Saito FA-180 A Performance Run

[@iggi70]

Saito 180 is a BEAST. I bought one new Gold/Black box back in 2001. Just ran it today with Xoar 17x8 CoolPower 30% Heli fuel. It was on the first version H9 Ultra Stick 120, Red and White, the heavy one with solid tail. Saito would hover and unlimited vertical on that Ultra Stick. BEAST..!! I have a Sullivan Dynatron Super High-Tork with A FINER EDGE MFG Makita 18v adapter. No problem starting any of my engines.

[@stevebarr9604]

I did a little checking and I think it is a 30cc for the Saito 180! I'm sure it is a scary beast!

[@PetrincicBrosRC]

Hey David. I just see a warbird with this beast on in low passes. Oh yeah... Greetings to Florida my friend, Robert

[@stevebarr9604]

Those Saito engines always have started easy for me too! What size plane are they designed for? That's the same size prop I have been using on my zdz 1.20 gasser! I'm not sure how many CC's the zdz is but I think around 20!

[@guitarcleveland]

Does this engine use a lot of fuel quickly? Do you recommend the gas version over the nitro one?

[@harveynewman4333]

my asp fs 180 is in need of a very heavy prime,cold and scares the crap out of me trying to flip start.

[@stevebarr9604]

I know you don't like gas but I would like to find a used one and do a gas conversion! I've currently got 3 glow engines converted to gas with a glow plug ignition and 20 to 1 mixture and they are running better than the glow fuel did! It's not that I don't like glow fuel but gas is a lot cheaper and cleaner on the plane!

[@AerialPhotogGuy]

On large engines, I use a Milwaukee 18V drill with an aluminum adapter I made with a metal lathe, works great! I also use it on an OS 105 HZ Heli engine. I had trouble starting that engine even with a 180 Hobbico starter with a 4S Lipo. You can use a 4S Lipo as long as you don't run the starter for more than a few seconds at a time, I've been using a 4S Lipo on 12 volt starters for years with no damage to the starter. Just curious why you're using 5% nitro most of the time? Most all of the manufacturers say to run 10 to 15% nitro with pure synthetic oil, actually what they say is that a "blend of synthetic and castor is acceptable" and after speaking with a Saito Rep, pure synthetic is preferred, they also say "Not to use Pure Castor Oil" because it gums up the engine and causes too much carbon build-up. I haven't heard you say that you're using pure castor oil, just where you've added some to a blend to raise the overall content to 20% which should be more than fine. I saw the test you did using 3 fuels (5, 10 and 15% nitro) and the 15% clearly ran much better than 5 or 10% IMHO (according to your rpm results and idle stability). Is it that 5% is cheaper to run? A lot of the guys at our local field are using 20% Morgan (Cool Power) Heli fuel with 17% synthetic and after many seasons of running 17 to 18% synthetic oil rather than 20%, nobody has had any issues with not having the recommended amount of lubricant but to be honest, most of us are running our engines a little on the rich side which means that the engine is getting plenty of lubrication. Several of our members use 30% heli fuel with pure synthetic oil on their 4 strokes since they use 30% on their helis and don't want to bother with having two strengths of fuel to keep up with. No issues with 30% on Saito or OS 4 stroke yet. Most of the guys say they can't tell much difference as far as power but they do claim to have a more reliable and stable running engine. As I understand it, running 30% through an engine with a lower compression ratio isn't a real concern unless you over rev it. (I'm comparing the lower compression ratio of a 4 stroke to the compression ratio of a 2 stroke heli engine). OS states that a .004" (.2mm) head shim is required when running 30% nitro. This is why running castor oil is not recommended, castor oil causes carbon buildup and it wouldn't take very long to get more than a .004" layer of carbon that would result in an increase in the compression ratio. I'm just now getting into using 4 stroke engines so I'm wanting to research them before I get started. Thanks a bunch for the informative videos!! I know this video is a few months old but I pray your back is better now! I've had three major back surgeries with fusions and titanium rods so I know how when your back is in pain, it controls everything you do, it even controls your thoughts. :-( It's not easy to accept the pain as your new normal but it does get easier to deal with as time passes. Keep up the good work!

