Narcissist’s Betrayal Fantasy: Painful Mommy Separation

Narcissistic supply, even sex are anxiolytic. So is betrayal. Narcissist has been betrayed by his mother in early childhood. He seeks to recreate this betrayal throughout life. He chooses fake friends who badmouth him, steal from him, poach his mates, and betray him. He behaves obnoxiously to make people hate him and hurt him. And he pushes his intimate partners to betray him in a variety of ways, including by cheating on him.
Narcissists convert intimate partner to a substitute mother in order to accomplish separation-individuation.
One way to make this happen is by insistently and persistently pushing the partner to betray the narcissist for example by being with another man. This way, separation is coupled with debilitating pain to guarantee its irreversibility and finality. The narcissist always mourns the mother fantasy, not the actual departed intimate partner.
The narcissist is not a masochistic cuckold. He does not get sexually aroused by the betrayal. On the contrary, his subsequent suffering causes depression and a decrease in libido.
Mate poaching is not met with mate guarding or sexual gatekeeping but with projective identification with the partner and mate sharing with the man she would cheat with (often chosen by the narcissist himself).
Having idealized his partner, the narcissist's self-idealization (grandiosity) depends on his ownership of her. Relinquishing her to another man, handing her over to another man undermines the narcissist's sense of self-worth and results in self-devaluation so extreme that the bad object takes over and its dual messages are amplified: you are not lovable and you do not deserve happiness.
The narcissist is also extremely envious of the other man who now comes to possess the good, idealized object. He feels like a self-destructive fool for having handed her over to a man who envied him for possessing her, desired her, and will now replace him in her heart and mind, likely badmouthing the narcissist as a predator or a monster. He feels that his repetition compulsion renders him defenseless, disrespected by everyone involved, weak, and pathetic. He consoles himself by clinging to the fact that he made it all happen, he was in control, the others being merely puppets.
The narcissist perceives the man the partner cheats with as superior to him in some ways. The narcissist is a child and mother is cheating on him with a real man, a grown up. These are the preconditions for separation: a devalued mother and a painful breakup in a reenacted childhood. It involved splitting as a precondition for individuation: child all good, mother all bad.
The narcissist engineers the whole situation of betrayal. He is fully in control of it. He selects mates who are more likely to collaborate in realizing it: promiscuous, unboundaried, and mentally ill. Such women are anyhow prone to fantasy and they collude with the narcissist to the point of complying with his wishes even when his demands of them are ego dystonic (for example: that they cheat on him).
The narcissist then abuses them, prompts them to betray him, and sets the stage even to the point of choosing the other man.
But his fantasy is that of having fallen victim to an evil partner (reminiscent of his real mother). His fantasy is mostly counterfactual and delusional (persecutory), but he defends it fiercely in order to accomplish separation-individuation from both a bad mother and her sadistic, tormenting introject.
But this attempt is doomed to failure owing to its inherent contradictions.
The narcissist distorts and reframes reality, deceives himself into accepting a version of the events which is largely untrue but excruciatingly agonizing and, therefore, conducive to separation-individuation: a confabulated fable of rejection and humiliation. But such a confabulation only buttresses and magnifies the twin messages of the bad object (you are no good and therefore deserve no happiness and you are not lovable). So, the cycle has to be restarted with a new partner.
Narcissist’s self-harming is a form of emotional disinvestment (decathexis). Separation requires it. Watch Narcissist's Emotional Involvement Preventive Measures (EIPMs)
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[@moniquenel854]

This is all so sick it is surreal Never in my wildest nightmares would I think this could be real. It makes me physically nauseous to think I have been part of this whole sick , sick mindset. The experience has left me changed. Almost as if my innocent concept of love has been warped for ever. I really loved this sick Narc it makes me Ill to think I was a " part" of this.

[@patriciajoseph3035]

This is so sad. That another person must suffer all their life because of terrible parenting.

[@Tamalama88]

The collective has A LOT OF WORK to do HEALING themselves then EDUCATING others to recognize narcissism. Prevention is the best medicine. I have been a RN x 34 yrs. I currently, and for many years, have worked in the area of Psych/Mental Health. But living in it is unforgettable. At times the experiences... UNBELIEVABLE. I have known him since we were toddlers, and we grew up alongside one another. He shared his parents divorce experience and his reaction to it. I knew at that moment he had unhealed childhood trauma. Before I realized or recognized he IS NPD, I advised him to heal the childhood trauma because I easily saw other things toxic and dysfunctional in his world. I was not prepared for the 18 month mental mind f&@!* I experienced. I never cheated. I am loyal to a fault, even in friendship. But I discarded him, and am NO CONTACT. It now makes sense that his chosen nickname for me was Momma. Narc Free in 23. He guarded me and did not let anyone meet that I did not already know. (We grew up in the same area) Of course now he is turning the lies he tells himself towards me and ANYONE who will listen to his woe as me sob story .... Of COURSE it is MY fault don't you know??? Thank you for your valuable wealth of information...

[@dontbeadogsbody3564]

Horrible mother, in this case mother-in-law… Thy name is Meridee.

[@stephanieelizabethkopecky565]

I had a covert narcissist, he withheld sex. His mother was emotionally incestuous, treated him like a surrogate husband. He made me the villain no matter what I did. Anything good irritated him, anything bad was amplified and blown out of proportion. He even made things up about me to support his claim

[@megalou6567]

Yup the covert I met who I thought was a twin flame (I no longer believe in TF) he withheld sex from me too. But claimed he was in love with me and I was the best woman he has ever met . Biggest mind fuck I have ever dealt with. So glad I have grounded back down to reality

[@emira5009]

Wow. Same happened to me. I couldnt take it anymore, so i left him. Your last two sentences are so true. When i left him he told me that i had pretended whole out relationship.

