Overwatch Creators have LOST IT

[@SamitoFPS]

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[@darryltorres7302]

@@samwhitfield9543 alright dude calm down, it's not that serious.

[@darryltorres7302]

I don't know about this yeatle guy being a tank expert if these are the solutions he came up with, some of these solutions are a bit insane and overcomplicated. Honestly, I would simply just buff overall Tank health while nerf their damage slightly. They wouldn't get so oppressively countered if the counter tank isn't as much of a threat. The orisa meta as an example. While I didn't have much of an issue with Orisa being almost unkillable, however I did have an issue with Orisa being unkillable AND being able to kill opponents easily. Instead of Tanks being glorified dps with a shit ton of health, why not just take some of the dpsing and focus more on actual tanking like their name suggests? Also some supports also need a nerf to their damage mainly those that are ridiculously broken at 1v1, Bap looking at you.

[@BeastMode-bw2ry]

@samwhitfield9543 Wow this has got to be one of the best baits I've ever seen! Good job you almost got me!

[@memedumped]

@@samwhitfield9543 L take

[@impeeps5674]

He isn’t farming 6v6 content. If you can’t tell how passionate this man is about making the game better. Then your delulu brother. Sam is fighting to make the game better. I would be willing to bet money that 6v6 will make a return in the future. Idk the time frame, but I’d bet on 6v6 return eventually.

[@Silas_Kow]

More and more people seem to think that making every tank without weakness and having answer to all things is good design

[@BTRshow]

In 5v5, that's what you have to do with tanks. There is no way to do 5v5 and not have every tank be kinda busted. They're in a class of their own and there is only 1 tank per team, so it kinda has to be tanks being overtuned. Can't have reasonable balance with tanks after buffing tf out of damage and nerfing healing in a 5v5 scenario.

[@johnnymasterson7530]

As a tank main id be fine with playing rein that activates his shield is able to throw it forward like sigma, give me over health like wrecking ball. As well as firestrike giving bubbles to all teammates that it passes through as well as knocks enemies into walls stunning them. Also the ability to fly by tapping the jump button would be a cool feature. Lets have it blizzard!

[@skarloeythomas5172]

Because it is good design to push the game out of its awkward 5 v 5 stage, and is the only option without reverting to 6 v 6 or open queue. These suggestions are expressly about shoring up the easily exploitable weaknesses present in only one tank. It’s too easy to exploit, so tanks need ways to outplay that, lest he gets a second tank back to help.

[@darkvinc]

Yeattle take basically : make every tank cover their weaknesses and basically meld into one blob. Here is another idea in the same vein : every player is soldier 76 but with the ability to access highground...oh wait that's just Call of duty advanced warfare

[@vopcracker3193]

​@@skarloeythomas5172 5v5 still taught us a lot about how the game should be balanced; So much so that I maintain every change within 5v5 could have been implemented in 6v6 to much better reception if Tanking wasn't shafted for "queue times." 1) Support power creep focusing on their self-sustain and sparring with DPS was a necessary evil if you wanted to take defensive pressure off of Tank in general, especially if they're taking more CC and bullets overall w/o sheilds. Regardless, one of the biggest indictments against 5v5 is that despite Supports already having several of the most powerful utilities in the game, including easily the best role passive, it still took ten seasons of virtually balancing the entire game around them and Tanks just to find their place without a real frontline like 6v6 had. 2) Moving away from shields into one-button stat procs was a good thing for Tank gameplay and heroes not having to shoot more unkillable walls (that aren't 5v5 Tanks themselves). The lack of a real "off-Tank" role/playstyle for Tanking however is what ultimately forces this particular playstyle into its currently over-represented and overtuned state. More options are always good; 5v5 will still always force the most viable one with its emphasis on counterplay over raw mechanics. 3) Role passives. It's just not a coincidence it only takes 12% less healing and bigger bullets when a DPS shoots someone to make the game "fun" again, after eight seasons of getting lower and lower impact for doing it. IMO, The most recent change towards the game was also the simplest, becuase the gameplay loop was finally and significantly altered instead of being molded around a failed nuclear option that limits gameplay options, makes future character designs for all heroes more generic, limits metas towards their most predictable outcomes, and ultimately limits impact players have toward the game at all.

[@bhz10]

If you give a Blizzard dev a jigsaw puzzle, they'll just hammer the wrong pieces into place instead of going through the effort of looking for the correct piece

[@PersonalStayOut]

That basically sums it up. Whenever they try to fix a problem they always go about it in the wrong way that creates worse problems.

[@cabstevens]

Bro they will take a 2d puzzle and attempt to cut the pieces and use glue to make a 3d taj mahal that will barely stand

[@daintyonion]

“Just start hammering”

[@foxyrayne4855]

Bro, the pause and camera stare for like 10 seconds after Yeetle said give queen ult verticality had me dying.

[@Lugia-]

thought yt did the autopause thing, just to see his stare while checking lmao

[@DML897]

I mean to be fair, JQ is literally doing a roflcopter on the ground. She should be able to fly! 🤣

[@adalwolf8328]

"This dude is asking for Orisa to FLYYYYY" LOL

[@RochTheDrummer]

Nah it’s actually kinda cooking

[@jbeers8408]

nah that was not what I expected him to say lol

[@AzureRoxe]

@@RochTheDrummer No, it's not. Stop saying "lol he cooking" when someone says something moronic.

[@VoidOfTheSkies]

Thing is, movement would improve them, rather than having 2 different abilities that reduce damage, make spin movement based, rather that damage blocking, it's a good idea, just an extreme standpoint.

[@VoidOfTheSkies]

Orisa, in my opinion is bs to fight against, as its literally, HAHA YOU CANT HIT ME, HAHAHA I FORTIFIED! Its not fun to fight against, as a tank player.

[@kuilu]

"Let Orisa fly." And i almost closed my PC.

[@prismaticpaul]

it would at least make her more fun to play, would give me a reason to pick her outside of illios well to stop my fat hitbox from getting hooked into the well

[@yang139]

@@prismaticpaulNobody besides you wants Orisa more fun to play.

[@abudgie6909]

​@@yang139you want her to be boring? You don't want orisa to be more fun and dynamic? I'm not saying we have to make her a helicopter, but something has to change with this hero.

