S3 E72 Faith in the Midst of Insanity (Ether 6-11)

[@salustone6545]

Thank you so much. I love and enjoy both of you, your insights and for enhancing my knowledge and faith in the scriptures and of course the boundless mercy and charity of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Thank you again. I look forward to your podcast.🙂❤️🙏🙏👍

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am so glad this is a good experience for you. I love how many things we can pull from these scriptures!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Thank you for that very warm comment! This is the best part, and the reason why I love discussing the scriptures in class or in a podcast, to make connections with people like you. Thank you!

[@traceyjones7866]

As we study these chapters, I am struck by the mercy and patience of the Lord. Over and over again He lets us repent and begin again. I love the points you both brought out and the way you were able to tie the Jaredites cycles back to the 4 "Ps" that President Nelson talks about. All of what these ancient civilizations went through is so relevant to what we're currently experiencing. Thank you for your awesome research and insight!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am amazed at how our current prophet and those of the past are in harmony with each other. The important things never change!

[@traceyjones7866]

@@TheScripturesAreReal Amen!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

I think you both summed up my thoughts too, I just wanted to add my Amen!

[@paulinew5089]

I am just so grateful for these podcasts. They motivate me to be more intentional and prayerful in my scripture studies. Thank you for sharing your gospel knowledge and time with us.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Oh, that makes it so worthwhile for us! I am so glad to hear that we are helpful in any way with that. Bless you!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Amen to Kerry's comment! This is the reason we do this podcast, to make connections with people like you. Thank you for your comment!

[@nancywhitten2585]

Enjoying your podcasts. Going through chemotherapy so resting a lot. The podcasts are easy to listen to and uplifting. Thank you.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Bless you in your healing! I am so glad if we can be any part of making that process better. Bless you!

[@trinateasdale3976]

Keep strong.🙏🏼 I also listen to these in my own healing journey! ❤️‍🩹 So nourishing for the tired body & soul. Thank you!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

I'm so glad to feel a part of your healing. I wish you all the best and hope to see you on many more discussions!

[@JosephChild1]

I heard some people discussing some recent tv shows and it got me thinking about how society these days champions and glories in media where the stories are full of secret combinations. The heroes in these stories are celebrated for their sin and poor behavior because it gets them ahead in the world. The more we endulge in these types of movies and shows, the more we think it is normal to get gain through devious and immoral behavior, and even worse, that we will be celebrated for it. The leaders of our church today have long warned us of these things.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I think you are so, so very right!!!!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

You are spot on! We really must take care on where we spend our money, time and attention. Both for what we let into our own minds and what we support on the public side. Thanks for your comment!

[@evalinavallo5009]

As I read these chapters (and other chapters) and listen to your podcast, my mind keeps recalling the scripture phrase "... HIs hand is stretched out still." How patient and merciful is our God!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

So true!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Amen! Thanks for the comment!

[@latterdaycovenantliving]

I will definitely be adding “ What does this have to do with the atonement of Jesus Christ?” to the end of my family scripture study every day. Thanks for that idea! It’s such a beautiful simple way to follow the prophet.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

It has been enriching for me!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Thank you for the nice comment. I learn something every time I am on with Kerry too!

[@annsilva1506]

Thank you both, enjoyed your restraint around your knowledge of the light in the barges, will have a look at your show notes around the research done. I’m keen for that faith connection, as we are lead and inspired by past faithfulness and historic dealings of the Lord to lead and deliver His people. For me being vulnerable is being open to the Lord’s leadership which I feel being demonstrated in Ether. For me the walls of water and depths of the sea resembles very much my journey with my natural person. How grateful I am for the wind that does not cease to blow towards the promised land. Does it make sense that vulnerability before the Lord, said another way “love knows no defence” can lead to our broken heart and contrite spirit. So for me the Jaredite journey is like major heart surgery, the Lord taking the old heart and giving a new, mostly played out in the family as they were in the barges. Thank you for your segment of studying the Atonement of Jesus Christ. For me in this journey His atonement is the wind. Where would we be without the wind and the hope we find in the Saviour’s invitation to come follow Him in this journey?