[@emira5009]

@@megalou6567 omg they confuse us so much. They promise heaven and deliver hell. Sometimes i think i will never get over this

[@megalou6567]

@@emira5009 me too … I feel like I have permanent brain and soul damage . I was doing great until he reached out to me last month . I hadn’t heard from him in 14 months. I went No contact on him . But I downloaded telegram app and he texted me through there . I blocked him and now I feel a lot better . Any contact with them takes you right back . He only lives under 2 miles from me in our very small town. God must be protecting me bc I haven’t seen him once since I ghosted him 14 months ago . And I hope I never see him again . I am trying to get myself back and it a challenge

[@littlelibra2865]

Same here. The withholding of the sex did a real number on my self-esteem. Hell…the whole relationship did

[@renee4882]

So true and nauseating. I didn't sign up for motherhood, betrayal or CPTSD. When I held on to my values and he couldn't force a betrayal from me he cheated, discarded me and turned on me as if I was the cheater. He literally morphed into someone unrecognizable. I was thrown out of his house where I had lived for 15 years and alone trying to figure out what the hell just happened. I now live a strict no contact existence towards him. It took 3 years having had to educate myself,, repair the damage he inflicted on me and recognize my rolll in my pain. I'm focused on me now, and the trauma from a childhood of domestic violence and abuse. I'm on the other side of the most painful, disorienting experience of my 58 years. I'm ptoud to say I am not a victim. I am a survivor. It's not been an easy path...but a possible one.

[@a.mom4life]

This is like reading my story, except mine is now trying to take my children away from me so he can act like I abandoned them

[@whoopdewhoop7154]

@@a.mom4life This is exactly what my Mom is going through.Both your comments reflect her exact situation. Really messed up situation. I think there is a evil force in the world trying to tear up families. Call me superstitious but wtf is it that every family is going thru similar circumstances that are leading to the same scenarios?

[@yournotthatimportant1032]

With ua , 58 and healing from a N and my childhood trauma that led me to a long of Narcissist, alcoholics and addicts

[@gloriadonahue7241]

I thought that being cheated on or hit was the worst thing that he could EVER do. What I learned shocked me. What is one of the WORST things that your spouse can do to you is..... not be there when you have surgery. "In sickness and in health". This phrase is in the wedding vows, yet no one ever thinks about THAT transgression, not even myself, until it happened to me. To be in an unbelievable amount of pain, unable to move around and to have A SPOUSE THAT WAS NOT INTERESTED IN CARING FOR ME. Who intentionally stayed away from me, even though we live in the same house during that time, was more than my heart could bear.

[@Kristain473]

My partner before marriage, would tell me I couldn’t do my laundry at a male friend’s house. Then after marriage he would push me to hang out with that same male friend after marriage and after having a baby…

[@kyliesmith9782]

This is terrifyingly accurate to my situation. However, I never cheated. He accused me of it, tried to re-shape and reframe everything in his mind in order to see me as a cheater. The reality conflicted with the perceived and apparently "needed" idea that I was cheating on him. The paranoia, the psychotic delusions, the stalking. The calling me at 3am on video call and making me show him around my room. Then almost looking disappointed and angry that nobody was there. The reframing and delusional behaviour of "seeing" someone in my back seat or "hearing" my car door slam mid conversation, as though someone was in my car and in his words "they jumped out as you approached a red light" The incessant interrogation of my exs and contacting my sister to ask her to tell him the truth, that I was still sleeping with my ex. My reactive abuse (which I own amd i am not proud of) of screaming at him and telling him I hated him, almost soothing him. He needed the betrayal... He needed me to hate him. To re-enact his betrayal fantasy... He even once said after an episode of reactive abuse "Thank you for hating me" Good God almighty....... I will never understand how a mother can abuse her child so badly, that it renders that child to this sad and heartbreaking existence. Never, ever, ever. The potential he has breaks my heart. His beautiful innocence stolen. It's just not fair

[@Jade-hr1mf]

Omg, I was in the same situation as you. I even installed a camera in my room because I was tired of the accusations, thinking now he has nothing to worry about. Then my wifi went out one night at like 3 am, he assumed I turned it off to go "spread my legs like a whore" and I couldn't even go into work because I spent the rest of the morning trying to calm him down. I wish I had seen or heard about this before so I could have left then, but I truly just thought he had trust issues from past experiences and I could show him with my loyalty real love. Like you said, also really awful relationship with his mother, but also incredibly codependent. He was talking about thinking of moving his mother in the house before we even got married! I feel so bad for him now, but he is a grown man who can choose his actions and that's how we have to look at it.

[@emi12322]

Omg yes! I keep seeing videos of how the partner ended up cheating but this is the first comment I have seen where someone is like me. I never cheated on him and would never cheat but he was sooo obsessed with this idea and with the idea that I wanted my ex over him. It was EXHAUSTING and once time he told me “I know this is toxic but when you get upset and you’re crying and begging me to stop because it’s becoming too much for you, that’s when I feel like you love me and it kinda turns me on”….I’m glad u ran a mile because I did too! And it breaks my heart because I love him, madly…but I fear he won’t get better and whenever I would suggest couples counselling he would agree until it got to actually booking a session then all of a sudden “I don’t feel like it today” “I don’t wanna sit there whilst a stranger tells me I can’t be mad at you for this because I am mad”.

