SA80: Is This The Worst Rifle Ever Made?

Got a beard? Good. I've got something for you: beardblaze.com
Simon's Social Media:
Twitter: / simonwhistler
Instagram: / simonwhistler
Love content? Check out Simon's other KZbin Channels:
Biographics: / @biographics
Geographics: / @geographicstravel
Warographics: / @warographics643
SideProjects: / @sideprojects
Into The Shadows: / intotheshadows
TopTenz: / toptenznet
Today I Found Out: / todayifoundout
Highlight History: / @highlighthistory
Business Blaze: / @brainblaze6526
Casual Criminalist: / thecasualcriminalist
Decoding the Unknown: / @decodingtheunknown2373

[@RyanM129]

Fun Fact: The L85A1 was nicknamed *The Civil Servant* because "it didn't work and couldn't be fired".

[@WynnofThule]

If it were released in America today it'd be called the Police Officer. Not effective and they aren't fired.

[@kadeh2661]

@@WynnofThule Really? Lol what's your profession then mate? Hope you're working you're buns off if you're looking down at police officers work ethic.

[@kadeh2661]

@@WynnofThule who you calling when you need someone to protect you? Cause I know for damn sure it's not your drug dealer

[@ReverendMeat51]

@@kadeh2661 Why would you call somebody to protect you?

[@kadeh2661]

@@ReverendMeat51 how long does it take you to get your handgun in your hand? More then 30seconds?

[@tonyhaynes9080]

Some say that it was a slight improvement over the front loading musket.

[@ezrarichardson279]

Lol

[@KG-jm1zl]

Sounds like government overmarketing made that rumor up

[@terryjacob8169]

Debatable.................

[@grimmriffer]

Muskets also can't really be fired left handed.

[@plunder1956]

What a brillant description. love it.

[@Driftingsiax]

The contrast between the government made SA80 and the “built in a shed” L96 is absolutely stunning.

[@ashscott6068]

It's kinda hard to get a bolt action wrong, though.

[@swynty5767]

​@@ashscott6068what?? XD

[@bunk95]

Humans have to be put in specific places in order to behave as theyre supposed to behave.

[@potatoes5829]

@@ashscott6068 tell that to pylon industries

[@Only_Sleep]

@@ashscott6068 Australian criminals make SMGs better than this out of sheet metal in their garages

[@scramjet4610]

"Make something idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot" 😂

[@robzilla730]

EXCEPT the AK-47...

[@briancross7835]

Private soldiers being rough on equipment is UNIVERSAL. I had a sergeant when I was an infantryman in the 101st Airborne Division that would always say, "If you gave a private three solid steel balls, by day's end, he would have lost one, broken one & impregnated the third..."

[@28ebdh3udnav]

XD

[@jupiterjunk]

ROFLMAO!!!

[@boonamai8926]

@Zed Kay Infantry grunts are extremely childish. I know this because I know 2 of them very well and I work as a paramedic where there is a similar effect, the more violent and gruel stuff you see, the more childish you get. Black humour and doing stupid childish pranks on each other can be great relievs of stress. It was almost like Jackass where you couldn't sleep at the night shift because someone would prank you... it helps to not think about your work too much.

[@matthewbartley2746]

Leave a Marine with a 2 inch solid steel ball bearing unsupervised for 30 minutes and he will have broken it.. twice.

[@EveryTimeV2]

Well in a lot of cases these are the bottom of the barrel recruits, a lot of them trying to improve their life by getting the military package. So yeah, average twats.

[@gaz-3711]

Used the A1 and A2 of all variants. A1 was trash if you had the RG mags expect stoppages worked better with the colt mags. Had a few broken firing pins and a gas plug that yeeted itself down the range to leave a rather comical gas plug shaped hole in a target. A2. One stoppage in 12 years and it was my fault. The difference between the two was night and day. Fun story. On the iron sights all the sights were stamped by one guy that got told he was getting laid off. So he stamped them all 200 instead of 300.

[@spadeface8500]

Thankfully i didn't use the A2 that much. When i did it was otherwise a reliable weapons system. My main card was the L7A1 GPMG. My big beauty. Heavy as shit but i did prefer her to the minimi.

[@gaz-3711]

@@spadeface8500 spent a fair bit of time carrying that around Sennybridge too. No substitute for the gimpy. Was not a fan of the minimi.

[@jasonbrown3632]

I used the M16 in basic training, A1 my 1st duty assignment, and A2 my 2nd tour of duty...ALL are garbage, I own a WW2 M1 carbine I would have preferred to have in Iraq and Afghanistan then that damn M16, and the M4 works off the same mechanics, and I would trust it any farther then I could throw it...being a medic I willfully traded the M16 and M4 for the M9 every chance I could, I'd even take a grease gun over those damn M16's and M4's...😡🤬😡

[@TheBooban]

Love it when workers do that

[@dukecraig2402]

@@jasonbrown3632 Never had any problems with the M16 all the way down to the one I had in basic training that was stamped "XM16E1" and shot a perfect 40 out of 40 twice, once on the day we got to shoot the qualification course for practice and then again the next day for our actual score, after that every issue M16A1 I drew out of an arms room all shot perfect scores for me except once which I know was an alibi target that didn't go down either because the round passed through a burned out spot in the target or the target just malfunctioned but you could see the dirt fly up directly behind it, the scorer wouldn't give me an alibi though, it was like "Yea, right, I've nailed every one except that one at 150 meters that had the dirt fly up directly behind it huh? Yea, right". I never had any issues with them and I can honestly say I never saw anyone around me have any issues either.

[@felixthecat3n2]

3:05 Actually, the SLR was not entirely squaddie proof.. whilst I was at Sandhurst, one of my platoon decided to see how far a twig could be fired if stuffed down the barrel on a blank firing exercise. To everyone's surprise, the twig shot just a few feet in the air, but the flash suppressor opened up like an umbrella. I don't recall how he explained the damage to the Directing Staff, but he's now a VERY senior British Army Officer!

[@leangrypoulet7523]

With that level of stellar/risky thinking he must have surely spent some time with 22 on his way to the corridors of power?

[@gregc2467]

Yes the British Armies biggest threat, Sandhurst . I have to stop my comment, don't want to be banned.

[@nicklovell5872]

This is why officers shouldn't be trusted with sharp sticks, let alone rifles.

[@felixthecat3n2]

@@nicklovell5872 Tut tut! Lol

[@nicklovell5872]

@@felixthecat3n2 Lol. It wasn't a private or corporal that Elmer Fudded his barrel in this story...

[@russellstarlight141outlook3]

I served in the Parachute regiment and carried both the SLR and the SA80 during my period of service. Being of Bullpup design the SA80 was difficult for me to fire as I am a naturally left side shooter, however the optic sight fitted to the SA80 did go some way to offsetting the loss of accuracy that I suffered when having to fire from my weaker side. Apart from the reported problems with the SA 80, of which there were many, we found further problems with the weapon particular to our specific role. When we packed our containers (CSPEP) prior to jumping our weapons were placed in weapon sleeves and strapped to the top part of our containers so that when the container was released the weapon was on the upper side of the container and did not hit the floor first. When using the SLR it was common practice to pull the container straps as tight as we possibly could to secure the weapon, anyone who has jumped will remember having a comrade sit on your container while you had both feet on it to tighten the straps! What we discovered was that after landing and taking the SA 80 out of the weapon sleeves, some of them refused to cock because due to the poor standard of materials used in the construction the straps would compress the weapons body to the extent that it deformed it making it impossible to pull the working parts to the rear! Prior to jumping we had to remove the magazine and the optic sight as these had a tendency to fall off during the jump! The Regiment trialled jumping in what was called 'Light assault order' which meant that we didn't use equipment containers but jumped wearing either webbing or an assault vest under our harnesses. The theory was that the SA80 would, using the issued quick release sling, be strapped in a barrel down position alongside the body and with the cocking handle pointing outwards using the issued sling across the body and secured under one of the reserve chutes hooks, the barrel would be secured to one of the leg straps on the harness using a quick release strap. The idea being that once you had exited the plane, use the quick release strap securing the barrel and release the weapon so it swung into a horizontal position with the barrel pointing forward! Before landing the drill was to put one hand on the weapon to secure it which required you having to take a hand off of the lift web! Also the sight and magazine had to be removed and the barrel cover taped in place! Despite the obvious problems of having to secure the weapon with one hand during a potentially rough landing a problem that came to light on the live trials was that due to the turbulence encountered in the slipstream, the quick release sling would er... quick release and the weapon would be flapping about all over the place! The research boffins came up with an ingenious answer to this problem...paracord! A doubled up length of paracord tied to the front and rear sling swivels in place of the quick release sling. What could go wrong? During the trials there were a number of incidents in which the rear sling swivel , which went under the rubber (?) butt plate, was ripped off by the turbulence in the slipstream and sent the weapon careering into the night sky! I don't think that the Regiment ever adapted to jumping in light order. I first used this weapon on a tour of South Armagh in 1988 and spent many a wet, cold and unnecessary night on cordons while search teams went out to find missing magazines due to the unshielded mag release button. Our remedy to the problem of missing mags was to tape paracord to the mag and tie it to the trigger guard! I used this abomination of a weapon in the jungle and we found that mossie repellent would eat through the plastic. As for the bayonets, best not to go there! In comparison to the SA80 the only design fault that I encountered with the SLR was putting the gas plug in the wrong way round could drop the spring loaded securing catch into the gas port or using the armourers loop on the pull through for the 4" x 2", both of which would require a trip to the armourer. The only reason that I can see for the adoption of the SA 80 was that it was Enfields last roll of the dice and guess what 'Snake eyes' came up.

