Kaioken Piccolo - The Big Problem In Dragon Ball Z

[@SaiyanScholar]

Pick up RARE Dragon Ball Collectibles and more from ZenMarket using my sign up link: tinyurl.com/SaiyanScholar Your quick sign-up using my promo code 'SAIYANSCHOLAR' financially helps my channel. Thank you, Role Model!

[@yeikelamores6085]

What was not said was that Piccolo's power after the fusion was 1400000 and that the fusion with Nail Multiplied his power 5x?Its base power should be 280000

[@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336]

There’s actually a video where Laughing Stock Media addressed this topic of Piccolo with Kaioken, as he referenced Piccolo’s fight with Dr. Gero, where Piccolo revealed that all of the Z Fighters can magnify their base KI in one tremendous burst, right before the moment of impact.

[@devilmandiavolo2876]

I saw that video. While it was a good attempt at trying to explain that away, we all know that’s not the same as using Kaioken from a plot perspective

[@EndoScorpion]

Sure, Piccolo's statements kinda relate to how Goku used kaio-ken against Frieza on Namek, but it could also be related to the attacks Piccolo and Goku used against Raditz where ki projectiles amplified their power way beyond the users limits, as well as the fact the Earthlings could all raise and lower their PL at will. So instead of firing ki projectiles, or being fully powered up for the whole fight (using up stamina); they're just focusing their ki into their fists in bursts. It could go either way really. But if Goku was using kaio-ken x20 against Frieza after less than 6 months of knowing the technique, Piccolo having 4-5 years worth of training would be pushing the limits waaay beyond that.

[@FirstLast-wk3kc]

​@@EndoScorpionespecially since Picolo has regeneration!

[@rockk9753]

That was revealed since the Saiyan saga... They've been suppressing their power since the original dragon ball after they finish training with master Roshi, Krillin tells Goku not to go all out because they've become much stronger than they expected

[@rockk9753]

It's amazing that dragon ball doesn't have much more and the little that it does have people constantly get it wrong lol

[@kaydenedwarda]

Kaioken piccolo would lowkey be goated

[@mathematics557]

Factual 💯💯💯

[@takeruneverborn4740]

​@@mathematics557Big Green Going Crimson

[@ninedivines5374]

He'd be too op because of his regen if they took it realistically

[@ejayemike6541]

It would also make more sense that he could match second form Frieza with Kaioken if after fusing with Nail if he was around 500,000 instead and then doubling his power to 1 million to match Second From Frieza without straining his body. Instead of the fusion just being so unrealistically powerful when both Nail and Piccolo weren't even at 100,000 individually and yet they were unreasonably overpowered by just fusing alone and able to overwhelm Second Form Frieza.

[@Barisdagame]

Would've been dope asf for him to off frieza

[@devilshooter126m8]

Kaioken Piccolo vs 3rd form Frieza would have been Awesome

[@SoulToLose]

If you think about it, kaioken piccolo could've caused a huge problem in the Buu arc. I mean, Buu got all of the powers and knowledge from the people he absorbed, so imagine Buuhan dropping Kaioken on Vegito and closing the gap between them. Hell, that'd be a situation where Buu could probably push Kaioken to heights we've never seen because of the way he heals. Imagine him using a Kaioken x100, using it like it was nothing, and taking advantage of that amp to absorb Vegito instead of it being a desperation move.

[@PurpleMeaning-e3p]

@@SoulToLose I think it wouldn't be that a big of a problem if they made the self-harm potential exponencial compared to the power boost. That way, the Kaioken technique would impose a limit to even "immortal" beings, like Buu or fused Zamasu.

[@SoulToLose]

@@PurpleMeaning-e3p idk, I think Buu especially would be able to tank it. It's kinda described as excessive stress from the boost, and Buu barely seems to feel pain at all, muscle aches wouldn't really be a problem for a gumball monster. Then again, I could always be wrong, this is just my interpretation.

