MASSIVE eBIKE MOTOR TEST - 7 EMTB Motors, Which Is Fastest?

[@SamsBikes]

Riders I hope you like the first video of the MASSIVE EBIKE MOTOR TEST... like always got a question just ask.

[@jordanmackay3568]

Maybe a test to see which one hits the hardest wall when top speed is reached?

[@SamsBikes]

Not a bad idea!

[@konafan1984]

Also a bosch cx vs race would be interesting to see. Thanks anyway! Great and unique video! Also it would be interesting to see a chart about times and the weight of the bike + the rider weight too! 🤔

[@grillob3]

One video that was missing. Thank you!

[@PhilosoFox]

Maybe give the Pinion MGU e1.12 a shot as well and focus on the unique strength of these systems. For example I myself would love to see Shimano bringing Bosch’s rocking motion overdrive option as well, for it’s great in difficult climbs. Cheers!

[@erichbachman7363]

Well played mate, amazing series, thanks for info and help!

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks Rider a lot of work but I love all the RAW data

[@skiMTB]

Well done! LOVE YOUR REVIEWS! I even like listening to you giving shouts out to your sponsers!

[@SamsBikes]

I appreciate that thanks 🙏 legend rider

[@rickbault1221]

Very interesting. I'm glad you also added how each delivered the power. That's my favorite part of the Levo motor.

[@SamsBikes]

Yep me too! I hope all is well Rick speak soon

[@Todd66]

It’s fun watching you in FF mode. You do good work Sam. Always entertaining and informative. I respect and enjoy your perspective for sure. I get what others are saying about fatigue and what not, but I don’t think it’s as much of a issue as others. I think how it feels is how it feels. Time should not be taken too serious in this due to fore mentioned fatigue and also these motors are on different bikes with different weight and geometry. So the story is in the feeling of the motor, the over run, the engagement, the drag, maybe the sound and the different modes maybe?! I say good work and I love the content. 🇺🇸 I received my multi tool from the contest. I dig it, crazy how much they can pack into a multitool. Thank you Sam!!

[@SamsBikes]

Hey Todd thanks for the kind words I totally agree 👍 the most powerful it’s really that important unless your racing it more about the over all system for me Range is the most important so let’s see how they go. Also I’m stoked you got the Topeak tool! They making amazing gear

[@jamesandbrendaoates7637]

Great video Sam! Go Rocky Mountain!

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks 🙏

[@TheLastMoccasin]

Super excited for this series!!! Great episode 1!

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks 🙏 rider soooo much work but very interesting

[@volneicycle]

​@@SamsBikes When will we have new episodes?

[@SamsBikes]

@volneicycle mate this Thursday sorry I’ve had some problems with the bikes and couldn’t continue

[@TheLastMoccasin]

@@SamsBikes Drama!!! Will we find out which bikes are the cause this episode?? 😬

[@PabloOlea59]

Amazing mate! I was looking fwd to watching the climb test! When I was testing the Reign, in such a crazy day I ran out of battery and had tons of make one last climb with the motor off. At the beginning was kind of socking, but when you get used to the feeling, it is possible to pedal quite good, but slower tho hahaha

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks bro yep it was very interesting 🧐 and yep the Giant goes well with the motor off

[@joet2463]

Thanks for doing this! Normally, I usually go by overall performance (motor, suspension, fit, ride style). Personally, I love my EP8 on my Pivot Shuttle LT, plenty of power for me and I usually gravitate to the natural pedal feel. Can't wait for the next test!

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks rider for me it’s sooooo much work but it’s so interesting 🤨 for me app and over all pedal stroke feel and sound is the most important

[@mikenimmick3920]

This was a very good review. Lots of good information...straight forward. I will say that Bosch own emtb motors. It's #1. They have the quality, the wide variety of bikes use Bosch, the motor is amazing everywhere in the power and readily available to 99% who want one. Even though the RM motor won the shootout...it's not available in many bikes and as so it is not readily available to very many people...especially important for warranty. I'm not shipping a motor across the country to get a warranty problem straightened out. Plus, the RM Dyname looks very clunky and not pleasing in appearance at all. Overall, excellent job Sam...as always. First class.