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Oh, this is wonderful! Thank you so much!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Thank you for a very thoughtful comment! I really appreciate your thoughts.

[@cheryledvalson8109]

When I taught my 11-14 year olds in Sunday School yesterday we discussed that the stories in the Book of Mormon teach us about Jesus Christ and how He deals with people and how that can relate to our own lives. There is so much in these chapters, isn't there? I think Kerry calls them gems..

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

We will never finish mining these gems, they are so rich!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Thank you for teaching the youth and spending your time to help these spirits develop! And thanks for the nice comment.

[@c0l33ng0r33]

As I talked about this lesson to my 4 year olds, I talked about my 8 grandkids. I talked about how with them I'm preparing them like the brother of Jarod did the rocks. I continue to hope the Lord's finger will rest upon them so they can be a light.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

What a fantastic metaphor! This is really helpful! Thank you!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

That is great! You are a thoughtful grandparent!!!

[@lauramuhlestein765]

Thank you for all your work to share. I learn every week from you!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am so glad it is helpful for you!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Thank you for the nice comment!

[@melanieaird9953]

I love that Ether 2:25 says that the He would prepare them against the waves of the sea. I’ve noticed that he prepares his people whenever He has a need or purpose to move his people, that their bodies can withstand all that they need to go through.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

And we can see that in our own lives! Excellent point!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

You are right, the Lord will provide. Thanks for the comment.

[@alinehardman2150]

I listened to most of the podcast and then had a temple session. I really enjoyed making the connection about how covenants are with God to bring us back to Him. They elevate us and we are promising not to serve Satan the ruler of this earth, but to serve God and one another. Secret combinations are words or oaths to serve ourselves and the God of this world. The only way to overcome this celestial world is through Jesus Christ prepared from the premortal world to help us learn and choose Him. He is the only way. We are connected to him through the creation and His atonement. Our words really matter. Telling lies is a form of secret combinations. Satan is the father of lies. He is so good at it. Only through Jesus Christ can we find the truth. Just some thoughts from the temple today.

[@alinehardman2150]

I had typed telestial but it autocorrected to celestial.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Wow, what powerful and clear connections you made. So clear now that you point them out. Thank you! I hope everyone reads this comment!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

So many great thoughts in your comment, thank you for sharing those with us!

[@benjaminjorgensen79]

I’m really loving your work on the podcast. New listener from Hickory Hills Ward Lenexa KS. The one thing that really stuck out to me and how I apply these chapters to the Atonement of Jesus Christ is that redemption for us is a journey, a process, not an event. It’s about becoming a righteous person, people, building Zion, His Kingdom on Earth.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I love how you put that. What a process!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Great comment, thank you for sharing that and thanks for "tuning in" as they would say!

[@31052100]

Book of Mormon for our day and we see it so clearly in Ether!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Amen!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Agreed! Thanks for the comment!

[@brucenicholson-z9f]

Awesome podcast learned a lot

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am so very glad!!!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Excellent, thanks for taking the time to comment. It really does help.

[@lisakofoed1962]

If the holes in the bottom were for the barges to go upside down, there would be a lot of injuries and havoc. I have felt that the one on the bottom was to get rid of sewage. I just heard another podcast that echoed my feeling by saying it was for refuse. With the top hole plugged, the water wouldn't come into the barge to flood it, but they could get rid of their waste.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I would be interested to see how that worked. Who knows? I am curious to see how it all really came together.

[@shireedome644]

I totally agree with this idea, Lisa! I just don’t think they were flipping upside down with all their animals and supplies. They could have fished through the bottom hole as well as gotten rid of all the waste. Guess we will have to wait until we die to find the answer! 😂

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

It was an inspired design no doubt, I just would really like to see how these vessels worked. Thanks for the comment!

