Saddle Re-Pointing | CRITICAL for Intonation & Tone!

Your string contact points should always be given very careful attention, as they're the foundation of your tone and intonation. Learn how to re-point your Tune-O-Matic saddles in this video, and remember to make it a habit on all of your projects. The difference is pretty mind blowing, especially when it comes to intonation.

[@geraldponce8336]

Only problem with a sharp point is it wears out quickly. Think if it is angled back slightly above the tail piece and rolls off a little there shouldn't be any issue and it should last longer. Iearned my lesson with a Gibson style nut. It almost immediately wore out. Second time around i came off at a slight back angle for about the width of a fender nut. Then rolled it off towards the tuners. Much better job. Imagine the saddles at the other end are not much different. Same concept. Slotting files, triangle file and radius gauge. Take it back at a slight angle then roll it off

[@guitar_md]

This is what I've been thinking I'll try the next time it comes up. I do think that will work perfectly and will be a longer lasting solution, for sure. Back filing the nuts is a classic...can't believe I didn't think of that with the saddles. I've fixed intonation issues at the nut the same way, just by angling the slot back on the same angle as the tuners. Makes perfect sense when you think about it. For now I'll leave this up, or maybe for posterity. But no doubt about it -- that is the way. Much easier too. I also recently splurged on a set of diamond nut files that work great, and may be particularly well suited to saddles.

[@geraldponce8336]

@@guitar_md yeah them diamond slotting files are nice. Happy building.

[@ArrozAguado]

Could you guys do a video demonstration of this? I really don't understand :[

[@geraldponce8336]

@@ArrozAguado i should start a blog. Need to invest in equipment and learn how to edit. Just at what point is your main focus. Making videos or actually doing what you love. Suppose for a lot of people it provides the financial support to spend more time doing what they love. But still they have to create content all the time

[@geraldponce8336]

@@ArrozAguado imagine a string on top of a triangle 📐. That sharp point is going to wear down quickly. Vs having a small 1/16-3/32 flat spot. Then file the nut slot back at a slight angle. 5 degrees so the pressure point is still at the front of the nut for proper intonation. Once the slot is past the flat spot on top roll it off towards the tuning peg so there is not any sharp edges on the back edge. That is a slot that will last longer. And you shouldn't have any intonation or sitar effects.

[@ryanhennessey5124]

Holy moly!! a guitar tutorial that is quick and to the point, ty jesus

[@blortslompson2388]

Doing this brought my guitar to life, now my plain strings actually resonate and sustain!

[@guitar_md]

Thanks so much for letting me know! I was actually going to delete this video as I've been second guessing it. See the pinned comment -- a very good thread. I failed to mention that there is value to trimming down the saddle tops, even if we're not making the contact point narrower. Having big walls around the sides of the string will very likely dampen vibration, and that can happen if the string is cut too low in the slot. I suppose I'll leave this up for now in that case. And maybe do an updated version lately. I'm always very worried about spreading misinformation, and want my videos to be as accurate as possible. Very glad to know this worked for you, so again, thanks for letting me know! I might not have to abandon this method after all. Would be curious if in your case you think you actually narrowed the contact point, or simply removed the excess "walls" of material around the string. Would be very helpful to know just for my own information and notes and so I can keep making better videos for the future. Thanks again so much!

[@rdog421]

Kinda sketchy that you posted it and now you’re questioning its validity. Then one comment reconvinces you?

[@breadedkat729]

Fantastic and to the point, great video!

[@guitar_md]

Thank you, Be sure to check the pinned comment. I have a lot to consider for upcoming videos, just want to be sure this information is accurate!

[@INeverWanted2010]

I lol'd when you said "Stew Mac Nut and Saddle Vice". Those guys are the masters of making single use tools.

[@guitar_md]

Single use tools are sometimes just the nature of the beast. The angled jaws on the Stewmac vise are not on any other toolmaker's or miniature drill press vise I'm aware of. The design is very portable and solid, and while it's a one-trick pony with holding nuts and saddles, it also functions as an excellent general miniature vise. I use it almost daily for holding pickups while I de-solder lead wires and eyelets for rewinding, as well as holding PCBs and other electrical components in place for soldering, on top of using it for its primary intended purpose. Ironically, the nut and saddle vise is at the top of my list of essential (for me) Stewmac tools. The only other one that immediately comes to mind is the Stewmac Plunge Router Base. Not saying they don't have other great tools. But most of their other stuff I can find alternatives for on eBay for much cheaper. Or, even for the same price or *more* expensive, there are makers like Summit Tools that offer alternative and truly innovative designs that no one else is offering. Some of their tooling for working with stainless steel frets, for example, has been indispensable for me. That being said, it can be hard to discern between what's truly essential and what isn't. Sometimes you don't know until you order the wrong tool. Fortunately Stewmac has the best customer service I've ever seen in any company. Always quick to accommodate, no hassles about returns, and no hassles about replacements. Any time I've had an issue, the response has been same-day and usually with a tracking number or paid return shipping label provided almost immediately.