[@Mr.MasterOfTheMonsters]

​@@SoulToLose He can still be destroyed with enough energy. Maybe he would generate a concentration of energy so dense that his body starts to disintegrate. Probably wouldn't die, should have the time to turn it off and then only use a safe multiplier.

[@abdelarch8038]

I think Vegetto would use Super Saiyan 3 in that case.

[@SoulToLose]

@@abdelarch8038 that's if Vegito could use super saiyan 3. Gotenks had to train in the time chamber to figure out how to do it and Vegeta couldn't at all, so we don't know for sure if Vegito could. Might've been able to do ssj2 though. We don't know that he even used more than base super saiyan.

[@Johncornwell103]

A Tri-Beam infused with Kaioken x10 or more would probably puncture reality itself

[@TienMostPowerfulEarthlingOfAll]

Tien stayed behind longer than anyone on King Kais planet. Its was KK that taught Tien how to perfect his Tri Beam no doubt about it.

[@NerdGohan]

it makes no sense that the humans and piccolo at king kais didn't learn kaioken..

[@tusantus]

it make sense since even goku takes at least a month or two to learn them and the humans and piccolo only has like 1 month and one week

[@____________838]

@@tusantussomehow Piccolo was only on the planet for 6 days…

[@EndoScorpion]

Goku took 6 months to arrive, 40 days (and nights) to catch Bubbles, and the rest of the time (less than 5 months) to learn both the Kaio-Ken AND the Genki Dama. Piccolo and the humans took 40-50 days to arrive, and Piccolo was wished to Namek after roughly a week. Yamcha was wished back with the namekian balls once they had recharged, which took 130 day after Namek blew up. So Yamcha was on King Kai's planet for almost 140 days (just under 5 months). Pretty much the exact same time Goku spent there after he got used to the gravity. Tien and Chaiotzu stayed for another 130 days until the namekain D-balls could be wished upon again, meaning they were there for roughly 9 months. Twice as long as Goku and Yamcha. I can understand Piccolo maybe not being able to learn Kaio-ken that fast - or at least he could learn the principles but not master it until later. However, Yamcha, Tien and Chaiotzu had more than enough time to learn the Kaio-ken, Genki Dama, and more! Remember, Goku was around 400 PL when he died. He spent a lot of time getting to King Kai's planet and more time spent getting used to the gravity. His only training partners were King Kai and Bubbles. Yamcha and Tien were easily over 1,200 (while Chaiotzu was 600-800-ish) - they got there much faster and had no problem with the gravity at all, while having each other to spar with.

[@tusantus]

humans and piccolo learning kaioken is really possible but genkidama? not so much since it requires a completely pure heart

[@NerdGohan]

@@tusantus I'm sure chiatozu can do the genkidama. chiatozu has insane ki control and seems to be very pure at the time of Saiyan saga.

[@adamwade6243]

I think that Piccolo had surpassed Nappa after training on King Kai's Planet, as Piccolo just might have gotten strong enough to cause some actual physical harm to Vegeta from the Saiyan Saga. But Piccolo would have stayed being the second strongest of the Z-Fighters if he would have learned, mastered, and then evolved the Kaiōken technique too. Since Piccolo would have been able to push the limits of the Kaiōken technique a little bit more or a lot more than Son Goku had been able to from Piccolo being able to partially control his Body's natural ability to regenerate at will.

[@milklander847]

Piccolo's regeneration consumes stamina, it wouldn't have helped him with the Kaioken.

[@____________838]

@@adamwade6243 all of the Z-Fighters that had trained on King Kai’s planet were stronger that the Ginyu Force by time they left… why are we talking about Nappa, lol

[@cidlunius1076]

1:17 To be absolutely honest. If Piccolo had Kaioken it would actually explain why he can suddenly take on Frieza, the arc would proceed as normal. There is no way Piccolo got a base power level that closed the gap from 3,000 to over a million by fusing with a guy that topped at 43k, but if he had kaioken x10 and had a base of 120k after his... uh... meditations in king kais planet it would feel more plausible why Piccolo can stack up all if the sudden.