[@yang139]

@@abudgie6909 Did I say boring? I said not to make her “more” fun. She’s busted as it is and fun enough, there’s no reason for her to be able to fly. She needs nerfs not ridiculous abilities like that. If she was “more” fun she’d be played even more which ruins quickplay.

[@prismaticpaul]

so what then, delete the hero completely? or you wanna nerf her to like have a movement speed of 1 nanometer per second? Ideally the hero would be both fun to play and not annoying af to go up against, so having at least one of those two be true for orisa would be a good start. i stopped playing orisa a long time ago, i play mostly sigma now. I wonder what is your opinion of him. "nobody besides you" he says, what, are you some sort of psychic?

[@spaceowl9246]

I don't care what everyone says, 5v5 is the biggest bullshit move they have ever made.

[@BroBruhBruv]

As an off tank player I agree

[@LuvioBop]

As a tank player, extremely true

[@mr.gypsyfish6710]

That and ever thinking of a pve ofc it was going to be ass

[@trebmal587]

As a player who became a tank main because no-one wanted to play that role back when role queue didn't exist, and who kept playing tank when it was introduced because queue time for the other roles were so long, I'm conflicted about it. Like, I think having one tank reduced the number of possible strategies and made playing tank feel a bit worst, but it also made the game feel more like a proper FPS and not a brawl ability spam fest, which is a plus in my book. If most players would rather play a healer than a tank, keeping two slots for tanks mean you are forcing more players into playing something they don't enjoy. Of course, it could be solved by making playing tanks feel more fun for more players, but that's not an easy task apparently, they never managed to do that...

[@fazesw2343]

@@Thirstylion314thank you!!! 5v5 was a scam just to make us think the game was different

[@Bizz4rr]

Samito i respect you so much that you are fighting so hard for 6vs6. hope they will hear you one day

[@blindvalkyrie9352]

Dude it's a fucking videogame, not a civil war. calm down

[@sebastianrodriguez8992]

I think he needs to mellow out more before any officials will listen to him So far he sounds like a dude screaming about signs in the crystals like some hobo gypsy I understand his passion but hes gotta calm down a bit before someone takes him seriously

[@Bizz4rr]

this are just emotions because his passion is so big for this game

[@Rivler20]

@@blindvalkyrie9352 I think he is very calm, but you definitely need to chill out.

[@eagerinspirit]

​@@blindvalkyrie9352 nah, a world where you can be open and passionate about things you like is better tbh. let em cook.

[@kiiandrii]

“You can’t fit a square round into a peg hole” -Samito 2024

[@Adventist1997]

I love how the solution is give every Tank Fortify as a "solution" to fix 5v5.

[@neilmallick20]

Yeah fortify or dva matrix. They already changed hog breather into a dva matrix. Homogenization instead of creativity.

[@darkcircle899]

@@neilmallick20 Because that's the reality of having one tank. Tanks already have a lot to do in a game and if there is only one they have to do everything themselves so making every tank actually capable of doing it all is the only way for them to actually be fun and playable while mitigating counter swapping. This would have to be the solution for any role that is brought down to one hero. If you don't homogenize the designs then the heroes will always have weaknesses that counter swapping will be able to take advantage of and you're stuck with the exact same problem we have now.

[@neilmallick20]

@@darkcircle899 I'd rather have counterswapping than have heroes lose their identity, that's arguably worse. Not everyone counterswaps and counterswapping isn't always effective or a guaranteed win.

[@Adventist1997]

@@darkcircle899 You can also end up with Support that can't heal you in time. A second Tank could help block damage so that you don't instantly die because your support isn't paying attention or wants to be DPS.

[@darkcircle899]

@@neilmallick20 Counter swapping is more of a problem the higher you go on the ladder. Just the tank swapping is something you can play around but when 3,4, even 5 players are doing it it’s unplayable. In Masters games I will literally have a full team swap to counter me after one team fight. I don’t agree that the changes proposed would actually make the heroes lose their identity.

[@vaepuer2290]

As a quickplay warrior this game really sucked all the fun out for me. I went comp and have fun again, but damn man. I'm so bored picking up the slack for my team, then dying, then getting flamed the rest of the game.

[@OniLifes]

I miss when quickplay was well, fun times. Like ofc people still wanna win but one tricks arent as bad, me being one, and over all its chill. I use to just spam genji, and dominate. And it was fun. Now its like, if I cant spam genji then the games just lack luster

[@clandon9624]

@@OniLifesI mean that kinda just sounds that a you problem no offense. Cause I relate a lot. I will force doom even if they have cass sombra, but at the end of the day it IS my fault for going into 2 direct counters cause he’s my main. Genji also is kinda shit so, you shouldn’t expect to be having fun playing him either, kind of the way the game is rn

[@OniLifes]

@@clandon9624 it's not about being able to force play a character, its the fact that I HAVE to swap so much more. It use to be play a character and you can get away with it if youre good enough. Now? Good luck. You havs to swap. You have to pick meta or even in quickplay the games a snooze fest. I like characters I like cause they challenged me. The game is so bland and stale you might as well be play actual rock paper scissors now. And god forbid all this if I was a tank main. I use to like playing the other roles at a certain point when my one tricking became a bit boring. Now playing supplrt feels like im playing a tutorial every match with how easy it is, dps is just mid, and Id rather insult Mike Tyson to his face then play tank at all But to sum it up, thats my issue, we both COULD play into counters and actually play well to make it work. Now, not so much

[@TheLastEgg08]

I used to enjoy Total Mayhem SO DAMN MUCH in OW1. Now it’s just tank mayhem and Moira. 5V5 with op tanks is a really bad fun factor and In TM you can totally see how much BS 5v5 is

[@IAmAlteringTheDeal]

@@rudyranger249 Do you swap if your team runs dive?

[@josephdavis3472]

Basically they forced 5v5 on us, then half the playerbase either never played 6v6, or were gaslit into believing the format was the problem. Arguably even JUST doing the orisa rework (+removing fortify headshot immunity), and maybe tweaking sig's numbers slightly could have ended double shield. Sig doesn't really even benefit much from barrier health over 400 or so, as it is often just flashed up to block an ult or cooldown. There was no reason that 1200 Hp sig shield + 900 Orisa shield was EVER a thing, and the devs had effectively fallen asleep a the wheel. They could have even just added subroles to tank to where you load in as Main tank (and are allowed to play Orisa Ball Winston Rein Ramattra and Sigma, and the other player loads in as off tank and can select Zarya Dva Roadhog Mauga and Junkerqueen and Doomfist. Perhaps instead you could just make a soft hero ban where if one player were to pick Sigma, it wouldn't let the other player pick Rein or Orisa. I don't know man, there were lots of OPTIONS, but they didn't try _any_ of them.