[@SamsBikes]

Hey mate thanks for the kind words the next 6 weeks is going to be a lot of work but also very interesting! 🤨 also it’s Sam not Rob but I take that as a complement

[@mikenimmick3920]

@@SamsBikes My bad....you and Rob both do amazing work and the only 2 MTB channels I subscribe to. Trustworthy and honest reviews from both of you. My apology for accidently typing Rob...lol.

[@brianbathgate4944]

Loving these videos man :-)

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks Brian

[@stevepetttyjohn7900]

Very interesting and thanks for the comparo. However I would have like to see the regular Bosch CX as well. I know it is very similar to the Race, but doesn't have as much over run, which may be better for us mere mortals.

[@SamsBikes]

That would be nice but I don’t have one and thought this was more interesting

[@solferinomichelotti2985]

Ottimo video, aspettiamo ancora, grazie

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks

[@themuellers5384]

Sam's Fieldtest? Auto-Like!! ❤️

[@SamsBikes]

Yes mate next episode coming soon

[@TCK71]

Excellent video, the most comprehensive EMTB tests on YT. 👍

[@SamsBikes]

Thank you very much rider

[@moyenbike]

Fantástico video, me gustaría saber cual es la cadencia en la que da mayor potencia el motor yamaha de giant. Muchas gracias.

[@PabloOlea59]

El motor de Yamaha una de las cosas buenas que tiene, es que trabaja muy bien a cadencias bajas. Pero yo diría que el motor cuando más redondo va es entre 90 y 100rpm.

[@KWParrish]

You should do this test another day in the opposite order.

[@SamsBikes]

Hahahaha you clearly have no idea how much work went into this! I would love to if it was easier

[@mountaincruiser817]

Indeed, the fatigue level makes this really unreliable. This problem exists in all these YT channels. It's fun to watch but not more than that.

[@KWParrish]

@@SamsBikes oh I can only imagine Sam lol. Just thought it would be interesting to compare but I do understand 😂

[@829250]

@@SamsBikes Or you can use power meter pedals to make sure your effort is the same on every e-bike.

[@sparksfly369]

I realize it would take a lot more effort (and probably unrealistic), but the only way to get definitive results would be multiple runs with each bike in different order-and ideally with multiple riders riding each bike.

[@BH-cy9tb]

I did back to back with my friends shimano 801 and my Bosch gen 4 and gen 4 definitely has way more power down low cadence shimano gets it’s power at higher cadence. As for drag they both feel the same and yes unless your doing a back to back I sure all the bikes are good.

[@SamsBikes]

Yes it’s very interesting to do back to back because other wise they all feel good.

[@crazybaker1]

Nice one, mate 👍

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks 👍

[@philhicks5818]

Nice one sam , for me personally with the motors it’s turn around time for repairs, and that’s where my dealer race co cycles win , my friend has had new batteries and motors fitted and out the door in an hour , luckily for me my gen 3 levo with 1800 miles on the clock has been faultless , looking forward to the rest of your tests 👍

[@siriosstar4789]

The raw power test might be more accurate if done on a smooth asphalt street and maybe rest longer in between tests as fatigue can be a factor in time to the top . on a dirt trail there are varying lines that will be encountered and possible tire slippage etc .

[@MrFlapstick]

What’s the best system to derestrict?

[@bishopoz5346]

Shimano

[@SamsBikes]

Not sure never done it

[@MrFlapstick]

@@SamsBikes should def try it, you don’t ride faster all the time but it helps give it a bit of boost when you want to hit a jump or trail flattens out

[@sdtrailrider8070]

What casing do you use on the tires front and rear? Never tried those tires before. Thanks.

[@SamsBikes]

Hey rider, I’m running ultra soft super DH on the front and soft super Gravity but if I’m racing I’m ultra soft front ant back

[@sdtrailrider8070]

@@SamsBikes Thanks Sam. Do you use a step lighter casing for the SL ebikes, or keep it the same?

[@L.u.c.k.y_L.u.c.i.a.n.o]

Cool, this is what we need!

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks rider.

[@kayakutah]

Great! I sometimes ride my Giant El-3 with power off when I ride with my wife.

