Sagasu Running Shoe Talk - October 2024

[@michaelcaricoo]

Saving the video to dig into it on the treadmill later, but just wanted to pop in and leave and comment and say thanks for the stuff you do and for making the effort to have discussions with the viewers. I know it's probably exhausting but it's really appreciated because you don't see that much anymore from shoetubers as the gap widens between them and the audience

[@SagasuRunning]

I enjoy the dialog and the back and forth. It’s one of the aspects I enjoy about the channel. I learn a ton from the community. So it goes both ways, I hope.

[@timverkoyen8742]

So sad we Will not get your amazing analysis on the evo SL anytime soon 😢. Will keep my eyes out for everything you produce. Always top notch quality

[@SagasuRunning]

As soon as i can get a pair...I'll have them on the channel. From the reviews I've seen the shoe looks VERY promising...

[@Charlie-ww9mv]

Seeing my favorite channel uploaded after a hard interval workout 🔥

[@SagasuRunning]

I have a tough one the day before recording this...still feel it in the legs. This is the way. 🤙🏻

[@MidLifeRunner]

I love the 800m focus! I can’t wait to return to it. “Hmm what’s over there?” A PR !

[@SagasuRunning]

There the goal… but given I’ve never run these distances…. Everything is a PR weekly it seems. It’s more how low can I actually get.

[@MidLifeRunner]

@ that’s terrific . I meant wayyyyyy over there when you return to longer distances. How would you rate your mobility? My anterior pelvic tilt is out of control 🤣 I am going to spend this downtime dialing in nutrition, body composition and mobility.

[@SagasuRunning]

@MidLifeRunner Flexibility and mobility is always something I work on. Now they it’s finally cooling down I can spend more time on the yoga mat this fall/winter…. It’s much needed for me. Lots to work on. Longer distances… yup, someday. (Re)building the foundation as we speak, brick by brick.

[@PedalScience]

Good vid! Enjoyed the Topo and Altra information, glad you at least tried them on and shared your thoughts as its really hard to get first-hand / independent thoughts on these.

[@SagasuRunning]

Thank you for watching. 🤙🏻

[@OdanUrr87]

The more I run the more I realise the vital importance of recovery, especially having a proper night's sleep. The difference is night and day, no pun intended. As for the Evo SL, yeah, I also have little hope of it becoming available this year. The Rise released here a few months after your review, so I'd imagine the SL will release sometime around May-June next year. Meanwhile, the Peg 41 is slowly making its arrival, already spotted a couple of colorways (blueprint, black/white) on the Nike website so I hope it hits stores soon so I can try it out.

[@SagasuRunning]

Ya, super frustrating. You are in Uruguay, right? The way brands releases product in South America is so odd to me. At least here in Asia it KINDA makes sense given all the , let's call it "drama" in the region.

[@nolanparke765]

Trust me man you should be reviewing the zoom fly 6. You’ve reviewed so many brands super trainers, endorphin speed 4, Boston 12, Superblast. Nike FINALLY makes a good one and you ignore it? 😂 I don’t get it man I will add though good for you having some fun in training. Mixing trails with fast reps on the track sounds like a blast to me. I’m doing TONS of volume at threshold pace right now so quite different

[@SagasuRunning]

Yes, I did...but doing those reviews really informed my opinion on those types of shoes. Plus the emergence of non-plated performance trainers this year has really made a shoe like the ZF6 useless to me. Ascis has the Superblast and Hyper Speed that are better tempo shoes (depending on what you are doing/racing) over the Magic Speed...Nike has the Peg Plus which is much more capable at any distance and the RF4 for speed work. And yes...the mix of track workouts and trail runs is a blast...they really work well together.

[@joshvidetto9279]

I love the novablast 4 and the 5 looks like it will be good. I'm excited to try it

[@SagasuRunning]

Same… it’s always a shoe I look forward to now.