[@SoniaTaupo]

I loved the comparison between secret combinations and sacred connections...great guage to measure one's own why...also who do we give the platform to have influenceon our thoughts which determine behaviour, be interesting excercise if I measured this by time and influence....so grateful for scriptures and apostles, prophets today...coz for me...this helps me to hear God and Jesus Christ better through the Holy Spirit...thanks Kerry and Lamar, yous rock!❤🎉

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am so happy to hear everything you said. Such great stuff. Thanks for sharing!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Sonia you rock! Thanks for your very kind comment and for joining us!

[@DeniseFry-z8g]

A note on the secret combinations, it was suggested on another podcast that anything that exchanges human lives for monetary or worldly gain could be a secret combination. Examples might include different kinds of addictions and addictive substances. It has made me examine my own life to see if there are things I am addicted to that are taking away precious time or other things that could be a benefit for me rather than a waste (scrolling social media, binge watching tv, buying things on Amazon, etc). None of these things are inherently bad or wrong and may not have been intentionally made to change my life/time into gain for someone else, but the way I use them could make them that way for me. Something to think about 🤔

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

What a great way to approach this!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

I think you are right in a broad sense. Those things which divert and distract us from being with the Lord all come from the father of lies. Thanks for the comment!

[@JosephChild1]

What an amazing roller coaster the Jaredites went through. Looking from afar, the formula seems so simple. Remember the Lord, and you'll prosper. Forgetting the Lord will lead to your destruction. As you mentioned about families.. the Jaredites certainly went through their fair share of the breakdown of their families. Parents, children, siblings.. murdering each other, putting each other into captivity. The pride they had and the desire for power led to the degradation of their families and, therefore, society. I thought about "The Family, A Proclamation to the World." What an amazing, inspired document. The counsel given in this document is the antidote to the degradation of society. We should study it and apply those teachings into our families.

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

You said it well, and thank heaven for prophets. I appreciate the comment!

[@richardgoddard3584]

Wry relevant and helpful

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

So glad to be of any help!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Thanks you! Thanks for joining us.

[@beckykapp2467]

Your question about Christ’s Atonement-when the people turned back to righteousness, the Lord blessed them. That helps me in my life knowing that he is always there even when I make mistakes waiting for the opportunity to bless me. Talk about unconditional love!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Amen to that!!!!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Agreed! Thanks for the comment!

[@AugustErotiseistope]

🙏

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Thank you!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Thank you!

[@jameswright8486]

On the topic of keeping enemies in captivity. It's an ancient practice of royalty to not kill rival leaders. It's based in fear--fear of losing in the future. The idea is it all Kings refrain from killing other kings (and sometimes their families) in an attempt to preserve their own lives if they get conquered in the future. We can see this in the story of Saul. God commanded him to destroy fall the Amalekites. Saul conquers them but spares their king, Agag and the best of the animals. Samuel condemns Saul for disobedience. What was the extent of Saul's sin? He feared the nations more than the trusted in God. When confronted, Saul lies about his motivations, saying the did it because he "feared [his] people." He really feared the Phililstines and other countries. He feared that the Lord would not be as powerful as Israel's enemies, or maybe he feared that his growing pride would make him unworthy of divine protection. Samuel puts an exclamation point on this by executing Agag in front of Saul. In the Jaredite world, this tradition survived many generations. In fact, Ether was one of these political prisoners. He was a descendant of king Coriantor (1:6) and was born in captivity (11:18-19, 23). I suspect that the reason that Coriantumr initially rejected Ether, is because he saw Ether as just a political rival and rightful king trying to recapture the throne. Even with such a threat, he refrains from killing Ether, perpetuating the system, though only for a few more years.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

You are absolutely correct!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Great comment, I think you nailed it. How weird would that be to have generation after generation live, marry, have children... on and on for many generations. I want to ask them someday what that was like.

