Sam Shamoun converted into Islam when he found out this....!

[@gach87]

That's why catholics, orthodox and jewish rabbis understand the importance of tradition alongside the texts. This is only a problem for Sola Scriptura guys.

[@nickmartin6116]

Even for sola scriptura, there is a difference between " ___"onlyists(their preferred version, KJV or otherwise), and those who accept the words of scripture as a govorning force in their lives, with pursuit and acceptance of wisdom from credible sources.

[@davidchristian1717]

Flipping the words of Professor Baden back on his own stance of the Jewish Bible, "Your translation is already an interpretation..." that works both ways. This is a prime example of what happens when you allow your own finite understanding of a infinite Creator dictate your faith instead of letting faith in the infinite Creator dictate your finite understanding of the infinite Creator. So many intellectual people get the cart before the horse in the sense of propping themselves up on their knowledge.

[@knkn5049]

@@davidchristian1717 Joel Baden, Professor at Yale University, teaching students the Hebrew Bible; asserts that the person known as Moses is fictional; the Exodus never happened, and Moses did not write the five books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. He DOESN'T elevate his version of bible over your one. He just tells you what modern scholars know and think. Don't make it personal.

[@davidchristian1717]

@@knkn5049 His reasoning is flawed and a strawman argument at best. But the man is teaching others that Moses was fictional and did not write the first five books of the Bible and you don't find those lies to be offensive? Are you even a Christian who holds to the errancy of Scripture or even a devote Jew for that matter? The lackadaisical mindset towards defend the truth of God's Word is what has gotten the "church" to where it is today.. Thank goodness the apostles and early church fathers did not have the same mindset.

[@davidchristian1717]

Actually, I believe you are Muslim.. That explains a lot..

[@knkn5049]

@@davidchristian1717 could you explain what exactly "flawed" ? He just told that you have two versions of books of Jeremiah and two books of Samuel. Also Deuteronomy 32:8 says : number of gods/ sons of god. He just tells you what is written in your book. There is no reason to attack his personality. Open book and fact check him, keep your "word salad" for yourself.

[@Vincentvega293]

Don't you know uthman burn all the different versions of the Qur'an. Noted scholars such as yasir quadi have admitted this😂😂😂

[@rashidaquil5284]

But memory was not zapped 😅

[@BushDoctor-dw8el]

Osman could've burnt all the other versions of the Koran available during his term apart from the one he agreed to but this you have to know, the Koran was revealed Verbum not in writing and the people of his term had memorized parts of it and so he may have called the memorisers and listened to each one on what they had memorised then compared to the text in his possession. Now, the bible is a translation of the translation of greek translation which in itself creates confusion. Not only that, jesus was of the Israelites as such he couldn't have been speaking greek. While the Korans' translation is not accepted as "the Koran" it has to be read in its original language and understood but when you read a translation it's not taken as the word. Please understand that.

[@knkn5049]

​@@BushDoctor-dw8elUthman didn't knew what should be in Quran, otherwise he would produce manuscript by himself and wouldn't need to ask younger Zaid to rewrite existing versions 20 years later.

[@jakedemaggio8649]

@@BushDoctor-dw8el your possibly wrong about the Greek comment. That part of the world had been Hellenized at that time, Greek was the “international” language at the time like English is now, it’s understood Jesus was largely speaking Aramaic day to day (not Hebrew which is why Mel Gibson’s Movie “The Passion” was filmed in Aramaic) while Aramaic was the common tongue many could both speak & read/write Hebrew (especially for Torah studies).. Also it’s definitely not outside of the realm of possibility that Jesus (& many others in that period) could speak Greek (at least to some varying degree, whether fluent or having a minimal or basic understanding). Considering many of Christs apostles were fluent in Greek, and the fact Greek was the ‘defacto’ international language at the time is the reason the Gospels were written in Greek in the first place, in order to be spread across the largest populations as possible, it’s entirely possible Jesus spoke at-least SOME Greek, maybe more.