[@clinicare]

Great video, thank you. Would love your insight on the best quality running apparel. Tights/shorts/tops/layers

[@SagasuRunning]

I did a video on my favorite Nike pieces here; Nike Running Outerwear - My favorite all season running outerwear and layers. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oamZaYeOlrCtaas I mostly still run in those pieces. Though I also am a big fan of Tracksmith's Van Cortlandt line due to the fabric. Those pieces are staples in my running. I also do most of my running and hiking in Patagonia's trail running layering system (they really only have one).

[@justoutlaw6423]

Love Shoe talk videos. Thanks

[@SagasuRunning]

I’m glad these are enjoyable. I enjoy making them. Thank you for watching. 🤙🏻

[@antic4312]

I know you’re not a big “super trainer” fan but the zoom fly does feel really good. It has a similar feel to the alphafly in the heel but with a really flat forefoot platform that feels pretty traditional. The whole shoe is also pretty flexible, and you still get some ground feel in the forefoot. It’s really going to work as a training companion to the alphafly since it has similar ride dynamics with a similar level of protection for long runs and long tempo workouts, but it’s still going to let you train and get stronger in the process, and be way more durable. I do think the Pegasus plus is going to be the better option for shorter, faster workouts and uptempo daily runs. Perhaps someone who prefers the vaporfly as their race shoe will prefer the peg plus as their tempo trainer, and someone who prefers the alphafly will prefer the zoom fly.

[@SagasuRunning]

With all that being said. I still don’t need it. If I was entering a marathon build tomorrow (I’m not) I’d buy a fresh pair of Peg41s and a fresh pair of AF3s and basically run both into the ground for the build and race in a fresh pair of AF3s. The AF3 has great durability and I’d have no issue with it for the build. I do agree that the Peg Plus is better for someone who prefers the Vaporfly and likely training/racing the half and under. I’d have no issue taking the Peg Plus on a 25k tempo run… but anymore than that I’m going to do it in my race shoe anyway.

[@MyFatAdaptedLife]

16:00 100% agree that Altra has not been the same since the VF Corp buyout. My first few training blocks were in Altra. But since the buyout, I've stayed away.

[@SagasuRunning]

Altra never had the best materials or quality…. But it’s shockingly low in 2024.

[@MyFatAdaptedLife]

@SagasuRunning I was an Altra purist, so this recent push of 4 mm drop shoes left me uninterested. I get the whole competitiveness angle, but they swayed away from their base.

[@SagasuRunning]

@Wings_nut I know there was a big deal for a lot of Altra runners… but the quality and engineering left the company long before that.

[@MyFatAdaptedLife]

@@SagasuRunning 💯

[@Actae0n7]

I don't know man, I really love my Escalante 4 - quality seems great after 800 km... (RunRepeat seems to confirm my subjective experience, so I'm honestly curious where the quality concerns originate from.)

[@capeflatterytrail]

It's refreshing for someone to be talking about training for an 800 versus all the 5k, Half, Marathon efforts. Have you ever tried some speed training with a light weighted vest? I think there is some evidence they can help with your absolute speed by increasing vertical force production. Unlike sleds, they don't help as much with acceleration.

[@SagasuRunning]

Nope. It’s all new to me. I’ve only ever focused on half and full prior. So this is all new territory for me. I’m enjoying all the learning. Notes on the best, though that might be more than I do. I will read about it though. It’s all fascinating to me. Even true sprinting mechanics and power generation (100s).

[@TimGrose]

I always thought weighted vests were more associated with sprinters. 800 is a "fast" event for sure but still for me very much an endurance event rather than a "sprint".

[@capeflatterytrail]

@@TimGrose I think the 800 is an interesting event in that it includes 400 runners sliding up and milers and other distance runners sliding down. I heard one trainer say it's one of the most evenly matched races in that anything shorter favors the sprinter, and anything longer favors the distance runner. Anyway, I know even milers work on turnover and top speed, so I think it would be relevant for some workouts with very short speed work.