[@andicon98]

Cheers tam

[@never2late_mtb349]

I did a jump where the battalion (2 Para) carried out an overhead assault in light assault order. It was on to Imber DZ in 89/90 I think. I remember it because the battalion ops officer decided that as it was light scales, parachutes would be self recovered. The OC signal Squadron pointed out that radios don't get any lighter just because it was an overhead assault, and was simply ignored. I recall 2 main events. Firstly mounting from South Cerney, I brought my container to a 4 tonner and the bloke in the back taking them took the piss because I was struggling with the 'light load'. I got it up to him and when I let it go and turned away a heard a squawk as he realised too late it was fully loaded, Both my container and he came out of the 4 tonner and landed in a heap. To which I responded "What's up, it's light scales?". The second was struggling off of the DZ with all my gear and my parachutes (120lbs of kit and 70 lbs of main and reserve). When I finally go to the RV I had sweated off every ounce of cam cream and was toast. No idea if my weapon worked or not. At that point I was too shagged to worry about it.

[@craigelliott4446]

Bro as a former paratrooper from another land, I absolutly can not fathom dicking around with that rifle the way you had to. Glad you got old man. We made it through

[@jonnekallu1627]

03:14 "Close your eyes and imagine the most indestructible item in the universe" Nokia 3310.

[@neilb1619]

6110 i

[@becky2235]

Youve been lucky enough to avoid the washing machine trap then

[@sludgemouth1408]

To contrast the L85's development you should do a video on the L96, the sniper rifle made by 3 dudes in a shed

[@prointernetuser]

I love that story. Zach from Mikeburnfire's telling of that story is hilarious.

[@simonaspalovis1204]

@@prointernetuser Which video was it again?

[@prointernetuser]

@@simonaspalovis1204 has to be one of the gun rants. Probably the first gun rant compilation.

[@DiviAugusti]

I could’ve sworn he did a video on something like that. British guys in a shed who had to pretend they had enough manufacturing capacity to accept the government contract?

[@dmh101]

@The Divine Augustus yup. They even hired a workshop and set up a few rifles in various stages of assembly for the army procurement officers to see. When they asked where all the workers were they were conveniently out to lunch. They said to they guys that the inspection was a formality to make sure they wernt....three guys in a shed.

[@TheNigelrojo]

My time in the army included about 11 years with the SLR (or SMG) and about 5 years with the SA80 (L85A1). The SLR, being basically a FN FAL, was extremely robust, packed a serious punch and was and pretty much soldier proof; I never saw one break. By 1993 the L85A1 had undergone God knows how many in-service mods to try to fix it, but it still had problems. It is staggering how our R&D boffins could have designed such a piece of crap, & how it could have been accepted into service. We could have saved enormous amounts of time & effort by just buying the M16 or making it under licence. It is telling that the UK special forces NEVER used the SA80 (unless they were trying to pose as "regular" soldiers). How come H&K could solve the SA80's problems, but our own industry/R&D couldn't? The whole story is a damning indictment of modern British defence R&D and procurement.

[@seanmccarty1176]

My step dad was in desert storm in 90 to 91. Alongside the US troops there were British. He said their L85 rifles just did not work in the sand. Even a little bit of exposure would cause a bunch of them to stop working. Meanwhile he dropped his M16A1, ejection port down, into the sand once and fell on top of it, and it worked all day long. He wasn't able to clean it until the end of the day. No failures. He never had a failure with his M16 in the sand and didn't find an American that did. But oh boy did the brits. He was one handed an L85 and was shocked at how heavy and non user friendly it was. Truly a shit rifle from a shit government.

[@1312Johnny]

GB govt. used Engineers NOT gunsmiths. They were great engineers but not gunsmiths. H&K. Are very good gunsmiths. Proof that experience beats qualifications here…. Engineer ls- great with principles Smith is- experienced craftsmen🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Bladeworkssystems]

H&K never fixed the SA80...

[@TheSm1thers]

​@@Bladeworkssystems They did. They brought out the A2. Now there's the A3 which is even better.

[@Bladeworkssystems]

@@TheSm1thers still terrible. So they didn't fix it

[@simonphelon7221]

I spent many a happy hour cleaning rust off my SA80. I remember the armorer constantly telling us not to turn the gas plugs too far or they will need to be drilled out. Wonderful.

[@mwnciboo]

Yeah everyone had a guy in the section who; 1. Put a massive patch on the pull through and got it jammed halfway. 2. Turn the gas Reg and got it jammed. 3. Lost the firing pin retaining pin in a field strip.

[@thecurlew7403]

The sa 80 needs put in a museum were it belongs as British failed junk design.😅😅

[@armyfazer1410]

As an American Infantryman, after a summer of training the Royal Irish Rangers in the US, we were trained by them in Folkestone. We were issued SA80's. It was different. But I didn't hate it. We had no problem engaging targets out to 400m. Though I do remember one stoppage (with blanks). And being chastised during the AAR for clearing it in the middle of the road instead of finding cover! LOL

[@jmpetersrn]

I'm a fan of the bullpup and collector or military/military-style arms. Have been disappointed for years that we could never get them in the US, warts and all.

[@Jack-mw9zl]

Ahhh the dreaded blanks

[@Jrichards30]

The L85a2 was only tested with live ammo and of all different types and manufacturers. Made so the paras kept the shiny bits shiny and black bits black

[@kieranboulton3953]

@@chasewilliams5128 No, the SA80 still has problems with blanks causing stoppages more frequently than live rounds. It's not much of a problem anymore, but it's definitely still there on the A2.

[@heofonfyr6000]

Why in the hell would you do that in place in the middle of the road, you lazy mother?

[@vikinginfidel4293]

"Never forget, your weapon was built by the lowest bidder" - Murphy's Laws of Combat

[@iantorrens7247]

H&k

[@MrSpiker26]

because the soldier is somebody else's son and is expandable?

[@weareallbeingwatched4602]

Never in Switzerland

[@lavenderlilacproductions]

And your parachute.

[@jeroendesterke9739]

That's what makes me chuckle when manufacturers proudly claim their stuff is "MilSpec"

[@jackroberts2237]

I’ve been in the army 15years, I’ve only used the the a2 and a3. Never had any issues. Field stripping is simple, it was fine in in Afghan in 09 and 11. The a3 is by far just a very competent, reliable and accurate rifle. The sight system and new hand guard are just a dream to shoot with and so easy to zero. Reliability has never been an issue as long as you give it a decent clean every once in a while. And the new magpul magazines are brilliant aswell

[@Sheetzy89]

Every once in a while? you mean every friday at 1400 after Co's PT.

[@jackroberts2237]

@@Sheetzy89 exactly what I mean😂😂

[@Genericdruid]

@@Sheetzy89 Don't make me feel sick now. I've escaped that demented QMSI

[@DjNikGnashers]

I was in the UK Army in the mid 80's, and trained with the SLR, that was a much better rifle. The other weapons around were the GPMG, LMG, 9mm Browning pistol, and despite being old, they were reliable and effective.

[@dak4465]

If you want to know more about the different variants and such, forgotten weapons didba whole series on the sa80

[@jolantru3085]

Nice to see another fan of Gun Jesus. Personally though, if you want a video on bullpup weapons, his pal Jonathan Ferguson is definitely the bloke I'd ask.

[@dak4465]

@@jolantru3085 love his videos too

[@JohnnyDogs1978]

Gun Jesus sees all and knows all(guns).

[@pHpTjMoney]

Thats a great channel too.

[@OutOfPrintGM]

I was about to post the same comment now I don't have to

[@2f5shooter]

The pursuit of making something squaddie-proof is hilarious and reminds me of similar thoughts of US Marines. The joke is that if you put a Marine and a steel ball in a room with no windows or doors, one of three things will happen: he will lose it, break it, or get it pregnant.

[@marklloyd4087]

Not many things,British squaddies can't brake,I know I broke many things during my 13 years in the British Army 🤣🤣🤣👍

[@xhagast]

You are being ridiculous, I can't believe he will lose it.

[@ReverendMeat51]

That was my first thought too, only I first heard the joke different. It was a Marine locked in a room with three bowling balls, and as a former Marine, the joke is accurate

[@VeteranAlpha]

This reminds me of a story that a US Marine Qautermaster told me. He said that he hated repairing the M203 underbarrel grenade launchers all the time because the Marines would constantly break the slide by using it like a pump shotgun. 🤣🤣

[@frankspig]

Up is Gary he will mate

[@mothmagic1]

As we used to say in the army "Have faith in your equipment but remember it was provided by the lowest bidder." Also make sure you know how to fix it because sure as hell when it goes wrong you will be as far as possible from workshop support. Anything supposedly squaddie proof is nothing of the sort. It's usually broken with no effort on its first field deployment.