[@ojpickle5923]

Piccolo had the gravity of king kais planet plus weighted clothing. Those two stacked and he was basically doing gravity training like Goku. Him having a big base power then fusing to get to a million makes sense

[@lordnul1708]

Piccolo with Kaioken is the biggest missed opportunity in DB.

[@adamwade6243]

First Form Frieza's Power Level is 530,000, Second Form Frieza's Power Level is pretty much twice as high as First Form Frieza's Power Level, and Third Form Frieza's Power Level is pretty much thrice as high as First Form Frieza's Power Level.

[@MetaGamingDojo]

yooo kaioken on a namekian warrior would be BROKEN😂

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

no

[@yexe9129]

Yes and no? Sure, regeneration does mean you aren't actively tearing yourself apart, but you have to remember the Kaioken and regen take stamina. So you're healthier, but you're winding yourself faster than say a human or a saiyan. Give and take.

[@EndoScorpion]

@@yexe9129 True but namekians are natural masters with ki. Also, when Goku used the Kaio-ken in bursts against Frieza it didn't have no where near the damaging effect it had when used against Vegeta. Not only was Goku stronger and more accustomed to having a strain on his body from the gravity training, he had more time to practise with it too. Now think of Piccolo in the android saga. He was already on par with SSJ's in terms of power, and would've had 5 years to master it. Piccolo's regen seems to get better too. In the Buu saga his whole body it broke into pieces as a statue and upon the stone wear off after Dabura's death, Piccolo used regen to heal it without much effort at all.

[@nemie1610]

@@MetaGamingDojo ong

[@timothyfrasier8218]

You forgot two potential Unleashed Piccolo and Orange Piccolo.

[@azimuddin1890]

(3:16) I wish the other Z Fighters also kept up with the plot in terms of strength.

[@FirstnameLastname-yc2mt]

Ar least piccolo got orange form. Happy to see My guy catch up!

[@azimuddin1890]

@@FirstnameLastname-yc2mt Agreed!

[@takeruneverborn4740]

Not giving Piccolo the kaioken is the biggest F U toriyama gave to his favorite character i mean come on with that kaioken amp on top of the namekian Fusion with Nail Piccolo would have dog walk both 2nd and 3rd form frieza and it quite the shame nobody decide to give piccolo the kaioken as option custom power up in the budokai & xenoverse games to my knowledge as what ifs or fanservice

[@digitaladventurer2142]

I always say Piccolo and the gang learned at least principals of Kaioken from King Kai. Druing his fight with Gero Piccolo states they all can amplify their Ki in short intense bursts too give their attacks more power, and that is Kaioken in a nutshell. Yeah Kaioken is far more focused and refined and boosts everything and not just attack power but it proves the non-Saiyans have some tricks up their sleeve.

[@TienMostPowerfulEarthlingOfAll]

King Kai definitely taught Tien how to perfect and amplify the Tri Beam no doubt.

[@anthonywatson1508]

Would his healing factor allow him to use a somewhat high level of kioken?

[@GlytchGames]

Absolutely, it tears your muscles apart and for all we know it would repair to be even stronger than before as that’s how muscle is built

[@SaiyanScholar]

I thought about it... but realised his healing takes a chunk of stamina each time. And Kaioken requires stamina. So, in the end, he corners himself faster by healing. He has to take the damage at higher levels like Goku.

[@BjornHeiden]

Not at a higher level, just more efficiently. The cap for Kaioken is x20

[@Charisonic_558]

​@@BjornHeiden kaioken has no official limit. x20 is just how high we've ever seen it. If anything it's probably the most efficient multi but could go higher in shorter bursts. While non-canon since it's a movie, goku hit x100 in the lord slug movie for the killing blow

[@EndoScorpion]

@@BjornHeiden Says who? Goku knew the technique less than 6 months and was already breaking King Kai's cap of x2 against Vegeta... and later was pushing x20 against Frieza on Namek. If Piccolo learnt it in the afterlife, he'd have almost 5 years worth of time training with it by the time the androids showed up.