[@TimGrose]

@@capeflatterytrail I think it is more even than it was in that respect. I grew up wanting to be like Coe & Ovett and although they of course had a fair turn of speed were always 800/1500 runners as was nearly every other top UK 800m runner back then. Even the ones that weren't great at 1500 like say Tom McKean weren't really 400m runners either. I guess in the women Keely Hodgkinson is more of a 400/800 runner but that is partly as don't think she has ever done a 1500 at elite level and I think she will surely turn out to be a better 1500m runner than a 400m one where she isn't really good enough even to make our 4x400 squad.

[@capeflatterytrail]

@@TimGrose Thank you for mentioning it. I just watched the 1980 Olympics 1500 Meters on KZbin--thrilling. If you want to go deeper into the vault, take a look at Dave Wottle in the 1972 Munich Olympics 800. I'm guessing you enjoyed the Hocker/Kerr/Nuguse barn burner in the Paris Olympics this year.

[@klipk7296]

It's interesting to hear your perspective on the recovery effects of different race foams on your legs. Does the Superblast also give your legs a rough time or is it just the Metaspeed? Also would be interesting to hear where Puma and Saucony fit in with regards to their racing foams

[@SagasuRunning]

the FfBlast+ in the SB/SB2 seems to mitigate FFTurbo/FFTurbo+ for me, so they did fine. The Metaspeeds though… destroy me, though the Paris series is a little better. Saucony foams are ok for me, about the same as LSP. Puma foams are similar. Though I haven’t tried Puma’s latest A-TPU foam.

[@calvinorton4862]

For a bunch of reviewers Zoom Fly 6 has come out as a very good super trainer. Would have loved your take on it. Planning on running some half marathons next year and I am considering using it as a trainer for the alphafly.

[@SagasuRunning]

Again…. Not a shoe I need or ever plan on running in. It’s rather train in the Peg Plus or the AF3… as far as I’m concerned a “super trainer” is unnecessary. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@Thetcart360]

Will you be testing the brooks glycerin max?

[@SagasuRunning]

Nope. 1000% not a type of shoe I want to run in. I did try it on and can say it’s as ridiculous as it looks and is a clear sign of intent for where Brooks is headed.

[@mauri.garzon]

I am waiting for that dragonfly 2 review! One of my possible spikes for 2025, please compare it with the Adidas one! Greetings from 🇦🇷

[@SagasuRunning]

I can't find Adidas spikes here... at all. Next time I'm in Japan I'm going to look for them, but it will likely be off season for spikes so they will be few and far between. I want to cover their middle distance spike... but it's about finding a pair.

[@TimGrose]

Great to hear you have sourced some Dragonfly 2 spikes. As previously discussed I found the Dragonfly 1 much more appropriate for me as a somewhat slower than I used to be M55 runner than the Victory 1 for anything 800m and upwards even though I would probably say the Victory 1 was faster for me doing just a few say 400m reps. So be interested in the 2 comparison. I have the Dragonfly 2 and albeit limited usage did not find them much different to the 1 but passed on the Victory 2. Zoom Fly 6 I held off as found the 3 and 5 pretty awful and even for us Nike "fans" that is saying something. Just watching a review of it where it was stated as "hyped". Funny but do not see that all. If there is any "hype" at the moment it is the Evo SL and seeing them on eBay close to £300 for a seemingly "sort of" Adios Pro 3 without any rods. I think I will probably pick up a ZF6 but like you I just reach for one of my many Vaporflys or AP3 for fast days which all have lasted as well as any other shoe I have. Plus in my size "super" trainers aren't super light although at least the ZF6 this time does at least seem close to the Speed 4.