[@julicomo9815]

There's a large pool of Off Tank mains who quit cause of 5v5. Also with a live service model this means more people playing in general.

[@mrscandinavian5053]

I mean shit I was THE maintank every game and loved it and I quit because I could not take it after I thought it was gonna be good since the outcome would be up to me lol how naive I was

[@genji_onion]

From the day they announced 5v5, it was not hard to understand it's the worst direction they could've taken the game

[@aowho]

Fliers will ALWAYS feel good to knock out of the sky as Rein (Firestrike) Hog (Hook) Zarya (Alt Fire) any day. Because you’re NOT supposed to.

[@umbreeunix]

I hate how glaring the flaws in 5v5 are. Even as a straight up casual who rarely touched comp and never played professionally, I managed to accurately predict the absolute dumpster fire that would become the tank role in OW2. The overbuffing, removing counterplay, massive reworks to the majority of the roster- I called it all the day OW2 was announced, told all my friends how shit it would be. I'm just glad we got Samito to preach what was obvious from the start.

[@khealer]

Any creator that's in Blizzard's circle jerk cannot be taken seriously anymore!

[@AbbyAZK]

I thought this was gonna be my video where I lost it about Rein but regardless, this is a fun to watch too!

[@kaja-xb6kg]

Abby my goat

[@t_dappa]

Love your takes bro 👊🏾

[@sadasd-n2f]

I love how everyone's solution to fixing 5vs5 problems is making every tank be as powerful as two tanks at the same time while they reject the fact that two tanks is objectively better.

[@FatHeadDave]

Every other youtuber is trying to justify the 5v5 CHANGING EVERY CHARACTERS KIT TO SUITE 5V5 PROVES IT DOESN'T WORK LETS GIVE REIN WINGS AND LET HIM FLY

[@sebastianrodriguez8992]

I don't agree with that argument If it's a different game The characters gotta be different to suit it Ow1 was different from ow2 so obviously the old characters from the first game might not work as well in the second game That's like trying to use an old engine in a new car Yeah sure it will work but not efficiently at all So you have to change it to make it work with the new format that should just be common sense

[@Swagonite]

Give Reinhardt a hit scan one shot hammer throw to pressure snipers

[@FatHeadDave]

@@sebastianrodriguez8992 and I think we would all agree with you honestly if OW2 had actually been different, but that's were we all struggle. The difference is, they put a 2 at the end, removed some great maps, and got rid of a role :(

[@sebastianrodriguez8992]

@@FatHeadDave True I feel like it should've had more time in the office with reworks like this before hand so it didn't feel like a rush job but they pushed it out relatively quickly so I'm not too surprised At least they are trying to make it work instead of just giving up on it

[@FatHeadDave]

@@sebastianrodriguez8992 I do appreciate their efforts to correct, but I really don't like all the characters getting changed so much

[@liamfps2279]

used to play for hours a day for years but i quit playing as a tank player because unlike every other role i get cooked if i make 1 small error. So playing now as a casual i cant even play more than 3 games on tank because its so goddamn boring and 1 dimensional, cant even lock rein in qp without everyone swapping to counter me

[@getfinessed4526]

I agree I used to enjoy the game cause I can change the hero play a different playstyle now it feels one sideded as a player with over 4k hrs in this game I don't play anymore its so boring even when I win many games in a row I get bored the gameplay feels the same.

[@joshuataylor5080]

Counter swapping has gotten so bad that I can't even try to learn a new tank. I've never played Doom until yesterday and I gave up after getting countered by Sombra and Orisa swaps FIVE GAMES IN A ROW. And this was in quick play!

[@mangshu21]

i love swapping but holy its reached a whole new level at this point, its insane. Usually you swap once and you are done, thats what you play for rest of the match but now you gotta swap atleast 3 times if they do. Its ridiculous

[@SlenderGenji]

it funny cuz 5v5 biggest argument of queue time being quick is starting to fade as every other role is starting to be more than 5 mins beside tank cuz no want to play it

[@RobertoChavezM]

I used to be a tank only player in overwatch 1, I came back 3 months ago to overwatch 2 for the first time and instantly noticed I couldn't do what I was doing in OW1. They killed my rein and hog and now I only play support. 5v5 sucks.

[@JonezBBQ]

5v5 is so much easier to balance. All they have to do is finishing reworking the entire hero roster

[@usucculentcow2988]

Yeah I genuinely have no idea how anyone defends 5v5 tanks when mauga exists

[@DriplessShrimp]

​@@usucculentcow2988they try to say, even after all this time that he was designed for OW1 lol.

[@KNGBSTY]

This comment is so satire lmao I love it

[@blahblah49000]

The opposite is true: the more players are in a game, the less any individual player and hero matters. The fewer players are in a game, the more impact each one has, and the more it matters which heroes are selected.

[@blahblah49000]

@@usucculentcow2988 It is in fact possible to dislike 5v5 and Mauga at the same time.

[@MurtazaMohammed-qe9nb]

Why these top 500 player dont understand buffing hero is not change anything they need change the format lol

[@junebuggo9111]

5v5 has made content creators go crazy. Tank has literally become one of the worst roles to play because it's nothing but counter swapping now

[@Virtualwhiterabbit]

It’s so annoying but it also feels good when you beat someone who constantly swaps while staying on the same hero

[@aerostrafe1075]

I remember back in the day when OW devs flat out said giving sombra the ability to jam weapons wouldn't be fun for anyone as stopping your ability to shoot is just unhealthy. They barely settled for the cooldown lockouts which they had to keep nerfing. Now in OW2 one of the best tank players is actually suggesting Winston can jam weapons to help him deal with the shotgun characters >.>. What happens when winston dives something that isn't a shotgun hero? They just flat out lose because they tend to have less health than shotgun heroes. They have to avoid winston at all cost which becomes really annoying plus no pvp game does this for a good fucking reason. Gun lock out is bad game design >.>. tl:dr Being a top player doesn't equate to you being a good game designer.

