The Sad State of DPS in Overwatch 2

[@ccaesers]

i wish overwatch 2 never happened 😢

[@thebandit6886]

Same dude.... same 😔

[@BTRshow]

@@ccaesers wish they never deleted overwatch 1

[@אורז-צ5ט]

Not gonna lie I would give up all the new heroes to get back to the original overwatch. As of now I completely stopped playing.

[@CtrlAltDeliciousGaming]

100000%

[@CtrlAltDeliciousGaming]

The old engine was so crisp. This new shiny garbage feels soooo much worse

[@Eman-cc1ws]

Former GM3 Hanzo 1 trick here - I've completely stopped playing the game at this point. Hanzo feels so awful to play, they removed all of the skill expression on the character and just turned him into a storm arrow bot. What pisses me off the most is that basically every take online about Hanzo right now is from bronze shitlords who got spam storm arrowed and think he is busted, so he's basically never going to be good again because Blizzard only reads the lowest IQ takes about the game for balance. RIP Hanzo, you didn't deserve this treatment.

[@jinch1]

He's just a shoot tank character now. The amount of value you get from bursting tanks is insane and so unfun to play as and against.

[@placidflunky6642]

FYI if you aren't already aware, in the 6v6 code / server has hanzo one shot back since everyone is 200hp again

[@brycenb2994]

Am I the only one who thinks Hanzo doesn’t need a one shot ? Storm arrow is solid and on a lower cooldown and they could easily add utility to his dash by giving it a second charge or the ability to horizontally run on walls (which I think would be super cool) they could buff his strafe speed while charges increase charging speed or even give him back his ability to pre charge before a wall climb. All aspects of his gameplay that don’t involve one shotting

[@thestranger1164]

​@brycenb2994 Honestly, with 6v6, I would keep the one shot but slightly nerf the bow drawback. Nerf Storm to 50 an arrow but allow hanzo to cancel it, reducing cooldown for each arrow not used. Skill expression is what makes this game or at least what made the game.

[@FreewaveFreeway]

@@brycenb2994he doesn’t need just storm arrow and leaps. You could just play tracer or ash at that point. His whole purpose was the high damage and low fire rate.

[@mvndoc]

Exactly. It's not fun when you get outplayed by characters and not skill.

[@ForbiddenZeros]

At the end of the day 5v5 is literally just a messy unbalanced free for all and blizzard can’t fix this there are just so many issues that blizzard can’t fix all of them unless you make the decision to just revert the game back to 6v6 and do a full reset I don’t see Ow surviving in the long run

[@bui3415]

But then people complain if projectile heroes are as viable as hitscan and call it "luck/spam"

[@its_lucky2526]

@@bui3415who's saying that above bronze 💀

[@slorbonmyknorb777]

Outpicked* fixed that for ya

[@ExclusiveExcellence]

Literally had to stop playing because I can’t play any hero’s I enjoy because people instantly lock Sombra and solo focus me to get their weak ass power fantasy off

[@thederpydazer]

It took 8 years but I’ve finally put the game down. Feels like too many aimless decisions being made causing one of my favorite games to feel like a complete husk of itself. It’s just too much

[@joeschipper6465]

Same man season 9 completely destroyed what little fun was left in this game

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

@@joeschipper6465 yep quit end of season 8, games so bad havent played since only 1 game here and there and im reminded of why i dont play anymore

[@BigDickMcFlick]

Respect to you for this. Blizzard is a bad relationship where we keep hoping "next patch will be better". Next patch isn't going to solve this game. The company had plenty of chances.

[@Akurych]

Me as well brotha . Games a mess rn.

[@hkeister1980]

I’m there with you bro

[@solidforge2016]

Just played the 6v6 code for the first time yesterday. It felt amazing on every role and I loved it. Being able to duel a tank felt incredible. As an OW2 support main in gold that never tried 6v6, it was so rewarding trying out some of the tank synergies and feeling so rewarded. Using both my bubbles to tank as Zarya to save my Rein who then got a 6 man shatter felt so rewarding. I really wanna see this format change SO bad. Tanking felt SO good. Incoming 6v6 tank main.

[@jarydjarjarsfasha2998]

What's the code?

[@TrollDude3]

​@@jarydjarjarsfasha2998 7HSKW

[@Rayn_528Hz]

@@jarydjarjarsfasha2998 7HSKW

[@fubusupporter5933]

⁠@@ThisIsExile91that’s stellar lmao but 6 v 6 is still better in a comp setting or not

[@FreewaveFreeway]

@@ThisIsExile91that’s exactly how the game works CURRENTLY. It’s not any different

[@TheFarslayer]

Wait I thought 5v5 made more play making opportunities? What is this?

[@BTRshow]

NGL when ow2 was made, that sale point got me. It did feel like the games were faster 😂 I didn't realize back then that it's because the game is now washed or get washed with how poorly balanced it is

[@its_lucky2526]

now there's 4 players you can duel instead of 6

[@degenerationx90]

It tried but then kept breaking the support and tank role while dps just got worse and worse

[@ccaesers]

5v5 is a choice that should have never happened, people predicted 5v5’s problems 3 years ago

[@YMan-zo5kg]

It’s cause of the health changes a couple seasons ago

[@AbbyAZK]

Perfect points made, actually have a rant in the works talking about how miserable dps is right now. Praying they fix this next season otherwise idk what to do anymore. Game feels so exhausting to play as DPS, you just have no control, no agency, non pop off moments, nothing.

[@avadanocum6495]

Lol, on dps u can dominate the game, ofc illiari, kiri and bap exist, but otherwise u can run the lobby when u are better than enemy dps

[@N1k7YT]

ABBY!!!!

[@Sahilow]

Excited for that🎉😊

[@wr2299]

@@avadanocum6495 You need to play more if that's your experience. No offense, but that's just not how it is.

[@202adr]

@@avadanocum6495 on the same 3 heroes, widow, ash, tracer. Otherwise its a counter pick to those like sombra, mccree. The others are annoying to plays as even if they can be played because of the dva and other tanks being so strong and the supports being strong too with having a lot of deniable with no skill.

[@TheRedEngima]

Rivals cured my overwatch addiction.

[@papakizer4081]

and now we are going through rivals withdraw. im having a rough time

[@TheRedEngima]

@@papakizer4081 I always go back to Skyrim. Everytime you mod it. It's a different game lol.