[@stevetibbs7032]

I was issued a new SA80 when I joined up in 1991, from the start I had a big problem as I’m left eye dominant and a left handed firer , the weapon was utterly useless, magazine would fall off, loads of stoppages . I was luckily made gunner and was given the amazing GPMG, but I was told it would be replaced with the LSW ( long silly weapon) . This was even more insane, a support weapon needs to be belt fed like the gimpy, I lost count of the times I shouted MAGAZINE, just as I was providing fire support on a section attack. More shockingly was the LSW could not sustain automatic fire for very long without the firing pin breaking, so all is LSW gunners carried a spare firing pin. As the second gulf war approached I was starting to get concerned, especially as I had been promoted to section commander and re issued a rifle. Luckily however Heckner and Cock had made an amazing improvement to the rifle and we were issued the A2 . Although it was such a rush we hadn’t even had time to zero then before being deployed,lol

[@JochenHormes]

I guess the engineers at H&K had a lot of fun while analyzing and fixing that thing.

[@bthsr7113]

"Fun"

[@ONEIL311]

At one point I think the h&k begged the British government to throw it away

[@Heiryuu]

“Anguished German screaming in confusion in the distance.”

[@darkdruidsvale]

@@Heiryuu my thoughts exactly "how in the name of gods green earth did this thing make it to the front lines" would probably be their reaction, and in the process of saying that theyd probably summon a demon or something with how german can sound at times XD

[@Twmpa]

Interesting fact. Those H&K modifications apparently cost, at the time, around £1400 per rifle which, I was told, would have bought a couple of the standard US Army rifles and left you with a wad of spare change.

[@cheekydaminen5227]

Definitely want to see one on the EM2

[@BoostedPastime]

The seventh generation Honda Civic?

[@andrewtadd4373]

forgotten weapons has a series on them 👍

[@Kav.]

Please no, we don't need more EM-2 misinformation out online. I'm so tired of seeing people just make shit up or misunderstand it.

[@AnonAnonAnon]

I must have been a pervert. I loved the L85A1! Having had the SLR for so many years, the L85A1 was like alien technology! A rifle, with a multipurpose sling, and with selective, full auto fire, wow! I can honestly say, using it on and off ops for around 10 years, I never experienced anything dire with all the L85A1s I had as a personal weapon. I must have fired thousands of rounds down the range, the odd stoppage but again, nothing that weapon training couldn't solve. And I found it accurate. More accurate than the SLR. I placed my trust in it in Belfast and Kosovo (although never fired in anger) and it never let me down. Of course there was SA80s that caused problems for fellow comrades. Whether this was through poor handling or control issues when been made, I don't know. Overall, I was happy enough with it as a personal weapon. I only wish I was serving now to experience the L85A3 which I've been told by mates still serving is a fantastic weapon. PS: Before any of you have a go at my comments, I was and still am a gun nut hence I accepted and adapted to the introduction of the L85A1 into my unit many decades ago whilst the dinosaurs in the unit went on and on about the SLR and SMG. All good things come to an end.

[@fullmetaljoker666]

Is that why you guys won't get rid of it? It's not good so it'll never die.

[@johnwarr7552]

I suspect you are correct - there are some basic design flaws but a mate of mine "in the trade" reckoned that these were made worse by very poor QA especially in the early Enfield made guns resulting in some weapons that just worked as intended and some that failed in interesting and sometimes exciting ways :-)

[@paulb1912]

I used the L85A1 SA80 and it was fine until the gas stoppages started. I have used and still do use the A2 version and I love it.

[@TauGDS]

An additional point about being forced to shoot right-handed is that handedness is not actually that important to marksmanship (at the end of the day the greatest extent of dexterity you need is twitching a finger) the main factor is which eye is dominant. when I coached scouts to shoot, we had a few kids that were right-handed but left-eyed, rather than let them continue to attempt to break their necks trying to put their left eye on the scope, we taught them all to just shoot left-handed

[@MrNigzy23]

Interestingly enough during basic they gave out eyepatches if your dominant eye was the left one.

[@TauGDS]

@@MrNigzy23 we did that as well, made them out of old milk bottles if I remember right

[@ChoppingtonOtter]

I'd disagree. Having been a shooter since 11 years old and left-handed and left master eyed, I was never *quite* as accurate and definitely a little slower shooting with my wrong hand and eye with the SA80. As a lifelong shooter growing up with firearms as part of my life I was gutted to not be as accurate. The buyers who decided on a rifle that 10% of the population are disadvantaged on whose lives may depend on it deserve a place in hell.

[@kalliste23]

The real disadvantage from not being able to fire from either shoulder is when trying to use cover.

[@thekeytoairpower]

@@ChoppingtonOtter I think the comment was about cross eye dominance not left handedness. My SO is right handed and left eyed. She will out shoot most people with a pistol in either hand and with either eye but is best with the right hand and the right eye.

[@aaronleverton4221]

UK: We've created a new 7mm (.280in) intermediate cartridge, perfect for all non-theoretical battles. Also, this really cool new jet-age rifle to use it. US: No thanks, we see your research and the Soviet's new intermediate cartridge and we demand the .30-06 be "improved" to 7.62mm and you all have to use it. UK: Ok, our cool new rifle can't do that, but we've looked at your round and we accept we all have to use it, so here's this fantastic new rifle the Belgians have made based on John Browning's work. US: No thanks, we're going to adapt the M1 Garand rather than take a brand new rifle for NATO standard. Our bullet, our rifle. US: This 7.62x51mm has kind of a kick and way more range than necessary, what if we went to an intermediate round, say about 5.56mm? UK: We've developed a new, new intermediate round in 4.85mm. Very useful. US: No thanks, we like the Belgian version of our intermediate 5.56mm round. You all have to use it. US: 5.56mm isn't powerful enough. We've developed a new 7mm (6.8mm) round that we're going to use. You can all do what you like!

[@barneymiller7894]

😂😂😂 I'm 100% of the opinion that the British should be picking the standardized cartridges for NATO. While some of the British weapons platforms aren't so great. It seems like they have they have a better understanding of ballistics that actually work in the field instead of ballistics that look good on paper.

[@TeensierPython]

And they’ll probably follow suit and adopt a 6.8 in a few years. (It’s going to take a while for even the US military to adopt it)

[@jolantru3085]

Kinda puts me in the mind of the old Thompson Lagarde tests of the .455 Webley.

[@RuiLuz]

so true, lol!

[@cumgoat]

like other nati countries shitty military could even do anything but ask the US for help if something kicked off lol

[@brianthwaites1546]

Absolutely brilliant video. More like this please Simon.

[@amytaylor7796]

Hello there 👋👋,how are you doing today? Hope you’re having a good day?God bless you!!❤️

[@english544]

I was in the army when we made the transition from the SLR to the SA80. The SLR 7.62 round was ballistically very powerful out to a long range. The problem was that the rifle opened up like a shotgun to remove the working parts for daily cleaning. It pivoted on a joint in front of the magazine housing. But the foresight was on the barrel end and the reassign on the button end. The slightest wear on the joint would introduce inaccuracies even after zeroing. The SLR had a long barrel and a heavy magazine in front of the pistol grip. None of the weight was near the shoulder or on the right arm that you could clamp into your body for support. The left arm took all the weight. So firing standing up unsupported took a lot of strength to shoot accurately. Weaker men and the majority of women would struggle to hit a target at even 100m. You would have to be lying down to stand a chance of hitting anything at 300m. Very few soldiers could hit a target over 500m. Enter the SA80. All the weight is near the shoulder and the balance point is at the pistol grip. Weaker people can shoot it more accurately unsupported, even with iron sights. As it was being introduced shooting competitions saw the SA80 units thrash the SLR units. With the SUSAT telescopic sight it was brilliant. If properly maintained you get very few stoppages, less than the SLR imo. It is a weapon for professional soldiers not 3rd World irregulars. The 5.65mm round is ballistically weak inviting your enemy to engage you from long range. But all in all, the SA80 is much easier to shoot accurately, you can carry more ammunition, it can fire full automatic and you get few stoppages.

[@english544]

Reading back through I see some predictive text feature re-wrote "rear sight on butt end" as reassign on button end. Confusing for the reader and makes me look like a moron. Sorry.

[@atticusrussell1225]

Just to let you know, you can edit comments

[@Twohundredby200CoUk]

The A1 had it's faults but it still did the job in GW1. The mags were a problem when intorduced but we used to wrap m16 mags with plumbers tape to solve the probs until the new mags were issued and the problem disappeared. The SUSAT was initially a little delicate but after it was realised it could be refined easily it was spot on for point and shoot. Once H&K got involved with the A2 it became a sturdy weapon and served me and others as well.

[@mrtlsimon]

The EM2 and the M16 story would be epic. The M16 story involves an aircraft manufacturer developing it, shooting watermelons on full auto at a BBQ by the General in charge of the US Air Force getting it adopted into military service, Navy SEALS, failures in combat, Congressional inquiries and much more.

[@natopotato6012]

The "problem" with the M16A1 was the issuance of out of spec ammo. The rifle itself never had any problems.

[@RaderizDorret]

@@natopotato6012 Out of spec ammo, bean counters having the gun made of substandard materials (wrong alloy of aluminum for the lower receiver), US Army Ordnance Corps deliberately refusing to issue cleaning kids and otherwise dong everything they could to sabotage the M16 so they could keep the Government armories and arms factories running to make the M14, etc.

[@Reach41]

@@natopotato6012 It was a great rifle for short range. We’ve lost a number of good wars with it, but that’s another story. Light weight, and you could carry a lot more of the .223 ammo with you than in past conflicts that utilized .30 caliber infantry weapons. Perfect for urban fighting, but a joke at Afghanistan ranges. It wasn’t called a poodle shooter for nothing.

