Vanilla in perfumery - COMPLETE GUIDE (Natural & Synthetic)

[@texasfan8892]

My favorite variety is the kind that’s been imported to and grown in France. It’s got a much higher vanillin content that traditional Madagascar vanilla absolute and is almost devoid of any smoky phenolic compounds so it’s much more gourmand leaning. One thing I’ve learned from working with vanilla in perfumes (natural or synthetic) is that less is definitely more and you need a good blender like iso e super and a good amount of musks to make it work. Adding too much vanilla to a blend and not enough musks or iso e super or whatever to anchor the vanilla will make it very powdery and even bitter. Using small amounts with a good dose of musks or iso e super allows the vanilla to open up more.

[@oOezovOo]

I think you are right, what musks would you think are most suitable for a gourmand accord/fragrance? also in what proportions would you have Vanilly components / Iso e super / musks? I'm a beginner and would like to acquire more knowledge about these topics :)

[@sammacer]

Very interesting, thanks for the heads up :) I haven’t tried using the absolute in an actual perfume yet but I will have to try sometime with iso e and musks like you say

[@texasfan8892]

@@oOezovOo It depends on the direction you want to go but for me personally, galaxolide is a great one to use. There's a site called Creative Formulas and they have a Tobacco Vanille formula that you can purchase and then try to make. I can tell you from personal experience, it smells nearly identical to the real stuff. Over half of the entire formulation is timbersilk (I used iso e super) and galaxolide. Out of 100 parts total, it's about 54 parts iso e super and galaxolide and about 9.5 parts vanilla components. You really don't need a whole lot and that was the mistake I was making beforehand.

[@oOezovOo]

@@texasfan8892 thank you very much for the information! :) Would you say that those formulas are worth it? Especially to learn

[@texasfan8892]

@@oOezovOo The Tobacco Vanille one for sure. Haven't tried the others yet but their plum accord formula is pretty nice too. Great way to learn because you get an actual formula to go by and you're not just flying blind. Really eye opening experience for me too because it made me realize how much material I was wasting beforehand to try to get the desired effect I wanted.

[@daniellabuda7744]

I own vanillin extracted from rice. It reminds me whipped cream or ice cream in some degree. Smooth, creamy, sweet, slightly lactonic with sort of 'milky' undertone.

[@wib6044]

I first tried a sample of real vanilla. A 1ml sample and was actually able to stretch it out a bit diluting it. So I ordered 2 grams and paid quite a bit for it. I went through order and realized I didn’t see the vanilla in the box. I went back through all the packing I tossed aside and there it was the tiniest bottle I’ve ever seen🤣. I still have yet to try any of the synthetics. The real thing adds just enough depth and warmth for what I’m doing.

[@sammacer]

Yep, it really is lovely (and expensive) stuff - glad you found the bottle

[@mikaelogredy6647]

wow, i only sell vanilla beans planifolia from indonesia for 160USD/KG

[@ericbabcock846]

THANKYOU for vanilla info. Everyone uses whole bean .the dark woody notes are in the pod don't cut or open beans or soak too long you'll loose the first sweet notes from skin and let pods woody note join later .

[@matheuscosta3099]

Hi! How do you suggest making a vanilla tincture, please? Whole beans or cutted? At what strength % ? And let it soak in the alcohol for how long? Thank you

[@LucidDude]

There's one I picked up recently, called Ultravanil. I'm not sure how availability is outside of the us, because there was only one place I could find it over here...but it's pretty interesting, if you can get your hands on it I would recommend picking up a few grams to mess with. It has this very interesting Smoky vanilla smell but with an underlying sort of sweet bubble gum candy sort of vibe, still haven't used it a ton but it's one of those materials that immediately excited me when I first smelled it!

[@sammacer]

I picked up some recently too! I didn’t have time to cover it in the video. Yes, it’s very nice - apparently good in helping bend vanillin closer towards a vanilla absolute recreation when used in trace amounts

[@justaddlight]

Interesting that I've never smelled pure ethyl vanillin. Definitely have a feeling that Roucel used it or vanillyl isobutyrate in Rochas Man and perhaps even Matcha Meditation. They both have that creamy, almost cloud-like white chocolatey vanilla in the base. Great vid Sam!!

[@sammacer]

I haven’t smelled those perfumes but there’s a good chance - I would recommend picking some up since it’s dirt cheap.

[@alethink5492]

Can you descrive this ac?

[@joesturdy890]

Wow you know what your talking about, I personally am looking into making my own vanilla perfume so helpful.