[@Cybrtronlazr]

"It just feels like I am doing so much meaningless chip damage just to try to get an attempt to get a kill." It's really funny that people have been saying the exact same thing since GOATS. OW2 was supposed to make oppressive comps like GOATS and Double Shield extinct but it's ironic how they doubled down on it and made the gameplay even worse than those two metas.

[@ComedyVault101]

It was literally fine until the health changes. The game was much faster paced and it never really felt like I was doing meaningless chip damage. The game feels really bad now but the first like 8 seasons of Overwatch 2 were MUCH better than GOATS meta

[@cl4709]

AOE burst healing. AOE burst healing. AOE burst healing. That’s it, that’s been the problem forever.

[@Cybrtronlazr]

@@ComedyVault101 the first 8 seasons of OW2 were also just as bad because things still didn't die or died too easily. The gameplay loop was also simplified to the point where I was seeing lobbies in diamond were people didn't group. Players just lost all their IQ and game sense and it turned into a CoD team deathmatch lobby.

[@nathancasey7712]

​@@Cybrtronlazrtrue, and magically everyone just stopped comming

[@nin_kirsuji5284]

​@@ComedyVault101I know that's cop cause even then there was counter watch and stupid ass supports and tanks being broken they lowered the skill ceiling and won't balance genji

[@jinch1]

Its literally gotten to the point that you NEED hard counters to kill these tanks, then tank players whine about counterswapping. Its like a never ending well.

[@sylinify]

yeah the thing not fun as tank is the forced couterswap........ it just sucks, have to hard swap.......

[@TheUnseenKrab]

As tank player I've sorta not cared in my mind I'm thinking "Oh he needs to counter cause I'm kicking his ass" I'll try to make it work unless he/ she is going DVA. Uhhhh Dva X_X

[@MLnyamada]

There is actually an end, when the tank player uninstalls the game, quitting for good, increasing queue times as the game loses tank players with each month

[@tryharderpls]

Simple add hero lock in at the beginning of the game instead of it being a counter fest, also it should be blind pick meaning you dont know who your against until your whole team locks in, make if about being good at your champ instead of swapping counters

[@Shatamx]

One thing that has caught my eye is one dps seems to get zero care. Like they get lost in the ether. And the rest of your team ignores you. While your enemy team picks up on that and takes advantage.

[@20ecupirate13]

With the projectile size changes, hitscan sizes were increased by 300-400% while travel time sizes were increased by 20-30%. The chasm between these archetypes is greater now than it’s ever been

[@garikek]

Came back to the game after a couple of months, struggled to kill rein as DPS. Went bastion, reaper, sym, torb. They don't work, idk. Rein just lives. Said fuck it and switched to support. Now I am chilling under my pylon and hitting ranks I've never been in before by hard locking illari every game. 75% winrate on her right now, it's just ridiculous.

[@SeanStaxxMusic]

What rank are you?

[@garikek]

@@SeanStaxxMusic gold/plat on DPS. Been always around plat on sup, but now am diamond with illari.

[@vape42069]

lol same, i decided to finish my placements on support after season 9 ranked changes and i placed higher than my dps which had double the amount of games played and im sitting at 80% winrate with illari

[@garikek]

@@vape42069 yeah. Same skills applied, but it's easier to aim, shots do more damage, has a better ult than most DPS and also has a damn pylon. If the game was open queue I would never ever pick DPS when illari exists. Feel like she'd have 60%+ pickrate in open queue just from DPS players switching to a better hero.

[@Lúci-o-ohs]

The dps role is permanently ashe, tracer, sombra, widow, cree, echo, pharah on a rotation with occasional other ones coming in and out for a patch

[@LampDoesVideogame]

You forgot pharah venture.

[@Punchbadguy]

Especially tracer, I'm so sick of playing against that little rat. She's been top 3 dps for almost entirety of Overwatch 2.

[@BTRshow]

Unfortunate the class has the most characters in it but half of the characters been completely useless for years now

[@Lúci-o-ohs]

@@LampDoesVideogame I was gonna say pharah and I'd agree. But not venture that much she wasn't good for a while and still isn't that amazing

[@engineergaming3830]

@@LampDoesVideogame pharah and venture ain't even hard to deal with now pharah lost her splash on concussion and venture literally can't do shit against a team that's together

[@williehawkinsii4845]

Bob gets the tank passive while still using the DPS passive

[@devindavon6615]

Yeah that's wild to me,literally the only person in the game with 2 catagory passives.

[@samhamwich518]

It’s crazy that they added that passive when Ashe was already pretty good and her ult has always been one of the best hitscan ults. Why buff it? It makes zero sense.

[@X_MANGO__]

Games felt really bad since season 9. I thought season 9 was good at first but after the paint wore off it sucks. Everyone having extra health has ruined ball.

[@Chopper5745]

thats exactly one of the reason i dislike overwatch 2 now , season 9 health was shit and mauga is the worst

[@Hsjackow]

absolutely agree, at first I thought season 9 health changes would've only affected hanzo, but now I realize he was just of the one most apparent ones. Most tanks got their breakpoints readjusted, but dps still feel terrible.

[@BTRshow]

I agree but ball is also busted in his own right. He too also has a truckload of health, just ball can't kill anything

[@reyc3ro]

I agree I play cas and Ashe and I feel like I'm playing a reload simulator

[@wheatbread8517]

tried the 6v6 custom game not even for the 6v6 just purely for the fact that health is not 250. feels so much better

[@GetQuakedOn]

hitscan op 😎

[@connor.chan.jazzman]

Have you played the 6v6 adjustments mode yet?

[@BTRshow]

People don't understand how scary dps doom was. You and zbra were literal nightmares back when doom was a damage characters

[@ForGnargnia]

Well its a competitive fps game.. so..

[@lickilicky5288]

@@BTRshowand how long did it take for them to stop feeding on dps doom and get the combos and consistency down compared to the consistency of ow1 cass? low skill ceiling, high value hitscan hero compared to high skill ceiling, mid value dps doom

[@Real_MisterSir]

We refuse to address support synergies relative to tank synergies, because tanks are upfront in your face, while supports can hide in the backline or on off angles. Players (and especially devs) have a great tendency to place higher value on what they feel pressured by, more than what's actually enabling more of that pressure. I can't remember if it was you Sam or Spilo, but someone made the analogy of facing an enemy Winston, where you feel like he's the bigger threat cus he's in your face with his bubble, but in reality the big threat is the Widow standing far behind him who pops your head. But Winston big, Winston in your face, Winston doing active damage and pressure. So he gets the attention and not the Widow. It's also the same reason people (especially in lower ranks) focus so much on Pharam+Mercy, compared to equally (if not more) oppressive synergies like Soldier+Mercy, or Ashe+Mercy. The main reason is, Pharah+Mercy visually stand out more because they fly. They naturally garner more attention, and thus more people focus on the "oppressive" Pharmercy duo, but never realize the comparable Soldier+Mercy comp can run lobbies much more consistently and is even harder to deal with than Pharah+Mercy ever was. Support synergies are never looked at, because they are not the frontline. They're not in your face. And when they're not, the devs and most players don't understand the immense value they bring. Simple as that.