[@SamsBikes]

Yep the Giant system is really good for that

[@thim8009]

Nice job man

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks 🙏 Rider

[@beiderbeck81]

just to be clear is this the syncdrive pro or syncdrive pro2?

[@SamsBikes]

It’s the sync drive pro

[@alanhawkins7591]

Sam if you haven't already can you do overall efficiency from measuring the electricity that goes into the charger to how much it gives back in range

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks brother I’m definitely doing a range test

[@santanubendesa5017]

Nice one test e-bike motor 👍

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks mate

[@santanubendesa5017]

@@SamsBikes you're welcome mate 🙏

[@stuartpike3974]

I enjoyed this test albeit subjective I felt praise and criticism was given fairly. Would be fun to see 1st generation motors put up against latest generation motors.

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks mate yes that would be interesting putting old motors to the test

[@DynamiteLanding]

Rocky All the way.

[@SamsBikes]

Yep it did well right!

[@symmetricon1982]

It's a KOM climbing beast for sure.

[@desrosij]

Excellent vidéo, i have a instinct powerplay but 2021, the Power is the same to the 2022 upgrade but, they have improved the drag, mine without the battery, is impossible to ride the drag is just to great. Still, i love IT so Go Rocky Go 😁

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks for sharing!

[@stefanhansen5882]

This was super cool. Any chance you can ride the same climb with the same effort on an MTB without an engine? That would be super valuable for people (like me) who are trying to decide if an eMTB is worth it or not. Thanks!

[@SamsBikes]

Shit bro 😎 let me try but I don’t have a Normal bike

[@stefanhansen5882]

@@SamsBikes 🤣🤣🤣 Thanks mate!

[@signifyanir]

Nice !!!!!!

[@signifyanir]

I am the first!

[@SamsBikes]

Haha thanks bro

[@Ron-mk7eg]

I am looking to buy my first eBIKE. I live in germany and am looking for something preferably under 2K. I wont do any steep terrain. I am new to this xD. Do you have any recomendations?

[@SamsBikes]

There are so many good options! Maybe check out Canyon they have a massive line up of affordable e-bikes

[@Ron-mk7eg]

Your Videos actually got me into this sport. Thank you very much! Love your videos :)

[@rawmancemtb]

Minimum you can get a full suspension e mountainbike now during discount time if you find the size is 4k.

[@Riceman-o1p]

Run your budget up at least another thousand dollars higher and then look for a high-quality used one. A $2000 budget is too low and I think you would be disappointed in short order.

[@MrM1729]

The climb difference between first and last was < 5-10 secs. What’s more important is reliability, ease of repair, and durability. Most bikes are class 1, so max speed is limited.

[@chuckduck]

Thamk you Sam !

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks 🙏 rider

[@thefathippy]

I haven't ridden enough emtbs to really compare, other than agree - when you're in the cadence zone, the Dyname really does kick in. 😎 What hill? Mine also feels a bit draggy, especially where the assist cuts in and out as you float around max assist speed (25km/h here)

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks rider agree 👍

[@Fus-1111]

What’s the easiest after the cut?

[@maxdergroe9082]

These results are pretty similar to the ones from Bern peak, so I assume there is some validity to these tests, I'm very pleased to see my choice on 2nd place in my commuter bike, second only to a purebred race motor. Nicley done!

[@AK-ContentCreatIon]

Cool! Video! Why didnt You get NOX cycles withg the BMZ RS ( former Sachs RS)? Not complete without it... 112 NM

[@SamsBikes]

I honestly didn’t think about that motor but it’s a good call

[@AK-ContentCreatIon]

@@SamsBikes Yeah I noticed... I'm THAT guy, that alway bugs You about this German designed and (Taiwan alloy frames, Portugal makes the carbon frames) assembled in Austria - NOX Cycles... They would love, I'm sure, having a spokesman with that nice accent! AND in southern Europe! The have Brose (not my favorite), Fazua 60 for their light eMTB and the BMZ RS for their fullpowered bikes! Batteries, Motor and the bike is now from BMZ group, They merged after a long relationship... And it's very nice to have one partner as a customer

[@siriosstar4789]

@ak- i have the nox BMZ and have been trying to get sam to test the Sachs/BMZ for years . But to be fair it's not his fault . He tried years ago to get them to send a bike but they refused . Storcks another german bike company now has the BMZ on one of their bikes so maybe they would send a bike to him .unfortunetly it's not a complete test without the BMZ motor . i'm convinced it would win hands down . i've raced my BMZ against the bosch cx with a friend of mine and i won by a huge margin. consider that i'm 78 years old and the guy riding the bosch is fifty !