[@jakedemaggio8649]

⁠@@BushDoctor-dw8el And with the Uthman standardization of the Koran, it’s exactly that. Physical manuscripts are far more reliable than ‘word of mouth’ or human memory alone, which is subject to human error to a MUCH larger degree. This is why eventually Uthman had to standardize the Koran via ordering various regions/populations to either write down & copy or hand in their existing copies of the Koran to be sent to him in order for him along with various scholars to standardized it. He then sent out copies of the now standardized/authoritative Koran & destroyed all the other versions that had previously existed. Now imagine instead of destroying all the existing & pre existing versions of the Koran, instead many of the ancient pre-Uthman manuscripts were preserved, & could be referenced. You think we’d have a more accurate version of & therefore a more accurate understanding of the Koran? Yes! And would the Koran be the exact same version as it is today? Highly unlikely.. Although the ancient biblical manuscripts have been instrumental in our understanding of scripture & knowledge of Gods word, despite cases of Human error in translations & copying of the Bible, having thousands of ancient manuscripts to reference gives us a fantastic understanding of our Bible and gets us as close as possible to having & understanding Gods word & divine revelation as accurately as possible. The Muslim claim of “perfect preservation” due to memorizing is absurd. There’s nothing more vounerable to human error than relying exclusively on ‘word of mouth’ passed on for generations without written records or written accounts. Fact remains, the reason the Koran & its verbal recitation as well as its written copies is largely universal & appears unchanged is used as evidence for its perfect preservation. But the truth is this is the product of a standardization process done MANY years ago via Uthman which is now historical record.

[@francisfabian6577]

So many deliberation on the Bible. Finally as Christians I believe by faith and dont wish to deliberate. God is wise and He understands His sheep. In the last days people will be wise and have various thoughts .An this goes on and on.Ler is worship God and give our hearts... Praise His Holy name.🙏🏻

[@knkn5049]

@@francisfabian6577 so your position is : Joel Baden is just nobody with his opinion, and you don't want to think about such things (don't wish to deliberate/discuss) Look at picture of ostrich who's hiding his head in the ground.

[@septimus1306]

I'd have thought it would be easy...... everyone knows that the bible is written by humans. Here in 2024 I don't see anyone being murdered in cold blood just for saying that or asking questions. There are followrs of a religion in Pakistan who are burning churches and lynching people for blasphemy, followers of that same religion burned Yezidi girls alive in a metal cage because they would not convert. The validity or accuracy of a scripture isn't the issue - get your head out of the sand and take as stand against the burning, murder, beheading and slavery that are happening now, in the 21st century.

[@knkn5049]

​@@septimus1306because of words you are useing, you comment is automatically hidden by KZbin and nobody see it except me. Bad luck

[@gbfxtrader]

Bro. Jesus is. That is the ultimate point. When you and I pass from this life it is the hope of Christ that we take with us. No version of the bible will matter then only the message. Last I checked every version got that right. Thank you Comforter.

[@alialhamideh6467]

prove it

[@knkn5049]

​@@alialhamideh6467oral tradition. Disprove it

[@alialhamideh6467]

@@knkn5049 that would be valid if there was any consistency between what we have and any original. Also it's just not an oral traidition, theres no tradition of memorization and recitation in christianity, everything is relied upon by the book/books, of which you cannot guarantee the accurasy of, nor do you have access to the authorship, nor do you have it in the original language, nor can you link it to jesus, nor are the teachings preserved and/or consistent, nor is free of contradiction.

[@knkn5049]

@@alialhamideh6467 i have good news and bad news for you, let's start with good one: You are very lucky to find me, because I am "hadith enthusiast" who knows a lot of things. Now bad one: everything you tell about them is applied to you, your tradition is based on books. When you open beginning of Bukhari it says about his intentions, but not about what he archived. If you start check when "narrators" lived, sometimes you may find gaps up to 100 years between narrators. And you also know many stories about scribers of Prophet ﷺ. They always worked with books

[@alialhamideh6467]

@@knkn5049 genuinely none of what u said disproves anything. our tradition isn't based off books, but even if it was, we're still fine because there's a system of authentication. idk about the gaps in narrations but all sahih narrations have reliable chains going back to the prophet (sws), if the chain doesn't add up, its not sahih. and yes, scribes worked with books, so what? I'm shia btw so i don't take from bukhari anyway and i would agree with you that alot of what is claimed to be sahih by sunnis is not. either way i looked through your profile, the things you pick on often either have no basis or are based on diliberate misunderstanding, bias or genuine ignorance. With sincerity, literally all of it can be debunked quite easily.