[@jonesybones13]

Great tips!

[@guitar_md]

Thanks! I sure hope so. I have had success with this, but if you look in the comments, people made some great points about simply back-filing the slot with a nut file, as opposed to narrowing the contact point. I'm still undecided. But I do think if the string is buried too deeply in the slot, it probably impedes the string vibration. Let me know if you have any success either way and thanks for the support!

[@mikebob7184]

M.D. is doing this correctly, the "take-off point at the saddle(s) and nut can be short/narrow/sharp/minute supporting the strings, it's the scale length and break angles at those points that are critical. The string "break over/take-off point" is never a right angle, the physics of each string bending at those locations makes a radius , so that increases contact itself, so why go wider. Wish I could explain it better! Edit, this is good: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3vWfX6cp9mnl7c ........................................................................................

[@guitar_md]

Working on an Ovation acoustic at the moment, and it has very narrow contact points on the saddles. Sounds great. They're the saddles that have individual looking pieces, like this: imgur.com/a/uKjx44M

[@cobowe]

If you look at 50's lips the saddles are fat... You just angle the slot back ( like you would on the nut

[@alga1309]

Does this same priciple apply to acoustic saddles?

[@guitar_md]

Yes, in theory. I'm still on the fence here, as you can see in some of the comments. Some people have gotten great results with this method too, other people disagree. I'm leaving this video up for now, but I'm still unsure of what the truth is. But yes -- whether it's true or not, you can apply this to acoustic saddles as well. Acoustic saddles tend to get grooves over time which can lead to a bunch of problems as well, so it's trickier. If the grooves wear so deep that it acts like a notch, the strings will become extremely difficult to bend. And also keep in mind as the notch wears into the saddle, the contact point will get bigger and bigger, which can mess up intonation too.

[@LewisLetsPlay]

Surely you're completely changing the string height by at least a couple mm, and if the point is too sharp you'll be snapping strings on aggressive playing?

[@guitar_md]

Good questions! Here's my take: The string gliding *over* the groove is what would break strings. If the string is seated in a notch and is not moving side to side, no risk of breaking strings. That's one reason acoustics can be tough with string bending. Little notches can form on the saddle and it's the string rubbing *over* that notch that breaks it, as it's basically sawing at the string every time. The string height will only change if you file the top of the saddle down, or deepen the notch. Similar to crowning frets. A properly crowned fret will not lose any height after leveling -- you leave the middle untouched. So, if done correctly, this will not change the height of the string. Saddle notch depth is hugely important though, for sure. I always check the action meticulously, in the playing position, with a digital gauge, at the 12th fret. Each string individually. Each individual string should be set to a specific height for best playability. My personal preference for example is around .030" GBE strings, around .046" Low E, .040" A, .035" D, with .000" - .001" relief in the neck. Super low action -- but regardless of where you enjoy your action the most, it's important to check each string individually. I'm on the fence with this method as well. It does work. But other commenters have suggested merely using a nut file to re-ramp the slot. This method is about reducing the width of the contact area for the string. Some people feel more contact area is better, some less. I have noticed a narrower point to help in cases of a 'dead string' sound. I have yet to run into this problem again so I haven't been able to test whether just re-ramping the slot with a nut file would work. Hopefully this answers your questions. Let me know, and thanks for commenting!

[@LewisLetsPlay]

@@guitar_md Aha now explained I definitely agree. I'd assume at some point a string would break from downward force onto the sharp point if it's saddled correctly rather than rubbing down but I'd think that's much more uncommon. And I'll just be careful to never re-notch the saddles too much and make them too deep. Would you recommend a good set of nut and bridge files? They're all so expensive and here in the U.K. can't find any retailers! Cheers.

[@everTriumph]

Cannot say that I like the idea of filing a chisel point to insert into a wound string. A contact patch should cover at least 3 windings or it will snag. Just one thing I dislike about Tune-o-Matic Bridges.

[@guitar_md]

Good point. One commenter here noted that it worked great on the *plain* strings. I was going to delete this video but truth be told, I have had success with this method for all strings. I have a video about a "Dead Low E string" on a Schecter, that I brought back to life using this method. You can see that here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWTGdnmIi86haLssi=onggcGxFp23jmBBV However, you make a good point, and if I could do that job over again, I wonder if simply re-ramping the slot with a nut file would have solved the problem just the same. My guess -- I've only seen this a few times -- is that the string gradually wears a groove into the saddle, and when that groove becomes too flat, and loses its break angle -- then you end up with a dead string. I haven't run into this issue in quite a while now, but if I do, I'm going to try lightly ramping the slots with a nut file and seeing if that solves the problem. Thanks for the comment! Again...I've been thinking of pulling this video down, but my take is that anyone who's actually interested enough in this stuff to do a deep dive will read through the comment section. I'm still undecided. I haven't had any issues with snagging or anything noticeable *personally* any of the times I've done this, but it is something to look out for. Would you expect that to cause tuning instability, or what issue in particular?

[@DavideSchachterJazz]

This is terribly wrong my friend...