[@kyliesmith9782]

@emi12322 Much love and healing to you, sweetheart x

[@SarahSkinnyJeans]

I just went thru this same thing. Thanks for sharing. It's too much to bear. I'm going no contact finally. I'm sorry you went thru this. It's so confusing and then the truth is so twisted that it's almost like I started gaslighting myself because the truth seemed too bizarre to believe. Knowing it is true about the betrayal fantasy concept, is both a relief but also makes me angry. It's sad mostly that I let someone treat me so poorly for so long in the name of a love that never even mutually existed

[@LibbyRussell-e2p]

@@emi12322same. Never cheated, never would. My heart was to broken to even desire. Plus it’s against who I am. He did accuse me many times and spread rumors that I did. I have always believed he wanted me too… so he could be the victim. Sad broken people they are . Running from their own demons. After much healing and finding freedom and me again… I just feel bad for him and am SO glad to be free. Praying you all stay safe. This is NOT light stuff.

[@briannall6232]

This is SO Depressing. You can't ever find happiness...... I need to go cry.

[@Pandazz79]

Are you a narscissist ? i need to go cry bc I am that way its really depressing

[@shellyjakes7065]

perfect breakdown of the process. I nearly lost my mind trying to figure out what was going on with my ex.

[@MrRockfan85]

Yes me too

[@Makanalani888]

Thank you! You have saved my sanity while divorcing my ex husband. I can provide examples for so many points throughout this whole video. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Him and his mother were waiting for me to misbehave. He abused me physically and ims till disabled today, but he told the pastor while pounding his chest “I’m the victim here”! His mother wanted to use her eggs for a child when she found I was diagnosed barren. Incest in a Petri dish. And his sister would carry him and his mothers child! He always chose his mothers side. She tried a smear campaign and he supported her in it. He also said I need to learn to put her needs above my own. She wore black to our wedding, it was a funeral for her. He defends her at every turn with his whole life!

[@liberty6380]

RUN! And you found all this out after he hooked you into marriage! Holy cow 🐮 Glad you got out alive!

[@Makanalani888]

@@licmir3663thank you, it was definitely the catalyst that propelled the abuse and eventual divorce. 😢Update, he is now living with her even though there is a warrant for his arrest. 😮Not my circus! 🎉😅

[@samina7babar274]

That is one very mentally sick family you were dealing with. I am so glad you are out of thar situation

[@mariposa1933]

My mother has a betrayal fantasy with her husband. Behind the scenes she was always pushing pushing pushing. Always stalking computers, always checking phones, always accusing. Sadly…..When it finally happened and he did betray her, she did absolutely nothing. She went from pretending their whole life was so perfect to now throwing him under the bus without a care in the world, but has done absolutely nothing. Matter of fact they just bought a new home, in another state! She is miserable, constantly angry and complaining and wants everyone around her to be as miserable as she is. But she cannot be alone and controls everything with the “poor me” and is always in the ER when she throws tantrums. She won’t leave her hubby and he won’t go anywhere either as he is just as controlling. I know this all started with her parents, and it makes me sad 11 of them have suffered due to how their parents were. All the success they have, beautiful homes and families kids and education in the world has not made any of them happy people. They are sooooo miserable instead of being thankful! I’m happily married and am doing well but I have to keep a safe distance and move in silence. I’m an empath and have learned how to protect myself from the abuse. It’s very hard being the daughter of a narcissistic mother.

[@Jeng022]

Exactly on point … as always , Vaknin is part of my healing, understanding this disease and reasoning why I am studying psychiatry ❤

[@Seibellagiugiu]

I learn so much from your videos. I really do feel like I use ur conveyed knowledge to help me make better decisions in relationships with people. Not romantic, but just with everyday people.

[@scorpiolove674]

The middle age covert narcissist I knew had a pathological need to compete with grade school children for attention.

[@renee4882]

cont...while his wounds have been healed I will carry the scars for the rest of my life. I actually embrace my scars. They serve as a reminder that some people will fake it in order to get us to believe a lie then use our love against us. This experience taught me some people we loose are not a loss and that some human beings are incapable of being human.

[@mexicanbeautyqueen7988]

💯 % I went through that! Thank u for explaining what no one else can!

[@happyintoronto7759]

Can he just imagine the cheating? He blamed me several times for cheating, which I never did. His belief is so strong though, I could not convince him otherwise. He blamed me for cheating with a man that I don’t even know his name. It is absurd, I never had any eyes for anyone but him, I worshiped him like the sun! His pain was so real, he tortured himself with a baseless thought. He finally discarded me afterwards. I guess he needed to do this in order to feel disgusted so he could leave me.

[@DonnaMarie414]

My ex accused me to the kids of cheating on him, but only after he was exposed as a cheater. My current narc, I believe will accuse me of cheating in order to have a reason to dump me. I have never cheated in my life! We'll see. He LOVES playing the victim. Lie, deny and villify is his MO.

[@happyintoronto7759]

Very strange, he accused me of cheating two months after the alleged incident ( which I swear it never happened!) while we were in the living room and he was holding his son in a hug ( his son was 13 years old at that time). I was shocked and I was hurt. Mostly because he was accusing me unjustly in front of his son and he was damaging my reputation without me being able to do anything about it. So surreal. We were together for almost five years, engaged to be married. He dumped me through text two weeks afterwards and brought my clothes in garbage bags and put them at my feet at the curb. I was shattered.

[@happyintoronto7759]

Donna, I am sorry that this happened to you, too. It is painful and unfair. Big hug to you.

[@kyliesmith9782]

Yep! 100%

[@robinwilliams7118]

@@DonnaMarie414did you leave him?

