3ds and 13900s, seeing where we came from to where we are has been amazing. On another note still think Amigas were the most underated computers ever but PC and apple won out

[@saricubra2867]

Intel is more well rounded (minus power usage at 100% load), AMD made the huge mistake of not doing their own Thread Director to streamline code execution across CCDs, it's like Zen 1 scheduling issues all over again.

[@Adrian-pp6qy]

We had quite a journey starting from windows 3.1 back in early 90's just to end up with the same shit looking non-working but more demanding operating system that won't even start without internet connection and a microsoft profile. Such good times we are living in.

[@tufpistol]

thank you for your time spent and explanation.

[@weeedley]

Amazing video an explanation! Thank you

[@tomtorpedo]

Enjoyable experiment! Thank you for sharing.

[@egaming2023]

well done loved the video learned something today, very rare on youtube these days.

[@daruekeller]

you can shift it from core to core in realtime by right clicking on the game process and changing the processor affinity. and IIRC if you can start the game with the start command, yo can make a special shortcut that'll set the affinity at startup. probably doable via powershell too, however you start a process with it. Not sure if there's a good way to do that with Steam games for example though. by setting affinity in the task manager, you can even set how many cores it can access. limit it to one or two if you want for example

[@kelownatechkid]

Love the HAF - great choice and fun rad lasso :)

[@threadripper979]

Very nice demo

[@borgirlol]

Excelent video, i wonder if you dont use windows gamebar at all, and got v cache on auto in BIOS, it should still run games on v cached cores right ?

[@joshua_1_9__]

Agreed on needing a simple tool that lets us choose whether to run v-cache side or standard side!

[@blkspade23]

I'm pretty sure the game bar function itself can be disable by taking windows out of game mode.

[@snakeam]

wouldnt Process Lasso be the program to do that?

[@RCTPAVUK]

Process lasso can manually set affinity per process. It also runs a service on the background that (if you chose to set the affinity to always) will make sure the processes like games are set to run on the CCD you want. Comes handy even on older 5950x. Stutter gone on games like far cry 6, bannerlord 2 etc...

[@tojogamer1733]

Wow what a great video, thank you my good sir

[@부카]

Thank you for the great video so does v cache cpu has more latency than non v cache cpu? or it does not matter

[@Taurickk]

How does the game bar functionality compare to just manually setting CPU affinities using the resource manager? Does 'parking' the cores mean that background software such as discord, OBS, or browser are run on the frequency cores while gaming, or do they use the cache cores and interfere with gaming performance?

[@TundeEszlari]

Sensational video. :)

[@itsdeonlol]

Great Gordon!

[@deuswulf6193]

What I want to know... is how it relates to RAM on the AM5 platform. Are the timings as important with the x3D cpus? I haven't seen anyone benchmark this yet.

[@zivzulander]

"Remember this is a game" - wait, does that make Gordon a pro gamer then 🤔

[@marcasswellbmd6922]

I just updated Windows 11 and My Game Bar just updated too thanks.. Even though I don't have that part and I am running a 5900X ..

[@msoltyspl]

Would a test such as tomb raider + 16 thread cinebench do scheduling properly ? The former on cache and the latter on frequency cores ? Pity you didn't do such test.

[@Tainted-Soul]

thank you Gordon Your the best

[@jarnhand266]

What many wonder is this; what happens when you also run OBS Studio for recording and streaming? Will it impact the FPS of the game?

[@chriskross1660]

ah fine, nice informations. Great viideo. I need the cache power for my VR gaming I think cause Iin VR you have some framedrops or peakes on the Frametime. I think with the x3D it will be much better .. I hope so. But people told me this VR gaming is much better with a 5800x3D so I think this new CPU will be awsome nice

[@berryvr7184]

So when you say it chooses the "die" ever the cache one or non high cache one, the game/ program will only run on the Cores from that side? or is it still running on all the cores but prioritising the work load on that one side? As if its just choosing one side to only do the workload then why not just get Process Lasso Pro and manually select the Cores you want to use for gaming? basically the same what your doing here but a more hands on approach.