[@Doyourbest4245]

Piccolo’s power was above one-million when he fought second form Frieza. Kaioken only goes to x20, so that would take Piccolo to more than twenty-million, but Frieza could handle that easily with 50% power, or sixty-million.

[@TienMostPowerfulEarthlingOfAll]

King Kai definitely taught Tien off screen how to perfect and amplify his Tri Beam. Thats why he had that trump card hiding during the Android saga out of nowhere. Tien did volunteer to stay at King Kais and train there some more so he definitely learned some sick shit there after before his revival.

[@matthewburdick4966]

I feel like Krillin could really come in clutch if he learned Instant Transmission. Instant Transmission Destructo Disk?

[@rynobehnke8289]

I mean I can understand why Piccolo can't use it on Namek was he simply wasn't long enough with Kaio (like what about a week or so) to learn this apparently super hard to learn technique. That being said Yamcha, Tenshinhan and properly even Chao-zu properly should all have learned it given that they stayed as long if not longer training with Kaio than Goku did. Especially Tenshinhan given that he was always shown to be just as fast in learning new techniques as Goku. Oh and obviously Cell latter on.

[@kurtzamarripa4689]

Piccolo in the start of the cell saga was around super sayian goku and vegeta level which means he would be able to be at minimum keep up with the androids with a kaioken times 2, so with only a kaioken 3 he would be able to beat the androids and with a 4 and onwards he would crush the androids

[@adamwade6243]

I think that Piccolo's actually natural full power would have been slightly stronger than his canonical counterpart's actual natural full power if Piccolo would have learned the Kaiōken technique from Piccolo having to exert more effort than his canonical counterpart would have when it came to training from Piccolo simply trying to learn how to efficiently use the Kaiōken technique in the very first place.

[@VegarotFusion]

Kaioken x 10 Piccolo Kami fusion full power would decimate Android 16, 17 & 18. It would even terrify Cell if he didn't use it during their first encounter. At times 10 he is almost twice as powerful as he was during the Cell Games. After training in the room. Regardless of which online power level list you use. That's if Piccolo trained his base power level to the same height as the original story line. He quite often had the highest base level.

[@HeroLionHeart68]

Imagine him stacking it on top of his orange form 😮 I actually wouldn't mind seeing more what if fusions videos,Sigh those were the days.

[@BrianAwesome]

@Saiyan Scholar, You forgot. How exactly would Future Kaioken Piccolo & Z Fighters Vs Androids play out ?

[@pokesonav]

Considering Piccolo's namekian physiology and regeneration ability, I'm pretty sure Piccolo would be able to take Kaio-Ken to a way higher multiplier. At least Kaio-Ken x50 by the time Androids arrive, and after fusing with Kami he might be able to push it to x100

[@chickenpotpieare3things]

All Piccolo needed to learn was 3x-4x and then when Frieza transformed further, he would have had plenty of power still, of course until he goes Final Form, then Frieza would only have to use a little over 3%. But I feel like Piccolo would have ended it after realising he can still best Frieza after the transformation, not letting him tranform further. Because we already know each Frieza "supressed" transformation gives him around a 1.7x-1.8x multiplier because of the power-levels still being a thing, therefore the math DOES check out, you can go check it. So if Piccolo was already around 2nd form Frieza, x3 would still be enough to handle third form, maybe even with just x2 because Frieza's 3rd increase is definitely the same as the increase from 1st to 2nd, 1.7x-1.8x

[@adamwade6243]

Piccolo (2X Kaiōken) would have been able to defeat Vegeta, as Vegeta had only surpassed Third Form Frieza and was almost, ALMOST absolutely nothing when compared to the very, VERY heavily suppressed version of Fourth Form Frieza.

[@ricky2012100]

don't forget king kai said no other student he had could use the kaioken or spirit bomb before Goku they're probably the most difficult techniques

[@warangelthedemonslayer3231]

This is an epic video! Also, Tien with kaioken would be amazing! I wish we could've gotten to see the other Z-Warriors use the kaioken attack!