[@RG_Eph]

Hello Sam! As a non-perfumer uni student, I am on a mission I never expected I’d be on but here I am..I want to create an almond fragrance (either in lotion form or perfume form…still deciding) for my mom as almond is her absolute favourite. After researching I have learned (if I am wrong please feel free to correct me!) that Benzaldehyde, the aroma-chemical that smells like almond scent (or almond extract) is quite short-lasting and I need to add some other elements to give it more staying power. I want to add vanilla for the base note and maybe also some tonka. Since this is just for her, I am able to spend more than if I had my own perfumery. I have smelled countless vanilla scents in perfumes, lotions, etc. and every single one that is a gourmand is sickly sweet and very unappealing to me. I want a vanilla that smells like high quality vanilla extract or vanilla beans and almond. In other words, I want a gourmand that smells like very realistic almond cookies with more complexity and with no hint of artificial anything. Did you happen to have a comparison between vanilla tincture and the vanilla infusion? I was leaning towards vanilla absolute before your video but I want it to smell more of vanilla beans instead of something woody. Sorry for the long comment…just want to say that I appreciate your videos as this is all very overwhelming for someone with no experience trying to make one very specific scent!

[@sammacer]

Yea benzaldehyde could work, although it smells of cherry too. What you probably want is vanilla absolute with some vanillin to sweeten it. But all of this sounds very involved for a one off thing with buying all of the equipment etc. It’s hard to make a specific painting having never painted before. You may be better off trying a pre made almond fragrance oil.

[@RG_Eph]

@@sammacer thank you for your reply! Did you happen to do a scent comparison between vanilla tincture and vanilla infusion?

[@petlover345]

@@RG_Eph “Almond milk” from the Australian brand “House of Candles” has a natural vanilla quality on the dry-down and a almond top note. You’ll also find that Tonka bean absolute pairs well with vanilla and almond. I have a blend of vanilla absolute, Peru Balsam, butter Co2, Tonka bean absolute, and Tonka bean butter that smells great… And I heard about the HoC Almond Milk from another KZbinr. I am new to this too, and I think starting simple and building some mixes based on those things is helpful. Smell them undiluted and compare strength, check the IFRA percentages and make small batches (like 4ml) to test out and experiment. Also, “Vanellia” from Fraterworks is a non-sweet vanilla base. It’s not as “vanilla absolute” as I’d like but is one facet of it… Paired with vanillin or other ingredients you can make it how you want. Bitter almond essential oil too, although it’s more of a top note. Some honorable mentions for these ingredients… -Perfumer’s Apprentice -Perfume Supply House -Eden Botanicals

[@RG_Eph]

@@petlover345 thank you so much for taking the time to reply. It’s greatly appreciated! I will check some of these things out

[@petlover345]

@@RG_Eph No problem! I have the Tonka bean key accord from Perfumer’s Apprentice, almond milk from house of candles, Tonka bean absolute and vanilla absolute from Perfumer Supply House, Tonka bean butter, butter co2, and Peru Balsam from Eden Botanicals, etc… Almond, Tonka, and vanilla have overlaps and are delicious together. You may also want to check out Hypnotic Poison for your mom. Beautiful almond perfume.

[@vanillinchillin743]

I like vanillin and ethyl vanillin even down to 10% dilution. Definitely a must have in your arsenal because it’s so popular and so yummy. Have not laid my nose on the absolute yet, but someday.

[@sammacer]

Don’t worry, I was years in before I got some! Even now I only have a small sample, not enough to actually use…

[@perfumeloverr]

Very nice video Sam 👍 One more suggestion, please try to discuss some accords and usage as well because we learn alot from you

[@sammacer]

Thank you - as with usage, the world is your oyster; it can really be used in any perfume type

[@seraphinamarini]

I am so excited I stumbled upon your channel Thank you for putting out such great content. I also LOVE your Formulair app! I can't wait to start using it. My question is about Vanillin. Now that I want to buy some for a blend I'd like to create, I see that Vanillin only seems to come in a powder form. How do I make a proper dilution of it using powder?

[@ericbabcock846]

An absolute should be sweet creamy note only .woody is coming out from lazy processing of whole bean attempting to get it all mixing first sweet with seccond bitter.

[@barriehemming1189]

acetovanillin : 4- acetoxy-3-methoxybenzaldehyde, like iso-butavan but with fewer meth groups on the acetoxy position. Prob not ideal as it can be off white and discolor but a valid choice. sweet vanilla with a slight smokey backdrop. Ps love your videos.

[@jeanyvestrillat]

Well done Sam, very interesting topic. Thanks a lot.

[@sammacer]

Thank you

[@danimashi8447]

i used vanilla co2 extract diluted to 10 percent i think and added it to some lavender essential oil but it didn't really smell like any vanilla or sweetness. so i just left it sitting there after a couple of months i smelled it on accident and then it smelled so beautiful and sweet its so amazing.

[@sammacer]

Lovely

[@Shawn-gw7ns]

Really good video Sam!ive been on a vanilla journey myself.Ultravanil is very nice with that darker aspect

[@sammacer]

Thank you! Yeah it’s a good one

[@topnotesfragrance]

Great video as always Sam- glad to see that you had a sponsor in this vid too that's awesome!! Now that fall is coming I'm going to be using a lot more vanillin and ethyl vanillin etc in my frags so this was great to see :)

[@sammacer]

Thank you! Good luck with your fall fragrances. And yes it’s my online store - I recommend you check it out if you ever need equipment and supplies for perfumery 😊

[@topnotesfragrance]

@@sammacer Hey that's awesome- I didn't even realize! I'll definitely be checking it out!!