[@SagasuRunning]

I recently rewatched your DF2 first run video. I'm curious how the VF/AF - DF/V comparison works between these two platforms. I'm also looking for a little bit more mellow spike for workouts, allowing me to save the V2 for the key workouts and time trials I'll do after the 12 weeks. I'll have a video this weekend talking a bit more about this in a more macro sense... I ran ALOT in the ZF3, like alot...this was still back in NYC when the VF1 still felt too fragile...I never loved it but it did the job (like the stiff brick it was). I had the ZF4 but didn't think much of it and by then was converted to just training in a VF2. Never bothered with the ZF5 and the story will be the same with the ZF6. I can't imagine how much the ZF6 weighs in your size.

[@TimGrose]

@@SagasuRunning "Sadly" that was my first and only run in them - well save for a 4x100 leg later in the same meet! Not my event for sure :) I'll aim to give them another go before too long for sure but right now spikes seem the last shoe I need to be wearing with dodgy Achilles. Did at least manage a "sort of" road interval session today in VF2 however. The Dragonfly ought to be that "mellow spike" or at least mellower - a spike is a spike after all. Not a shoe for a shakeout run for sure even if on a track :) I think the ZF6 in my UK 13/US 14 is going to be about 320-330g which is basically more or less what the Speed 4 and Peg Plus is. So not too bad as things go. The ZF5 was more like 380g or so and certainly in brick territory. These spikes are the only shoes I have under 200g and perhaps the only type of shoe where I feel no disadvantage in weight. Oh and speaking of NYC I made an off the cuff remark in my latest vid that in some ways I feel the New York Marathon is the most prestigious of the marathon majors. A commentator took umbridge with this and favoured Boston. Will see what the vibe is this weekend.

[@SagasuRunning]

@TimGrose I really look forward to comparing the DF2 and V2… for me, it’s one of my most anticipated “vs” videos.

[@FelipeMarinPerucci]

Thanks for this! Did you (or will you) cover the Superblast 2? The other day I tried the Alphafly - bouncy, but felt the heel a bit unstable, is the vaporfly better in that respect? Cheers! And keep the videos!

[@SagasuRunning]

I did my initial impressions when it came out months ago with multiple "vs" videos. Look back a few months on the channel and you'll see them. Lots of Superblast 1 content before that.

[@Chungdol]

I copy you like a copy cat, besides I hope for a good deal on the Victory 2 to blackfriday... And oh boy, my first REAL hard intervals after Berlin Marathon and my body hurt all over the place... I love the feeling you did something, a quality workout. And oh wonder if you really push and not just "so I did my intverals today" I was running 3 rounds on 194bpm EASY PEACY (32yo) didnt even feel that difficult. Pushing that v02max. The point about quality over quantity really changed my view of running. The volume will come from alone. I dont know about the Zoom Fly 6, I have seen many who say its a plated superblast so also for easy runs.

[@SagasuRunning]

"plated superblast so also for easy runs" SOOOOOOOO much wrong with that statement, like everything wrong in running right now is encapsulated in that statement. 😤 Intervals are great. I'm REALLY digging the work. I agree, you feel like you did something, and did something hard. The best part is week on week they build on one another. 194bpm... damn...my max HR is around that, but that is like MAX...more than 10-20secs of it I'm going to pass out max...

[@Chungdol]

@@SagasuRunning Do you measure with belt or with your watch? Since I switched to the belt my datas for intervals and threshhold runs are way way more realistic. In the performence diasgnostic my second ventilatory threshhold was at 179bpm... and I was all the time "HOW" that felt so hard with my watch, but just because the watch was so slow in adapting and gettiingthe peaks. Since I use the belt its far more accurat. My garmin app correct my max bpm to 202 after that interval :D About the Zoom Fly 6. I saw the first reviews it STILL uses a layer of EVA foam... and with that its out for me. There is no way that I would grab this shoe over the Peg plus in any case.