[@jmashack1]

OMG this makes so much sense. You are answering all of my questions as to why the narcissistic ex boyfriend ended the relationship the way he did. Every single thing that you said, the way you explained it makes so much sense to me now. So I did not cheat however my stepson came to stay with us who I meet when he was 13 years old. We have always had a close relationship. He even gave me the title of Step Mom. So that was the other man. The one that was getting mommy's attention. So he demonized us after going through the craziness in his head of how evil we were and how we didn't love him and then he discarded us. I honestly never knew that in the relationship I had become his mother in his mind. I won't go on and on and tell my story I just want to say thank you. It is all making sense now

[@tee57449]

This betrayal fantasy sounds very complex and like a lot of work on the behalf of one person , they must be so confused and depressed. Very interesting and thank you Dr Vaknin 🌹

[@sophiechoice1304]

This is so true the Narc keeps pushing his friend another promiscuous Narc into my life, even attempted to send me to the same holiday venue. I saw through it because I listened to you LOL. The Narc had the gall to ask for feedback after every encounter; I destroyed the replacement Narc ambitions and now my old Narc states he feels lost. He is not so secretly seeking a new partner but he has burnt so many bridges he cannot return to the exes and niave young girls don't want his elderliness. I am the Mother with no inclination to play his stupid game and keeping his childish behaviour out of my head and my reactions within boundaries; there is no shared fantasy just shared roofs. In the meantime, I pray his new wife arrives soon so I can an safely leave with all my money and properties.

[@savannahm9943]

Good for you. I’ve had similar experiences where I watch from the sidelines while a narcissist tries to conduct their subconscious fantasies. It’s hilarious how they deflate when they realize you’re not playing Dollhouse Drama Club with them

[@Callendergirl6]

I am going thru this exact thing right now and he admits his mother parentified him and smothered him. We have been separated for almost one year and he just keeps becoming more and more abusive, I am finishing up the divorce this week so I can finally be free of him cause yes, he is pushing me through his constant abuse to be with another man.

[@Mizzie888]

That’s the bit, they want to force you to cheat and then Cry being the victim! I feel sick and tricked what a person to be with! I will just walk away, even if they try to stop me again from fear and anxiety!

[@RalucaDit]

Why does he put so much effort in this process of selfdistruction ( from the love bombing until the end) instead of simply accepting that his mother was bad( perhaps the mother had her own problems or reasons for abusing him in a sort of way, even by overindulging) but other women are good and love him ( he has all the proofs that she loves him), moreover when he realises that the splitting does not happen in any of his multiple relationships and he is still unhappy. with therapy could he be able to gain other compulsions, less selfdistructive and harming for others? it blows my narrow mind.

[@mrfiend]

It's not conscious and it's soul wretching when you realize 😢

[@RalucaDit]

@@mrfiend But if he knows right from wrong,and he is punnished when he does something illegal,how can we say that he is not concious when he covers his mistakes, lies,steals,cheats,future fakes,manipulates in order to get what he needs(money,sex,validation,status,) and destroying people's lives around him? It would be easyer for the victims to have closure if they were certain that the abuser is not concious.

[@mrfiend]

@@RalucaDit You're right, let me help you understand as much as I can. There's a saying "it's much more valuable to see a place behind 100 pairs of eyes than to see 100 places behind a single pair". With that in mind, when a narcissist pushes you to another man he doesn't do so because he reasons: "Oh, I want to play a game with her so that she cheats on me" nor does he EVER ask you directly to do it. It's unconscious, comes in the form of, "come meet my friend X, he's great at A,B,C, he's a mentor, etc.". Somewhere deep down we don't want you to cheat, we want you to love us as we are, in spite of the aggression, which we don't perceive as aggression by the way, we realize it only in the aftermath, long long after it's all done and dusted. As an analogy, think of dropping a glass on the floor, you don't want to of course, but you do it involuntarily. That goes hand in hand with trying to control you, and even becoming jealous of you, because in the mind of a narcissist we look for proof that you are indeed faithful, that you care ONLY about us. We introduce you to men we consider superior to invalidate them, to make them seem inferior through your choices. But we end up doing such a good job in selling this person while pushing you away, that our fear (abandonment) is re-enacted. When the abuse starts, in the narcissist mind you've already cheated, they believe it so much that they want you to confess, even if you're innocent. This is not done with mal intent, and oh god I've done it many times and realized months maybe years after and I can guarantee you it sucks and hurts like nothing else. Second, I realize my mom was sadistic, and that's the problem, I have no idea what mother love feels like, most people don't even think about it, they know. For me mother love meant to validate her grandiosity or sleep on the floor, be better than other kids so she can brag, or be severely punished. The only affection I received was traded on results, nothing was for free. It's like asking a fish to fly, or like wanting to teach them how to. You can't. I do want to believe it's possible, but 30 years of experience taught me otherwise. A good movie depicting it is "Good will hunting", rather romantic. Lastly, some advice, please move on and let it be the past. I can't think of anything more loving to share, I hope this helps

[@RalucaDit]

@@mrfiend Thank you so much for your advices and insights. Mentally i almost can accept and understand the process,but in the hart i cannot understand why he doesn't want to be loved and cherished,when he has evidence that the love is true and faithfull,and why he doesn't regret losing it and try to change his behavior in order to keep that love and not to destroy him and me in the same time, going to another target.best wishes for you,too!