[@PhinMura]

The Kaioken puts immense strain on the body when overused, but like what if you could regrow your body. If only some character existed that could regenerate

[@insanemakaioshin]

Due to his regeneration, times 30 or even 50 is possible.

[@guardiantree8879]

Ehh hold up on the Buu saga, I could see Piccolo being proficient enough with Kaioken by then to be a threat to Buu. Arguably he’s around SS1 full power in Buu saga. SS 2 is just two times that. Even saying Piccolo is 50% of an SS1 in the Buu saga, multiply that by 20 & he’d be even stronger than a SS2.

[@guardiantree8879]

In fact if Piccolo was just 10% as strong as a SS in Buu saga with a Kaioken times 20 he’d be equal to a SS2.

[@evanhayes5891]

Piccolo could do 3x without much issue. Dude regenerates! He's the best candidate to use Kaioken.

[@thefilmwatcher1302]

Why does this matter? There’s nothing that this would contradict if if WAS Kaiō-Ken, given who Piccolo had JUST trained with in Otherworld.

[@floydpulley3509]

Given Picollos lack of time to practice Kaioken, he wouldn't be able to hold it for very long, giving Frieza the huge advantage on top of using the Kaioken weakening you after use if you're tapping into power you cannot normally handle.

[@cainabel6356]

It would have been cool if Piccolo knew how and did use the Kioken. Just think going against Imperfect Cell. Piccolo after gaining Kami fusion. Imperfect Cell will think he would have easily beat Piccoloc and Piccolo would smile and go Kioken and KO Imperfect Cell. I always thought that Namek Final Form Frieza full power was a total of 12 million only? IDK.

[@hunterculpepper1973]

It was 120 million buy yeah 130 with full power

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

@@hunterculpepper1973 no 50% 60 mill 100% 120 mill

[@mikefrassetti737]

Love this vid You ever cover what if the Z fighters trained in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber during the Saiyan Saga? That would be interesting to see, all the humans spending 2 days in there

[@PhinMura]

Unrelated but i like to imagine that piccolo got 2 new forms because hes got 2 different namekians inside of him. Its dumb, ik, but im choosing to believe it

[@DankUser]

Nail: Lower. Lower.... Lower.. Piccolo: ......

[@thearchivalist8179]

The BIG FIX in Dragonball Z: This could be controversial, but I believe the narrative would be fixed and improved dramatically by one change in the Cell Saga. When Cell comes back and kills Trunks. Vegeta should have immediately power spiked to SS2 in retaliation, setting the stage for the later details which fed into Rage Trunks in Super as well as Ultra Ego. When Saiyans of royal bloodline go "all the way" like Gohan does, they unlock power boosts and transformations in the moment that are otherwise impossible. I feel giving Vegeta that level of spike in the Cell Saga clears up all the inconsistencies later on. Even if that would upset fans, and detract Gogan going SS2, they would establish the moment that they prove any saiyan can reach SS2, and NOT just Gohan, instead of that occurring during the Cell to Buu time skip off-screen, and Goku fans dont have to be mad, they could have done it and given it the UI treatment. Maybe Vegeta reaches a temporary SS2. "SS2 Sign" either way, if they established that level of power boost back then, from Vegeta and progeny potential, then it wouldnt feel so jarring later, when Trunks achieves Rage, or Vegeta achieving things like Evolution or Ultra Ego. So yes. This is my take, what do you think Saiyan Scholar? It raises the character impact of Vegeta's fall in the Majin Saga too. It doesnt REALLY TAKE anything from the story in my opinion, and would only work to add to it in a positive, cohesive way, am I wrong?

[@koolkris7078]

I still have no idea how Frost is more powerful than Piccolo. Frost didn't even know his full power form and each of the androids can handle a super Saiyan and fused with kami piccolo is on par with a super Saiyan so he should be able to handle frost

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

Sad we never got to see King Kai use the kaioken times Pi, e, or various other transcendental numbers.

[@BernieTheDevastator]

Orange kaioken piccolo would b crazyyyyyyyy

[@shadowspringtrap3122]

Damn if Piccolo used kaioken he really would have forced Frieza to go to his 4th form (Base) quicker.