[@SagasuRunning]

I use a watch. In my cycling days I used a chest strap but found Apple Watch is basically the same data. Coros and Garmin were a bit off, but not massively. The wrist HR is close enough for me, the bigger deal is that it’s consistent run to run over the years for me. I don’t so much care for the exact HR number, it’s more that I can glance at the number and know where I am. I don’t train to HR anymore, I use it as a metric to gauge my level of effort at a given pace, similar to how I look at power. As for the ZF6…I don’t know why people are surprised about the carrier foam in the ZF6…Nike has been VERY clear it is there. The surprise is that it is SR-02 foam, what Nike uses for their budget and casual shoes, definitely NOT a performance material. Why it’s not Cushlon 3.0 or even ReactX is beyond me. SR-02 is about the cheapest foam Nike uses in any shoe.

[@Chungdol]

@@SagasuRunning Is it that super squishy foam they used in the Nike Joyride series and as carrier for the ZF5 (honestly I liked the Joyride for casual wear lol)

[@SagasuRunning]

@Chungdol Yup, same foam. Zero performance properties.

[@TolunayOrkun]

Your videos about track spikes made me want to try spikes. I have never ran in spikes before but during this video I checked Running Warehouse and the luck is that they have Dragonfly Spike (older model) just in my size (US10) for $80.I think if RWH has them in stock, I scored a gread bargain (50% off) and I hope they fit. I don't have any reference to go with. I just wanted to feel the experience running in spikes and perhaps they might even help improve my gait and running economy.

[@SagasuRunning]

Those will be fun and a great deal. I went TTS but remember, no socks with spikes. They should fit like a sock. Much smaller and tighter than a road shoe.

[@paullow123456]

Great video as usual. I would like your opinion/recommendation. I’m about to run my first 100k in two weeks, first attempt. My FM time is 4:30, HM 1:45. Can I go with carbon shoes for this 100k or should I just use max cushion? My plan is to finish the 100k in 12H. What would you recommend?

[@SagasuRunning]

I’d recommend whatever is more comfortable…. Though I would lean something not super shoe… not saying not plated, but not an aggressive shoe intended for road racing. Maybe a little rocker to help turn over the legs when they need help. Probably not any max stack trainers as the weight penalty will hit hard in the late hours/kms of the race. Though I personally probably start with the Asics Superblast 2 (not due to its “max” status but more the stiffness and support in the platform, minus a plate) or the Mount to Coast R1/R1R since that shoe is literally designed for road ultras. I’s see how either of those work on 40k+ training runs and work from there if neither are right.

[@paullow123456]

@ thank you for the great advice. Just too bad SB2 is hard to get now. Oh well need to get another shoe then, will keep in mind your comment on weight penalty from max foam shoes.

[@SagasuRunning]

@@paullow123456 Good luck in your search and your goal.

[@01lsw]

I can't believe you covered Topo but really glad your feedback aligns with with mine. I hate it. Both the midsole and the shoe box is so hard and a few of my toe nails got bruised. I was tempted to try it a few years ago because it is a gift and the shoe box is wide. Even I tried to use it as just a pair of walking shoes. I still feel totally uncomfortable. Awful shoes.

[@SagasuRunning]

I did notice they ran short too…. Which is an issue with most “natural shaped” shoes. So it can be an issue. I just couldn’t get over the fit, there is what really did them in for me. Shockingly bad…

[@RowOfMushyTiT]

Ye, i once got excited to try Altra and Topo, and then I tried them on...

[@SagasuRunning]

Queue the “sad horns” music…

[@RowOfMushyTiT]

@@SagasuRunning Haha, true

[@willineufeld7162]

For those people that don't have the budget for a super shoe the super trainers are a good alternative since they are also more durable.

[@SagasuRunning]

I get that… but also it depends on priorities. Maybe you don’t need a 3 or 4 shoe rotation… maybe a 2 shoe rotation with a good trainer and good super shoe will do. Super shoes have a lot of durability in 2024. But I get it.