[@AK-ContentCreatIon]

@@siriosstar4789 new leader ship.. Not too long ago... Sometimes one has to be a little more insisting

[@siriosstar4789]

yes ,BMZ might be more willing to send a bike to them than Nox was .

[@ronaldwestra8735]

Would love to see the Cannondale Monterrra SL in this test

[@SamsBikes]

It kinda is there same motor as the Canyon Spectral:ON

[@briancrumpacker]

I would be more interested to find out which motor is the most reliable long-term. Period. I don't care how fast it is if it's going to fail. I've heard bad things regarding specific motors, and I see plenty of used bikes for sale with "new motor under warranty" which is just going to fail again.

[@SamsBikes]

That’s video 5 im going to be interviewing bike shops and mechanics and get there take on it

[@siriosstar4789]

@brian - Bosch . it is one of the oldest motors ,if not the oldest motor in the group and has had the fewest problems

[@holger_ger3391]

unfortunately, no Pinion MGU🙁

[@SamsBikes]

Yep but I did ask them many times

[@holger_ger3391]

Maybe the Pinion MGU is for a different purpose like

[@beatrizgasco4776]

Lot’s of work but totally worth it!!!!!❤

[@Jeroensurf]

Interesting test. It shows to me that although they are all pretty good no brand has an edge on every department: power, natural feel, dragles when off and quiet. I ride a Orbea Wild with the normal bosch. It works great but the motor-sound still anoys me.

[@SamsBikes]

Yes next week is noise climbing and going down

[@Stockfish1511]

Honestly i think this times are very mariginal. The bike gemotry, suspension etc are different and can easly affect the time. I think you cant go wrong with either of them, but i personally think Bosch CX lineup is the best motor

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks 🙏 rider

[@RideyRodney]

The differences between these motors is minor compared to the difference between a 25km.h speed limited and an unrestricted motor. The best motor would be the one capable of easily modifying the top speed to whatever it was rated to, without the manufacturer throwing me under the bus and voiding the warranty.

[@taiwanlife6531]

No1 is the pinion MGU because it's the next level.

[@SamsBikes]

Yes but didn’t send a bike very silly

[@taiwanlife6531]

@@SamsBikes 😔 that's unfortunate

[@evan-edb_mtb_socal6418]

It's worth noting that if you push the Rocky Mountain for extended periods of time it will overheat the motor. Something that happen to me often.

[@SamsBikes]

Let’s see in my range test

[@siriosstar4789]

aevan- i have the Sachs/BMZ motor 112 NM and one of the best features about it besides the raw power at low cadence is it does NOT over heat .

[@stephenhossack4390]

Why no pinion mgu bike?

[@SamsBikes]

Because they didn’t send one ☝️ I ask many times

[@ingopaul67]

Should do a test on which motor lasts the longest time before a warranty claim ! 😮

[@robbief1]

Won’t be the Brose!

[@rawmancemtb]

@@robbief1 Yeah that's why I wouldn't buy that system even though otherwise it's pretty decent and has option for extra batteries. Always worrying whenever the belt might come off doesn't sound like a good time.

[@SamsBikes]

Yep that’s video 5

[@rickbault1221]

I'm a lucky guy I guess. I have way over 2000 trail miles on my Levo and it's been super reliable. Especially compared to my wife's Trek Rail 7 which has been like a bucket of bolts.

[@rawmancemtb]

@@rickbault1221 The belt might come off from 1000km to 4000km.

[@symmetricon1982]

Important side not eith the Rocky, it require more output from the rider in watts than the other motors to get max power.

[@thomasquirmbach9088]

Which is faster? For me, the TQ HPR120S (120Nm) is clearly the strongest and most powerful unit, ahead of the SACHS RS (112Nm) unit and far ahead of the other e-bike motors presented. Best regards from Germany

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks for the comment but I was looking for motors that are available worldwide and that most people know

[@thomasquirmbach9088]

@@SamsBikes Then I have made the other two, very interesting but not so well-known eMobility units better known with my comment. Have fun biking and testing!