[@rabinraj15]

@Mr. Fiend, You are indeed a very patient & kind person Sir... You invested your time to simplify as much as you can for the well-being of another 🙏🏽

[@susiebachez]

Sam, like you depict humans being numberless amounts of introjections. Then we need to give ourselves a break Awareness can bring out compassion. We all are damaged, traumatized to one degree or another. So we all need to know and get the fact that we are all children living in a narcissistic man-made culture. Western culture. We must remember that we are all children from an adult perspective and needs to be known

[@kerrymarshall2071]

Beyond Fascinating I'm getting the picture but need to do more digging through your excellent playlist thanks again Sam

[@presidentamanda7468]

Yes- the narcissist who I’ve been forced into partnering with bc I had nowhere to live (I said I could have a friendship but he said he wanted me as a partner) otherwise, suddenly began trying to set me up with different men to which I always rejected bc I knew it would make him upset. It felt wrong dating in front of a man who has so consistently stated his desire for me. I don’t want to push him over the edge. But he kept trying, and looking for men, telling these men I like them and how interested I am (I never said this) and trying to make it happen. Recently, we were out in public and there was a man who started talking to me and the narcissist interjected and demanded we exchange numbers. So we did. And then in the car on the way home, he told me to text the guy and I told him I didn’t want to, he kept badgering me. So I did finally. And throughout the week, he kept pushing me to text him which was stressful bc I knew this was a game he was playing. So finally I hang out with the guy and we actually developed a relationship bc he kept rooting for us, but then he’d guilt me when I came back from seeing the man. He’d tell me to have sex with him, then tell me if I did that he’d never look at me the same. Anyway, the other man ended up being really unstable so I ended it and it’s been a relief but also sad bc I am stuck in this situation and I don’t want to date with him on the periphery dictating every step, facilitating and then becoming upset. After this situation, he’s even asked me to be his mother. When I’m able to move out, I’m going to do so bc this is too much. I want my own life back, to make my own decisions.

[@beegee5305]

This is the first I have heard of this phenomenon ... the few narcs I knew didn't display this characteristic.

[@nikolfilipp3049]

The only knowledge and video could not stand to hear till the end after 4 years following all your knowledge shared. So much un healed painfulness given to me children as heritance . Please find us a solution to break this circle of trauma . To save our children!

[@karunaverma3641]

Why does he not play the same fantasy with his actual biological mother who is, still alive and choose intimate partner. If a narcissist is capable of creating a fantasy he can do the same with his actual mother in other betrayal forms not the intimate ones of course. That's a question which we don't understand. He remains absolutely good with his actual mother instead and harms or hurts other women.

[@Harlem_Renaissance]

Great question. I'd love to know that answer.

[@RalucaDit]

I often wonder about this,too. I hope someone will clarify. And also, why does he need a real person to do this, if he doesn t interact with the real person anyway, but with his ideal fantasy in his mind.

[@oOIIIMIIIOo]

As it is socially not allowed to held parents responsible, people displace it onto others.

[@RalucaDit]

@@jenniferbrower The spouse is also adult and he makes her his mother,so he is a child in that relantionship,doing whatever he wants and expecting her to be there unconditionally.

[@RalucaDit]

@@N1S4444 ok,and if he sees his mother all good,then problem solved,he has a good relationship with her or he tries to split now if he didn't manage in childhood,and cut off contact and have a normal life. If he sees her all bad,then why he doesn't just confront her and try to understand her reasons for the abuse and then cut off all contact with her and live normal afterwords?

[@SallySunshine-hs3fg]

Why does the spouse have to pay the price of the mans mom? Why don’t they put the devaluation on their own moms where the abuse first took place? It would save a lot of pain on all the spouses or partners by giving it back to the mom. Put it where it truly belongs.

[@s3nd3r]

It's psychological. The narcissist is unaware of what they're doing.

[@loganrun6010]

This is 100 percent true and I couldn’t figure out what was going on- amazing and very niche video thanks for making this- hard to understand this detail or why he would behave this way. Never experienced this with any other person. He would constantly tell me that I deserve so much better and I could have him and someone else. He’d want to know if I liked other people, he said he could help set me up with someone, he kept saying he wouldn’t care if I slept with someone else. When he cried about his exes he would cry about how she was now with her ex over him. He would say he was asexual and I couldn’t understand what was happening. Thank you

[@FirehorseG]

Strange. My partner has had all his exes cheat on him. His ex wife got pregnant with another man's child in their marriage. I've always felt he was a covert narc. This is added info.

[@sweetpea17]

Omg. The man I was with for 3 yrs and that I believe has NPD had said that was his fantasy. I'm just stunned at this revelation. I was very confused when he told me that, now I know why.

[@gorunsko31]

🏃🏽‍♀️ run

[@lovin.lisa101]

So how does the narcissist see you if you refuse to participate in betrayal fantasy? Instead you break up and go no contact.

[@samvaknin]

Search this channel.

[@alekari08]

One of my ex narcissist boyfriend used to create arguments out of nothing and I knew somehow that he wanted me to get angry at him so that he could feel he was a victim and get away from me. As I knew this I never paid attention to his attempts to fight and this made him very anxious and uncomfortable. After some time he told me "you will never be like my mother". I didn't know that day was going to be the last day I ever see him again. Since then I always wondered why he said I would never be like his mother. Why he was comparing me to his mother when I was his gf. I thought I was his gf but maybe I wasn't for him. He was just looking for a mom and I refused to be so he became angry and I never saw him again. Actually I had more narcissist boyfriends and they all did the same, I refused to be their moms so they just left me.

[@morehermed8460]

Your video is eye opening and life saving subject

[@LadiesOfThePleiades]

Onto much more important things!!! Getting good and 🤬 trashed. Almost wish I had a mainline of wine to deal with this totally ridiculous BS.

[@carolinejane5469]

this is exactly what I went through with my ex partner, this is the most real video I have watched yet and trust me I have watched a LOT ..I needed to hear this, thank you for sharing, I can now try and make more sense of what happened to me , although one question I have is that he wanted me to do it with several other partners, yet still didn't completely detach until I had the courage to walk away ?