[@crystaldavies9314]

Regarding the Atonement of Jesus Christ and these chapters... The captivity throughout this account seems to be teaching us of our own captivity when we don't follow the prophets, but also the captivity we would all be subjected to if we didn't have a Redeemer. Because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we can each be set free from death, sin, and sorrow.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

That is such an profound and important point! Thank you!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

That is a great way to apply this to ourselves. Thanks for the comment!

[@dadsb17]

Thank you for another great walk through the scriptures. You do help make them real to enhancing my personal study. I do have a question about something Lamar said about Joseph Smith - that he knew the references to the redeemer and Messiah meant Jesus Christ so he “put the name in there”. But 2 Nephi 25:19 clearly states, “For according to the words of the prophets, the Messiah cometh in six hundred years from the time that my father left Jerusalem; and according to the words of the prophets, and also the word of the angel of God, his name shall be Jesus Christ, the Son of God.” Am I misunderstanding Lamar or misunderstanding Nephi. My best to you both, Renae

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

You are right, that Jacob learns about the name Christ, or at least I think it is Christ. It may be that he learns that he will be called Messiah (lots of people could be Messiah in Hebrew, since it means anointed one, and kings were anointed, as were priests, etc., which is part of what lead to confusion in Christ's day as they were looking for more of a kingly messiah), and that when Joseph reads Messiah he thinks/understands/translates it the way he knows the phrase, which is Christ, the exact Greek equivalent of Messiah. When working with a name that has a meaning in many languages it gets tricky to know exactly how it was originally.

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

I agree with Kerry's comment and basically what I was saying is that the word Christ is our English equivalent to whatever language the source material is from, like Hebrew, Greek, reformed Egyptian etc. My thought is that the translator (Joseph Smith in this case) knew to whom the passages throughout the whole book referred to and used that English equivalent as he translated.

[@nataleefehr365]

Dr Muhelstein, I love your podcast! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and time! I often find myself reading the conference talks or other references you provide. I am curious about your logo. Would you please explain what the symbols mean? Thank you!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am glad the podcast is helpful for you. The logo is from a beetle on the back of a beautiful golden masked mummy from our excavation site. Scarab beetles are a sign of rebirth, and in the podcast we are hoping to help us all be born again as we give new life to the people in the scriptures and listen to them.

[@JosephChild1]

In 6:4, as they are getting into the boats, they commend themselves unto the Lord their God. What a great imagery. They give themselves to the Lord, and hope that what they've done was enough. They didnt know how long the journey would be. They didn’t know how rough it would be. They didnt know if their inability to steer and avoid obstacles would lead to their demise. They probably weren't sure that their workmanship would hold up. They didnt know if they would see their friends and family again that were in the other boats. They didn’t know anything, save the Lord commanded them. How great does your trust have to be in the Lord that you would be safe in these vessels. They offered themselves to the Lord and it was enough for the Lord, and He sustained them. Thats pretty great faith, for the entirety of the group.

[@JosephChild1]

I think this is the comparison to the Atonement of Christ. That is, as we are sincere and commend ourselves to the Lord and continue to offer ourselves with a broken heart and contrite spirit..and trust in the Lord.. it is enough. His grace fills in the rest. And that grace is enough for what we need now, as well as for the eternities. The early Jaredites commended themselves, and it was enough. They were sustained in their travel as well as their future.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

What a really powerful metaphor!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Amen!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

I love this comment, thank you! Kerry and I have talked many times on how we "commute to commune" and how faith is found and demonstrated on the journey wherever that might be. Across an ocean, though a dark wilderness or where ever the journey might be for you. To "commend ourselves to the Lord" is a great way to express faith. Thanks for the comment.

[@JosephChild1]

​@lamarnewmeyer2747 the journey could be "stuck in traffic on I-15". We should commend ourselves in all that we do. What Joy We can have in our daily lives if we commend our daily journey and our daily tasks. What a great way to "remember" our Savior everyday.