[@storkonstage]

Great vid. Thanks. A question. How can I see what kind of vanilla is used in a perfume? For example YSL Opium Pour Homme has Bourbon vanille in the note pyramid or Eau de Mission (a marvelous vanilla cheapie). On the packaging the manufactur writes there are real vanilla pods used. Greetings from Holland.🌷

[@sammacer]

Unfortunately there’s no way to tell - even if they specify that real vanilla is used, you can’t tell if it’s a significant amount or just a trace for the claim. That said, expensive perfumes from well respected brands who say they use real vanilla are far more likely to than the cheapies

[@storkonstage]

@@sammacer So I have to follow my nose and a bit of common sense. Thank you for the answer.

[@calyx93]

Great vid! Always informative and interesting - now I've got a couple other vanilla variants to try out. Thanks!

[@sammacer]

Thank you!

[@caseyw1050]

Great video! Learned a lot. Would be cool to see some information on what materials to keep cold vs not…shelf life and storage type stuff ☺️

[@sammacer]

Thanks for the suggestion

[@VanessaCorpuz-ek3lc]

Hi Sam, what fixative I can use for perfume making? Is vanilla oil/extract one of them?

[@Reign_Of_Is_REAL]

Yea, I just realized why perfume costs so much in terms of making it to sell. I’m hoping to make it affordable but that alone is a problem. 🥵 “This is very helpful btw, TYVM”

[@sammacer]

There’s nothing wrong with using synthetic vanilla - most perfumes do!

[@Reign_Of_Is_REAL]

@@sammacer Do you use solvents and additives like DPG, MMA etc., ??? Of course I bought the kit from Pell Wall and have no ideal WTH it is! 😅 If you have the knowledge, can you please share with me/us? 🙏🏽🥺

[@juandelacruzfraganciadelac1224]

Just learning something new thank you for this video

[@sammacer]

Thank you

[@blossomadaeze]

Hello, new subscriber from Nigeria 🇳🇬 I love your videos 👏👏👏

[@sammacer]

Thank you!

[@keepyourfaceradical]

ISOBUTAVAN smells just like Cream Soda to me.

[@sammacer]

That makes sense, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was in it

[@dewankiscents]

Ethyl Vanillin for the win

[@paigelittle3153]

You should make a vanilla accord that smells like vanilla absolute

[@sammacer]

That’s tricky but there are some things you can use, a good one is something called “ultravanil”

[@petlover345]

@@sammacer I have some Ultravanil. Have you ever made a vanilla absolute accord successfully with it, and if so, do you have a formula?

[@howcanyouhelpyourselfdivin8576]

This is helpful, thanks!

[@sammacer]

I’m glad

[@waqarghulam3548]

Can I use it in very small quantities with Oud?

[@horsey604]

What is the impact of vanilla tincture compared to the absolute and the vanillin?

[@sammacer]

Tincture is much lower, vanillin is probably highest

[@horsey604]

@@sammacer I want to try the 80% alcohol in an edp as vanilla tincture to see if it will act as a vanilla foundation for the other notes.

[@sherwoodparfums]

Can you please guide me on Vanilla CO2 extracted? Thank you!😊

[@sammacer]

The CO2 extracted version is where they use supercritical CO2 fluid as the extraction solvent

[@sammacer]

The CO2 extracted version is where they use supercritical CO2 fluid as the extraction solvent

[@sherwoodparfums]

@@sammacer how does it smell like when compared to absolute?

[@sammacer]

Not sure, I don’t have it

[@sherwoodparfums]

@@sammacer okay... thank you so much!! 😊

[@petlover345]

Where can hobbyists order the vanilla infusion from Firminech?

[@sammacer]

Mine was from harrisonjoseph.co.uk

[@sammacer]

Mine was from harrisonjoseph.co.uk

[@petlover345]

I just wish there was a way to get vanilla absolute to last way longer. The complexity and beauty of it is a perfume on its own. Hard to recreate.

[@alethink5492]

Somoene that sell real vanille abs in Europe with not crazy cost?

[@sammacer]

I don’t think that’s possible 😂

[@paigelittle3153]

Vanilla is actually an orchid!

[@sammacer]

Oops, what did I say?

[@adri7753]

Me encanta

[@TheLixistar]

Can you do milk scent ?

[@sammacer]

Yes you can

[@bikermustafa90]

How to dilute vanillin?

[@altan3838]

handsome bro you know this job

[@sammacer]

👌

[@boomsticken701]

real stuff is EXPENSIVE ! 45$ a gram

[@josesaraiva9566]

boomsticken Oud is more expensive, it can reach 10 times the price of vanilla... If it weren't for synthetics, most people wouldn't be able to wear perfume.

[@sammacer]

Yep 😂