[@07Corcaigh]

The criticism of the topo fit is understandable but not a deal-breaker for me. I am looking forward to trying out Inov8 shoes though. I don't have wide feet, just looking for toe room

[@SagasuRunning]

Inov8 has a nice solution for thet with their last. Even though I spent years in barefoot shoes, I’m not a fan of wide toe boxes for the sake of it. It needs to be done right. Inov8 has a nice middle ground in fit between performance and toe room.

[@07Corcaigh]

@SagasuRunning I just heard there's a new Trailtalon coming out so waiting for more info on those👍

[@SagasuRunning]

@07Corcaigh There are a bunch of new Inov8 shoes and gear coming. I’ll be covering a bunch of the relevant items for my running. Stay tuned.

[@brianreiter5572]

Apropos of shoes you can’t get in Taiwan: I told you that David Roche was going to use the AP4 for Javalina but he changed his mind and went with the ASU and said it was the right decision in retrospect because some of the trail required “more athletic moves” than you would want to do in a road super shoe. And he won in record heat.

[@SagasuRunning]

I saw that… was following it.

[@Gentlysix]

As someone who does all workouts on the track, I am not sure what to get. My current shoe is ASICS metaspeed sky+ and I agree that they do not help with recovery. I found both dragonfly 2s and streakfly for around 95 dollars in my size and I have no idea what to get. What do you think?

[@SagasuRunning]

Do ever workout in spikes or prefer to workout in flats? I get you are doing it all in MSS+...but do you just want one shoe to do it all? What workouts are you doing? Do you race? if so whats your distance?

[@Gentlysix]

@ thanks for the reply. I should’ve mentioned that i also have the Boston 12 and Novablast 4, I sometimes use the bostons but they are very heavy. As for working out I have a pair of xc spikes that I sometimes use for track workouts and I prefer them to the MSS+. My workouts tend to be anywhere from 200s to 1k reps, usually short distance. I do race, I do 5k and xc and come track season I will race 1500m. I also got VP2 but couldn’t try them yet, will probably use those for 5k road

[@SagasuRunning]

VP2 = VF2 (Vaporfly 2)?

[@Gentlysix]

@ yes my bad

[@SagasuRunning]

@ Honestly, you could go a bunch of ways. I think you need both the DF and SF. if you are going to race a 1500, you need a proper spike, not a XC spike. Being able to train in flats for 200/400s is a must too. So having both, and the VF2 for road racing and a good trainer (NB4), you are all set for anything.

[@alb.1911]

Once you do the speed work, your marathon pace will be like jogging… 😜

[@SagasuRunning]

It certainly feels like it right now… definitely for anything under 400…. Even into 1k MP feels like that…. More than that… that’s another story at the moment. 😂

[@alb.1911]

@@SagasuRunning so you target in the next weeks is 200mt at world record marathon pace: 2:43 😉 Don’t skip the gym.

[@SagasuRunning]

@alb.1911 haha. If only the race was 2-5 meters long… I’m golden…. Hahaha. 😂 I’m not a gym person but I do do a lot of kettlebell work as well as resistance bands and body weight work.

[@metalsadman]

should've just bought 1 pair of novablast 4 instead of 2 now that the 5 is about to be released lmao, hard to pass when it was on sale and in the colorway that I prefer. nike zoom fly 6 is on the way, though I'm still injured probably for a month so that will be kept in its box when it arrives :/

[@SagasuRunning]

Seems like the NB5 will be very softer and a bit of a return to the bounce of the NB1/2 some liked...so it might be the one for you.