[@Unb3arablePain]

@@natopotato6012 you mean the regular M16, the M16A1 fixed the issues with the ammo, non-chrome BCG, and a couple other smaller things.

[@natopotato6012]

@@Unb3arablePain Before the M16A1 was the XM16. The X comes before all military designations when describing prototype rifles that haven't been standardized yet. In November 1963, McNamara approved the U.S. Army's order of 85,000 XM16E1s. In March 1965, the Army began to issue the XM16E1 to infantry units. However, the rifle was initially delivered without adequate cleaning kits or instructions because advertising from Colt asserted that the M16's materials made the weapon require little maintenance, and was capable of self-cleaning. Only the gas tube is self cleaning. In February 1967, the improved XM16E1 was standardized as the M16A1. The new rifle had a chrome-plated chamber and bore to eliminate corrosion and stuck cartridges, and other minor modifications. New cleaning kits, powder solvents, and lubricants were also issued. Intensive training programs in weapons cleaning were instituted including a comic book-style operations manual. As a result, reliability problems greatly diminished and the M16A1 rifle achieved widespread acceptance by U.S. troops in Vietnam.

[@tonylam9548]

An American drill sergeant said, if you lock a new recruit into a sealed room with 2 solid steel balls, in one hour, he would break one of them and lost the other one.

[@non-fictionaltoughguy1208]

Which drill sgt said this, it sounds pretty silly

[@ehinomenoseghale7579]

Lolz Bravo Simon. This is the most hilarious video I have ever seen on KZbin. I have viewed this video so many times. Absolutely hilarious video. Driving me crazy with laughter(Couldn't fire even if a grain of sand looks at it, etc)

[@stephenbond1990]

If anyone is interested in the development steps leading to the Sa80, Forgotten Weapons did an entire series on every step of the Sa80's development history.

[@bmstylee]

Oh yeah. Gun Jesus does quality work.

[@wings9925]

They sure did. Ian's review was far more balanced than this distorted hatchet job by Megaprojects.

[@jonevansauthor]

Yes but I could see Jonathan Ferguson's, (Royal Armoury curator) video on it, and since he literally wrote the book on bullpup, that was published by Ian of Forgotten Weapons... ;) I'd love to get a copy of that book at some point. But watch both. It's all good stuff. Ian does a bit more of the actual shooting of some of the weapons.

[@bkucinschi]

When I want a solid opinion about a firearm... sorry, but I'd rather listen to Ian McCollum a.k.a. Gun Jesus.

[@Seth9809]

@@wings9925 My God! I loved that series! It was like every single new version of the weapon was worse! I need to watch it again!

[@rangefinder3538]

I once saw a promotional brochure for the SA80 where the headline read 'SA80 THE BEST OF BRITISH ENGINEERING. Under which someone had scribbled "so was the Titanic!

[@dukecraig2402]

In all fairness to the Titanic there was nothing wrong with the engineering on it, It was working perfectly fine right up to the point where the idiot crew sailed it into an iceberg, it was engineered to do a lot but not collide with an iceberg, that one's on the crew not the engineer's.

[@AlexSDU]

Bloody brilliant and yet savage. 🤣🤣🤣

[@saiberunato]

Back in the mid 80's, I remember reading a SOF Magazine article that gushed about the new British weapon. Saying the SA80 was the best assault rifle in the world. Guess it was hype.

[@DavidParkinson]

Very interesing peice. I served from 86 - 91 and for 4 years of that the SLR was my constant companion. It was heavy, brutal, often leaving you with bruised shoulders but as mentioned, squaddie proof. When the SA80 started dripping to the masses towards the end of my time (only the infantry had it before that and as REME we got it last) it was a breath of fresh air, light and modern looking with a “cool” sling. That all quickly dissipated on use. Cheap, plasticky and with bits falling off it (including the magazines falling off endlessly) we hated every second with it. We never even got the cool Infantry sights, just the standard iron sights. The kicker for me was always the coking handle being on the “wrong” side. After years with the SLR moving your hand to the other side of the weapon to cock it never felt natural. Wasn’t in for long enough after that for the improved versions, but long live the SLR, my maggot mate for many years.

[@petermalloy5360]

Used the great L1A1 SLR 1973-1986 Durability and reliability Excellant.Effective range 800 M.Replaced by the Steyr which was unreliable and effective range 400m

[@petermalloy5360]

NewZealand Army 1973-1998

[@DavidParkinson]

@@petermalloy5360 True but it was heavy and as a battlefield weapon we were always told it failed because it killed too many people, and the 10 people stood behind them! In modern warfare a good weapon maims on the battlefield, taking the enemy out but also clogging the supply chain with injured soldiers.

[@jamesspicer5628]

I loved the way you only had to say "water" and it started rusting

[@Thebreakdownshow1]

The title is so direct only people who know will know what they are going in for.

[@madat5843]

LOL 😂

[@danielcurtis1434]

I know glad to see Simon get his 2A groove on!!!

[@danielcurtis1434]

@jsI no nothing “is hear”!!! You are either running a scam or at least your advertising in ridiculous ways. I’m here to watch gun videos not cooking shows!!! Seriously what is your angle???

[@TobyAnderson]

@@danielcurtis1434 It's a mindless bot.

[@williamfinucane]

I'm 19 minutes in and just read the title for the first time. Very funny

[@XXWhambarXX]

I was an armourer in the army during the first run of the sa80. We found the only way to stop a squaddie removing a screw was to paint the head red. It stopped it overnight!

[@I-wrote-this-about]

Hell naaaaa, anything painted red around my lads made them drawn to it 😭 they'd have pressed, prodded and whatever else hoping to see a nuclear reaction

[@connormcleod4669]

DFT screws (DONT F’ing TOUCH)

[@pieterveenders9793]

Bit barbaric, painting a squaddie's head red.

[@Eck1876]

Used the A1 version doing my time and never really had an issue with it though too many parts for stripping and assembling and the only 2 faults I had with it were 2 broken firing pins which is never good. Also to note when my Susat got sent away for refurbishment somehow they managed to put it together sop that my range adjustment drum was to the front of the rifle, really doesn't inspire confidence when you get told turn it round only for the SNCO to twig that the rubber eyepiece was then to the front.

[@carlteacherman194]

Excellent video and strange to reflect back to when we swapped SLRs for SA80s in 1990. For most us it was crap in terms of durability, but good for us in the RCT, getting in and out of vehicles quickly, much lighter and easier to handle. I'm glad I was able to experience and fire both (not in anger) during my green time. 😊

[@ianray8823]

Don't forget to check out Forgotten Weapons videos on this.

[@jamconsi590]

SA80 A1, utter gash. A2 and now A3, genuinely good kit.

[@benross7580]

Has it's reputation recovered? I know the rifle is good now, but it seems like it would carry a reputation from the A1 days

[@jamconsi590]

@@benross7580, HK sorted it out once they got their hands on it. I had the A2 and just missed out on the A3, I’d put it up against most other issues small arms weapon systems

[@RKSLRock]

May i asked on what personal experience does you comment come from? Or is it just internet based horror stories?

[@jamconsi590]

@@RKSLRock 13 years in the British Army should pretty much cover that

[@rogermurtaugh4766]

We're you a cook, or someone who actually took the weapon into the field off a controlled range?

[@Wardog-rf1tx]

So glad that my cadet and BA Regular Forces life included WWII weapons, SLR, and Sterling SMG. In the Canadian Forces it included C1A1 (SLR) with the C7 which was okay, but I was always a fan of the 7.62 x 51mm round, and semi automatic rifles. My civilian rifles primarily are 7.62 x 51 caliber.

[@jacobprice2579]

Friendly reminder whenever you’re in a outdoor store or something. “Military grade” means “mass produced by the lowest bidder”.

[@conjie1986]

Nicknamed "The Civil Servant" because it wont work and you can't fire it

[@dukecraig2402]

OMG that's hysterical.

[@simisomavuso2713]

😂 😂 😂

[@meanredspider]

I was working at Enfield as a summer job when Enfield Weapon System was handed over to the British Army and was tasked with organising the pageant of previous British Army weapons - procuring historic uniforms and film weapons - which was fun. I also worked on the machining of the bayonet. It’s fair to say that the issues with the A1 were known at that time. I also got to visit the Enfield “Pattern Room” - an Aladdin’s cave of historical weapons.

[@AshesWorkshop]

If anyone’s ever built or repaired AR-15s will know that “mil-spec” always refers to the least expensive and worst actually usable parts

[@andrewsparrowhawk1637]

Good video presentation with factual jnfo. Well done

[@Unb3arablePain]

On the Forgotten Weapons video of the SA80, there's a commenter who said in his service that a guy tried to kill himself with it but the rifle failed to fire. So then he had to complete his guard shift knowing his rifle didn't work but also that he couldn't report it.

[@GjVj]

lol, holy shit...

[@ignitionfrn2223]

2:05 - Chapter 1 - Background 5:45 - Chapter 2 - Development 12:05 - Chapter 3 - Failure 19:05 - Chapter 4 - Closing remarks

[@PolishCaptainC4]

I've seen a lot of videos on the SA80, this one is a great take. Do cover more military failures!

[@mattking3439]

This is the most comprehensive review of this weapon that I've seen. Thank you Simon

[@LemmingRuss]

Every former serviceman just audibly screamed when this uploaded.