[@zissupa]

amazing !

[@Helios.vfx.]

wonder how would it work running simulations in Houdini SideFX

[@flynephool3643]

What about heavily-threaded games which benefit over 8 cores? How's the performance when the 2 CCDs are wanting to be used by a game? Any assymetry glitching/performance issues in these circumstances? Can a game be set up to use both CCDs efficiently?

[@jannegrey593]

If a game naturally wants more than 16 threads, then this will start using other CCD. The penalties are the same as with 7950X - you pay in latency for transfer through infinity fabric. Glitching is rare (though in benchmarks there is sometimes, but in real games it almost doesn't happen) and you sometimes have odd micro-stuttering. But it's rare enough to not distract from the game.

[@lenbata]

Does it make a difference if you have the pc on performance mode or balanced mode?

[@pathas.gaming]

I believe utilities such as Process Lasso can 'steer' processes to certain cores or certain CCDs... Has anyone tested this on AMD 7000 X3D?

[@Savitarax]

well it is possible given process lasso can force it very well.

[@saricubra2867]

I never used process lasso on my i7-12700K on Windows 11. Scheduling is perfect for me, i would hate buying a chip like the 7000 X3D series, dealing with scheduling issues, leaving perfomance on the table and downloading software to fix stuff that the CPU should do automatically by itself.

[@Savitarax]

@@saricubra2867 bro you legit open gamebar and hit “remember this as a game” And it runs it on the v-cache. People are overblownig this so much. Oh also it works for non gaming apps as well.

[@saricubra2867]

@@Savitarax I don't have to do any of that stuff on my Big-Little i7. It just works.

[@nivea878]

@@saricubra2867 exact what i thought, thats why i have a 13600k is plenty fast

[@chicoriver8606]

I have to say it. That PC with duct tape holding down that gpu is very stylish and will help with the air flow.

[@LawrenceTimme]

Dat classical cooler master case tho

[@danchan5620]

thank you Mr Baldy for a clear concise video how it works. I read too much review text and english is hard. This video makes sense.

[@bidyo1365]

🤣

[@C_C-]

Gordon delivers

[@zivzulander]

That's why we call him "The POST-man" (Okay, I just made that up, but feel free to make it a thing 😛)

[@reallyjohnblack]

Can you run a game (game mode on), while at the same time running another application like 7zip, which is not configured as game? It would be interesting to see whether Windows would reactivate the parked cores of the second CCD for 7zip, while using the first CCD for the game. In that case, everything would be perfectly fine and just the XBOX game bar stuff needs to be replaced with a better solution. The core parking stuff might just be a power saving mode, while gaming? On the other hand... if 7zip also run on the first CCD together with the game, while the cores on the second CCD are mostly parked, now that would be a problem!

[@FakeGordonMahUng]

You know, I should have showed this but yes. There is concern that the 2nd die is "off" like in the original Threadripper. It is not. It is parked so all the threads are pushed to the stacked die. If you are you playing a game, running Chrome and Cinebench with 4 threads, it all "fits" mostly into the stacked die and most of it runs there. If you run game, Chrome with Webxprt 4 and then run cinebench with 16 threads, the 2nd die is fired up and running as you would expect it.

[@reallyjohnblack]

@@FakeGordonMahUng Thanks for clarification. So basically Windows tries to fit all running processes onto the stacked die when game mode is activated and only when it reaches its limits, it starts reactivating the cores on the second die? I was hoping that Windows would push the "games" (or any application set to run in stacked die) onto the stacked die, while the cores on the second die are used for all the rest, gaining maximum performance. I thought that the core parking might be some sort of power saving mode, only reactivating single cores when needed (like the active cores in your video). I hope AMD can tweak this behavior with future updates or at least give the users the choice between saving power (parking second die) or maximum performance (game on stacked die, rest on second die). They need a new application / interface anyway to define the preferences for each process without having to resort to Xbox Game Bar.

[@mikebruzzone9570]

good walk through. mb

[@CaveyMoth]

I wonder how older games run on the 3DV-Cache CCD vs non-3DV-Cache CCD. They would benefit mostly from frequency boosts instead of increased cache, right?