[@efemji]

yeatle was a ball player (still is), so im just gonna leave you at that

[@AzureRoxe]

Let's never forget Jeff Kaplan, during OW1's launch, mentioned they tested 5v5 and even up to 8v8 and realized 6v6 had the best feeling and fun of them all. This whole argument is worthless, the devs themselves have already mentioned in the past 5v5 wouldn't work and, just as they said, it's not working.

[@skarloeythomas5172]

Wow you even realized yourself he isn’t a game designer. He doesn’t have industry standards to meet, he’s just chewing the fat. You can join him at the table and come up with your own ideas, no judgement, but yes judgement for whinging from the floor that people can’t engage in fan discourse without being a professional engineer employed to rigorously conceptualize and test his game ideas.

[@mariustan9275]

@@skarloeythomas5172 You can engage in video game balance discussion even if you aren't a top player or game designer because everyone has their own ideas. Also what the OP seemed to mean is that top player opinion's aren't necessary anymore based on reality or more valid compared to low rank players.

[@yenneferofvengerberg4936]

winston dives any isolated hero and they cant shoot would be hilsrous

[@Theclooch]

Im getting really sick and tired of all these know it all streamers trying to gadlight me saying "your nostalgic, thats why you want 6v6" like yeah ... AND? Thats not a bad thing. Im nostalgic for lower gas prices too. That doesnt mean having higher ones now isn't a problem.

[@whydude7583]

I wasn't there for 6v6 and from listening to Samito i'd be more than happy to try it

[@LordOfWaffles32]

It's crazy to be nostalgic for something that existed a year and a-half ago

[@heiko2255]

​@@whydude7583 From 2016-2020, even without good balance it was great 99% of Players (except T500 and OWL Pros who had to play Goats 18 Months lol) And even after 2020 it only god bad because they abandoned the game, stopped releasing content and stopped balancing 6v6 wasnt only better for high level play, but it was also very easy to have fun on every role, you also had more freedom to play what you want in lower elos Im sure when it returns eventually (and they hopefully balance it in a decent way) you will enjoy it

[@whydude7583]

@@heiko2255 yeah I can only imagine, I wish I forked out the $99 but I was broke back then l

[@Smooth2218]

@@whydude7583 If I am not mistaken, the OW1 base game was 40 dollars on PC and 60 on consoles. I bought it for 20 in 2018.

[@CJMattias]

I dont think there is a way to save the game anymore. Every hero has been made into a copy of another, less stuff making them unique... The whole soul has left the game

[@froyocrew]

The soul left in like 2018 lol

[@Swagonite]

If the balance team were as active in 6v6 as they are now for 5v5, no one would be complaining about 6v6 and “double shield”

[@shaneh3109]

I said it day 1...5v5 wouldn't be as fun. No one listened

[@Nyxesgaming]

It was fun at first but yeah its trash

[@魚-c3d]

Same here...but I'm gold lol, of course they wouldn't listen who am I kidding 🥲

[@nihili4196]

It wasn't as bad at first because people haven't figured out the game yet. But it was incorrect decision

[@blahblah49000]

There were at least a dozen of us on Reddit saying 5v5 was a bad idea, long before OW1 transitioned into OW2. As you said, no one listened.

[@AzureRoxe]

This is what happens when most Overwatch creators are shills who are scared to death of angering daddy Blizzard or else they won't be given free stuff anymore.

[@HotMokha]

My main issue with all the proposed "solutions" a lot of content creators put out for 5v5 tank design is that all of them are hyper specific reworks for characters to help them fit into the current state of the game. Let's say we give each tank the specific tools necessary to handle each of the other tanks in the game, what happens when Blizzard adds new tanks? Unless we make every tank good at handling literally any situation (and completely butcher any fun the tank role could dream to have), Blizzard will have to severely limit the uniqueness of any new tanks coming into the game. Either the new tank does more or less what the other tanks already do, or it breaks the delicate balance of the tank role.

[@skarloeythomas5172]

Can you actually give an example of what you’re trying to highlight? Because most new abilities only have so many categories of effect, like stuns or aerial mobility, and the suggested changes interact with these broad categories, not the abilities themselves. Vortex doesn’t stop Flight or Hover, it turns up the game gravity. Block doesn’t stop sleep dart, it just makes the characters immune to crowd control while active.

[@vopcracker3193]

​@@skarloeythomas5172Mauga would be a prime example of what you're proposing. Cardiac Overdrive doesn't stop anything like all of the other solutions proposed and yet is easily exploitable the minute Mauga shoots another Tank and gets 1000+ overheath for free. The one-Tank format limits this further by basically mandating every Tank have an ability like Cardiac where the get free value for nothing, which will continue to make certain Tanks extremely overpowered at other roles' expense.

[@HotMokha]

@@skarloeythomas5172 That's a good point. My original comment put a bit too much emphasis on the less important point and not enough on what I was really trying to say. I wasn't fully on board with the super specific propositions made in the video because how they did one of two things: Either make the tank omnipotent by giving them counterplay immunity (the big one), or giving them a boost versus very specific matchups. The latter was what I focused on the most, even though it's less of an issue than the idea of tanks that do everything. Let's take the Winston suggestion, for example. Right now, a weapon jammer works for heroes currently in the game (even if it sounds unfun as hell to play against), but what happens if Blizzard wants to add a brawl tank with a powerful channeling ability that deals large damage at close range? That tank will just hit them with their ability to deal damage while their weapon is jammed and then start pummeling Winston when their primary fire becomes available again. Suddenly the proposed change doesn't work anymore because Winston's defensive tool can't deal with it and can therefore be counter-picked into. But honestly, that's just a symptom of a larger problem. For tanks to avoid counter-picking, each tank needs to have a contingency for literally every situation. Since the game was originally built for two tanks to soak CC, there are way too many cooldowns for one tank to handle. This means every tank needs a way to block CC. With their larger hitboxes, tanks are susceptible to shotguns/miniguns, so they need a defensive tool to mitigate that kind of damage. Tanks without shields are susceptible to lasers, so they need some form of damage reduction. When all is said and done, no tank is allowed to have any particular strength or have any particular weakness (because either of those might give them an unfair matchup against another tank). Tanks might look different and play slightly different, but they will all do the exact same thing at the end of the day: sit on the frontline and soak damage/cc.