[@oilselevated4808]

My husband of 32 years told us about his transactionship with his side trash, and of course as soon as the secret got out, that crumbled and he came back for me to take care of him during the last 4 months of his life. He passed 9 months ago and the whole experience is still painful. I consider myself lucky as I had some closure, he tried to make amends and I finally have peace in my life

[@RalucaDit]

I am glad that he gave you a kind of closure and peace at the end,even though he probably came back out of fear and for you to comfort him(as a mother?).I wish you all the best.

[@oilselevated4808]

@@Ib90 he definitely deserved that, but I have 2 kids and I’m glad they saw what I did for him and now my conscience is clear

[@oilselevated4808]

@@hallofmirrorsnetwork thanks for the evaluation, my children are independent adults and I had left my husband a few years ago

[@mr.cardinal9182]

I cannot connect anything in my experience with this one... thank God.

[@elodiedupont9672]

Wow Superb video. One of your best video ever. Thanks so much for sharing on such an intimate subject regarding also the last events... Thanks again

[@oOIIIMIIIOo]

This sounds to me, that the borderline disorder ist the twilight zone between narcissism and normal. They do that, too.

[@kimtaff1932]

Wow! this is mind blowing! what if this narcissist is in therapy? What role does the therapist play in the drama? Is there any way to help someone embedded into this fantasy?

[@LJ-218]

It’s all sick and I was in this bs

[@this_is_pyxi]

Prof. Vaknin. Could you please elaborate more on the subject of narcissist thinking of his biological mother as a GOD figure too? She is a saint. She is him. He cannot separate from her...

[@Sharona555]

My ex-husband never separated from his mother. After 25 years of marriage to him, I became interested in another male and my ex didn’t view him as a threat, and did nothing to save the marriage. Unfortunately, I experienced limerence with this other man and my behavior had changed drastically. The extent of my ex’s involvement was by telling me to stay away from him, which didn’t work. My ex held to the belief that as long as sex wasn’t involved, then it would pass. About three years later, I wanted to divorce and my ex did nothing but watch it all burn to the ground. Now I’m much happier without both of them, but I always wondered why he never fought for me. I never considered my ex to be NPD, but was very controlling. The other man was definitely NPD, especially in manipulation and victim mentality. This has shed some light on a puzzle piece that was missing for a long time. Thank you!

[@cm50502]

When this happens to me I feel like it's a loyalty test from a "good child" issue.

[@DonnaMarie414]

What other forms of betrayal would he push for if the spouse would never cheat?

[@missybiehl8740]

This is nauseating

[@merineyit]

It all sounds so sad and self-defeating.

[@ssgdean1969]

My ex girlfriend followed this pattern with a few variations. She didn't set me up to cheat but there was definitely signs of her pulling away and shutting down so I would find someone else. This makes so much sense as to how she thinks because I know she grew up in a family that devalued her at every opportunity. I hate it for her and won't be angry at her anymore because I do see she is just very damaged but at the same time I've moved on with my life because you can't save someone. Only she can save herself.

[@sasuke7424]

Wonderful session, thank you . Any video coming or information on how to get rid of introject inconsistency sir ?

[@monabansal4979]

Mr. Dr. Sam, your video is so deep and meaningful I meet 5 peoples in my like this when I was understan that somethings is not right what if you good with tham don’t cheat than after what they think about people🙏🏻

[@loraineinspahr8395]

So cliché it's unbelievably true!

[@creativesolutionstoart]

This is extremely fascinating! Because this is exactly what I went through with my ex and it was strange because he needed to fulfill this narrative that I had cheated on him. I am not the cheating type, yet as I was leaving the relationship with him, I started to see an old boyfriend and stopped sleeping with a narcissist. yes there was some overlap, but I never tried to maintain both relationships so in my mind I was not cheating. I did leave the relationship with a narcissist, and five years later he pushed his way back into my life and one night interrogated me about the cheating until he was satisfied with what he thought was an admission of guilt. I always thought this was extremely weird and that it was like he “needed“ me to cheat on him. what you were saying makes so much sense that I can’t even believe it. it was the only time in my life I had ever done anything like that, and even so it wasn’t a classic cheating scenario. he was a somatic narcissist, with antisocial traits.… He used to really scare me sometimes. we did have a child together, and I’m always worried for my kid when he is with him.

[@limitlesky]

Why didn't you break up before deciding to see your ex boyfriend? It seems like you're trying to rationalize to yourself why it was not cheating. What you did sounds like an exit affair.

[@creativesolutionstoart]

@@limitlesky yes. It was absolutely an exit affair. and yes, I did break up with him but lived under the same roof until I was able to leave. Hence the not sleeping with him part. Once you’re not in any more dynamics with a narcissist, you don’t corrupt or contaminate your own morals anymore. Which is what you end up doing when you stay with them or even live in the same house.… doesn’t change the fact that he wanted or needed it to happen. That is the subject of this video, betrayal fantasy.

[@michellehrynyk7]

at 44:15 you mentioned the non-reality dream state of the partner, that shared fantasy, I see that and recognize that in myself. It's like I lose myself and don't know how to get it back. I can feel something wrong, I can try calling things straight and then I wonder what is wrong with myself. Zombie - like is exactly right. It feels like I'm in some kind of dissociative state I have no control on and cannot escape from. Has this phenomenon been addressed in any of your other videos? If not would you be willing to address this?

[@karenalford4025]

Very clear thank you! I’m curious what happens in your opinion to the family dynamics and object relations when the couple have children together?

[@samvaknin]

Search this channel.