[@siriosstar4789]

No Sachs /BMZ ? The one motor that will beat them all , is not mentioned . In terms of power alone , at LOW cadence , without over heating like the Rocky mountain ,the sachs/BMZ will win .

[@kat0197]

Forgot to most important info. Weight of those ebikes.

[@SamsBikes]

Sorry all bikes are from 23-25kg never can keep everyone happy

[@sharlenehreinson5316]

Which is the most quiet?

[@richardsmith3350]

I think VMG is available with a more powerfull motor. Bafang do 130nm and 160nm motors. Not sure what the laws are in Oz.

[@SamsBikes]

Yes it is but that’s a 500 watt motor I believe so we can’t ride it legally

[@christing9223]

In NSW 500W nominal motors are now legal

[@siriosstar4789]

BTY i'm aware of Nox refusing to send you a bike to test , which i think is a big mistake of theirs BUT the Sachs engine is now being offered in one of the Storcks bikes . maybe they would be willing to send you a bike. personally i think NOX , which is now owned by BMZ the German battery company , failed in promoting their product . the only bikes i know of that carried their motor was/is , nox, storcks , and a few scandinavian bikes . it's also oddly enough on an e ski bike from france and a few cargo bikes which is what it was originally designed for . using the motor on MTBs was an after thought , i believe . the motor was designed for cargo bikes that carry heavy loads at low cadence without overheating . however i could be wrong about this .the creator of the motor a german man said he invented it to keep up with his younger friends on the trail so,,,?

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks for the comment mate, I did reach out to all of the major ebike motor brands and you see in this video who wanted to send me a bike! I can’t do much more than that

[@siriosstar4789]

as you know , i'm 100% convinced that the Sachs/BMZ can slay all of the bikes mentioned in a raw power test . not sure about naturalness, noise , smoothness etc but just raw power it can't be beat . personally i think nox and sachs cut their own throat by not sending you a bike to test . are they afraid of something or what ? very perplexing .

[@sgtkurry]

Everytime I see a bafang in one of these test they are always near the bottom no matter what motor. That makes me think they just lie about how much power they actually output or are capable of sustaining.

[@SamsBikes]

No I don’t think so it’s bloody fast mate

[@tommydale5309]

Bafang has 2 motors much more powerful, being put in bikes, before this You Tube. The 600--130NM and the 620--165NM. Why not use Bafang's most modern and powerful ????? Makes you say Hmmmmm .

[@roddas26]

36 seconds and 68? Is that milliseconds?

[@SamsBikes]

Yes

[@bikemad]

Bike weights would have been nice

[@SamsBikes]

All 22-25kg

[@SalaiThangte]

1st has the highest Torque though...

[@SamsBikes]

Yep

[@sergior.nunezc.8875]

what is the idea of the fastest?? sorry, but I see many people going full turbo in a 3rd or 4rd gear fast up and not the same down..then, broken chains, hubs..I love my ebike, it is great, in the same time that I spended with my analog, I can do almost double of runs. Anyway for me the ebike is for going further and doing more runs.

[@SamsBikes]

Great point!

[@lahvancz]

You are missing the MGU in comparison, which is sad as it is new player on the field.

[@SamsBikes]

I know I asked many times

[@williammehling3135]

Once am 80-85 full power bike hits 40 pounds it will be my next ebike.

[@KWParrish]

Probably 2 years

[@SamsBikes]

So the Rotwilf RX375 then

[@williammehling3135]

@@SamsBikes is that a real bike already? lol

[@rawmancemtb]

Hell yea.

[@SamsBikes]

Thanks brother so much work this one!

[@moosicman101]

great idea but not very good execution. these motors deserve multiple tests, in different orders. missed opportunity for a genuinely useful video.

[@SamsBikes]

Sorry you didn’t like it! So much work went into this video but I’ll try hard next time

[@craigphillips-1]

That's swell, all this effort is meaningless because you are comparing apples and oranges. The Bafang 620 Ultra is the fastest on the market and you don't even mention it...