[@abudgie6909]

​@@vopcracker31935v5 definitely does not mandate free value abilities for tanks. It's plain bad hero design. Fortify, ram's block and cardiac overdrive are bad because they have only one use: keeping you alive. Compare that to sigma's suck, which can eat abilities and ults, can keep you alive, can take space, deny heals etc. Winston bubble, zarya bubbles, any barrier basically and even javelin spin are better because they have multiple uses. Tanks need to be more dynamic. I personally would allow headshots on fortify and give it some kind of fire rate or damage buff to make the player choose between using it offensively or defensively. Just a thought.

[@skarloeythomas5172]

@@HotMokha I congratulate you for clarifying your point so well. I agree then, but remember Yeatle's only frame of reference is the current hero lineup. For sure a new kind of ability category/interaction could be implemented in the future, and now there's a glaring weakness in a tank matchup again, meaning more idiosyncratic changes to homogenize the tank roster. They are going to innovate abilities, they aren't going to limit themselves to reskins of current ability types. So it will be a neverending loop if Yeatle's well-meaning changes did go into effect. Because specific solutions aren't addressing general issues. Hence, my general solution was always this idea for tanks to have a long 30-second something cooldown role ability, like a self life-grip invulnerability bubble. It's a brief, infrequent 'SOS' ability or a cleanse. Because self-regen isn't so useful for tanks mid-combat, whilst supports have the good regen, and damage have the healing reduction. A role active ability is transmittable through all tank characters, current and future, is balanceable in its own right, and applies to all tanks evenly.

[@DriplessShrimp]

The gameplay at the start with him zapping brig but doing literally nothing and not being able to interact the pocket Mercy perfectly shows how trash this game is

[@nickxnormality492]

Ah yes. Winton vs 2 healers pocketing each other (with constant damage against him btw) is somehow the games fault. Ngl this video is great but this here isn't a gameplay problem it's a player problem

[@DriplessShrimp]

@@nickxnormality492 the mercy isnt in inspire shes just flying around but its impossible for Winston to do anything about her. Yeah its obviously a top10 tank player problem...

[@nickxnormality492]

She 100 percent is in the inspire range its huge. When they're going up the stairs and everything she's in range. Mercy is designed to stay out of reaper range of most heroes so ofc she isn't gonna get trapped in a point blank Winston Tesla. The issue is he focused on the wrong targets. Sure it kept thek busy enough for his team to secure the kills but he didn't actually get any elimins during its entire duration. Then he went ape and didn't get a single kill either and almost died twice and the supports got away. It just wasn't a good Winston play imo

[@dustinbiester4401]

Community: Playing tank kinda sucks, can we get 6v6 back? Blizzard: Best we can do is googly eyes for April fools. How bout a D'va Porsche skin as consolation?

[@godlyvex5543]

I agree that blizzard sucks but april fools wasn't just googly eyes.

[@jimmyjab8744]

@@godlyvex5543 yeah april fools is hella good

[@joeburch6754]

I still don't understand what the deal is with Porsche and Overwatch like what the fuck. I don't think the average OW player is gonna be convinced to go out and buy a 911 because their favorite Korean anime girl in their favorite shooty shooty game has a skin that kinda sorta look like one.

[@WaitingInTheSky1]

Im a Gold tank. Currently Gold 2 at the tank role, the game is literally called Counterwatch. We have to counterpick in LOW ELO 😭. Wtf blizzard

[@froyocrew]

Every character in the game is designed for 6v6, change it to 5v5 and now it feels like shit bc half the tanks are unplayable. Blizzard is so incompetent its almost unbelievable

[@sapphicseas0451]

Before I uninstalled I dropped rank in season 6 because I didn't want to play counterwatch, I just wanted to play the tanks I enjoy. I ended up in silver bro its SO bad

[@bobjoe7140]

I like how we are still talking about how to make tanks viable after like a year of overwatch 2

[@Syn4TheWin]

All this game ever needed was more heroes and a good swing at some actual balance of the issues we were addressing. We already had 3v3 and 4v4 in arcade 5v5 was something they could have left for experimental. 2-2-2 was the ideal format

[@IDontKnow-xs7nw]

It’s funny how people who play tank are slowly saying the craziest stuff instead of just being like hey blizzard you were wrong

[@Dingle.Donger]

Why does Mauga just running completely ignore Orisa gold, Rein charge, Doom punch, AND SLEEP??? Who made this? Who thought this was good?

[@pepekovallin]

Friend I'm gonna tell you something really funny, recently I started playing paladins again and decided to check one of the older tanks that game has, "Raum" He's a big demon guy with a minigun, and I shit you not, Mauga is literally him, the whole mechanic of life stealing a button that gives you even more heals based on the people you shoot, even the fucking sprint that is impossible to stop with abilities is a thing of this character, blizzard literally just made Raum in overwatch when they made Mauga (the funniest part is that even in paladins this guy isn't as annoying to fight against the way Mauga is)

[@joelruvalcaba6282]

​@@pepekovallinI said the same when Mauga was announced. The difference is raum is actually cool to play and his charge doesn't feel like he's obese.

[@godlyvex5543]

@@pepekovallin Raum's charge isn't CC immune, only part of it is. I don't remember if it's the charge itself that's cc immune or the long startup period, but it's only one of those.

[@nevs_h2002]

The point about rein thriving in the tank exchange in ow1 was really eye opening to why i felt like rein just isnt the same in ow2. Like back in ow1 you could charge a tank or swing them and they would die. But now in ow2 every tank has to bee good at the tank exchange which means rein isnt special anymore and he is just worse at the other things so he is bad overall

[@levanoon9286]

6v6 is the only solution, where buffing sustain to make a tank viable isn't necessary, all tanks who performed well in latest, where good because of incredible sustain and shifted counter swapping to one hero only. But no one wanna play for an entire month mauga just to climb the ladder. The flexibility, where you can pick any hero you like and make it work, without putting massively more effort into it, (then the opponent on the same role + same rank) was the greatest time to play Overwatch ever and could never work in OW2. In my opinion this flexibility of picking heroes, you like, not based on counters or power creep was part of the identity of OW and got lost when 2 came out. Sad that we don't get a mode to prove it.

[@CatBvrrito]

Recently playing tank has more felt like you need to be a jack of all trades than play a small pool of heroes. It's exhausting playing winston then as soon as you win the first team fight they instantly swap to Mauga, Bastion, Reaper etc. or playing Doom then they swap Orisa, Sombra, Cass etc. I'd like to see what 6v6 would be like in ow2 for a change of pace, not really saying it would be the end of all problems but it'd definitely be interesting to see how different it would be from ow1

[@jaxsonburch-eo1vz]

Idk what’s worse, the fact that we still don’t have an Overwatch anime or that we’ll probably have to wait at least another year before the community admits 6v6 is better.