[@zanetabulwicka2037]

What about if partner doesn't cheat?

[@mollycuddy9747]

Thank you, Dr Vaknin, this video helped me to understand that a) my marriage was doomed from the start and that b) that my ex didn’t actually have a cuckold fetish, but a betrayal fantasy. No wonder I cuckolded him *wrong* in his opinion. Of course, nothing I could do was right, so doing that wrong as a desperate attempt to please him was going to backfire. I sent this video to my psychotherapist. Fascinating. The more I know, the more easily I heal. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[@laurenlowenstein4937]

OMG. Now I understand why he asked me for nine years if I’ve ever been betrayed before. I have actually gone cold inside because just as I thought I had kind of figured a lot of behaviour around him and the constant daily infidelity accusations, there’s just more that circulates in their sick heads

[@cynergy526]

@@ceasarwright7567 going on six now

[@pipopipo6477]

Just found your channel and I really like your content! Did you ever considered to do a Q&A video? I'm pretty sure such a video would do great with your audience...

[@a.mom4life]

The ex husband is all of this, except I never cheated.

[@maryparker1479]

How does the narcissist feel if the woman refuses? Im in this, i refuse.

[@DonnaMarie414]

What happens to the narcissist if this process is interrupted by the death of the intimate partner?

[@wcbibb]

"I want my mommy to betray me again, so I push my partner to cheat on me," says the narcissist. Yep. I've seen a narcissist do exactly that, then abuse the "ex-girlfriend" for being "unfaithful." The separation was permanent. The pattern was repeated to "fix" his relationship with his momma. The narcissist became an Incel. Repetition compulsion: dejà vue all over again.😂

[@glendaprideaux8642]

Another enlightening video. Thank you. In the case of a female narcissist, is it always the maternal separation being sought or can it be a paternal separation?

[@samvaknin]

Maternal.

[@c.r.nunamaker675]

Is this fantasy played out consciously or unconsciously? And why does acting it out to completion not prevent the narcissist from replaying the same chain of events with a different person? I.e., why is the fantasy played out potentially multiple times, and not just once? I appreciate your videos, which have helped me immensely in not getting drawn into a relationship with a narcissist. Knowledge is power. Thank you for sharing yours.

[@thewallflower7483]

Omggggg this is so interesting

[@s_b123]

Sam, can the narcissist make it all in his mind and keep accusing the partner of cheating even if the partner doesn't cheat to create this drama to convince himself the partner is bad?

[@samvaknin]

Yes.

[@Ellie-rp8bh]

I spent 36 years, walked away 5 years ago and NO CONTACT 5 years. I have watched 20,000 videos since Nov 2016! My x husband is the narc, I stay at home mom to 3 boy’s one being special needs! The x was never there for them I was always there… never left them literally! I don’t understand why you say the kids did not get what they need from mother when young? It’s their dad that was never there for them! When you speak of this can the problem come from father instead of mother?

[@nelsonferreira-aulasdearte]

Sam explains in other videos that fathers are pretty much irrelevant during the earliest years of a child. Fathers only become important a bit later on the child's life. So these problems do arise from a broken relationship with mum.

[@denisau3646]

The brokness comes from the child feeling the mother is not there. She may be physically there, but she may be ill or adicted or consumed with the troubled relationship with the partner or absorbed in work or friends or phone. Kids are reacting to the psychological absence. Sometimes one kid being ill / much younger, attracts more attention from the mother and the others are not feeling seen.

[@sandramostad9922]

I wonder... If the narcissist seeks this betrayal and separation, because it feels safe for him, that he is not seeking to separate from his mother, he wants to reconsile with her. but the only way he knows how to reconnect with his mother is through the pain of betrayal and separation. its the only way he knows his mother ...his mother feels near, as long as there is pain ?

[@samvaknin]

Watch my videos about the shared fantasy.

[@gracebaffoe-l1s]

How do I destroy the shared fantasy? It’s been 2 years and I still cannot move on.

[@samvaknin]

By watching my videos on separation and individuation.

[@yournotthatimportant1032]

I never cheated on mine but in his mind he thinks I did. I discarded him for my sanity. He has demonized me with fantastical stories to.people. yet he messaged me after 10 months nc and removed the fb message

[@mariaclara_assuncao]

Professor, what happens if the maternal figure refuses to cheat and ends the shared fantasy, what happens?

[@samvaknin]

Search the channel for “first”.

[@DoHisProphetsNoHarm]

Thank you again!

[@stephanieelizabethkopecky565]

Is there any therapy that can help the narcissist heal his mother wounds?

[@TheUfm123]

I was the narcissist in this case . It’s so weird becouse I have internal introject of mother leaving so never thought I was doing anything wrong . But this was abandoning my parter and when I cheated if that is even considered becouse the relationship now I’m seeing it was mother and teen child so I started dating other girls while married and I’ll go back think everything is ok I’m here like mother introject would do with me . All screwed up . I done a lot of work and my excite and me are great friends i have clarity on the set up . This man is a god 🎉

[@RalucaDit]

Hello,could you please expain why you don't confront your mother and get revenge on her or make the splitting real? Thank you

[@M3Diz]

I really want to know how to hurt a Narcisist... Well, hugs from Brazil!!!

[@Alice-sw9hf]

Go no contact, it hurts them more than anything.

[@elleb.5323]

Besides your narc partner pushing you to cheat .. never happened to me. How does him cheating - make a theatre play betrayal script. His goal is to hurt you and leave you ? Isn’t it suppose to be opposite. You hurt him and he acts like the victim ? Besides cheating - what are other forms of betrayal and how does the narc cheating help him separate from the mother wound ?