[@adamwade6243]

Piccolo (Sync With Nail) would have been able to very easily overpower and then defeat Third Form Frieza right as soon as Piccolo (Sync With Nail) would have used the Kaiōken technique to multiply his natural full power by two times.

[@tregrenos8615]

I doubt Piccolo would have allowed 3rd form to happen since I don't see him treating Frieza any different than any of the other opponents he'd faced in the series and movies, IE killing them pretty much immediately. Add on to that Nails desire to avenge his people and it's pretty much a guarantee. Kaiken 1 would have put him well over 2nd Forms power and Piccolo'd likely end the fight ASAP. Given that any damage Frieza suffers translates from Form 2 to Form 3 (evidenced by 3s lack of a tail) then even if Frieza could somehow manage to achieve 3rd form he'd have taken quite a beating and it probably wouldn't have helped him in the end. He'd have had to skip directly to Final Form to survive Piccolo, but given that Frieza couldn't sense power levels he'd still have been as cocky as the cannon story and wouldn't have realized he needed Final Form in time to survive Piccolo IMO.

[@goobot1]

He trained with king Kai for months not days

[@saintzeroinfinity]

I don’t think it’s possible to use kaioken with special beam cannon. Since both techniques need some kind of full mental concentration.

[@jpronan8757]

Great video as always, I have an idea for a video if your interested. What if Tien and Launch had a child and when?

[@dwightnorton3398]

Nice 1

[@Passportbro33Mark2]

Let’s just keep it real! Nobody on Namic was beating third form Frieza except Goku!

[@BearerOfLightSonOfGod]

He probably would be motivated to keeping up with goku and vageta and could see him improve the technique. His pride won’t get the better of him he might except help from others including elder guru and elder supreme kai

[@idkww-el5ep]

Bro you keep changing video titles and I thought I was going crazy

[@SaiyanScholar]

Nothing has been changed on this?

[@idkww-el5ep]

@@SaiyanScholar nah but the other vids

[@SaiyanScholar]

Algorithm tests

[@YakubTheFather]

What if piccolo got betrayed and did the kaio ken times ten million in the hyperbolic time chamber

[@GIGANIGA_1]

He at king kai's for few weeks but goku had to train for months

[@WideOldDan]

With Piccolos ki focus and regen ability i think he could take Kioken and make it ridiculously strong What if Piccolo could forcibly fuse with anyone?

[@brunomoreira2483]

Kaioken plus Piccolo or even Cell would have been way too broken, that's why Toriyama left out that option

[@BjornHeiden]

It would have been wasted on Cell since he was a Super Saiyan

[@EndoScorpion]

@@BjornHeiden No he wasn't and no it wouldn't be wasted. All I'm seeing from you is false claims with nothing to back up your claims.

[@Ringoismybirdo]

Piccolo if he learned ultra ego and kaioken infinite power but like zero stamina

[@stoneyboijosh9469]

I think there’s a higher probability that cell should use kaio Ken 😅 if piccolo had it

[@gregorymcavoy758]

Tbh, there really needs to be a deep discussion on the power level jumps between when Trunks kills Freiza and the Android saga. Simply put, how would Piccolo gain a near Super Saiyan level of power when originally he was literally a third of Goku's power when they both fought Freiza? As in 1 million or more versus Goku's 3 million. We assume that Picollo fought Goku when he was a Super Saiyan to gain his new level power in the Android saga. The problem is that wouldnt have Gohan? And likewise Goku? Think about it, Piccolo is chasing Goku's base power not his SSJ level. There is a power level disconnect here. Piccolo should only be as powerful or perhaps more powerful than Goku's base form. And visa versa. Same goes for Gohan. Otherwise, you could very much argue Goku could have a near Super Saiyan level base level by the time of the Android saga. I just don't buy in that only Piccolo gets that massive boost of let's say 80-100x of his Namek saga level and Goku and Gohan only stay at the level of let's say 10 million.