[@davey2363]

Correct

[@kiwi_comanche]

Yup. 😂

[@jimmyjohnson7027]

Why?

[@LemmingRuss]

@@jimmyjohnson7027 reflex action from SEEING an L85A1. The A1 version was truly terrible.

[@davey2363]

@@jimmyjohnson7027 because we loathed the SA80. Most people thought it a menace.

[@charliebarnes6225]

Never had a problem with it, to be honest. It had its weaknesses such as open perforations which could get sticks or mud in, but you learn to look for problems and anticipate them. It was so accurate, amazingly so. I quite liked it.

[@brendanh8978]

By all accounts, after HK was done with it, it was a solid reliable rifle. The AR18 design is a great one, how the MOD managed to screw it up is kind of a wonder. HK had a lot of tweaks to make, but didn't have to fundamentally redesign the rifle or anything. The bigger scandle after its bungled roll-out was how much money was spent to make it usable. In the quest to save face and salvage the project, they spent enough money per rifle to buy more than twice as many new M4s or C6/7s. What was supposed to be a low cost home built rifle become one of the most expensive standard small arms in the world. The whole point of the AR18 design is that it was to be cheaper than the AR15 design, using stampings instead of expensive castings or forgings with intricate machining. Yet the MOD managed to make theirs over twice as expensive as American and Canadian AR15 pattern rifles.

[@Splozy]

My dad liked it too

[@jackl45]

Yeah its a great range toy. Take it to combat lol

[@gavinmiller690]

@Wallace Carney I liked it, never had a real problem with it but we really looked after ours. Are you going to accuse me of stolen Valor?

[@beccascott2867]

@@gavinmiller690 no one in the uk says stolen valour 😂 I wouldn’t take notice

[@BloodMoonGo]

Would love to see more videos on specific firearms Simon

[@katieblackmore2004]

OK i know the name on the account says Katie, but that is my missus..... I served in military for several years. With the PWRR then attachment sniper to 2Para spanning several theatres of war from Iraq, Afghan and other beautiful friendly places. Over the period i served, i used many weapon systems.... and i can tell you, there are far more out there worse than the SA80. You see movies glamorise or prefer certain weapon systems, and for the most part.... They are right. But for me, i mainly used 3. Now as a sniper, it cracks me up in movies when you see the actor running round, with a full kit, armour, high heat and he is carrying usually the Barrett 50Cal like he was carrying an air rifle. The Barrett and AW50 (i used both) is an anti matter rifle, mainly meant for blowing holes through buildings, engine blocks, APC's.... technical's..... Not people. You don't and can't carry the weapon system ready for contact because the bloody thing is to big and heavy. It was carried between me and my spotter, usually one taking the muzzle/barrel, ammo singular or magazine, and the other the guts of the rifle, stock, scope etc. My bread and butter was the L11 sniper that is highly accurate, powerful and a joy too use, and the SA80. Now there have been variants of the SA80 and redesigns i believe, but on the whole, though i am not the biggest fan of bullpup rifles, i never had one issue or experienced ''dead man's trigger'' as people called it, meaning you went to squeeze the trigger and nothing happened due to a feed jam or dirt, sand etc..... I should imagine that would be pretty scary. There are better rifles out there but this is not the worst at all, and i have fond memories of using this workhorse. Though for me, using on few occasions the FN SCAR.... there is something about that weapon system that just feels and sounds so comfy for my style of shooting at least, it just feels robust, powerful and will hit whatever you point and squeeze at.

[@twice1962]

“Military Grade” really means “your equipment was made by the lowest bidder”

[@rubiconnn]

Anything that is sold as "military grade" I will automatically assume every corner has been cut when designing it and it's being sold for 10x the price it cost to make it.

[@MrTrilbe]

@@rubiconnn so the same as everything on the normal market then?

[@rubiconnn]

@in desperate need of a scotch mil spec does not mean military grade. Mil spec means the parts are dimensionally the same as military issued parts so that everything will be interchangeable. You can have mil spec parts that are superior to military grade parts.

[@Im-the-greatest]

@@rubiconnn I've worked on mil spec items before. I usually tried to make sure it was all perfect. Unless they took too much tax.

[@joshm3484]

“Military Grade” really means “your equipment was made by the lowest bidder that was able to meet the specifications and requirements set out in the contract."

[@michaelkavanagh5947]

I liked it back in the day, was a pain to clean but it had a cool gas valve when you couldn’t (many missed this and it made it rugged used correctly). It rarely jammed for me or if it did you could clear it quickly. The site was innovative and effective when most were on steels. The use of plastics was well done. Easy to load, easy to make safe. Great sling system. Accurate too. This thing kills like it blows people to mush on full auto. It was heavy. The long barrel variant was too heavy and could not sustain fire. Had a few silly springs in it. All in all I preferred it to anything else in the 90’s. From desert, jungle to Scotland and everything in between it worked for me.

[@zenseijay2428]

Good health to you, brother. It's a good rifle. From a trainee in Wales.

[@CancerGaming56]

Hear, hear. It's a fine rifle, better exists but it works now. I had barely any stoppages with it and preferred shooting it to weapons I spent more time with, such as Kalashnikovs, their variants and the few civvie rifles I've fired across the globe.

[@mortdecai6655]

Aye, L85A1 had it's issues, however, it wasn't much worse than other rifles in the nineties and the L85A2 is slandered on the internet for no solid reason. The L85A2 works like a charm and performs to international standards and the L85A3 merely improves upon it.

[@daveharrison4697]

I recall it being heavy as fuck, but it perched in the hand like it was born to be their. The Crow Cannon (LSW) on the other hand was a heavy and awkward pain in the arse. Agree that cleaning it was a mare.

[@stemartin6671]

Can't wait to get my hands on one when I get into basic

[@ScienceChap]

Don't forget that the M16 was an absolute pig when it was introduced into service. The L85A2 I used in service was an excellent weapon - powerful, hard hitting and accurate at a range which would have made an AK user weep. I loved it.

[@Jack_tarr]

One of the most enjoyable videos I’ve seen you do Simon, though for different reasons than normal. Having used the L85A1, A2 and A3 in my time in service, the upgrades have done a world of favours to the weapon system! Still, I can’t wait to ply with the C8 the marines are adopting 😏

[@Cdr_Mansfield_Cumming]

You only give your best, the best 😉. The C8 is everything the A1 and A2 weren't. The A3 is more accurate if firing from prone; it (A3) is much better when using it like that. Especially for this left-hander. The C8 is a lot more powerful. It has that “thwack” the old SLR had.

[@williammorris7390]

@@Cdr_Mansfield_Cummingthe C8 and L85 use the same cartridge, C8 feels more powerful because it has a shorter barrel and is lighter meaning more recoil. The L85 is technically more powerful though because of the longer barrel meaning higher muzzle velocity meaning the round carries more energy out to a further range.

[@geodkyt]

The American equivalent of squaddie-proofing is exhibited by the joke: Issue a squad of privates three solid stainless steel 12" balls at first formation. By lunchtime, one will be missing, one will be broken, and one will be pregnant.

[@marvintpandroid2213]

squaddies could break an anvil

[@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t]

I've heard "lost, pawned or bitten in half".

[@TheVillainInGlasses]

Also, idiot proof is not infantry proof lol

[@RKSLRock]

Just a point of fact: Heckler and Koch were owned by BAE Systems at the time and the work was carried out by H&K Nottingham formerly the Royal Ordnance Factory. Having spent a lot of my time in the British military using the A1 i only ever saw problems with crappy mags and once broke a cocking handle. Whilst enthusiastically performing the iconic Forward Assist "karate chop". I will admit ergnomically its was and remains terrible but many of these issues are now grossly exaggerated for KZbin clicks. But when you do a bit more research of talk to people that actually used the weapon you find the truth is not quite as fantastic or dramatic.

[@MrTrilbe]

All in all it's a good weapon, considering it was developed by a group of people with no experience with weapon design or the meterlergy involved with weapon design, that's another thing people don't take into account, it wasn't designed by firearms engineers and considering a firearm is the closest thing you can get to a "safe" p1p3b0mb its impressive it even works (intentional typo is intentional because youtube youtubes so hard)

[@jackherer519]

"But when you do a bit more research of talk to people that actually used the weapon you find the truth is not quite as fantastic or dramatic." I agree however if you ask anyone that was issued the SLR they all say the SLR is better

[@MrTrilbe]

@@jackherer519 that just proves that their opinion is that the SLR was better, not that it was objectively better

[@jackherer519]

@@MrTrilbe true except the SLR was a flushed out and tested already. The L85A1 did have issues. However if you were to offer me an L85A2 or an SLR to go into battle with i would pick the L85 9 times out of 10

[@MrTrilbe]

@@jackherer519 if offered either to take into a battle i would pick option C) "wtf has gone so wrong you need me to go and you're giving me a choice" 😅

[@danko6582]

I have no intention to change anyone's mind, but... I trained on the SA80 L85 A1 in the late 1980s as a cadet. It was light, compact and deadly accurate. I remember the rumours of duct tape and jams, but I never saw any such problems. It didn't have the stopping power of 7.62 but really the only problem was you couldn't shoot it from the left shoulder or you'd lose your teeth. That meant you were exposed if you went round the left side of cover and also it wasn't ideal for me as I'm left eye dominant. That said, I won a shooting trophy at the Devonshire and Dorset Regiment so it wasn't that big of a deal.