[@brentcollins9727]

Apples and oranges??? Whatever dude. 😂😂

[@SamsBikes]

Yep and it’s not legal in Europe so there’s that

[@siriosstar4789]

@craig- he's comparing bikes that conform to the 250 watt limit in Europe . That restriction DOES allow for unlimited Nms but the motor cannot exceed 250 watts , so the bafang doesn't qualify for the test .

[@dado304]

Are u crazy? You wanna find out drag like this? Motors have a clutch inside and you maybe rotating with first gear set. So the loss here is really low and you can not feel it by legs. That was old Bosch design, when you did rotating also with rotor, then you did feel drag. Drag nowdays is just a myth.

[@SamsBikes]

Can’t keep everyone happy 😃 I have been asked so many time and your wrong you can feel it in the motor 100% there is definitely more drag on the Rocky and Bosch

[@dado304]

@@SamsBikes Dont know about Rocky. Ok, try to do more sophisticated test, not the funny one, that you try to tell after few peddals. Put down the chain and start to adding weights on pedal, how much weight you need to turn it. You would measure most friction of rubber bushing then some internal gear resistance. Try it even without weights, just turn by hand and tell me what you feel...

[@lawhitey]

If we're meant to take the test with a pinch of salt, what is the point of the test?? to make it fair (if you insisted doing this test one after another) you should have strtaed with the lower powered models instead of going with the most powerfull at the start when you have fresh legs, may have been a more level result this way. Even better why not do all the tests on one bike and do a different bike every day for 7 days this way the climb test would be at the start of each day when rested you would have got the best result for each bike.

[@SamsBikes]

Can’t make everyone happy, it’s the best I could do I’ll try harder next time!

[@MC-ey8kw]

Not very scientific, honestly you need to post the full unedited clip of each run. I do appreciate the effort you put into it but the results are too subjective based on the so many variables in your test.

[@SamsBikes]

Sorry I’ll try harder next time

[@MC-ey8kw]

@@SamsBikes no sorry it didn't come out the way I meant, I just had surgery I'm on 1 arm so type slow and short, broke my collarbone in bike crash. I meant like more data, like with your power/wattage. The wattage that was also coming from the motor, for instance on the Shimano 801, did you actually reach full cadence to get all the power from the motor and for how long, just some details like that to help paint the full picture. It was a good video and appreciate all the work you put in this. Also, not sure how official the start/stop of the timing was, I'm not even a Shimano 801 fan but something seems way off with that one.

[@martinmitchell8408]

All restricted so doesn't matter when u can ride properly all flat as a fart i own one

[@basvanwell4987]

i got some really nice software for you for this M510 from bafang

[@thewrx2600]

with speed limiters, this test does not make very much sense. Sorry sam, you have good videos, but this feels like a clickbait video that is entertaining at best. sry bud.

[@joseantunes8695]

Shimano no tks

[@SamsBikes]

You wait for me to finish this series this Shimano is a player

[@BorisHatter-cz4bb]

Hi Sam, I’ve always like your vids but this one I’m afraid is a bit silly. A lot of those bikes don’t come as default at there highest power settings from factory even when you put them in turbo-boost-rally etc. ie the sram motor needs to be turned up in the app before it will give out its full power. Also tyre pressure, suspension design, travel and lots of other factors play a huge role in a test like this not mentioning rider inputs. To go to this much effort and not pay attention to detail kinda makes it a pointless vid.

[@SamsBikes]

Hey mate thanks for the your feedback but clearly I had them un the most power possible via tuning in the app and all tire pressure was 24-28 same tires and suspension was set to how I ride each bike! Maybe I should of made those clearer

[@ntallocatevirtualmemory8488]

Worse motor ever, shimano ep8 and ep801, battery last nothing and is also the slowest...

[@jimsteinway695]

Fastest motor is an irrelevant metric. I bought a pedal assist slower bike ON PURPOSE. I didn’t want a motocross bike. I wanted to work and at 65 some help to get home

[@SamsBikes]

Good point

[@monkeyCmonkeyDoo]

Maybe the least scientific test I've ever seen. Absolutely worthless.

[@martinmitchell8408]

Which is cheapest there all a rip off