[@itachi93674]

Most of the DPS are obsolete now. Literally can’t do shit with most of them . Instead they give zero skill heroes like Venture big has boxes where they don’t even need to aim to hit you.

[@geert574]

Venture has 3m range how is she hitting anything before dying to random supertank

[@Kiddos77]

want to talk about bullshit hitbox lets talk about hanzo where he doesnt even need to aim anywhere near tracers head and get a headshot, i have 2 hours on hanzo and i won every single game with him easily

[@MetalSam25]

Projectile characters are all bs

[@nic0856]

The fact that a lot of oneshots are being removed due too the lack of an offtank but widow of all characters is allowed to keep the most unfair oneshot in the game is just wild to me. Like change the 1shot if it's gotta stay too have less effective range first of all and maybe make her %charge slowly decrease again when it reaches 100% so she can't hardscope angles with her oneshot ready but actually has to move around and find surprise angles

[@BTRshow]

It's easier and more fun to allow one shots in the game and to go back to 6v6. Widow's one shot wasn't really that big of an issue in OW1

[@joelang4709]

One shots are good for the game you get punished for playing poorly 90% of the time and the other 10% you just got outskilled

[@itslyz5541]

⁠@@BTRshowyeah especially when they take out one of your support “team fight” over on top of that you could just send a dva/monkey over to take good care of her

[@YMan-zo5kg]

It’s amazing that people even had more of a problem with hanzo one shot over widow. Widow shouldn’t get a one shot if that gun isn’t 100% charged that’s forsure.

[@Sizzyl]

​@@3dlongmire5941 shots are a great part of this game, disagreeing with you doesnt make this guy play lmao

[@Kootsworth]

Just a side note regarding hitscan and season 9. This shit lowered the skill ceiling so much too, look at what they did to Cassidy. Increased bullet size > damage range nerf > right click nerf. He felt so much more fun when your skill was actually rewarded. Meanwhile Illari is 3x more effective at a distance. Fuck this game, revert season 9.

[@masift1494]

I played 6v6 and felt genuine joy playing DPS. Went back to 5v5 and could not believe that I'd been playing this garbage for almost 2 years

[@vhyles]

As long as you didn't buy anything you're good 👍🏻 Otherwise we encourage Blizzard to continue supporting this shit game.

[@AirBendinCat]

What’s the 6v6 code? I’ve been wanting to try it but kept finding 6v6 modes that were goofy

[@WhatAMagician]

Decrease support damage increase dps damage, nerf everyone’s hp slightly and reduce tank armor. They have to bring this back to arena shooter roots and let people actually die

[@geert574]

on them huge walking sim robot maps?

[@perm1thurple581]

It sucks that OW2 seems to have a problem making every role feel good. When DPS and Supp feel good, Tank feels like shit When Tank and Supp feel good, DPS feels like shit When DPS and Tank feel good, Supp feels like shit

[@legendnumberm]

Honestly as a support main, the game feels best (and has always felt best) when support feels like "shit." I use "shit" in quotes because from at least some I've been playing in 2019, supports have never actually been weak and when they were "weak," you just needed to improve your movement, positioning, and rotations. Support main tears has been ruining the game for years.

[@kommandantkillcode]

@@legendnumbermI wholeheartedly agree. I enjoyed support the absolute most at the beginning of 5v5 because I knew that if I played well, there was a lot I could do to both fight of DPS and keep my team alive. Now it feels like most support heroes are hand-held, except for Lucio.

[@amadhatter3280]

As a projectile player (when I play DPS) I feel you man, my most played (dps) hero is Junkrat because he's my favorite (dps) hero to play & Blizzard fucked him over. Firstly they NERFED TRAP!? The f'ing worse ability in the game got nerfed in OW2 yet Kiriko can teleport through walls & has a immortally?, they took away one shot combo with the health buffs (unless you hit them point blank with the mine) but let Sojourn one shot you from across the map & now you can't even use tire to kill tanks.

[@yabito]

i said once and i will say it again, remove pasives and projectile size.

[@brycenb2994]

Why? Different projectiles should have different hit boxes and passives have always been in the game. Tracer and genji run faster, JQ bleed and doom overhealth, Shimada wall climb and even mercy float are all passives that no one ever complains about

[@Name-u5k1z]

@@brycenb2994I think he means the heal passives

[@yabito]

@@Name-u5k1z correct, heal pasives, knockback pasives, less healing pasives. and hanzo is throwing logs instead of arrows. with heal pasive make useless the "blue" health bar. zen, zayra, sym, sigma. all those heroes have 2 types of auto fill health bars, that fill at different rates. whyyyyy

[@Kiddos77]

@@brycenb2994 nerf hanzo arrow hitbox in tracer its stupid

[@Fetapower]

Genji in movie: cut through a Titan Genji in Game: cant even cut through a piggy boy

[@masift1494]

can't even cut through a cowboy at this point. The cunt has 275HP

[@steelheart538]

He just has a pool noodle.

[@soulstealer6592]

Genji is like comic book Spider Man They both get treated poorly by The people in charge -Both are the golden boys of their franchise. -Both are fun to play and exciting to watch characters but Their license holder keeps making them pathetic and weak -Both characters are very profitable so companies try to milk there cows by making crap design (“”new”” Genji skins are just recolor, Miles Adidas suit & Spectacular Semen-Man) -Both of them deserve so much better

[@hgge-j6d]

@@soulstealer6592 spider man is gay andrew tate roasted him too hard

[@kyle57688]

I just started the video, but as a HS player those heroes mostly still feel like shit to play imo. That’s because the game feels Shit though not necessarily the characters themselves. Though I do think it’s harder to break a hitscans identity as compared to projectile because at the end of the day hitscan weapons always feel the same. Projectiles can vary insanely in how they feel based on map matchups patches. This has led to some heroes getting shafted with the balance changes in OW2 I’m looking at genji who got nerfed because of the s1 passive, but never received compensatory buffs when it got changed. I’m not sure it’s the devs “favoring” hs as much as not understanding how changes affect projectile heroes. They are way more complicated in the way they interact with the game. Hs is either you click and instantly hit someone or instantly miss. That consistency allows for easier understanding of what makes them good/bad and fun/boring.