[@pariarjb2329]

So true. So true

[@margaritanieves2108]

SAM After 8 years he hoover me, said if you would had somebody I would or will burn the house down .is this statement reason he said this? Ive been Completely no contact including his dysfunctional family. And I have install security system with cameras we were never legally married although the relashionship last 12 years we had no children the house solely under my name. I believe his mother narcosist and possible sexually abuse him the emmeshment between the two is I cant even use words to describe it.

[@djulimurti8238]

You always say, it's the mothers fault. But what about the father? Let's say, a father who in early child hood shows no attachment or interest in his child , who treats his child, like it wouldn't exist - that's a traumatic experience for a child isn't it?

[@samvaknin]

Do your homework and search the channel.

[@slybugz]

Does this happen with friends aswell

[@MrRockfan85]

Hello Prof. Vaknin. I have a question if it is possible. Im about 99% sure my Ex-girlfriend is a narcissist but when i „cheatet“ on her After we Break up wich is Not considering „cheating“ she wanted me to take her back so Bad…. After a while she came with phantasies about annother Woman in our intimacy which was „cracy“ for me. And of course she wanted to choose the Woman. I agreed After a lot of „Brain wash“ because i don’t wanted but in the very last moment i Said no. So what happend in the very Same Night she cheated on me. Does that make sense? To fullify the seperation Fantasy right?? Very confussing Edit: i have also to say that i was/been also in a kind of Dream State, my Ex-Girlfriend is from Brasil, and my biggest Dream was to live also in Brasil and i think because of that i acceptet a LOT of bullshit, fighting physical and mental violence that i had never experienced before and would never have accepted

[@kouskouskouskous9284]

How likely a covert narcissist female will hoover after puting a restraint order following reactive abuse?

[@cm50502]

How many times would they do this before they've individuated?

[@samvaknin]

They never individuate.

[@mahahabib3142]

I think at the root of alll this is just an addict chasing emotional highs. Up and down both feel good. Spirituality enlightenment lies in between the highs and lows of emotions and its boring there. Not really but thats how mind might perceive peace.The story the narrative does not matter really. Its a drug addict. I guess whats interesting is how across time all narcissists are chasing the same highs and lows and weaving the same narrative.

[@TheBrighterSpider]

My mother kept accusing my dad of cheating, which is absurd to anybody who knows him. When no actual cheating was forthcoming, she went into full blown “betrayal” mode when she found porno gifs somebody spammed his email group with. The emails were unopened, but apparently simply failing to realize the content of an unopened email, delete it and leave his alumni group of old friends, constitutes cheating on her and she will never trust him again.

[@rp3741]

I don't understand why there's so much shame with the mother and inability to separate from the mother. Is it something that mothers are doing?

[@samvaknin]

I don't understand why you do not search the channel.

[@pasnouop]

informative. But can someone explain why a narcissist is revered to as a him? Woman can have NPD too right?

[@samvaknin]

Right.

[@pipjacjjones]

I’m cooked Sam.

[@shellae1922]

Scary

[@uweellinghausen2993]

Does the male partner also become a mother figure in the mind of a narcissist?

[@samvaknin]

Yes.

[@uweellinghausen2993]

Thanks, Prof Vaknin

[@apkrishnadas]

Does the female narcissist have the same mother fantasy or is it more a father fantasy with them?

[@samvaknin]

watch the shared fantasy playlist. There are no psychological differences between female and male narcissists.

[@hunglikeaslave6793]

He just gave all the women in here an excuse to finally cheat. “It wasn’t me! A narcissist made me do it!” Lol

[@namelessbrat7197]

Of course not. Someone "made me" do this is narc bs. Nobody can make a person do anything if they don't want to. But narcs like to believe/use that to feel "blameless" and helpless against the influence of the big bad world. So if anybody uses that as an excuse, you know they're narcs. It is well known that narcissistic abuse on people with weak morals/values causes them to either crumble completely or turn narcisstic themselves. (ie gather narcissistic traits) So the cheating man or woman has simply allowed themselves to become scum.

[@govandahmed1846]

what happen after seperation

[@ivana5240]

Cheers! 😆

[@rachelfaller7527]

Sorry really trying to understand but don't.....why do they have this mortal fear of abandonment if they play this betrayal fantasy with partners? Doesn't make sense

[@samvaknin]

Listen again.

[@Stefalef]

Here is an example that is not about sex, for anyone who might see it and need it. (Condensing as much as possible) Malignant narc partner tells me off and on for 2 YEARS I can sell a shared asset of value (tractor). Finally the time comes, it's not needed anymore, we are separated, he's not paying child support. He CHOOSES who I should sell the asset to, and we agree on selling it from the location it's in. I make the arrangements, good to go. At the last minute (again, after 2 YEARS of discussion), he decides to set conditions. There were 4 conditions, two were absurd. - One was "be nice through the duration of the sale". If you have a narc in your life, you know the notion of what is "nice" is not a tenable legal agreement. The other absurd one was that he needed to be informed of every aspect of my financial life, despite us living entirely separate lives by this point and him not paying child support. So, I went ahead and did it. What ensued was a police report, then another police report, and threats because I stole from him and was going to end up in prison with our children destitute. Nothing happened. The police were given the evidence, moved on. But still a couple years later it's why I'm a terrible person that ruined his life. A criminal.

[@sandramostad9922]

Is it possible for a narcissist to recover and get treatment/healing/therapy? How can that happen?

[@samvaknin]

Watch the therapies playlist.

[@sandramostad9922]

thank you for answers, a n d your vast knowledge ! it is really interesting and helpful in regard to understand the disease...