[@dmrcflyr2]

It has been my experience over 30 years that these engines do NOT require high amounts of nitro to run properly. 5% or FAI is much less expensive. The 'supposed' RPM gain by using high nitro is marginal at best. A properly tuned engine is better than force feeding it high nitro fuel to compensate for poor tuning. Run whatever you like, but I am sticking with my data and what fits my budget.

[@AerialPhotogGuy]

Apparently you see a need to get defensive! I wasn't attacking you or your video, I was asking why you prefer to run 5%, you answered my question by emphasizing "Budget"! I was also opening up a debate about what Saito recommends and what they do not recommend, it was not meant to undermine you or your work. It's clear that you only want followers and do not welcome anyone that wants to debate your methods. Again, I wasn't on the "Offensive" but after your response to me, I'm on the offensive now! In the video kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJSxo4OIaqeAiMU where you compared 3 fuels (5, 10 and 15%), from 5:49 to 6:00 minutes into the video, you state: "Morgan's Cool Power MV 4 stroke 15% fuel with pure synthetic oil in it, IT RAN THE BEST WITH THAT" (Your Words). You state in your response to me above "The 'supposed' RPM gain by using high nitro is marginal at best", in that same fuel comparison video, you posted the results of your own test showing where the engine ran 420 rpms faster on 15% than it did on 5%, On a vertical line going up, 420 rpms can make or break the climbout. Depending on the weight of the plane, that could be the difference between pulling through it and stalling so I respectfully disagree that it's "Marginal at Best". To most people, 420 rpms is pretty significant when it's needed. Why do you say "Supposed RPM Gain" when you are the one to demonstrate and state that it runs 420 rpms faster on 15% (when compared to 5%)? I never wrote anywhere that I/we don't know how to tune an engine so why attack myself and others at our field by stating that we're using a high nitro content to make up for not being able to tune an engine? You state that using high nitro is force feeding an engine in lieu of proper tuning, yet you state that the engine ran best on 15% in the referenced video above, well.....which is it? When you write a response, you might want to consider what parts are contradictory to your own previous words. You implied that we're too stupid to tune an engine. Why did you do that? This is the part that set me off! You don't know me or my friends so why accuse us of not knowing how to tune an engine? You say that you're sticking with your data but "YOUR" own data clearly shows that it runs better on 15%. You mention "Budget" again at the end of your response to me and that's fine, I respect that. I'm sure you spend a fair amount of money on fuel for these engine runs but you should keep in mind that most of us are looking for the best performance even if it costs a little more. If we can't afford a few extra dollars for 15% fuel over 5%, then we need to find a cheaper hobby!! Most of us in this hobby are wanting the best performance we can get while preserving longevity and that's why most of us are watching your videos. Now it appears that you aren't too concerned with providing unbiased information, we should simply do as you do, no questions asked. You mention in one of your other videos that you have an addiction to nitro engines but you can't afford them without selling other things, I suspect this behavior has forced you to buy the least expensive fuel possible. A bit of advice, if you can't come up with a good argument that goes along with your own previous words, maybe you should consider not saying anything at all! Or......a simple "I can't afford to buy 15% nitro" would have been all that needed to be said. At the end of my first response to your video, I wished you the best with your back. If I was attacking you, why would I post good wishes for you? BTW, do you think you sound cool by lowering your voice to get that "Frog" in your voice sound? Yeah, I've heard several sections of your other videos where your voice sounds normal, why not just be yourself? I still wish you and your back the best! Having been though major back surgeries and having to live with chronic back pain, I would never wish that on anyone! Have a great day!!

[@dmrcflyr2]

I intentionally do not advocate using this fuel or that fuel. My videos simply show the factual data recorded on that day and run. I let others decide for themselves what to run. I know what I run and want I want to spend on fuel.

[@taildragger1589]

Really wanted to thank you for your vids. Had a 15lb. bipe with a 120 that wasn't cutting it. you gave me all the info I needed to decide on the 180. Then when a found a bargain ($180) your readings showed me it's in good shape. I've got the same prop but 10% fuel and getting a peak of ~8400 and running it around 8100 at take off. Here's a vid link if you'd like to see it in action. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXe7dHaap7Z0nLc Cheers! Nick

[@dmrcflyr2]

Freaking awesome video. I commented on it! Thank you very much for the link. Subbed also.

[@jeffie8696]

I just got one of these for my 4Star120. I am also very intimidated by it but no more than my YS140Limited. LOL