[@APerson-si8jr]

@@3dlongmire594 That isnt the reason. Hitscan is unfun for many of the same reasons that projectile is unfun. Raid boss tanks, pointless chip damage, and busted supports that can 1v1 me. You guys say hitscan bias like hitscan isn't suffering too. Nobody on the dps roster is having fun right now. Its like saying "well, I have stage 4 cancer, but you only have stage 3 so..." Sure, but we both still have cancer, and neither of us is having any luck or fun here.

[@yoku_UwU]

This is probably an accurate guess as to why they struggle to keep projectile characters in a healthy state.

[@Aroused_Milk]

I like hearing you complain. As a OW1 and OW2 off tank main ( even if I’m the only tank I’m still an off tank at heart)

[@Misohawnnn]

I forgot if it was in the dev stream but Marvel Rivals devs said they’re focusing on heroes being able to have a 50/50 percentage of 1v1’s doesn’t matter the role and I have kinda seen that in play

[@rockurox]

Coming from a tank and support main: I REALLY want our damage numbers nerfed. It's genuinely not fun (for me) to get more value out of dealing damage over healing/supporting/utility. Call it healbotting, but I really just miss the playstyle of enabling my dps to make the plays, not being forced to make them myself.

[@The_ASMR_Listener]

They did 5v5 so the game can be balanced and easier to follow along in espots highlights but the game has gone through so many micro changes that the game now became a Chinese knockoff of itself

[@LampDoesVideogame]

They made the game 5v5 because 1. They knew they were cancelling pve and had to justify making OW2 more "different" than 1. 2. The devs were forced to rush OW2 engine, and 6v6 in the current engine we have wouldn't be feasible whatsoever on the Switch. They admitted both of these reasons.

[@raamoo_]

bro w take man damn

[@cl4709]

I swear OW2 feels like a mobile game. It feels like Overwatch Lite. It feels like something you would play while waiting in ranked queue.

[@bc6607]

The amount of games where I see people hitting over 15k DMG with only like 13 kills is insane

[@candy1049]

What sucks about Overwatch 2 is that DPS heroes need to "play well" by - sweating their ass off, constantly hitting headshots, predicting ability usage and cooldowns. And for supports... "playing well" is pressing a button in someone's general direction. Which means that, sometimes, even if you do REALLY well as a damage hero, you'll probably still perform "worse" and have your skillful plays negated entirely by a support hero who's doing the bare minimum without any work. Not to mention, support heroes, in general, just have SO much more going for them. It seems like most of the supports that have been added in OW2 just ignore the "power budgeting". Kiriko, especially, who is good at everything, can counter everything (without having to change how she plays), doesn't have any weaknesses, and is also extremely easy to play. She's the textbook definition of a "Broken, no effort" hero.

[@brycenb2994]

Sounds like someone who has never played support ngl. Please use kirko in any high level or even mid level for that matter and show me all the “free value” she gets

[@lickilicky5288]

@@brycenb2994suzu is not hard to land, (despite what many boosted support players say) she has an easy tp that goes through walls for getting out of any situation or to get back to your team if u took an angle, and u ult first on kiri towards the enemy team when they aggress, whats so hard about that?

[@izzulartt]

​@@brycenb2994 lol, telling us ur a dps kiriko without telling us ur a dps kiriko

[@candy1049]

@@brycenb2994 I actually started Overwatch as a diehard support main back in late 2016. On the topic of Kiriko specifically, even though I hate her guts and want whoever made her to be exiled to Antarctica, she's one of the two supports I primarily play in comp, and the reason why is simply because of her overcompensated and bloated kit that gives you free value without really having to do much work. All these people claiming she requires some kind of PhD are hardcore coping.

[@brycenb2994]

@@candy1049 I don’t think she requires a phD but people def overhype the “free value”

[@BTRshow]

I LOVE to give damage players crap, but imma be honest. In 5v5, tanks are kaijus, Literal titans. In 5v5, supports have to be able to heal/keep up a kaiju that is in the middle of WW3. Oddly tho 🤔 in 5v5, ive seen so many dmg characters get nerfed to uselessness. Why? For a damage character to be able to handle a tank, they have to be able to DESTROY a squishy and devs dont like that ig. Its impossible to balance damage in 5v5 because they have to handle tanks but cant be too strong against squishies. Sure, some characters like pharah and sombra got overtuned/hyper buffed to make them "accessible" but they show that even if the dmg is strong, doesnt mean theyre good for the game/balanced. The 5v5 format makes damage characters an accessory. They can help you win but its truly up to the tank and supports to do anything, which is why tank feels miserable. 5v5 as a format is naturally anti-damage class. No way you can balance damage in the format without making them busted. Throw the format away

[@YMan-zo5kg]

The problem is not dps being impossible to balance, it’s tank. Tank can be balanced but then all the tank players complain and hate it, so they make the tank busted so the tank players can enjoy it more and then dps and support can’t enjoy it as much.

[@BTRshow]

@YMan-zo5kg you can say it makes all 3 roles impossible to balance but I think balancing damage is low key their biggest balance failure as of late. Hyper buffing tank was idiotic but damage been the ugly step child for a while now. Even the best dmg players feel helpless in most games. Truly tho, 5v5 makes ALL 3 roles impossible to balance. Either it's busted or unusable. Really unhealthy format if balance is the goal in general.

[@Logan-bk8lz]

Season 9 ruined what good was left of this game.

[@adamjames8419]

fact

[@bui3415]

Disagree, it made one shots and burst less annoying. They just left some hit-scanners with their one shots and they should've adjusted them individually too.