[@metalsadman]

@@SagasuRunning i don't know now, nb4 was me trying non plated again, and looks like it's not working for me I attribute my injury in this shoe it's the only pairs I was running the week before my 10k race which I already felt some pain in my left foot, I finished the race but it aggravated the injury, either it's a plantar fasciitis or a stress fracture will have it checked, but yeah I'm gonna go back to my puma deviate nitro 2s also with the new zoom fly 6 when it's healed hopefully for not that long, been depressing since I planned to do my 1st half and full marathon next year. training put on hold :/. _From __#PureTuber_

[@SagasuRunning]

I’d try to find the root of the pain and address it. Instead of masking it with a plated shoe. I’ve been there and it only makes it worst. If it’s PF there are plenty of things you can work on AND a less cushioned shoe with my natural flex is part of strengthening your feet. If it’s a stress fracture you need to figure that out and rest it. That takes time. Masking it whatever it is with either a highly cushioned shoe or a plated shoe is just the way to ultimately making it all worst…

[@Fozzee.1970]

Don't think the Rival Fly 4 is sold in the UK. I bought the Zoom Fly 6 and it's a good shoe. Great for tempo runs. The other Nike dailies are too firm for me.

[@SagasuRunning]

It’s so odd. The UK gets every Nike shoe in every colorway, seemingly first… except the RF4. Though I don’t think the RF4 is out in all of the EU/UK at the moment. It has always gotten later release there for some reason.

[@JohnBirtchetSharpe]

I am not a fan of the super trainer either .. pretty much for the reasons you state. I do not need it; I can pretty much put any paces I can reach in a pair of hyperion 2's at £140 and meets my requirement for threshold and tempo. PS I have morton's toe so I have to go half a size up as foot shape does not fit my foot 😉

[@SagasuRunning]

I still am looking for a pair of H2s...they are a rare shoe here in Taiwan. It does seems like a very capable shoe. The Peg Plus fills that roll for me (which due to the toebox taper would be a good option for Morton's toe). I even like the ES4, even though it is plated, it's flexible enough you are getting a good amount of training stimulus...but the shoe would still work without the plate.

[@phinhowe]

What shoes do you like on your trail runs?

[@SagasuRunning]

Currently I’m rotating the Nike Peg Trail 5 and the Inov8 Trailfly. But the Nnormal Kjerag and Tomir 2.0 have been my go-tos for the past year or more.

[@hxduck]

Any new Streakfly2 news?

[@SagasuRunning]

Nothing new to report since I last mentioned them on the channel.

[@i.p2088]

Topo company was also bought by someone..

[@SagasuRunning]

Oh man…. The Designer Brands death sentence. At least with Saucony and Wolverine Worldwide there is some type of competency in the athletic space with other brands…. But DSW is just down market casual shoes, and bad ones at that. 🤦🏼‍♂️ (I Googled this, thanks for the heads up.)

[@pinty2109]

Dragonfly 2s or Vic 2s?

[@SagasuRunning]

Not sure yet...need to run in the DF2...though I think they will fill different roles, with much overlap. Stay tuned in November.

[@pinty2109]

@ will do, trying to make my decision before track. I run the 1500 mostly but I can go up or down pretty well.

[@SagasuRunning]

If I was actually looking at a racing season for the 800 or 1500…. I’d go V2 with no hesitation. Even though I haven’t run in the DF2 yet I know the V2 will be the more aggressive and faster option. One (of many) reasons I want a pair of DF2s is to have a more mellow spike to train in and save the V2 for key workouts and the time trials I’ll be doing eventually.

[@pinty2109]

@@SagasuRunning sounds good. I already have a very aggressive foot landing. Do you think I’ll be able to bring these up to 5k?

[@SagasuRunning]

I don’t see why not. Nike pros seem to be favoring the V2 for most things form the 800 to the 5000. Sigma Hassan races the 10000 in them. The V2 is the prefered spike over the DF2 this generation. I’ve not done a straight 5000 yet in the V2s but over a multiple 200/400 workouts I’ve done 5-7k in the V2s and have had no comfort or foot issues. They definitely have the comfort for distance running (sockless too).

[@therunophil]

availability of the Rival Fly 5 isn't that good in Europe, not available at Nike, on 3rd party sites I only saw a few v3 ones. I had never heard of it before your review, but I personally would rather take a more premium supertrainer anyways, though I do see the niche for someone with preferences like you Chris.