[@KimberlySmith-u1h]

Great content, as always! Could you help me with something unrelated: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How should I go about transferring them to Binance?

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I don't know at all anything about what you are saying. Sorry.

[@strplngwarriormom]

My understanding has grown by leaps and bounds with the Come Follow Me program & various podcasts. I see the Temple more in scripture. Covenants, redemption, mercy. But a theme in really beginning to see in Ether * throughout the Book of Mormon is: exodus. When we flee proverbial Babylon, we need to seek the Promised Land (not just relax on the beach)

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

That is so very, very true! I think God so wants us to both flee and to run towards Him!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Great comment, and thank you for letting us be a part of your learning!

[@tomboyer9571]

Unless I am mistaken, there were some lengthy periods including a 200 year period of peace and prosperity which is similar to the span of time since the restoration. As I think of the wars, conflicts and secret combinations during the last 200 year period, it seems to me that we have no room to boast and as much need for repentance as the Jaredites.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

You are absolutely right! We need to learn lessons from this!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Agreed! We are following these same patterns and we must rely on the Lord.

[@sherielink601]

"What do we do?" Prophet Nelson has told us what to do, get to the temple as often as possible! He says it over and over. The "power" to overcome comes from the temple ordinances. The more wicked the world becomes;

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Amen!!!!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Great admonition! Especially during a busy holiday season I need to make some time and put in the service at the Temple and commune with the Lord! Thanks!

[@LakewoodStakeFinanceClerk]

🥰 Love you podcast! You and your guests have made the scriptures real to me, time and again. So grateful for all you do. I appreciate this week, in particular. Like many members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints reading the Book of Mormon again, I've too often skimmed over the Ether chapters because I couldn't see how they applied to me. You and Lamar have opened my eyes and helped me to see the value of these chapters, even though they are often depressing. On a separate note, you've asked your audience to like and comment on KZbin. I always listen to your podcast on iTunes. If I open the episode in KZbin and fast forward does your show get "full" credit for me listening to the entire episode. IOW, can KZbin tell if I listened to the show at normal speed or fast forward?

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

KZbin does not care if it is listened to at super speeds. Thanks for asking. I am so thrilled if we are helping the scriptures be real for you. So glad!

[@tinabrady7310]

I've often thought that the light represents many things related to Christ. Metaphorically the waves represent TIME that takes us through morality.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Love this!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Oh good comment! I love these "thinker" comments, I need to ponder that some more. Thanks!

[@margiedetiege850]

Re Eth 6:11 It's very interesting to me that when I looked up the meaning of 344 in Hebrew Gamatria, one meaning is 'Anointed One.' Maybe an indirect reference to Jesus Christ. Perhaps an Easter Egg to us from Moroni?

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

That is a fascinating idea. At the same time, I am very skeptical of Gematria numbers. That is a much later development. Numbers such as 7, 12, 40, etc., were always symbolic, but the developed use of symbolism for all numbers does not seem to be something that was around in the time of Jeremiah/ Lehi. Thus I don’t think Moroni would have been using any kind of symbolic system that we would connect with the numbers you can look up today. I am just a bit hesitant about it. Maybe I am overly conservative on the issue. But I just don’t see a safe methodology that could help us draw meaning out of Moroni’s numbers. However, the fact that this number may point towards the Messiah is definitely worth taking note of, and maybe I should rethink my concerns. Thanks for giving me food for thought!

[@margiedetiege850]

Okay. I didn't think about Moroni not having gematria, supposing that got handed down in scribal practice too. I should have erred on the side of caution.

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Interesting thought, thanks!