[@howardlewis1005]

26 years in the Mob. A1 had problems which i personally experienced like the mags falling out and the round not ejecting properly, but various upgrades during my time has made it into a solid weapon with a good sight for a standard all arms weapon. It's very accurate, short (which is good trust me), easy to clean and very hard to break. But it's heavy and without all the upgrades over the years, was unreliable in a sense that the round wouldn't eject properly, bounce back at you (getting burnt) and the mag falling out, which we really don't want in a standard weapon. Since the upgrades I hardly ever have problem with them, but without them it was a IMHO a subpar weapon. Having shot various standard rifles of other nations, in it's current state I rate it quite well but it's defo not one of the best, unless it's pure accuracy you are talking about in a standard rifle then it's defo up there. It's a shame it came out a tud but finally, at the end of it's life turned into a good solid weapon. The accuracy has always been a star for me, considering how short it is and a constant during it's life so wasn't a COMPLETE turd from the start (A1), it always had that.

[@Cdr_Mansfield_Cumming]

We were on a yomp on Dartmoor when one of our lot suddenly realised he had lost his mag. It had just dropped out. I was hopping mad when I found out. I made the entire Troop march back, looking for it. I was giving my senior NCO some earache over it for 4 miles. Eventually, he went off fizzing at the lad who did it. We found it, turned around and as we were so far behind, I decided we would pick up the pace. After about 200 yards, the NCO, who by now had exploded, screamed at the top of his voice Mr XXXXXXX, Sir. I stopped and turned around, a bit perturbed to have been stopped. Only for him to march up to me with the mag from my weapon in his hand. We found they were dropping out far too easily if heavy and wet. The A1 went Bob Marley on one weapon all the time for no reason at all. The armourers were pulling their hair out over them. Its size and accuracy for a standard weapon is brilliant. I'd put it up there at the top on that alone. We have access to every NATO and non-NATO weapon. The C8 we have as replacement is better by a country mile.

[@AbsolutesausageJockey]

@@Cdr_Mansfield_Cumming a fellow bootie I sense 🫡

[@CoffeeFiend1]

Imagine going through SAS/SBS/SRR selection just to get away from the L85.

[@darkdruidsvale]

ill admit i have no idea what any of those branches does but from what this video says i think it may have been worth the effort and probable suffering those selections would put you though to get away from it XD

[@Red_Beard2798]

@@darkdruidsvale - SAS/Special Air Service, SBS/Special Boat Service, SRR/Special Reconnaissance Regiment (I assume, correct me if I'm wrong). British special forces, known for their incredibly brutal recruitment process. So basically soldiers would be willing to participate in a recruitment and training process that could literally cripple them for life or kill them (there are genuine records of trainees and recruits dying in the process) rather than tolerate the SA80 a second longer XD

[@darkdruidsvale]

@@Red_Beard2798 oh lord XD

[@DuplexWeevil337]

Well they fixed it now its ranked top 5 service rifles now

[@dizzyWLRD]

They never used them

[@alastairbarkley6572]

I visited the Royal Ordnance L85A1 factory (Nottingham) right at the end of 1990. Trouble in the Gulf was a near certainty and RO were under huge pressure to produce large numbers of these rifles in very short order. They were really struggling. Many of the rifle components were subcontracted out, they were experiencing supplier delays and QA problems. They were required by then to operate 24/7 but actually only had enough skilled assemblers to operate a single 8 hour shift so they'd taken on a huge number of temporary workers which wasn't working out well. The whole place looked as if it was waiting to be properly established later and there was minimal automation to be seen. Everybody seemed half-mad with stress and my engineer guides were grumpy and distracted. Unwittingly, I started a conversation about the comparative superiority of L1A1/SLR which went down like a fart in a lift. My tour ended abruptly shortly after that.

[@5ynthesizerpatel]

Mikhail Kalashnikov after seeing the SA80 "You [Britain] must have some very clever soldiers." My dad - former British Army Colonel: "Being a squaddie isn't difficult - if it was, squaddies couldn't do it"

[@johnsullivan3444]

Brilliant video. I was an avid follower of the liberation of Kuwait and remember seeing footage of a soldier cleaning his rifle in the midst of a fire-fight while being bollocked by his sergeant. The rifle was jammed with sand and he had to clear it somehow. I just felt badly for all the squaddies that had to deal with poor quality rifle. I think the G36 had similar problems in Germany. I do hope they get rid of the SA80 family of weapons. It's a hideous weapons system.

[@StevenLockey]

Yet every VPN advert Simon says "military grade encryption" 😃

[@urban1337]

Stop noticing things.

[@trelard]

I remember the L1A1 SLR myself from Cadets as a teenager. I remember I had to learn to strip, reassemble and fire it to pass my Level 1 Arms certificate. Haven't seen one in years, but those pictures brought back memories. Including the one when I was practice stripping it, forgot to hold the main spring down and it ended up giving me a burst lip and scraped nose. Good times :P

[@colinp2238]

Injury is a very good teacher.

[@bigd8924]

Great stuff! You should make a video about the Bradley Fighting Vehicle... :)

[@andrewbarten7347]

And people talk about the Armalite/AR15/M16 teething problems! The SA80 was truly the British Leyland of the gun world!

[@johnjones-fj7qw]

As an infantryman in the British Army circa late seventies, early eighties I used the Self Loading Rifle {SLR}. It was rugged, stripped down very easily, was accurate - and quite difficult to render unusable. We knew that it was probably too powerful over the ranges we were expecting to use it, but it had been shown that an enemy when hit would be stopped! The twenty round magazine coupled with the size and weight of each round made the weapon a heavy one. And lastly, with a bayonet attached, the length of the enhanced weapon was good although in a limited environment could be restricting. When we received the SA80, which was lighter and enabled each infantryman to carry more rounds that the SLR, the immediate impression was its apparent fragility represented by the comparatively flimsy green plastic covering where handling would be necessary or likely. The gun was primarily sheet metal covering the solid firing mechanism/barrel, again emphasising its potential fragility. Its small size made it challenging to carry and with bayonet attached it did not seem either intimidating or potentially as fatal as the SLR plus bayonet. To fire, it was accurate when zeroed, but the sight {part of the weapon which had no iron sight} being large was easily knocked off zero. Inability to fire it safely left handed was an ongoing problem, and as the video says it couldn't be used safely by a right hander shooting round a right handed corner as the whole of the left side of the body would be exposed. The magazine held 30 rounds, but we never put more that 25 rounds in because of the danger of jamming. The plastic levers [safety catch] could 'fall off' and as the video says, it was not uncommon for the magazine to fall out. Incidently, the magazine was tinny possibly as it did not need to be very wide to accommodate the small round and easy to damage. Finally it was just to complex - even a field strip would involve breaking the rifle into what were small components, easy lost or misplaced in combat I'd imagine. Not a great weapon.

[@marrybichaelmore3372]

Cheers dits

[@marrybichaelmore3372]

@Wallace Carney and I suppose Centurion was a rank, and not a tank back in your day

[@ehsanhu123]

tbh you know your shi! i mean really dude you know your job.

[@MzLunaCee]

IIRC the early mags were Springfield made, and flimsy as hell.

[@Englishman999]

I was late 70s early 80s too so only ever knew the SLR and SMG. I often wonder how things might have been different in the Falklands if the SA80 had been issued then!

[@kremepye3613]

"Mum i want an Aus-Steyr" "We have Aus-Steyr at home" The Aus-Steyr at home -

[@robertkirk4387]

I remember in training our instructor telling us how unbreakable the FAL SLR was as he threw it across a room. YEP, he broke it, the Armourer was not best pleased. 🤣

[@JaEDLanc]

I remember when we converted to the SA80 rifle from the SLR in 88. With an SLR my personal shooting wasn’t great but with the Rifle I became a marksman so even though we knew it was an inferior weapon to the SLR, the SA80 was easier to hit a target plus it is fully automatic. Anybody can get information from the internet to make a video but I actually used it, it was easier to patrol with in an urban area, it was easier to sleep with in a basher or trench and it was easier to stow away in an armoured vehicle. I never had a problem with it personally, with the SLR we had an iron sight and if you was lucky one or two guys had a SUIT sight but everybody had a SUSAT sight with the SA80. I was a Small arms instructor in the infantry (as is every infantry full screw in the British army) so a professional would be able to give you a better idea about the weapon. A lot of the faults got fixed and everybody was aware that the mag came off before they put a guard over the mag release catch. Nice video though, a bit inaccurate but still good well done.

[@tridentpc1466]

I fired the l1a1 as a cadet and the recoil was horendous it was heavy and almost as big as me as13 year old. Later in my cadet time i fired the l85 which was lighter, smaller, less recoil. I could see the benefits, and later in life when I served, i could really see the benefits, as in vehicles, weight on foot, lighter ammo at 5.56. But if I had the choice, I'd probably choose the slr, i got my crossed rifles badge with it, and... As a kid... It felt like a real weapon 😍😂🔫

[@Neomaster35]

@@tridentpc1466trouble with the SLR was it was a long weapon and not suitable for FIBUA fighting, when converted to SA80 found my APWT scores were better with the SA80. Never really had any issues with my weapon but I wasnt infrantry

[@nigelbotterill1936]

16 years in the army and i love the sa80. The only issues ive ever had with it have been user errors (ie poor maintenance) or magazine feed issues ( usually the older metal magazines being bent). The rifle is accurate with proper training. A brief edit. I've only used the sa80 a2 but i know of the sa80 a1's horrendous flaws even though ive never used it. A second edit bullets arent ejected from the ejection port the cases are. A third edit. I used the a2 in Afghanistan so i am biased in favor of the rifle.