[@Vastspartan]

​@@bui3415it ruined the game. It takes twice as much damage to confirm a kill. Metal rank take

[@hgge-j6d]

@@bui3415 if u had any type of skill beforehand u should be upset but ur not so ur the idiot noobs they slowed the game down for

[@Bighoodiekid]

@@bui3415yeah no these last couple of seasons have genuinely been terrible

[@Real_MisterSir]

I'd say currently Winston is the absolute worst offender of tank power -creep- sprint. If he targets you, and jumps to isolate you, there's borderline nothing you can do except hope your entire team comes to bail you out before you're dead. And even if they do, even if you don't die, he'll have his resources back up and can just jump out for free. I should know, I run Winston 90% of the time in my own tank queue games and I roll teams like I'm playing vs teams 2 tiers below me. It's mental. Basically the game has devolved into which giga tank can kill off more of the enemy team than the other, in the shortest span of time. Cus that's all tanks can do now. They don't actually control space, they don't act as a threat in an area that is hard to push them out of (compared to dps and supports). They literally just are big hunking killing machines that you can't avoid at the times where it's most crucial. 5v5 has forced the game to be so insanely scrappy, death matchy, and mind-numbingly dumbed down to the point where if enemy tank sees you and wishes to target you, you're dead. Funny you mention the thing about damage. Yesterday my ally dps had 4.6k damage and 0 kills. And they weren't just bad, it's just nothing was dying and our tank simply got diffed so we had no space to work with, and every opportunity just devolved into "run from enemy tank, do chip damage, hope that eventually enemy team falls asleep and lets our tank actually do what they're supposed to do". And I don't envy our tank that game. They had way too much responsibility relative to their skill and team synergy. What a world it'd be if there was, lets say, a second tank to help alleviate some of that frontline responsibility...

[@TheIndulgers]

I miss the day before role queue. When the roles were far less defined, and all heroes were viable in a 1v1.

[@cl4709]

True. Role queue would’ve never been introduced if Brig was ever properly nerfed.

[@bui3415]

That wasn't really a thing. There were less heroes but there were definitely some set metas up until goats and that lasted a few months before 2-2-2. What you're saying is, you miss the very early launch days where you can pick anything and not get flack for it while there was no established meta yet but people quickly figured out what was busted quickly and told each other to play roles or heroes if you were in competitive.

[@jrodd13]

I stopped playing Overwatch as soon as Hanzo and Junk lost their one shots (identities) They already removed my old main being DPS Doom so I just don't even want to try and play these other heroes when it doesn't even matter because I just get walled by an 800hp tank. Overwatch 2 started off amazing because everything was fresh and we didn't understand how bad it was. But as it gone on for these 2 years I realize just how unfun the game is.

[@LeSpank1012]

my friends and i used to play every night, safe to say we've quit the game. even if they fix it, game is not worth playing anymore. hope marvel rival is good. it's funny cause i thought samito kinda just rages over the game but now i find myself sharing a lot of the same opinion. this season is the worse man. went from endorsment lv 4 back to 1

[@thekleanupkrew8381]

Overwatch 2 is such a downgrade that not only tanks are miserable, so are the dps! LMAO OW1 was lightning in a bottle and they clearly didn’t know how to manage that kind of energy nor where to direct it

[@korlin507]

I hate ow 2 rn too but ow1 had its fair share of problems id say ow 1 is tap water and ow2 is sewage water both will never be better than bottled water

[@trentd.]

I had 31k Damage in a Comp Game as Zarya. My DPS had 9k and 11k Damage at the End of the Match. Insane Balance Issue.

[@RhodesianSuperiority]

I miss Marvel Rivals

[@Nigels_Wrld]

same man

[@BTRshow]

Rivals isn't even out and it was a superior game. Why? It was actually FUN, that's why 😂

[@RhodesianSuperiority]

@@BTRshow HUGE TRUE

[@ZarelidT]

Play TF2 if this is how you feel.

[@BTRshow]

@ZarelidT eh, tf2 is more fun than overwatch so understandable

[@jacobbaartz7710]

Agree on a hitscan bias to a degree, only i think its moreso incapability than deliberation. Be it from maybe blurred peripheral effects that hide the stats on why flex/hitscan feels so unfavourable.

[@T0B1.]

Not saying there isn't a hitscan bias, but the only thing keeping phara in check rn is giga buffed dva (she had a 60% win rate for most of the season). The devs also giga nerf soj to where she's basically unplayable, which is pretty deserved tbh. The whole role is just a shit show due to all the overbuffed tanks and broken supports.

[@SamitoFPS]

They did nerf her pretty hard as well tho

[@T0B1.]

@@SamitoFPS True, but the range nerfs on cass pretty much leaves ashe as her only reliable dps counter. I'm masters and her recent win rate on overbuff still hovers a little under 55%. She's not as broken, but still pretty oppressive.

[@Mr.Reality]

@@SamitoFPS And don't forget that new shitty flying hitscan support. Which is literally another nerf to pharah.

[@RikanGG]

I'm just going through the motions in OW2, wins, losses? They do not matter anymore, just waiting for Rivals to finalize the divorce.

[@footur3179]

I don't play as often now but whenever I do absolutely nothing (as a tank player) but yet I still have the most damage/elims in the game and it's kinda just like... How?

[@BTRshow]

Damage class has the lowest skill floor out every other class, but tbf, it is hard to play even for good players. If you're playing tank, kinda have to accept that alot of the pressure to win is actually on you

[@jacobbaartz7710]

With one less tank and more open maps in 5v5 we will just see dps have an easier time accessing backliners. Resultantly, to maintain the status quo, those backliners will need fortification. I think dps in the past have had the ability to secure the kill on an enemy with exclusively their own firepower and mechanics, i.e. effective one shots. Its this feeling that we buffed healthpools for. Now maybe the part of dps that was fun was that you had the option to out-mechanic anything, and we're just gymbal locked now.

[@trxpmetal]

Nah man support is hella garbage atm. The only role that matters is tank. Till low masters tank diffs decides the outcome of my matches.

[@PunchM3]

How, supports literally have abilities that can completely change a match up even if the tank got counter swapped.

[@ZzsiegzZ]

@@PunchM3support is just who can pocket the tank the hardest and who has a better Q and can press it better. Or go illari and dps

[@Arkhariel]

Extremely necessary video. Everything on point, especially the analysis over the gap between projectile and hitscan dps and how the bigger health pools causes that.

[@eggwuheggwuheggwuh]

High ttk pc gaming is dead - we have got to accept this as a community. You can choose between playing a stupid noskill roleplay game like overwatch, compete against controller aimbot in apex/call of duty, or just play a boring low ttk game like valorant. Edit for the rude guy in my replies: Low ttk means “low time to kill”. Meaning it takes a very short period of time to kill someone (R6S, CSGO, VAL) in comparison to a high time to kill game where you have to track someone for a sustained period of time to kill them. (Overwatch, Apex, etc.)