[@janetlively6865]

I love your podcasts & appreciate the wisdom you & your guests impart. BUT I occasionally find old ideas accepted & handed down without a real examination. One of these is Ether 2:20, regarding hole in the top & bottom of the ‘boat ‘. Do you not remember Jacques Cousteau’s ship, The Calypso? The research divers would go into room at bottom of the ship- which was airtight- & slip into ocean through hole in the bottom of the ship? The Lord is smart enough & kind enough not to have the ship turn upside down! When the top was closed up, it would be airtight & the hole in the bottom could be opened to throw out animal & human fecal matter, maybe even to fish through!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

That could be. I am not sure how it would work, and who knows? I am anxious to see it in the big video in the sky!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

I'm not sure how this works either and I am aware the the underside of the Calypso. They also have other similar bottom entry vehicles on the old bathyscaphes but those require a pressurized room that would be the same pressure as the ATM of water they are in. How they pulled this off I cannot fathom (nautical pun intended) but I am really interested to see what these barges looked like! Thanks for the comment!

[@carolhyatt4666]

I absolutely want to be on the Saviors side!, The other side is very scary!!😊

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Yes it is! Just that thought should be motivation enough!

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Agreed! Thanks for the comment!

[@BrendaM-bd1bg]

I don't believe these barges were flipping around upside down. We read clearly in Ether 2:24 "I will bring you up again out of the depths of the sea" The Lord was guiding these ships along with the wind. He says in verse 24 ye will be as a whale; so then in Ether 6:6 when it says they were buried in the depths of the sea, I think it was just what the Lord described. There were certain areas of the sea where they were under the water, just like a whale. Maybe to avoid the high winds? Maybe to avoid certain other ocean life? We don't know. But, I think that what we do know, is that the Lord was with them the ENTIRE journey and so made sure they were not flipping around in a chaotic manner. There is an interesing possible depiction of these barges that make perfect sense to me. I think the holes were not in direct line to each other (ie top and direct across to bottom, but rather on the top of the "dish" on one side and at the bottom of the dish on the other side (above the water line) - Google - "Speculative proposal for ventilation system in the Jaredite barges". Very interesting theory.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Ah, so the bottom hole is not the bottom, but really the sides towards the bottom but below the water line, is what you are saying? Interesting.

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Thanks for your comment and I agree, I don't think the Lord really had them in a rock tumbler for a year. I'm sure there is more too it and I was mostly having fun imagining what that looks like, I hope you didn't take it that I thought the Lord was short-sighted in the design. I am so interested to see how these were constructed!

[@shanestapley1282]

I use Spotify for regular listening but wanted to leave a comment here to give thanks and promote the channel. Hypothesis: Moroni interjects in Jaredite record about the secret combinations coming forth in the “Land of Nehors” and other geographic connections to hills and areas Moroni is familiar with and gives warning to us as to secret combinations coming forth in our day. Question - 2 parts. 1. Do you think there’s anything to the Jaredites/Nephites meeting their demise in the same area and where secret combinations are born from to any possible correlation to geographic areas of our day and where secret combinations may be originating? 2. It’s clear that there are secret combinations today and that they are global. What’s the antidote? Yes, preaching the word of God. And along with that, do you have any thoughts as to how WE might already be a part of the secret combinations, perhaps as unwitting participants, and if so, in what ways would you see, and what can be done about it? Looks like this was answered in part at 53 min in

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

These are great questions and great points. I don't think we can tell enough about the locals of their secret combinations or ours to know if there is a correlation, but I wouldn't be surprised. And I would guess that we are sometimes used by and accidentally support secret combinations. But I think the greatest defense against them, always, is to listen to the prophets. When we do that, we will be warned what we need to do, even when we don't realize that is why. Prophets will always give us the warnings we need.

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Great comment Shane, thanks! I have heard some people who are proponents of the Heartland Model that had similar thoughts as to the geographic locations but for me personally I don't know for sure. Interesting thoughts though, thanks for the comment!