[@chimericalical]

I always assumed that Piccolo, Yamcha, Krillen, Tien, and maybe Chiaotzu learned KaioKen and used it regularly. Also that Gohan was probably taught it as well. In Namek against Freeza Goku is using it to the point that during his fight against Ginyu and Freeza no one but north Kai noticed he was using it. But…. Against Freeza Piccolo isn’t around the group when they ask if Goku can use it. When piccolo is fighting Freeza and Goku shows up and fight him later piccolo is so outmatched that the kaioken wouldn’t matter at that point. My assumption was they all learned it and were all using it but Goku was so proficient at it they didn’t notice it.

[@TienMostPowerfulEarthlingOfAll]

King Kai taught Tien how to perfect and amplify his Tri Beam no doubt. Thats what happened when Tien volunteered to stay and train in other world for a bit longer.

[@yexe9129]

For what it's worth, though I concede is VERY non-canon, one of the xeroverse games does have a preset for Krillin and Yamcha which can use the Kaioken. So at least those two are shown using it, even if this was addressed in the vid. One thing I *do* want to point out though is stamina. We know Kaioken, besides the body-breaking aspect, is stamina-heavy. So is regeneration. While yes, Piccolo could use it longer, if he wants to keep a consistent output, he will be tiring himself out faster than his contemporaries. A unique up and downside.

[@mndtry]

@@yexe9129 yeah sadly they removed it in XenoVerse 2

[@DjTeeray]

Piccolo would’ve kept kaioken alive for the rest of the series, doesn’t make sense that they didn’t do it. I would’ve rather taken that then the humongous power jump he got from the training😭

[@benisrael144]

End of the day if the plot is wacky it ruins the story🤨

[@yournumberonepal]

Kaioken is the only way I would accept the Z fighters making big gains.

[@Rafael-w4j]

Master Krillin, Nirvana Cultivation Tien, Spiritbomb Wolf Yamcha.

[@charlessoto1792]

It kinda looked like Tien used it against the Ginyu Force. It may have not been in the manga, but it was still pretty Radd.

[@karlfabriciochavezacuna5826]

wait, piccolo was superior than a base ssj1 in the cell saga, ssj3 is just an x8 of ssj1, kaioken times 20 would not put him on par with goku ssj3 or even superior?

[@MrYugioh123]

DRAGON BALL

[@AidanClark-gr2nz]

ORANGE PICCOLO KAIOKEN X10

[@jplaya2023]

With Kaioken piccolo namek gpes alot different. Frieza dies and there is no ssj on namek

[@DjTeeray]

Kaioken is too powerful. It should’ve never went past 3x. For piccolo with his regen I’ll say x5-7 is fair. If cell were to use it then id say x20 is good, and buu could probably just go up to like 1000x or even higher honestly 😂

[@JarlQboyq]

overcoming king kais planet gravity had to have taken a heavy amount of time to overcome. to train at a substantial rate with a full body amp under already strenuous doesn't seem very logical. in Goku's case he was born on a 10x gravity planet as well as possible saiyan genetics adapting over the generations. One thing I would say is Piccolo wouldn't fuse with Kami if he had perfected Kaioken like with the Namek theory he would be confident enough to believe he can beat Cell alone.

[@EndoScorpion]

Goku was at a PL of around 400 against Raditz. It took him 6 months to travel Snake Way and 40 days to get used to the gravity / catch Bubbles. Radtiz at 1,200 was above average for a saiyan - just for reference for being used to 10x Earth's gravity. Piccolo was around 3,500 when he died against Nappa and it only took him a about 40-50 days to travel Snake Way along with the other Earthlings (the weakest being Chaoitszu at around 800). Even Chaoitszu didn't seem fazed by the gravity on King Kai's planet when he arrived. None of them did. They were already powerful enough that it didn't matter.

[@benisrael144]

Dude piccolo has a power of 1.5 million in his full power so times two is 3 million duh🤣🤣

[@kishwelsh8687]

Who knows O YA O YA

[@andyf3269]

Would he not be in the 20000000+ with the times 20? He would push final form frieza a little…. Like at least a little lol

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

? What is a 1.1x Kaioken?that doesn't exist, at least not any canon material.