[@Tutualoe]

how is val a low ttk game?

[@dannyphan1088]

Valorant literally has a 1 shot kill sniper rifle, marksman rifle, assault rifle, and pistol. Where the fuck did you get your information?

[@eggwuheggwuheggwuh]

@@Tutualoe most people are killed within 1 to 2 shots

[@eggwuheggwuheggwuh]

@@dannyphan1088 excuse me with the attitude - where did you get yours? do you even know what time to kill means? maybe use your head before you leave an angry comment like a child

[@Tutualoe]

@@eggwuheggwuheggwuh mb i got it mixed up in my head ur right lol

[@MaceDoGe_]

When all the content creation for a game is just negative rants and complaining from the players you know the game is terrible, OW2 is so cooked

[@5080yen]

Or it brings in the money

[@leonardoiannella]

​@@5080yenwise guy.

[@drantino]

the thing i find impressive if im remembering correctly is the fact that our dmg per kill is being higher then it was when we tracked shield dmg as part of our dmg stat.

[@axell9130]

I miss you 6v6

[@nemir6872]

Yeah, cuz DPS had SO MUCH impact in 6v6, oh wait....

[@Kiddos77]

@@nemir6872 in the 6v6 custom gamemode i feel like i had impact on any hero i play (i am plat and play against some diamonds and gm) i can go junkrat and get value, i can go tracer and actually win against a support,

[@metal100k]

The orders of magnitude of a skill diff there needs to be for the dps to actually carry in ow2 is insane. You can 1v5 a fight and coinflip the chances of actually winning the fight. While the tank can make a half a mistake and instantly lose the fight.

[@Bakiphysique]

I miss rivals so much man😢

[@LxRazer]

The Season 9 Health changes completely gutted Genji. It takes so much more shurikens to kill a single target that you’re better off going in, baiting out a few CDs (since they have more time to react with more HP) and then getting out, and then doing that the whole match.

[@thewuthgraad685]

Hey Sam, whos your favorite rapper of all time? 19:01

[@xxOZZYxxx]

I used to love to just hop on and just play some comp, now I can stomach about 2 games. I’m diamond 5 slash plat, so I speak for the majority of the player base. It’s just not fun anymore.

[@chipsmann8286]

i havent played dps in years now because they are weak af, tank always the best role.

[@ungo_the_don]

I really wish they were more open with their data. Despite telling us on several interviews that 6v6 is a minority issue, I still call bullshit. Without actual unbiased data, I can't take their word for it. Every person I've talked to personally (not circlejerk posts on R*ddit) hates 5v5 and wants 6v6 to come back. Even if that's a small sample size, they're all people I know personally and not just randos on the internet.

[@PSYDET]

I love getting basically 2 tapped against a hitscan "support" who has a pylon that heals her making it like 2 times more difficult to win against her 🥰

[@brycenb2994]

Literally 80% of the dps have faster ttk than illari

[@lickilicky5288]

@@brycenb2994but a quarter of the survivability and a lot of the time, a worse ult

[@hgge-j6d]

@@brycenb2994 Okay but those dps have to be in range of the illari whos been shooting them in the entire time while being auto healed by a pylon in a completely broken spot where its genuinely impossible to break unless you were the illari

[@brycenb2994]

@@hgge-j6d on certain maps sure but otherwise no. Illari pylon gets broken a lot and now with the higher downtime she’s half a character without pylon. And her falloff is the same as most other dps at 30-50. So she can’t challenge you from any further of a range than most other dps can challenge her back

[@Elmo914]

@@brycenb2994 Its so much cope these dps players are so salty they can't one tap someone anymore. Looking at the tiers on several websites, the top heavy dps like cassidy, echo and pharah are still dominating and being played at all levels. They're all just mad they can't just single handily win because they left click.

[@jaivettasheem1314]

The new argument is if you're doing bad as a DPS player your team flames you and tell you get more kills yet now it feels you can't even get kills if everyone wants targeting one person. junkrat and genji and hanzo feel terrible and I been playing them since season 1 ow1

[@AskMoonBurst]

I wanted to play Mei, but they removed her freeze, so she can't threaten Roadhog. They made her slow less, so she can't threaten Wrecking Ball. They gave more ways to clear it to tanks and supports. They removed her one shot on Tracer. They made her ult more expensive, so it's less often. Raised mobility so no one can get caught in it anymore. And added passive healing options, so some characters can get caught in her ult with the wall used, and STILL not die while focus fired by her the entire duration. Mei is a worse Hanzo at this point, and you're saying Hanzo isn't good enough. So where does that leave Mei?

[@SamitoFPS]

Yeah Mei post season 9 a huge loser, I loved playing her before but she’s way worse I agree, she can be good in brawl comps at least

[@xX-Anonymous-Xx]

Saying that Mei is somehow worse than Hanzo is one of the stupidest takes I have ever seen. Her Ultimate is STILL absolutely BROKEN and can STILL wipe out entire squads, she can still COMPLETELY SELF-HEAL, and her ice spikes do crazy damage. All Hanzo can do is climb up walls and spam his Storm Arrow. Tell me how in the haberdashery, black magic, sandwich FUCK Mei is somehow just as bad as Hanzo and not EXPONENTIALLY BETTER?

[@AskMoonBurst]

@@xX-Anonymous-Xx Anything can sound good if you ignore all the downsides. Like Mei can't move while she's in cryo so everyone can set up around her. That she has no mobility, anyone with mobility can just leave her ult. Hanzo's arrows do noticably more than Mei's shots as well. But they're both in pretty bad spots.

[@styleOwO]

season 9 has to be the worst update this game has had, too many breakpoint changes not enough compansations to most of the roster ,most of the heros played now were already played pre season 9 they made these changes to reduce reliance on burst damage and healing and just made both mandatory as a result

[@saladguy2252]

Drones have single handedly ruined the support role

[@saladguy2252]

And Bob only sleeps for 3 seconds now (from 6)

[@bui3415]

@@saladguy2252 Honestly Bob is a nonissue in most games.

[@saladguy2252]

@bui3415 that's only considering ashe is a must-pick this season

[@AzozSh-h5t]

I honestly think your views will get so much better if you do game reviews. You so entertaining to watch because you seem so honest and straight to the point unlike so many youtubers.

[@blaise3965]

well sam are we forgetting the fact the last 2 metas are both flex dps heroes? that being venture pharah, tracer echo, the only one even decent rn (hitscan) is ashe.