[@jameswright8486]

It's not mentioned in the Book of Ether, but I must thing that sometime between the tower incident and building the second set of barges, Jared and crew visited Noah and Shem, who were still alive, on their way out. They the presiding High Priests on the earth. Wouldn't you go visit your priesthood leaders before a big trip, especially if he weren't too far away. With all the talk about the Tshohar, the brother of Jared didn't need to find that in the scriptures. Noah or Seth could have just told him--either in a private conversation on their journey or previously in a primitive general conference address. Hey, Noah could have held it up in a solemn assembly and used it as a object lesson for all we know.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

This is a very possible scenario if the timeline we often assume is correct. At the same time we need to acknowledge that the symbolic numbers we have constructed that timeline from are possibly only symbolic, as are the use of most numbers in the Old Testament, and thus the timeline may not be what we have thought it was. I just don't know. But if the traditional timeline is correct, then I would guess that you are right, and they would have been able to talk to these wonderful patriarchal leaders. What a blessing that would have been.

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Oh, good comment! As Kerry said I don't know if we have a timeline that is verifiable but that is a fun thing to consider, that they may have had direct contact with Noah. I'm going to file that under things to ponder about while running and listening to the audio scriptures!

[@benjaminsmith6031]

It was the daughter of Jared, not Akish (Ether 8:8-9) It made me think, you find what you want to find even in scripture. If you are looking for evil, you will find it. (Titus 1:15) It is mind-boggling that of all the stories of mysteries and miracles, what she gleans from scripture is how to concoct secret plans and obtain kingdoms and great glory rather than seeking the Glory of God.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

That seeking for glory will get us all if we are not careful.

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Great comment, thanks! I like the Titus 1:15, I'm and going to link up these 2 scriptures for me. Thanks!

[@Smile-lc6jn]

Hugh Nibley suggests the barges were shaped after ancient boats that looked like the crescent moon so it couldn’t roll over. Why would the Lord have them tumble over and over? That doesn’t make sense.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

It doesn't make sense, and maybe that is not what happened. The way it is written it seems like it would be a possibility, and if the Lord had them prepare the boats in a way that they could take it, then why would I think the Lord shouldn't do that? I am not sure how it happened, or what it looked like, but the Lord can do things in all sorts of ways.

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

What gets me is where they have a hole in the top and hole in the bottom. Boats I have been on don't have bottom holes unless there is some bilge pump or pressure system. I really need to see the Earth replay and get a look at these vessels. I'm a fan!

[@yhosux]

Is there a connection with Emer and Abraham? It's hard to know anything about the timetable of the Jaredites. There are no markers and there's no standardization of a dating system. But we know that the Jaredite civilization started before Tara and Abraham's time. Emer is the 5th Generation since Jared (we also don't know how long each generation lived). But at the end of his life, Emer who lived righteously, and was spared of the Lord, and who consistently followed him, saw the Son of Righteousness. Moroni states that Emer "did glory in his day." It's unclear whether Emer is glorying that in his day/life/time that he could live righteously enough to see the Lord - OR, if Emer saw a vision of the Lord's day, and understood the great plan of God, and was shown great visions like Lehi, Nephi, Isaiah, and many others. My thought is that it seems a lot like Abraham, of whom, the Savior Himself said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad."

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I think you said it exactly right.

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Great analysis, I like that. Thanks for the excellent comment!

[@LakewoodStakeFinanceClerk]

BTW, I always have a harder time hearing the episode when Lamar is the guest. Hopefully, he can get a better set-up, so he's heard with the same clarity as Kerry and all his other guests.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Darn, I thought we had that all figured out. I guess we will need to keep working on it.

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

I thought we did too and I listened to this episode and my audio is not as clear. Doggonit! I'll work on it some more and figure this out! Sorry about that!

[@damarisfish]

Pres Nelson’s 4 p’s - the Telesttial law

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

That's a good name for it.

[@lamarnewmeyer2747]

Good comment! Thanks!