[@zenseijay2428]

Good health to you, brother.

[@smitty7510]

I love your acceptance of bias, whic I will admit I have too

[@Mjk10957]

Nothing wrong with the SA80 never let me down and it worked great in iraq and jordon , i had a A1 in training back in 03 it wasnt great but it wasnt as bad as some people try and make it out to be

[@cmdrjipsee546]

I worked at Royal Ordnance in Notts in the late 80's early 90's and there was so much scrap from making this weapon that one guy took bits home and made his own. He only got found out because they counted the ammo you used at the range and he was caught smuggling rounds out. He got banged up instantly.

[@dilldowschwagginz2674]

If an employee did that in the states he'd probably get a promotion for showing excellent aptitude for weapons assembly. I'd hire him for sure

[@pottyputter05]

They should have just asked if it worked any better than the ones that put together

[@pottyputter05]

@@dilldowschwagginz2674 I know this is one of those my dad can beat up your dad things but I do know of someone that was the armory master for a base that has uppers and lowers for about 10 complete rifles from the m16a3 up to the more recent m4 carbine variants and he retired LONG ago. Basically he's that lazy preper we all know and love and just wants them around incase. This is a man with so many firearms he forgets he has them for years until someone wants to shoot it. He's never hurt a fly and is one of those guys that's hilarious without meaning to be just by virtue of being who he is.

[@bluebobx]

I'm now thinking of that bit in the old film Carry On Sargent where Bob Monkhouse does a perfect reassembly of a Bren gun.

[@StevenHeapRecipes]

Great video, thanks mate

[@jayd8743]

Used a1 and a2 in cadets over a few years on the Colchester ranges... Zero issues with both. Talking to siblings with twenty years plus in the Army, they seems to have had little issue with live rounds and some with blanks on a1 issue. All those I've spoken to have said a3 is spot on. Like the m16 worked first time lol.

[@zeitgeistx5239]

Butthurt.

[@zeitgeistx5239]

Also SAS and SBS were among the first in the world to use the AR-15 long before the U.S. did in Borneo and Malaysia.

[@humphreybradley3060]

I served as an infantryman in the British Army for 30 years, firing every personal & crew served weapon system throughout my career until 2013. I converted to the SA80 in 1985 from the SLR. Frankly I read & watch so much crap about the A1, I carried it throughout GW1, firing 1000s rounds through it without ANY issue whatsoever!! Yes, the magazine release catch initially wasn’t shrouded so it would release the magazine when impacting the body (due to the unfathomable sling!), it was a highly accurate & reliable weapon! The problem in the early days was the utterly sh!te M16 magazines that were issued! Within a year the Radway Green magazines appeared & stoppages fell off a cliff. The SUSAT increased 1st time passes of the Annual Personal Weapons Test by a factor of 6/7 compared to the SLR & despite the lack of punch from the 5.56mm the weight of accurate fire from the SA80 & LSW more than made up for it. The A2 is significantly better than M4, I tested it extensively on ops in Afghanistan in 2012 whilst attached to the 82nd Airborne. More love required for the SA80!!!

[@rogermurtaugh4766]

Better than an M4? That's why your own SAS uses modified M4s. Look I understand you love the weapon you deployed with but don't be stupid.

[@iamjames8200]

@@rogermurtaugh4766 SAS uses multiple different weapon systems, most recently the SIG MCX and L119A2, the latter is based on a colt Canada C8. So no, they don't use the M4. Not now anyway. The argument of a tier 1 SF not using the standard issue firearm is a bad argument. What tier 1 SF uses the standard issue weapon system of they're country?

[@ShawnHinck]

Having used both, that’s a load of crap. There’s a reason why units with the option to use both both pick the SA80….

[@trev8591]

The A2 was a much improved weapon, Brother. I had multiple firing pin breaks with the A1, it was a piece of shite. I loved my A2, as an old fart I used an SLR, but it was so fuc**ng heavy (very accurate, though). SA-80 A2 is a much under rated bit of kit.

[@JohnnyDogs1978]

@@trev8591 bingo. When firing pins are a common breakage you've got a problem.

[@bushmasterflash]

I put thousands of rounds through my SA80 over the years from the desert to the arctic and all areas in between. It only ever misfired or jammed when using blank ammo. Shooting targets at range got harder than it was with the old SLR and it didn't have the same punch. A 7.62mm version would have been nice.

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

Is this the a1 version?

[@SimonLX]

Sure you did 😂 No one under the age of 35 wanted a 7.62 version. The A1's jammed ALL the time, not just with blanks, the LSW was virtually unusable.

[@bushmasterflash]

@@SimonLX Never used or had the LSW, we used the GPMG or M60 (7.62). Nobody under the age of 35 knows how good the old SLR was at range. Until Afghan when suddenly people wanted a better longer range weapon again. You can't fight physics. From Bardufoss and northwards, Danish, German, French, Spanish, and Italian training areas. Gulf war 1 and 2, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo. Northern Ireland, Salisbury Plain, Pirbright, Falkland Islands, and Otterburn. No exaggeration, thousands of rounds live and blank through my SA80, no jams with the live ammo. Never.

[@bushmasterflash]

@@Eduardo_Espinoza I handed in my SLR and got issued an A1. It got swapped as the mods came out.

[@SimonLX]

@@bushmasterflash lol and this is how I know you're talking crap. The British army never had M60's. As you're a boomer who claims to of used the SLR too, you would of been alive while the LSW was used in units, but quickly replaced due it it's utter chocolate bolt. You also keep calling it the SA80. Stop.

[@foryourlugsonly]

I quite liked it tbh. Never had many issues with it. The biggest problem for me was keeping it clean. But generally I suffered almost 0 stoppages, blockages or gas part failures. Used to be able to keep my pills inside the pistol grip as well. Handy

[@KB-uu4fy]

Whilst I served we had the SLR. I loved it and it lived with me in NI. It was super accurate. I couldn’t use the SMG because I used weapons left handed. The ejected round on an SLR went off at a near 90 degree angle from the weapon. An ejected SMG round would come back and hit me in the face.

[@LawrenceButcher]

Having used the A1 and A2, first was truly a pain in the arse, particularly when they were older and getting quite rattly. I remember being on a cadre at Catterick and having an old A1, it was so sloppy that after a few rounds rapid, the change lever crept onto auto! Got a bollocking from the DS the first time, then it happened again...A2 was a cracking bit of kit though and never had any dramas that weren't down to user error.

[@rlowethewitch8417]

lol I had no choice but to read your comment with something akin to a Cockney-dialect British accent. Apples and pears, mate!

[@turtlezeus1610]

Totally in favor of more weapon systems mehaprojects

[@NKA23]

My dad worked for VDO a German company, that produces automotive electronics and mechatronics. He often told me, that they had many contracts for the German military, producing German tanks' electronic and mechatronic devices and electronic and mechatronic instruments and their spare parts for the Bundeswehr's trucks and other vehicles. He also told me that these "military grade" devices/instruments like f.e. tachometers where basically the same that VDO also produced for basically all German car brands back in the day, with the only difference that they had been spray painted in olive green and cost 4 times as much. My dad had tears of laughter in his eyes everytime he told anyone about that.

[@aikons27]

The MOD had implemented some improvements by the time I used this weapon in 1998, on problem was, the magazine would fall out, not because of the weapon being "wobbled about too much" but because the magazine release catch was too prominent and could snag on the ground or if you sideswipe the catch brushing up against it, most rifles have the release catch on the side, so I'm sure other weapons do the same, maybe the l85a1's was a little to easy to depress, maybe this was to easily detach the mag for user ease, however, this maybe being the case, they added a front guard to lessen this occurrence. We were well drilled on possible malfunctions such as sand getting into the firing mechanism and how to clear this quickly, we were thoroughly drilled on how to field strip and clean the entire weapon in under 2 mins. The reason the 5.56mm round was decided on in my opinion and from education in the U.K armed forces was it's designed to maim, not to Kill, I'e if you disable an enemy combatant, it takes 1 or two others (if the enemy are of a caring nature to their fellow soldiers) to remove the injured combatant off of the battlefield for treatment whereas a 7.62 or whatever is most probably death if your hit. I personally having used the L85a1 and a few other rifles shooting for fun in the USA including AR'S shotguns and even pistols found the sa80 very user freindly, accurate, low on recoil and very easy and quick to disassemble and reassemble, both modes of fire (single or burst) were easy to switch, the mags easy to load and fairly lightweight and just with ironsights, even in full NBC kit I could accurately hit targets at 300 metres. I will say SOME, some of the weapons I used seemed to be a little '"rattly" as in the weapon magazine may rattle a bit (but wouldn't fall out) Other than that, i don't know if it's just me using it so much, I would love to own one if the U.K would allow it for using on a range for example. 7/10 in comparison to other rifles I've fired, I've never fired a more recent version such as the L85a2 or any more recent ones.