[@Gegadigo]

Cass is good in some maps

[@ghoulbuster1]

Then they got nerfed into trash tier lol

[@Bossking1]

@@Gegadigopreferably tho with the tank comps you should probably go tracer echo

[@raiden4613]

Pharah is trash if you have semi decent aim, venture is trash, tracer and echo are the fairest heroes in the game you only die to them if you’re awareness is garbage or you have bad aim and even then (mainly for tracer) you can play brig and torb both of which make tracer useless

[@commandercorgi]

@@raiden4613if you lose against torb brig on tracer you’re the problem man

[@Excadunked]

Not to mention, most of the DPS role has been watered down to the point where all uniqueness from other characters is completely lost. Cass shoot gun close range. Ashe shoot gun mid range. Widow shoot gun far range. Soldier shoot gun (maybe a rocket). And even the builders like torb and sym don't even feel like true builders anymore. There just doesn't feel like a huge reason to play one character from another except for slightly different damage changes. Idk it just feels like all creativity has been lost over the years :(

[@brycenb2994]

Hasn’t this always been the case? Soldier widow and cass have all remained relatively unchanged since the game came out. That’s nothing 5v5 created

[@coal159]

@@brycenb2994 The Idea is that, now it's. Hanzo?, Worse Cass/Ashe/Widowmaker. Junkrat?, Throw pick because he lacks his combo. Mei?, Almost entirely worthless to play. They've stripped alternative heros of their power and identity meaning you have to play these heroes to get value, and playing others feels like you're throwing.

[@Haunsa1]

the honzo nerf they called a buff is how that change should have been labeled. kinda proves blizzard dont play the hero;s because they called it a buff.

[@seltzer3907]

5:01 perfect example of how useless hanzo ult is

[@mckookie2967]

76 is my most played hero and I have to say that playing Punisher in Rivlas was sooo much fun in comparison. Being able to 1v1 a tank and actually have a chance of killing them if u used my smoke and shotgun correctly was so much fun

[@thebearded4427]

I think the issue is that if all heroes are playable in all situations then it just becomes a game of "who can do the same thing the best". Overwatch have lost the team composition focus where different heroes covered eachothers weaknesses. I played the OG zen with 150 health, no knockback or self heals to 4k. The reason that was even possible was because I used voice coms to call for help if I was dove. The hero in itself had blatant weaknesses that the other side could play to exploit. These days everyone can do everything. The entire situation with double shield could have been negated had they just removed Baps jump or self heal, leading to flanking counterplay where he had to field himself or his tanks, making for risk reward play for both sides. Instead he had a kit that allowed him to counter any counterplay while also performing his role. My point is that OW went from a game where your knowledge about the game and team play was more important than the current strongest hero where you play solo. The fact that you could have OPTs to that degree and still win games is, while it also being a major pain point for the player base, is pretty telling evidence of that.

[@TwigAidsVG]

Even with almost 500 hours playing Genji, whenever I pick him in 5v5, I feel like I'm soft throwing. He's that bad.

[@YoJoeDizzle]

Glad you address the hitscan bias, my friends always ask me why I don’t like the game anymore and it’s just so unrewarding as a projectile dps player.

[@kyleisreal_tv]

I actually miss old reaper and roadhog. Speaking of burst damage not being able to close the gap with shotguns sucks. You would think a pointblank headshot from a roadhog and reaper would kill but it actually doesn’t and hitting pointblank headshots as reaper and hog is harder then you think when you deal with characters like Ana ada strafing you while getting a double pocket from healing turrets and nade so you are forced to hit 3 perfect headshots in a row as reaper or 6 body shots without getting 1 shotted you’re self and time to kill has actually gone way up it feels impossible once you start playing against players that understand their abilities cooldowns. Because you reach a point where it doesn’t matter how good your aim is healing is just way to strong. In overwatch 1 a headshots from reaper and hog actually did 1 shot through those crazy bursts of healing. It’s almost like putting extra hp on everything hurts everyone. It should not take 6 shots with a shotgun to kill a Ana with healing turret man wtf is that. You know it’s tragic when you’re mains are unless against support

[@Kiddos77]

even if you break the healing turrets, ana can nade herself and you causing 100 dmg and healing and then dealing 70 per shot on you while being healed by 120hps by illari, i honestly think no dps can 1v1 a tank nor a support

[@crack-man4071]

And still, support mains shit on genji and say that he doesn’t need buffs and that we are just crying

[@hgge-j6d]

moira players are oxygen thiefs. lucio too

[@Punchbadguy]

I feel like one thing people are forgetting is that the projectile increase was way better for hitscan compared to projectile. I have been finding hitting shots on hitscan characters way more compared to the majority of the projectile characters post season 9. The only projectile dps I find hitting consistent shots with are the ones with fast projectiles. Honestly I feel like the best change they can do is just speed up a couple of the projectiles (cough cough junkrat cough cough).

[@engineergaming3830]

cuz hitscan heroes are easy to pick up it's literally look at someone and shoot

[@leonardoiannella]

Perfect, go do that then, see you in top 500.

[@ottovonbismarck5426]

I'm worried not enough people talk about junkrat being absolutely garbage now, even compared to hanzo or mei.

[@xXLJoseph]

Tbh i dont think that just the DPS role suffers from Super Tanks or Super Supports. I think a part of the Support role suffers aswell. I love playing Ana and Zen but both Heros arent that fun anymore. Ana basically gets nerfed every season because her abilities can be annoying to play against as a solo tank And people dont talk about Zen, my personal fav hero. Zen feels awful to play rn. Idc what people say about Discord orb being overpowered. Imo Discord orb just becomes problematic against the solo Tank but not against the other roles. This season 7 change made him feel very clunky and unfluid to play and especially since Season 9 because you cannot 2 Tab a squishy anymore even with Discord orb He feels even worse. The enemy can LoS my Discord orb and 25% of my own damage is gone. And even If i dont instantly Discord an enemy, 25% of my own damage are also gone. Imo just remove the Snap kick passive because Zen should be a full Glass Canon and remove this cooldown on Discord at least for DPS and Supports.

[@Ejziponken1]

Haha I play Ana 99% of the time. I went from being master3/4 in season 7 and 8 to plat/diamond now.. :P I actually had gold players in my team today.