[@guitar_md]

Explanation? It's the only thing that will fix dead/muted strings from the contact point on the saddle being too wide. Seen and fixed this many, many times

[@DavideSchachterJazz]

@@guitar_md If the break angle with the tailpiece is correct you're not going to have muted strings. If you have muted or dull strings is because the break angle is too shallow. Shaving off the top of the saddle the way you're doing is reducing the mass and the string will resonate way less than with a thicker flatter saddle. Everyone is looking for vintage saddles/bridges just because of the shape the old saddles were made. It might be easier to intonate a pointy saddle but still a fat saddle does intonate very well besides a very pointy one like those you are making are easy to make the wound string buzzing if the notch is not done at the right angle. So yes intonation could be easier but you're killing the tone by shaving off the mass where the string sits.

[@guitar_md]

​@@DavideSchachterJazz I've worked on guitars where increasing the break angle did not correct the issue, and I only resort to re-pointing the saddles when this is the case. This isn't extremely common, but it does happen, and the opposite turned out to be true: re-pointing the saddle dramatically improves the tone and takes it from dull/lifeless to ringing clear as a bell. Keep in mind that as strings wear, the grooves they dig into the saddles are not how they came from the factory. I agree with you, it's just that when grooves get so deep that the contact point is increased far beyond where it's supposed to be, correcting it can dramatically improve the tone. Whether there's a point where it's gone too far or not, I can't say. I understand what you're saying. I personally haven't noticed any issues or loss of tone from giving saddles a thinner contact point, but it also isn't something I do unless there's a problem that requires it. As a general rule it's best to do the minimum required for the job. I should have clarified in this video that I'm advocating *restoring* saddles to their original profile if they have unnaturally deep grooves and are having issues as a result, or in the case of the Gretsch this video was based on, the replacement saddles are way too tall, and need to have deep notches cut in them to get the action where it needs to be, as a neck reset was not in the cards. But again, I do see what you're saying. I'm always open for doing things differently if it works better. Upon second thought, the most judicious approach in stubborn saddle cases could be back filing with a nut file to see if that alleviates the issue first. This particular job got in my head a bit as I put brand new saddles on a guitar for someone, set it up great, and they were not happy with the tone at all. They were only satisfied after I re-pointed them as I did in this video, with thinner contact points, whereupon they decided it sounded much clearer and then they were happy to take the guitar back and call it done. I also didn't tell them what I did or give them my theories about what the issue was, so it was unbiased. I wasn't sure if it was going to work so I only told them afterwards, since they were brand new saddles that I paid for to begin with and I removed the originals and had them in their original condition in a plastic bag. Appreciate the comment, gives me more to think about, as always. Again, I do know what you mean, and many modern saddles have been designed for the very purpose of maximizing the contact area of the string on the saddle, such as some of the Babicz designs with cam adjusters instead of set screws for the saddles. And they do sound phenomenal with lots of resonance and sustain. It would make sense that by making a really thin point under the string you'd affect the sustain/resonance. I suppose that can be a matter of taste as well, as you might get more high end/clarity with a thinner point at the expense of fullness/resonance. That might explain why that particular customer liked the sound of the guitar more after re-pointing the saddles, as it was very dark sounding to begin with.

[@guitar_md]

@@DavideSchachterJazz I'll also add I didn't try back filing the notches with a nut file to see if that corrected the issue. I've fixed plenty of nut/saddle buzzes by re-filing the slots properly, but I haven't tried it on dead sounding saddles that aren't buzzing. I'll give that a try in the future and see how that goes. You're affecting the contact area by angling the file anyway, same how nut slots are cut -- so it's possible that would correct it. Again, appreciate the thoughtful response and insights. I already made another video that I haven't published yet that's on a similar topic as this one, and I re-point the saddle the same way, with good results -- but now I'm going to consider what you've said and if I run into this issue again, I'll try back filing the saddle notches and seeing if that judicious approach can correct the problem first, without severely altering the contact area under the string. I'm always open to learning more and if there's something I'm doing in a sub-optimal way, I'll be doing it a better way tomorrow once I know better. Thanks again for the input and let me know any other thoughts you have!

[@DavideSchachterJazz]

@@guitar_md look I'm not a luthier but I had and wanted to learn these basic works so when I have a new bridge I don't need to go and pay somebody and having to tell him how I like things. I always encourage people to do their own set up personally...it's like sitting in your car and asking somebody else to adjust mirrors and stuff to your liking when it's much easier(with a little study and experience, and the right tools) to do that personally. I only speak by my own experience and don't want to teach anybody how to do their job because I'm just a musician not a luthier. When I notch my saddles I ALWAYS do it at an angle (as if you were slotting the nut) following the break angle and making a ramp so that the string won't buzz. If you don't follow this procedure you're going to have buzzes and tuning issues. I have the tendency to notch as little as possible and then if I don't hear the string sounding like a bell I pay more attention on the angle and dig a bit deeper. As final touch I check the radius of the slots with a radius gauge to make sure none of the notches is deeper than it should be.