[@ghostwriter2031]

Only problems I had with the early A1 were the magazines falling off - it was rectified by an upgrade to the magazine release. Broke a few firing pins and you had to remember to forward assist but on the whole not a bad weapon. If you were a good shot with the SLR then you were even better with the SA80. SUSAT was good for it’s time.

[@andrewchapman6983]

Pin was a cunt had to carry a cpl spares mags were shit i once had the bottom collapse the spring to go flying and all my rounds to just slide out was like wtf and i got a bollaching for it like id done it deliberately apart from that wasn't that bad keep it clean and oiled but would of rather a scar

[@kingcosworth2643]

If you have to forward assist the mechanism, there is a design fault. You often see this with 2 piece cam operated rotating bolts. All the added bearing surfaces create a lot of friction and as soon as a bit of soot builds up, they start to not feed properly. The holy grail in semi auto design is argued, but the AK47 is right up there, single piece rotating bolt is a brilliant design that allows large tolerances and still be operable.

[@bobthebomb1596]

@@kingcosworth2643 Just not that accurate.

[@Mulberry2000]

@@bobthebomb1596 Ok do have experience with the rifle or just googled it. If you google it clearly you ignored the fact the rifle in even in its crap stage was accurate.

[@bobthebomb1596]

@@Mulberry2000 I have fired it yes, though only on ranges. I think you misread however. My accuracy comment was not aimed at the SA80, which I can confirm was an accurate weapon even in my hands. It was directed towards the AK47.

[@charrisfamily8455]

Im absolutely loving the fact that a civi knows what Military grade really means. 11 yrs in the Australian Army and I've seen a lot of "Military Grade" gear .

[@lewdyson4744]

Military grade = cheap and mass produced shite, amazing how many people think military grade means it’s good

[@hanzgruber8676]

At least your military picked a better bullpup

[@TomDog5812]

I want to paint a case of pencil sharpeners Desert Tan and sell Tactical Pencil Sharpeners for $10.00 a pop.

[@charrisfamily8455]

@@TomDog5812 just put military grade and people would buy it

[@MikailStoner]

As an American, I've always wanted one of these just because we can't have them due to Import regulations. Plus, they're kind of iconic in appearance.

[@jonathanramos8414]

Bullpup guns in general never made sense to me. But I guess they are cheap and easy to manufacture

[@MikailStoner]

@Jonathan Ramos You're getting rifle length barrel ballistics out of a package that's like half that size compared to an AR or similar.

[@jonathanramos8414]

@@MikailStoner the Israeli Tavor looks pretty cool.

[@-lightningwill-6014]

Remember that the Rifle your showing is the L85A2 and is much more reliable than most options out there as well as having amazing characteristics

[@averagejoe8358]

Literally, I really don't see why he's criticising some Troubles-era technology then there are developed alternatives in 2022.

[@stephenwilliams5575]

I was issued the LSW for the majority of my time in the army it was so heavy that by the time I was issued a standard A2 for Afghanistan it felt very light to manoeuvre with.

[@Volvith]

'Military Grade' to outsiders: "Oh wow, this must be really high quality!" 'Military Grade' to everyone familliar with it: _"Cheapest bidder, overvalued waste of tax dollars, skirting the line between acceptable and useless, probably went through 3 decades worth of maintenance in 3 months because Joe the overgrown Grunt tightened several bolts _*_off_*_ of the frame, if you're lucky it's not literally held together with recycled duct-tape, if anything goes wrong you're responsible for all the shit everybody else did to it and it's your balls on the chopping block if it finally commits seppuku out of sheer abuse-trauma."_ The Humvee is the greatest example of military grade. Humvees are amazing vehicles, you know, _for as long as you've never driven in one._ They're more expensive than a fully kitted out fifth-gen Dodge Viper (250,000$ ... The Humvee, not the Viper.), you've definitely sat on more comfortable plastic garden chairs, when you go onto the highway and you floor it you realize the gas pedal isn't actually for more speed, it's just a button that makes more noise if you push it, if you're lucky you can make it up a hill, if you're unlucky you're trying to drive an armored Humvee up a hill, which is 9000 pounds of a quarter of a million worth in dead weight powered by 140 horses _(Less than a 2020 Volkswagen Golf),_ and the real joke is the emphasis on trying there because that thing is not going anywhere, not even while driving down the road, because that little engine is so overdrawn that you're gonna have to stop about once every hour or two at a gas station, despite the 25 gallon tank. All this to say, ladies and gentlemen, i present to you, MILITARY GRADE! *_Still wanna buy a Humvee?_*

[@dustinmatthews387]

Back when E! Television was popular (mid to late 90s) they featured actor Gary Coleman...and his vehicle at the time...was a humvee. It was quite funny seeing a vertically challenged person hopping out and saying hi to the camera!

[@spinyslasher6586]

The promises of being a Humvee for the common public is what the Hummer sold on, and of course naturally it sucked just as much ass.

[@Predator20357]

I would fully agree but then I am reminded about what US Soldiers did to M9s. It’s like saying the kitchen is bad while the previous inhabitants made it look like someone struck the place with a sledgehammer. I’m not saying your wrong (The Humvee definitely feels like an massive oversight that should’ve had more work done), I’m just saying that it doesn’t help the Humvee if the people using it will fuck up any vehicle they’ll get their hands on. Can’t squadie proof something even if it’s the best made thing.

[@Nintendonicke]

Heh, I guess the 22 000 Humvees left behind in Afghanistan are a bit of a poisoned chalice then. Thinking there's a lot of quartermasters out there that are relieved they are the Talibans headache now.

[@colbeausabre8842]

When Alan Shepherd, the US man in space, was asked what is like, sitting in the capsule atop the rocket, waiting to launch. he replied "The one thought in my mind was that every single part was made by the lowest bidder."

[@danielbuxton4493]

Absolutely...I was in the CCF as a 17 year old, and my main memory of it is of the sight nearly blinding me time and again, and regular jamming. I loved the old Enfield though!!

[@richardprice7763]

I was in the cadets in 1989 and have horrible memories of the bolt action L98A1 cadet version of this gun. Constant feed and extraction issues...

[@Mrwells4Q]

I remember using an L98 as an Air Cadet. On a range during freezing temperatures and it certainly liked jamming during cocking for reload. Made a nice sound though

[@jimmyjohnson7027]

That's because you didn't pull the cocking handle back far enough.

[@centuriontwofivezeroone2794]

I always thought of the SA80 as a formula 1 car, on the range in the dry it was a fantastic weapon, put it in a typical British outdoor scenario and it was akin to putting that formula 1 car on the backstreets of Brum. Bits fell off, other bits melted with the mozzie "love juice" repellent, The SUSAT sight was pretty damn good but ironically had tiny little pins in it's body that broke easily buggering up zeroing with every shot moving it, and really screwed with the REME guys, until they had experience of fixing one. On Onion Range in the Falklands we had so much ammo to burn through (kind of like you'd need in a serious fire fight) but this amount of use melted the plastic and it fell apart, mud, dust, rain condensation wrecked it. Firing it with the sword attachment would see that flying off, magazines fell off and required constant cleaning to keep in working order.... It also hated squaddies, just seeing one upon opening the armoury would make it fail. (My experience: Early to mid 90s) We missed our SLR's...

[@reluctentninja]

Any bullpup that is produced without the ability to accommodate left-hand shooters is extremely short sighted

[@AbeusMaximus]

How about left handed people learn how to use the RIGHT hand like a normal human. It’s RIGHT for a reason.

[@Topher7527]

@@AbeusMaximus You still need to be able able to shoot off-hand. Whether for shooting around an off-hand corner or firing with an incapacitated right arm, you need to be able to use a combat rifle left handed.

[@AbeusMaximus]

@@Topher7527 Left is not right!

[@Kataquan]

@@AbeusMaximus left handed IS the right way to shoot off the left side of cover though.

[@error-mc5xw]

@@Topher7527 that actually makes lot of sense

[@atinofspam3433]

To put it simply, as someone who has used the A2 and now the A3; The SA80 WAS the worst modern rifle ever made, but not anymore. There are still flaws don’t get me wrong, but it’s a good rifle and I will stand by it til the end of time.

[@BurningSovereign]

Are you suggesting the a2 was the worst modern rifle ever? Because that isn't true. Or are you suggesting the a1 was the worst rifle? Having admitted you've never used it, how would you be qualified to make that claim?

[@chick189]

When the upper and lower wobbles so much it's pointless zeroing.

[@TarnishUK]

@@chick189 the upper and lower wobbling is of no consequence, the sighting arrangements are all mounted on the upper so are not affected by it in any way. The same could not be said of the SLR with the rest sight being mounted on the lower body and the fire sight on the upper.

[@chick189]

@@TarnishUK I respectfully disagree entirely

[@EthanThomson]

@@chick189 i mean, have you used it? my rifle shaked like fuck, but i managed to do pretty damn well with my groups on it, so i'd argue you're chatting shit

[@Mod-rw9cw]

I carried an SLR through 5 yrs of service and it was reliable and never let me down. Just heard horror stories about the SA80 from the day it was first issued.Never fired one it was after my time.

[@Evilroco]

The reverse for me ,joined in 88 just after the regiment transitioned from the L1A1 ,nothing but good was said about the L1 and nothing but bad about the L85 mags dropping out was re occurring theme

[@zacharystowers8367]

As a gun nerd…this is fantastic. Have you thought about doing a weapons channel?