[@thiefpotato2759]

I have a theory that Illari was originally made to be a dps, but they either: saw the reception to LW or didnt know what to do with her kit to make her compete with Cass/Widow/Ashe/76/Sojourn. Like think about it: Kiriko/Sojourn/JQ were released on OW2 release. Thats 3 of each. What was the other character released afterwards. Rammatra, LifeWeaver, and then Illari. It makes more sense for them to release 1 tank, 1 support, and 1 DPS. Especially since Sojourn was the only dps for like years. Idk, I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I do think that Illari was never suppose to be a support and none of her lore refers to her as a healer. I think it was a last minute decision. Edit: The reason why the devs nor the fanbase will talk about support synergies is because people would finally realize that Lucio having speed boost off cd is extremely problematic and there is too much cognitive dissonance in the community for that to actually happen. Brig and Lucio synergize too well with other supports and Lucio is the fan fav support.

[@jrg7777]

My main mode I play right now is Open Queue Comp. DPS is literally unplayable and you get yelled at the moment you pick one. It wasn't great before but it's 100x worse in that mode.

[@Quinnaka]

For the love of LINDENHOLM BUFF TORB I've got ides. 1.update torbs turrent feels so weak I've noticed mercy, zen, Lucio, tracer, sombra,phararah, any weak health characters can eat its shoots its supposed to make them afraid of it not think of it as a massage. 2. His shoutgun blows first a star spread pattern litteraly any skinny character can bypass it easily especially at medium to close ranges at least give it a circle shape spread or make the pellets bigger or it does more damage to compensate he'll at close ranges it feels like a cotton ball instead of a shoutgun. 3.either update his rivit gun rate of fire or give it more damage its hard enough cause it's a arcing weapon along with slow fire making it a hope to hit weapon when half to all characters can dodge easily. 4. Let it ditect sombra some say the turrent is a alarm the let it PING ALLERT SOMBRA AND FIRE AT HER there's times where a sombra make the game unbearable especially with unlimited invisible powers. Anny torb mains don't be afraid to chip in and give thoughts same as everybody else.

[@Lugia-]

You asked, my answer. Yeah it feels like hitscan is way easier to play, I always swap to Cass, Ashe or Tracer when I really have to try. And as a GM, not T500 rn, my Echo isn't bad but gets farmed by 2 taps. :(

[@noahgoss5552]

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I thought I was the only one who felt this way and thought I just shouldnt be a dps main because it just feels so much harder this season! I honestly am so bored of the game rn too because it is just way too stressful to play dps rn it just feels overwhelming since the tank buffs. Even my friends who play casually got off dps because of the overbuffed tanks

[@Outfled]

I was a genji main for most of overwatch 1. i started playing hanzo towards the end and have been maining him ever since. i went from playing almost everyday, to playing maybe once or twice a month. i miss the original game

[@simonjohnson3424]

Going back to Overwatch from Marvel Rivals was so sad. I realized how absolutely bored I am of this game. I know Marvel Rivals and Overwatch are played quite differently but I honestly think a big part of what made Marvel Rivals so much fun was 6v6. We need it back in OW. And this is coming from someone who’s been a 5v5’er since OW2 launched even though I’ve played since 2016. 6v6 had its problems but I think it’s needed to shake up the game in a big way, but I also just think it’s more fun than the current state of OW. Hero identity plays a big part in this. The hero identity is there in Marvel Rivals. I realized just how much some character lacked identity after going back to OW

[@ghxulish]

I would genuinely be fine with the game if they nerfed dva and zarya a bit and either deleted sombra or just remove her invisibility. Sombra alone ruins the game and honestly even when you win against a sombra its not even fun to play against her. Just a shitty hero.

[@8irch]

as a player who has never played overwatch 1 but has played overwatch 2 from the start damage has always been the role i played. up until now i would say i played it 95% of the time but I must say i have been playing tank and support for the last couple days because the dps role is absolutely gutted right now. my main--genji, has been completely left behind and is now utterly useless. I have no idea what the devs are doing but I hope they fix these glaring issues with the game soon

[@Kintaku]

I’d argue Cassidy hasn’t always had his gameplay pattern maintained. But more importantly, I think the hit scan “bias” is just the result of hit scan being easier to deal with. Projectiles are harder to land, so they should reward on hit, but inversely they feel bad to die to, which puts the balance team in a tough place and they just barely touch those heroes. Not saying it’s good or fair but it does make sense.

[@6torthor]

The part that I still find incredibly frustrating is people using the dmg stat as an indicator of success, like homie if you think 10k damage with 1 elim is an indicator of understanding the fundamentals of the game you need to drop rank immediately

[@TheRedRos]

played the 6v6 code, genuinely awful experience. Lucio was more successful at countering dive than Brig, which was, interesting... (bad) Problems like Pylon, Immo field, Suzu and Life Grip are even worse because they are either more protected or can affect more people. DPS just run at supports endlessly with the supports having a genuine 0% chance to win that interaction even if you outplay them overall, yea, if you play DPS, it'll be fun but that code only moved from Mega tanks to Mega DPS and from tank counterswapping to support counterswapping.

[@skybreach4262]

As a Hanzo main of 5+ years, it is wretched what they have done. I have basically left the game, don’t know if I’ll play it much ever again.

[@qveltz5258]

ive been on this for years since Brigitte was introduced. The support role is the source to most of the issues along with what 5v5 caused. They are making heros way to forgiving now days

[@youtubesewers915]

Ow2 is the most tilting game I've ever been a part of. Coming off a 25 day "account silence" for telling my teammate to stop feeding when the whole team was doing well but he was 1-13.. Games so woke and soft

[@LocalBombardier]

pre season 9 junkrat could primary+melee a tracer if they made the mistake of getting that close. now it leaves her at 10 hp :/

[@PunchM3]

Same with hanzo’s shot and melee combo

[@Kiddos77]

@@PunchM3 hanzo with shot melee combo can kill most of the ow2 cast?

[@xdgamer0189]

i love how i (playing venture) have to go all in doing my combos and my skill expression just for it to get shutdown because there was a pilon near by or mercy holding m1 etc etc

[@glurak]

illari is a joke what a horrible design literally should never been released as support. its unhealthy for the game and is a better than all dps

[@ZzsiegzZ]

I main tank/supp. Tank still feels bad, counterswappy, etc even tho some games are just hard carried bc I’m Godzilla stat wise now. In an even tank matchup, mostly decided by who has better support/support ults. For supps, healbotting into your tank with a meta char feels the best. When the tank is playing decent and the heals are good on their end it requires a ton of chip dmg with little reward. Also hard to punish the healbot supports as they have mobility and coordinated dive is rare in ranked