[@frankiejones7858]

What did Kai actually teach them lol

[@EndoScorpion]

Wasn't Goku using Kaio-ken x20 on Namek before he went SSJ? After having learnt the technique less than 6 months before this. If Piccolo learnt it during his time in the afterlife, I reckon he would be easily rocking x20 or more by the time Mecha Frieza showed up 1-2 years after Namek. After a further 3 years training with SSJ Goku, and gaining a power on par with SSJ Goku/Vegeta... he'd likely be able to go much higher with his Kaio-ken multipliers. At least x50 (the same as the SSJ multiplier), or closer to x100. Which means beginning of Android saga Piccolo, who has base level on par with a SSJ already.... would be able to use KK x50 and would be, by far, the strongest in the arc. After fusing with Kami and RoSaT training; his Kaio-ken would put him in the same ballpark as SSJ2 Gohan, or even further beyond. Piccolo, Vegeta, and Trunks performed similarly against the Cell Jrs. Could argue Perfect Cell was maybe 3 times Piccolo at this point, 4-5 if you want to be generous to cell. With SSJ2 Gohan being OVER 2 times the power of Perfect Cell (as proven by a 50% one-armed SSJ2 Gohan blowing away a SUPER Perfect Cell). Piccolo would only need a Kaio-Ken x3-5 to match Cell, certainly no more than a x10 to match SSJ2 Gohan. Kaio-ken Piccolo is broken.

[@BjornHeiden]

X20 is the cap

[@EndoScorpion]

@@BjornHeiden Says who?

[@derrickbonsell]

​@@BjornHeiden Goku didn't need to go above x20 but there's no official cap. Super Saiyan was a 50X boost but had no ill effects on Goku's biology so it superceded Kaioken.

[@EndoScorpion]

@@derrickbonsell So no cap. So anyone can train to use higher multipliers. I know Goku stopped using it because he got SSJ, but we're talking about Piccolo here. If Goku was using x20 after less than 6 months of knowing the technique, then someone using it for 5 years and who was already as strong a SSJ in base could push ut way beyond what Goku did. And with no cap on it then it's very likely.

[@MasterChef1957]

OK now give majin buu kaioken

[@corazonesoterico]

They wanted a come from king Kai entrance into namek similar to when goku came back to life to fight vegeta y Napa

[@stephenschneekloth1535]

Piccolo with Kaioken in the Android Saga would have ended it. Imperfect Cell/Android 16 are not x10 stronger then 17/18 so a Kaioken x10 Kamiccolo would have absolutely devastated any of them, wouldn't even be close.

[@bgvo4373]

They’re the dragon team, not the z fighters.

[@SaiyanScholar]

Z Fighters

[@TevyaSmolka]

Interesting what if man 😊

[@DrunkPanda239]

Piccolo’s power lvl in the android saga would make things easy because hes at supersayian lvls of power. Combine 10-20 or even thirdy plus kami fusion they wouldn’t even need gohan.

[@benisrael144]

Also piccolo can regenerate dude stop shitting on piccolo😒

[@SaiyanScholar]

Troll lol

[@benisrael144]

@@SaiyanScholar piccolo deserves the spot light dude not to just to be a warm up lol💀💀

[@SaiyanScholar]

Piccolo is ace but I think healing would wipe out his stamina quicker which he needs for Kaioken.

[@benisrael144]

@@SaiyanScholar thats true lol but nice idea do bro😉

[@SaiyanScholar]

Thanks for watching tho! Appreciate it man

[@lawrencefitzgerald4744]

I've been saying this since Kaioken was introduced in Dragonball. Piccolo would have learned it faster than Goku too. Piccolo was always better with ki control and mental techniques. [Edit: Added content] I'm the original DBZ guide, Piccolo and Android 17 were shown as having the exact same power level. A Piccolo with a KKx10 would absolutely destroy 17, 18 and Cell - all at the same time.