[@pewnit]

Watched the Yeatle video yesterday. Thought back on you telling us they'll need to make all tanks generalists. What sucks the most about this isn't that Yeatle is wrong. I would love to have him be wrong but the fact that he's right is so fucking depressing. Bring back 6v6.

[@abudgie6909]

I don't mind the tank generalist idea. More dynamics and counterplay options while potentially nerfing their raw stats could go a long way to make the role feel more rewarding. I want to feel like I can outplay a bad matchup or even several bad matchups. But the problem is often that heroes like bastion and mauga are hyper-specialized as tank busters. If heroes like that got changes as well, the counter issue would be remedied to a certain extent. Because it would only be soft counters. If I'm playing winston into reaper, the game is still relatively fun because I have to play a cat and mouse game where I navigate around him (not to say reaper is flawless). But winston into bastion just means that when he presses shift, I need to disengage for the entire 8 seconds of his turret mode or I die instantly. Not fun. I agree that 6v6 is a better format for multiple reasons, but the bigger issue in my opinion is hero design. The game has far too many heroes that do one thing only and do it very well. Caricatures. That will remain a problem regardless of the format, even if 6v6 makes it a little less noticeable for tank players (which it does).

[@d3t3kt_]

His entire solution set revolves around giving every tank mobility and poke options, or giving poke dive tanks brawl options.

[@Michael-vf5id]

I just quit playing today the games main problem is its match maker without a doubt it forces wins and loses and 50/50 people are only just starting to realise this and i realised it 6yrs ago i guess everyone just slow to catch on or something. But yeh worst match maker i have ever seen in any game. it literally gives you plebs like a dps who will get 3 kills all game and somehow you are suppose to carry these idiots.

[@theredguy92]

8 minute mark Yeatle says rein mains only complain in OW2 bc they are nostalgic or influenced by their favorite streamer. Wow 10/10 on gaslighting and invalidating all the rein players feelings. Definitely cant see any other reason rein players would be upset 😂 😂 😂

[@skarloeythomas5172]

You’re delusional? He’s saying Rein was subjectively better to play in OW, and OW2 players still hope to feel that or aspire for that in playing him now. Is that not wrong? Do you think Reinhardt is currently god tier or not?

[@Porutake]

@@skarloeythomas5172that’s not the quote yeatle was saying, Yeatle tried to deduce negative feelings about playing Reinhardt in 5v5 to only 2 reasons and that is very very very much not the case

[@AnikethBandi]

@@skarloeythomas5172 I mean hes technically correct, but his entire premise for saying that is wrong. He's right, people want to play the old rein, because his playstyle is fun. Current rein's playstyle sucks. Yeatle saying nostalgia and streamer implies that its not that rein is bad or unfun, its that he's just a bit worse than before but people are blowing it out of proportion. When the reality is the way to play rein rn if you wanna win is extremely unfun. You gotta play like a rat, and just stand there and live as much as possible unless you have an actual comp around you.

[@skarloeythomas5172]

@@Porutake Playing football because you loved playing football as a kid is not a negative feeling. I don't know why you're interpreting it like that.

[@skarloeythomas5172]

@@AnikethBandi I only half get what you're saying. I don't agree with that implication, because he says Rein is objectively stronger now than he was before (in a vacuum), but the subjective essence of fun is more a hold over from his past condition, because he gets outplayed now by Orisa, Kiriko, Lifeweaver... The streamer comment is obviously negative, and it's a truth that there's a parasocial contagion to opinions in streaming circles.

[@jaivettasheem1314]

We still having this convo 2 years later , they could at least give us a 6v6 mode. And it's possible since you can still 6 stack in the game so it's not the engine itself just the denial.

[@Montesama314]

So overall the fix is "What if we just made every tank good at fighting everything?" Then what is the point of picking different characters if they all can fight the same guys the same way?

[@2ballisticgaming846]

5v5 is worse than 6v6 but the issue is blizzard cannot go back to 6v6 not only because of dev time but then overwatch 2 would have no reason to exist

[@trulyaloof]

Please give us back 6v6 it'll be so much better in the long run. I imagine at each of their meetings each person that brings up 6v6 they get fired.

[@JB-324]

Can we get Samito to pick a content creator dream team to make a custom game that would be everything they want from the real dev team???

[@dust2359]

Blizzard won't add a 6v6 mode because that would mean they're open to the idea of going back to 6v6. Eventually when they do all the tanks will be reworked so they don't fit into 6v6 and Blizzard will use that as a "see 5v5 is better, 6v6 doesn't work."

[@breguera77]

5 months later and we got 6v6 coming in an arcade mode

[@dust2359]

​@@breguera77 Big W

[@BTRshow]

Its funny, making tanks overpowered to fit in 5v5, as a result, made the role the least impactful. Yes, tank is very powerful, but if the tanks either countwerwatch or mirrorwatch, then 1 of 2 things happen. 1. They just dive eachother backlines without ever meeting, entirely bailing on their team for picks or 2. They slow dance with eachother, doing nothing but trickling damage that gets instantly healed. Negating eachother to engage their team but as a result, just not engaging themselves. Hoping a ult can turn the tides.

[@BTRshow]

I don't see how you fix the tank problem while sticking with 5v5.

[@BlaBlaBla-76]

when you have to change SO MUCH....then 5v5 is just not the way. Period.

[@diobrando4914]

I like how everyone's arguement 6v6 and 5v5 is double shield.

[@WerewolfKweef]

Yeatle would make every hero exactly the same with zero weaknesses and then ask you to thank him for it.

[@raurumd]

lmao at orissa flying like dude if Im chillin and I see the battle horse turned battle pegasus Im afking

[@crucialspectre7401]

The craziest thing, is that we are going through this right now because blizzard can't get off their high horse and admit that they were wrong.

[@pekboy2000]

It was a good time where I would 6 stack with my friends but then 5v5 happened. Way to exclude one extra pal Blizzard!

[@BlaBlaBla-76]

Used to love playing tank in OW1....dropped tank after first month of OW2😢

[@xRichieeex]

A lot of the tank players I used to love watching had left OW2 to go play other games. 5v5 has def done more damage than it helped, Now we are back at the same problem.