[@rejugeorge2863]

That’s why we have the Holy Spirit to lead us into ALL TRUTH ❤

[@rashidaquil5284]

You mean the same Holy Spirit to catholics, protestants, coptics, Lutherans

[@knkn5049]

​@@rashidaquil5284should we list all "schools of thought" who all read "one Quran"? Be consistent in your standards.

[@CD-CH-EB]

LOL fried... absolutely fried

[@atheistcomments]

You guys can't tell it's just fiction?

[@rmh032]

Inventing stupid things to argue about lol

[@knkn5049]

@@rmh032 you are just angry because you can't write popular book people would discuss. ;)

[@920WASHBURN]

😂😂 when he found out you could marry 9 year olds

[@knkn5049]

Have to find something new to say about "corruption of the bible" leave you suggestions here, in case Sam will read them, so he will be able to do better.

[@salehmohamad347]

Translation of a translation of a missing original

[@rashidaquil5284]

For sure Jesus will not recognize this current kjv Bible nor his name nor his fake Xmas nor his fake white blonde idol 😅

[@knkn5049]

​@@rashidaquil5284it is very ironic to hear from you, because according to hadith you have to recognise face of Prophet ﷺ to get to paradise

[@rashidaquil5284]

What scripture was jesus preaching? For sure it is not the current bibles

[@knkn5049]

@@rashidaquil5284 if it is serious question: he and Paul, they all used books of Old Testament and mentioned variants of books + books of Jubilee and Enoch

[@BarbaPamino]

Christ didnt come to write us a book. He established a Church and that Church shows us how to worship. Figure out which church connects back to the Apostles without break points and you'll find the Truth.

[@atheistcomments]

@@BarbaPamino He was starting a cult.

[@knkn5049]

​@@atheistcomments Insult isn't an argument

[@atheistcomments]

@@knkn5049 It's not when it fits the story.

[@knkn5049]

@@atheistcomments A stands for "Angry" in "atheist"? No. Barbara has a position that chatolic church is better, you may have objection, but what goal would you archive by calling them names? Nothing. Try another approach.

[@atheistcomments]

@@knkn5049 I'm promoting public awareness.

[@francisfabian6577]

All you folks are just wasting time.

[@knkn5049]

@@francisfabian6577 Do you have any objections to words of professor or you just want to insult people back, because you got offended by what you have seen in video?

[@thepeopleslibrary8673]

You could say that about everything, francis.

[@EverettPadgett-q6p]

​@@knkn5049Yeah, Like satanic worshipping But sex Teachers don't exist.

[@knkn5049]

@@EverettPadgett-q6p you also can answer to question above, you also seem a bit offended

[@BrendanODonovan-c5z]

If you could get the original Koran then people might believe it is authentic friend of Burnt all the other Quran and pick onep

[@knkn5049]

@@BrendanODonovan-c5z you are right, BUT now you know that Bible isn't "authentic", do you still believe it?

[@thomaswest4033]

​​@@knkn5049 That works better for biblical literalists. Since I think other sects of Christians believe that the holy Spirit can shine the light for you. Remember for the first early Christians and much of Jewish history, there was no book till later. It would be naive to suggest that these people were not Jews and Christians. Edit: fyi I'm neither Christian nor Jewish.

[@knkn5049]

@@thomaswest4033 that works well against claim "same torah, same gospel, letter for letter, word for word, before, after, today" that's exact argument used in most of debates against mumlims. It is not only fallacious argument, but it's also false. So it must be forgotten

[@atnanmustafa6212]

Authentic Quran is in Birmingham museum carbon dated since the time of prophet Mohamed, it’s been proven that is authentic and even non Muslim historians have admitted that. And is exactly the same as it is today, it might have slightly different translation in English, spanish ect.. but not changed the meaning

[@knkn5049]

@@atnanmustafa6212 you are doing same mistake as Sam Shamoun. 1) it is 2 pages 2) there are +10 versions of quran today 3) you never ever dared to compare by yourself, that's just what Zakir Naik said to you. Don't be like that, it is adult discussion.