[@saricubra2867]

Single core perfomance: IPC + clockspeed. The 7950X3D outperformed the 13900K in single core perfomance, in theory it should be the best.

[@gozutheDJ]

@@saricubra2867 no it didnt you dont run 6000 memory on intel thats just fucking stupid 13900k should be running 7600 minimum

[@jjlw2378]

I always disable Xbox game bar. It tends to be a problematic program.

[@MetaPlay23]

The game bard does not give me the option to choose a game. Not sure why this is happening. I even have a newer game bar version too, the up to date chipset driver and BIOS update.

[@alitekken]

I have the same problem Did you solve it ?

[@MetaPlay23]

@@alitekken Make sure to disable performance energy saving mode on windows. Meaning set it to balanced energy saving mode. Otherwise the core parking feature will be disabled and the gamer bar won't work.

[@saricubra2867]

They should follow Alder Lake's footsteps and add something like Thread Director to streamline the scheduling. This reminds me of early Zen 1.

[@gorjy9610]

To redesign complete chip for few procent who will buy something like 7950x3D? Waste of money and resources. If stuff like stacked cash become standard on all CPUs then it will have sense. Before that you can forget.

[@larrydysondev]

windows 11 was written specifically for 12/13th gen. its the reason why amd has had to go thru hoops just to get any of their cpus to work correctly with windows 11. remember when win11 decreased perf on Ryzen when it first launched. now just to get x3d to work correctly you need a bios/chipset and gamebar updates all to sync together. wait until win12 comes out, this will be the same story again as it has been for a very long time already.

[@saricubra2867]

@@larrydysondev Then what's the point for a chip like the 7950X3D?

[@Kojiro3210]

I better see hwinfo with core utilization in various loads 🙃

[@CoreyKearney]

what if you don't have gamebar? how does this work on *nix systems?

[@reallyjohnblack]

Obviously it will need some kind of scheduler or ccd settings on process basis on these *nix systems. Possibly through some AMD driver or through some open source project by the community. Other than that, there would be only the option to change settings in BIOS.

[@Pyrocumulous]

So, wait, I don't need my outrage pony?!? But also, tell us more about the jank going on inside AND outside of that Cooler Master HAF....

[@Stonos22]

What if you wanted the game to run on all cores?

[@samuelschwager]

Depends on the game how many cores it can use.

[@romeucapelasa]

I suppose it doesn't limit it to 8 cores it just sets the order that it will use first

[@RayanMADAO]

And what game is gonna actually use 16+ threads...?

[@blkspade23]

@@RayanMADAO They do exist. Starcitizen is one that I've seen hit 60% utilization on a 5950X.

[@Savitarax]

THAT SIMPLE 1 CLICK SOLUTION NEEDS TO BE ON INTELS ECORES WTF

[@666Necropsy]

how does it work. its a complete mess. can you use those other 8 cores when gaming to do other tasks?

[@JayzBeerz]

7700X and 13600K are the best chips for gaming in 2023.

[@toddincabo]

👍

[@Kojiros7th]

So all in all its minor tinkering nothing to extensive. Im building a rig and I cannot decide between 78000X3D and and the 7950X3D

[@Spacefish007]

09:00: I would assume Core 0-15 are the primary threads on both dies and 16 through 31 are the HT threads.. So you are running on both Dies as the game is sufficiently parallelized to saturate 16 Threads (which is true for Tombraider as it´s a Vulkan title which uses defered rendering / heavy parallelization).

[@christofferjensen9872]

thats not true... the auto mode in bios, is the same as frequency and not driver.

[@Chris-vl7pd]

I am wondering if it would be possible to for the parked cores to instead be utilized exclusively for the ray tracing in games, as we have seen that the cpu is a very limiting factor

[@Armi1P]

Ray tracing happens on the GPU, not the CPU

[@BlueRice]

V cache for the win.