[@ozman5466]

The reason why uninstalled. 5v5 such ass as a Tank main. It's either 6v6 or bust. And with the way things are looking, I will never being installing OW2 again.

[@DreadedLad88]

This why content creators and pros should only have a small impact on balancing. Hall of Fame athletes dont usually make for good coaches. We figured this out in sports... But E-sports are still working towards this conclusion.

[@Montesama314]

The solution for Rein is just "buff all his moves for more damage?" But he's still gonna play the same, so it won't change as much.

[@utk8718]

Its kind of stupid that the best solution is to just remove all counter play like yes, no one likes CC but at the same time, no one likes having a 700HP guy on your face just zapping or booping you around. Removing counter play will just result in that meme where the guy says "Guess ill just die"

[@r3me]

samito stating facts once again

[@Cybrtronlazr]

In a game so fundamentally designed for the 6v6 experience, 5v5 will never work and was a complete and total mistake. I went from grinding tank in OW1 to never even touching the role in OW2 because of not only the experience of the tank synergies, but also because I didn't enjoy this rock-paper-scissors style gameplay that the tank role just became. The Winston and shotgun characters example within first 5 minutes is already more than enough to give a good example. In OW1, if you had a D.Va or Zarya you wouldn't need another "rework" or taking away from the gameplay for someone else, as they synergize so well to make up for each other's weaknesses and would counter the Reaper or Bastion anyway.

[@nulve130]

I've unironically had the most fun in ow2 playing 5v5 no limits. The occasional game where I get the second tank to help me play rein is pure 2016 nostalgia for a better time.

[@MarkAntony-k9e]

Also whats crazy is how some streamers will defend 5v5 whilst admitting they are bored of the game to the point of not playing for weeks. It feels like for the longest time blizzard has tried something new each season, a different patch, a rework, a new hero, hundreds of balance changes, yet each and every time people will be bored after a week and either stop playing or come up with a reason that their boredom should be "fixed" by pushing the balancing one way or the other or another small change to magically make everything competitive and enjoyable again. Atleast Flats said that he would start looking at 6v6 as an option after he defended it for however many seasons of ow2 there are now. But ultimately thats for blizzard to decide and commit to. Do I think they will tweak every hero back into 6v6 and correct things accordingly? not a chance. Atleast not for a long time.

[@beeree14]

when u start giving melee tanks (winston, reinhardt), greater range options (2x firestrikes instead of 1, tesla cannon rightclick) to cover their literal shortcomings, u know the game is fucked.

[@kasibani1313]

This needs to be seen by ow devs

[@usubeni]

I think the queue time argument has always been a little weird, because queue times weren't terrible before role queue, and then after 5v5 cut them down, they just crept back up. Of course Sam makes a good point about times being influenced by the game feeling good enough to keep more players around. But theres one thing that nobody ever seems to mention. Right now, we have so many different queues dividing the player pool. QP Role, QP Open, Comp Role, Comp Open, FFA, Mystery Heroes, and thats before even opening the arcade tab. Is that not having a negative impact on queue times?

[@Dr.Mango24]

Please keep fighting bro. We will get it if we keep fighting for 6v6. We can do this.

[@LordOfWaffles32]

Whats crazy is that OW2 tanks that were specifically designed for 5v5 already need a small rework like Ram.

[@abudgie6909]

That's because ram is boring. It's not really a format issue. He's like orisa: not dynamic enough, not enough interesting decision making.

[@jimmyjab8744]

@@abudgie6909 that is true but i do wonder if ram would be more interesting in 6v6 tbh, the tank exchange with ram in 6v6 might make him less boring even if i think he would prolly be like a less fun and easier rein

[@abudgie6909]

@@jimmyjab8744 maybe he would work better in 6v6. But I’m mostly talking about how block is just incredibly lame, vortex is just something you throw out into a choke and hope it gets value, his barrier cooldown is extremely long and his ult is… I don’t even know. His kit just isn’t interesting. Especially block.

[@jimmyjab8744]

@@abudgie6909 oh agreed yeah. Only thing I like about block is seeing people who can weave punches and blocks really quickly but most of rams kit is either alright but not great or just meh. Best feeling prolly is a big ult or beaming someone with staff when theyre slowed in vortex

[@BroBruhBruv]

Trolling a mercy is always fun but now I’m gonna have to do that to a brig lol

[@marvynjeanbaptiste3206]

At first I thought Yeatle’s idea of Doom’s ult being showbable to the lobby was dumb but I kinda like it if it would insta kill anyone caught in the ENTIRE zone (not just that small ass circle). It actually infuriates me how much range Dva’s ult has and can ACCIDENTALLY kill someone. Yet I try to telegraph Doom’s ult and god forbid they land centimeters outside of the zone I’d have to use ALL of my cooldowns

[@jimmyjab8744]

eh at that point its not the same ult anymore and dva bomb is entirely different to doom ult for a reason

[@marvynjeanbaptiste3206]

@@jimmyjab8744 I just feel her ult is too effective for little skill. I don't die to it since I can pb it but does it really need to have so much range?

[@jimmyjab8744]

@@marvynjeanbaptiste3206 i mean if it didnt have a large range and was as easy as it is to either hide from with cover or use a shield or immortality to survive, it would get even less kills than it already does

[@demifolk8940]

There is a solution and its to homogenize the gameplay loop of every tank and force to fit into an orisa type loop or have them be shit until they are balanced in way to make them playable. Currently, they are forcing tanks to have to play a certain or way or have you play like a complete maniac to make it work. Its fucking psychotic we have high level players who think having to brute force easily counterable heroes by just playing significantly better than enemy, disproportionately, every single game. Like thats worked, everyone tank main who has completely given due to how easy it is to ruin your experience. How many game have you had to just give up playing Reinhardt despite the fact you are playing WELL because it just isnt good enough against the enemy orisa. Also, something i want to talk about is health pools. Ow 1 had a combined team health pool of about 1800ish. Moving to ow 2, the combined hp pool went to something like 1400ish due to an entire tank being removed. But this disproportionately affected damage and healing numbers, since tanks dont deal consistent damage like dps and some supports (at least not all tanks). And because they were took up a lot of supports resources as well. Thats why overwatch felt like you died so quickly while simultaneously seeming like tanks NEVER died. The numbers were so incredibly boated that it created snowbally situations depending on the comp. Now… wanna guess what the health numbers are now? about 1600-1700 for a team. almost the same health pool the game was in ow 1. its like they are doing EVERYTHING but actually making the game 6v6. again, oh wow people were dying too much and healing too much? who could have guessed it. thats why the antiheal dps passive was needed too btw. healing numbers were always too high. and why did supp move onto a role where you needed to actively do more? because a single tank taking space needs the help during certain matches. requiring supports to be the ones to help take space, you cant even play the other roles in similar ways anymore either cuz the removal of the other tank now makes it so other roles have to help “take space”. why the fuck are supports having to take overly aggressive angles? SUPPORTS.

