Sailing the Unsailable! Flight control issues with my $3600 Foiling Moth (EP13)

[@MrPiu1990]

It is so great that you also show these not so good days. Makes you very authentic. Carry on!

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Thanks, I figure that showing the bad stuff also allows me to show the learning process im going through, which is the real story. I could just make nice little 3 minute videos of foiling in Instagram-perfect conditions but that’s not very interesting 😉 it also explains why I get so excited when things finally work!

[@carbonarne675]

@@TomStuchberySailing totally!

[@thomsonsails]

Yeah, what I was going to say. You gotta show the hard yards and what's involved in getting these things working.

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Yep, plenty of fiddling involved, but that’s what makes it rewarding!

[@V8JOHNNY]

Lysterfield Sailor. Keep up the great work mate. That Moth looks like a handful.

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Thanks, it was good to see all the Lysterfield people on the weekend! It is a handful when it’s broken!

[@heiltvilt]

Love your attitude and videos. One day ;) you will be flying around the other ones. Carry on⛵

[@TomStuchberySailing]

I’m glad you like it, I’m sure after a bit of work with the dremel and the 3D printer I can get it working! 😀

[@finndawgy]

Another great video at sugarloaf! Looking forward to seeing the moth you recently bought on the lake! Thanks Tom

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Thanks Finn, this was a particularly brutal day, which could have been awesome if the boat held together. I won’t be copying this pushrod system on the new boat!

[@carbonarne675]

And I love your "let's fix the problem approach in the same video! Also all the cuts and text is so much mork!

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Yes, the editing on this one was pretty brutal, took me 3 days (plus the week of boat work to make the video)! I’m glad you understand the struggle 😀

[@carbonarne675]

@@TomStuchberySailing ohhh boy and how I understand! I have to get better at filming and editing as well... It's hard to keep pushing when the friends tell you to stop but you know the upsides

[@carbonarne675]

There are plenty of gift wrapping band tape stuff tapes without glue. They are perfect for wrapping round things. Love your story!

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Good idea!

[@carbonarne675]

@@TomStuchberySailing oh and thanks for watching my videos! I'll continue in German for now sadly for you but if I move somewhere I'll switch back to English again

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Unfortunately I only remember one sentence in German from high school, “das ist mein hamburger!”. I can still appreciate your videos even if I don’t quite understand it!

[@bendago070]

I upgraded my Mach 2.3 to a 2.6. I found the key to wand/flap control was to minimise all pushrod play, take out any and all slop in the system. Makes the wand movement range as direct to the foil flap as can be. Then gearing and ride height will work much better! Good luck on your journey, half the fun is working this stuff out!

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Thanks, it is amazing what even the tiniest bit of slop can do! I’m currently at a regatta, going to go on a slop-hunting mission in the morning!

[@nskz]

Nice work thinking through the issues Tom, there is nothing harder to sail than a Moth with a non working control system. That whole bell-crank system, I assume to get around the mast stump, is just a disaster, too much potential for slop/binding/play, like Bugs says just go a straight rod. I run that on my Mach2 and it's flawless. Like I said in your last video, when you get it all back together check your flap range relative to wand range. This is effectively your gearing and you probably want ballaprk 12-14mm at the back of the flap over the wands entire range. The 'ride height' effectively moves where this flap range occurs relative to wand position.

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Yep, I tried to go around the mast stump but it’s just no good, even when it is kinda working (compared to my old boat where it went straight through). The multi tool will be coming out shortly and it’s all coming out! I have the standard bugscam bellcrank so it should have the right flap range, but I will double check when it’s back together 😀

[@oxopower]

Hi man, great video and great sailing. There’s a one design class that’s really similar to the moth, you might be able to find some good base settings there. It’s called the Waszp

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Thanks for the comment! Yes, I have lined up against the Waszp a couple of times. There’s also the new one called the Switch which looks very cool.

[@harrisonyoung3198]

😮Wow, some of those nosedives did not look like fun!😂 Hope to see you sailing soon! BTW, have you tried wing foiling? Can't wait for the next video!!!!❤

[@TomStuchberySailing]

They weren’t fun, mainly because the weather was so good and I missed out on a good day, but they weren’t as painful as the big one in episode 12! I haven’t tried wing foiling yet, it’s on the to-do list though. I saw that Ozone have made a new ram air dual skin wing called the fusion that looks really cool, so I’m following the developments as they come up!

[@Alex-zr7ge]

Just discovered your video, very nice, I was also a bit desparate when starting moth on mach2 but after redoing all system now everything is set perfectly and enjoyable. One question, I noticed you have 2 inversion on the connection between wand and foil. Why don’t you try a simple long rod directly connected ? Does the boat allow a straight line between wand and foil ?

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Thanks for the comment. I tried to go around the mast stump and compression strut in the foredeck to avoid drilling holes in things, but it didn’t work as you can see. I have ended up drilling through everything, new video showing that should be out tomorrow 😉

[@Alex-zr7ge]

@@TomStuchberySailing great !! Also did you check your relative angle for both foil ? Here my setup : Main foil is 1 degree in front hole (lift) Rudder is between -3 degrees and 2 degrees The measurement is done compare to the hull near the main foil Then when flying upwind you have to add lift on the rudder When downwind you need inverted lift on the rudder to avoid the bow to go down during the gust, you also need to reduce the wand when downwind cause you are not sailing up heal and then not charging the foil, boat will automatically goes up when downwind so clearly reducing wand length and put negative on the rudder will sort issu you are facing !