[@ramijabi98]

is that a freaking 75 FPS increase ???!?!?!?!?!? WOAH

[@__--JY-Moe--__]

👍🍿

[@BenjyHanz]

Real video title: Shaolin monk explains how ryzen 7000 V-Cache works.

[@Dnaliaht]

Any application that need 16 cores I have 2700x should i update ?

[@Dnaliaht]

@@pcworld I use to teach online - Voice recognition - many cam - VOV - Skype - Tons of tab in Firefox - Games only Guild wars 1 with multilaunch

[@Dnaliaht]

@@pcworld Thanks for the reply - Much appreciated = )

[@nitmare64]

I cant get 373 for shit! Max I can get is around 345+. Even steve from gamersnexus got 380+ fps in tomb raider. I have no idea what im doing wrong. UGH!

[@marcasswellbmd6922]

Everyone's favorite Game Cinabench LMAO..

[@chrisbullock6477]

I love it! Lower watts, far less heat and options to use the cores I want. Sounds like grown man options.

[@thegod7412]

The shirt ...

[@josephkelly4893]

All marketing from AMD, holding back the 7800x3d part, and selling overpriced half chiplet nerfed processors for big money. Intel for me I think

[@chrisbullock6477]

Love you Gordon, but I don't plan on running my new 7950X 3D build on a 1080p monitor. More like my 42inch LG C2

[@anth5189]

It would be incredibly stupid to lock a processor to a particular OS.

[@7beauties7]

I love Gordon Mah Ung. He's a God of computer knowledge.

[@youp1tralala]

Gordon for president!

[@extreme123dz]

I dont use Xbox trash game bar (i unstalled it) so the new 3DX is not for me then.

[@TheDarq0n]

kinda cool but still SO STUPID you have to use Win Gamebar to make it work. Gamebar is the first thing I disable with a fresh install lolol

[@kognak6640]

You don't have to use it at all. Only thing gamebar does it allows to tag edge case games the vcache optimization driver didn't detect. Personally I'd rather use Project Lasso for precise affinity control.

[@blkspade23]

Take yourself out of the equation. This is something that will just work for the masses of less knowledgeable people. You have been disabling game bar based on some previous experience that lend you to think its necessary. Most people roll with the defaults. I'm most likely going to be booted in to Linux most of the time, and just pin my Windows VM to the vcache CCD.

[@DJaquithFL]

My idea of "pretty well" doesn't include effectively disabling half of my CPU and effectively lobotomizing it as "Parked." A lot of people now use a single PC to stream where they have to have all the cores running. The gaming takes its cores and all the background tasks including OBS, chat, etc using the other cores.

[@Taurickk]

You can see during the first tomb raider bench, that the frequency cores are still active and not disabled. Background tasks will get pushed to this instead of cache cores, meaning browser activity, discord, OBS etc will run on the other cores

[@DJaquithFL]

@@Taurickk .. Show me a test where they're running a game and something like OBS or something on top of the game. Then I'll listen. Just because a core is on doesn't mean it's actually functionally working.

[@Freefallendless]

​@@DJaquithFL process lasso

[@josephkelly4893]

It just works…….. oh wait it doesn’t

[@cutcorners6005]

7800X3D or nothing. I dont want this on my PC, let alone pay through the nose for it.

[@JamesSmith-sw3nk]

Play games with your X3D cores! ..Mine Monero with your regular cpu cores!

[@nivea878]

thats stupid, rely on gamebar. i prefer Intels solution

[@fellipemelo9287]

Well....if I buy a cpu with 60 cores I just want all the 60 cores working. I dont want a "crippled" cpu. I have spoken.

[@SJkopa]

The 7950x3d is still a bottleneck like the Zen 3 CPU with graphics card load factor better than the 13900k when actually playing games. It's absurd and funny, but KZbin reviewers can't explain this phenomenon at all.🤣🤣🤣

[@SJkopa]

7950x 3d is garbage... GPU load% is 👎👎... 13900k is good Buy 13900k

[@MetroidRTX]

7950X3D is a scam

[@iLLicitNz78]

lmao so you buy a 16 core chip an run it at 8 cores, Welldone amd