[@CJMattias]

Imagine you had only 1 support. You'd never be able to play off-supports like mercy or lucio. So they need to be super buffed. Same goes for tank. 1 dps, other one picks widow, you'd be forced to counter. It's so simple it's insane they wont get it.

[@Jigsaw090]

Guys let’s start this going #bringback6v6OW

[@fettuccine148]

lowkey I wouldn't mind yeatle's roadhog changes for the next april fools update. Using pig pen like a trampoline sounds like hella fun for the memes

[@emh22psn9]

Hey, 700+ days deep into Marvel Strike Force here. Love the game but don't play it expecting to use whatever characters you want. Game is super meta heavy and you must build what's good to get far. 👍

[@Spika94]

Not to mention that all these changes he's suggesting is just gonna make the problem worse. Because the loss of a tank is gonna hit so much more, and you're just gonna get steam rolled harder. EDIT: Oh, and it doesn't remove the counter picking issue at all. There is always gonna be a counter pick, so ultimately, this isn't really changing much.

[@joshuataylor5080]

I love Yeatle, but a lot of these changes are BONKERS.

[@Kafka-Youtube]

Yeatle is giving solutions based on the information he has as of now

[@quincypayne6330]

​@zodiarkful what's your point?

[@BeastMode-bw2ry]

Yeatle's right. This is what we have to do to make 5v5 work. It's very clearly a terrible format, we should just go back while we can.

[@Kafka-Youtube]

@@quincypayne6330 that his solutions are bonkers but are given within the parameters that the game will continue 5v5 no matter what. Also the final word is Blizzard that has it. we can only speculate as to what they will do about fixing the game, the first step they did was to put penalties for leaving qp games so you can see the path they are going... and is not good at all.

[@moby_os]

@@BeastMode-bw2ry yea but his suggestions are so stupid idk why he doesnt just make a video on why 5v5 doesnt work instead

[@tselacky4117]

Overwatch 2 should have just introduced a new role of off tanks.

[@christsolos]

giving zarya a secondary fire that hits snipers is so wrong

[@spottyboi024]

Blizzard clearly wont listen to people's calls for bringing 6v6 back, so i just decided to uninstall the game and will not be reinstalling until 6v6 comes back. Ill reinstall the game for 6v6, even if its just for a quick play hacked mode, because i know once 6v6 hits the game again it will be way more popular than 5v5

[@juanmanuelvaitkevicius9316]

this is freaking hilarious! This dude is so right, the game is doomed if 5v5 keeps going on. Let orisa fly man

[@Thegoddeer]

Nobody will have the balls to say 5v5 is obviously worst hell tbh double shield is better than 5v5 hot take lowkey but at least the dog had to hit the rock with Orisa

[@Thegoddeer]

Hey hot take hey guys how about we stop trying to make tanks do everything so they are viable and split the role into one who takes space and one who controls it and keeps it Aka overtwatch 1 6v6 is unbelievably the best version and this balance team could be the best overwatch has had if they go 6v6

[@Cruxis_Angel]

I’d take double shield any day over 5v5. I’ve only been able to finish 2 seasons cause I just quit till the next season.

[@jaredtambala3429]

When I see people say 5v5 "fixed" the problem of DPS times being too long, I think of how chopping off your leg will definitely stop an ankle sprain from bothering you. It was a heavy-handed decision which created so many other problems for the actual health and enjoyment of the game. I'm done with the claims that 5v5 is "better" when the 5v5 is the worst thing about it.

[@inahacim6582]

Now, all we need is for Freedo to make his own tank solution video to dig the 5v5 hole even deeper.

[@iPhenomenal27]

s9 turned me into a dps main lol, im not playing tank lol.

[@Keetherz]

I absolutely understand the tank arguement but i feel theres not enough people talking about the fight around it. I can swap mauga for the doomfist but if my team decides to play spread out and feed him we just lose. When youre playing without your own supports swapping to help you its even harder to "play" tank

[@forrestsytsma5861]

I think a lot of the talk around double shields comes from casuals and people in the low ranks who played OW1. Because I used to be that new player who genuinely had no idea how to play around shields and every bronze bot that played with me(i am included in this) just shot the shield till it broke rather than attempting to make plays around them or straight up refusing to approach till the shield ran out. This lead to shields being listed as the problem rather than the symptom of the actual issues. It wasn't till i started to play support more consistently that I realized just how easy it was to keep the big bois in the fight forever.

[@marvynjeanbaptiste3206]

I’ll be honest the first time i heard that bap lamp prevents you from dying I was floored.

[@jimmyjab8744]

and so many years later and it still hasn't been reworked

[@arickhook370]

Question I always ask is.... WHO were the people begging to switch from 6v6 to 5v5? I don't remember the player base beggin for a formatt change... The closest thing I can remember is Double shield meta and a lot of people hated it... 5v5 was to kill double shield... even though the Orisa rework for OW2 killed double shield lol.

[@metalfreak83]

Because they changed to 5 vs 5, they had to redesign existing characters...endless "balances". If only they could do a reset and bring back OW1. God, I miss Zarya Rein combo

[@commandoch12i5]

And each balance change designed around 5v5 is chipping away all the uniqueness of the characters and playstyle.

[@shadowstorm9363]

I feel in 5v5 it is more important that your tank plays the right tank otherwise it'll be hell for everyone in the team When i play mercy in support, idc who you are, my rez is always for the tank cuz that tank role is so influential in the game now, like if its 3v4 and you are the 4 but the one dead is your tank it doesnt matter, you will lose that fight

[@sandman2775]

As someone who plays paladins and overwatch, I feel like the fix is not go back to 6v6 but to just get rid of role lock and let you have different team comps,