[@Alex-zr7ge]

@@TomStuchberySailing last but not the least For the direct connection between wand and foil with compression rod try to keep the the rod inside a very well adjusted tube, if not the rod will wave inside the tube resulting a loss of information like a spring effect or/and grip du to high friction when wand is activating fast in compression It is something to keep in mind cause it is not easy to réalise while sailing

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Yes, all very good points! 😀 I did adjust the AoA in episode 10 when I swapped from the Macita to the Mach 2.3 HL, I think it’s about 1.8 degrees positive. I have ended up fitting a 7mm ID tube and I’m using a 1/4” pushrod, which is much better as you suggest. All will be revealed in episode 14 as soon as I get a moment to edit it!

[@dsmith657]

I'd agree with much of the first comments , @nskz. I have a mach 2.3 with 2.4 bowsprit. I'd call that water your sailing on flat. It seems to me you need more gearing. Also looks like the wand should flick fwd more because it came out the water. I suspect your sailing too bow up. Machs go better slightly bow down. That said I find to get on the foils in those conditions (your a big guy) it is best in Hull mode to raise the bow with rudder and sit forward (it looks like your too far aft most of the time) then as bow lifts you need to rapidly wind rudder lift on so that lifts stern. Sort of how a plane takes off. I find on my mach that the wand length adjustment is more useful than the ride height. Remember gearing increases as you shorten the wand. I think on the Mach some sort of nonlinear connection system is really needed. What I mean by this is , near neutral it needs more gearing but as it nears the limit less. So that max flap movement is not exceeded. Regard your tacking and gybing. On the tacks you are moving too late with rudder on. Ie you need to move much more to the otherside with no rudder movement. As the rudder is applied the boat needs to be level or nearly. If bow goes down as you tack then you've got too much heel as rudder vertical acts like a flap. On the foil gybe you attempted . You were round on the foils but then failed to head up to get the power on (and you needed to head up a LOT). That is why after the gybe you fell in to the windward side. It's crucial that you watch the horizon as your gybing , not say one or two lengths fwd at the water.

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Thanks for the detailed comment, most of the issues you observed were from the broken pushrod pivot I found at the end of the video, so I had no flap movement for most of the video, so the bow up thing would have been me using the rudder to put more AoA on the main foil to get the boat out of the water. Interesting that you use the plane taking off method to take off, I was doing that on my old boat but then I read the how too guide on the mach2 website and they reckon that you should have full bow down on the rudder to generate maximum lift across both foils. I normally just have the rudder somewhere in the middle as I haven’t figured out which way is better yet. Thanks for watching! 😀

[@dsmith657]

I found that full on rudder in Hull mode causes the boat to nose dive. Needed to get rescued once as could not get back to the harbour because I too read those Mach comments. I think those mach comments might apply to older boats with perhaps less rudder lift. Try it in Hull mode some time. : head up a bit more and wind rudder full on to full off and see what happens. If as bow lifts and you heel to windward manfoil tends to stall than more rudder is needed as bow lifts. I think I needed to do this more when using mach 2.3 high lift mainfoil.

[@carbonarne675]

That's super interesting to see my self that even withe a correct looking moth with all the parts in place and so on its still not working well... That downwind (or upwind?) In the last part of the video you ended up so frustrated was a good example.... It looked like everything was fighting each other... No stable flight hight

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Hi, thanks for the comments! I’ve watched a lot of your stuff, I really like what you do. Yes, the boat was very unhappy by the end, it’s amazing what one broken pushrod lever can do, I basically had zero flap control, so it wouldn’t take off until about 12 knots boatspeed, then it would just keep going up. When everything’s working I can take off doing about 8.8-9.2 knots, so it makes a big difference! I’ll cut this system out this week and put in something a bit better, I have some ideas to try 😉

[@carbonarne675]

@@TomStuchberySailing first time I have sailed a moth it was so amazing, I can just imagine how it must feel when nothing work... And at the time you had no idea why...! Can't wait for the solution. And I watched you video instead of 4wd247 or an AdamLZ vid in my short time of the day I watch KZbin! Really like what you do!

[@TomStuchberySailing]

When nothing works it is kinda amazing and terrifying all at the same time, with an underlying feeling of dread while you wonder if something expensive is broken! It means a lot that you chose to watch my little 350 sub channel instead of a 4WD channel with 1 million subs, thanks again!

[@carbonarne675]

@@TomStuchberySailing your welcome

[@dsmith657]

At about 19min 30 sec. I'd say you sailed out of the wind. The video shows you were on the edge of a gust but not in it. On a foiling boat its possible to go faster than the wind. So if your in a gust. Its possible to sail out if it and fall in to windward (again your a big guy). This is especially so on inland lakes as you seem to be sailing. Then as you sail out of gust, stop, gust catches up with you and bang your over again. Thinking, what the h*ll just happened there? Well that's foiling for you OK should have watched to then end as can see you got problems with linkage. Still in general comments above are valid

[@TomStuchberySailing]

Yep, this is a tricky spot particularly in that direction. I definitely wasn’t watching the breeze since I had my head in the boat trying to figure out what was wrong with the control system, but hopefully once it’s sorted I can chase the puffs up and down a bit better and keep the thing going, even with 122kg on the edge 😉