[@SagasuRunning]

The Peg Plus is a more capable all rounder anyway, for shorter speed work to marathon training... So it's the better option for more people. The RF4 is very niche...as are my tastes in running shoes (I know). 🤙🏻

[@caseysmith544]

Good, I hate the maximum super trainer movement and if you need a shoe like this go with a model that is a high shoe or your super racers provided, they are a more durable brand.

[@SagasuRunning]

Max max max everything. 2025 is only going see more “max” across all brands…

[@caseysmith544]

@@SagasuRunning The worst nike shoe was the Nike zoom 100K a racing model made to last only 100k/62 miles, but for most people only lasted up to 2 marthon distances of 52.44 miles or 84k of running at most. The main issue on the Nike zoom 100k was how unstable the models were and how some runs had poor thick seams on the odd mesh foam upper. The Nike zoom 100k came mainly in orange but could find in royal blue as well sometimes Now besides the okay price for what you got, the best thing I had ever seen with this model was people who used some kind of wide cart tire cut to fit for the sole glued to use as a racing trail/cross country flat and a pair with a flexible rubber glue/Shoe Goo on the sole for road running. Nike made so many pair of this model during its main run you could buy the Nike zoom 100k from when model came out up to mid 2010's to about 2014 before you could no longer find the model online from retailers finnaly using up thier stock by sellers on places like Amazon or sports only big box stores online shops.

[@tadejdanev5030]

send me a pair of SUPERBLAST 2 ;)

[@SagasuRunning]

If you were Size 9 US and I didn't need my pair for comparisons and vs videos next month...I'd send you my pair. It's a shoe I won't likely be running in anytime soon. I just don't need it.

[@tadejdanev5030]

@@SagasuRunning hehe, thanks....i'm EU 45, think it's 10,5/11 US? ;)

[@alb.1911]

Thanks for not covering the Zoom Fly 6, they looks like a plastic brick 😭🤦🏻‍♂️. Worst looking shoes of the year for Nike 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@SagasuRunning]

It’s not the most attractive shoe, for sure. I have little faith in a ZoomX/SR-02 foam combo considering how ZoomX/Cushlon 3.0 worked in the Vomero.

[@therapygrind]

The Zoom Fly 6 Eliud Kipchoge is being released in 2 days, it looks down the middle & standard to me. Besides, that Nnormal shoe Sagasu featured a couple days ago has the ugliest shoe of the year award all locked up! Don't be surprised of the ZF6 is selling for $119 on Nike's site come Black Friday, suddenly it will get a whole lot prettier.

[@SagasuRunning]

@therapygrind The Kipchoge cooorway this year is a great idea (the red Iten soil) but poorly executed. But ya the ZF6 is a rough looking shoe. What was the Nnormal shoe?

[@RowOfMushyTiT]

@@SagasuRunning Maybe you can weigh in on this, as most reviewers seem to think the Zoomfly 6 is a top layer of ZoomX and SR-02 under the plate, but this makes no sense considering the construction of the Zoomfly 5, Zegama 2, etc. SR-02 is also not a performance foam it's just there as an outer layer. I wish Nike would improve their shoe descriptions and nerd-out a little bit - why no exploded diagrams or 3D animations?

[@SagasuRunning]

That’s exactly what it is…. And yes, it makes no sense. SR-02 is a heavy and dead foam used in their casual shoes. It has no place in a “performance” shoe. Cushlon 3.0 would have made some sense, but ReactX would have made more. Also, the construction has changed back to the pre ZF5, basically the same as a VF3, a plate sandwiched between two layers of foam. No more cores or recycled ZoomX. Super soft ZoomX over super firm ST-02 is a mess. Good thing there is a plate to support the ZoomX so it won’t get V17 issues. Also I agree with the details that Nike should provide in their shoes. They did a great jobs around the AF3 launch with details, exploded views, different angles, etc. but that’s been the only shoe that got that treatment.